Wednesday, June 21, 2006

Mind over Mind



Eden is burning; either brace yourself for elmination,
or else your heart must have the courage
for the changing of the guards - Bob Dylan


Maybe I've been reading too many comic books, or maybe too many books that should be comic books. Or perhaps a lot of non-fiction that describes a world most people presume to be fantasy. But I've been thinking lately how it can't be enough to know enough to recognize how strange and perilous our circumstances are, and how wicked the rulers of this age. Because if that's all we're about then it will be first they came for the communists-time all over again. Though possibly with the added insult that they won't even be bothered to come for us, because so long as we don't progress beyond analysis and diagnosis to treatment, then our virtual world has no congruity with theirs, and we're nothing but paperless tigers.

"To fight the Empire is to be infected by its derangement." Philip K Dick wrote that in 1978, when it was easy to give up the fight because it appeared already won before it was truly engaged. Americans saw a modest President who wore sweaters in the Oval Office, and who asked small, sensible things of them, such as consumption in moderation. (What they weren't allowed to see was his National Security Advisor "stirring up Muslims" in Central Asia.) And for what it's worth, and it must be something, in every year since there's been a Bush in the White House either by fact or by proxy. And the manifestations of seemingly intractable Empire are promoting in its demoralized opposition a paralytic state of apprehended madness.

So, if we mean to do something, how can we avoid Dick's paradox? How can we safeguard ourselves and whatever victories we may win from the viral derangement of Empire? But before we can answer that, perhaps we need to learn of what we're capable. Because the Empire knows, and would rather that we didn't.

A few weeks ago on the RI board, "slimmouse" introduced me to the story of Mirin Dajo, the "inviolable man," whose performances were banned when the sight of his assistant running fencing foils through his body induced a heart attack in an audience member.

Tony Crisp writes that, in 1947,

A Swiss doctor, Hans Naegeli-Osjord, hearing of Dajo's alleged wild talent, induced him to allow scientific investigation of what happened when he was pierced. In the Zurich Cantonal hospital many people, including doctor Naegeli-Osjord, doctor Werner Brunner, the chief of surgery at the hospital, and a number of other doctors, students, and journalist observed and reported on the experiment. In front of them Dajo stripped to the waist and after spending some time in meditation, had his assistant once more plunge the steel through him. This should have damaged vital organs, but there was no apparent harm, although the witnesses were shocked. Dajo was then asked to allow an x-ray to be taken with the rapier still in place. He agreed, walked to the x ray theatre with the foil still in place. The result of the x-ray undeniably showed Dajo was pierced through vital organs. At a later date Dajo was again examined by scientists in Basel, and this time allowed the doctors themselves to pierce him. Each time there was no apparent harm.



Jack Schwartz was a Nazi concentration camp survivor "who for years had to train himself to endure severe torture and pain." After liberation he "repeatedly astonished dozens of physicians by sticking mammoth six-inch sail-maker's needles through his arms without injury or bleeding."

More on Schwartz:

Below, Jack Schwartz painlessly - smiling - thrusts a large darning needle through his biceps repeatedly on request for the lab researchers. He was able to stop and start bleeding at will, control his heart rate (stop his pulse), hold lit cigarettes to his arm with no pain, or permanent skin damage. The cigarrette burns ranged from simple red marks to blisters on different occassions. With 72 hours all trace of burns dissappeared. Although he had been doing these kinds of demonstrations for years, the reserachers remarked that "The skin on Jack's arm is as smooth as a baby's." All of his puncture "wounds" closed immediately, and were completely healed and completely invisible between 24 and 48 hours.



Michael Talbot, in The Holographic Universe, uses examples of multiple personality disorder to demonstrate how consciousness, even when fragmented within the same individual, creates its own physical states. Medical conditions possessed by one alter may not be shared by another. Dr Bennett Braun of Chicago documented a case in which all but one of a patient's subpersonalities were allergic to orange juice: "If the man drank orange juice when one of his allergic personalities was in control, he would break out in a terrible rash. But if he switched to his nonallergic personality, the rash would instantly start to fade and he could drink orange juice freely." Psychiatrist Francine Howland had a dissociative patient arrive for an appointment with an eye completely swollen shut from a wasp sting. She immediately booked him an appointment with an opthamologist, but in the meantime, as he was in severe pain, and since one of his alters was an "anesthetic personality" who felt no pain, she had the anesthetic alter become dominant. The pain stopped immediately, and the swelling was gone by the time the opthamologist could examine him an hour later, who saw no need for treatment and sent him home. The following day, after the anesthetic personality had relinquished control, the swelling and pain returned, and he again visited the opthamologist, who later called Howland for an explanation. "He thought time was playing tricks on him," she said. "He just wanted to make sure that I had actually called him the day before and he had not imagined it."

Trauma inducing altered states of consciousness, and dissociative personalities exhibiting compartmentalized functionality even on the biological level - where have we seen this before? The Empire's mind control work has always been about more than zombie creation. It's been about activating dormant, and heightened, human capacities in its service. The "Monarch" subjects were not treated like royalty, but like butterflies: emergent creatures with novel powers, who were told to be proud of their status and their new flesh.

For example, survivor Kathleen Sullivan describes "Theta" programming as "thought energy":

I just knew it as magnetic-type energy from the individual to do a number of different things that they were experimenting with, including long-distance mind connection with other people - even in other countries. I guess you would call it "remote viewing" - where I could see what a person was doing in another state in a room or something like that. It was both actual programming and experimentation. Because what they did - they kept it encapsulated in several parts of me, several altered states. It was a lot of training, a lot of experimentation.

Sullivan notes that this level of programming went beyond remote viewing, to projecting mental energy in attempts to kill others at a distance. Fort Bragg's "goat lab" was also training ground for psychic killers, according to Jon Ronson's The Men Who Stare at Goats. At least one Green Beret, Michael Echanis, is said to have had success, though former psychic spy Glenn Wheaton told Ronson that Echanis's own heart suffered sympathetic damage. "Everything goes with a cost, see?" said Wheeler. "You pay the piper."

And so we're back to Dick's paradox. The Empire is mad, and we don't want to share in its madness and recreate its enslavements in our opposition to it. But it's made our consciousness part of its dominion, and it exploits our ignorance of ourselves and our power to maintain us in a state of false weakness. We shouldn't want to stop hearts with a burst of psychic energy - that's what they're about - but we should know that, however unlikely, it's possible that we could. And then we should try to do something better.

123 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Brilliant post, Jeff.

"We shouldn't want to stop hearts with a burst of psychic energy - that's what they're about - but we should know that, however unlikely, it's possible that we could. And then we should try to do something better."

'Better' being the comparative form of "Good."

And good is where it is at, and to the good is where we must go.

You are finally, finally on the right track.

Thank you.

6/21/2006 06:37:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I disagree - if the survivors of U.S. massacres on Iraqi civilians could make certain people's hearts stop at a distance, there'd be a lot of unexplained deaths of officials to report in the news. There aren't any such reports! Although, if I'd be a 12 year old Iraqi girl whose mother just got blown to pieces in front of her eyes, I'm certain I'd try the trick with all my might nevertheless.

6/21/2006 06:44:00 AM  
Anonymous Pollo said...

In a beautiful piece of synchronicity this weeks Escape Pod short story ("Shadowboxer" by Paul Di Filippo) is about exactly this sort of thing. It's excellent - you can download an mp3 of it being read here

6/21/2006 06:58:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear 6:44 Anon,

Yes, but you would fail in your attempt.

Ergo, another path must be trod, another method employed.

Evil cannot overcome evil, it only begets more of the same, as in:

Two wrongs don't make a right.

The ends do not justify the means.

6/21/2006 07:06:00 AM  
Blogger Sounder said...

When I look at the world and try to analyze its condition, I have the feeling that a certain debilitating assumption is shared across ideological lines. This is the assumption that being precedes consciousness, leading to ‘the end justifies the means’. Poison.

Thank-you Jeff for reminding folk, in a most literary way, that consciousness does indeed precede being.

6/21/2006 07:34:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

While its not quite relevant to para-government brainwashing/programming, a lot of this pain suppression (mind over matter, if you will) seems quite similar to Qi/Chi practices in Tai Chi Chuan and other Martial Arts programs. Interesting too that the definition of chi/qi seems to be "life force" or "spiritual energy" occuring in all things that exist.

6/21/2006 09:17:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

From "The Lazy Man's Guide to Enlightenment"

"The seduction of evil is precisely in that it involves us in trying to eliminate it.

When your consciousness is open, any action you take in reference to evil has no more significance than digging a ditch to channel floodwaters away from a house.......But there is no moral judgment in our involvement with evil. If you refuse to admit that auto-mobiles exist, you're going to get hit by cars, not because you are sinful or neurotic, but just because you are not looking at automobiles. You won't see them coming."

The whole books is available here:
http://freespace.virgin.net/sarah.peter.nelson/lazyman/lazyman.html#contents

6/21/2006 10:32:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=AJ7uFA8RwpQ&search=Vendetta%20911

6/21/2006 11:03:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Let's see...thinking can manipulate external reality. Is this what is meant by prayer?

Just a thought.

6/21/2006 11:12:00 AM  
Anonymous tmb said...

I have to say, again, that this is in my opinion the best site on the internet - - I have to search it down everyday, the range of topics and insight is breathtaking.

I could not believe you mentioned Michael Echanis today. I have had an interest in hand to hand combat my entire life for whatever the reason (past life?). During and after leaving the Army with an injury I stumbled upon the history of Michael Echanis which is more than fascinating. He seems to have been some type of reincarnated yoga master only on the dark side - - consumed with killing and techniques bearing thereon. He studied with a Korean Master in Hwarang Do I believe it was, was an instructor for UDT/SEAL and specialized in knife fighting and "sentry removal" - - overcoming at a psychic level the ability of others to sense you sneaking up on them before you could reach them to cut their throat with a knife.

He was the "real deal" as they say and could control his body to the extent that he could have military vehicles run him over without injury and could, like your examples, be pierced and control bleeding etc. He had some interesting symbols burned/tatooed into his inner forearms ala Kung Fu before that show ever existed . . . Some who knew him considered him to be a psychopath but it was clear that he was fearless and he was universally feared.

My understanding is that post-Viet Nam as a "soldier of fortune" connected with the CIA he went down to Nicaragua during the revolution and ended up on the side of a General (not Somoza although to support Somoza was why the CIA originally sent him down there), who had some of his same characteristics, who had decided to make a run at it as to power post Somoza. I understand that during an ambush in the jungle down there by men with machine guns, Echanis with knives only, along with the General, killed all those with automatic weapons - - no small feat if you have ever been around machine guns . . . Supposedly, the CIA warned Echanis that they did not support his friend the General's move for power and Echanis blew the CIA off. The case officers and higher ups in DC (Bush Sr. and friends?) then determined they needed to kill him but could find no takers in their stable of professional murderers as these folks all knew that if they missed they were dead regardless of where in the world they might try and hide - - Echanis was that feared.

The story goes that the CIA finally convinced one of their best murderers/bombmakers (one of those guys who arrange for airplanes to tragically crash with foreign leaders under "mysterious circumstances")to come out of retirement to rig an altitude bomb (so if it didn't work no one would know and if it did there was no way Echanis would live v. trying to kill him on the ground which was basically impossible and might result in some of those giving the orders in Norte America looking over their shoulders for a long while) and as a result of this retired guys "genius" both Echanis and the General were removed from the picture during a flight that triggered the well concealed explosive device.

Having studied all this for years (what you cover today and generally cover in this blog) my take is this, human potential is limitless but generally wasted. The texts of ancient India point the true way (although it is touched on elsewhere) and yogic (in the true sense of the word not just asana) practices are the way to human freedom now and upon death. Karma is a fact, both collective and individual, which is why there will be great suffering in the USA in the near future - - the country has it coming for what has been done in its name for the last sixty or so years, you don't have to be psychic to see it coming, they are telegraphing it.

Although it seems that such incredibly evil people as Cheney, Rumsfeld, Bush Jr., and Bush Sr. (probably one of the greatest mass murderers in history- no?) have received a free pass, just the opposite is true. For one lifetime they enjoy great power and physical pleasures, but the downside will be the many lifetimes of great suffering they spend on the flipside as a result - - in their materialistic (or pseudo christian/satanic whatever world view) they don't see this, but reincarnation is a fact as is karma - - Echanis' life reflects this fully as did the powers he had - - mental and otherwise, just harnessed for purposes that were highly negative. Again, Jeff this is a great site. Thank you.

6/21/2006 11:23:00 AM  
Anonymous starroute said...

Which is why morality, freedom from greed and fear, and varying degrees of asceticism are built into all religions. It's not because moral behavior is "nicer" or because "god" wants things that way. It's because what the Sufis call "polishing your mirror" is essential if you want to operate at a higher level without being corrupted or blowing out your circuits.

There is a Shakespearean sonnet -- which I can't say I've ever fully understood, but which echoes themes of Renaissance occultism and seems to relate to these matters -- that may bear quoting here:

They that have power to hurt and will do none,
That do not do the thing they most do show,
Who, moving others, are themselves as stone,
Unmoved, cold, and to temptation slow,

They rightly do inherit heaven's graces
And husband nature's riches from expense;
They are the lords and owners of their faces,
Others but stewards of their excellence.

The summer's flower is to the summer sweet,
Though to itself it only live and die,
But if that flower with base infection meet,
The basest weed outbraves his dignity:

For sweetest things turn sourest by their deeds;
Lilies that fester smell far worse than weeds.

6/21/2006 11:32:00 AM  
Anonymous starroute said...

Fascinating. I started my previous post before tmb's went up -- but now mine not only reads like a direct response to that one but is greatly illuminated by it. But I shouldn't be surprised -- it's part of the virtue of Jeff's blog at its best to get all the responders to resonate with one another.

On another note, it occurs to me that the proper answer to Phil Dick's problem is that you *don't* fight the Empire -- instead, you treat it as damage and route around it.

Easier said than done, however.

6/21/2006 12:05:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I Ching Hexagram #43 Resoluteness/Breakthrough

"In a resolute struggle of the good against evil , there are, however, definite rules that must not be disregarded, if it is to succeed. FIRST, resolution must be based on a union of strength and friendliness. SECOND, a compromise with evil is not possible; evil must under all circumstances be openly discredited. Nor must our own passions and shortcomings be glossed over. THIRD, the struggle must not be carried on directly by force. If evil is branded, it thinks of weapons, and if we do it the favor of fighting against it blow for blow, we lose in the end because thus we ourselves get entangled in hatred and passion.............FINALLY, the best way to fight evil is to make progress in the good."

From the Wilhelm/Baynes translation page 166-167.

Jeff. I think you've got most of these bases covered. Thank you as always for all that you give.

6/21/2006 12:16:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"How can we safeguard ourselves and whatever victories we may win from the viral derangement of Empire"

...she can keep you safe from anyone and anything

http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/2005/12/spirit-of-beehive_04.html

Most everyone who claims to follow her son have sold out, but if you do step into the Empire (knowingly or unknowingly) take her with you because she can't be touched:

http://www.ewtn.com/art/news/2005/katrina/virgin_destroyed_home.jpg

Lk 18:8

6/21/2006 12:20:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How synchronous! I went to see "The Secret" http://whatisthesecret.tv/revealed/ which to me appears to be the "follow-up/how-to" video sequel to "What the Bleep Do We Know". The video places more emphasis on how to be wealthy and successful than I would like, but is excellent in showing the steps of manifestation for each individual. I highly recommend it. I have been in some frustration and despair about what to do with/in the current times and for me it was the answer to a prayer. Thank you so much Jeff, for bringing so many people into the arena of consciousness. Cheers, Connut

6/21/2006 12:53:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

my head's spinning...(not literally)

6/21/2006 01:10:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The Secret" is a new age piece of trash. It reeks of Scientology.

"put your order into the universe" my ass. Anyone who does such a thing for material gain (or any personal gain) better get ready to go downstairs.

Here's "The Secret" to life:
http://www.cmri.org/thirdsecret.html and you'll NEVER see a glitzy video telling you why it's been surpressed.

6/21/2006 01:39:00 PM  
Anonymous luposapien said...

Ahhh... Chickens and Eggs, Consciousness and being...

Maybe it's just that I tend to think in cycles, but I suspect it may be a mistake to attempt to isolate a first-cause. I've come to see things much more in the light of "The answer is the question is the answer" or "Consciousness precedes/is Being precedes/is Consciousness". When you get down to it, I suppose it's just another way of expressing the old All is One concept.

And in keeping with that wholistic mindset, I also have problems with the idea of reincarnation, at least in it's popular form of multiple, serial lives, where someone/thing was someone/thing else 'before' which has led to what they are 'now'. I guess to me it's more that we're all just filters for the larger consciousness. This is not to say that we don't have the ability to tap into the higher-self, or even into other individual consciousnesses from the past, present or future. It's not that we weren't that person or thing, but it's incomplete. We are ALL of those people and things, though the 'Karma' of our imediate incarnation may enable or restrict us in the particular windows onto reality we're able to access.

As usual, I think that said too much, and not enough, but words are funny like that...

6/21/2006 01:42:00 PM  
Anonymous Shrubageddon said...

Now we're talking. The 10 must become unified in our effort without precluding positive and perpetuitous individual, and collective transformation.

Whistler beckons us.

As you can tell, I'm not so misanthropic today, and I thank Jeff's posting in the direction of my bombastic shoves for the reversal.

The snakes in my head were particularly penetrable yesterday. I liken it to Harry's scar burning with pain when Voldermort is near. I don't shun those dark days....they only serve to strengthen my resolve, keep me honest, and intimately aware of the challenge that lays ahead.

Sounder,

Thanks for having the intellect to peer behind my dark satire and glimpse the obscured message.

The 10:80:10 came from Serpico. It's a simplified notion, but it fits quite nicely.

6/21/2006 02:07:00 PM  
Anonymous dogananda said...

As with any project we embark upon, it is useful to first examine our intentions. A teacher I know and respect, suggests that instead of asking, "Who am I?" we reframe it as , "Who am I kidding?" The ego, in it's fear and anxiety or it's inflated state of arrogance will always be wanting something to prop it up, make it feel real when in reality it's not.
Yes, we do have access to gifts and powers beyond our wildest imagination. It's how we choose to use them that will set the course of our karma.
Meta or Loving Kindness meditation is asking that our thoughts and deeds be for the benefit of all beings everywhere. I find that holding that as an intention acts as a compass and keeps me moving in the right direction even if that direction might take me into some very challenging and difficult places.

Ultimately, it's all inside of us, the angels the demons, and at the core, the One, the source, unborn and unchanged.

Arjuna and Krishna on the battlefield, Christ on the cross, Buddha being tempted by Mara on the eve of his enlightenment and Dylan getting booed off stage for going electric...we are all in this fight for the long haul. Keep singing for heavens sake!

6/21/2006 02:12:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

With all due respect, one should not equate Christ on the Cross with Budda, or Hindu gods etc.

There are many good qualities in these religions, however there is only One truth.

Regarding Angels and Demons or positive/negative...whichever semantics you prefer - they are not all in us. We can choose to let them in just we choose to cast them out. Do you want "the demon" or do you want "the angel." Free will.

6/21/2006 02:50:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey smilie - this is for you. I love you.

MD

http://images.google.com/images?q=%22stormy+eyes%22&svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&start=0&sa=N

6/21/2006 03:13:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If I may, I'll elucidate on Dick's paradox:

"Fighting" the Empire connotes physical action on the level of the Empire's physical coercion.

But if you assasinate leaders, they are only replaced by more leaders as the Empire is designed to perpetuate itself.

Hence, if outsiders defeat the leaders, they must move in to fill the power vacuum left over, to prevent the lieutenants of the defeated leaders from taking over.

This happenned to the barbarians who overthrew the Roman Empire; they became the Romans, albeit a more confused version of them. It happenned to the Church as well; an empire in it's own right.

A repeated maxim in the Invisibles is "As Above, So Below." A human body is an organized hierarchy of cellular matter. A society, or Empire is a human body on a macro-scale. The human body gets old, ceases to function, and dies. Of course, it reproduces so humanity doesn't die.

Likewise, the societies and Empires will decay, but never truly die as long as people perpetuate them.

I suppose one strategy might consist of struggling for the soul of the Empire; like how the Christians Christianized Rome, not that it did more than a relative good.

In Frank Herbert's Dune, we see the same thing happen. Paul Atreides unites the Fremen and they overthrow the Empire, only to become the Empire. Then all the disease of Empire afflict them.

This leads to a drastic "solution" which involves calculated oppression for millenia until several technological criteria make the existence of Empire impossible; the point being that Empire is dangerous to human survival because it puts too many eggs in one basket.

This is true, as we may be seeing. If power is concentrated into a handful of humans, then if they go nuts, humanity is in trouble.

6/21/2006 03:14:00 PM  
Anonymous luposapien said...

Sorry if my last post was a bit off-topic. It seemed to fit when I was writing it, but I tend towards the tangental at times (as well as alliteration, it seems).

I find myself in agreement with PKD's statement, "To fight the Empire is to be infected by its derangement." A defining characteristic of Empire is that is seeks to destroy the Other. If we do the same, are we any different. You can't use violent coersion to counter the imperial mindset because violent coersion IS the imperial mindset. As I was saying a few posts back, the ends are DETERMINED by the means.

We have to remove ourselves from the cylcle. When we establish ourselves as 'Against the Empire', we are still allowing ourselves to be defined by our relationship to it.

The quote from the 'Lazy Man's Guide to Enlightenment' posted above, regarding the appropriate way to avoid being hit by a car is, it think, pretty much on target. Another way of looking at it is that checking the weather forcast for the coming week so that you have an umbrella handy if you need it, or be prepared to hunker down if a tornado is on it's way. Not to say that Empire is unavoidable, like inclement weather (though it seems 'They' are working on that one too), but I guess that just goes to show the limitations of metaphor, and why literalism is so dangerous.

I think the answer lies in finding what bring you peace, and living your own life accordingly. Not really all that complicated. In theory...

Oh, and speaking of 'First they came for the communists'...

http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/channel.cfm?channelid=49&contentid=3633

Haven't really checked into the accuracy of this yet, but it's seems to fit the general pattern as of late.

6/21/2006 03:27:00 PM  
Anonymous Luposapien said...

Ah. Free will. You can do anything you want. Question is, can you want anything you want.

6/21/2006 03:33:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jack Schwartz... was able to hold lit cigarettes to his arm with no pain, or permanent skin damage... With 72 hours all trace of burns dissappeared.

Hmm. Captain Phil Harris of the crabber Cornelia Marie was talking just last night about a cigarette burning courage stand-off he once had with his son Jake...

anyway... a few posts back on R.I. there was mention of sea serpents, kundalini, the double-helix, caduseus... and I thought about the sea below as the representation of the subconscious, and the snake as perception moving between two worlds...


In traditional wooden ships, sailors had to caulk or 'pay' the seams between planks with hot tar to keep their ship from leaking to the bilges. The devil seam was topmost in the hull, next to the scuppers (waterways or gutters) at the edge of the deck. It was thus the longest seam on the vessel and, not being flush as with other hull seams, the seam that was most prone to spring a leak. A sailor knocked down by a wave would find himself scuppered and lying between the devil and the deep blue sea. Sailors were so weary of repairing this seam that should they find themselves all washed up and beached or stranded (strand is a Dutch word for a beach or an embankment). They might lament that there was the devil to pay and no hot pitch (heading for disaster...)

6/21/2006 03:34:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

-apologies for even more OT, yet I continue:

PS RE: the serpent, ocean waves, sand dunes, and the tuners of Dark City-
I used to run the tape room at a TV station- when you set up a show for playback, you adjust the black pedestal and luminance (B&W) on a 'waveform monitor' and adjust color hue & saturation on a 'vectorscope'.

It's interesting to watch the video signal of a show along with the picture. And back in engineering they had a few oscilloscopes ('oscillation' is the frequency, kenneth). When you route a pure, single signal through a 'scope (like a 60 cycle tone) you see it as a sine wave- like a snake...

6/21/2006 06:28:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Anonymous @ 3:14"

Exactly! Which is why Anarchism is the future.

6/21/2006 08:58:00 PM  
Anonymous Richard said...

Evidently the mind can create all kinds of neato stuff.

From thinkprogress & my home state senator Tricky Dick Santorum.

Sen. Rick Santorum (R-PA) took to the microphone today to announce a shocking discovery — that WMD have been found in Iraq:

"Congressman Hoekstra and I are here today to say that we have found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, chemical weapons. … Since 2003, coalition forces have recovered approximately 500 weapons munitions which contain degraded mustard or sarin nerve agent. Despite many efforts to locate and destroy Iraq’s pre-Gulf War chemical munitions, filled and unfilled pre-Gulf War chemical munitions are assessed to still exist."

See, y'all thought this was an illusory war created out of the ramblings of Cheney's hand puppet.

This November I'm going to honor the dilligent truth telling of Mr. InSantorum & pencil in my own candidate... a Mr. Ben Dover...y'all may have heard of him...he's trying to sneak into the political process through the back door. Mr. Dover & Mr. Santorum are practically soulmates in their attitude to their constituents so PA should have a bright future either way.

6/21/2006 09:20:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Magic is simply stage managed synchronicity. Just one group of people with insider knowledge f*cking with the minds of another group without. IMHO

6/21/2006 09:50:00 PM  
Anonymous starroute said...

Anonymous 9:50 -

There are many things that can be said about magic, but to ever say it is 'simply' this or that is to risk wilfull blindness. For example much of what is being discussed here reminds me strongly of Terry Pratchett's 'headology':

A major subset of the Discworld novels of Terry Pratchett involve the witches of Lancre. . . . Witch magic is very different from the wizard magic taught in the Unseen University, and consists largely of finding the right lever that makes everything else work. Witches rarely do any magic, in fact, relying more on common sense, hard work, and a peculiar brand of psychology known as "headology". This can be taken very far - a witch's way of magically setting fire to a log of wood consists of staring at the log until it burns up from pure embarrassment.



Never doubt for a moment that human beings are strange and uncanny creatures. Homo sapiens are natural magicians. Language was invented as a vehicle for magically altering reality through the manipulation of symbols. Agriculture was invented to insure a steady supply of psychotropic and healing plants. Science started out as magic before it took up trying to look respectable in front of the neighbors. Magic and the pursuit of magic have led the development of civilization at every turn -- and it's only a kind of game we play with ourselves to shuffle our feet and pretend we're as clueless as the average magic-deprived Neanderthal.

When you mess with the human mind, you mess with reality itself.

6/21/2006 11:56:00 PM  
Anonymous starroute said...

Urk. Blogger is messing with my html again. That big white space after the italics should contain the word 'Link' to link to the source of the quote on Pratchett. And what follows should be plain text -- but got turned into one big link instead.

6/21/2006 11:59:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How do you know it's "Blogger"?

Maybe it's God showing you that your "magic" is in fact impotent.

Witness what happened in 1785:

An Illuminati courier named Lanze is struck by lightning, and killed while traveling by horseback through the town of Ratisbon. When Bavarian officials examine the contents of his saddle bags, they discover the existence of the Order of the Illuminati, and find plans detailing the coming French Revolution. The Bavarian Government attempts to alert the government of France of impending disaster, but the French Government fails to heed this warning. Bavarian officials arrest all members of the Illuminati they can find, but Weishaupt and others have gone underground, and cannot be found.

And that was bonafide lightning, of the "If I am lying, may lightning strike me dead" variety.

Not no HAARP wannabe weather or Tesla sparks.

There are signs and wonders everywhere. But they are not the nonsense of which you write, Starry.

If you think your mind is the arbiter of reality, then fix it all. And why are you younger, better looking, and fabulously wealthy, for starters?

6/22/2006 12:09:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Correction:

That's "why AREN'T you....."

Hmmn?

6/22/2006 12:11:00 AM  
Anonymous xxsicxx said...

Jeff,


Very interesting post. I think that I certainly may have ahd my own expierence with this.
4 months ago I was riding on a Motorcross track. My first time on one. About half way through the first time around the course I cam to a table top jump. About half way over it I heard a bike behind me open up...I looked behind me and instantly knew I was going to get hit. I turned my head around and only the people who saw it know what happend next.
I came too some minutes after the crash. My war halfway torn off and my body badly bruised, I saw my best friend standing over me crying. I lokked up at him and said..."Don't worry I will be fine" and I went back out.
The next time I came too I was strapped to a gurnie in the ER. There was blood all over me from my wounds and my body was throbbing. The Doctor came in a few hours later and told me that what they feared was true....A broken c-7 and a brain bleed.I asked the doctor when I could leave and that is when the reality of the situation hit me.
After a few more doses of pain killers I finally went out. About 3am I woke up and was intranced in deep thought...."I can't be hurt, I can't be hurt....Heal yourself, Heal yourself". I hadn't cried in a long time but I did that night.
The next morning the Doctor's did a another battery of tests on me. Later that afternoon a female Doc came in and told me that they were releasing me. I was like what...but that Doc....she was like "yeah I know, must of misread the Films or something cause your fine". I asked her how long the Doc worked there....13 years......
Either that was the worst resident ER Doctor ever.....or something happend within me that night.

6/22/2006 02:08:00 AM  
Blogger Pissedoffcabbie said...

The tapping of our potential is the thing that the elites fear the worst. Thus, a rather thorough dumbing down of the masses has taken place, and a lot of mis-direction in the form of the New Age.

The Nazis were well-versed in the black arts, and offered up the same kind of pseudo-magic for the masses to keep them off the real path. Some things never change.

6/22/2006 02:52:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here's something else we could do:

If humanity could simply band together to reject money, power, and everything that comes with it; if we could all drop out of the system that enslaves each and every one of us; if we could universally agree to turn our backs on any involvement with wars, corporations or big governments, refusing to pay taxes or "vote" or obey "laws" other than the common sense law of mutual respect, then the Earthly Powers would all lie down and whimper like a pack of beaten dogs. We don't have to example superpowers to win, we simply have to stop -- all of us togetehr have to stop -- playing their game by their rules.

6/22/2006 03:25:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jesus, baby. He can handle the empire. That's really what Phillip K Dick's vision was about.

6/22/2006 03:54:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Seems we are witnessing another rebirth of the "cult of death".

http://www.sas.org/tcs/weeklyIssues_2006/2006-04-07/feature1p/index.html

Choose Life

6/22/2006 04:28:00 AM  
Anonymous jules said...

Great post jeff. I tried responding earlier, but it disappeared.

Awesome stuff.

Tai Chi Chaun is good value, just be careful..

There's more power around than you realise, if you know how to look.

"if I'd be a 12 year old Iraqi girl whose mother just got blown to pieces in front of her eyes, I'm certain I'd try the trick with all my might nevertheless."

Just wanting to do something isn't enough.

You have to learn how to do it. In the process of learning you may discover that you don't actually want to do that after all.

I have some very specific ideas that may be worth discussing. If this post makes it, I'll elaborate

6/22/2006 05:22:00 AM  
Anonymous jules said...

Cool that worked.

No man is an island...

... or something or other - someone said that once, and I guess the way they said it reflected just how disconnected they really were.

I mean whats the point of ending connection anywhere, on that level... we might miss allies.

Like the one Jeff mentioned in the snakes in the head post.

Before we take any further steps, we have to reconnect with that.

I am no guru, but these things help me.

Being responsible for what I eat, and more importantly, being THANKFUL. I'm not talking about vegetarianism.(tho I may be, I'm responsible for what I eat, not what anyone reading this eats. Thats your business). If you pull up a carrot you take its life to serve yours. Realise that. And be humble about it.

Perhaps realising that and gloating at your power is one of those steps toward the dark side.

Don't waste life.

Its no coincidence that the term "waste someone" refers to killing them.

I think I am preaching, sorry.

Thats probably not enough anyway.


I honestly think that only magic can save us now.

But then perhaps it was all that ever saved us.

6/22/2006 05:35:00 AM  
Anonymous silverfox said...

We relate to and interract with others based primarily on what we know and have come to believe about ourselves.

Whatever we can imagine ourselves doing we can quite easily envision others doing as well.

Whatever we can't imagine ourselves doing is generally shocking, incomprehensible or outrageous whenever we actually confront it being done by others.

Now the practicioners of evil are both contemptuous of others as well as finding all their normal inhibitions and honest feelings to be incomprehensible and outrageous.

It's foolish for us to ever think that they believe they are better than others. If they genuinely believed that they'd have no reason to constantly try to prove it or manipulate and contrive events to continually demonstrate it either to themselves or us.

The closer we scritinize these peculiar individuals the more we find that that is essentially all that they ever do. Their lives are completely focussed and centred on it.

The very low opinion that they appear to have of their victims also applies to themselves. In fact that extremely low estate in which everyone is held what they use to justify and excuse their own egregious actions.

If anything they elevate their own status in their own minds with concepts of discipline, daring, and ruthlessness that they apply to themselves. That is what sets them apart.

Now there is a great deal of weakness rather than any strength to their position. Finding the best methods to exploit those weaknesses is the way to deal with these miscreants.

6/22/2006 05:40:00 AM  
Anonymous jules said...

" But before we can answer that, perhaps we need to learn of what we're capable. Because the Empire knows, and would rather that we didn't."

This story could just be a coincidence.

I can't remember the details, it was in the nineties, after Feb 98, so its just the outline. Its context at the time: I had just handed in an essay, on this very subject, if I had heard it two days earlier it would have been in it.

Some old blackfella from way out west, on the West Coast of Australia, had been taught the totemic dances and initiated into an aboriginal cult. As in part of cult yuo are or culture. (Thats one thing I learned of Laurence Gardiner, dodgy pisspoor academic practise). It was a totemic thing.

The animal was extinct, and he was the last of his culture to be initiated. He was told, never stop dancing this dance, it is your heritage, your law, and even if you never see the animals, the spirits are there and if you keep it going THEY WILL COME BACK.

So he did, all his life. And as an eighty four year old man, a Western Quoll, his critter, was found, 1000s of miles east in central Australia. the only one since possibly before his birth. Even thinking about this story nearly makes me weep. And I can be a cold, hard bastard.

Say what you want, to this day I know he saved that species. I hope he taught someone his songs.

My essay was, as a whitefella(kind of) trying to explain and understand the magic behind that process. And the law that existed to further it and prevent the abuse of that power.

This story was one of those weird coincidences. Personal proof I was on the right track.

I could go on and on and on like Gnarls, but that story says it all to me.

6/22/2006 05:53:00 AM  
Anonymous jules said...

Sorry to keep going on, but one more point for now.

That process, of ritual, belief and the rest, that old matey went through for his whole life, it involves magic. And art.

In that context, thing about that band Tool, the aenema record.

And the image of the US on the back...

Learn to swim

6/22/2006 05:57:00 AM  
Blogger Sounder said...

What you do determines what 'spirits' reside inside you. If time is spent coercing weak willed people to submit to a dogma then Satan is being called. If you are drunk on your intellect then Lucifer is being accessed. If you choose fellowship, then Christ is your man, metaphorically speaking, of course.

Luposapian,

The consciousness precedes being idea holds water for me because I see it as a way to displace the negative symbiotic relationship between religious absolutists and secular utopianists. Either way, a life of prescriptions is no way to cultivate dynamic creative citizens. It can also be seen as a handle to begin to explain how the pre-manifest comes into manifestation.

Hey- Everybody,- Have a Great day.

6/22/2006 07:20:00 AM  
Blogger Sounder said...

previous first paragraph was directed to anon; 2:50.

6/22/2006 07:59:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"There were vast fortunes to be made, after all, in an economy based on mass production and organized to favor the large corporation rather than the small business or the family farm. But mass production required mass consumption, and at the turn of the twentieth century most Americans considered it both unnatural and unwise to buy things they didn't actually need. Mandatory schooling was a godsend on that count. School didn't have to train kids in any direct sense to think they should consume nonstop, because it did something even better: it encouraged them not to think at all. And that left them sitting ducks for another great invention of the modem era - marketing.

Now, you needn't have studied marketing to know that there are two groups of people who can always be convinced to consume more than they need to: addicts and children. School has done a pretty good job of turning our children into addicts, but it has done a spectacular job of turning our children into children. Again, this is no accident. Theorists from Plato to Rousseau to our own Dr. Inglis knew that if children could be cloistered with other children, stripped of responsibility and independence, encouraged to develop only the trivializing emotions of greed, envy, jealousy, and fear, they would grow older but never truly grow up. In the 1934 edition of his once well-known book Public Education in the United States, Ellwood P. Cubberley detailed and praised the way the strategy of successive school enlargements had extended childhood by two to six years, and forced schooling was at that point still quite new. This same Cubberley - who was dean of Stanford's School of Education, a textbook editor at Houghton Mifflin, and Conant's friend and correspondent at Harvard - had written the following in the 1922 edition of his book Public School Administration: "Our schools are . . . factories in which the raw products (children) are to be shaped and fashioned.. . . And it is the business of the school to build its pupils according to the specifications laid down."

It's perfectly obvious from our society today what those specifications were. Maturity has by now been banished from nearly every aspect of our lives. Easy divorce laws have removed the need to work at relationships; easy credit has removed the need for fiscal self-control; easy entertainment has removed the need to learn to entertain oneself; easy answers have removed the need to ask questions. We have become a nation of children, happy to surrender our judgments and our wills to political exhortations and commercial blandishments that would insult actual adults. We buy televisions, and then we buy the things we see on the television. We buy computers, and then we buy the things we see on the computer. We buy $150 sneakers whether we need them or not, and when they fall apart too soon we buy another pair. We drive SUVs and believe the lie that they constitute a kind of life insurance, even when we're upside-down in them. And, worst of all, we don't bat an eye when Ari Fleischer tells us to "be careful what you say," even if we remember having been told somewhere back in school that America is the land of the free. We simply buy that one too. Our schooling, as intended, has seen to it.

Now for the good news. Once you understand the logic behind modern schooling, its tricks and traps are fairly easy to avoid. School trains children to be employees and consumers; teach your own to be leaders and adventurers. School trains children to obey reflexively; teach your own to think critically and independently. Well-schooled kids have a low threshold for boredom; help your own to develop an inner life so that they'll never be bored. Urge them to take on the serious material, the grown-up material, in history, literature, philosophy, music, art, economics, theology - all the stuff schoolteachers know well enough to avoid. Challenge your kids with plenty of solitude so that they can learn to enjoy their own company, to conduct inner dialogues. Well-schooled people are conditioned to dread being alone, and they seek constant companionship through the TV, the computer, the cell phone, and through shallow friendships quickly acquired and quickly abandoned. Your children should have a more meaningful life, and they can.

First, though, we must wake up to what our schools really are: laboratories of experimentation on young minds, drill centers for the habits and attitudes that corporate society demands. Mandatory education serves children only incidentally; its real purpose is to turn them into servants. Don't let your own have their childhoods extended, not even for a day. If David Farragut could take command of a captured British warship as a preteen, if Thomas Edison could publish a broadsheet at the age of twelve, if Ben Franklin could apprentice himself to a printer at the same age (then put himself through a course of study that would choke a Yale senior today), there's no telling what your own kids could do. After a long life, and thirty years in the public school trenches, I've concluded that genius is as common as dirt. We suppress our genius only because we haven't yet figured out how to manage a population of educated men and women. The solution, I think, is simple and glorious. Let them manage themselves."
John Taylor Gatto, writing 'Against Schools,' on how public schools are designed to be a mechanism for mass mind and social control.

6/22/2006 09:28:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi Jeff,
I am a relatively new reader, of your blog, but wow!!! anyway as this is my first comment it's gonna be short. Are we as a species just an echo of what we can achieve, and if so we havw until the reverberation fades to get it right.

6/22/2006 10:48:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

good job, jeff. keep it up. this is the right path.

6/22/2006 11:51:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Although I am a "mind over matter" neophyte, I know it can be done. I have had some small (very small) successes. But what I am most curious about is what good might we do collectively? A deliberate use of "global conscioness".

For example, how many focused minds willing it together would it take to turn the hearts and minds of Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld away from hatred and war? How many would it take to tame or turn a killer hurricane? Stop an epidemic? And would or could such attempts backfire?

Even those who are most interested in the spiritual don't seem view mind-over-matter/mind as a group endeavor very often.

Any thoughts?

6/22/2006 01:06:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sounder - anon 2:50 here.

Agreed for the most part. If ones choses by ones own free will to say...subvert the weak; I image a demon of sorts would feel pretty much at home in that body and make the job of subversion that much easier and more effective for the individual who chose that path.

6/22/2006 01:35:00 PM  
Anonymous rocco said...

Hey Jeff, Rocco here. I wanted to point out a photo of Brezinski and Bin Laden from 1979 that I think would be an excellent addition to this post. Inserting it in the paragraph about our "sweater-wearing" president...I have it stored on ripway... Here's the link...

http://h1.ripway.com/iggy06/Brzezinski-BinLaden.jpg

6/22/2006 01:55:00 PM  
Anonymous pete said...

For years now I'd like to see the following experiment being realized: Imagine a football arena full of people, and on a stage in the middle of the arena a hermetically sealed glass box. Inside that glass box, there's a single pin lying on a (just for drama...) red velvet cushion. Ok, then the audience gets asked to relax for some minutes. After that, they get the following task: "Move the pin by the power of your thought. Imagine it rising from the cushion and make it floating in midair. Focus... Now do it."

What do you think? Could an audience of maybe 50.000 people inside the stadium, joined by millions on their TV sets, create a reality that makes the pin move just one tiny bit?

6/22/2006 02:18:00 PM  
Blogger Syn Diesel said...

"And the manifestations of seemingly intractable Empire are promoting in its demoralized opposition a paralytic state of apprehended madness."

It's this exact issue that got my loudmouth ass banned over at the Solari.com board. That and saying "fuck" a lot. I don't see any solutions coming out of the current "resistance" as it is, considering its nature as a reactionary core of TV doctor "I'm not a real activist but I play one on the interweb" professional Meme Incubators. There will be plenty of glimmers but until a critical threshold of individuals can see a spontaneous synchronized shift to an alternate way doing things it's not going to happen. Atleast not unless eating shrooms while reading Buckminster Fuller books suddenly becomes the hip thing to do. :-/

http://www.grunch.net/
http://bfi.org/node/406

6/22/2006 03:40:00 PM  
Anonymous ThePistol44 said...

Hey Jeff. First, I just wanted to add my 2 cents on how inspiring, refreshing, and important this site is. I have been a devoted reader and occasional commentor for a few years now, and it is truly remarkable how your posts and the comments have developed around them. It's the most honest, wide-reaching investigation into the world and nature of reality (as well as the hijacking of it) that I have ever found... and it's complete with a healthy dose of self-reflection and a contributing, nurturing, and thoughtful community of readers. We have something truly special here, everyone. Take a minute to appreciate it and send some positive mental energy (prayers?) in Jeff's direction as a thanks.

Now to my point: I think Anon 1:06 and Pete are onto something great...

A constant question here is "Now that we know, what can we do?" It's entirely valid and the fact that it comes up so often is encouraging. However, it often seems to ultimately end in futilty as the structures around us are designed to keep us chasing the proverbial carrot while they switch to celery.

It seems like the best subject to constantly revist is how to change the system without being sucked in by it. Getting out of your house and telling what you know to the world seems like a good first step, but we're frustrated by the obvious lack of influence street protests have... everyone shows up, yells some various slogans to people that already agree, which is then portrayed by the corporate media as a crazy-fest of hippy liberals.

Well, what if we harness this ability inside all of us to affect change with our minds? Instead of using our voices or our guns, we use the untapped potential that is illustrated over and over on this site.
Of course people would be skeptical, but if there could be demonstrable evidence (the pin in the stadium idea by Pete) then we could possibly really turn the tides. Imagine if all the people of the world were able to use the collective power of our minds to battle evil in a real, tangible way?

It's perhaps our only chance... and hey, it's not like what we've been doing is working so well.

6/22/2006 03:50:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jules, you wrote this beautiful insight:

"If you pull up a carrot you take its life to serve yours. Realise that. And be humble about it.

Perhaps realising that and gloating at your power is one of those steps toward the dark side.

Don't waste life."

I completely agree. It is this mindset that, until industrialized Western imperialism, enabled hunter-gatherer societies to sustain themselves indefinitely in virtually every habitat on earth, from the north pole to the great plains to the equatorial rainforests.

So why make the, wholly erroneous -- in my judgement, leap to "magic" as a solution?? This is, if you'll pardon the expression, nothing more than 'magical thinking', which even in its most esoteric forms is little more than wishful thinking with whopping doses of ego, anger, greed, lust, contempt, jealousy, envy (oops, that almost looks like the seven deadly sins) thrown on the heap.

Magic is morally corrupt. It is spiritual bullshit, and that's on a good day.

Who gives a flying fuck if 50,000 people can move a pin on a red cushion -- nice luciferian image that? Why waste energy on it.

Perhaps the aboriginal's dog returned not because of "magic", but because of the love his human friend sustained for him.

Love, that is the one true magic in our world. And we need more of it.

Read some of Rumi's Masnavi i masnavi if you get a chance. That covers it from virtually every imaginable viewpoint, on a very human level, from the most sublime spiritual ectasy and longing, to farts and sex with donkey's (as a parable, mind you). It ranges from riotously, scatalogically funny, to ironic, wise, insightful, sublime, and can carry one to an understanding beyond words.

To Anonymous 9:28 who posted on education: So very well said and well documented. Thank you for your synopsis. There are other NWO/PTB documents, from the Rockefeller clan and others, where it is explicity written that the purpose of the US education system is to quash creativity, free thought, and the development of insight and innovation. That is seen as a threat to the powers that be. It is also written in a Carnegie education foundation document. You can find them if you google a bit.

But back to Jules' beautiful insight. You are so on track, up to a point. You take a brilliant insight and then get lost and go astray. Backtrack a bit and re-examine it in your heart.

"Magic" is neither the explanation of the miraculous, nor the solution to our problems.

Living up to the level of the initial insight you expressed, that, in fact, would be wisdom.

Go for it, dude. You can do it.

We all can.

Or at least enough of us to make the difference we need right now, and in the future.

If you choose "magic", and "white" or "black," "right hand" or "left hand," it is all ultimately the same, ie. the aggrandizement of ego, the inflation of the nafs, then you will "think you're in Heaven but you're living in Hell," to quote my old friend Robert Nesta Marley.

Free will. It's not "anything you want", as someone said earlier in this post. It is a constant moral challenge, the consequences of which will be world shattering or world redeeming for us all.

Peace and Love,

Mojo Filter

6/22/2006 03:52:00 PM  
Anonymous Shrubageddon said...

I'm not feeling so positive again. Plenty of opinions, and quite varied, but no unified action.

It's just Mind Candy right now, and the effects quickly wear off when we return to servicing The Beast.

6/22/2006 04:14:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If there's a way for humankind as a whole to tap into psychic powers, I'm quite sure the good guys would win. If 50 %, or maybe even just 5 % of the world population would be evil minded, we'd be already all dead by now. So let's make it a yellow cushion and try the pin in the stadium thing :)

6/22/2006 04:20:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sorry, but no. You don't get it.

It's not about "psychic power."

That is the problem.

That kind of power, whether real or imagined, corrupts absolutely.

Why is this so difficult for some people to comprehend???

The "battle" must be fought on a higher plane, so to speak.

There is power in the Universe vastly vastly greater than anyone's individual or collective will, however it may be directed.

It is THAT power we must tap.

And that does not derive from human will eo ipso, from wishing or wanting. "If wishes were horses, beggers would ride."

Get over it.

Go deeper. The answer lies not in the Sahasrara chakra, but in the Hridaya. The heart.

That is the middle way of the buddha.

That is the direct path, whether sufi, muslim, christian, jew, or hindu.

Therein one will find the correct path of action.

That is the way, or the tao.

It is more powerful than pins and needles, pillows and cushions, and stopping hearts.

What arrogance -- you might want to learn how to START a few hearts, ie. bring them to life, before you go around stopping them.

But the truth of it can, perhaps, not be spoken.

So enough with words.

~Mojo

6/22/2006 04:33:00 PM  
Anonymous Shrubageddon said...

How about we make it Donald Rumsfeld on a purple cushion and we psychically endow him with breasts and a moisture laden vagina?

Nah......he'd probably like that.....I know his friends definitely would.

6/22/2006 04:35:00 PM  
Anonymous Luposapien said...

You can call it a moral challange, or a test given to us by 'God', or a philisophical dilema, or what-have-you. What I was getting at with my (admitedly flippant) comment on free will is that it comes down to a person making a 'decision' between two or more options. But that decision is, invariably, determined by the desires, or wants, of that person. Wether that desire is to pursue the common good, or one's selfish ego-driven lusts, it still boils down to 'doing what you want'. And sure, we can work towards the elimiantion of certain desires, but, as the rehab folks are fond of saying, all the therapy in the world isn't going to help you without the desire to make a change.

6/22/2006 04:35:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"There is power in the Universe vastly vastly greater than anyone's individual or collective will, however it may be directed.

It is THAT power we must tap."

Perhaps a better choice of verb, instead of just 'tap' might be:

Surf, bathe in, breathe, be grateful for....

Jules, you were so right on with your suggestion of cultivating gratitude.

Thankfulness is a good start.

'Nuff said.

~M

6/22/2006 04:48:00 PM  
Anonymous Luposapien said...

By the way, Mojo, I actually DO agree with much of what you are saying. I just think the jury's still out on free will.

6/22/2006 04:56:00 PM  
Anonymous ThePistol44 said...

Hey Mojo...

Why don't you take a second and stop with your bullshit phrases and condescending ego-boosting and respect what some people are trying to get across... and maybe then you will actually understand something yourself: we're saying the same thing.

I don't think what some are suggesting here is to co-opt the evil used by the PTB and turn it around against them. It's not about trying to stop the heart of Bush, Cheney, etc.
Instead, I think what has been suggested is the collective will of goodness can influence the world in a positive way. Much like prayer, but with heightened awareness of the actual power of will.
With that in mind, much like a prayer for someone to die a horrible death is not actually a prayer, the collective will would focus on the benefit and true happiness of humanity, and let "God," "The Universe," "Karma," (or whatever you want to call it) determine how it would actually come about.

Sounds a lot like the "Love" you were talking about.

But I do also love Jules' thoughts on gratitude and humility. You were right on to highlight that.

6/22/2006 05:00:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mulberry eater sez...

There's so much here in this particular thread, a lot that reflects what I've been reading and learning about, that I had been wanting to mention, and now the time seems ripe, just like the wild mulberries here that are now ready to eat. (That's not just a metaphor - there really are a bunch of mulberry trees around here, and new ripe berries appear every day.)

I don't think anyone has mentioned Owen Barfield yet, though his ideas are very pertinent to the world of ideas in this blog. I had read him for a while before finding out that he was a devoted anthroposophist. His writing is much more accessible and succinct than Steiner's (the founder of anthroposophy). He doesn't require quite the suspension of disbelief and willingness to check out an unfamiliar world-view as Steiner does. But he quietly and thoroughly dismantles some of the underlying assumptions of what we might call "modern consciousness." Rather than try to summarize his ideas, I'll suggest looking for his writings, and also point to my own blog (hipnessmolecule.livejournal.com), where I talk about him, as well as more personal matters like clean socks, so as to not be too different from the average blog, which is unaware of the existence of Owen Barfield. (Actually, no socks are mentioned, but occasionally I mention something somewhat personal if it seems worth mentioning.)

I tried writing a bit more about Barfield here, but stopped, since it became more of a torrent than a sample. I'l only say that I recommend his work with great enthusiasm, because of how well and lucidly he has worked through a lot of the issues in the deep background of this blog.

I should also mention Goethe. In many ways he is the source and precursor of Steiner. Henri Bortoft, among many others (who he mentions and credits), has written some very useful and accessible material about Goethe's scientific method. The main idea is that Goethe took scientific rigor and thoroughness and applied it to qualities rather than quantities. With Goethe's method, there still could be a modern quantitative science, as a complement to qualitative science, but it would be somewhat different from our version. For instance, it wouldn't necessarily be atomistic. THis is another rather large topic that I am barely touching upon here.

I haven't seen Gary Lachman's name mentioned here, though his writing is very relevant, too. He wrote a history of occultism in the 1960's, and his best book is probably The Secret History of Consciousness, where he covers a lot of other thinkers on consciousness that I had never heard of, but was glad to learn of them, such as Jean Gebser. Lachman and Colin Wilson are both helpful journalists of evolution-of-consciousness, while Barfield is more of a scholar and godfather of it.

Before I forget, I also want to recommend the monograph "Science and the Paranormal" by engineering professor Leonard Lewin, for many reasons. It's short, in print, not expensive, and perhaps available in some libraries. One thing he suggests is that paranormal abilities may well be correlated with one's lack of bias and desire for a particular result.

One more intriguing book - People of the Secret, which suggested to me that in addition to the "evil conspiracies" that so many people talk about, there could well be a "good conspiracy" also working behind the scenes, with extremely skilled beings. I suppose one's ability to recognize a member of either a "white" or a "black" conspiracy is related to one's own biases, desires, and blind spots.

About magic - our ordinary worldview seems to accept only the mundane and banal, explainable by standard mechanistic theories. Then, everything that doesn't fit is relegated to either illusion, hallucination, or some mysterious world of "scary powers". I'm realizing that if you adopt an approach like Goethe's, and examine oneself as the observer of nature as well as external nature, and overcome the gap, that everything starts to fit together and everything is a marvel and "nothing special" at the same time. "Special powers" then become more analogous to the kind of skill we exercise every day. An analogy might be learning to fly an airplane.

The other thing, though, which I keep encountering in spiritual writing, is that "powers" are a side-effect of a responsible and deliberate development of consciousness, not the goal or purpose, and can be useful, but usually are then superceded and go away as one develops further.

This is only a small start, but I wanted to get some of this out there. I bet that several of you at least have run into Barfield before.

And after writing more than I planned to, I haven't even mentioned Idries Shah until now...


* * * * * * * *

By the way, isn't there a way to get rid of the numerous purely spam posts that clog up so many of these threads? They often seem to take up more space than the real stuff...

6/22/2006 05:02:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

...I almost forgot to mention Borges. Start with "Deutsches Requiem", maybe?

6/22/2006 05:05:00 PM  
Anonymous prunes said...

Owen Barfield is the shit! I love the Inklings! Borges, too!

---
on free will:

The One which is the original actor and which is present in all of us is the source of our apparent free will. Whether or not this is freedom depends on perspective.

To the extent that we act in conformity with it, we act freely, but it may at first appear to us to be submitting to something. However, if we try to fight against this thing, we are only acting reactively, i.e. robotically, Ahrimanically.

From the One's perspective, all is freedom. No attempts at asserting the individual "will" will suffice, the individual will, the reactive mind (that Scientology purports to rid you of), the nafs, the beast, etc. must submit itself to its natural master, then it will find itself truly free.

6/22/2006 06:05:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I suppose the point is not trying to create some kind of "X-Men" team. But someone somehow proving 'mind over matter' would be heresy within the eyes of the powers that control the world. It'd completely undermine any existing power structures - and this way, the people of this world might get a new chance of reflecting onto themselves and maybe create a better planet in the process. At this moment in time, we're already earmarked for extinction anyway. I dunno, but in the eyes of Gaia consciousness might look like a very dangerous idea never to be tried again. What has been so bad about millenia of apples, oranges, apes and sunsets in the jungle? In comparison to that, can a planet being wired up to explode really be seen as having made any evolutionary progress?

Regarding stopping hearts etc.: Psychic warfare, if possible at all, would be most stupid. I'm also asking myself who on earth would start sticking metallic rods through their vital organs if knowing nothing could happen. But on the other hand, I also dont "get" piercings ... ;)

6/22/2006 06:50:00 PM  
Anonymous tal said...

“…Wherever there is an opportunity for definite beings, then they are always there. If a person sends out wrong, evil feelings, these live around him and attract beings which are there waiting, just as some physical being waits for food. I once compared this with the fact that there are no flies in a clean room; if there are all sorts of food-remains in the room, then there are flies. So it is with the supersensible beings: one need only provide them with the means of nourishment…”

"...We all know the deep significance of the statement “ Regarded from the spiritual- scientific aspect a lie is a kind of murder.” I have explained that a sort of explosion really takes place in the astral world when man utters a lie – even, in a certain way, if he only thinks it. Something takes place in the spiritual world when man lies, which has a far more devastating effect for that world than any misfortune in the physical world. But things which one relates at a certain stage of spiritual-scientific observation, characterizing them as far as possible then, gain more and more clearness and confirmation when one advances in the knowledge of spiritual science.
Today we shall learn of another effect of lying, slandering, although these words are not used here in the ordinary crude sense. When more subtly, out of convention, for instance, or out of all sorts of social or party considerations, people colour the truth, we have to do with a lie in the sense of spiritual science..." Rudolf Steiner June 1908



if anyone's interested in the entire second quote, lemme know and I'll post it in the data dump---it's waaay too long to post here.

6/22/2006 06:51:00 PM  
Blogger Sounder said...

Mulberry eater,

Owen Barfield said that the consensual representation is always wrong. An important observation, I think.

6/22/2006 08:19:00 PM  
Anonymous Subliminal Minister said...

If you pull up a carrot you take its life to serve yours. Realise that. And be humble about it.

I love it. It is the beginning of wisdom. None of us has clean hands -- none. And it's set up that way, so no use crying about it. We visit death, and we are visited in turn. Don't the old, full of years and experiences, at last give way to the milky-breathed novice, full of convictions and silly things to say? It's the way of things.

I had this discussion with my brother not too long ago. We were speaking of scripture, and (as he is wont to do) he mentioned Jesus calming the storm at sea and telling his disciples "O ye of little faith..." He takes that as a biblical admission that there are "powers" for men to wield, and that it is their right -- their destiny -- to do so.

Perhaps, I say. But if I had the knowledge/wisdom of God, only then could I take up the reins. In other words, yeah, maybe I could send the storm away and be at ease on the water. But what happens when harvest time rolls around, and the rain that would have guaranteed a surplus was dismissed? When folks are starving, will it matter that I was safe in the boat lo these many weeks or months ago? Now that would suck. This is the problem with our world today -- well, actually two, one being the insistence on viewing oneself as an "individual," or indivisible duality, as I like to say). But the one I mean is the one where people's ability outstrips their knowledge, and we see it manifest everywhere -- from space travel to bio-warfare, from cloned soybeans to cloned people, from Tuskegee to tetragrammaton.

The question is not "Can I do it?" but rather "Should I?" All things are possible, but not all things are permitted. Some rage with illicit power through the streets like angry beasts, seeking whom they can devour. Others, seeing themselves in others, struggle for a more sublime level of mastery -- that of self. And in that struggle, they discover that they are both master and mastered.

Reminds me of a line from a movie I saw, ironically about vampires: "Self-revelation is annihilation of self." Once you get past that yammering "me" that wants to be in control of everything, you find the lines between self and other begin to blur -- not physically, but in every other way that counts. You can relate, empathize more. You can see more sides of an argument, and are less likely to be on one. You can "pick up someone's vibe" VERY easily. And other things start happening -- synchronicities and other reality ripples that tend to confirm what, in the end, you knew from the beginning: we're all the same thing.

Given that, whose heart would I want to stop?

6/22/2006 09:01:00 PM  
Anonymous Subliminal Minister said...

Itchy trigger finger.

Just wanted to add something that I hope ties it together. The exercise of power, such as I conceived of it above, is not -- or should not be -- a violent act. Rather, the most miraculous things happen due to the interaction between the actor and the acted upon. If I tell the mountain to move, it can't be because I'm late for work and it's in the way. Mountains tend to ignore those types of requests. Out of love I ask it to move itself, and out of love it responds.

Love is the only power -- the acknowledgement of common source, common substance and common destination. Honest Abe (hahaha) said something like "Let us hope we are on God's side." That is the nature of power -- alignment with or resistance against the way of things. We could go a long way by learning what side of that fence we're on.

6/22/2006 09:18:00 PM  
Anonymous humblenotry said...

I found this blogsite through Mack White's blogger. I appreciate the various perspectives posted here and appreciate the maturity of the individuals posting. Men will always be men. hehehehehe Anyway I hope I do not annoy too much with this particular post.

Eden is burning. Adam and Eve believed in greener pastures. They hoped that they could reach a state of being better than they had relying on their freewill conscience. Their freewill conscience was affected by a greater and wiser being than themselves in Eden. The Creator is the owner of Eden and He prepared them for the wisest of all of His creation, Lucifer. Lucifer offered them this Empire. The Empire of today with it's glory and pain. If they would separate themselves from the confines of Eden and trust in Lucifer they would become the righteous rulers of this Empire.

Praying in their hearts that the owner of Eden would support them, they left behind the knowledge of the Creator favoring this magnificent Empire that Lucifer had taught them. They prepared themselves for this possible Empire while in Eden. As dumb sheep Adam and Eve choose to do this relying on Lucifer and not the Creator. Lucifer had chosen to go agaisnt God's nature and have the Creator's creation serve him. It was a betrayal of Adam and Eve so to speak. It was never intended that Adam and Eve would rule this Empire with Lucifer's assistance. Lucifer would be the sole heir of God's creation based on the freewill conscience of the first Human beings. They unwittingly gave this Empire over to Lucifer. They had acknowledged his authority and ability to grant them rulermanship in spite of the Creator.

Satan as a spiritual being created by the Creator left his natural post as servant to God's creation. He wanted to be served. He no longer served the Creator and based on his freewill conscience accepted the fact that he was indeed greater than his Creator. Mind over Mind. He could never see himself serving humankind. Only to be served as the righteous ruler of all of the Creator's creation.

If Lucifer's Creator would accept this reality then and only then would Lucifer be considered greater than Him. The changing of the guards was the simple fact of Adam's freewill. He wanted the leadership of Lucifer. He knew that he would have more than what he knew was in Eden, and he would be the first and highest authority in this Empire that Lucifer showed him. The most significant fact is that Lucifer never intended that Adam would be the highest authority. It would be Lucifer himself. Who is the cog in God's natural progressive learning process. In God's natural procreation process. In humankind's natural rulermanship process.

For this Lucifer is cursed. There will always be a wall between his and the dumb sheep's (humankind's) progeny. Always a wall between his influence and humankind's influence. Due to the corruption of primitive truth we may get sucked into a world of discord and frustration. Satan wants us to reason that if we accept his influences we will get security to better deal with the dumb sheep's influences and rationalize that he truely is a most righteous one. Innocent of most manipulations especially religious.

But the evidence begs to differ as Lucifer is always more dominant in this world's affairs than any bible believer. He always was and without direct intervention by the Creator, humankind is doomed to serve Satan to his delight. Doomed because I believe that Satan does not appreciate his own freewill conscience, or humankind's.

6/22/2006 10:13:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Reminds me of the movie "firestarter" where david keith's character had psychic powers, but got a nosebleed and headache etc from using it.

6/22/2006 10:58:00 PM  
Anonymous Subliminal Minister said...

He wanted to be served. He no longer served the Creator and based on his freewill conscience accepted the fact that he was indeed greater than his Creator.

Hmmm. As I understand it, humans are the only created things with free will. Satan, that bad old guy, is doing his job; namely, to make it hot enough for the most stubborn-headed to say "Enough!" God -- however you conceive it -- doesn't make mistakes, and so the very idea of a "rebellion" is blasphemy, implying as it does that Lucifer somehow escaped the nature of his creation and in fact became more than he was created to be -- which is the very thing he said to us in the Garden, right?

It definitely plays into the current situation to suppose that there is a stuggle going on somewhere out there, between the ultimate powers for the ultimate prize. In fact, I think I saw amovie like that... Anyway, when all are one, where is the struggle? The only beings damn fool enough not to know their place -- in this great place -- is us.

6/22/2006 11:04:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

there is no devil, only god when he's drunk.

6/23/2006 12:27:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mulberry Eater had said:

"Before I forget, I also want to recommend the monograph "Science and the Paranormal" by engineering professor Leonard Lewin, for many reasons. It's short, in print, not expensive, and perhaps available in some libraries. One thing he suggests is that paranormal abilities may well be correlated with one's lack of bias and desire for a particular result."


I should clarify the last part of the last sentence to this: "...correlated with one's lack of bias and lack of desire for a particular result."


To sounder: can you refer me to where Barfield mentioned the "sonsensual perception" to be always wrong? I may not have read the surrounding material, and I'd like to. It sounds familiar, but my first reaction is that Barfield would have likely qualified the statement somewhat.

6/23/2006 02:05:00 AM  
Anonymous technofreak said...

Funny you should mention Michael Talbot.
I started reading his book again (for the third time this decade) last full moon....
You one trippy man Jeff ;)

6/23/2006 02:07:00 AM  
Anonymous Raul said...

TerrorStorm

Alex’s newest, hot off the Internets. Get it here:

http://www.mininova.org/get/348101

6/23/2006 02:17:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This clip from Colbert relates a bit more to the Snakes in your Head post, but given all the garden of Eden symbology in this string, and the theme of the forbidden, relates as well here too:

http://movies.crooksandliars.com/TCR-Snakes.wmv

http://movies.crooksandliars.com/TCR-Snakes.mov

It's a hoot.

6/23/2006 02:39:00 AM  
Anonymous matt carr said...

to save one self from "the empire's" derangement you simply need to disengage

whichever side you are on, you give power to these people simply by paying a great deal of attention to them, distracting you from what is able to save you, 1) minimalism, in an anti-materialism sense, your cars and your comforts kill you 2) find out what is actually important to humanity, not to humans, the roles of kings do not matter much for a species

a book that might help in a general way is the yoga of the bhagavat gita, by sri krishna prem, and specifically that author/interpreter

in other info, though most likely already been offered, if you would like assistance in finding a way off of blogger.com I would be happy to assist, being currently unemployed and having some time longdead(at)gmail.com

6/23/2006 04:26:00 AM  
Blogger Syn Diesel said...

ThePistol44 said...

"Well, what if we harness this ability inside all of us to affect change with our minds? Instead of using our voices or our guns, we use the untapped potential that is illustrated over and over on this site."


Sonofabitch here it is again! No! No! NO! Stop fucking thinking! Quantum potentials didn't crack those kid's skulls in Tikrit! Newtonian physics works just fine for this mess you idiots! Don't like being called an idiot? Too bad, welcome to the world it gets real nasty from here on out fuckers. FUCK. Move your fucking hand thats telekinesis.


hello I'm Mark, nevermind him.

6/23/2006 05:45:00 AM  
Blogger Syn Diesel said...

How does this shit happen?

jules said...

If you pull up a carrot you take its life to serve yours.


A carrot has no more "life" than my toenail clippings. WTF. This is retarded. Now carrots have "life" where idiots have none.

Carrots are here to make life. That happens when YOU eat them. Carrots don't have brains. Carrots only have brains when the brain-having creatures eat them. Still, carrots are still nothing but greens. Why the fuck am I discussing vegetables???

6/23/2006 06:08:00 AM  
Blogger Syn Diesel said...

matt carr said...

1) minimalism, in an anti-materialism sense, your cars and your comforts kill you
2) find out what is actually important to humanity, not to humans, the roles of kings do not matter much for a species



Oh Holy Fuck please imbue me. Sri Krishna Prem might want to check out the 2,000,000,000 people that would like material shit. Oh, yeah, the U.N. NWO says most of those 2,000,000,000 people are kids. Next time you fucking hippies suggest a solution you might want to look at your local coffee shoppee. 100 Year Asscocks.

6/23/2006 06:22:00 AM  
Blogger Syn Diesel said...

Vegetables are overated.

I've never met an animal that killed because it was Evil, but I've met a Bush that did.


Do you use up the water in a waterfall if you bathe in it?


Mark here again, please ignore them.

6/23/2006 06:32:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sin Diesel:

Your constant cursing only belies the paucity of your vocabulary and the vacancy of your thought.

Carrots in the ground, even a long time after they are picked, are very much alive, just like other plants, numbnuts.

Your toenail clippings are, in fact, dead, dried up keratin (same protein as in your skin).

Water gets dirty when you bath in it.

Your comments are pointless, rude, and factually challenged.

Why don't you take a couple of valium, or blow some reefer, and go sit on a bench somewhere and sulk quietly?

Who are you, Eric Cartman as an adolescent?

6/23/2006 06:39:00 AM  
Blogger Syn Diesel said...

I'm just downloading...


"The Demiurge is the source of all worldly sin, passion and pain. Pleasure and fun and Double Chocolate Sundaes too. The very moment want, desire, good and bad, up and down came into being within the cosmic reality (along with all the subatomic particles and physical "objective" laws the skeptical materialist obsess over) or atleast the logical primordial precursors of what we now experience as subjective want, desire, good and bad, up and down within this incarnation, each and every experience of worldy passion within this Matrix was planned and set in motion. This jealous, imperfect god is bat-shit nuts and it's still working through it's neurotic issues before it returns to the source of all existence, objective and subject existence, which by definition must be perfect.

If you've ever wondered why you can feel alone, clueless one moment then immortal, know-it-all Cosmic Christ incarnate the next, this is why. You are the Demiurge. You lot are god.


See anyone else around that fits that description?"


http://www.solariactionnetwork.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=11221#11221

6/23/2006 06:52:00 AM  
Blogger Syn Diesel said...

"Your toenail clippings are, in fact, dead, dried up keratin (same protein as in your skin)."


Keratin is a molecule which has a wild vibration. Far more sophisticated than a wad of starch molecules. Dumbass carrot huggers.

6/23/2006 06:57:00 AM  
Blogger Syn Diesel said...

Hey don't pick on Mark ok?

6/23/2006 07:00:00 AM  
Blogger Syn Diesel said...

pau·ci·ty (pô'sĭ-tē)
n.
Smallness of number; fewness.
Scarcity; dearth: a paucity of natural resources.
[Middle English paucite, from Old French, from Latin paucitās, from paucus, few.]



paucity

noun

The condition or fact of being deficient: defect, deficiency, deficit, inadequacy, insufficiency, lack, poverty, scantiness, scantness, scarceness, scarcity, shortage, shortcoming, shortfall, underage1. See excess/insufficiency/enough.

6/23/2006 07:04:00 AM  
Blogger Syn Diesel said...

http://www.solariactionnetwork.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=11010#11010

"We have an impact on the earth. Whatever G-d created, G-d certainly wants to see what effect we have upon it it.


Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot and every American, White or Not, that lives on Indian Territory etc has been played out. Maybe G-d wants to see a global war? A global war today? That would be waged with nukes and bioweapons, something to end life; something to end a witness. I don't think G-d wants a dead rock. Or deaf trees. I think the WWIII of the present immoratilty during the present economic development is the Last War. Dead babies in Korea and Vietnam; bouncing babies in America and Europa. Africa as always forgotten. This was the Last War. A gradient. Horror matched by beauty. This horror still exists; the beauty as well. 3 BILLION don't have modern utilities. You do, you lot reading this. Those 3 BILLION could have modern utilities but you lot are buying it all up. With fake FED notes and corporate shares. What happens when they start using it to live like we do? Like they SHOULD AND COULD LIVE?

We're fucked. We are just as fucked futurewise as they are fucked today. Either the oil runs out or they start burning the oil for themselves. Then it runs out anyways after they start burning it themselves. fuck.


We're fucked. Did you miss that point? I don't care about 3 billion people, let alone 6 billion people, per se. I can only remember so many names. And most lives are dead soulless beings anyway. Yet even 3 billion people is a rather large number. If such a huge population of sentient beings can't get their act together then my interest is heightened. It's just so fucking in-my-face.

Why the fuck is there 3 BILLION people on the planet without basic utility services? If you can't answer that question you need to step back and admit YOU have a problem."


I want to kick anon's ass.

6/23/2006 07:34:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Syn Diesel - you have either lost your marbles or are piss-taking ... Whichever it is (and I suspect it's probably a mixture of both; semi-coherent incoherence usually is) please don't spew out your stuff on what is an otherwise very sincere and intelligent comments sheet.

6/23/2006 07:41:00 AM  
Blogger Syn Diesel said...

http://img108.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc188&image=18244_m.jpg

Kid sister brought home a boyfriend.

6/23/2006 07:45:00 AM  
Blogger Syn Diesel said...

"Sin" Diesel.

Kiss my ass fucktard. Still waiting for everyone to think this is a good idea.

6/23/2006 07:51:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Another Anon to Cindy Sill aka Sindiesel

(so that's it, you're in the closet and you wish you were like Vin?)

Now I see where the rage comes from...

you wrote :

"This jealous, imperfect dog is bat-shit nuts and it's still working through it's neurotic issues"

It's called PROJECTION Sindie.

Look in the mirror, bwoy, or whatever you is.

6/23/2006 07:52:00 AM  
Blogger Syn Diesel said...

You need to be stabbed in the neck.

6/23/2006 08:11:00 AM  
Blogger Syn Diesel said...

Anonymous said...
Another Anon to Cindy Sill aka Sindiesel

(so that's it, you're in the closet and you wish you were like Vin?)

Now I see where the rage comes from...

you wrote :

"This jealous, imperfect dog is bat-shit nuts and it's still working through it's neurotic issues"

It's called PROJECTION Sindie.

Look in the mirror, bwoy, or whatever you is.

----------------------



The above was written by an evil person which wanted to hurt us.

6/23/2006 08:15:00 AM  
Blogger Syn Diesel said...

I'll stab you with a pen btw. Asshole.

6/23/2006 08:23:00 AM  
Blogger Syn Diesel said...

Who is anonymous these days? You lot?

6/23/2006 08:25:00 AM  
Anonymous Shrubageddon said...

Sounder said...
Mulberry eater,

Owen Barfield said that the consensual representation is always wrong. An important observation, I think.



Interesting, that. I have thought and believe the same thing via my experiences, however, I don't have a fan club. Also, it's somewhat of a paradoxical statement in that it can ultimately lead you the conclusion that at any given time, something that was previously considered right can now be considered wrong merely because the consensus deems it right.

Applying this to the statement "the consensual representation is always wrong" leads to the conclusion that this statement itself would be wrong if the consensus believed it to be right.

I want out of this monkey cage. I'm sick and tired of the same old bananas.

6/23/2006 10:05:00 AM  
Blogger SMiles said...

Hi Jeff and all,

I am SOOOOO ECSTATIC to find RigInt Vrsn 2.0 !!!

I've been visiting the old page daily since the beginning of this month and just now found a link to the new version via 911blogger.com

I was even more amazed to note that the very first post birthed on Jeff's new alternative blog was done so ... ON MY BIRTHDAY!

I am so excited to have several new posts to read by Jeff now.

SMiles

6/23/2006 10:14:00 AM  
Anonymous Shrubageddon said...

I actually quite like Syn. He's Richard on Steroids, so please don't play Nurse Ratchet and attempt to have him lobotomized.

6/23/2006 10:42:00 AM  
Anonymous starroute said...

It may not be so much a matter of us tapping into a higher power as of allowing a higher power to tap into us.

As others on this thread have suggested, when we do that, miracles happen all around us.

To use one possible metaphor among many, we are conduits, channels for clear water. When we allow that water to flow through us freely, it renews the land and everything around us flowers. But if we block it up, try to use it for our own narrow purposes, or sell it on the black market, we become the river-stopping dragons of legend.

Perhaps we could all use to go read some classic Wasteland stories as we consider how to save the land. (And this time, don't be too embarrassed to ask the Fisher King what his problem is!)

6/23/2006 11:12:00 AM  
Anonymous Sally said...

Hi Syn Diesel - you made the comments way more interesting to read than usual.

Do you look like Vin? Let's go out on a date!

6/23/2006 11:14:00 AM  
Anonymous prunes said...

Applying this to the statement "the consensual representation is always wrong" leads to the conclusion that this statement itself would be wrong if the consensus believed it to be right.

I think the interpretation of the phrase could not remain constant and still become a consensual norm. Oblique symbols which point to the ineffable become increasingly reified and lose their original orientation as they gain currency.

Even between you and I, we are operating from different reference frames; we are interpreting the phrase well enough to communicate, but does anyone believe we understand it exactly the same way?

To get a consensus, we have to use a communication, to communicate we have to use a form, in this case the quoted phrase.

If a broad consensus believed the phrase to be "right", I have a strong feeling that the consensual interpretation would not be so close to how we are interpreting it now.

A (blasphemous?) example is the phrase "I am God." This is true, in a sense, we are not separate from the divine, but EVERY SINGLE ONE of those words is so problematic at this point that to forge a consensus as to the meaning of the phrase devoids the phrase of any real resonance!

By the time we have agreed upon what is indicated by "I", "am" (being), or "God", we have wandered so far afield from the original intent that we cannot avoid blasphemy, heresy, and (perhaps most crucially) inaccuracy. These words are so crusted over with centuries of connotation that they do not represent what they once did. For some, they represent the opposite, and we see Illuminist sects and magicians attempting to divinize themselves in the most absurd, tortured ways.

This process is apparently inexorable. Modern American Christianity bears almost no resemblance to the Christianity of even 500 years ago, and that bore little resemblance to pre-Nicean Christianity.

(Hope I didn't piss anyone off with this comment, not trying to be inflammatory, just trying to explore what the problem is, exactly)

6/23/2006 11:25:00 AM  
Anonymous Shrubageddon said...

(And this time, don't be too embarrassed to ask the Fisher King what his problem is!)


Straight up asking won't do. You'll never get the correct answer. Instead, you have to invite his snakes over for a drink and rub scales, so to speak. You must wear his boots without polishing them.

6/23/2006 11:27:00 AM  
Anonymous Shrubageddon said...

Prunes,

That makes sense. Essentially, in order to arrive at a consensus, the subject is so utterly morphed in intent and meaning, that it nary resembles the original concept. Not only that, but the morphed concept can mean different things to different people, even though they may agree, superficially, thus forming a false consensus. Therefore, the idea of a consensus is pure folly from because of the relativity of the concept's interpretation.

It's a connundrum, I tell you. No one's figured it out yet, as far as I can tell, and perhaps that's the point. You can't figure something so transmutable. In fact, the very notion of "figuring it out" is a futile perspective.

6/23/2006 11:41:00 AM  
Anonymous RollickHooper said...

"Paperless tigers." Heh, good one Jeff.

Speaking of DID, in my experience it seems alters arise, most commonly anyway, as a result of extreme trauma . . . as do mystical visions, and another thing I've noticed is that when an organism gets sick or injured there seem to be mechanisms in place that work to facilitate that organism's demise--you know, "go toward the light"--so, like, I think the illusion of the supernatural is a symptom of dysfunction or malfunction, and therefore a thing to be avoided.

6/23/2006 11:53:00 AM  
Blogger Mark said...

quote:

A constant question here is "Now that we know, what can we do?" It's entirely valid and the fact that it comes up so often is encouraging. However, it often seems to ultimately end in futilty as the structures around us are designed to keep us chasing the proverbial carrot while they switch to celery.

It seems like the best subject to constantly revist is how to change the system without being sucked in by it. Getting out of your house and telling what you know to the world seems like a good first step, but we're frustrated by the obvious lack of influence street protests have...


Some ideas here, in great detail:


Environmental sociologist Mark D. Whitaker is a comparative historical researcher on the politics of environmental degradation and sustainability. Toward A Bioregional State is his novel approach to development and to sustainability. He proposes that instead of sustainability being an issue of population scale, managerial economics, or technocratic planning, an overhaul of formal democratic institutions is required. This is because environmental degradation has more to do with the biased interactions of formal institutions and informal corruption. Because of corruption, we have environmental degradation. Current formal democratic institutions of states are forms of informal gatekeeping, and as such, intentionally maintain democracy as ecologically “out of sync”. He argues that we are unable to reach sustainability without a host of additional ecological checks and balances. These ecological checks and balances would demote corrupt uses of formal institutions by removing capacities for gatekeeping against democratic feedback. Sustainability is a politics that is already here—only waiting to be formally organized.

amazon.com longer review

blog

http://biostate.blogspot.com/

Bioregional democracy (or the Bioregional State) is a set of electoral reforms (and commodity reforms) designed to force the political process in a democracy to better represent concerns about the economy, the body, and environmental concerns (e.g., water quality), toward developmental paths that are locally prioritized and tailored to different areas for their own specific interests of sustainability and durability. This denotes democratic control of a natural commons and local jurisdictional dominance in any economic developmental path decisions--while not removing more generalized civil rights protections of a larger national state.

6/23/2006 12:39:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

More from the mulberry eater:

It's interesting to see that much discussion of the (alleged?) Barfield remark "the consensus representation is always wrong". I'm still not certain he actually said it, though that doesn't keep it from being worthwhile food for thought.

But what I really wanted to mention here was something different. It seems like a good time (after reading the previous post about bioregional democracy) to mention Rudolf Steiner's plan for a 3-fold social order. It's one of those things that strikes me as a very elegant solution. He takes the three concepts - liberty, equality, and fraternity - and applies each one to a different social sphere - culture/religion, law/politics, and economics. This results in equality before the law; freedom in religion, inner life, and culture; and a form of collective economics where each person's work yields benefits for others and others' work yields benefits for each individual.

This also means that economics and politics are not the arenas for maximum freedom, religion and politics are not mainly collectivist, and equality is not as strong in religion and economics.

6/23/2006 07:30:00 PM  
Blogger weeptes silu said...

THANK YOU JEFF WITH ALL MY HEART AND SOUL THANK YOU

6/24/2006 02:59:00 AM  
Anonymous jules said...

Wow, been away for 2 days and its war and peace in the comments.

"So why make the, wholly erroneous -- in my judgement, leap to "magic" as a solution?? This is, if you'll pardon the expression, nothing more than 'magical thinking', which even in its most esoteric forms is little more than wishful thinking with whopping doses of ego, anger, greed, lust, contempt, jealousy, envy (oops, that almost looks like the seven deadly sins) thrown on the heap.

Magic is morally corrupt. It is spiritual bullshit, and that's on a good day."

We have a different view on magic, obviously. I personally view the entire universe as magic and every thing that occurs in it as part of that. But thats my view.


"Perhaps the aboriginal's dog returned not because of "magic", but because of the love his human friend sustained for him.

Love, that is the one true magic in our world. And we need more of it."

Thats very true. the aboriginals dof, was actually a Western Quoll. It was his totemic animal, or one of them. Indigenous aboriginal australian cultures have totemic relationships with the whole of their world.

They use magic or perhaps the words "The power of Gods love" could be used instead of magic, as it might get the idea across better.

Ole matey's totemic animal was exitnct, yet because he continued his dances and ceremonies, involving a pure heart and love for all life, as I understand it, at the end of his life it was no longer extinct. Given species extinction is the greatest threat facing earth (not necessarily us humans, but the planet), perhaps some part of his story is worth taking on?

"If you choose "magic", and "white" or "black," "right hand" or "left hand," it is all ultimately the same, ie. the aggrandizement of ego, the inflation of the nafs, then you will "think you're in Heaven but you're living in Hell," to quote my old friend Robert Nesta Marley."

I am talking about something that is a fundamental part of being human. Like everything else about being human its how you use it that matters. Ultimately it comes down to knowing that everything you do has consequences, and the consequences of those actions are what matters.

If you are worried about magic, go outside and sing songs to nature, of something else to show your appreciation.

Personally, I think music is a form of magic, so I dunno how that sits with you.

But either way, this is just my opinion on the issue. Anyone that takes what I say for gospel needs even more soul development than me.

"Free will. It's not "anything you want", as someone said earlier in this post. It is a constant moral challenge, the consequences of which will be world shattering or world redeeming for us all."

Perhaps you are right. I dunno, but i feel humans have abilities that are far beyond what modern culture gives us credit for. Those abilities are what i talk about when I use the word magic.

Perhaps love is a better term.

"There is power in the Universe vastly vastly greater than anyone's individual or collective will, however it may be directed.

It is THAT power we must tap."

That is exactly what I am talking about.

That aspect of indigenous culture mentioned, about totems and that, its to do with that power.

Imagine the big bang as a metaphor, not a theory on the past. In that sense its part of the Westerns world dreaming or creation story.

So what is it, an enormous exposion of uncalculable energy. Through the complexity of creation that energy is channelled through myriad structures that ease it, balance it and temper its raw force. Out of that explosion of energy came all the best things we have experienced (and the worst).

The indig POV and the western one can almost come together here. The dreamtime is often thought of as the past, bt its actually sideways to time, an eternal archetypal wold maybe. I dunno. Thats the impression. That energy that caused the big bang is always churning away, just next door.

In sacred space, humans have the ability to invoke gods. This is not the One God or anything, (And God is a funny word, that divine Power that is to big for any one book. The word Splash, or Boing might be better cos its got less baggage and probably knows more about the subject than I do.).

So the upshot of this process is that in sacred spaces people make art based on the sacred relationship between life and what created it. This art is part of the process where the mad energy of creation can take a sane form that fits with the structure of life, and doesn't tear it apart.

By stepping into sacred space and allowing oneself to serve the sacred forces that keep life going, one takes part in creation. the indigenous peoples have a lineage that goes back to the creation spirits, and can trace their lineage all the way back, where the culture hasn't been destroyed or severly damaged.

This process was once an Australia wide process, but with the arrival of the whitefellas, it began to suffer, and in many places, ended.

Co incidently Australia has one of the highest rates of species extinction in the world, if not the highest.

Indigenous people i have spoken to don't say that it is magic. They say its religion.

Hmmm

Anyway mojo, thats a long rave, but I respect everything I have seen you post. You said on the snakes in the head post that every curer you ever met with any truth or integruty too them, all of them were serving that greater power.

I guess when I talk about this stuff its in the context of serving that power and thats all there is to it. It only works in that context. But the only real test of that is in your own heart. (And in the consequences of your actions or inactions).

After all when I die I look whatever in the face and will be responsible for all my actions, right or wrong.

I guess I am trying to say that what I am getting at won't work without a fundamental attitude that you seem to understand very well.

6/24/2006 09:36:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i saw jack schwartz in the early '70's, and i had forgotten about him completely until i saw him mentioned here. it was in missoula montana and i can't really remember the circumstances, but i DO remember fainting, or swooning momentarily, when i saw him push a skewer through his arm. his visit may have been in connection with a conference organized by a chiropractor who had been jailed (imprisoned, really) on what was probably a trumped-up charge of child molestation. while the chiropractor was in the state prison, he had some type of revelation which caused him to leave the Bahai religion and form what was apparently the FIRST splinter group off Bahai; i think the group he started was called Bahais of The Covenant. the original Bahais were very upset with Dr. Leland Jensen for splintering off from them, because apparently there was some type of prophecy about "end-times" when the Bahai religion splintered, or fragmented.

6/24/2006 11:24:00 PM  
Anonymous tal said...

here you go, Jules:

".. Occult vision shows us that the cause of the varieties of the animal species does not simply originate on the earth; rather does the animal species receive its forms from cosmic space, and indeed the forces which produce the one species come from a different part of cosmic space from that whence come the forces which produce another. The forces which construct the various animal forms, stream down upon our earth-planet from the other planets of our planetary system. We may actually divide the whole animal kingdom into six or seven principal groups, and these chief groups have the highest group-egos. These have the impulse for their activity in the six or seven principal planets belonging to our system; so that the forces which form the principal groups of the animals work down spiritually from the planets. In saying this we have at the same time given the concrete explanation of what is actually meant when we speak of group-egos of the animals. It means that in the animal dwell spiritual forces, belonging to beings not to be sought upon earth itself, but outside the earth in cosmic space, and indeed primarily in the planetary world.." R.Steiner 1912

6/25/2006 12:37:00 PM  
Anonymous jules said...

Cheers Tal

Interesting.

Indigenous people seem to map the sky onto the earth for ritual purposes, similar in fact to the idea behind Giza being built to mirror orion's belt.

Shades of as above so below.

6/25/2006 08:08:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"For example, how many focused minds willing it together would it take to turn the hearts and minds of Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld away from hatred and war?"

In 1967 about 50,000 people marched on the Pentagon, including a group of hippies that tried to exorcize the Pentagon. An idea of Abbie Hoffman, the plan was for people to sing and chant until it levitated and turned orange, driving out the evil spirits...

http://www.jofreeman.com/photos/Pentagon67.html

6/26/2006 02:48:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey Jules,

I don't know if you'll check back at this late date to read this, but I just read your reply/comment on my posting regarding magic.

Thank you for making such and effort to clarify what you were trying to convey on this subject.

I agree with almost everything you said, and I do not believe we have a different point of view, with perhaps one exception.

You wrote about sacred space, creativity, and the artist. If I understand what you wrote, I agree with that too. I would simply add that at some point the need for a separate "sacred" space falls away, with the realization that all space, all time, all of our consciousness is permeated by, breathed by, what may be called the "sacred". Nirvana is samsara, samsara is nirvana. It's closer than you to your jugular vein. If you step out of the sacred circle, you only think you are inhabiting mundane or profane space. It is still sacred. You have just let down your guard, or put one up, against it. Futilely, I might add, but perhaps not to your, or one's own, perception.

So I object to the use of the term "magic" as it is generally understood to mean ceremonial or ritual magic, or sympathetic magic, or sex magic, et cetera, because those practices intensify duality, harden the ego, and create a wall of separation even harder to breach, because such practices may give us the illusion they are doing precisely the opposite.

Further, it is an attempt to foist one's will on the world by covert, often illicit, means...to rig the game, or to game the system, to use a more current idiom. This always, in my experience, increases the worst aspects of the nafs or "ego", and takes us further away from the truly miraculous, the One, the tao, Wakan Tanka, boing or splash, choose your term, which I think you seem to be often semantically confounding with your use of the term "magic."

I hope you get to read this, and I thank you very much for your clarification.

Peace, my brother or sister, which every you may be.

~Mojo Filter

6/27/2006 04:45:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Imagine the pin in the stadium, with 50000 people trying to affect matter with their mind... then one person walks over to it and picks it up.

7/01/2006 09:52:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What I'm going to say is not intended to gain sympathy. Simply the way I've experienced it.

Throughout my childhood, I was beaten frequently and often by my parents. Beating someone was something they seemed driven to do. They beat each other up also. There was no rhyme or reason to their violence; no way to predict it, although it did sharpen up my intuition.

Ok. When you're beaten often and ferociously and live in constant fear, you develop tolerance and/or resistance to pain. From the age of about nine, I realised that after the first hit, it didn't matter. A sort of numbness sets in. Doesn't matter how much you're hit after that -- it's just a lot of noise and action, but you don't feel the pain. You can feel yourself being thrown or dragged about, but your mind must distance you from the abuse your body's taking.

I remember being thrashed by both my parents simultaneously when I was 17. I ended up prone on the floor, at which point my father sat on my chest, pinned my arms down with his knees and began punching me. My mother meanwhile, kicked any part of me she could reach, occasionally stooping to hit me in the face also.

While this was going on, I sensed something to my left. I succeeded in turning my head and saw my younger brother sagging against the wall. He appeared to be in shock: was pale, sweaty, hollow eyed. I was worried that the scene he was witnessing would do him permanent emotional damage, so I tried to tell him it was ok, by lifting my eyebrows, trying to smile reassurance to him, etc. I knew my parents would keep on with their violence until they were sated. There was no point my struggling, as this would only spur them to more extreme insanity. I just had to wait it out.

I managed to run away a day later. I traveled in a train all night. Next morning and 400 kilometres later, I was taken in by ex-neighbours. Two nights later, the police arrived. They said my parents had informed them I was a 'missing person'. My parents had demanded the police send me home. I declined to go. The police said in that case I needed to go with them to the police station to sign certain documents.

While I was there, the police asked me to undergo a physical examination. I was too young for it to occur to me to refuse. I was examined by a medical officer. Afterwards, the police asked me if I wanted to press charges against my parents. I declined. I was then informed I had several fractured/cracked ribs, broken nose, black eyes, loose teeth, fractured forearm and numerous other injuries. They suggested I allow them to take me to hospital. I declined as it wasn't necessary. I actually felt no pain at all, whether or not they believed that.

As is apparently often the case, my first boyfriend, with whom I remained for nine years, was also physically abusive. I don't remember feeling pain then, either. My main concern was usually in hiding/covering-up/denying evidence of the abuse so no-one would know. Perhaps this accounts for what I realise now was an astonishing recuperative ability.

Something that still puzzles me to this day is an event that occured shortly before that relationship ended. One night, mid-way through an abusive situation, I suddenly snapped. I said it out loud: 'I've had enough of this'. I leapt on the bed, tore off all my jewellery, tore out my one false tooth, kicked off my shoes -- basically stripped for battle, I suppose. It was unlike me to do such a thing because I was very insecure about my appearance.

Next I knew, I was standing over my boyfriend, who was literally cowering in a corner, with his hands raised to protect his head.

He was over six feet tall and all muscle. He was generally feared by most. I was five seven and 8.5 stone. I looked down at him and wondered what was wrong with him, all curled up in a fetal position on the floor with his arms over his head to protect himself. All that remained of his t-shirt was the knitted neck-band and the armband of each sleeve -- plus scraps of fabric joining all these together. The rest of his shirt was gone. His trunk and arms were red, his face was grey.

While I bent to collect my shoes and jewellery, etc., he bolted. He returned within the next day or so. For some reason I have no recollection of he and I ever discussing what had happened.

It's the only 'missing time' of which I'm aware. It frightened me at first, that I could 'lose' several minutes of time and the memory of what had occured during that time. But I've had no option but to accept it.

I have no idea who or what delivered to my boyfriend the thrashing he'd so obviously received. If a camera had filmed it, it would almost undoubtedly have shown 'me' delivering that beating. But I'm not at all sure 'I' was there at the time. I've speculated sometimes that a 'guardian angel' inhabited my body for those few minutes, in order to defend me and/or turn the tables on an abusive bully. At other times, I've pondered the possibility that we all have within us far more than the personality known as 'myself'. Perhaps the thing we term our 'mind' oversees multiple 'myselfs': all of whom inhabit different physical bodies. If so, perhaps the mind of which i am but a facet, injected a sibling personality into 'my' body for the few minutes it took to reduce a bully into a cowering wreck? Multiple personalities may in fact be similar to a share-house, where several personalities reside due to the basic vacancy created by a destroyed former personality?

Whatever the case, I know from experience that repeated physical/emotional trauma can cause insensitivity to pain.

These days, having been spared physical abuse for some decades now, I feel pain in the same way as anyone else.

7/06/2006 02:48:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As an afterthought, I would like to add that I am not convinced that we ARE fully responsible or accountable (in an 'afterlife') for our actions.

I feel the commonly cited 'karma' effect is overly simplistic.

Later in life, I discovered that both my parents had epilespy in their families, a couple of generations back. So that may well have influenced their personalities and predisposition to physical violence. I have a book somewhere, written by a US general practitioner: surname 'Alvarez'. Alvarez was an old fashioned GP who more than once was called to the death bed of someone whose birth he'd attended. He thus had the opportunity to observe several generations in various families. Being of enquiring mind, he reached the conclusion that many violent people, also those who became alcoholics, had epileptics as ancestors.

Alvarez discovered that if violent people, alcoholics and those suffering from a wide variety of neuroses were administered lowered doses of common epilepsy drugs, their symptoms vanished or decreased markedly.

As well, many of us inherit personality traits, such as rages, violence, moodiness, self-absorption, selfishness etc. Parents quite often note that their offspring share characteristics with older members of the family. It's not just anecdote.

So, if people inherit physical and emotional predisposition to certain types of behaviour, is it just to advise they will be held accountable for their actions after death?

In the Malachi Martin book entitled 'Hostage to the Devil', he recounts how spirits boasted that their victim (who went on to become a murderer, if I remember correctly) had been chosen by them to commit certain acts, even before he (the victim/murderer) was born. Loathsome though violent criminals are, would it be just if they were held accountable (both in life and after death)for their possibly predetermined actions -- actions determined by god, 'fate', spirits, etc?

Are all those who claim 'voices' made them commit foul acts, lying? I'm no longer convinced they are.

Further, Robert Monroe and others who've claimed to see into the reaches of the afterlife, have stated there is no 'punishment' for worldly acts, as is preached by various religions.

I have to be honest: I'd like to believe the good and the no-good receive what we believe is coming to them. I have a lot of difficulty dealing with child abuse/rape/murder. At the very least, I feel it would be fitting for the perpetrators to have to live again and be subjected to the fate they dealt their victims -- in order they would at least learn from it.

However, having experienced a number of highly accurate precognitive dreams, I have no option other than to accept that quite a bit of what unfolds has actually been decided previously by god-knows-what, be that 'fate' or 'god' or whatever. In which case, it seems clear that people are 'chosen' to commit certain acts ... just as certain acts are decreed by something about which we know nothing. Therefore, how in fairness can we hold them responsible?

And how in fairness can we congratulate ourselves on leading 'good' lives -- when our 'goodness' and another 'badness' may simply be a case of 'there but for the grace of god go I' ?

7/06/2006 03:28:00 PM  
Blogger jeffreyfrog said...

Did Jesus come to our earth solely to bring humankind in to Christ consciousness? And what about the air separation plants, have you heard about it?

3/28/2010 11:46:00 AM  
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7/19/2010 08:31:00 PM  
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7/19/2010 08:32:00 PM  

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