Wednesday, October 04, 2006

Slaughterhouse 5.0



Put your ear to the train tracks, put your ear to the ground
You ever feel like you're never alone
Even when there's nobody else around? - Bob Dylan


Once you admit mind control to your ambit of the real world, it's a different world. The worms won't go back in the can. No wonder the subject is usually given wide berth by critics of government and even many students of deep politics, notwithstanding documentation of government ambition, survivor testimony and dark history.

Reading the news begins to resemble a classic exercise in religious exegesis, with every schoolhouse massacre inviting the old question of free will or predestination. But the new lords of determinacy are not the gods of our fathers.

If our world includes programmed assassins, and has for at least 40 years, what programming can we say with confidence is both out-of-reach and ethically out-of-bounds for the programmers? If, say, the People's Temple of Naval Intelligence asset Jim Jones was a social experiment in mind control, then to what end? More pointedly, was it deemed a success? Should we expect a rollout of the supersized beta version? And how will we know when it's Jonestown Time?

Something just snaps, and unassuming men go to war on children with intent to molest and murder. "Troubled by a rash of school shootings," says Reuters, "President George W. Bush next week will bring together law enforcement authorities and education officials to try to determine what the federal government can do to stop the problem."

We should always admit the reality of random acts (or perhaps rather, fractally speaking, the appearance of random acts), but violence serves the violent, and cui bono? is always a valid question so long as we keep our ears to the train tracks.





By the way
, here's some other news that strikes me as somewhat important:

Antimatter discovery could alter physics
Particle tracked between real world, spooky realm

The discovery that a bizarre particle travels between the real world of matter and the spooky realm of antimatter 3 trillion times a second may open the door to a new era of physics, Fermilab researchers announced Monday.

The incredibly rapid commuting rate of the B sub s meson particle had been predicted by the Standard Model, the successful but incomplete theory aimed at explaining how matter and energy interact to form the visible universe. After 20 years of trying, scientists have now confirmed the rate, providing strong evidence for the theory.


158 Comments:

Anonymous Oarwell said...

Jeff, are you speculating that the Amish shooter was a mind-controlled assassin? On what evidence? Some of us out here still like to see at least a little evidence.

Typo alert: (sorry, morning coffee) it's exegesis.

3 trillion times a second. That approaches the rate at which this White House changed the reasons for invading Iraq.
Perhaps they are Mesons, and we didn't know it. (I know, bad pun)

10/04/2006 07:42:00 AM  
Anonymous Oarwell said...

Another sip. Aah.

It's "cui bono."

Wikipedia: qui bono "who with good" Common nonsensical Dog Latin misrendering of the Latin phrase cui bono ("who benefits?").

I'll go to work now.

10/04/2006 07:45:00 AM  
Blogger Sounder said...

More emotional engineering.

Only a new system for understanding can provide the broad based antidote to this creeping sickness.

10/04/2006 07:50:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

From that Deseret News article:

The discovery comes at a time when the future of Fermilab, located near Batavia, Ill., is in doubt. Its huge 4-mile circular Tevatron particle accelerator may be forced to close...

Hmm. I think science should be about replication. If no one else can verify this yet, much less have the technology, a media eye news story about it seems rather premature? It seems well timed to assure that funding continues, merely. I'd be for that, though that's hardly my point if they are just making some things up...would be interesting for a mechanism for quantum universe based astral planing though?


And another thing.

I've read that the "Jim Jones" thing was indeed a CIA operation, though one that went sour and they wanted to remove all the 'subjects' quickly. There's a chapter in David McGowan's book Programmed to Kill: The Politics of Serial Murder on the whole set up.

Jonestown people didn't die of the (Mockingbird-conveinent) story of "self-administered poison punch, how sad" by the way... They were all shot mostly.

10/04/2006 07:52:00 AM  
Blogger Jeff said...

Appreciate the typo alerts, oarwell. My spelling really suffers at that hour.

Not speculating as such. Just suggesting that the fact of mind control throws a wrench in the interpretation of seemingly random acts of violence.

10/04/2006 07:58:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If the purpose is to "dehumanize" us all then first we are made complicit.
The Amish shooter appears to heve been "blaming" his future potential victims (the young girls he s/elected to kill rather than molest).
They made us bomb them kill them torture them ...seems to be the GOP line .
You are either for this or you are with "the terrorists".
Just as the catholic priest cover-up appears to be based on blaming the victim for suborning the "good" priest to do evil deeds.
Guantanomo may be shut down as it has served it's purpose of temporary curtain before revealing the worse horrors of extraordinary rendition, secret prisons and water-boarding. We were taken step by step to discover that these things were being done.

10/04/2006 08:16:00 AM  
Blogger sunny said...

mind control throws a wrench in the interpretation of seemingly random acts of violence.

Thanks to you, Jeff, I now question ALL violent incidents, especially school shootings. Every one of them, from Columbine on, are rife with suspicious characters who "unwittingly" help the elites push dark agendas. That cannot be a coincidence.

Or am I so far down the rabbit hole I need some light and fresh air?

10/04/2006 09:20:00 AM  
Anonymous chillin said...

A bit of fresh air and sunshine wouldn't hurt.

BTW, does anyone have the slightest clue of what 'the spooky realm of anti-matter' is supposed to be? In my mind anti-matter is something that you power a ship or fuel a catastrophic explosion.

10/04/2006 09:41:00 AM  
Anonymous Thrace said...

I'm more than happy to speculate that the Amish school shooting incident was an episode of mind control. I base that assumption on these questions: Since when does a youthful man, seemingly in the middle of a very normal, lower middleclass life, suddenly become a cruel child killer?
The killer of Amish kids, Roberts, had no Amish background, and no real connection with the community. So how does he just come out of nowhere to commit this heinous crime? Police say he came equiped with weapon, ties to bind the kids, and even toilet paper. This was clearly premeditated. Police say he'd been planning this. How is that possibly random?
Since Roberts doesn't seem to have a record of psychotic or criminal behavior, one must again ask, where does this come from?
Now, another and I think, pivotal question; cui bono? As we've said- who benifits? Answer: those who want to create chaos, havoc and fear. Fear among the entire population watching the horrible spectacle. I'm personally betting Roberts has a military background ( however brief it might be) Just two more brief points.
Robert's crime is terribly similar to the shooting of just a few days before, on September the 27th in Baliey Colorado. In that case, a 50 year old gunman entered the school and took students hostage. Waited for police to arrive, then killed a student, and them himself.
Here's the weird part- In both cases, the gunmen seperated the boys from the girls. The gunmen allowed the boys to leave, and made the girls stay. The gunman in Colorado sexually assualted some of the women. The gunman in Pennsylvania said he hoped to do so.
Neither gunman knew anyone at the schools, or were connected in any way with the school. Both gunmen were at or approaching middle age. Both gunmen killed the girls for no reason. Both gunmen took thier own lives. I guess we won't get a chance to interrogate them, will we? BTW, so-called Manchurian Candidates are said to end their escapades either by taking thier own lives, or turning themselves in. In this case the men chose the deadlier option. Both men chose to commit thier crimes on days which may have occult numerology themes. The Colorado assailant commited his crimes on 9/27/06. 27 is the same as 9+9+9 or 999. Upside down renders that as 666. The Pennsylvania gunman commited his crimes on 10/02/06. add those numbers together, and you get the sum of 18. 18 is of course, 3x6, or 666. This may seem fanciful to those who don't pay attention to occult numerology. But commiting these crimes on 'just any day' will NOT yeild those kinds of results. There's more. The Colorado shooter was careful to choose 6 girls to kill (sacrifice?) The shooter in Pennsylvania is said to have been planning his crimes for 6 days. I'm sure the pattern goes deeper still, if we care to look.
I feel certain that these men were sent, either willingly or not, to commit these crimes, using specific methods, on specific days, to achieve a certain effect. Occultists who plan such activities are VERY particular about how they do things. I think the patterns here are very revealing. These dirty tricks aren't new, but they can be effective, especially on a population who doesn't quite know what they're looking for. Remember the old maxim: Kill a few, terrorize many.

Thrace

10/04/2006 09:55:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Did the Amish shooter have any experience in the armed forces? I'm reminded of the DC Sniper(s), and I know the older one was a former soldier. To me, programming and testing out stuff only works with a captive audience you can track for an extended period of time, access their medical records, etc. Some years ago in Austin, Texas there was a rash of strange chemical almost-attacks, one when two campus cops pulled over a car some distance off campus (?!?), and they thought some chemical agent was gassing them from the trunk. There were helicopters and haz-mat suits closing down a section of a major thoroughfare in town, but that story died immediately . Within a week, another strange incident occurred when half a police substation in town got sick from a strange chemical smell. Same thing: that story disappeared a day later. It's a strange world out there.

10/04/2006 09:58:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

While we're speculating - my first thought was "I wonder if the guy had an undiscovered brain tumor?" They can cause radical personality shifts and obsessive behavior.

10/04/2006 10:11:00 AM  
Blogger ericswan said...

Speaking Manchurian I have to wonder what medication these guys are using.

10/04/2006 10:16:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Foley is unrepentant...

Former Rep. Mark Foley, under investigation for sending lurid Internet messages to young male Capitol Hill pages, issued a series of revelations from rehab, including a claim that he had been sexually abused as a teen.

Attorney David Roth, speaking on Foley's behalf at a Florida news conference Tuesday, said Foley was molested between ages 13 and 15 by a clergyman. He declined to identify the clergyman or the church, but Foley is Roman Catholic.

"Mark does not blame the trauma he sustained as a young adolescent for his totally inappropriate" e-mails and instant messages, Roth said. "He continues to offer no excuse whatsoever for his conduct."

10/04/2006 10:19:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

FERMILABS NEUTRINOS

There is a sub-atomic particle, discovered in 1956, called the neutrino. This particle, because of its extremely tiny size, and elusive behavior is difficult for scientists to study. The missing 9/10ths of the universe is thought to be comprised of neutrinos and neutrino-like particles. Although neutrinos have mass, they pass right through physical matter. It has been estimated that a neutrino from the sun would stand a good chance of penetrating a thickness of lead stretching from Earth to the nearest star without colliding with anything.

10/04/2006 10:23:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Paving the way to the 21st century

Fermilab produced its first high-energy particle beam on March 1, 1972. Since then hundreds of experiments have used Fermilab's accelerators to study matter at ever smaller scales. Here an overview of the top ten achievements so far.

Discovery of the top quark
On March 2, 1995, physicists at Fermilab's CDF and DZero experiments announced the discovery of the top quark, the last undiscovered quark of the six predicted to exist by current scientific theory. Scientists worldwide had sought the top quark since the discovery of the bottom quark at Fermilab in 1977. Physicists discovered the top, as heavy as an entire gold atom but much smaller than a single proton, using particle beams from the Tevatron, the world's highest energy particle accelerator. Details

Discovery of the bottom quark and subsequent studies of its properties
Physicists at Fermilab's E288 collaboration, led by Nobel laureate Leon Lederman, announced the discovery of a new particle named the upsilon on June 30, 1977. The experimenters showed that the upsilon particle contains a bottom quark and an anti-bottom quark: Thus, the third generation of quarks was revealed. Details

Determination of top quark and W boson masses to high precision
Particle physicists measure particle masses to verify the correctness and accuracy of their particle models. Knowing the value of the top quark mass to high precision has allowed physicists to zero in on the mass of the undiscovered Higgs boson, a crucial component of the theoretical framework of particle physics.

Observation of direct CP violation in kaon decays
On February 24, 1999, physicists from Fermilab's KTeV collaboration announced results establishing the existence of direct CP violation in the decay of kaons (particles containing a strange quark). The observation is a significant step in understanding why the universe displays an abundance of matter, while antimatter disappeared at an early stage in the evolution of the universe. Details

Precise measurement of the lifetimes of charm particles
The charm quark, the fourth quark of the Standard Model, is much heavier than the first three quarks. Studying the production and decay mechanisms of charm particles when produced in proton-antiproton collisions proved to be crucial in understanding the forces between quarks and how quarks combine to form composite particles. Details

First direct evidence for the tau neutrino
On July 21, 2000, scientists at Fermilab announced the first direct evidence for the tau neutrino, the third kind of neutrino known to particle physicists. Although earlier experiments had produced convincing indirect evidence for the particle's existence, no one had directly observed the interaction of a tau neutrino with matter. Tau neutrinos are massless or almost massless particles that carry no electric charge and barely interact with surrounding matter, making an observation extremely difficult. With the tau neutrino observation, three of the four particles of the third generation of the Standard Model were discovered at Fermilab: the bottom quark, the top quark and then the tau neutrino. Details

Mapping the structure of protons and neutrons using neutrino beams
Using neutrino beams has proved a unique and fruitful method of studying the structure of matter at the smallest scales possible. Since neutrinos have no electric charge, they can probe quarks, the building blocks of protons and neutrons, via weak interactions, complementing decades of studies based on electromagnetic interactions. A long series of experiments at Fermilab and other high-energy laboratories has carefully mapped the composition of protons, antiprotons and neutrons. Details

Measurement of the magnetic moments of particles containing strange quarks
Hyperons, subatomic relatives of the proton, are like tiny magnets that live less than a billionth of a second. From 1975 to 1985, precision experiments at Fermilab measured their magnetic strengths and clearly showed that hyperons are made of quarks, a major contribution to formulating the theoretical framework called the Standard Model. Details

Discovery of a quasar at a distance of 27 billion light years
On April 13, 2000, scientists of the Sloan Digital Sky Survey announced the observation of the most distant object ever observed, a quasar at a red shift of 5.8, a distance of 27 billion light years from Earth. The SDSS collaboration will ultimately survey 10,000 square degrees, or one quarter of the sky, and 200 million celestial objects. Fermilab scientists are involved in managing and analyzing this large amount of data. These astrophysical studies complement Fermilab's quest to understand the structure and evolution of the universe. Details

Calculation of the strong coupling constant using supercomputers
Quarks interact via the strong force. Many properties of this short-range force are calculable only with the aid of the large-scale numerical calculations of lattice gauge theory. Using powerful supercomputers, the Fermilab lattice gauge theory group performed the first accurate determination of the "strong coupling constant," the characteristic strength describing this force. The calculation presented one of the first accurate lattice determinations of any fundamental parameter of the standard model.

10/04/2006 10:31:00 AM  
Anonymous Mesh Hugger said...

Some interesting things you pointed out there thrace. I think based on those facts it wouldn't be speculation at all to say it was 'mind-control' subjects perpetrating these crimes. Why? Two words come to mind: Psychological Warfare

There's a chapter in Peter Levenda's first Sinister Forces book on how psy-ops that explains how psy-ops were used against populations that would do well to explain thi... i'll see if i can dig it up later.

Another possibility as to why may be simply to test their subjects and methods to see if they work before putting to 'better' uses. There's also a part in Sinister Forces about mind-control subject Candy Jones that says she (her alter) was sent to Taiwan to deliver a message, where she was then tortured and then set free. Levenda writes that the US had deals with foreign agencies to have them put their subjects to the test to see if their programming would stick in a real world situation.

The occultic dates is the icing on the cake.

10/04/2006 10:33:00 AM  
Anonymous prunes said...

You want to hear something bone-chilling? Listen to this interview with torture-enabling lawyer John Yoo:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6190108

10/04/2006 10:35:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

LUBRICATING JELLY also among the Supplies


Roberts apparently remembered molesting two relatives 20 years ago and dreamed about molesting again. Police raised the possibility that Roberts, who brought lubricating jelly with him, may have been planning to sexually assault the girls.

10/04/2006 10:36:00 AM  
Anonymous Billy Shears said...

Numerology. Ha.

Today is 10/03/06. 10 times 3 is 30, which is also 5 times 6, or 66666. Put that together with the "number" of this year and you get 666 666. Spooky.

What weird occultic event will happen today? Actually, it will have to be doubly evil today since it is 2 666's.

You can pretty much take any date and any set of numbers and massage them enough to extract what you think is something significant.

Mind control by the CIA? Sure, I can accept that as a possiblilty because I am familiar with the history of MK ULTRA and other things. But numerology is sheer quackery.

10/04/2006 10:53:00 AM  
Anonymous Checkonetwo said...

Random acts of violence are one thing but someone seems to want us all reminded of the fact that there are far more evil acts (and people) than a little waterboarding at a secret prison. So shut up and look over there and would somebody please think of the children.

All this talk of neutrinos got me thinking about a visit from Stephen Hawking to my city a few years ago. I hadn't thought of it until now, and I'm a little creeped out to discover this going on beneath my feet.

10/04/2006 10:57:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Illuminati are manipulating technology, language, ritualistic activity, subliminal awareness, fear, lust, human vulnerabilities, and conflicts. These manipulations are external deceptions, which help cover up their trauma-based mind control. They use the best covers as fronts. They use fiction, the best of religious fronts, travelling entertainment fronts, and the cover of national defense. They use deflection, blinds, slides, Hegelian dialectics, deniability, and esoteric language. They use agent provocateurs, “clean agents”, “legends”, and safe houses. The Illuminati have refined the art of deception far beyond what the common man has imagined.

10/04/2006 10:58:00 AM  
Anonymous Oarwell said...

To Thrace and others:

I find myself frequently asking who benefits, but realize that sometimes the answer is, "no one."

In Albany, New York, about 4 years ago, a well-regarded pediatric specialist was accused of molestation by multiple children and parents. Some of the actions described were so bizarre I will not repeat them, even on this board. He was tried, convicted, and is now serving multiple life terms in prison.

Mind control? No, just a major screw loose in this doctor's head. Who benefited? Certainly not the kids, or the doctor, or his own children, or the community. I'm sure the investigators didn't benefit from being confronted with this guy's sick perversions.

In short, NOBODY benefited, unless you want to name preternatural forces, which I think begs the question. Sometimes awful things just happen.

In criminal investigations, "who benefits" is the first thing that should be asked. Who has motive?
But unless more info comes out in the Amish schoolhouse tragedy, it sounds like the killer was a ticking time bomb who got set off by the recent Colorado killings.

An actual lone nut. In contradistinction to Oswald.

10/04/2006 11:04:00 AM  
Anonymous Billy Shears said...

OK, so I guess I should've peeled away yesterday's page from the day-calendar.... Today is not 10/3/06, as I am sure everyone (even me, now) is aware.

But my point still stands. Numerology is horseshit.

10/04/2006 11:19:00 AM  
Anonymous A. Magnus said...

Oarwell, there is clearly a benificiary for all these supposed random shootings: the government itself!

Connect the dots here - Bush's rubber stamp congress just passes HR 6166, which is an updated version of Hitler's Ennabling Act; now non-violent dissidents can be locked up without charge or habeas corpus rights.

Halliburton was awarded a $400 million contract to construct detention facilities across the country a few months back.

Over 70% of all the votes in this country are tabulated by electronic voting machines that leave no paper trail.

The only thing standing in the way of a complete dictatorship is the amount of private arms owned by the people themselves.

These shootings are timed to create a 'useful wave of indignation' designed to justify ramrodding a bill through congress to register all private firearms or provide the pretext for confiscating them altogether. The first dry run for this was during the aftermath of Katrina in New Orleans.

10/04/2006 11:40:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree with the sentiment on this thread: there's something a little wrong about the Amish shooter story. On the (bs) TV news they're so keen to say he was a one-time child molester and therefore it means he winds up killing little girls. There's an inferred causality that panders to the non-thinkers but has little basis in pyschological 'reality'.

The tragic events were a pre-planned cruel execution - where does a human being get these ideas? 10% of me thinks this may be the Oct surprise.

10/04/2006 11:44:00 AM  
Blogger Sherri said...

This is a timely piece for me, Jeff, since I've been feeling just as sunny (above) has. Is it possible that I am getting paranoid?!?

Possibly.

But some things just don't add up - either that or I'm incredibly naive. I don't buy the motive story they've given us about this guy in the Amish shootings. Remorse-revenge?? What?

I don't buy the timing of the events as reported, either. The guy had time to bring in his hostage-taking supplies including a good deal of heavy lumber, dismiss some people, tie up the girls, barricade the doors, and make a call?

I was puzzled by what I saw versus what I was hearing. The helicopter shots early on were concentrating on the field outside of the schoolhouse (I think it was a baseball diamond) There appeared to be a lot of debris - like a laundry bag had been emptied and tossed around - and I assumed the largest mass - white and shaped like a pot-sticker - was a body covered up. On the baseball field were two or three distinctly dark patches, which I assumed (again, from the camera's insistence on focusing on them and the story of a slaughter) were blood.

Other points - at first they were saying that the man had a driver.. then they said one of the men was 70 or 80 years old. I know details are sketchy at first.. but ...

I don't know, something smells here.

10/04/2006 11:52:00 AM  
Anonymous Almost Lost My Cornflakes said...

Useful Idiot Moonies Slated to Run UN?

The Unification Church, the global enterprise of South Korean Rev. Sun Myung Moon (born Yong Myung Moon), may be attempting to take control of the United Nations through the all-but-certain election of South Korean Foreign Minister Ban Ki-moon as UN Secretary General. Foreign Minister Moon is slated to be formally elected Secretary General on October 9 by the UN Security Council. Moon has already won four straw polls by the UN Security Council and is now considered a shoo-in to replace Kofi Annan.

Some informed UN sources are concerned that Moon lists his religious affiliation as "non-denominational Christian," a code word often used by the "Moonies" for the Unification Church.

In addition, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and UN ambassador John Bolton are attempting to have former Washington Times editor Josette Sheeran Shiner become the next Executive Director of the World Food Program. Sheeran Shiner is a member of Sun Myung Moon's Unification Church. The term of the World Food Program Executive Director is five years. Shiner is currently the Under Secretary of State for Economic, Business and Agricultural Affairs.

Although Ban Ki-moon and Sun Myung Moon are not related, some UN members may sense that there is something amiss about the Bush administration's strong support for the South Korean Foreign Minister given the close links between some Bush officials and the "Moonies." There were a few "discourage" and "no opinion" ballots cast by Security Council members on Ban Ki-moon. Although the balloting is secret, it is believed that France and the United Kingdom are not thrilled with the Moon nomination and that Japan, a non-permanent member that holds the Security Council presidency for October, is also reportedly opposed to Moon.

Ban Ki-moon has lived in the United States for a number of years, having gone to graduate school at Harvard and serving two tours at South Korea's Washington embassy, a diplomatic mission that maintains close contacts with the Sun Myung Moon organization in Washington, DC. The Unification Church, in addition to owning the Washington Times, also owns United Press International.

Sun Mying Moon, who was excommunicated by the Korean Presbyterian church for preaching heresy, claims he is the Messiah and intends to take control of the world. The South Korean government, which has close ties with Sun Myung Moon's organization, has used its considerable public relations machinery to convince the Security Council members to elect Ban Ki-moon as the next Secretary General. Only a veto by one of the four other permanent members -- France, United Kingdom, Russia, or China -- can derail the possibility of a Unification Church ally from becoming the next UN Secretary General.

Same guys who travel with Marvin Bush and with GHW Bush bought the largest aquifer in the world down by Foz de Iguacu in Brasil.

Now tap your ruby slippers together three times and say, "There's no illuminati. There's no illuminati. There's no illuminati."

10/04/2006 12:05:00 PM  
Anonymous Billy Shears said...

To A. Magnus:

While I completely agree w/ you that the actions and events of (at least) the past five years are designed to slowly take away whatever rights existed and institute a facsist state, I really dont see how the government, controlled by the GOP (with the Dems playing the role of silently-enabling hood ornament) will be able to round up and effectively take away their own supporters guns.

That, in my mind, will be what finally wakes the people up: attempts to infringe upon their 2nd Amendment rights, which, lets face it, is the only right most Uh-merkins cherish.

But, then again, perhaps its all in the delivery. A few more school shootings and terrist attacks may scare the masses into giving up the only right they really care about.

Time will tell. I, for one, am keeping my gun no matter what.

10/04/2006 12:12:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

A short interlude from the sex, sex, blood & sex.

"UPDATE: Note from Robert's friend, Denis Berry: Sadly, we have to report that wizard-author-intelligence increase agent is in trouble with his life, home and his finances. Robert is dying at his home from post polio syndrome. He has enough money for next months rent and after that, will be unable to pay. He cannot walk, has a hard time talking and swallowing, is extremely frail and needs full time care that is being provided by several friends-fans-volunteers and family. We appeal to you to help financially for the next few months to let him die at his home in peace. "

****************************************

"Note from Robert's friend, Denis Berry: Robert's writing has enlightened-educated many and if you can please commit to help pay a portion of his expenses until his passing which sadly won't be that long. Monthly contributions of $50.00 or more will be greatly appreciated. All monies will go directly to Robert and can be sent to his PayPal address olgaceline@gmail.com. You can also send a check to RAW c/o Futique Trust, P.O. Box 3561, Santa Cruz, Ca 95063."

10/04/2006 12:37:00 PM  
Anonymous marmot said...

Jeff, i've been a reading you faithfully for some time now, and you never cease to amaze me with your insights and brilliant ways of putting things---like today's: "But the new lords of determinacy are not the gods of our fathers."

Don't stop writing! I know of no one out there like you. You're absolutely amazing. Thank you.

10/04/2006 12:44:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

" Thrace said...

I'm more than happy to speculate that the Amish school shooting incident was an episode of mind control. I base that assumption on these questions: Since when does a youthful man, seemingly in the middle of a very normal, lower middleclass life, suddenly become a cruel child killer?
The killer of Amish kids, Roberts, had no Amish background, and no real connection with the community. So how does he just come out of nowhere to commit this heinous crime?"

I tend to agree with Thrace.

The primary reason I think is to continue to programme most people. The last big programme hit was in the air scare in July. Flights from Canada to Britain still mean: no carried on books; eye-glasses, but no case; liquid and goop bans. People accepted it, continue to accept it, compromising their common sense and right to argue with authority with the utilitarian - well, I have to take that plane. What else am I going to do about it.

Go after kids is the quickest way to get a point across; go after little girls, and it's even more of an emotional short-circuit around thinking and reasoning and questioning.

How else can you possibly instill an irrational panic of 'it can happen anywhere...protect us' than to go after a group that is so completely removed from our daily lives like the Amish are.

Evoked response: "IF it can happen to those people, well, my Phil and Sally are at risk!"

Of course CNN now has another bogus Security product to promote and devote resources to - keeping your kids safe at school.

I expect a major rash of even newer, more illogical security arrangements at schools now - also a social progamming achievement, to get the next generations acclimatized and accepting of intrusive, illogical security restrictions.

I don't expect much to come squeeking out about the killer's background, other than what they want.

Oh, and the current 'molestation' meme floating around the ether...anyone else sickened by the foxes in charge of the henhouse using this to extract more from us?

10/04/2006 12:48:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

From Loren Coleman:

Predicted: More Copycat School Shootings
by Loren Coleman, MSW

I am a suicide prevention and school violence researcher and consultant, as well the author of Suicide Cluster (1987) and The Copycat Effect (2004). Unfortunately, it has been a busy two weeks for me, as besides workshops that have touched on this matter, I have been interviewed by CTV and CBC, appearing on Canadian television. Of course, television is one way to present this material, but it does not allow for the fuller extension of insights through the written word of the online and print media.

Therefore, I want to share what I am seeing, what I project as forthcoming in the next month, October 2006. I've been saying most of this on radio interviews and in suicide trainings for weeks. No one seems to be listening. Nevertheless, readers may wish to know about the patterns that are so obviously developing.

In talking about the copycat effect in media interviews, I've been noting a developing and coming wave of events for this autumn of 2006, due to the following facts...based on the trends and analyses I've written about in The Copycat Effect (NY: Simon and Schuster, 2004).

Here is what I am finding:
* Most contemporary school shootings tend to occur primarily during two periods of the school year - at the beginning (late Aug through October) and near the the end of the academic year (March-April)...
* Copycats follow a regular temporal pattern that repeats - these could be after a primary media event in a day, a week, two weeks, a month, a year, ten years - vulnerable humans have internal media clocks...
* Copycats imitate the previous violent attacks, oftentimes down to specific details as that mirror the previous specifics of the shooter, the victims, and the methods -
* "Celebrity" events have a far-reaching impact and modeling effect - so, of course, Columbine serves as a dark cloud over many school shootings.


One of the silliest things I have heard from cable news in the last several days during mid-September 2006, is that "these school shootings aren't like the other school shootings." This is short-sighted, and factually untrue.

Before the current model (post-1996) in which a member of the student body would go into their own school and kill fellow students, the pattern was one of outsiders - often adults - going into schools and killing students. In my book, I discuss some of the more infamous cases (on pages 166-167, and in a long list in my appendix, following page 263).

Every year is different, and a fresh view must be considered based upon observations that are right in front of our eyes. What I do at the beginning of a new school year is to see if there is an emerging pattern that will be the re-worked "copycat" model for the new school year. To me, it was and is obvious where we were going this year.

Here's what I see...a mix of outsiders invading school and students making plans too:

Thursday, August 24, 2006 - Essex, Vermont - two dead (two teachers) - three wounded (two teachers, plus the shooter who turned the gun on himself) - the shooter was a male, all victims were female. Christopher Williams, 26, of Essex, attempted to kill his former girlfriend, first-grade schoolteacher Andrea Lambesis. The dead was Lambesis' mother, Linda, 57, the first victim, and veteran Essex Elementary School second-grade teacher Alicia Shanks, 56, of Essex, slain in her classroom at the school at about 2 p.m.

Wednesday, August 29, 2006 - Hillsborough, NC - one dead (father of teenage shooter) - two wounded (two students) - shooter showed up in a trench coat, with guns, pipe bombs, in a copycat of Columbine - Asked by police why he went to Orange High School, Alvaro Rafael Castillo, 19, responded: "Columbine. Remember Columbine."

Thursday, September 7, 2006 - Paris, France - A 19-year-old man was detained after opening fire with a shot-pistol at a school in Paris. There were no injuries. No other details available.

Friday, September 8, 2006 - Paris, France - A 16-year-old boy fired a shotgun inside a school in the southern outskirts of Paris, lightly injuring a teacher and a student, said police. No other details available.

Wednesday, September 13, 2006 - Montreal, Quebec - Based on the pattern I see behind this shooting, Quebec was a logical next location (near Vermont and French-linked). Kimveer Gill, the 25-year-old shooter, a self-described atheist Goth with an Indian Sikh heritage, wearing a trenchcoat, dark clothing, and a Mohawk haircut, came to Dawson College, fully armed. He appeared to target what students call the "Jew Caf" and opened fire, killing Anastasia de Sousa, 18, and wounded 19 other students. Police fired upon him, and then Gill turned the gun on himself. Gill was obsessed by the Columbine massacre. He mentioned online being a fan of several computer games (e.g. Super Columbine Massacre) and movies (e.g. Natural Born Killers, Matrix) with violent themes that have been played out in several school shootings.

Thursday, September 14, 2006 - Green Bay, Wisconsin - Matt Atkinson, a 17-year-old senior, told an associate principal at Green Bay East High School on the day after the Montreal college shooting that a Columbine-like plot was being planned by two teens. It was said to be a "suicide-by-cop" plot. Police arrested the boys and then found sawed-off shotguns, automatic weapons, pistols, ammunition, several bombs, bomb-making materials, camouflage clothing, helmets, gas masks, and suicide notes. Brown County District Attorney John Zakowski said: "This was a Columbine waiting to happen."

Thursday, September 21, 2006 - Montgomery, Alabama - Former student Willie Beamon, 18, told a female student his plans to go Robert E. Lee High school to start shooting. The girl notified the police of what she had been told. Beamon was arrested at the Second Chance School he was attending after he had been expelled from Robert E Lee High School.

Wednesday, September 27, 2006 - Bailey, Colorado (39 miles from Columbine) - Duane R. Morrison, 54, (DOB 7-23-1953) walked into an English classroom at Platte Canyon High School, and took six young female students hostage. After releasing four hostages, one at a time, the students told the police that sexual assaults were occurring. As the situation neared a 4 pm deadline and discussions broke down, a police SWAT team blew open the door to Room 206 with explosives. Morrison fired a handgun at entering SWAT officers, and then at 16-year old Emily Keyes, fatally wounding her. The gunman then killed himself. The last hostage was saved. (A suicide note from the shooter was found on September 28th.)

Friday, September 29, 2006 - Cazenovia, Wisconsin - A recently expelled student Eric Hainstock, 15, arrived at school at 8 am with a shotgun. A custodian, teacher, and students wrestled the shotgun away, but the student broke away and pulled out a revolver. Principal John Klang, 49, was then shot with a handgun, three times, once in the head. Klang later died at the hospital. The shooter is taken into custody.

Updated: Monday, October 2, 2006 - Lancaster County, Pennsylvania - Charles Carl Roberts, 32, entered a one-room Amish school (attended by only 27 students) at 10:36 am. He told the boys and adult females to leave. He took as hostages all the females, reportedly ten children and one very young teacher's aide. Then, he began shooting all of the girls, killing four, including the teacher's aide. Roberts is said to have died by suicide. Police say he left behind suicide notes for his wife and children; he told his wife this was revenge against females for something that happened to him 20 years ago (when he was 12 years old).

---

Please note that the lone male "outsider shooter" is a common denominator here, as well as most of the victims being females. Also, there exists a clear and concentrated repeating pattern of Wednesdays and/or Thursdays, since August 24th.

PREDICTIONS
I would watch Wednesday, October 11 (four weeks exactly) through Friday, October 13 (the month-by-date) anniversary period, a "month" from the Dawson College shootings, as a dangerous "hot window" for a next wave of school shootings. A month from the Colorado-Wisconsin events of September 27-29, at the end of October, should also be a time in which people must keep their guard up and on high alert.

In general, of course, we seem to now be in an unfortunate high copycat effect pattern, and it could be a deadly time for students in North America, as well as internationally, for several weeks, no matter what the day or date.

As the US Secret Service found in their study of school shootings, the vast majority, 80% of these shooters, are suicidal. Frankly, I think all of them are suicidal. Homicide, as Freud said, is suicide turned outward, and that's exactly the model that is being followed. Suicide is also homicide turned inward.

Expect more school shootings, unfortunately

10/04/2006 12:53:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Troubled by a rash of school shootings," says Reuters, "President George W. Bush next week will bring together law enforcement authorities and education officials to try to determine what the federal government can do to stop the problem."

And to whomever commented on the Yoo inteview, it was horrifying. He relayed in the most casual tone imaginable that any American can be labeled "an enemy combatant" by the President and held unitl "cessation of hostilities" without "legal recourse" and that any proof of a crime was ""negligable".

It's all over but for the slam of the cell door.

10/04/2006 01:25:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Amish Mennonites as a front. The Amish are the most pacifistic people, so the Illuminati/intelligence agencies have placed some of their best programmed assassins behind the front of being Amish.

The front is real--they are Amish, well, many of them, some were Illuminati children switched at birth to give the programmers better bloodlines to work from. Some Amish women in cult families have let the Illuminati impregnate them with stronger bloodlines. Many Nazi bloodlines were hidden after WW II under the Mennonite/Amish cover.

The Mennonites and some of the more progressive Amish adopt many children. The Amish in Missouri (Jamestown), Kansas (south of Hutchison), and Oklahoma (Guthrie, OK), Kentucky, Ohio (Holmes Co., OH), and Pennsylvania (Lancaster,PA) have been involved in selling their children to the Illuminati. When the Illuminati would buy a child they would send in one of their own midwives to help with the birth and retrieve the child. Generally, the Amish would sell their children when they realized they were going to have twins. One would be given to the cult, and one would be kept by the Amish parents. Because these children are born outside of the system, and have no birth certificates, they made excellent children to use in porn. They also can be used as expendable children to use in porn. They were often blond haired and blue eyed. The Amish women were not allowed to use birth control, it was forbidden by the church, and they were not allowed to have an abortion, and it was their duty to have sex with their husbands. It is possible that some parents sold their children just to get out of the responsibility of having another child.

The Amish farms in Kansas and Oklahoma and in the border states like Missouri and Kentucky are mechanized with tractors, and they don’t need the large families that the Amish in other places need. Due to the strong legalism that pervades their church, some have tried to get around the tight spot that the rules place them in by selling a few unnoticed children. However, there is an active witchcraft practicing occult group within the Amish which is like a box within a box within a box. It is very secret. There are many ways of describing what is going on with the Amish. Let’s describe quickly in half a page (it could be a book in itself) what a deep look at the spiritual dynamics of what is going on with their communities. The rise of Satanism within their ranks is simply a natural outgrowth of the spiritual dynamics. There were two trees in the Garden of Eden, one was the Tree of Life and one was the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. The first meant being transformed by the Creator who made them into the image of the Spirit of God and receiving spiritual life, but the other tree was performance.

The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil (religion) includes both Law (good) and license (evil). As soon as a group gets legalistic, they fall from grace. They then separate themselves by their performance and say in effect “look at what we’re doing” which is a form of pride. God resists the proud, so they through a number of spiritual dynamics lose fellowship with God. This means they must cling to their legalistic traditions even more, because a live relationship with God is gone. (Bible Studies are forbidden by most Amish church distrists, and they don’t get new revelation from God, they still are working off of the revelations of the 1600s, when they were traumatized and quit growing. When they split from the rest of the Mennonites, they were like a child alter split which never grows up.) When a group gets legalism, they also get license, because the two grow from the same tree. Every Amish community has two large groups--the legalistic ones and the license ones.

The young people are even split this way. In Lancaster County, the Groffies” is the nickname of the large license group of young people who fornicate and drink. There is a smaller group of legalistic conservative young people too, who are at the other end of the spectrum. There is one group (gang might be a more appropriate name) called Jamborees who are an unruly and destructive collection of angry wild young people. The Bishops in Lancaster Co. meet twice yearly to keep this large settlement of opposites together. A lot of compromise and looking the other way is done for the sake of peace. “Peace” at any price is the name of the game. Even before a prayer is said in church the minister calls out, “Wenn mer eenich sin, wella mer bete.” This translates, “If we are in one accord, then let us pray.” Because peace is so important, they are out of balance in getting it. They place peace far above truth.

In order to have the appearance that everything is well, secrecy pervades everything like the air one breathes. Because their whole culture is secret, children raised in it aren’t aware of how strong it is, it is simply a way of life, like it is for the Illuminati. Legalism values conformity. Conformity perfers robotic obedience over understanding. In fact, one Bishop told Fritz, co-author of this book, “We don’t want our young folks to understand why they do what they do, we only want obedience. Understanding is dangerous.” Does the reader begin to see how the Amish make both the perfect setting for Monarch Mind-Control, and the perfect cover. The Amish are a very secret group. During their early history they suffered severe persecution. Their culture teaches them to suffer in silence, which today helps their Satanic abusers infiltrate their culture. In the past in Europe, when the Catholic or Protestant church caught them they were tortured to death. They were hunted as animals and treated worse than animals when caught. This was the trauma, that Satan did to them, and the lie that was then handed them was that if they would cloister themselves secretly in the New World away from everyone else, they would be safe.

The Amish have shut out from outsiders the true flavor of their culture and beliefs. They are silent about their problems. They tell themselves that outsiders couldn’t possibly be interested in their affairs. The Amish themselves are very divided from each other. The divisions between Amish groups is called Zwietract. Zwietract can cover anything from a mild aloofness to a full fledged shunning (called the Meidung). The Amish aren’t in general qualified to tell outsiders much in detail about their own heritage, or religion because they are so isolated from the other Amish settlements and have been raised in such an anti-intellectual culture. Most Amish are content to know that the way they do things “was always done this way” and that their elders and forefathers were gifted men who examined things very closely. Their social norms are not intellectually questioned by most Amish, but then American society has been very isolationist in the world and few Americans question their society & norms.

Americans even rebel in the prescribed fashion, whatever the elite tell society is the “in” “cool” “hot” stylish way to do things. The Amish are similar to the Mid-east culture in that they have a very indirect approach to saying things. They do not consider it proper to speak with a negative connotation about anybody. They also instinctively give pat answers to outsiders to blunt questions. These pat answers border on being rigid, prejudiced, and simple. They serve the purpose to deter curiosity. The early Amish leaders were ex-Catholic priests, but most of the people were peasants who had little formal schooling, had little Bible knowledge, and came from southern Germany and the Rheinland where witchcraft was practiced by the common people. The Spirit of Witchcraft never left the Amish. It has always been with them. The folk witchcraft is called Brauche, and the craft is kept secret by old men who pass the incantations down in secret. When the Amish moved to Pennsylvania, they moved in next door to Rosicrucians.

When the Rosicrucian settlements fell apart they joined the Mennonites, thus bringing their hermetic magic along with them. Somewhere within the Amish were some families that were under cover for the Jesuits, and were sent in as spies long ago because they were corrupt. These families have been generational satanists, which practice pedophilia and other crimes in the safety of their isolation. They were placed within the Amish to help the Catholic church destroy the Amish. In Europe that happened under Hitler, when all the Old Order Amish were arrested in 1938 and wiped out of Germany. Prior to WW II, the Nazi’s part of the Illuminati sent over a number of programmed multiples which set up an unnamed cult in upstate New York. This cult was to help Hitler take power in the U.S. when the Nazi’s won the war. They did not win the war, but 60 years later this Satanic cult still operates.

Now 2nd and 3rd generation programmed multiples are now part of this cult. Somehow this Illuminati mission coordinates with the Illuminati project to get Hitler’s bloodline hidden among the Amish, although the authors are aware of Hitler’s descendants being in Oregon, and Washington as well as Pennsylvania. One of them in Portland, Oregon works for the Federal government. Lancaster County is sometimes referred to as the mother church. This was one of the original counties which the Amish settled in when they first came over to the New World. William Penn invited Rosicrucians, Amish, and other dissident religious groups to Pennsylvania. The Satanic covens in Lancaster County, PA consist of members from Amish, Mennonite and Brethren churches. They are not simply all Amish.

Lancaster County’s Amish will fellowship will all the approximately 200 other settlements of Amish around the country. What is a peculiar phenomena, is that many churches that do not fellowship with one another, will still maintain “communion” with Lancaster out of respect for place in Amish history. However, Lancaster County has some of the most immoral reprobate Amish that there could be. All this is hidden very well from the thousands of tourists, due to the secrecy of the Amish. The Amish do not often pay taxes, do not pay social security because they are exempt from the Social Security program, and send many of their children to Amish schools. They are truly a separate society which maintains rigid secrecy. If you were the New World Order or the Illuminati where would you want to hide your assassins?

The safest place is inside of the most pacifist group in the world, the Amish. Monarch mind-controlled slaves are being created out of Amish children. During W.W. II, Amish conscientious objectors were forced by the government to do alternate public service in lieu of military service. This was known as Civilian Public Service. Amish & Mennonite conscientious objectors were placed into Mental Hospitals to help. They served at Allentown State Hosp., Allentown, PA; Cantonsville State Hosp., Cantonsville, MD; Cleveland State Hosp., Cleveland, OH; Delaware State Hosp., Parnhurst, DL; Denver State Hosp., Denver, CO; Greystone Park State Hosp., Greystone Park, NJ; Harrisburg State Hosp., Harrisburg, PA; Hudson River State Hosp., Poughkeepsie, NY; Kalamazoo State Hosp., Kalamazoo, MI; Lima State Hosp., Lima, OH; Livermore State VA Hosp., Livermore, CA; Macedonia State Hosp., Macedonia, OH; Marlboro State Hosp., Marlboro, NJ; Mt. Pleasant State Hosp., Mt. Pleasant, 10; Norristown State Hosp., Norristown, PA; Provo State Hosp., Provo, UT; Rhode Is. State Hosp., Howard, RI; Roseburg VA State Hosp., Roseburg, OR; Staunton State Hosp., Staunton, VA; Tiffin State Hosp., Tiffin, OH; Wernersville State Hosp., Wernersville, PA; Ypsilanti State Hosp., Ypsilanti, MI.

The author, Fritz, believes that the complete story of how the Illuminati got a secret foothold into the Amish community lies in what happened in mental hospitals to the anxious-to-please, compliant, innocent Amish boys, who were assigned to these mental hospitals. Many people do not realize that during W.W. I, several Mennonite/Hutterite conscientious objectors were tortured to death by our government. Not a pretty picture when you find out how sadistic our government was willing to be toward its own citizens. Not only did the Amish boys go to lots of mental hospitals during W.W. II, but all of the religious groups that participated in the conscientious objector service (called Civilian Public Service) contributed boys to the Office of Scientific Research & Development (part of the Army), which was still using these boys for experiments until Dec. 31, 1946. What kinds of “experiments” were the Amish boys, who were offered up as guinea pigs, subjected to by the OSRD? We now know that some of these experiments were very dangerous to their human guinea pigs. 1-0 classification was the Selective Service Board’s Conscientious Objector classification. During the Vietnam War, Amish young men went into I-W service (conscientious objector service) at mental and regular hospitals. Their I-W service was for two years.

Some of these young men were programmed at these hospitals. One Amish boy after he got home from I-W service committed suicide. The secret satanic families within various Amish settlements also offered up their children. This started a large scale super secret operation by the CIA/Intelligence agencies to set up Delta teams within the Amish. Who would ever suspect an Amishman? They have been expendable assassins for the CIA for years. These young men are strong farmboys. They have no connection between themselves and the outside world where they secretly carry out their missions, and if they die, there is no birth record, and perhaps a dozen other siblings for their family to continue on with. During the Vietnam War, the Military’s Selective Service did things differently than in W.W.II. Any hospital or mental hospital which applied for approval could get I-W (conscientious objector) boys. The Amish put together a Steering Committee to work with the government and the I-W service.

In the I-W Steering Committee meetings (and the author Fritz attended one) it was stated by Committee members “The boys do not come back the same [from the hospitals]” and that the I-W service in the mental hospitals was “proving unsatisfactory and harmful.” Some of the mental hospitals which received Amish boys include Columbia Missouri’s State Mental Hospital & Hospital complex, Colorado Psychopathic Hospital in Denver, all of the hospitals that got W.W. III-Ws (as listed above), Central State Hospital, Indianpolis, IND, New Jersey State Hospital, Greystone Park, NJ, Philadelphia State Hospital, Philadelphia, PA, plus numerous others. At any one time, there were hundreds of Amish boys in I-W service.

It is suspected that many of these hospitals were involved in mind-control, and it is known that the Columbia, MO complex of hospitals and Mid-Missouri State Mental Hospital, 803 Stadium Dr., Columbia, Missouri and the Veteren’s Hospital across the street were involved in mind-control for the CIA. A mental hospital had to apply to the Selective Service Board for approval to get I-W workers. Then their personnel departments would hire the I-W boys for positions such as nursing attendents. One State Mental Hospital administrator told Fritz that the whole I-W thing was “pretty confidential.” The Amish Steering Committee worked with the Mennonite Central Committee (MCC) which in turn worked for some quasi-religious group which is privately funded called The National Service Board of Religious Objectors (NSBRO) still active in Washington, D.C. The Amish were slow to act, but by the end of the Vietnam War, they had managed to get some of their farms approved for I-W service and in 1971, the Steering Committee was able to announce that 70 Amish I-W boys were working on Amish farms in 8 states, rather than in hospitals. However, this late change was too late to protect their settlements from infiltration from sophisticated Illuminati mind-control.

HOW IT IS DONE

A programmed Amish boy will likely be contacted by what is called a “CUT-OUT’. This is the secret contact person who maintains contact between the Handler and the Amish Delta. CUT-OUT’s can either be given several slaves (a BLOCK CUT-OUT) or in other cases only know the up-line handler and down-line person (a CHAIN CUT-OUT). If further secrecy is needed by the handler, he can use ‘‘sterile telephones’’ which the Illuminati/CIA have which cannot be traced, even by the telephone companies. When an Amish boy is activated and sent out on an assassination mission for the Illuminati/Intelligence agencies he is a professional at what he has been trained and programmed to do. Amish boys, programmed to be assassins, are used in what their handlers call “wet ops”. This intelligence lingo means that human blood will run. Wet ops, also called black ops are debriefed by a briefing team.

The Amish multiple will have to give a detailed account of the finished operation, once under hypnosis, once with a polygraph, and once under the drug scopolamine (a truth serum). And when the debriefing team, which includes a Mind-control Programmer, is satisfied that all of the inconsistencies between the different accounts have been ironed out, then the Programmer will block out all memory and guilt of the operation. The handler may write a “blind memorandum” which has no file no. or letterhead or name. Then Amish boy’s assassination alters will be praised for having done a great service to humanity and to his country. The Amish boy can now be sent home to milk cows and work on his labor-intensive tobacco farm without any nagging guilt or horrible memories surfacing to trouble him (at least in theory). Trained assassins do have memory flashes, as all Monarch slaves have, but they are only bits and pieces. People also do not realize that the Amish live in many more states than Pennsylvania.

They move all over the United States. If an Amishman was travelling on a CIA mission there are numerous of excuses that could be made for why he could be on the move. There are far more Amish young people away from the Amish settlements than people realize because they dress like the world. Many young people leave with the knowledge that they can go back years later and be accepted back into their community. What are some of the mitigating factors in all of this? The Amish do their own butchering. They are down-to-earth people who are not afraid of blood. Essentially all Amish children grow up helping with butchering, and seeing life and death played out everyday on their farms. The Amish do not embalm their dead, and have their own cemeteries.

The Satanic cult within the Amish can reopen the graves and carry out satanic ceremonies afterward. Their cemeteries are small almost hidden sites with markers hidden in grass. Some of these graveyards blend in with their rural settings.

10/04/2006 01:27:00 PM  
Anonymous Thrace said...

To BillyShears
I'm not saying that numerology isn't horseshit. I would never use it. I don't personally believe in the " power of numbers" and stuff like that. But there are people who wholeheartedly do. And they won't undertake any endeavor without consulting 'the numbers'. I appreciate your demonstration, but it's probably a little more contorted than what even devoted numerologists use. Thier patterns are simple and quite easy to spot, when you know what to look for. They don't use tortured equations to come up with what the need.
Anony 9:58 - Thanks for clearing up that matter of military service regarding the Colorado shooter. Just the little bit we heard about him smacked of someone who'd spent at least some time in the military.Have your heard anything on Amish School shooter Charles Roberts yet?
And I agree with your premise- these are the people most likely to be exposed to serious mind-control, a la MK Ultra, just as our DC Snipers apparently were.

Thrace

10/04/2006 01:35:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

problem
reaction
solution by white house

Wonder what the brainstorm will yield.
I know THEY hate our freedom.

10/04/2006 01:40:00 PM  
Anonymous Oarwell said...

To Albertus M. and others:

I certainly agree that the forces of Repression will be quick to capitalize on the Amish shooting, but I need to see a little evidence before I attribute this tragic event to their recondite machinations.

I am a great believer in Hegelian dialectics: problem, reaction, solution. Or, cast in other terms, "ordo ab chaos," when "they" stage (or abet) the chaos:

http://www.orwelltoday.com/stagedevents.shtml

But labeling EVERYTHING as being their doing tends to weaken our ability to discriminate between premeditated and random events. Ignoring quantum physics (my cat is alive, I can see it scratching itself) for the moment, the ability to usefully label events is heightened, not reduced, by such categorization.

The first news report I heard had the idiotic observation "there are no metal detectors in these Amish schoolhouses." Yuh, kinda hard to run one without electricity!

Is there enormous benefit to the forces of Repression from this? Sure: distract from the Foley thing, distract the growing 911 Truth movement, gun control, RFIDing kids--any of us can run down that list. But the fact that they benefit doesn't mean they caused it.

Sometimes pyramids are just pyramids. (Huh?)

10/04/2006 02:32:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Going Postal Freelance or MK diversion

Excuse # 1 becoming very popular also being used by Foley ie: (the perp is a victim after all,ahhhhh ohhhhhhhhh)

This Amish story needs more info though people do snap.
Maybe the MK trigger was given after the last shooting.
Very methodical.

In Russia the siege of the school killed most everybody standing.......oops
Columbine had a few incidents of not so friendly fire too...............hearsay hearsay


Catholic priests are a blatant example of the consequences of sexual repression. Sexual repression is about the worst, as the sex drive is as powerful as and is tied directly to the life force, it doesn’t just go away. Anything that is repressed comes out in warped, distorted, and unhealthy ways. Many problems would be avoided if people would vent their feelings and stop repressing them. This isn’t about going on a rampage....................

Of course it serves the means of application of more control.

Who is against helping childen?

The shrill noise.
It will drown out the rational if there is any.

10/04/2006 02:50:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

link

This document is a bizarre mix of the real and the unreal, and peppered with statements which could be mind control programming 'trigger' commands:

"The models are are constructed of bones"
"Attack vigorously until the player is near death"

Is it a game - is it their game?

I posted on this site about this link in the thread yesterday when this was the first link to be produced from a google search of "Jeffrey Miller Amish". Today it has sunk way down the search.

The other Jeffrey Miller searches link to the schoolhouse shooting.

All this brings me to question: How would they (MKULTRA/ the mind control programmers) claim this shooting as one of their own? They could do it like this.

10/04/2006 02:56:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If I can post the link

link

10/04/2006 03:01:00 PM  
Anonymous kitsune said...

Anonymous said...

LUBRICATING JELLY also among the Supplies

off topic - but does the jelly component remind anyone else of Matthew Barney's work (video)

I think petroleum jelly was always present as a lubricant in the training room. It was always there, and I think it became the liquid state in this range of materials that I started organizing as a palette to create a body of sorts that wasn’t necessarily figurative in scale but I was imagining more as a sculptural body. I think the whale narrative in DRAWING RESTRAINT 9 became a way of thinking about the source of petroleum jelly, thinking about how whale oil was replaced by petroleum as an energy source at a certain point. And that petroleum comes from the fossil of the prehistoric animal and the way that the whale is one of our strongest connections to prehistoric life. So, that was one of the first curiosities for me was a way of thinking about a material that I had been using and thinking about its history.


. . . it's always struck me as odd that he is so "famous" for such a pile of nonsensical fiction that focuses on Gender Difference (men represented as strong and disturbed and women as weak and to be looked at) Masonic Rituals, and Petroleum Jelly. i haven't gotten it all wrapped together, but he just seems like the perfect Leni Riefenstahl to the Bush administration . . . especially with the feature of Petroleum Products, his own feminine alpha-male persona and the insistence on illuminati-like bizarreness and serial killers . . . especially the component he discusses in the video “I became even more aware of my habits – of my inability to follow any one particular thread to the end. I think part of it is not wanting to understand something completely to the point where the project becomes about that thing – I just needed a support team – it didn’t need a complete script. It’s like the way I absorb things in a day to day way. I don’t think there is a conscious . . .

. . . a number of locations were selected and a story was told over the course of five locations and over the course of a significant amount of time which would eventually come together as one piece”

you can watch them all here

10/04/2006 03:14:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

3.01

And if you google the authors of the First Person Shooter document, it's interesting that John McCloskey is an Opus Dei priest who calls himself "a salesman for the church" and "the go-to cleric for television producers seeking an orthodox take on the church’s sex abuse scandals".

Well, I guess it's not the same guy and that the Jeffrey Miller is not the same Jeffrey Miller. And Lars Linden is not the same Lars Linden of the band Rosicrucian.

10/04/2006 03:18:00 PM  
Anonymous kitsune said...

funny - i resisted posting a link to this article, likening Barney's Creamaster 3 to Donkey Kong . . .

10/04/2006 03:44:00 PM  
Anonymous kitsune said...

sorry - i messed up some of the links i recently posted.

about m.b. (video)

petroleum jelly

10/04/2006 04:00:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

Related news from the Propaganda Matrix folks: Was this addressed here over the weekend or something? (It's a two-minute segment of this Cafferty journalist-person on focking Wolfgang Blitzkrieg's CNN Spiel O' Rama discussing the implications of the bill last week giving all members of the BushCo government retro-active immunity from war crimes charges...)
Other highlights include John Yoo's revolting interview and this blurb:

Women who were arrested with their children were forced to watch their boys being sodomized with chemical glow sticks as the cameras rolled. Investigative journalist Seymour Hersh says that the U.S. government is still withholding the tapes because of the horror of the "soundtrack of the shrieking boys" and their mothers begging to be killed in favor of seeing their children raped and tortured.

Where is that moral high ground, exactly? What would "depraved" mean, if these guys embodied moral principle?

10/04/2006 04:43:00 PM  
Blogger hoi polloi said...

I am continually amazed by how much Fritz Springmeier's writings continue to parallel events that take place. To whoever posted the Springmier article linking the Amish and organized trauma based mind control, thank you. I would have done it myself if no one else did. And y'all need to re-read Springmeier if you've only read him once. He knows what he's talking about.

10/04/2006 05:00:00 PM  
Anonymous Mahdi Man said...

Who benefits? The media/entertainment complex and those who seek gun control.

My thoughts /feelings/prayers are with the families,all of the families.

This is the pilot episode and will run and run.Analysis needs time people,something I feel all of us here are short of......

The age of anxiety just ramped up and the United States of Amnesia just held a rollcall.

Future predictions? the rise of home/internet schooling and the consequent loss of community/identity and socialisation arenas.Isolation will increase....

Fear and consumption brethren,fear and consumption.

Mr Swan/kiwi Nate any metaphysical insights?

10/04/2006 05:45:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"I really dont see how the government, controlled by the GOP... will be able to round up and effectively take away their own supporters guns."

Most of the Bush supporting 2nd Amendment types I know are all hat and no cattle, so they won't resist even if a Democrat orders them to turn in their guns. And if Bush tells them to turn them in, they'll be waiting out on their front lawns, guns in hand, axnious to turn them over to the "lawful" authorities --espeically if Fox "News" tells them only "terrorists" need guns.

10/04/2006 06:02:00 PM  
Anonymous starroute said...

I realize it's somewhat off-topic, but for me the most alarming thing in this thread was the suggestion that Moon might be the guiding hand behind the selection of the next UN Secretary General -- far more disturbing than the question of whether school shooters are mind-controlled.

Moon has sunk out of sight somewhat in the last several years, but googling on his current activities mainly turns up a range of international, seemingly high-minded seminars on behalf of peace and such, often attended by former high-level members of various national governments.

So a move to take over the UN wouldn't be at all out of character.

Josette Shiner's name also sets off alarm bells. After leaving the Washington Times in 1997, she became president and CEO of William Bennett's Empower America, a role she held until March 2000. The group's other three directors were Jack Kemp, Jeane Kirkpatrick, and Vin Weber, and William S. Cohen was also a member.

Empower America is a shadowy and somewhat spooky organization, and I've never had a clear idea of what it was up to in those late Clinton years. However, it seems to have had some sort of ties with the Heritage Foundation, which itself has had many Moon connections over the years.

Shiner became Associate U.S. Trade Representative for Policy and Communications in the Bush administration, then moved up in 2003 to be Deputy US Trade Representative under Robert Zoellick. (Zoellick, like Vin Weber, is associated with PNAC, CFR, and the Aspen Institute.)

When Zoellick moved over in 2005 to become Deputy Secretary of State under Condi Rice, Shiner followed him as Undersecretary of State for Economic, Business and Agricultural Affairs. Zoellick left the administration just a few months ago, after being passed over in the selection of a new Secretary Treasury, so Shiner is apparently looking for a change of roles as well.

As far as I can tell, Moon is like a one-man Illuminati -- he has his hand in everything, any number of major figures are connected with him, and most of the right-wing in the US has been indebted to him at one time or another. The Heritage Foundation connection to Moon is also a significant factor, especially since it brings a range of figures in the Ed Feulner/Ed Buckham/Jack Abramoff lineup into the picture.

Although none of this is clear, my best guess is that Moon and his allies have concluded that East Asia is going to be the global power center of the 21st century and are working to leverage that to their advantage (and probably to the detriment of the US.) Shiner's role as deputy trade representative in bringing China and Taiwan into the WTO may be an aspect of this.

I find it interesting that Heritage Foundation founder Richard Viguerie has been appearing prominently on tv this week, calling for real conservatives to welcome a Democratic takeover of Congress in the wake of the Foley scandal so that people like them can take back the Republican Party back.

I hope we never see the day when we recall Bush nostalgically as the last person who once stood between us and something even worse -- but it just might happen.

10/04/2006 06:24:00 PM  
Anonymous Oarwell said...

Glenn Greenwald is all out of bubblegum:

"We have been barraged with laws, programs, sermons, demagoguery and all sorts of moral demonization from a political movement whose most powerful pundit is a multiple-times-divorced drug addict who flamboyantly cavorts around with a new girlfriend every few months in between Viagra-fueled jaunts to the Dominican Republic. It is a political movement whose legacy will be torture, waterboards, naked, sadomasochistic games in Iraqi dungeons (or, to Rush, "blowing off steam"), with all sorts of varied sleaze and corruption deeply engrained throughout its DNA -- all propped up by a facade of moralism and dependent upon the support of those who have been propagandized into believing that they are voting for the Party of Values and Morals.

It is not a coincidence that the GOP was harboring someone like Mark Foley within its highest ranks while their most powerful political officials purposely looked the other way and even actively helped to conceal what he was up to, thereby enabling him to continue. After all, even now that this conduct has been exposed, their instinct -- all the way to the highest levels -- is to excuse and defend those leaders and offer up the most disgusting defenses -- all because preservation of their political power depends on it. This is not some bizarre aberration. This is how they operate and it is what they are. And the Mark Foley scandal is making it virutally impossible for anyone to convincingly deny it any longer."

10/04/2006 06:28:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

WASHINGTON — A senior House Republican has asked the House clerk to look into allegations that then-Rep. Mark Foley was turned away from the congressional page dorm on Capitol Hill after arriving there intoxicated one night.

One for the road?

10/04/2006 06:34:00 PM  
Anonymous MKulture said...

The mystery of the Amish school shooter deepens:

Two relatives of the man who attacked an Amish school said they were not molested by him 20 years ago as he had claimed, investigators said Wednesday.

Charles Carl Roberts IV, 32, revealed to his family in notes he left behind and in a cell phone call to his wife from inside the West Nickel Mines Amish School that he was tormented by memories of molesting his two young relatives 20 years ago. He also spoke of having dreams about doing it again.

Investigators spoke to the two women, who would have been 4 or 5 at the time, and they said there was no such abuse.

"Both of them have no recollection of being sexually assaulted by Roberts," state police Trooper Linette Quinn said. "They were absolutely sure they had no contact with Roberts."

10/04/2006 07:36:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just a few thoughts on Mathew Barney & contemporary art.
I trained in Fine Art & practiced, making work of a critical nature during the 90's
My Irish backround informed my work & I investigated issues of post-colonialism & did anyone in the art establishment care? Did they fuck.
They were more interested in grooming men-hating feminists, of the female & male persuasion, I would include 'confused' individuals like Barney.
Contemporary art is self-deluding fluff, as is so much cultural practice today.
Ppl like me had to leave our careers behind us in order to wake up, as they say.
I am gratified to see clarity & enquiry in the writings of Jeff here & want to thank him for it. Jus' wish he could paint it ;)

10/04/2006 07:59:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi Jeff,

I believe that the Amish shooter and the Colorado shooter were both mind-controlled assassins. Their sudden appearance, and the death and destruction they caused served several purposes. I believe the main push was to relieve the US population of private handguns.

In March, 1996, there was a horrible school shooting in Dunblane, Scotland. In a matter of months, the UK had banned private handguns. This may be the goal in the US.

Interesting, too, is how the school shootings and Foley's emails have kept us diverted from the topics we should be shouting from the rooftops, and those are the passing of a torture bill, the loss of habeas corpus, the okay of illegal wiretapping, and the general loss of a democratic society.

I don't believe all killings are mind-controlled. Many of the school shootings involve alienated students, kids who are too into violence. However, these two men followed a definite pattern. They took the school hostage, separated the girls, and then killed one or more of them. Then they killed themselves. It is very hard for a mind-controlled subject to be examined by a psychiatrist if he is dead.

After Sirhan Sirhan was jailed, he told people he couldn't remember the incident. There was talk about whether he might have been mind-controlled and some information that came out later at least alluded to the possibility.

These guys are dead. They both killed themselves. There will be no questions for them. They can't tell anyone they don't remember the incident. Obviously the handlers of the first assassins realized they had made a mistake in not having the assassins do themselves in. With the new generation of mind-controlled assassins they have rectified this error.

Mary R. C.

10/04/2006 08:46:00 PM  
Anonymous FreakedOut said...

Jeff, I was moving in the same direction in terms of thinking about the PA shootings... and simply note the change in conversational flow on some boards from the Military Commissions bill in which we lost THE essential right to the Foley matter... thrown in with a little shock and awe while we are unaware of the bloodbath in Iraq.

In researching the broad subject of MK, I came across the tale of a survivor of ritualized sex abuse and mind control from a Pennsylvanian German or Mennonite family... I can't re-find the link but will continue trying... it fraked me out because I grew up in the area under the tutelage of a step-mother with the same family name and I recognized the picture of the perpetrator...

At any rate, I thought your readers might also be interested in this tidbit:

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=16824

10/04/2006 09:10:00 PM  
Blogger Jeff said...

"Two relatives of the man who attacked an Amish school said they were not molested by him 20 years ago as he had claimed, investigators said Wednesday."

Thanks for posting that, mkulture. I'd had a feeling that would turn out to be the case.

10/04/2006 09:49:00 PM  
Anonymous Richard said...

This is off-topic but it involves PA.
Every time I ride home from work I have to use Rt. 65. On Rt. 65 is a nice huge Dick Santorum/NRA billboard with Dick's little smarmy 'ram your fist here' smirk staring at me above a block of text that waxes rhapsodic about the NRA being America's first line of defense & how the NRA just loves Dick.

Tonight, as I passed this lovely scenic art piece I noticed that some enterprising young folk, & I'm assuming their young because old folk don't usually do this shit....but I noticed that all the normal text was completely covered over by white paper & written in big block letters under Dick's name was this:

NEEDS TO COME OUT OF THE CLOSET.

There may be hope for my state after all.

10/04/2006 10:14:00 PM  
Anonymous Oarwell said...

Was this ever much commented on? It happened last than a month ago, but at the warp speed of current modern events, it seems longer:

"The alleged gunman in a Montreal college shooting called himself the "Angel of Death" in an online profile, Canadian media say.
The alleged gunman, identified by Quebec Provincial Police spokesman Jason Jaughir as Kimveer Gill, 25, was killed by police gunfire after a rampage through Dawson College left one woman dead and 19 others injured, six of them critically.

Six of the 19 wounded people are in intensive care on life support at Montreal General Hospital, Dr. Tarek Razek said. Two of those six are in extremely critical condition, he added.

Police were searching for a motive Thursday, but in a profile on the Web site vampirefreaks.com, quoted Thursday by the Toronto Star, Gill writes that he wants to die "like Romeo and Juliet -- or in a hail of gunfire."

The Montreal Gazette and the French-language Journal de Montreal said Gill, from the Montreal suburb of Laval, had published an online gallery of more than 50 photos depicting himself in various poses, holding a Berretta CX4 Storm semi-automatic rifle and wearing a long black trench coat and combat boots.

"His name is Trench. You will come to know him as the Angel of Death," he wrote on his vampirefreaks.com profile, according to the Gazette.

Gill's online identifier was Fatality666, according to the Star.

The Journal de Montreal quoted Gill as writing, "Work sucks, school sucks, life sucks... What else can I say? ... Vengeance is coming."

The Star said Gill wrote about hating authority figures, including police and teachers, and high school "jocks" for their bullying.

A version of Gill's Web page shows a tombstone inscribed with his name "Kimveer" and the words "Lived fast died young. Left a mangled corpse,'' the Star reported.

One of Gill's postings said he liked to play "Super Columbine Massacre," an Internet-based game that simulated the April 20, 1999, shootings by two students at a Colorado high school that left 13 people dead, The Associated Press reported."

Now, I'm just asking, but would it be useful to know who else enjoys playing such a dark game? Or is that a police state measure? Just good, clean fun?

I had no idea such a game existed. I'm usually an optimist, but now I'm thinking that this whole thing is not going to end pleasantly.

And a lot of the other sites (FDL, etc.) are high-fiving it tonight, thanks to Foleygate. But they were doing the same thing last year with Plamegate, and that led nowhere.

Super Columbine Massacre. Who thinks up such a thing? I mean, really?

10/04/2006 10:51:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"I hope we never see the day when we recall Bush nostalgically as the last person who once stood between us and something even worse -- but it just might happen."


Well, the current occupant of the White House is making me nostalgic for Nixon and even Reagan. If I thought back to JFK, the nostalgia would just get too thick and painful, so I don't think much about that ancient era...

10/04/2006 10:57:00 PM  
Anonymous rain said...

"I'd had a feeling that would turn out to be the case"
'leave a note for your relatives citing past molestation experiences', part of the script?
eh. sometimes the machinations of these dark minds leaves me even a little dumb-founded.

10/04/2006 10:58:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As far as "666" - I've read in several places that "616" may be the actual number in Revelations, so who knows...?

10/04/2006 11:20:00 PM  
Blogger Steve Talbert said...

i think the true bibical scholars have decided a couple of years ago that 616 is the number. It had been a mistranslation or smudge all this time when they found a cleaner copy. The christian science monitor had a good article on how it was determined.

just goes to show that believing literally in some passed on myth with multiple translations through various political, moral and social periods throughout various cultures over 1000s of years is not something to be paid much attention to.

10/04/2006 11:46:00 PM  
Anonymous Freaked Out said...

Here's the bio for Loren Coleman, whose work was cited above:

"Loren Coleman has dealt with the Copycat Effect through his federal government funded research work, books, and media consultations for almost three decades. He is the author, coauthor, or editor of over 25 books, one of which is the acclaimed Suicide Clusters (Faber and Faber, 1987). The book was a Psychotherapy and Social Science Book Club selection, and Coleman appeared on many programs, including "The Larry King Show" discussing it. His work on the suicides of baseball players, specifically Angels pitcher Donnie Moore, has been covered in The New York Times, Sports Illustrated, and The Sporting News, plus on television programs such as ESPN’s SportsCenter (in 1989) and ESPN Classics (in 2001). His work has involved trainings and creation of manuals for law enforcement officers on forensic guidelines for child abuse and suicide investigations, and dealing with the media. He has appeared on National Public Radio, NBC-TV, and other media forums as an authority interviewee concerning Heaven’s Gate, Waco, Hemingway, and Columbine. Coleman has trained and consulted around the country and in Canada on suicide clusters and school violence, since the 1980s."

Hmmmm....

10/05/2006 01:32:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

LOL,

no 'Hmmmm' about it.

puff, puff, puff...

10/05/2006 02:20:00 AM  
Anonymous trachys said...

Because Ban Ki-moon is Korean, claims to be 'non-denominational,' and worked at the embassy in Washington he's a Moonie? I'm sceptical.

It's more likely that he's a favourite because he's a loyal lackey, like any other member of the South Korean political elite. He'll prove to be even less 'independent' of US/UK military/corporate interests than Annan was, if this is possible.

10/05/2006 07:53:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

there was evidence to connect a school assassin in the UK (Dunblane massacre) with high level paedophilia . This evidence was fairly well stifled. An offshoot of this massacre was increase in gun controls. increase in gun control is of interest to those who may have their power threatened as a last resort by armed resistance. increased gun controls in the UK since Dunblane have not decreased gun crime. (gun controls impinge on the legal ownership of guns, not on the criminal ownership of guns). there are simply too many guns in illegal circulation for gun controls to have a significant effect on gun crime, though arguably they may inhibit the perpetration of crazy crime. if the hypothesis that at least some of the crazies have been manipulated, then the purpose of such manipulation could arguably be to provide a pop. outcry for gun control.

10/05/2006 08:55:00 AM  
Anonymous Shrubageddon said...

Tonight, as I passed this lovely scenic art piece I noticed that some enterprising young folk, & I'm assuming their young because old folk don't usually do this shit....but I noticed that all the normal text was completely covered over by white paper & written in big block letters under Dick's name was this:

NEEDS TO COME OUT OF THE CLOSET.

There may be hope for my state after all.



I like it, Richard.....it puts a whole new twist on the Anony who said BEAR ARMS, doesn't it?

10/05/2006 10:35:00 AM  
Anonymous Shrubageddon said...

Chris Rock: You don't need no gun control. You know what you need? Bullet control. I think all bullets should cost $5000. You know why? If a bullet cost $5000 there'd be no more innocent bystanders.


Assuming Roberts, or any of these recent rash of School Shooters, weren't SirHan SirHans, then maybe they would have used those bullets a little more wisely, or not at all, had they cost dearly.

It's far past the point where guns could actually protect us, collectively and comprehensively, from The Beast we have created and supported.

Just look at Waco.....all those guns....and they got rolled over quite easily.

No match.

10/05/2006 10:53:00 AM  
Anonymous starroute said...

I realized in the light of day that in my post above, I'd confused Richard Viguerie with Paul Weyrich. Both paleocons who have at times worked closely together, both Moon-connected, and both have been calling for Hastert to resign (though Weyrich has changed tack today, after an "emotional" phone conversation with Hastert.)

But it's Weyrich who's the Heritage founder, while Viguerie is merely a right-wing fund-raiser and power-broker. So I wanted to set that straight.

10/05/2006 12:21:00 PM  
Anonymous Shrubageddon said...

Starroute & Others:

Please listen to Werich about the Hasstert/Foley issue on the link below.

It's a hoot....let me know what you think.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6196749

10/05/2006 01:23:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

StareDare said:

ALL YOUR FEARS ARE BELONG TO US !

10/05/2006 02:14:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Several important clues point to Charles Carl Roberts {use of 3 names indicates MK ultra programming}:

He was a driver for Land O Lakes, the large Wisconsin based food cooperative. Land O Lakes facilities had been alleged to be used previously for ritual trauma training for pedophiles and mind control training for the CIA. You should also check the Johnny Gosch connection to MK Ultra and the Amish Here is a portion of a 2005 interview with Noreen Gosch:

NOREEN: I first met Zielinski when he called our home and asked to do an interview. He said he was a journalist. I did the interview just as I had with many other journalists. I didn't hear from him again until Nov. 1999, he began calling repeatedly to my office, asking when I was going to write my book. I told him the book was in progress. I began writing my book in 1984.

CHARLENE: I find it odd that Mr. Zielinski contacted you and forthrightly asked you if you were planning on covering information about the CIA created MK-ULTRA program in your book. Why do you think an author of Amish books would be so interested in MK-ULTRA?

NOREEN: Zielinski had a legal issue with Sutherland Publishing company in Iowa. There was a court trial over the rights to a book on the Amish which Zielinski claimed to have written. Sutherland won the case, a $25,000 judgment was placed against Zielinski and he was banned from ever publishing another book in the State of Iowa under his own name. I think he just wanted to "ride on the coat tails of the Johnny Gosch case". He did ask if I was going to include info on the MK-ULTRA. I said yes... I have a great deal of info on it.

CHARLENE: Is it accurate to say Mr. Zielinski was impressing you with his ability to do research, extract information and cite sources from books in his personal library about MK-ULTRA? He surely is no expert on MK-ULTRA. Were these books out of print, extremely esoteric, or in some way not easily available to you other than through him?

NOREEN: Zielinski said he had some more material on MK-ULTRA and thought it should be included in the book. He offered to do some research on MK-ULTRA.

CHARLENE: How much material for your book on the subject of MK-ULTRA did he actually provide?

NOREEN: He only provided a few paragraphs in a couple chapters. The info in those paragraphs were taken from other books written by other authors, and I listed credit to those authors for each entry in my book.

CHARLENE: And now he claims, in his lawsuit against you, that he wrote the entire book for you and spent 12,000 hours on the project? How much research time did he actually spend on your book?

NOREEN: His claims are absolutely absurd and a complete lie. I have many witnesses to my statements and proof the book is mine. It is a chronological account of my search for my son. It is my son, my story and my book. He only worked a short time on the research. I have no idea where he drummed this outrageous number of hours he claims to have spent on the project.

CHARLENE: Can you explain the payment or other compensation arrangement you hammered out with Mr. Zielinski, including the remuneration he readily agreed to. Am I correct in assuming Zielinski refused to put the agreement in writing, although you had repeatedly requested a signed contract?

NOREEN: When Zielinski wanted to be involved in some research. I asked him what he wanted for this. He said, "I only want my expenses covered while I am in Des Moines". He also stated this before 5 witnesses. He refused to sign any written agreement to this effect. I repeatedly asked him to sign an agreement so we would be clear on this issue. I should have thrown him out of my office right then. But I didn't know he had such sinister plan in the back of his mind.

CHARLENE: Mr. Zielinski arrived to work with you at the end of May in 2000. Your book was finished and sent to the publisher in September of 2000. You, in fact, did the layout for your book by learning how to use the Pagemaker program on your own. Yet, Mr. Zielinski proclaims that he did it all, he wrote the entire book, he did the layout, and he originated the idea of doing a book on Johnny Gosch's kidnapping in the first place. Last but not least, he claims the book title was his idea, too. Please comment.

NOREEN: Yes, he is now going around telling anyone who will listen that he did it all and the whole idea for the book was his. This again is another example of an absurd lie. The book was started in 1983... within a couple months after Johnny was kidnapped.... Decades before I ever heard of Zielinski.

CHARLENE: Isn't it true, after Mr. Zielinski started working for you he tried several times to take over the ENTIRE book project. It got so bad that on one occasion you had to ask him to leave your home? You warned him that you wouldn't work with him any longer if he continued to disregard the fact that this was YOUR project and that it was YOUR book. Is that true? Then what happened?

NOREEN: Yes, I did have to tell him to leave my home on several occasions. He would begin to "yell and scream that he wanted me to do something a certain way ... stating he was an expert because he authored books on the Amish". I reminded him that it was "my son, my story and my book and if he didn't settle down he had to get out of my home and the project". He also on occasion would want to "rub my back, rub my feet, saying I should let him do what he did best". That was the last straw... I told him to get out and stay out. There was no way I was going to put up with that type of behavior in my own home/office.

CHARLENE: In October of 2000, you were invited to be a guest speaker at a National Private Investigators Conference, which, luckily for you, was to be held in your hometown of Des Moines, Iowa. Mr. Zielinski found out about the conference and wanted to attend as a guest, so you graciously arranged for him to attend. The Johnny Gosh Story was slated to be the primary focus of the conference, though not the only topic. NBC Dateline had agreed to film the conference, which would have provided free national publicity for your self-published book. The Johnny Gosh story would have finally received the National attention it deserved. This kind of prime time TV exposure had the potential to help countless other missing children and their hapless families across America. Knowledge is power. Your book is a powerful
tool. So I'd say this was the chance of a lifetime. But something went terribly wrong. And that something was Mr. Zielinski. Please explain.

NOREEN: Zielinski while sitting in the audience of this gathering of P.I's began shouting comments to the moderator and speakers on stage. He was told to keep quiet several times. He created a huge disturbance and it was unfortunately being filmed by NBC Dateline. After his asinine performance, Dateline informed me that they were pulling out of the project and they would not do my story and I lost any chance of National publicity for my book on TV


CHARLENE: Mr. Zielinski knowingly or unknowingly sabotaged your golden opportunity with NBC Dateline. Yet even after that debacle, Mr. Zielinski unexpectedly paid you a visit and presented you with a legal document to sign--a demand letter. Wasn't he insisting that you owed him something like $18,000? Never mind the fact that you had already paid out-of-pocket for his living arrangements and food during the time he worked on your book-- per a prearranged agreement! Adding insult to injury, he proceeded to casually inform you he had a son, who will soon be graduating from law school. And then he tells you, it was his son who had advised him that his legal rights had been violated by you. Zielinski continued to intimidate you into signing his spurious document, while you firmly stood your ground and politely refused. I understand he also asked for copies of your book (to resell) and you graciously said okay? Didn't your husband box about a $1000 worth (retail) of books for Mr. Zielinski that night, which he accepted? Please elaborate.

NOREEN: Zielinski's expenses were paid by me during the few months he was in Des Moines, I worked nights after I worked on the book all day in order to pay his expenses, plus my own bills. Zielinski has lied about every aspect of his involvement on this project. He has in the past done this very thing to another individual, John Swanson, a film/video maker. They worked together on a video of Amish nature. Mr. Swanson was bilked for thousands of dollars by Zielinski. Mr. Swanson has given us a full accounting of what took place. Zielinski has made a life practice of living off of other people. He has not held a job in 30 years... claims he is a full time author, and it is beneath him to hold a job. He also informed me he is invisible in this country concerning the IRS and Social Security Administration. He has not filed or paid into SS in 30 years. I feel that now he is 62 years of age, he intended to make me and the Johnny Gosch Foundation his "401 K plan".

CHARLENE: That's the last you had heard from Mr. Zielinski, until out of the blue in December 2004 you got a call from your attorney saying Mr. Zielinski is suing you and we (you and your attorney) only have four days to respond. Wisely, you requested that your attorney immediately ask for an extension, as a four day time frame was out of the question. You knew it would have been impossible to contact your witnesses, let alone prepare a defense on such short notice. I understand your attorney told you he didn't believe you'd get an extension and didn't want to ask for one. It was only due to your insistence that your attorney reluctantly acquiesced and finally got the extension. What were the key issues behind Zielinski's lawsuit? How much was he asking for supposed damages.

NOREEN: Zielinski is now asking for $24,000 and they tried to settle out of court for the remaining inventory and reprint rights. That is out of the question and so is the $24,000. I lived up to my responsibility... I paid all his expenses, food, and gave him books in 2000. Now he comes prancing in with his son the "new lawyer" and goes after me in a law suit. I believe this is probably his son's first case and they want to "clean up". He somehow has repeated his lies so many times that he now believes them.

CHARLENE: Next your attorney phones to tell you Zielinski wants to settle out of court. And this is where the story reminds me of an episode from the Twilight Zone. Your attorney's reaction to the settlement offer and his legal advice regarding the settlement is well, from a layman's perspective, totally against your best interests legal and otherwise! And that's putting it mildly. Explain the settlement offer, and include what you told your attorney your final decision is about Zielinski's settlement offer, and your attorney's reaction to your decision.

NOREEN: I was very disappointed that my attorney said it was a "good deal" to give Zielinski the remainder of all my books and the reprint rights. The only person it is a good deal for is Zielinski... it would but the Johnny Gosch Foundation out of business. We have done good work for children for the past 22 years and this was build on integrity and hard work by me. I can not and will not allow Zielinski to that that away. My son's kidnapping should stand for something good in this country. This is too important.

CHARLENE: Has your attorney finally seen the light?! If not-- I'd probably fire him!

NOREEN: I am afraid he still feels the same way. I am working on another strategy of my own.

CHARLENE: The depositions that were taken for Zielinski vs Gosch were done on December 17th 2004. During the depositions you presented the plaintiff's attorney with a document your husband had prepared and Mr. Zielinski had signed in 2000. Please describe what the document contained.

NOREEN: Zielinski's attorney was shocked when my attorney presented the document Zielinski signed on Oct. 30, 2000 in which he relinquished any/all rights to the book or to represent me or the Johnny Gosch Foundation in any way. We prepared this document and asked him to sign it after he made such an ass out of himself at the Private Investigator's Conference. I wanted to make it clear to him he could not go forth and represent me or the foundation in any way shape or form.

CHARLENE: Although there are clearly similarities with Zielinski's past M.O and what he's currently doing in your case, I also feel there is a major distinction to be made. Books about the Amish have a strong appeal and a strong niche following, especially illustrated books about Amish life showcasing bucolic landscapes with horse drawn buggies, hearth cooked food, handmade furniture and various other Amish crafts. A professionally illustrated book about the Amish could readily translate into a steady stream of income. Of course, I think Zielinski was chasing after money in his previous book/video bilking schemes. But in your case, I think his motive is slightly different. Why Johnny Can't Come Home isn't destined to be a big money maker (although it should be). Your excellent book won't be on many coffee tables in America. I'd venture to say most American's are not ready to hear about organized pedophilia, let alone the fact that their government, some well known politicians, the CIA, military and corporate elites are not only operating these child, sex slave rings, but are themselves pedophiles. So I think Mr. Zielinski has another motive here. Yeah, he's still after money, but not by stealing the rights to your book so he can sell it retail one book at a time. Have you considered the possibility that Mr. Zielinski is a front man for a hidden third party that has secretly hired Mr. Zielinski to acquire the rights to your book? This hidden third party could agree to pay Mr. Zielinski handsomely for his trouble, a lump sum that would garner him more money much faster than he could ever hope to make off selling your book retail. The payoff for the third party: They get to quash your book, to destroy it and forever keep it from the public. Or, reprint the book and revise it--adding disinformation, and misinformation--you get the picture. What do you think?

NOREEN: I totally agree with you and feel this is part of a much larger act... to permanently get my book out of circulation. The very idea that someone could drum up a lawsuit like this is an example why we need "reform" concerning this {U.S. legal system} in our country. Anyone can sue anyone, forcing the defendant to hire an attorney, pay thousands of dollars to protect/defend themselves. This is wrong wrong and wrong. They say everyone has their price and I feel Zielinski has been bought.

CHARLENE: In 1997 a miracle occurred. Johnny showed up at your apartment with a friend and visited with you for several hours. He told you he had escaped the sex-slave ring for the time being. He confided in you, and he recounted what had actually happened to him after his abduction; he pleaded with you to expose the people and the organization that had harmed him and that continues to harm many other children. What are some of the key points that Johnny shared with you that night? Did Johnny ask you to write a book about his kidnapping and forced participation as a sex slave in an elite controlled pedophile ring?

NOREEN: Johnny asked me to get his story out. Soon after he left that night, I decided to begin to put all of my journals, notes and already written chapters into book form. The time had come to tell Johnny's story. Johnny was here in 1997, I began within a few weeks of his visit.... Zielinski didn't contact me until Nov. 1999

Lastly, Fritz Springmeier's book on Illumaniti slaves has the following on the Amish:

The Top Secret Amish Front (And Hutterites)

"It will probably assist the reader to know that both of the authors have first hand experience with the following information about the Amish. Fritz was Amish for several years as an Amish church member in church districts in Kansas , Missouri , and Illinois . He has also visited numerous Amish settlements in the U.S. & Canada , and lived/worked with the horse and buggy Old Order Mennonites (not to be confused with the Old Order Amish Mennonites) in Ontario Canada for half a year.

He has a manuscript of a book that he wrote about the Old Order Amish Mennonites, and has gone so far as to inquire with publishers like National Geographic if they would like some of his material. He has also attended a variety of Mennonite churches, including Church of God in Christ, Menn. (Holdeman's), Charismatic Mennonite, Conserv. Menn. and Beachy Amish churches across the U.S.

He also knows first-hand that Illuminati slaves, some of who are programmers, have been infiltrated by the Illuminati into Mennonite churches. Perhaps what may come across as the strangest religious front, and it is certainly one of the biggest secrets of the intelligence agencies is their use of the Old Order Amish Mennonites as a front. The Amish are the most pacifistic people, so the Illuminati/intelligence agencies have placed some of their best programmed assassins behind the front of being Amish. The front is real--they are Amish, well, many of them, some were Illuminati children switched at birth to give the programmers better bloodlines to work from.

Some Amish women in cult families have let the Illuminati impregnate them with stronger bloodlines. Many Nazi bloodlines were hidden after WW II under the Mennonite/Amish cover. The Mennonites and some of the more progressive Amish adopt many children. The Amish in Missouri ( Jamestown ), Kansas (south of Hutchison), and Oklahoma ( Guthrie , OK ), Kentucky , Ohio (Holmes Co., OH), and Pennsylvania ( Lancaster , PA ) have been involved in selling their children to the Illuminati.

When the Illuminati would buy a child they would send in one of their own midwives to help with the birth and retrieve the child. Generally, the Amish would sell their children when they realized they were going to have twins. One would be given to the cult, and one would be kept by the Amish parents. Because these children are born outside of the system, and have no birth certificates, they made excellent children to use in porn. They also can be used as expendable children to use in porn. They were often blond haired and blue eyed. The Amish women were not allowed to use birth control, it was forbidden by the church, and they were not allowed to have an abortion, and it was their duty to have sex with their husbands. It is possible that some parents sold their children just to get out of the responsibility of having another child.

The Amish farms in Kansas and Oklahoma and in the border states like Missouri and Kentucky are mechanized with tractors, and they don't need the large families that the Amish in other places need. Due to the strong legalism that pervades their church, some have tried to get around the tight spot that the rules place them in by selling a few unnoticed children.

However, there is an active witchcraft practicing occult group within the Amish which is like a box within a box within a box. It is very secret. There are many ways of describing what is going on with the Amish. Let's describe quickly in half a page (it could be a book in itself) what a deep look at the spiritual dynamics of what is going on with their communities.

The rise of Satanism within their ranks is simply a natural outgrowth of the spiritual dynamics. There were two trees in the Garden of Eden, one was the Tree of Life and one was the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. The first meant being transformed by the Creator who made them into the image of the Spirit of God and receiving spiritual life, but the other tree was performance.

The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil (religion) includes both Law (good) and license (evil). As soon as a group gets legalistic, they fall from grace. They then separate themselves by their performance and say in effect "look at what we're doing" which is a form of pride. God resists the proud, so they through a number of spiritual dynamics lose fellowship with God. This means they must cling to their legalistic traditions even more, because a live relationship with God is gone. (Bible Studies are forbidden by most Amish church distrists, and they don't get new revelation from God, they still are working off of the revelations of the 1600s, when they were traumatized and quit growing. When they split from the rest of the Mennonites, they were like a child alter split which never grows up.)

When a group gets legalism, they also get license, because the two grow from the same tree. Every Amish community has two large groups--the legalistic ones and the license ones. The young people are even split this way. In Lancaster County , the "Groffies" is the nickname of the large license group of young people who fornicate and drink. There is a smaller group of legalistic conservative young people too, who are at the other end of the spectrum. There is one group (gang might be a more appropriate name) called Jamborees who are an unruly and destructive collection of angry wild young people. The Bishops in Lancaster Co. meet twice yearly to keep this large settlement of opposites together. A lot of compromise and looking the other way is done for the sake of peace. "Peace" at any price is the name of the game. Even before a prayer is said in church the minister calls out, "Wenn mer eenich sin, wella mer bete." This translates, "If we are in one accord, then let us pray." Because peace is so important, they are out of balance in getting it. They place peace far above truth. In order to have the appearance that everything is well, secrecy pervades everything like the air one breathes. Because their whole culture is secret, children raised in it aren't aware of how strong it is, it is simply a way of life, like it is for the Illuminati.

Legalism values conformity. Conformity prefers robotic obedience over understanding. In fact, one Bishop told Fritz, co-author of this book, "We don't want our young folks to understand why they do what they do, we only want obedience. Understanding is dangerous." Does the reader begin to see how the Amish make both the perfect setting for Monarch Mind-Control, and the perfect cover. The Amish are a very secret group. During their early history they suffered severe persecution. Their culture teaches them to suffer in silence, which today helps their Satanic abusers infiltrate their culture.

In the past in Europe , when the Catholic or Protestant church caught them they were tortured to death. They were hunted as animals and treated worse than animals when caught. This was the trauma, that Satan did to them, and the lie that was then handed them was that if they would cloister themselves secretly in the New World away from everyone else, they would be safe. The Amish have shut out from outsiders the true flavor of their culture and beliefs. They are silent about their problems. They tell themselves that outsiders couldn't possibly be interested in their affairs.

The Amish themselves are very divided from each other. The divisions between Amish groups is called Zwietract. Zwietract can cover anything from a mild aloofness to a full fledged shunning (called the Meidung). The Amish aren't in general qualified to tell outsiders much in detail about their own heritage, or religion because they are so isolated from the other Amish settlements and have been raised in such an anti-intellectual culture. Most Amish are content to know that the way they do things "was always done this way" and that their elders and forefathers were gifted men who examined things very closely. Their social norms are not intellectually questioned by most Amish, but then American society has been very isolationist in the world and few Americans question their society & norms.

Americans even rebel in the prescribed fashion, whatever the elite tell society is the "in" "cool" "hot" stylish way to do things. The Amish are similar to the Mid-east culture in that they have a very indirect approach to saying things. They do not consider it proper to speak with a negative connotation about anybody. They also instinctively give pat answers to outsiders to blunt questions. These pat answers border on being rigid, prejudiced, and simple. They serve the purpose to deter curiosity. The early Amish leaders were ex-Catholic priests, but most of the people were peasants who had little formal schooling, had little Bible knowledge, and came from southern Germany and the Rheinland where witchcraft was practiced by the common people.

The Spirit of Witchcraft never left the Amish. It has always been with them. The folk witchcraft is called Brauche, and the craft is kept secret by old men who pass the incantations down in secret. When the Amish moved to Pennsylvania , they moved in next door to Rosicrucians. When the Rosicrucian settlements fell apart they joined the Mennonites, thus bringing their hermetic magic along with them.

Somewhere within the Amish were some families that were under cover for the Jesuits, and were sent in as spies long ago because they were corrupt. These families have been generational Satanists, which practice pedophilia and other crimes in the safety of their isolation. They were placed within the Amish to help the Catholic church destroy the Amish.

In Europe that happened under Hitler, when all the Old Order Amish were arrested in 1938 and wiped out of Germany. Prior to WW II, the Nazi's part of the Illuminati sent over a number of programmed multiples which set up an unnamed cult in upstate New York . This cult was to help Hitler take power in the U.S. when the Nazi's won the war. They did not win the war, but 60 years later this Satanic cult still operates. Now 2nd and 3rd generation programmed multiples are now part of this cult.

Somehow this Illuminati mission coordinates with the Illuminati project to get Hitler's bloodline hidden among the Amish, although the authors are aware of Hitler's descendants being in Oregon , and Washington as well as Pennsylvania . One of them in Portland , Oregon works for the Federal government. Lancaster County is sometimes referred to as the mother church. This was one of the original counties which the Amish settled in when they first came over to the New World . William Penn invited Rosicrucians, Amish, and other dissident religious groups to Pennsylvania .

The Satanic covens in Lancaster County , PA consist of members from Amish, Mennonite and Brethren churches. They are not simply all Amish. Lancaster County 's Amish will fellowship will all the approximately 200 other settlements of Amish around the country. What is a peculiar phenomena, is that many churches that do not fellowship with one another, will still maintain "communion" with Lancaster out of respect for place in Amish history. However, Lancaster County has some of the most immoral reprobate Amish that there could be. All this is hidden very well from the thousands of tourists, due to the secrecy of the Amish.

The Amish do not often pay taxes, do not pay social security because they are exempt from the Social Security program, and send many of their children to Amish schools. They are truly a separate society which maintains rigid secrecy. If you were the New World Order or the Illuminati where would you want to hide your assassins? The safest place is inside of the most pacifist group in the world, the Amish. Monarch mind-controlled slaves are being created out of Amish children.

During W.W. II, Amish conscientious objectors were forced by the government to do alternate public service in lieu of military service. This was known as Civilian Public Service. Amish & Mennonite conscientious objectors were placed into Mental Hospitals to help. They served at Allentown State Hosp., Allentown, PA; Cantonsville State Hosp., Cantonsville, MD; Cleveland State Hosp., Cleveland, OH; Delaware State Hosp., Parnhurst, DL; Denver State Hosp., Denver, CO; Greystone Park State Hosp., Greystone Park, NJ; Harrisburg State Hosp., Harrisburg, PA; Hudson River State Hosp., Poughkeepsie, NY; Kalamazoo State Hosp., Kalamazoo, MI; Lima State Hosp., Lima, OH; Livermore State VA Hosp., Livermore, CA; Macedonia State Hosp., Macedonia, OH; Marlboro State Hosp., Marlboro, NJ; Mt. Pleasant State Hosp., Mt. Pleasant, 10; Norristown State Hosp., Norristown, PA; Provo State Hosp., Provo, UT; Rhode Is. State Hosp., Howard, RI; Roseburg VA State Hosp., Roseburg, OR; Staunton State Hosp., Staunton, VA; Tiffin State Hosp., Tiffin, OH; Wernersville State Hosp., Wernersville, PA; Ypsilanti State Hosp., Ypsilanti, MI.

The author, Fritz, believes that the complete story of how the Illuminati got a secret foothold into the Amish community lies in what happened in mental hospitals to the anxious-to-please, compliant, innocent Amish boys, who were assigned to these mental hospitals. Many people do not realize that during W.W. I, several Mennonite/Hutterite conscientious objectors were tortured to death by our government. Not a pretty picture when you find out how sadistic our government was willing to be toward its own citizens. Not only did the Amish boys go to lots of mental hospitals during W.W. II, but all of the religious groups that participated in the conscientious objector service (called Civilian Public Service) contributed boys to the Office of Scientific Research & Development (part of the Army), which was still using these boys for experiments until Dec. 31, 1946.

What kinds of "experiments" were the Amish boys, who were offered up as guinea pigs, subjected to by the OSRD? We now know that some of these experiments were very dangerous to their human guinea pigs. 1-0 classification was the Selective Service Board's Conscientious Objector classification. During the Vietnam War, Amish young men went into I-W service (conscientious objector service) at mental and regular hospitals. Their I-W service was for two years. Some of these young men were programmed at these hospitals. One Amish boy after he got home from I-W service committed suicide.

The secret satanic families within various Amish settlements also offered up their children. This started a large scale super secret operation by the CIA/Intelligence agencies to set up Delta teams within the Amish. Who would ever suspect an Amishman? They have been expendable assassins for the CIA for years. These young men are strong farm boys. They have no connection between themselves and the outside world where they secretly carry out their missions, and if they die, there is no birth record, and perhaps a dozen other siblings for their family to continue on with.

During the Vietnam War, the Military's Selective Service did things differently than in W.W.II. Any hospital or mental hospital which applied for approval could get I-W (conscientious objector) boys. The Amish put together a Steering Committee to work with the government and the I-W service. In the I-W Steering Committee meetings (and the author Fritz attended one) it was stated by Committee members "The boys do not come back the same [from the hospitals]" and that the I-W service in the mental hospitals was "proving unsatisfactory and harmful."

Some of the mental hospitals which received Amish boys include Columbia Missouri's State Mental Hospital & Hospital complex, Colorado Psychopathic Hospital in Denver, all of the hospitals that got W.W. III-Ws (as listed above), Central State Hospital, Indianpolis, IND, New Jersey State Hospital, Greystone Park, NJ, Philadelphia State Hospital, Philadelphia, PA, plus numerous others. At any one time, there were hundreds of Amish boys in I-W service.

It is suspected that many of these hospitals were involved in mind-control, and it is known that the Columbia , MO complex of hospitals and Mid-Missouri State Mental Hospital , 803 Stadium Dr. , Columbia , Missouri and the Veteran's Hospital across the street were involved in mind-control for the CIA.

A mental hospital had to apply to the Selective Service Board for approval to get I-W workers. Then their personnel departments would hire the I-W boys for positions such as nursing attendants. One State Mental Hospital administrator told Fritz that the whole I-W thing was "pretty confidential."

The Amish Steering Committee worked with the Mennonite Central Committee (MCC) which in turn worked for some quasi-religious group which is privately funded called The National Service Board of Religious Objectors (NSBRO) still active in Washington , D.C. The Amish were slow to act, but by the end of the Vietnam War, they had managed to get some of their farms approved for I-W service and in 1971, the Steering Committee was able to announce that 70 Amish I-W boys were working on Amish farms in 8 states, rather than in hospitals. However, this late change was too late to protect their settlements from infiltration from sophisticated Illuminati mind-control.

How It Is Done

A programmed Amish boy will likely be contacted by what is called a "CUT-OUT''. This is the secret contact person who maintains contact between the Handler and the Amish Delta. CUT-OUT's can either be given several slaves (a BLOCK CUT-OUT) or in other cases only know the up-line handler and down-line person (a CHAIN CUT-OUT).

If further secrecy is needed by the handler, he can use ''sterile telephones'' which the Illuminati/CIA have which cannot be traced, even by the telephone companies. When an Amish boy is activated and sent out on an assassination mission for the Illuminati/Intelligence agencies he is a professional at what he has been trained and programmed to do.

Amish boys, programmed to be assassins, are used in what their handlers call "wet ops". This intelligence lingo means that human blood will run. Wet ops, also called black ops, are debriefed by a briefing team. The Amish multiple will have to give a detailed account of the finished operation, once under hypnosis, once with a polygraph, and once under the drug scopolamine (a truth serum). And when the debriefing team, which includes a Mind-control Programmer, is satisfied that all of the inconsistencies between the different accounts have been ironed out, then the Programmer will block out all memory and guilt of the operation. The handler may write a "blind memorandum" which has no file no. or letterhead or name.

Then Amish boy's assassination alters will be praised for having done a great service to humanity and to his country. The Amish boy can now be sent home to milk cows and work on his labor-intensive tobacco farm without any nagging guilt or horrible memories surfacing to trouble him (at least in theory). Trained assassins do have memory flashes, as all Monarch slaves have, but they are only bits and pieces.

People also do not realize that the Amish live in many more states than Pennsylvania . They move all over the United States . If an Amishman was travelling on a CIA mission there are numerous of excuses that could be made for why he could be on the move. There are far more Amish young people away from the Amish settlements than people realize because they dress like the world.

Many young people leave with the knowledge that they can go back years later and be accepted back into their community. What are some of the mitigating factors in all of this?

The Amish do their own butchering. They are down-to-earth people who are not afraid of blood. Essentially all Amish children grow up helping with butchering, and seeing life and death played out everyday on their farms. The Amish do not embalm their dead, and have their own cemeteries. The Satanic cult within the Amish can reopen the graves and carry out satanic ceremonies afterward. Their cemeteries are small almost hidden sites with markers hidden in grass. Some of these graveyards blend in with their rural settings.

Elmo, Joseph, and Victor Stoll are some prominent Amish men. Joseph and Elmo have traveled a great deal esp. to Central America . Joseph wrote a book on Child Training which teaches parents how to break a child's will. This author is supportive of discipline and respect. The book is pointed out, only because it is a paper trail to show that the Amish discipline and the Illuminati's discipline at times can be similar. The only person who might see an Amish boy being disciplined (since they are a rural people) would be the immediate family or an occasional Amish guest. An Amish man seeing a father carrying out the Monarch steps to build dissociation would likely not see anything wrong. If the guest did see something wrong (i.e. too strict or mean), the objections would be kept very low key. For sure, no non-Amish would ever hear about it.

The Illuminati families like the Dukes and Reynolds control tobacco production and cigarette manufacturing. In order to keep their lifestyle in Pennsylvania , the Amish have had to grow tobacco for the Illuminati controlled companies. This author can only speculate what economic leverage that has given the Illuminati over the Pennsylvania Amish."

http://www.whale.to/b/sp/for1.html

10/05/2006 02:37:00 PM  
Anonymous Shrubageddon said...

According to Jeff, apparently Gannon posts anonymously to RI. I bet he's the Anony who has it in for me.

Whew.......I sure am glad we're in Cyberspace.

I have my Virginity to protect, afterall.

10/05/2006 03:42:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

Generally, the Amish would sell their children when they realized they were going to have twins.

Generally, I think that these CUT-OUT Illuminati NewsFlashes!! are written by morons who either feel some need to reduce the world to table-top game dimensions or else have some further purpose, such as disinformation, spreading panic and deep-seated uneasiness. Most Amish do not "generally" sell their children, worship Satan, carry secret Nazi genes or any of the rest of that crap. I will grant the possiblity that some or all of those things have or do happen, on a very infrequent basis (probably somewhat less often than true believers of what David Icke is selling think their own thoughts, which puts it in the near never column), but for any sane person to believe that this crap is emblematic of Amish life is ridiculous.

I got to know some Amish folk personally once by the simple means of speaking a dialect of German that wasn't far different from what they spoke, at least in terms of regional accent, etc. They were just as I'd imagined they'd be, except friendlier (although that may have been on account of my speaking Schwäbisch and having my kids reasonably well behaved.)

Why would Fritz or Mr. Icke present the Amish in this light? Well, for starters, it's easy, since they aren't going to defend themselves, and intellectual rigor isn't something Mr. Sticky for one is into much. How about the fact that they're different? That they don't buy into the American Myth--never have--that they represent just about everything that the overlords are selling? (Consumerism, patriotism, militarism, politics...the list is very long.) Of course they're suspect! Can you imagine how the overlords would conduct their business if pacifism and sustainability became popular with the McMasses? But of course Mr. Icke couldn't have been influenced by any Mockingbird-type program run by the acronym agencies, now could he? Nor the estimable Fritz, one can only assume; it's far more logical to assume that these weirdo genuinely religious cults must all be secretly dancing with goats on ritual moonlit nights than to suppose that a few highly respected scholars and journalists could have been tampered with, right?

10/05/2006 03:53:00 PM  
Anonymous starroute said...

shrub -

I can't get the audio of that Weyrich et al statement to play (I think some of my Firefox plugins are plugged in backwards...or whatever), but I was amused by this from the transcript:

We are very concerned that the early warnings of Mr. Foley's odd behavior toward young male pages may have been overlooked or treated with deference, fearing a backlash from the radical gay rights movement because of Mr. Foley's sexual orientation. It appears that the integrity of the conservative majority has given way to political correctness, trading the virtues of decency and respect for that of tolerance and diversity. No one should be surprised at the results of such a tragic exchange.

Because we all know how sensitive the GOP House leadership is to the concerns of the radical gay rights movement. Riiiiight.

I'll agree with one part of it, though, and that is that the conservative majority is sadly short on decency and respect.

10/05/2006 04:04:00 PM  
Anonymous Shrubageddon said...

The Anony has it all worng, IC.

Anybody who knows anything knows The Cloistered Poor Clare Nuns are the REAL Illuminati.

10/05/2006 04:09:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

And from the land of the rising sun comes this disturbing if insightfull reflection of changing behaviors and attitudes there. The cultural trappings may differ but the underlying psychology...???

A Plain School Uniform as the Latest Aphrodisiac
By Nicholas D. Kristof

TOKYO, April 1 -- With a shy, quivering glance that she had practiced a thousand times, eyes slightly downcast but luminous with innocence and apprehension, Kaori sat at her desk in her prim school uniform, framed by a blackboard, waiting for a 'teacher' to walk into the classroom and rip her clothes off.

It looks like a real classroom, and baby-faced Kaori looks just like a real Japanese schoolgirl. But it is all make-believe, for here in Japan the best way for a prostitute to recruit clients is to put on a school uniform and adopt the naive anxiety of a frightened schoolgirl.

'Japanese men tend to be obsessed by schoolgirls,' said Kaori, who would not give her last name but cheerfully conceded she is really 26. 'The men who come here are looking for submissive schoolgirls.'

This is an "image club," one of several hundred in Tokyo where Japanese men pay about $150 an hour to live out their fantasies about schoolgirls. In this club, customers can choose from 11 rooms, including classrooms, a school gym changing room, and a couple of imitation railroad cars where to the recorded roar of a commuter train, men can molest straphangers in school uniforms.

Behind the image clubs is a disturbing national obsession with schoolgirls as sexual objects. Far more than in most other countries, men in Japan seem to find schoolgirls sexually alluring -- and, by all accounts, the target age is getting steadily younger.

The sexuality of schoolgirls has become an issue in Japan over the last year or so because a growing number are turning to prostitution to raise pocket money. But most of the disapproval has been directed at the girls rather than at their middle-aged customers, and in any case it is legal in Tokyo for men to have sex with children over the age of 12.

Many Japanese, particularly women, say they are deeply troubled by this obsession with schoolgirls. Yet by international standards there is remarkably little domestic outrage in Japan at what people here call Loli-con, or the Lolita Complex, after Nabokov's novel about a middle-aged man's obsession with a young girl.

What is the appeal of very young girls?

'Lots of Japanese men feel very threatened by adult women,' said Masao Miyamoto, a male psychiatrist and the author of a best-selling analysis of Japanese society. 'But a 15-year-old girl would not be threatening. It's not so much sexual as psychological.'

Dr. Miyamoto and others say the discomfort that many men have with women their own age is in part a consequence of the growing sophistication of Japanese women. While most men slave over their jobs and take almost no vacation, a growing number of young women find they have the time to travel abroad, to read books, to go to concerts or to take evening classes.

A result is that while several decades ago most middle-aged men still felt more worldly than the women they encountered, now the opposite is often true. So to seek comfort and relaxation, the analysts say, the men turn to the only females over whom they can still plausibly feel some edge -- schoolgirls.

'In associating with young girls, men want to behave in an overbearing way,' said Rika Kayama, a female psychiatrist and social commentator. 'They want to position themselves as superior to the girls.'

Several decades ago, sexual fantasies centered on 'office ladies' in their 20's. Then the focus became college women, and a few years ago it shifted to high-school girls.

Now the focus is on junior-high-school girls.

'The age at which the girls seem interesting is clearly dropping,' said Hiroyuki Fukuda, a 30-year-old man who edits a magazine called Anatomical Illustrations of Junior High School Girls. 'But it's only the maniacs who go for girls below the third grade.'

Two years ago Mr. Fukuda founded a new magazine, V-Club, that is full of pictures of naked elementary-school girls.

'There is no law, so far as we know of, to punish such conduct directly,' a police spokesman said. Laws against obscenity and regulations for the protection of children can be used against child pornography, but this is rare.

To be sure, Japan is without doubt a safer place for children than America. Groping of teen-age girls on crowded subways is very common in Japan -- 69 percent of high-school girls said in a recent poll that they had been abused in that way -- but most other crimes are much rarer in Japan than in other industrialized countries. While there is doubt about the reporting, only about one-thirtieth as many rapes are reported per capita in Japan as in America.

Most of the attention in the Japanese press lately has focused on schoolgirl prostitution. A survey last year in Tokyo found that more than 25 percent of junior-high girls had called 'telephone clubs' -- pornographic services that pay girls to have erotic conversations with men.

Nearly 4 percent of all junior-high girls said they had accepted money in exchange for 'dates' with men.

'I think it's O.K. as long as they pay me,' said Yuki Shinohara, 16, who said she dated men for money but had not slept with them.

Girls like Miss Shinohara are acutely aware that because of their youth they are a sought-after 'brand' in a brand-conscious society. Miss Shinohara said she is already over the hill -- 15 is the best age for a woman in Japan, she believes -- and that her sparkle will be all gone by the time she graduates from high school and gives up her uniform.

Told that she would still be young after graduating from high school, Miss Shinohara shook her head sadly.

"Oh, no," she said. "After graduation, we'll be old ladies."

10/05/2006 05:01:00 PM  
Anonymous Shrubageddon said...

All is not lost......she might lose the uniform...but she can always gain a press pass if she shaves her head, calls herself Bulldog and grows a Twig & Berries.

10/05/2006 05:11:00 PM  
Anonymous Oarwell said...

"{use of 3 names indicates MK ultra programming}"

Sharp observation. Like Sirhan Sirhan Sirhan. Or John Hinckley Hinckley. Or, um, John Wilkes Booth. He was MKULtra, yes? And Leon Doom Czolgosz, and John Zarathustra Schrank, and Giuseppe Tamale Zangara, and Griselio Cheesefoot Torresola.

Don't forget Richard Paul "Postal" Pavlick, the suicide bomber with a soft spot. Or Squeaky Eeky Fromme.

Then there was Samuel "Joseph" Byck, who was going to crash a commercial airliner into the White House to kill Dick Nixon. He had a middle name, too.

We obviously can detect these people rather easily: they have middle names.

10/05/2006 05:25:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

iridescent --

Heidenei!!!

"I schwaetz Schwaebisch. Du au?"

So went the phrase on a bumper sticker I used to sport on a former vehicle of mine, and it was fun to come back to my parked vehicle and find the occasional anonymous note tucked under the windshield, written in Swabian dialect.

Thanks for your post about the Amish. What a load of horse hockey that cut-and-paste slur of the Amish was (with no documentation or citation, natch!).

Many moons ago I helped put together an academic conference about Amish culture. Much of the focus was on the rich language, the Swabian-like dialect and its colorful idioms. I lived not far from Lancaster County at the time, and had often had brief contact with Amish folks, but the conference experience was very educational concerning the details of their everyday life.

If the Amish are angry and "subversive" about anything, they are angry about the ever-accelerating intrusiveness of the "English" around them. Recent years of a hot bubbly real estate market have helped to drive encroachment into their territory with "McMansion" development, because the landscape is so "pretty." This will, of course, destroy a landscape that is so beautiful because of its use as functional farmland.

You are right, it's very easy to accuse the Amish of *anything,* as they won't fight back. They become a blank slate onto which the average "English" can project all sorts of prejudices. They are, after all, so "different."

Thanks for sticking up for those who can't stick up for themselves in the media maelstrom.

10/05/2006 05:45:00 PM  
Blogger Sounder said...

chillin said;
“BTW, does anyone have the slightest clue of what 'the spooky realm of anti-matter' is supposed to be? “

Dualism produces a sharp boundary between the tangible and the non-tangible. One result is that we study the gross or large element and think that it is always the smallest and most fundamental.

If we were to come at it from the other direction then we may see that there is plenty of stuff to fill the ‘vacuum’ of space.

This would suggest a formal materialism, and that it has been supremely silly (anthropocentric) to limit materiality to the stuff that we can measure.

10/05/2006 06:06:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

""Shrubageddon said..""

from all the stupid comments(that dont further the conversation[re-rounting focus]} you've been making I think you are Gannon. Or maybe Gannon is pretending to be Shrubageddon

10/05/2006 06:15:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

quote:

"What a load of horse hockey that cut-and-paste slur of the Amish was (with no documentation or citation, natch!)."

Stop whistling past (some) Amish graveyards.

Obviously, as Jeff inserted a "some" in front of 'occult' a while ago instead of the assumption of all occult organiztaions, understand Springmeier works are built from multiple high level outs fleeing the Illuminati structure and others who come forward, some whom regardless have ended up in jail or outright murdered as either political prisoners in the United States or just straight hits.

And jail, I believe is exactly where Springmeier still is actually.

The FBI raided his property to stop the third edition with all the high level outs information [which, unrelated to their investigation, they stole some Rockefeller notes, interestingly enough, according to Springmeier in an interview...and then they raided him once more on trumped up charges by to stop him from writing the second companion volume described below.

The fact that some cluck-clucking bozos (RigInt readers, of all things) still have a mental block on this is classic doublethink behavior.

"Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them."
George Orwell, from his book "1984"

So you chat calmly about the concept of 'mind control,' and you know its real (only about 60 years of human experimentation by Nazis and then into the U.S. CIA) and you roll your eyes at the concept of 'mind controllers'? One follows from the other, unless you like doublethinking.

quote from Springmeier's third edition (2002):

One of the bloodlines goes back to Babylon and are descendent from Nimrod. Down through the years the occult world has remained hidden from the history books. (Publishing and education have been controlled privileges.)

They have ruled behind the scenes. The Mystery Religions each had their secret councils which ruled them, and these councils themselves came under the guidance of a secret supreme Grand Council or Governing Body. The Mystery Religions in turn ruled the masses and the political leaders. When I first began investigating the Illuminati a clear picture developed that the history books were doctored, and that great power was concentrated in the hands of oligarchies around the world. But who were these powerful people? I have been repeatedly asked, "If there is a conspiracy who are the conspirators?" That is what this book is about.

The history books are full of information about the elites and the masses. Interestingly, upon very close scrutiny and examination the investigator finds that the elite have perpetuated their power for centuries, and have worked hand in glove with other elites to control the masses.

When seen in better light, wars between kings no longer appear as wars between elite factions, but contrived wars to control the masses by their greedy elite masters. But who are these people?

The answer may not be the answer some might expect, because power comes in many shapes and sizes.

Power doesn't have to have high visibility to be active. In fact, due to the evil dark nature of these evil bloodlines they have traditionally tried to remain secret. I am indebted to people who have stepped out of the generational Satanic bloodlines of the Illuminati and who have given their lives to Christ for many of the tips which got my investigations on the right track. This book tells what many witnesses of generational Satanism would like to tell, but are too intimidated to tell. Witnesses like Tom Collins, and John Todd, and David Hill have tried to testify what they themselves saw--they each were destroyed.

But the truth will not die with Tom Collins or David Hill.

The truth did not go out of fashion just because John Todd was framed and dishonored by the Illuminati's henchmen.

Several people from different places have confirmed that there are 13 Illuminati bloodlines.

Further, several ex-Illuminati people have confirmed my list of 13 families.

It is possible that my list is off on a name or two, but if it might be off, it can not be off much, if any.

I believe the facts speak for
themselves. As you study these bloodlines you will also see how powerful they are.

David Hill, who was investigating the Illuminati, lost his life because he had been close to the inside as a high ranking Freemason who worked for the Mafia.

I received David Hill's research manuscript two years after I had begun reporting on the 13 families.

David Hill had done what I had originally done.

He had asked questions and began to dig into who pulled the strings in this country. Both David and I discovered the names of some of the more obvious powerful families. For instance, in David's notes he writes, "Yes, it is a fact: the Mellons, Carnegies, Rothschilds, Rockefellers, Dukes, Astors, Dorrances, Reynoldses, Stilimans, Bakers, Pynes, Cuilmans, Watsons, Tukes, Kleinworts, DuPonts, Warburgs, Phippses, Graces, Guggenheims, Milners, Drexels, Winthrops, Vanderbilts, Whitneys, Harknesses and other super rich Illuminated families generally get along quite well with Communists, who supposedly want to take away the wealth of these men and give it to the people.

However, this is only double talk designed to bolster the superstructure of delusion that Communists are the enemies of all Capitalists. But Communists, like the super rich families, are not the enemies of MONOPOLY CAPITALISM: they are the foes of FREE ENTERPRISE." (Untitled manuscript of David Hill, p. 215.)


[And you have another case of doublethink if you can read Antony Sutton calmly with his State department documentation of New York banker staff funding and appointing some high Soviet officials directly from New York banks (in Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution (1973 book)), though you cluck-cluck at this. It's the same.]

My research had already entered another dimension beyond David Hill's, because people trying to escape being part of the Illuminati had given me the 13 family names. But each round of validation I have received is a pleasant encouragement that others have seen the same things. It was a pleasant surprise to see that this researcher had singled out some of the same families as I had. Some of the allied families if not all of them probably have intermarried somewhere with one of these bloodlines.

Because this book is a collection of things which I have written over the years allow me to review what was written. In 1991, I first self-published my Be Wise As Serpents manuscript which exposed the top 13 families.

In 1992, I began my newsletter to continue exposing the Illuminati, and came out with some monographs exposing the Monarch Mind Control program and the Illuminati Plans/methods to create earthquakes.

From the mid-Dec. '92 newsletter up to the most recent ones in 1995, I have ran feature articles exposing the different top 13 families.

This book is a collection of things, I, Fritz Springmeier, wrote between 1991 and 1995 about the top 13 families.

[stopped by trumped up charges:]

PREVIEW OF VOL. 2 Besides feature articles about the top 13 families, I have also written articles about the Illuminati in general. When I went to assemble what I had written on the 13 families, I realized that much of what I'd said was in the content of articles about the Illuminati in general. I made the decision to use the approximately 250 pages I'd written specifically about the 13 families as Book #1, and what I had written in general about the families, which was also 200 plus pages as Book #2.

[The halted] Volume two will explain how the Illuminati control the world, and what some of their beliefs are, and about their secret and semi-secret organizations.

The two books will provide perhaps the most indepth complete picture of the 13 top Illuminati families that has been done to date.

In fact, I know of no other book which is devoted to exposing the top 13 Illuminati families. In Volume two, you will read [would have read] about Illuminati life, Illuminati control, and Illuminati organizations including the ACL, the Bohemian Grove, the Cosmos Club, the CFR, the Club of Rome, the Council of 9, the Council of 13 which is the Grand Druid Council, the Jason Society, the Jason Group, the Ordo Saturis, the OTO groups, MI-6, MJ-12, the Mothers of Darkness, the Pilgrim Society, the Prieure de Sion, the Process Church, the Sanhedrin, the Temple of Power, and other groups.

These two books will give the details behind what was written, "the whole world lieth in wickedness" and that the god of this world is in its full reality Satan.
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Rotunda/4027/comments_by_fritz.htm

AND A BIT ON THE TRUMPED UP CHARGES AND FRAMING OF SPRINGMEIER TO STOP THE SECOND VOLUME

AS WELL AS WHERE ELSE YOU CAN GO TO GET BANNED "SECOND VOLUME" INFORMATION THAT HAS COME OUT REGARDLESS OF SPRINGMEIER

Rebuttal To The KATU News Report
Regarding My Husband, Fritz Springmeier


"I'm innocent. I'm looking forward to discovering the divine benefits of the sentence that you give me.
If the Government is trying to ruin my life, they will have to try harder."
-Author Fritz Springmeier, at November 13, 1003 Sentencing

"Just before sentencing Springmeier told the judge that the government had destroyed his life."
-Paraphrased quotation falsely attributed to Springmeier by authors Eric Mason and John Stevens in the KATU News Report on November 13, 2003


The above two statements stand in stark contrast to one another. The actual statement (blue text) was spoken by the most courageous man I have ever met in my life. The paraphrased statement (brown text) is a fiction that was attributed to the same man--my husband, Fritz Springmeier--by Eric Mason of KATU News (the local CBS affiliate) and John Stevens of International News in their KATU News report.

How Mason and Stevens sat together in the courtroom, right behind me, with notebooks and pens in hand and yet bungled so audible a statement is beyond my comprehension. For the purpose of this rebuttal, KATU's statements will be in brown and my response will be in blue.

Prior to sentencing, we had originally wanted to forward a simple communication from Fritz to let you all know that everything is OK and that we are seeking a retrial through several justifications.

However, because there was so much fiendish innuendo and so many blatant lies contained in the KATU / Stevens report; we are obligated at this point to simply refute each false allegation one-by-one. I must add that in view of the latitude given law enforcement since the RICO act and 911, if they truly had such evidence against my husband, he would be charged and tried for Conspiracy to Commit Terrorist Acts. District attorney Frank Noonan says that "We had to have more to make that kind of a case".

Thus, the real agenda for spreading such yellow journalism locally, is that it will ruin Fritz' chances for getting an untainted jury should one of the the appeals be successful-and of course-bring mainstream recognition to the so-called journalist, John Stevens. So, what about this "evidence"?

"A list of possible terror targets compiled by an ultra-right wing group, including government buildings and other facilities were made public Thursday as a federal judge sentenced a Portland area man for his part in a 1997 bank robbery."

FACT: This statement makes it sound as if the judge included it in his sentencing decree--which he did not. Furthermore, none of this "evidence" was spoken of at all in the courtroom. Notice how the article and video contain the typical "cover-your-legal-rear-end" qualifiers such as "possible terror targets", "evidence suggesting" and accusations disguised as questions.


"After the sentencing of Fritz Springmeier, a self-described religious author, Clackamas County Sheriff deputies revealed a loose-leaf binder seized in 2001 as a part of the case."

FACT: The loose-leaf binder was found on the Huntington property where Tony Huntington and Forrest Bateman lived. The handwriting in the loose-leaf binder is definitely not Fritz'. Furthermore, although Fritz makes no secret that he is a Christian, he has never described himself as a religious author.


The video presentation shows a cache of illegal weapons, an Army of God armband and the loose-leaf binder, all obtained during a raid, leaving the viewer to assume that these items were found on our property. An anonymous source, interviewed gives the same laundry list.

FACT: Again, all were items found on the Huntington property. [though Springmerers' home was raided and his second volume notes dispersed and taken.]

TONY HUNTINGTON--The Missing Link

Conspicuously absent from the report is any mention of Tony Huntington, on whose mother's property all of the "evidence" used in KATU's report was found.

Huntington and Bateman (Bateman rented a room in an out-building on the property) had been friends since childhood and lived on Huntington's mother's property. For five months after the Feds raided his place, Huntington lived with the knowledge that the illegal arsenal and 50 plant pot grow (complete with power diversion) would net him an approximately 120 year sentence.

Thus, five months after authorities raided his house, Huntington decided to finger Fritz for the Damascus Key Bank robbery in 1997 in exchange for leniency.

Although KATU's report on Fritz mentions Bateman as one of the Key Bank robbers, missing [as well] is the fact that as prosecution's principal witness against Fritz--Huntington perjured himself on the stand by admitting to having taken an active role in the robbery on the day of the robbery.

Huntington received a paltry 3 ½ years for his testimony against Fritz.

Another of Huntington's lies which was not revealed in the courtroom, but was contained within the discovery paperwork for the case, is that Fritz used the robbery funds to finance a trip to Japan to promote his "Bloodlines of the Illuminati" book.

When Reverend Izumi Koishi heard of this allegation he made two unsuccessful attempts to fly to Portland from Japan at his own expense, in order to appear in court to refute Huntington's assertion with cold, hard evidence. Sadly, the trial date kept moving around, so that Reverend Koishi lost money on two sets of non-refundable flight tickets. Fritz' former attorneys kept waffling on the decision of whether to let Koishi testify.

However, before the third attempt was made by Koishi to appear, Fritz' attorneys decided not to let Koishi testify.

After the guilty verdict was handed down, Reverend Koishi then flew in to offer support.

He also brought the evidence that he would have shown in court--a receipt for a Citibank draft in the amount of $2,000 USD made out to Fritz so that he could give a talk about "Bloodlines of the Illuminati", which consequently got published in Japanese. Fritz' Japanese supporter's paid full perdiem on Fritz' visit. Not only did Fritz not have to spend one penny of his own from the moment he boarded the plane to go over there, he received a $2,000 fee for speaking.

"Springmeier, a white separatist known for his anti-government writings..."

FACT: Fritz has never been a white separatist and, in fact, has a "rainbow coalition" of friends and supporters. His writings can be characterised as exposing the illuminati and anti-corrupt government.


"ultra right wing extremist Fritz Springmeier."

FACT: Fritz is neither left wing or right wing. "Ultra right wing extremist", "white separatist", these are smear labels used by lazy journalists.


From Video-"Fritz Springmeier considered himself a member of a loose-knit group known as the Army of God. Experts on US hate groups say the Army of God is a loose-knit group with no formal membership rolls."


FACT: First of all, notice that the above statement contains built in deniability--"loose-knit group" and "no formal membership rolls". These two qualifiers mean that they have absolutely no proof that Fritz belongs to the Army of God. Moreover, Fritz has never considered himself a member of the Army of God and every longterm friend of Fritz' that I have asked about this, not only denied it, but laughed at the thought of it.



In summation, the entire piece was done to smear Fritz and to ruin his chances for a fair retrial. Finally, while KATU is correct in stating that Fritz has been critical of mainstream media, he would never plot to bomb their studio. The mainstream media should look to themselves as the possible source of their own destruction.

Fritz and I will continue to seek justice and to vindicate his innocence. We look forward to the appeals.

http://www.pentracks.com/rebutt/rebuttal.htm


Fritz Springmeier Update - August 13, 2003


Hi Everyone,

There are two late breaking events regarding Fritz. One is good news and the other is not so good news. So I'll give the good news first. The Feds have approved of funds for an investigator pre-sentencing, which is fantastic. This means that they see some merit in Fritz' new attorney fighting for a retrial before sentencing, or they would have refused the funds. This new attorney has his trip together. Within two weeks of receiving the 318 page transcript and 650 pages of discovery, he had everything scanned and burned onto a CD. He interviewed Fritz for four hours and once he got the investigator, the investigator interviewed him for three hours. It is such a relief to have someone who cares! We are hoping that it is uphill from here so please keep us in your prayers—they are obviously helping.

Well, now for the bad news. One of the inmates assaulted Fritz last Wednesday, so they both got thrown into solitary confinement. Fritz tells me that he took a beating, but that he's OK. It's heartbreaking to be in a situation where you can't protect or comfort your loved one. The last I spoke to him was Wednesday and heard nothing until yesterday (Tuesday) when I got a letter from him. When he didn't call on Monday, I knew something was wrong. I've included an excerpt from his letter detailing the event in this update. If you've been thinking of writing to him lately, now would be the perfect time. Below is the contact info. for Fritz. You can send him letters and postcards only. If you want to put money on his books for stamps, batteries for his radio or other commisary items, it must be a postal money order made out to him with his Federal ID number. If you wish to send books, they must be purchased and sent from the retailer. Magazines can be sent by subscription only. Just know that they read every letter that comes in, therefore, it may take several extra days to get to him because of the processing. Here is his address:

Fritz Springmeier 65941-065
FDC Sheridan
P.O. Box 6000
Sheridan, OR 97378

The number following his name is his federal ID number. He would love to hear from all of you.



-----------------------------

September 11, 2003

Just a quick note to tell you all two pieces of good news regarding Fritz' legal situation. First--Fritz is now out of solitary confinement and is back with the general population. Address any mail you wish to send to him to the original Sheridan address:

Fritz Springmeier 65941-065
FDC Sheridan
P.O. Box 6000
Sheridan, OR 97378

The second piece of good news is that his attorney has gotten the sentencing postponed to November 13, 2003, in order to give more time for investigation. Your letters and support meant so much to both of us and really made all the difference in getting Fritz through a tough time. Many thank-you's from the bottom of our hearts!

Patty

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Rotunda/4027/Fritz_update.htm

INTERVIEW w/Fritz Springmeier on trauma-based dissociative identity disorder[ ILLUMINATI ]

Good morning, welcome to the International Connection. This is show #35 in the radio series on Mind Control and over the next few shows we are going to be talking to Fritz Springmeier and Cisco Wheeler, co-authors of the "Illuminati Formula Used to Create an Undetectable Total Mind Control Slave" and "Deeper Insights", books about trauma based conditioning mind control.

Fritz is a researcher about the Illuminati and minister to mind control victims.

Cisco Wheeler says she is from a generational Illuminati family and that trauma-based mind control was perpetrated against her from birth.

We will hear the interview with Cisco in a couple of weeks, and today we are going to hear an interview with Fritz Springmeier.

Fritz talks about the Illuminati families and how they have used mind control to consolidate their power throughout history. You are listening to CKLN 88.1 FM.

"...a large percentage of these people are programmed multiple personalities and just that in itself creates a whole different thinking pattern from those of us who are not multiple."

[and later, information on the US (Illuminated) federal government's attempt to frame him and stop the publication of his second companion book...which landed him in jail on trumped up charges, then he was almost killed in jail--just like one of his major high level "outs" from the Collins family actually... And Just make that "some Collins" instead of all Collins of course.]

Bloodlines of the Illuminati, Third Edition: author currently framed/jailed

Bloodlines of the Illuminati (Third Edition), 2002
By Fritz Springmeier
624 Pages
http://www.store.yahoo.com/infowars-shop/test.html

NOT AVAILABLE ON AMAZON IN UK, FRANCE, OR GERMANY... BANNED?

REVIEW: Who really controls world events from behind-the-scene? Years of extensive research and investigation have gone into this massively documented work. In this 624 page, large format book, Fritz Springmeier discloses mind-boggling facts and never before revealed truths about the top Illuminati dynasties. Discover the amazing role these bloodlines have played—-and are now wielding—-in human history, with family names such as Astor, DuPont, Kennedy, Onassis, Rockefeller, Rothschild, Russell, Van Duyn, and Krupp.

You'll also learn of the secretive Chinese Li family, which operates with impunity in the U.S.A. and around the world. Along the way you'll find out why President John F. Kennedy and actress Grace Kelly were killed; who created the United Nations; who controls the two major U.S. political parties; how the Rothschilds invented and control modern-day Israel; who secretly founded false religions such as the Jehovah's Witnesses; and much, much more. A literal encyclopedia of rare, unbelievable information! This is the third and latest edition of this book. The author has added over forty pages of information to his previous work. This updated edition is based on much more research and many, MANY ex-Illuminists from the families themselves and from associated occult groups (even Grand Masters of Illuminized OTO lodges) who have 'defected' from the Illuminati. They helped fill in much information.

Even an earlier FBI raid of his office/home failed to stop this updated edition coming out...even though he lost some notes on the Rockefellers... [articles about that after the interview]

Welcome to your world, already in progress.

Title: Once In The Bowels Of The Vatican And Illuminati, Svali speaks of Illuminati double life
Date: 2006.01.19 03:08

Description: A RARE INTERVIEW, and it went out over the radio. "Svali" (pen name) was a programmer in San Diego for the Illuminati. She was from a rich family completely in the Illuminati, raised in it from birth. She got out 10 years ago, at age 38, and they left her penniless and had the State take her childen back--for the Illumianti. However, now, she is now 48 years old, a nurse with her own life, regained custody of her children who are 'out' as well, and helps ritual abuse victims. Svali represents in many ways a success story in escaping occult sexual ritual abuse cults--in her mental solidity and her personality security. She has written a book that doctors attempting to treat ex-Illuminati or ritual abuse people have declared "invaluable" for its insights on how to help someone--since she was a regional programmer herself. Below is an interesting feel for her double life--and the double life her children are born into so they know nothing else--in the timeline she wrote up and gave the interviewer. NOTE THEY MEET ON A SECURE MILITARY BASE AFTER MIDNIGHT, just waved in like all the others in the darkness of early morning.

They put on uniforms that represent different hierarchies, speak German and English as lingua franca, chit chat, drink coffee, and then get to work on programming people or "tuning up" leaders already in power.

Some are rewarded in comfort sessions afterwards like her example of a military leader being given a "tune up" and then a comfort session with a young child to play with because he's a pedophile.

They build people's alters/split personalities from birth to suit the Order's cult atmosphere and desires for airtight secrecy (all are multiples), and keep heavy documentation on just what they do to each other to make them all the more controllable.

more Svali:

ILLUMINATI: Interview of Ex-Programmer/Trainer; History, Techniques, & Public Interfaces
author: interview

I. THE ILLUMINATI:
Exclusive Interview with an Ex-Illuminati Programmer/Trainer

II. THE ILLUMINATI:
Cult History, Programming Techniques, and the Public Interfaces
[a substitute for the FBI stopped second volume of Springmeier]

By Svali

Svali used to be a programmer and trainer in the cult of the Illuminati. Both she and her entire family were involved in the cult group until several years ago, when they finally broke free. She has been a consultant to an on-line survivors group that helps people dealing with issues related to cult programming and ritual abuse. Svali, a writer and a registered nurse, has self-published a book on breaking free of cult programming, which several experts in the field have said has "invaluable information" for the survivor of ritual abuse [which many still deny exists]. Her articles are published online at http://www.suite101.com. She is now married to her second husband and has two children.

The New World Order of an old world dream: being an exposé on a transgenerational, international, secret ritual-abuse & occult society with traceable bloodlines of thousand of years--a small nexus of [some] families that have been powerful for millennia, publicly and privately, riding the waves of history.

Svali: "Weishaupt did not create the Illuminati, they chose him as a figurehead and told him what to write about. The financiers, dating back to the bankers during the times of the Templar Knights who financed the early kings in Europe, created the Illuminati. Weishaupt was their "go fer", who did their bidding."

[If you can watch Conspiracy of Silence videos about high-level political and economic corporation owner pedophiles and agree it exists right in there with high level drug trades, and then you cluck-cluck at this "other information" from Svali--is more doublethink.

Conspiracy of Silence video WAS a video on the Illuminati.

It hit the taproot, right to the George Bush Senior White House (Bush of course in his "earlier" life was CIA head and U.N. representative of the United States). Conspiracy of Silence was banned from the Discovery Channel.

This link below is the best copy of it I have seen out so far.

The Republican GOP is the Good Ol Pedophiles party from top to bottom:

Watch this--from over 10 years ago:


Conspiracy of Silence - US Politicians Pedophile Ring
Banned from Discovery Channel

Conspiracy of Silence - 55 min - Mar 17, 2006

10/05/2006 07:49:00 PM  
Anonymous Oarwell said...

Monday, October 17, 2005
(source)Police 'had role in' Bali blasts

Ancora.

INDONESIAN police or military officers may have played a role in the 2002 Bali bombing, the country's former president, Abdurrahman Wahid has said.

In an interview with SBS's Dateline program to be aired tonight, on the third anniversary of the bombing that killed 202 people, Mr Wahid says he has grave concerns about links between Indonesian authorities and terrorist groups.

While he believed terrorists were involved in planting one of the Kuta night club bombs, the second, which destroyed Bali's Sari Club, had been organised by authorities.

Asked who he thought planted the second bomb, Mr Wahid said: "Maybe the police... or the armed forces."

"The orders to do this or that came from within our armed forces, not from the fundamentalist people," he says.

The program also claims a key figure behind the formation of terror group Jemaah Islamiah was an Indonesian spy.

Former terrorist Umar Abduh, who is now a researcher and writer, told Dateline Indonesian authorities had a hand in many terror groups.

No! Non ci credo! Veramente?!

"There is not a single Islamic group either in the movement or the political groups that is not controlled by (Indonesian) intelligence," he said."

What a surprise.

http://xiaodongpeople.blogspot.com/2005/10/police-had-role-in-bali-blasts.html

10/05/2006 08:02:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

An operation that crosses the boundary between material and non-material ("turning matter into spirit") is the making of homeopathic remedies. As the dilutions become higher, the substance becomes more rarefied. I'm not yet certain of this, but I'm leaning toward believing it, based on what I've read in homeopathic literature, Goethe's scientific writing, and Rudolf Steiner's work.

10/05/2006 08:04:00 PM  
Anonymous Oarwell said...

"quote from Springmeier's third edition (2002):

One of the bloodlines goes back to Babylon and are descendent from Nimrod."

I mean, c'mon. Nimrod? NIMROD?

Sheesh. Give us all a little break, okay? Paste a sample, and give us a link if we wanna follow it up. Or go earn your DARPA Coin elsewhere.

http://www.darpa.mil/body/darpa_coin/coin_index.htm

10/05/2006 08:16:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

One topic that I've never seen mentioned is Chinese expertise in indoctrination techniques, which became apparent to the West during the Korean War.

One classic work on indoctrination in general is William Sargant's Battle for the Mind.

10/05/2006 08:45:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I should add that conditioning happens all the time, often inadvertently, that it's not just "high-level evil Illuminati black ops".

Meaning that whatever level of conspiracy you believe in, even zero, it's well worth studying the techniques of indoctrination and conditioning. There are all sorts of cults, and cult thinking seeps into everyday life all the time. There isn't a hard and fast boundary. The stuff that often gets described here at RI is just the extreme, and a small percentage of the total.

Watch out for bias in what you take in and what you say and write and think.

10/05/2006 08:49:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

Watch out for bias in what you take in and what you say and write and think.
And isn't that just what the bad guys want us to do, to be careful, very careful about what we think and say? Mission accomplished, Sir! Since I don't know what's really going on and which tentacle of which octopus might be caressing my favorite writers' meme castles, I'd better just keep my mouth shut and be afraid, very afraid, right? Intercourse that, pal. I'll take Shrub's incautious ejaculations anytime. How the hell are we supposed to figure out what's happening in the world if not by examining the world from different viewpoints, different thoughtstreams?

Well, I suppose we could just accept any old nimrod's wild-eyed dystopian pornography and realize that there's nothing we can do because resistance is futile...Or, we could try to separate the wheat from the crap and not let the fear that's being broadcast over so many channels into our hearts. In the immortal and quickly forgotten words of Schwoissfuass, the Schwäbisch rock band for the ages, we say "Mir kauf'd nix, wir glauben schon an Gott und Ewigkeit" (I ain't buying nothin'--certainly not this kind of Soifa, Dreck & Butzlomba ; we already believe in God and eternity) or, even more immortally, "Oiner isch emmer dr Arsch" [mp3] (Somebody's always the ass.) Give a listen to the mp3 snippet if you've never heard Schwäbisch rock before. There's a few more snippets here. Emmr 'nein in hohle Grend...

10/05/2006 11:20:00 PM  
Anonymous Richard said...

“"BTW, does anyone have the slightest clue of what 'the spooky realm of anti-matter' is supposed to be? "

Isn't that the place where the Amish become government hitmen?

10/05/2006 11:45:00 PM  
Anonymous Dogananda said...

Things are going to slide
Slide in all directions
Won't be nothing
Nothing you can measure anymore
Leonard Cohen

10/06/2006 12:03:00 AM  
Anonymous Richard said...

Here's a good idea...model America on Thailand.

---------------------------------------------

"MADISON, Wis. - A state lawmaker, worried about a recent string of deadly school shootings, suggested arming teachers, principals and other school personnel as a safety measure and a deterrent.

It might not be politically correct, but it has worked effectively in other countries, Republican Rep. Frank Lasee said Wednesday.

"To make our schools safe for our students to learn, all options should be on the table," he said. "
Israel and Thailand have well-trained teachers carrying weapons and keeping their children safe from harm. It can work in Wisconsin."

In Thailand, where officials have been waging a bloody fight with Muslim separatists for the last two years, some teachers carry weapons for self defense as they are viewed as part of the government. In Israel, teachers are not allowed to carry weapons in the school, but security guards at the entrances are armed.

Lasee said he planned to introduce legislation that would allow school personnel to carry concealed weapons. He stressed that it would hinge on school staff members getting strict training on the use of the weapons, and he acknowledged he would have to work around a federal law that bans guns on school grounds."

_____________________________________

Doesn't Thailand have a vigorous child-sex industry?

Wasn't Thailand Limbaugh's Viagra Vacation hot spot?

Hmmmm.....doesn't sound like kids are real safe there.

Or is this the first step towards acclimating America to other, shadier aspects, of Thai culture?

I sense the hidden hand of Illuminist masters...not satisfied with secretly corrupting the Amish, they, like all sub-cultures, ache for acceptance as they dream of carrying their perverted fantasies into the light of day for all to see.

Give in to this gun measure & teen brothels will spring(meier) up overnight.

Give in to this gun measure & Wisconsin will find itself jumping to the top vacation spot for the Limbaughs, Foleys & Hasterts of this country.

Keep these 'elitist,' 'Satan-worshipping,' 'Illuminati' in the closet where they belong Wisconsin or Abu Ghraib-style 'butt pyramids' will be coming to a street corner near you.

You have been warned.

10/06/2006 12:18:00 AM  
Anonymous Richard said...

My God, Wisconsin, just the thought of a naked, sweaty Rush Limbaugh smearing Land o' Lakes butter on his Viagra induced stiffy as he chases your innocent children through the streets of Wisconsin is enough to reduce this grown man to a blob of blubbering jelly.

Will it do any less to you, Wisconsin?

"Fear is the sword we wield in uncertain times."

"All we have is fear."

Make me proud Wisconsin.

Just say no.

10/06/2006 12:37:00 AM  
Anonymous Q-Tip the Swabian (w)rapper said...

THEY MEET ON A SECURE MILITARY BASE AFTER MIDNIGHT, just waved in like all the others in the darkness of early morning.

Some are rewarded in comfort sessions afterwards like her example of a military leader being given a "tune up" and then a comfort session with a young child to play with because he's a pedophile.

They put on uniforms that represent different hierarchies, speak German and English as lingua franca, chit chat, drink coffee, and then get to work on programming people or "tuning up" leaders already in power.

Et tu, Cuttlefish??

10/06/2006 01:51:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"I mean, c'mon. Nimrod? NIMROD? Sheesh. Give us all a little break, okay? Paste a sample, and give us a link if we wanna follow it up."


Well, you've already been spoon fed above.

To the blissfully unaware, it's quite easy to trace well over a thousand years in most European royalty.

Thumb through the exhaustive Royalty for Commoners, by Stuart. I have a copy of the third ed., it's endless 'fun.'

Book Description
This is the new Fourth Edition of Royalty for Commoners, the first book ever to document the complete known genealogy of John of Gaunt, son of King Edward III and Queen Philippa. The importance of this documentation is that any commoner who can connect his or her own family lineage to that of John of Gaunt can now be shown to share the same basic royal heritage as the most noble knight--the complete heritage, not just the Plantagenet ["Planta genet' "new growth" bloodline" the Plantagents someone named Stuart (Stuart the name of the actual kings of Scotland), so someone is fananatically interested for over 30 writing/reading about tracing this and only this one line in incredible detail...and here we are 700 years later'] ascent.** This is the usual lineage through which a commoner can enter the domain of European royalty, though one might enter the lineage at any number of points.

This new Fourth Edition is a nearly completely reworking of previous editions and includes the following changes:

*Two dozen lines have been lengthened
*Sources now include dates of publication
*There are two indexes rather than one, an every-name index and an index of royal titles
*Research now ventures into the years before Christ
*The Bibliography has been significantly refined and expanded

**Plantagent/Angevin is the name applied to the residents of Anjou, a former province of the Kingdom of France, as well as to the residents of Angers. It is also applied to three distinct dynasties which originated as counts (from 1360, dukes) of the western French province of Anjou (of which angevin is the adjectival form), but later came to rule far greater areas including England, Ireland, Hungary, Poland, Naples and Sicily, and Jerusalem (This was the "Angevin Empire", a term applied retrospectively to the lands of Angevin Henry II of England, consisting of at their largest extent, the Kingdom of England and duchies or counties of Normandy, Anjou, Poitou, Maine, Gascony, Touraine, Béarn and Aquitaine; with Brittany, Wales, Toulouse, Scotland and Ireland held in some degree.)

The first of these Angevin dynasties ruled England in some form or another from the reign of Henry II, beginning in 1154, until the House of Tudor came to power when Richard III fell accidentally at the Battle of Bosworth Field in 1485.

In my studied opinion, when the Tudors come back in (backed by the French Valois with the secret marraige to Valoius, though the Tudors marry back into the Angegin/Plantagent line themselves, so even with the "Tudor makeover" its' still Angevin/Plantagets through the female line there. That led to Henry the 7th Tudor, and one of his daughhers married into the Stuart scottish kings northward--and that line goes on post 1603 when the Steuart House takes over both the throne of England and Scotland (thus the same female lineage from the Angevins/Plantagents (that's the John of Gaunt line) in the Stuart as well. Queen Anne, the last monarch of the House of Stuart, and of the separate kingdoms of Scotland and England, was to be the first monarch of a politically unified Kingdom of Great Britain, ruling until her death in 1714. The Stuarts were then followed by the House of Hanover. However, tracing that back the rationale for them doing this is that they were descenants of the Stuarts as well through the marriage of James I's daughter in the early 1600s to the "Winter King of Bohemia", and a failed religious/political revolution to cut into the middle of the Roman Catholic territory for what the backers saw would have been a forced English support of his son-in-law. James I remained cooly aloof, and his daugher and her husband fled. That line lives on, and is the rationale for choosing the Hanoverians, renamed the "Windsors" after WWI because the English were supposed to consider Germans enemies. However, the Germans were on their English throne. So you doublecheck--all these changes of dynasty are still via the female line, Angevin/Plantagenet.

Gore goes back to Charlemagne,

Bush is related to almost everyone on or off the throne in Europe.

U.S. presidential lines might as well be a mini-monarchy, and hugely interrelated to the people who signed off on the Magna Carta (1215-2006) protections (only "civil rights" for nobles until the 1630s-40s actually in England, despite the English mythology; judicially in opposition to the nobles, the king sponsors the peasants with rights on juries. (Intrafighting elites are the best thing for us...)).

The Goddard line particularly is very interesting line leading up through Mormon-crypto-masonic founder Joseph Smith who in his own words was out to "first take Missouri, then the United States, and then the world." He had to settle for desert Utah, though there's a huge intersting Mormon contingnet in American high politics now. And Springmeier writes as well as MKULTRA infiltration of (some) Mormons as well.

---

The solar priest kings of Emmanna (Severan dynasty) were emperors of the later Roman Empire. Bloodlines of the Roman Senate went into the Western Roman Catholic Church hierarchy.

---

Another related issue--

Perhaps around 300 years underground Sanhedrin at least and/or given the Desposynyi rolled into them as occult competitors (bloodline followers of James the Just). The latter approaching the Roman Empire, wanting to take over 'their' religion.

This is in both Roman sources as well as perhaps endlessly redacted and less trustworhy Christian "fathers" ones, who made it a point to lie out their teeth, keep in mind though to win 'souls', some even wrote down. However, I am unable to think how mentioning this would benefit winning souls to their side, so I consider it has more validity:

Historical accounts of the Desposyni

Hegesippus (c.110-c.180) wrote five books of Commentaries on the Acts of the Church. They are lost, but a few fragments are quoted by Eusebius in Historia Ecclesiae, 3.20. Among them is the following relation, ascribed to the reign of Domitian (81-96):

"There still survived of the kindred of the Lord the grandsons of Judas, who according to the flesh was called his brother. These were informed against, as belonging to the family of David, and Evocatus brought them before Domitian Caesar: for that emperor dreaded the advent of Christ, as Herod had done.

"So he asked them whether they were of the family of David; and they confessed they were. Next he asked them what property they had, or how much money they possessed. They both replied that they had only 9000 denaria between them, each of them owning half that sum; but even this they said they did not possess in cash, but as the estimated value of some land, consisting of thirty-nine plethra only, out of which they had to pay the dues, and that they supported themselves by their own labour. And then they began to hold out their hands, exhibiting, as proof of their manual labour, the roughness of their skin, and the corns raised on their hands by constant work.

"Being then asked concerning Christ and His kingdom, what was its nature, and when and where it was to appear, they returned answer that it was not of this world, nor of the earth, but belonging to the sphere of heaven and angels, and would make its appearance at the end of time, when He shall come in glory, and judge living and dead, and render to every one according to the course of his life.

"Thereupon Domitian passed no condemnation upon them, but treated them with contempt, as too mean for notice, and let them go free. At the same time he issued a command, and put a stop to the persecution against the Church.

"When they were released they became leaders of the churches, as was natural in the case of those who were at once martyrs and of the kindred of the Lord. And, after the establishment of peace to the Church, their lives were prolonged to the reign of Trajan."

In "The Ecclesiastical History", Eusebius records an account by Julianus Africanus recorded the following concerning the family:

"...For the relatives of our Lord according to the flesh, whether with the desire of boasting or simply wishing to state the fact, in either case truly, have handed down the following account...But as there had been kept in the archives up to that time the genealogies of the Hebrews as well as of those who traced their lineage back to proselytes, such as Achior the Ammonite and Ruth the Moabitess, and to those who were mingled with the Israelites and came out of Egypt with them, Herod, inasmuch as the lineage of the Israelites contributed nothing to his advantage, and since he was goaded with the consciousness of his own ignoble extraction, burned all the genealogical records, thinking that he might appear of noble origin if no one else were able, from the public registers, to trace back his lineage to the patriarchs or proselytes and to those mingled with them, who were called Georae."

"...A few of the careful, however, having obtained private records of their own, either by remembering the names or by getting them in some other way from the registers, pride themselves on preserving the memory of their noble extraction. Among these are those already mentioned, called Desposyni, on account of their connection with the family of the Saviour. Coming from Nazara and Cochaba, villages of Judea, into other parts of the world, they drew the aforesaid genealogy from memory and from the book of daily records as faithfully as possible. [Eusebius, History Section 1, Chapter 7]

The Desposyni and the Pope

The controversial Irish priest Malachi Martin, without giving a legitimate reference, noted in "The Decline and Fall of the Roman Church" that: "...A meeting between Sylvester (Pope Silvester I) and the Jewish Christian leaders took place in 318....

Make of that latter one what you will.

Other known relatives of Jesus include Simeon, the second bishop of Jerusalem, who was the son of Joseph's brother Clopas (mentioned by Eusebius, H.E. 3.11,32), and three ***Nestorian bishops of Seleucia on the Tigris in the 3rd century (according to the 13th-century Syrian historian, Gregory Barhebraeus). John the Baptist was also a relative of Jesus.

***
Nestorianism is the Christian doctrine that Jesus existed as two persons, the man Jesus and the divine Son of God, or Logos, rather than as a unified person. This doctrine is identified with Nestorius (c. 386–c. 451), Patriarch of Constantinople. This view of Christ was condemned at the Council of Ephesus in 431, and the conflict over this view led to the Nestorian schism, separating the Assyrian Church of the East from the Byzantine Church. The Assyrian Church of the East refused to drop support for Nestorius and denounce him as an heretic, and it has continued to be called "Nestorian" in the West, to distinguish it from other ancient Eastern churches. However, the Church of the East does not regard its doctrine as truly Nestorian, but rather teaches the view of Babai the Great. Babai the Great (c.551-628) is one of the pillars of the Assyrian Church of the East. He was the unofficial head of his church, revived the Assyrian monastic movement, and formulated its Christology in a systematic way. The New Age metaphysical system of Theosophy teaches a Nestorian doctrine regarding Jesus Christ.

...

If you can continue either underground, or more easily in the far periphery of a place that ceased to consider you a leadership, though you had your followers, you could easily do 300 years, and likely much more multgenerational hidden things pretty well, I would venture.

Combination of bloodline and oragnization are required: such things seem to still entice loyalty. And since the Sahhedrin was bloodline oriented of 70 different lines that rotated the high priest context, you have a whole little deep poltiial community of fundamentalists that have huge incentive to keep themselves together.

And recently it was (voila) announced that there is a movement in Israel to restart the Sahhedrin, i.e., to make Israel have a hereditary bloodline based Supreme Court of judaism as it were.

Tuesday, March 29, 2005

Is the Sanhedrin coming back?
Being a Jew and a descendent of Aharon, [not me, I'm quoting that from this person's review] I found this article in New Voices, a Jewish student magazine, of interest. I was just doing some rereading of what the Sanhedrin did back in the Rabbinic period earlier in the day. This was written by a student named Alicia Oltuski.

Temple Tantrum

Messianic predictions are as ubiquitous in the Holy Land as leaks in Boston’s Big Dig. But though they issued a standard declaration of messianic imminence, the assembly of 71 that gathered in Jerusalem last October were no apocalyptic amateurs.

No, according to the Jerusalem Post, this was a group of rabbinical throwbacks bubbling over with plans to create a modern-day Sanhedrin–a religious court a la ancient Israel–and to overthrow the Israeli government in favor of good old-fashioned monarchy.

This will be the first Sanhedrin in 1,600 years. To live up to such a tall order, the latter-day tribunal lobby, commonly known as the Monarchists, won’t be led by any Hymie or Mendel. Rather, the group has been hunting for the candidate with the best Davidic pedigree–the hereditary prerequisite for being Israel’s monarch, not to mention messiah.

After intensive bloodline investigations of families suspected of bearing close lineage to the rock-slinging ancient, the group has found a winner: Rabbi Yosef Dayan, hailing from the West Bank settlement of Pesagot.

Dayan is best known for public death threats against current Prime Minister Ariel Sharon.

And since he is the only candidate to hold grade-A proofs of Davidic ancestral descent, he’s highly popular among his followers (despite rumors of a vicious attack campaign from “Swift Tabernacle Toters for Truth”).

Their leader selected, the group is considering the thorny issue of how to topple a modern democratic state in favor of ancient-style theocracy.

Dayan sees two possible routes: the nation itself may shake off the yoke of democracy, resulting in a coup that brings Dayan to power. Or, just maybe, he told Post reporters, a cosmological transformation will take place, resulting in the institution of the monarchy. This latter, more enigmatic option–a scenario in which, Dayan explained, “no one will know how it will be until it happens”–was predicted by twelfth-century philosopher Maimonides, and Dayan maintains it is the more plausible of the possibilities.

Though most compare the Monarchists’ legitimacy to that of a French “Sanhedrin” convened by Napoleon in 1807 for the purpose of curtailing Jews’ rights, the judges themselves are keeping busy.

Among their recent initiatives is the erection of a Passover altar on the Temple Mount, hopefully to result in reinstitution of the pre-destruction sacrificial lamb ceremony.

The Sanhedrin helpfully offers followers two methods for accomplishing the sacred rite: either build and avail yourself of the altar very quickly–before Israeli security gets its hands on you–or await another Tsunami-like disaster that would render security ineffective.

With recommendations like this one, the Sanhedrin is sure to make a name for itself in no time flat.

http://kydem.blogspot.com/2005/03/is-sanhedrin-coming-back.html
http://www.newvoices.org/cgi-bin/articlepage.cgi?id=369

The Sanhedrin was reestablished in a ceremony in Tiberias, where the original Sanhedrin was disbanded, on October, 2004 (Tishrei 5765).

This page contains 3 Articles discussing the importance of the reestablish Sanhedrin



ARTICLE ONE

Hear ye, hear ye: Sanhedrin seeks David's scion as king*
Yaakov Katz, THE JERUSALEM POST Jan. 12, 2005

Will Jews begin proclaiming "Long live the king" in the near future?
According to a group of 71 Jewish scholars who met this week in the Old City of Jerusalem in the form of a modern-day Sanhedrin – a duplicate of the religious tribunal which convened during the time of the Second Temple – a coronation day is growing closer.

As one member of the group put it, "We would have liked it to happen yesterday. But we are willing to wait until tomorrow."

There hasn't been a genuine Sanhedrin in Israel for nearly 1,600 years; the last one to be proclaimed was in France, by Napoleon, for political gain. Shortly after the establishment of the State of Israel, religious affairs minister Judah Leib Maimon raised the notion of reinstituting the ancient body, to no avail.

The group composed largely of [jewish terrorist group] Kahane sympathizers that gave itself the name Sanhedrin in October, however, met Sunday to discuss the creation of a Jewish monarchy in the State of Israel.

For the past several years a group called the Monarchists has conducted extensive research into the lineage of several families in an effort to discover who has the closest bloodline to the biblical King David – a requirement for any future Jewish king.

Rabbi Yosef Dayan from Psagot, known for his recent threats to place a death curse on Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, is said to be a leading candidate to become the "king of Israel."

"Dayan has the best lineage to King David," several members of the Sanhedrin told The Jerusalem Post. They say he has two documented ancient sources which draw a direct line between him and the males in his family to King David some 3,000 years ago.

"Many people can show they are descendants of King David, but they cannot show that the line is only male," one Sanhedrin member explained.

"That makes Dayan the leading candidate to become king."

The Monarchists have consulted with non-Jewish experts on lineage. They concurred that, without a doubt, Dayan is a direct descendent of the House of David.

The only question now is how to establish the Jewish monarchy in spite of the presiding democratic government.

"There are two possibilities," Dayan explained. "The first is that the nation or a majority from within will want the monarchy and will uproot the presiding democratic government."

The second, more realistic option, he said, is "the one cited by Maimonides – and that is that no one will know how it will be until it happens."

Some of the other ideas discussed at the Sanhedrin meeting included the construction of an altar on the Temple Mount to be used for the Passover Offering during the upcoming holiday.

One of the ideas, members said, is to climb the Mount and build the altar within minutes and sacrifice the lamb before security forces can stop them. Another, said leading Sanhedrin member Baruch Ben-Yosef, is to pray for a tsunami-like disaster on the Mount.

"In one second, God wiped out 150,000 people," he said. "Who knows?

Maybe he'll help us if we show him we are ready."

Participants also discussed Ben-Yosef's idea of reinstating the Sanhedrin's authority to announce Rosh Hodesh, the beginning of the new lunar month.

"It is very important to reinstate the Sanhedrin's authority to announce the month, because it will force people to understand that God gave us the power to control the calendar and our own destiny," Ben-Yosef said.



ARTICLE TWO

New 'Sanhedrin' plans rebuilding of Temple*

Israeli rabbinical body calls for architectural blueprint


Posted: June 8, 2005
11:05 p.m. Eastern
News From Israel

The Israeli rabbinical council involved with re-establishing the Sanhedrin, is calling upon all groups involved in Temple Mount research to prepare detailed architectural plans for the reconstruction of the Jewish Holy Temple.

The Sanhedrin was a 71-man assembly of rabbis that convened adjacent to the Holy Temple before its destruction in 70 AD and outside Jerusalem until about 400 AD.

The move followed the election earlier this week of Rabbi Adin Steinsaltz as temporary president of a group aspiring to become Judaism's highest-ranking legal-religious tribunal.

However, although Steinsaltz's involvement with the endeavor adds important rabbinic legitimacy, other major halachic authorities, including Rabbi Yosef Shalom Elyashiv, the leading haredi Ashkenazi spiritual leader, and Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, the premier Sephardi halachic opinion, have refused repeated requests to offer their support.

Nevertheless, the group will establish a forum of architects and engineers to begin plans for rebuilding the Temple – a move fraught with religious and political volatility.

The group, which calls itself the Sanhedrin, is calling on the Jewish people to contribute toward the acquisition of materials for the purpose of rebuilding the Temple – including the gathering and preparation of prefabricated, disassembled portions to be stored and ready for rapid assembly, "in the manner of King David."

Rabbi Hillel Weiss, spokesman for the burgeoning Sanhedrin, said in an official statement that because of "concerns that external pressure would be brought to bear upon individuals not to take part in the establishment of a Sanhedrin, the names of most participants have been withheld up to this point."

"The increasingly anti-Jewish decisions handed down by the Supreme Court prove the need for an alternative legal system based on Jewish sources," said Weiss.

"More and more people, including Torah scholars, are beginning to understand this."

In addition to the election of Steinsaltz, the rabbis present also chose a seven-man committee, headed by him, to campaign for the acceptance of the idea of a Sanhedrin.

Those chosen include Rabbi Nachman Kahane, brother of murdered Jewish Defense League and Kach leader Rabbi Meir Kahane. Kahane is the rabbi of the Young Israel of Jerusalem's Old City and heads an organized study of Temple rituals and ceremonies, as well as cataloging all known kohanim
(priests) in Israel.

Others on the committee are Rabbi Dov Levanoni, an 83-year-old Chabad-Lubavitch rabbi and expert on the Holy Temple; Yisrael Ariel, founder of the Temple Institute in Jerusalem; and Rabbi Yoel Shwartz, founder and rabbi of the "Nahal Haredi" Israeli Defense Forces unit specifically designed to enable the haredi public to join the IDF, and teacher at Yeshivat Dvar Yerushalayim who has authored about 200 books on a wide variety of subjects in Jewish law and theology.
[the supporter of this] Steinsaltz is best known for his translation and commentary on the Talmud, but he has also served as resident scholar at Princeton and Yale Universities.

He heads a network of Israeli educational institutions called Mekor Chaim and outreach programs in the U.S., the former Soviet Union, Great Britain and Australia.


He is also a past recipient of the Israel Prize.

The Sanhedrin was reestablished last October in Tiberias, the place of its last meeting 1,600 years ago.

Since then, it has met in Jerusalem on a monthly basis.


ARTICLE THREE

Revived Sanhedrin discusses Temple*

Posted: February 17, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern

Hal Lindsey

Two remarkable developments took place recently that are extremely relevant to students of Bible prophecy [and to politicians appealing to those people as their constituents for manipulation.]

For the first time in 1,600 years, the Israeli Sanhedrin was re-established. It occurred in Tiberius, the site of the Sanhedrin's last meeting in AD 425.

On Jan. 20, IsraelNN.com reported:

A unique ceremony - probably only the second of its kind in the past 1,600 years - is taking place in Tiberius today: The launching of a Sanhedrin, the highest Jewish-legal tribunal in the land of Israel.

The Sanhedrin, a religious assembly that convened in one of the Holy Temple chambers in Jerusalem [before AD 70], comprised 71 sages and existed during the Tannaitic period, from several decades before the Common Era until roughly 425 C.E.

Details of today's ceremony are still sketchy, but the organizers'
announced their intention to convene 71 rabbis who have received special rabbinic ordination as specified by Maimonides.

These religious authorities believe it was necessary to re-establish the Sanhedrin because only this properly ordained body of sages can authenticate a Messiah when he comes. There is a growing expectation of the long-awaited Messiah to appear among devout Jews. The rebirth of the Jewish state and recapture of Jerusalem has increasingly influenced this conviction.

On Feb. 9, just a few weeks after the Sanhedrin's re-establishment, another enormously important development took place.

The religious sages began to consider the rebuilding of the Temple and reinstitution of ancient animal sacrifices as prescribed in the Law of Moses.

The first step toward facilitating this monumental endeavor was to seek to determine the exact location of the Temple's foundation. Sanhedrin spokesman Rabbi Chaim Richman told Arutz-7:

It is appropriate that the Sanhedrin convened to discuss this lofty matter of the Temple's location this week ... the Sanhedrin continues to move toward strengthening the nation of Israel.

As all these things happen all around us, the Sanhedrin is researching ways to renew the deepest roots of our faith - to renew Temple service, reunite Jewish legal tradition and inspire the Jewish people to aspire to greatness. Our people have one path before us, and we will continue to march toward our destiny.

Sanhedrin member Rabbi Yisrael Ariel is the most ardent believer that the Temple is to be rebuilt in this generation. He is the former Yeshiva head, founder of the Temple Institute, and one of the paratroopers who took part in the 1967 liberation of the Temple Mount.

He said:

People today ask, "Who are we in this generation to even consider building the Temple?" But in this week's Torah portion we see that the commandment to build a Temple was given to Jews who had just sinned and committed idolatry in the Sin of the Golden Calf. The fact is that what God requires in this world is for regular people to do their best. That is what we are trying to do.
The most difficult problem is to determine with certainty exactly where the previous Temple's foundations are. Muslims have not allowed Israeli archeologists to do archeological research on the Temple grounds. As a matter of fact, the Muslim custodians of this area, which they believe is their Third Holiest site, have systematically sought to destroy and remove any archeological evidence of Israel ever having a Temple there.

[No one has ever found it there. "Ancient Judea" is actually likely to the east of Egypt, across the Red Sea within current Saudi Arabia, according to some astoundingly thorough surveys of pretty politically and religiously taboo things. You can read about it if you want in the book Swords at Sunset. However that site failed to appeal to the Zionists who were looking to appeal to the Brits to establiish "Israel" where it was conveinent for the British to invade--to secure oil supplies in Mesopotamia during WWI. The Zionists were attempting to get anyone to aid them. They appealed oo the Ottoman Turks to establish it in their territories to the south, they laughed them off. Then the appealed to the German Emperor, and he had some talks with them in Jerusalem actually on one of his visits, there though he turned them down. Germans then of course with England were global imperial powers at war with one another. Then the Zionists went to the British, and the British supported them under that famous private letter to Lord Rothschild that Balfour sent that he would be glad to support a Zionist Israel as British policy.

Actually the first British invasion during WWI was into this area, instead of in Europe...

And there is documentation that instead of 33rd degree Mason President Truman being a puppet for the Zionists in recognizing Israel only minutes after it was established after WWII, Zionists were puppets for Truman's backers. Truman's staff hurriedly requested that the Zionists "send a letter of request back to us" concerning recognization of Israel so it would look official. Read Hancock/Bauval's _Talisman on that.

Anyway, back to that story. "Israel there" is about the oil and mineral riches there as well.]

The Sanhedrin determined that there are only two viable theories as to where the Temple stood. One teaches that the Temple stood on the same basic site on which the Muslim mosque known as the Dome of the Rock was built.

The second theory (which I am convinced is the most accurate) is that the Temple was built north of the Dome of the Rock. Dr. Asher Kaufman developed this theory, using certain archeological evidences that he found before the Muslim's destroyed them. However, the most important archeological sign is the position of the Eastern Gate. According to ancient accounts of the Temple, its east-west centerline passed through the center of the Eastern Gate.

We have absolute evidence as to where the ancient Eastern Gate stood. I have viewed personally the remains of the ancient Eastern Gate, which is located under the modern Gate that was built on top of its ruins.

While photographing the area in 1983 for my book, "A Prophetical Walk Through The Holy Land," I sought to verify Dr. Kaufman's theory. I established the east-west centerline from the Eastern Gate. Then I received one of the most supernatural visitations of my life.

My mind was suddenly flooded with a couple of verses that had been a mystery to me.

This is what I was shown. "I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, 'Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, and count the worshipers there. But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months.'" (Revelation 11:1-2 NIV)

So I measured off the distance from the centerline to the point where the wall of the inner court would stand. There was at least 6 meters clearance from the nearest points of the Dome of the Rock and the Temple inner-court wall.

The Apostle John clearly predicts that "the outer court was not to be included in the rebuilt Temple, because it was given to the Gentiles."

So what does all this mean? The Temple can be rebuilt and stand alongside the Dome of the Rock without disturbing it. And since the outer court, also known as the Court of the Gentiles, is given to the Gentiles in this period just before the Messiah comes, it infers that there would be a Gentile building there, i.e., the Dome of the Rock.
The fact that a re-established Sanhedrin is now considering the rebuilding of the Temple after 2,000 years is extremely important to [appeal to] students of Bible prophecy.

The Great Sanhedrin alone had the right to appoint, or confirm the appointment of, the high priest.

His consecration might take place only in the day-time.

Two high priests must not be appointed together.

Every high priest had a "mishneh" (a second) called the Segan, or "memunneh," to stand at his right; another assistant was the "catholicos"("Yad," l.c. 16-17). The right of succession was in the direct, or, the direct failing, the collateral, line, provided the conditions concerning physical fitness were fulfilled (ib. 20; Ket. 103b; Sifra, Ḳedoshim). For offenses which entailed flagellation the high priest could be sentenced by a court of three [like French revolutionary 'courts' actually]; after submitting to the penalty he could resume his office ("Yad," l.c. 22). The high priest was expected to be superior to all other priests in physique, in wisdom, in dignity, and in material wealth; if he was poor his brother priests contributed to make him rich (Yoma 18a; "Yad," l.c. v. 1).

Ponder on that. Particularly crucial is keeping certain bloodlines wealthy through collective other allied and subordinate family endeavors.

The Sanhedrin thought to have originated in the 3rd Century B.C. and lasted until the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70--and then it goes underground. It was composed of 70 [bloodlines] members, plus the Davidic line, mostly Priests and Sadducean nobles, some Pharisees, Scribes, and Elders, presided over by the [group bloodline elected] High Priest.

-------

Another group combining organization and bloodlines would be the Desposyni.--which would be yet another intercompetitive religious/occult group in wider European history.

This may be and likely is separate from other more more middle eastern priest king bloodlines, as well as separate from the Desposyni.

The Desposyni (from Greek δεσπόσυνος (desposunos) "of or belonging to the master or lord"[1]) was a sacred name reserved only for Jesus' blood relatives. The closely related word δεσπότης (despotes) meaning lord, master, or ship owner is commonly used of God, human slave-masters, and of Jesus in the reading Luke 13:25 found in Papyrus 75, in Jude 1:4, and possibly in 2nd Peter 2:1 (Strong's G1203). In Ebionite belief, the desposyni included his mother Mary, his father Joseph, and in the modern Protestant Christian perspective, his unnamed sisters and brothers James the Just, Joses, Simon and Jude; in modern Catholic Christian belief, Mary is counted as a blood relative, Joseph only as a foster father and the rest as step-siblings or cousins.

As some asserted their descent from both king David and high priest Aaron, all male desposyni could have laid claim to both the throne (King of the Jews) and the office of high priest of Jerusalem. However, the Roman occupation of Palestine (Iudaea Province), with the collaboration of the Judean establishment (Herodians), made any attempt by a desposynos to rise to or seize political and religious power impossible or limited in scope.

You have to understand that "Catholicism" is a 2000 year composite. The Bible itself was endlessly changing religious version of a comic book to fit the political facts of the Roman Catholic hierarchy. Bushby summarizes there are 14,000 diffrences built up from just the past 700 years in the ever changing "official text" of the Bible.

The Roman Catholic church, by taking over the external features of what was really a bloodline based Judaic state religion (itself internally opposed by another branch of more fundamentalist Maccabean lined terrorist groups thrown out of power a hundrred years before who followed those around another group), combined with lots of Egyptian 'Isis/Osiris-with-child' worship, and lots of agricultural dyying god cults of Mythraicism and dozens of other variants, including Roman Ceasarian divinity cult. All this gets morphed together.

If I was jewish, I could understand how annoying it would be for some non-jewish people (Gentiles) thoruhgout the Roman Empire to think that they were the actual followers of your religion and then they hunt you down as heretics. That's one angle of what happened. The blood issue is really promiment in the whole 2000 of gnostic vs. Roman Catholic Church issues in far western European areas, where some variants of early Christiantiy that were more culturally Jewish were still around in Ireland well into the 600s, and merging with pagan Celtic/Druidic stuff.

It's a complicated story.

Another book of interest is the sleuthing of Tony Bushby in _The Bible Fraud, which makes great sense of the bloodline dynamics mentioned above, actually.

For more secret bloodline continiuty issues and 'sociologically' how it is possibly done in a known case of an out (they are raised without the knowledge, and those who are considered trustworthy enough are given the knowledge, and told to pass down this knowledge in turn to one of their next generation and to keep a bloodline chart, read Rex Deus and follow up Crucifixion of Truth. Judge for yourself. There's lots of speculation in the first book though the second book fleshed a bit more historiography out.

--

If it's so easy to disprove, take up a letter writing campaign with Springmeier yourself, at his prison address...Check out the book: you'll love to hate the pictures of the Astors and Stalin, the Astors and Gorbachev; the Rockefellers and Stalin; the Rockefellers and the head of of the Communist Chinese, etc. etc.

"For more than a century, [our unowned!] ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have seized upon well-publicized incidents such as my encounter with Castro to attack the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and economic institutions. Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure - one world, if you will. If that is the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it." - A quote from David Rockefeller's Memoirs (2002) (p405).

"I think without internationalists like you, the international system we have been trying to build, the international system we have today, wouldn't be here." - UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan, at a book signing for "Memoirs" at the UN headquarters in New York, in 2002, quoted in Will Banyan: The Proud Internationalist.

The Rockefellers wrote the check for purchasing the U.N. grounds in NYC.

In Senate testimony in 1950, James Paul Warburg, of the power banking family that guided the U.S. Federal Reserve into existence contentiously stated: "We shall have World Government, whether or not we like it. The only question is whether World Government will be achieved by conquest or consent."

Federal Reserve organizer Warburg's brother was, during WWI, the German head of its intelligence that sent Lenin into the USSR on the "sealed train". So during WWII, the world had one family running the finances on one side of WWI (U.S.), fighting against his other brother in charge of 'enemy' German intelligence.

And take all those spoons out of your mouth, you might choke. Any more spoon fed and you'd throw up, so I'll let you eat at your own pace.


Eyes Wide Shut indeed, Cutttlefish.

10/06/2006 01:55:00 AM  
Anonymous jon said...

jeff--

you once moved long-winded pompous-assed posts like the one above to a spot on the RI board...why didja give up on the idea? a few times of doing that at the most and they'll hopefully learn to take their arcana elsewhere. oh, we all know they'll howl 'censorship' and adopt martyr complexes and whatnot, but shit: who wants to constantly have to wade thru the inane babbling of some hobo just to come across a bonafide posting related to the topic? posts should go the length of the screen at most, imo: after that, cut the bastards off. they'll go back to playing their online AXIS&ALLIES games, i swear...

10/06/2006 02:31:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Personally, 'jon' I think you contributed nothing, so what you wrote could be even shorter--so contribute something substantive.

10/06/2006 02:36:00 AM  
Blogger jules said...

>>If our world includes programmed assassins, and has for at least 40 years, what programming can we say with confidence is both out-of-reach and ethically out-of-bounds for the programmers? If, say, the People's Temple of Naval Intelligence asset Jim Jones was a social experiment in mind control, then to what end? More pointedly, was it deemed a success? Should we expect a rollout of the supersized beta version? <<

I dunno if you remember the Chivalric Order of the Solar Temple, Jeff, or that it was 12 years ago almost to the day that they had their jonestown moment.

I think it was founded in a schism by a guy named origas, claimed to be a former SS officer.

They had land in Quebec apparantly.

Mind control is an interesting concept, but I don't think it is limited to MK Ultra type stuff.

The news is MC, as is advertising, really any socialisation is a form of mind control.

All the so called classic techniques of self development are exercises in mind control, only they aim to develop mind control as something individual minds do to themselves.

Its a bit strange the way things happen in clusters, whatever they are. Be it a scientific discovery or dog attacks things seem to manifest in groups, as if one thing occurring brings the idea to the group consciousness, and often makes an impression on it. The group then focuses on the event and it continues to manifest for a while till it becomes commonplace loses its power to attract attention then fades away.

We are talking about a military occult complex, so why wouldn't it take advantage of this pattern. Clustering.

I know its slightly off your original topic jeff, but is programming individuals neceesary to achieve the recent school shootings, or is simply necessary to program society sit back and wait?

I haven't heard the details of the first two shootings, but the Amish shooting has heaps of weirdness associated with it.

10/06/2006 04:17:00 AM  
Blogger Sounder said...

Jules said;

"The news is MC, as is advertising,"--

Everything that places being ahead of consciousness is MC.

"really any socialization is a form of mind control."

This is only because our socialization process requires an acceptance of dualism, and hence a deferral to authority.


Anonymous 8:04 said...

"An operation that crosses the boundary between material and non-material ("turning matter into spirit") is the making of homeopathic remedies."

Diluting a material does not make it at some point non-material. It may make it subtle and immeasurable, yet it will still be 'material'.

10/06/2006 08:01:00 AM  
Anonymous Oarwell said...

Wow. Parapolitical spam.

To the spammer: there are plenty of websites where we can gorge on this stuff till our eyes bleed, if we want. It's more helpful here just to post a short, provocative bit, and a link.

To Jeff: I would agree that the data dump might be a good place for the Springmeier stuff.

How about this for a rule of thumb: no posts longer than Jeff's original posting?

Call it "Nimrod's Rule."

10/06/2006 08:37:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sniff, Sniff do I smell cheese?

Evidently the rats did. They always show up and feast.

10/06/2006 09:21:00 AM  
Anonymous marmot said...

to the anonymous poster

if you're going to deluge us with so much info--the length of which may be more than Jeff and all the rest have posted put together--why don't you identify yourself with a name?

even though it was something i read before, nevertheless, i did appreciate your first Springmeier posting. however, now you're just getting carried away.

you may want to get your own blog and i would be happy to visit you there.

10/06/2006 09:23:00 AM  
Anonymous Shrubageddon said...

Give in to this gun measure & Wisconsin will find itself jumping to the top vacation spot for the Limbaughs, Foleys & Hasterts of this country.

Oh God, Richard....that's really Cheesy!!

10/06/2006 10:40:00 AM  
Anonymous Jeff Gannon's Masticated Rectum said...

Spam Bad! Sausage Good!

Oh, Dag Nabbit, I've gone and starched my britches again.

10/06/2006 10:53:00 AM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

Well, this is turning into some fun!Q-Tip the Swabian (w)rapper joined in the fray, repeating the uniform Illuminati uniform fetish:

THEY MEET ON A SECURE MILITARY BASE AFTER MIDNIGHT, just waved in like all the others in the darkness of early morning. Some are rewarded in comfort sessions afterwards like her example of a military leader being given a "tune up" and then a comfort session with a young child to play with because he's a pedophile.

They put on uniforms that represent different hierarchies, speak German and English as lingua franca, chit chat, drink coffee, and then get to work on programming people or "tuning up" leaders already in power.


And then the pseudo-Swabian turns it back to me, defender of Amishness and skeptic of Illuminist propaganda, with this stunning indictment:

Et tu, Cuttlefish??

So, I'm an Illuminati pedophilic MK-ULTRA mind programmer, and all because I speak German and have suspicions regarding the truth and the purpose of all this Illuminati crap? (Or is it because I drink coffee...?) At least we get to see the rational process at work which reveals the secret truths to those who've had their eyes opened wide and their spoons removed. Is that the same logic that prevails in Monty Python and the Holy Grail?

("Why do witches float?"
"Because they are made of wood!"
"How do we prove she is made of wood?"
"Build a bridge out of her.")

Of course, the Pythons are not to be trusted either, and truth-seekers everywhere should be relieved to find Solid Proof that the evil they peddled goes straight back to the monstrous Beatles:

George Harrison financed Monty Python’s vile and blasphemous Life of Brian, which even Newsweek magazine described as “irreverent.” Time magazine called it an “intense assault on religion” {Time, Sept. 17, 1979, p. 101}. (Thanks to the diligence of the fine folks at Way of Life, a fundamentalist website devoted to taking spoons away from the unsuspecting. The link goes to their investigation of the horrors inflicted on us by those damned--you bet they are--Beatles: everything from long hair to marijuana and disrespect for the divinely-ordained Republicans!! I highly recommend this site for those seeking revelations & lunacy, or was it lunatic revelations...?)

And then there's this from Anonymous (not sure which, but one can safely assume it's the same unnamed source of all revelation who started all this with Fritz's insane anti-Amish nonsense):

To the blissfully unaware, it's quite easy to trace well over a thousand years in most European royalty. Well, it's not easy for me to trace, so that just leaves...Anony then goes after my spoons again:

And take all those spoons out of your mouth, you might choke. Any more spoon fed and you'd throw up, so I'll let you eat at your own pace.
Eyes Wide Shut indeed, Cutttlefish.


Okay, so I'm suffering from blindness because the spoons in my eyes prevent me from being illuminated by the holy (if undocumented, hysterical, and ridiculous) "revelations" that some guru fed these people. I think I can live with such a handicap. Have any of you guys who've been illuminated by these revelations ever stopped to think that things are not as they always seem? Or that it might benefit the very people you aspire to thwart to have a bunch of easily duped nitwits running around yelling, "I've found it! The truth was given to me and now I know all their secret plans!" Doesn't it even make you wonder why these thousand-year secrets were revealed to you? Trusting lot, aren't you? At least you don't have those annoying spoons to worry about anymore--I can hardly swallow sometimes, not to mention all that coffee and those German vowels stuck in my throat.

If starroute were here, she might share Granny Weatherwax’s warning in Wyrd Sisters:
Things that try to look like things often do look more like things than things.”

10/06/2006 12:52:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5414396.stm

It was further alleged that an assault rifle and a shovel were left by the body, apparently to make it look like the man had been planting a roadside bomb and had been killed in a gun battle

dont know if anyone has seen this but it sure is evidence of dirty trix in iraq

10/06/2006 01:12:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Take it east now IR FISH.

Maybe you need an orgasm.
Has it been long?
The pressure is building and bleeding into you commentary.
Taking it personally and all you silly programmer you....

Taking the bait hook, line and sinker.

Yeeehaaaaahhhh!!!!!!


Hang on for good ole Nantucket Sleigh ride

Fritz and his take on things was entered for its contrast.

Take it with a grain of salt,PLEASE.


I do like when my post cause such a HUB BUB though.

Posting cause i love it,

Beezalbub

10/06/2006 02:49:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I love uniforms.........

10/06/2006 03:04:00 PM  
Anonymous Evo Morales said...

How to deconstruct your latest post? Let me count the ways:

1. You wrote, Q: "Have any of you guys who've been illuminated by these revelations ever stopped to think that things are not as they always seem?"

Ai: Have YOU?

Aii: We is not the "illuminated". To be sure. Is you among them?

2. Nice Straw-man (and I don't mean Jack, the hijab-hater) with the anti-Beatles post.

Aiii: You ain't the Beatles.

As if.

Aiv: You ain't Monty Python neither.

As if, part deux.

Get off your hobby horse, or get off on it. Take another demerol and chill with your buddies from the NSA or S&B or S&M, whatever your preversion happens to be.

In any case, you're going to have to answer to the Coca Cola Company of America.

10/06/2006 03:07:00 PM  
Anonymous Evo Morales' proofreader said...

To Irritating Coddledfish:

How to deconstruct your latest post? Let me count the ways:

1. You wrote, Q: "Have any of you guys who've been illuminated by these revelations ever stopped to think that things are not as they always seem?"

Ai: Have YOU?

Aii: We is not the "illuminated". To be sure. Is you among them?

2. Nice Straw-man (and I don't mean Jack, the hijab-hater) with the anti-Beatles post.

Aiii: You ain't the Beatles.

As if.

Aiv: You ain't Monty Python neither.

As if, part deux.

Get off your hobby horse, or get off on it. Take another demerol and chill with your buddies from the NSA or S&B or S&M, whatever your preversion happens to be.

In any case, you're going to have to answer to the Coca Cola Company of America.

10/06/2006 03:09:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Do you want o know me?

Who I am?

"Darkness is light turned inside out"

Beezalbub

10/06/2006 03:11:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To know me is to love me.

10/06/2006 03:12:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Coke and the CIA.
I hate Cheney.
He had my assets exposed.

Valarie Plume

10/06/2006 03:14:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ha Ha Ha

Oarwell is for CENSORSHIP.


Well with a name like that why am i not surprised.

Fuck you you fucking FUCK

Your whining is hilarious.


Here is his take on controlling me.

I would agree that the data dump might be a good place for the Springmeier stuff.

How about this for a rule of thumb: no posts longer than Jeff's original posting?

Call it "Nimrod's Rule."

I think you should bang your head against the wall for relief.

Happy Hunting Nimrod for you see that i am a non-conformische man.



Beezalbub

10/06/2006 03:26:00 PM  
Anonymous Shrubageddon said...

Isn't Cheney a descendent of Lugalkiginedudu?

10/06/2006 03:29:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

More scary bedtime stories for Oarwell and his friends from the unrepentant Beezalbub

Say YOU LOVE SATAN

Ricky Kasso was from Northport Long Island. In 1984 the police of Northport recieved a phone call about a body in a shallow grave in a small woods called Aztakea Woods. There in the woods the police found the body of Gary Lauwers, over two weeks decomposed. The man had been stabbed thirty two times, twenty-two in the face. The total may have been higher, but the decompisation made it impossible to tell. The police focused their investigation on Ricky Kasso and James Troiano. Both were high school dropouts, and known drug abusers who lived on the streets. Troiano had a record of burglary arrests, but Kasso had more unusual charges.

His most recent arrest was a charge of grave robbing, where he dug up a 19th century grave from which he stole a skull and hand that he intended to use for a satanic rite. Soon after they were taken into custody, they both confessed to the murder. They were linked to a local satanic group known as the Knights of the Black Circle, which had around twenty members and was known for animal sacrifices. As part of a satanic rite, Kasso goughed out Lauwers eyes.

Kasso may have been able to help more with the investigation, but on July 7th, he hung himself in his jail cell. When Troiano went on trial for second degree murder at the beginning of the next year the case had been revised. The Knights of the Black Circle had nothing to do with this murder. There had been only one witness to the murder besides Troiano, Albert Quinones. Satanism wasn't muchly involved in the murder, even though they knew Kasso was into a heavy metal style of satanism, but drugs were the main factor in the murder.

The act that triggered the murder was Lauwers stealing ten bags of Angel Dust from Kasso. Kasso spent two months complaining about the rip-off, then on June 16th he decided to teach Lauwers a lesson. Lauwers was in the woods with Kasso, Quinones, and Troiano tripping on Mescaline. Kasso started harrassing him about it, then started beating him, soon he was out of control and got out his pocked knife. Kasso stabbed him over and over again screaming "Say you love Satan!!!".

Lauwers responce was "No, I love my mother!". He accidently cut out the eyes while he stabbed him over and over again. He eventually left the body in the woods covered with leaves. In Kasso's confession, he said he heard the screech of a crow, which, in his mind, was Satan saying that the murder was a good thing. At the trial of Troiano, he maintained that he was only a witness, and didn't participate in the murder. The jury found him not guilty.

BOO!!

10/06/2006 03:39:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

FACTOID from guess who?

To the blissfully unaware Cheney is a decendant of the royal line of Sumer.

Not Mesopotamia as many blisfully aware believe.

Furthermore we demand Shrubbery!!!

Knights of NI

10/06/2006 03:47:00 PM  
Anonymous Oarwell said...

How is it censorship to suggest you shorten your posts?

Think for a moment, if you're able. Let's pretend I'm convinced that the answer to all our questions is found in The Brothers Karamazov. That's a book, by the way. So, to "educate" everyone, I post the entire book in the comments.

Now, it's a good book, few would deny it (although I suppose Dostoevsky also fits somehow into your delusional schematic). But how is it useful to ANYONE to post a book which is available elsewhere, and to which I can simply link? Even if it is the Key to all Riddles?

It's not useful.

What are you, 14 years old? You post all that crap and expect anyone to take the other stuff seriously? Calling yourself lord of the flies, like that impresses anyone?

What a joke.

The real question is, not whether ideas should be censored (they shouldn't), but rather, should stupid people be kept from dominating conversation in the public square?

The answer to that is yes, and for good reason.

Stupid people have nothing to say.

That's why they're considered stupid.

Hey, I think your mom's calling you in for supper.

10/06/2006 03:49:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Angel Dust

Wonder where they sell it in Harlem now?

Shrub help us out dude.
Where do you score?

10/06/2006 03:50:00 PM  
Anonymous Shrubageddon said...

Shrub help us out dude.
Where do you score?


Well...let's see....we know it's not the White House, because you obviouslsy have that covered.

Right, Bulldog?

10/06/2006 04:04:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

After a lifetime of skepticism on this matter, I now have a certain amount of belief in a likelihood that methods of mind control are implicated in these shootings.

During this same week, half of my office came down with an unidentified illness. No one could say precisely what was wrong with them, other than a feeling of disorientation.

Meanwhile, I had been writing an enormous amount, linking together various aspects of recent American history and also considering, in great detail, the evangelical apocalyptic Christian viewpoint of those who run our country.

At a certain point I had a bizarre mental experience that might be termed "supernatural" or "divine." The alpha-omega of Deity as Creator AND Destroyer. (I have been a lifelong religious skeptic and thorough liberal secularist.)

I had to reason myself through this state. I believe I felt, at one point and then another, the way the apocalyptic Christian feels, as well as how the suicidal Muslim feels.

It was very terrifying. And it was during this exact same period that the three school shootings occurred. So yes, I think there may well be something in the water, something in the air, that they're trying out. I wouldn't put it past them at this point.

And I am definitely not of the tinpot-hat variety. I've got a degree from one of the world's top universities.

10/06/2006 04:05:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

After a lifetime of skepticism on this matter, I now have a certain amount of belief in a likelihood that methods of mind control are implicated in these shootings.

During this same week, half of my office came down with an unidentified illness. No one could say precisely what was wrong with them, other than a feeling of disorientation.

Meanwhile, I had been writing an enormous amount, linking together various aspects of recent American history and also considering, in great detail, the evangelical apocalyptic Christian viewpoint of those who run our country.

At a certain point I had a bizarre mental experience that might be termed "supernatural" or "divine." The alpha-omega of Deity as Creator AND Destroyer. (I have been a lifelong religious skeptic and thorough liberal secularist.)


i've been having a similar experience recently - a lot of people around me are ill with one form of sickness or another (i've only got the sniffles thankfully) and i've been feeling very honed in a radio-tuner sort of way.

a friend of mine sent me a cell-phone trinket from korea, the kind that blink when you're receiving a call, sensing the EM radiation. instead of putting it on my phone, i hung it under my rearview mirror in the car – mostly out of curiosity when it would go off as i was driving. i do drive past a lot of cell phone towers along a major highway on my way to work, and for the first week it would turn on and off as I went past them. but the thing began to blink constantly - never turning itself off, just about two weeks ago - literally blinking all the time in areas where it had been quite before and killing the battery in a matter of days. of course, this is not a scientific test, but it is some weird data of something in the air for sure.

10/06/2006 04:18:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This article is sadly prophetic:

"In fact, it's almost a certainty it will be during school hours when it happens"

And...
"It was incredibly reminiscent of a scene from "Little House on The Prairie." They were smiling and laughing - a rapidly vanishing emotion in America today. There was no mind control or government agenda there. The Amish people are not the proverbial frog-in-the-pot as mainstream Americans are. No, they are outside the pot watching it come to a boil while striving daily to remain independent. "

10/06/2006 04:26:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Diluting a material does not make it at some point non-material. It may make it subtle and immeasurable, yet it will still be 'material'."


That presumes that there is a hard boundary between what we usually think of as "spirit" and what we think of as "matter". I think they are part of a continuum, and that matter comes from spirit, some kind of "condensation" operation.

Think about it - it fits in with non-dualism.


As for my remark about "watching for bias" - it wasn't meant as "watch what you say because 'they' will get you" - it was meant more as a kind of self-observation/meditation to be more aware as one goes through the day processing and passing on information, opinion, etc.

I think that avoiding irritability and paranoia, and keeping our senses of humor, will make "them" more edgy and paranoid and more likely to slip up.

One can be vigilant and self-observational without being compulsive, etc. We can start to "catch ourselves in the act" of swalling opinions unthinkingly and passing them on, etc.

One mo' t'ing - what IS all this stuff about bloodlines? (I seriously am curious and would like to know the basis for considering this to be so important beyond the fact that rich people tend to pass their wealth on to their offspring.) Whoever is plastering reams of cut-and-paste from some who-knows-what source takes it for granted that "we" all understand the significance of bloodlines.

The only thing I know about "bloodlines" is that too much inbreeding of dogs makes for crappy dogs.

10/06/2006 04:53:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Something strange going on in America

Oarwell I will change my name to
Shrubadonna or Little Fairy if it will appease your incessant whining.

Pleasing to the ear is it not?


I will not post information keeping it as short as possible just for those with short attention spans.


Some people see it for what it is INFORMATION.
Whether it will pass the tests we give it to make it valid is irrelevent.Fritz is not where the buck stops.
Neither is he all a pack of lies.
As others have similiar stories with no interest in him at all.

Showing all facets of the fragmented puzzle we are left with.

If we disregard evidence or dismiss it without analysis is not helpful to the big picture.

There is something strange going on in America.
I am waiting till the other shoe drops.

"If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away." Henry David Thoreau

10/06/2006 06:19:00 PM  
Anonymous kitsune said...

I will not post information keeping it as short as possible just for those with short attention spans.

i think the point others are making is that LINKS would be better than massive posts. it's just common message board courtesy. this space is at its best when it is a conversation - not a one-sided listening fest where we all nod our heads as you speak for hours (or scroll thru your posts).

i am familiar with Fritz - because once you posted it here, i googled him to read more on my own before you posted the second round of stuff.

by insisting that those who ask for less info-dump (which i would count myself with) are silencing you - i just don't think you understand how an enlightening comment section works. curious minds will google, will click on links, etc.

10/06/2006 06:31:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Honestly I admit the first post which I did condense as much as I could.

That someone else did post more and did no snipping is not my fault.

So scroll down and ignore or go and do you own research.
(highly recommended)

No one has a right to tell others how to think.

Here is a melting pot of info which has helped me learn and discover new things I never knew of.

Oarwell did say send all the stuff to the data dump.Did he not.

My equating the data dump with censorship is not quite correct.

Pretty close though.

10/06/2006 07:51:00 PM  
Anonymous SamHill said...

Nothing scientific, indeed, but I've been in a foul mood with a headcold as well. Everybody at work is a crabby grump (more than usual). Maybe there is something else going on? Who knows. I joke with my co-workers that I'm the first out the emergency door when I hear gunshots, but there is a kernel of truth in that.

But step back and think about it: wouldn't be an ideal time for a little black ops? A little mayhem in the average American's life? You know that the color-coded warning thing isn't working any more. We are forced to dump our precious liquids into giant vats at the airport. Even the most naive person becomes immune to the threat: it's called habituation. So the evil overlords deem it necessary to kill and rape a few school girls. Could there be a bigger fear in the minds of the "Security Moms" that BushCo relies upon? What better voter turnout effort? Much more effective than calling thousands of people...

Anon, there is a good place for you to post your *giant* data-dump. Jeff has set up a discussion board where you can post to your heart's content. Click this link and look for "Data Dump." Easy!

http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition

In that way, you can get your 'voice' heard (or somebody else's writing read, in any event) and the rest of us can get back to connecting the (pertinent) dots.

Although, I have to admit that I've been laughing my ass off at some of the satirical postings. Oh, snarky deliciousness!

Keep it coming.

10/06/2006 08:07:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Diluting a material does not make it at some point non-material. It may make it subtle and immeasurable, yet it will still be 'material'."

Actually, surprisingly that was found out to be false--scientists found data supporting homeopathy simply by what happens to incredibly small concentrations: instead of the brain dead assumption that it just "has to" keep diluting it more and more, what actually happens at micro-concentrations is that the lesser the solution the more it starts to force and clump the remaining molecules of whatever together instead! Even when there was nothing in the water!

1.

Belfast homeopathy results

MADELEINE Ennis, a pharmacologist at Queen's University, Belfast, was the scourge of homeopathy. She railed against its claims that a chemical remedy could be diluted to the point where a sample was unlikely to contain a single molecule of anything but water, and yet still have a healing effect. Until, that is, she set out to prove once and for all that homeopathy was bunkum.

In her most recent paper, Ennis describes how her team looked at the effects of ultra-dilute solutions of histamine on human white blood cells involved in inflammation. These "basophils" release histamine when the cells are under attack. Once released, the histamine stops them releasing any more. The study, replicated in four different labs, found that homeopathic solutions - so dilute that they probably didn't contain a single histamine molecule - worked just like histamine. Ennis might not be happy with the homeopaths' claims, but she admits that an effect cannot be ruled out.

So how could it happen? Homeopaths prepare their remedies by dissolving things like charcoal, deadly nightshade or spider venom in ethanol, and then diluting this "mother tincture" in water again and again. No matter what the level of dilution, homeopaths claim, the original remedy leaves some kind of imprint on the water molecules.

Thus, however dilute the solution becomes, it is still imbued with the properties of the remedy.

You can understand why Ennis remains sceptical. And it remains true that no homeopathic remedy has ever been shown to work in a large randomised placebo-controlled clinical trial. [Have any been done though...?] But the Belfast study (Inflammation Research, vol 53, p 181) suggests that something is going on. "We are," Ennis says in her paper, "unable to explain our findings and are reporting them to encourage others to investigate this phenomenon." If the results turn out to be real, she says, the implications are profound: we may have to rewrite physics and chemistry.

2.

Probabaly has something to do with water being ionic, as well as the hydrophlia or water-rejection of a particular chemical as well though it just goes to show if you think in this sort of abstract extrapolated way, without bothering to look at the evidence, you learn nothing. Once they finally tested what happened within water under these micro-concentrations, instad of just reaching for an abstract theory, a mechanism in water was verified for homeopathy so to speak and their theories had to be changed for what actually occurs in micro-solutions.

All this goes back to Hahnemann, though further back than that:

While researching classical Greek medicine, a German physician, Samuel Hahnemann (1755-1843), rediscovered the theory of homeopathy in the 2400 year-old teachings of Hippocrates.

Hahnemann and his medical students at Leipzig University ingested small doses of substances from the animal, mineral, and vegetable kingdoms and carefully recorded the results of their experiments. Not content with introducing empirical pharmacology into medicine, Hahnemann formulated a grand theory to explain his findings: A substance that causes symptoms in a healthy person can cure a patient suffering from those same symptoms. The more often the substance is shaken and diluted, the more powerful the remedy becomes.

3.

Historically, homeopathy has been more effective than "mainstream" allopathic medicine in treating and preventing disease. In a U.S. cholera outbreak in 1849, allopathic medicine saw a 48-60% death rate, while homeopathic hospitals had a documented death rate of only 3%.[40] [Though still without exactly a double blind randomized trial] Roughly similar statistics still hold true for cholera today.[41] Recent epidemiological studies show homeopathic remedies as equaling or surpassing standard vaccinations in preventing disease. There are reports in which populations that were treated homeopathically after exposure had a 100% success rate--none of the treated caught the disease.[42] [Because of course, somehow, still mechanistically understood, the water carries the 'hole' or signature of what was there, while the vaccination program carries this information by the original dangerous viruses.]
http://www.unc.edu/%7Eaphillip/www/vaccine/dvm1.htm%20


4.

Dolivaxil has been used in Europe for years during the flu season to prevent flu symptoms. It stops the flu before it starts. Every year, the World Health Organization predicts which flu viruses are most likely to infect and cause flu symptoms. Based on this information, the homeopathic solution is reformulated year to year to help prepare the body during the flu season. Preliminary research shows that the flu shot is 68% effective on all people compared to a 90% effective rate on Dolivaxil. It has no side effects, can be purchased over-the-counter, and is for the whole family. As a preventive medicine in the flu season, it is taken weekly for 4 weeks and then once three weeks later. Like all homeopathic medicines, it is pleasant tasting.
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/10/298858.shtml

Of course if you simply go along with a broken medical model due to peer pressure, you aren't being scientific now are you?

10/06/2006 08:33:00 PM  
Anonymous Shrubageddon said...

starroute said...
shrub -

I can't get the audio of that Weyrich et al statement to play (I think some of my Firefox plugins are plugged in backwards...or whatever), but I was amused by this from the transcript:


Hey Starroute:

Sorry I didn't respond sooner. Your post came directly on the heels of the Gargantuan Spam Post and I scrolled by it, inadvertently.

Weyrich said, and I kid you not, "it had been known for quite some time that Mark Foley was a Homosexual...and we know that Homosexuals are preoccupied with sex....so, considering this, he should never have been granted the responsibility to serve as the Official Chair on a Committee dedicated to the cause of missing and neglected children."

Wow!!

The Interviewer called him on the Homosexuals are preoccupied with sex comment, and he adamantly stuck to his guns saying that Psychiatrists and Psychologists who work closely with them have asserted as much.

I think we see where this is going....and it's exactly how I thought they would spin the whole thing.

Hitler eventually had to ceremonially cleanze the Homosexuals from his ranks....the key phrase there being Ceremonially...meaning superficially.

10/06/2006 08:35:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Character assassination?

According to one Oklahoma source who knows the former page very well, Edmund, a conservative Republican, said he goaded an unwitting Foley to type embarrassing comments that were then shared with a small group of young Hill politicos. The prank went awry when the saved IM sessions got into the hands of political operatives favorable to Democrats.

10/06/2006 08:47:00 PM  
Anonymous Shrubageddon said...

For those of you who have not had the chance, check out the Manson Documentary Jeff posted on the Videos Only Thread on the Forum.

The whole Manson thing has always fascinated me......as was "their" intention, I'm sure.

As a young boy, it scared the living bejesus out of me. As an adult, it has intrigued me.

Talk about Mind Control. Those saps were puddy in his hands....and the unnerving thing is, those saps are the majority of Americans today....puddy in "their" hands.

10/06/2006 08:51:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Shrubadonna said:

Bloodlines

The Necronomicon, or "Book From the Dead" consists of messages from the ancient gods of Lemuria and Atlantis, who foretell that, when the stars are rightly positioned in the heavens, will be the opportune time for performing blood rituals to effect the resurrection of these 'sleeping' gods and their human offspring:

"'There had been eons when other things ruled on the Earth, and they had had great cities. Remains of them, he said the deathless Chinaman had told him, were still to be found as Cyclopean stones on islands in the Pacific. They all died vast epochs of time before man came, but there were arts which could revive them when the stars had come round again to the right positions in the cycle of eternity. They had indeed come themselves from the stars, and brought their images with them.'

"Lovecraft, like Enoch, and like ancient man himself, conceived of the ancient Atlantean gods or Nephilim as possessing supernatural power, and, like Enoch, says that this power comes from the stars, that these beings in fact had come from the stars themselves, and seemed to be metaphysically affected by the movement of the stars, being able to resurrect from the dead only when the stars were in a certain position.

"Likewise, the Atlantean god-kings purposely associated themselves with the stars and the planets, taking on the personifications of planets and constellations, each of which had a particular 'energy' or 'plain of existence' associated with it. This energy could be further manipulated by the prayers and rituals of the cult members who are loyal to the Great Old Ones, and wish to see their kingdom rise again, in much the same way that Masons, Rosicrucians and other occultists today perform rituals in hope of bringing about the 'Great Work' called the 'New World Order', a new Golden Age just like the one that covered the Antediluvian world when the Atlantean god-kings (whom they revere) ruled over the Earth directly. The Eye in the Pyramid on our dollar bill, which represents the New World Order, is clearly a symbol of this newly-risen kingdom of Atlantis, 'watched over' (as in 'the Watchers') by the All-Seeing Eye, which could just as easily be the eye of Dagon, or Leviathan, or Cthulhu. It even looks reptilian, like it belongs on the face of a dragon.
"The rise of R'lyeh, the New World Order, the New Atlantis, the New Jerusalem, the Golden Age, and even the Apocalypse - these are all terms for the same resurrection of the ancient global kingdom of the gods. Such a resurrection is also described in Aleister Crowley's The Book of the Law when he writes about the coming 'Age of Horus' and the return of the rule of the gods, as well as their offspring, the human 'kings'."

10/06/2006 08:53:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Now pay attention.

The ritual in Eyes Wide Shut is such a ritual.

10/06/2006 08:57:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

EYES WIDE SHUT
Nowadays the word orgy connotes something depraved and degenerate. That was not the original meaning for the word. The word "orgy" comes from the Greek word "orgia" meaning "secret worship". Since most secret worship involved sexual rituals, and Christians were opposed to anything sexual the word orgy came to have the debased meaning it has today, rather than the noble, spiritual meaning of the original word.
Many words that are used to describe extreme religious fervor are also used to describe great sex, such as passion, bliss, and ecstasy. There were many orgies throughout the year as celebrations in the religion of the Goddess. Many of these celebrations have been taken over by the Christians who removed their sexual nature. The best known is undoubtedly Christmas taken from the pagan festival of Saturnalia.
Saturn, from whom we get the word for the day of the week, Saturday, was the Roman name for the Greek God, Cronus and the Babylonian God, Ninip. Sometimes called the Lord of Death, he was represented by the sun at its lowest aspect at the winter solstice. That's when the earth is cold, and most plants are dead, and it was believed that the sun was approaching death. Today that's around December 21, but because of calendar changes, it was originally December 25th. Saturnalia celebrated the sun overcoming the power of winter, with hope of spring when life would be renewed. In Roman times, Bacchus, the god of wine, became the lord of these festivals. During the Bacchanalian festivals the everyday rules were turned topsy turvy. The masters waited on the servants. All sexual prohibitions were lifted. It was a time of true good will towards all men. Even dresses were exchanged with men dressing as women. Erotic dances were performed with a large erect phallus being carried around in the dancing processionals.
The custom of exchanging clothes during Saturnalia and Bacchanalia was an activity frowned upon by the Jews and Christians as it is prohibited by the Bible, Deuteronomy 22;5 "The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment; for all that do so are abomination unto the Lord thy god" So much for Biblical transvestites.
However, the god Hermes in order to become a god of magic went into the temple of his consort Aphrodite where he wore a woman's robes and artificial breasts. In the temple he learned all the secrets of the Goddess Aphrodite which were exclusively taught to her female priestesses. The priests of the very masculine Greek hunk, Hercules, always wore female dress, probably in memory of Hercules service in female dress to the Queen Omphale. Zeus had sent Hercules to be a slave to the Queen for having killed a young man, Eurytus, after his father had insulted Hercules.
One of the most famous prophets and seers of ancient time, Teiresias, was a man who was changed into a woman and served in the temples as a priestess for seven years to gain the feminine powers of insight and divination. During this time as a woman he gave birth to a daughter before being turned back into a man. It was Teiresias who gave us the "scale of one to ten." Myth has it that Zeus and Hera once argued who had the most pleasure in sex. Zeus said it was the woman, while Hera asserted it was the man. They agreed that Teiresias should judge who was right. He did not hesitate to tell the God and Goddess, "Measured on the scale of pleasure, in the act of sex man has one measure to woman's nine." Hera became incensed by this, stating that judges, like referees in sporting events are all blind, and made Teiresias blind.
Anciently men's transvestism had its roots in the desire to attain female magic and powers and was common among the Pagan priests up to the time of St. Augustine who denounced the custom, saying that men who wore women's garments could never attain salvation, even if they were otherwise good Christians. So the good Catholics simply made the women's gowns into Priests robes. They looked the same, had the same function, but a "robe by any other name, does not a transvestite make."
Another favorite converted Pagan holiday is Valentines Day taken from the Lupricalia. The festivals of Lupricalia were noted for their wild, sensual dances in which sausages played a very important part. So important in fact that both dancing and sausages were outlawed by the Christian Emperors of the 4th and 5th century.
And, of course, May Day used to have great sexual frolics around that giant phallic symbol, the May pole. The May pole represented the Gods phallus in Mother Earth. People decorated it and danced around it. Kids still do today, even though they have no idea of its original meaning. The Christian church opposed May festivals because of its association with pagan gods. A 16th century English Puritan writer Philip Stubes, railed against May pole dancing. He said,
"What clipping, what culling, what kissing and bussing, what smooching and slobbering one of another, what filthy groping and unclean handling is not practiced in the dances." Stubes estimated, though how he got his statistics is unknown, probably from peeping through bushes, that not one girl in three retained her virginity after taking part in May pole rituals. After dancing around the Maypole celebrants would retire to the open fields where they would have sex with anyone and everyone in the plowed fields in order to insure the fertility of the land and prosperous yield of crops. May was a month of sexual freedom throughout rural Europe up to the 16th century. Marriage bonds were suspended for the month of May, commenced again in June - hence, June weddings.
All of these ancient rituals, these orgia, involved group sex and nudity. The hang ups and inhibitions that most people have about having sex in groups or in front of other people are largely the result of Biblical attitudes. Sex, was something to be done only in private behind locked doors, and only for procreation. Those restrictive ideas come to us from the Bible, in which nudity is condemned as soon as Adam and Eve ate the apple (or technically, the Fruit of Knowledge of Good and Evil).
Also in Genesis we read the story of Noah getting drunk and lying around naked in his tent. His son Ham, the father of Canaan, came in and saw him and went out and told his two brothers about it. They came in and, walking backwards, covered him. When Noah woke up he knew what Ham had done and he said,
"Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren" So the father curses his son and his descendants--who are according to some biblical interpretations, especially those of Whitehead and many Mormon, and some nineteenth century christian writers, the blacks--to be servants to his white brothers just because Ham saw him naked. A little extreme, I'd say. And it doesn't matter that some interpret this differently, as one of the justifications for American slavery of blacks was this interpretation of the Bible.
Nudity is frowned on by the Judaeo-Christian god, but Greek Gods are usually depicted as nude in magnificently detailed statues. The god of the Bible is always portrayed with plenty of flowing robes on. What does he have to be ashamed of? Did they cut too much off when he was circumcised?
In pagan religion rituals, men and women had sex with their friends and neighbors. The Bible forbids such activities in no uncertain terms, Leviticus 20:10,
"And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife even he that committeth adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death." Even today some states still cling to archaic Judaeo- Christian religious laws making adultery a crime.
In ancient times a priestess could be married or unmarried. She performed sexual purification rituals with all worthy men regardless of her marital status. In some cultures all women were required to serve in the temple. Herodotus, the father of history, writing about the Babylonians states,
"Babylonian custom compels every woman of the land once in her life to sit in the temple of love and have intercourse with some stranger. The men pass and make their choice. It matters not what be the sum of money; the woman will never refuse, for that were a sin, the money being by this act made sacred. After their intercourse she has made herself holy in the sight of the Goddess and goes away to her home." That is unless she decided to continue as a full time priestess. The man was not paying for sex, but rather making an offering to the Goddess for allowing him to participate in the sacred ritual.
One hundred and fifty years later, Quintus Curtius, the historian who accompanied Alexander the Great on his conquests, reported:
"There is none other more corrupt than this people, or none other more learned in the art of pleasure and voluptuaries. Fathers and mothers suffered their daughters to prostitute themselves to their guests for silver and husbands were not less indulgent with respect to their wives. The Babylonians plunged into drunkenness and all the disorders which follow it. The women appeared at the banquets with modesty at first, but they ended by abandoning their robes, then the rest of their garments one after another, disrobing themselves little by little of modesty until they were entirely naked. And these were not public women who abandoned themselves so; they were the most respectable matrons and their daughters."
In some cultures, as in Egypt, the upper class women were priestesses. Almost all of the Egyptian queens were High Priestesses of the Goddess, up until Cleopatra. She was the 369th in a line of which I am 537th High Priestess. Egyptologists who know how sexual the high priestesses were, just cannot believe that a queen would have sex with anyone other than her husband-- like the good Jewish Queens of the Bible. They seem to think that Cleopatra, who had sex with 100 Roman noblemen in one night was unusual. The fact is, all priestesses, queens or otherwise had sex with thousands of men.
In ancient cultures with matriarch religions, sex was considered something ennobling and uplifting. Sex could take you closer to the Gods rather than alienate you from god.
An example of this come from one of the oldest stories in existence, the Gilgamesh Epic. Some place the Epic by tradition around 5,000 years before the current era. The story tells of many heroic adventures of Gilgamesh who is part human and part god. One particular story tells that the gods placed a wild man, Enkidu, in the wilderness area and required Gilgamesh to capture and tame him. Gilgamesh is told of this wild man by a shepherd who has seen him. Rather than run out with spears, arrows and nets, Gilgamesh sends a priestess of the Goddess to the watering place of the wild man. She takes off her clothes, exposing her charms. The wild man, finding her much more appealing than his animal friends, has sex with her for 6 days and 7 nights and is won from his wild life. He is calmly led by the priestess back to the city, to civilization.
This story dramatizes the ennobling, civilizing benefits of sex. Sex is portrayed as a force for good. Contrast that with the Biblical version of the first sex activities. Adam and Eve were living in Paradise without sex. They disobeyed their god's order not to eat fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. It is only after they eat of the fruit of knowledge that they become aware of their genitals and sex. As a result they are caste out of paradise, out of the presence of their god, into a cold, cruel, uncultivated world--where sex is evil.
In the Goddess religion sex brings one to civilization and the goddess, in the Judaeo-Christian religion sex drives one into the wilderness away from their god.
In Judaism, the sins of the individual are put on some animal which is ritualistically killed by the a priest, or sent as a scapegoat into the wilderness. In Christianity, the sins are put on the dead god Jesus, whom they believe died for all men's sins, past, present and future. (So since your sins are already all taken care of, why not enjoy yourself?) In the religion of the Goddess, the priestess takes upon herself the sins and transgressions of the man in the ritual of negation. In the Egyptian language the word, Negation, pronounced negation but obviously spelled differently in hieroglyphics, meant Semen or the essence of man. The word modernly means to cancel or wipe out, to make negative. You may wonder how it got from one language to the next with such a drastic change in meaning. That is because in the ritual of negation, a man ejaculates, or leaves his negation, his semen inside the twat of the priestess, as a symbol that he is willing to give up his all in order to have his sins wiped out. The term negation came to be applied to the whole ritual or wiping out ceremony. Gradually through the centuries, the semen, and religious connection got lost and only the wiping out part remained. The priestess literally takes upon herself the transgressions of the man, she intercedes on man's behalf with the Goddess, so that he can be purified. She is his guide in this life to bring him to the hereafter.
There have been some Christian sects through the centuries that have selectively interpreted passages of the Bible to allow them to indulge in sexual activity typically forbidden by their god. The Aegopy had open, free love when christianity first began. Other "heretical" sects in early Christianity, such as the Brothers and Sisters of the Free Spirit, were killed off by good christians about 600 years ago. A heresy is anything which the Catholic Church does not agree with. America has had several religious groups which practiced open sex. The Oneida Company of New York, which makes beautiful silver work was originally run by one such religious group. John Humphrey Noyes preached what became known as his "perfectionist" doctrine which required its members to lover one another--and make love to one another.
Another sect which was established about the same time was the Brotherhood of the New Life. It was started by Tom Harris who taught that people had a duty to love each other, not just spiritual brotherly love, but also physical love with many partners.
Most people know the Mormons practiced polygamy in the 1800's. But the Mormons also had secret sexual practices in which women were shared among the inner circle of male leaders in the early days of the church. John Law, one of the ruling three men of the Mormon Church, second only to Joseph Smith, had his printing press destroyed by angry church leaders when he threatened to publish accounts of the men who had had sex with his wife. This is emphatically denied today by Mormon leaders, but Mormons leaders also denied that they were practicing polygamy until polygamy became the "New and Everlasting Covenant of Celestial Marriage". Sex with several women became the "order" as long as you were married to them; and there appears to have be no limit put on the number of wives. The Mormons correctly pointed out that this practice was common among patriarchs of the Bible--Abraham, Israel, King David and Solomon, to name a few. Unfortunately Mormon women were never given the same freedom of having sex with other men as were the priestess wives of David and Solomon, and other patriarch.
This right of the priestess, to have sex with any man she desired, appears to have been originally taught by the founder of Mormonism, Joseph Smith, but was rejected by his wife, Emma, who also rejected polygamy. Why bother to twist and select passages from the Bible to allow sex in religion when there already exists the religion of the Goddess with its emphasis on spiritual sex?
Each of these modern religions gave up their attempt at spiritual sexuality, due to pressure from Judaeo-Christian religions. Sex is no longer just a religious issue, it is a political issue. From the mayors and councilmen of cities, legislators and governor, to the President, the politics of sex demands an outward profession of the Judaeo-Christian ethics. A politician is required to parade his wife, children, church attendance and sexual fidelity before the public as a sign of his character. In this land of the free where there is supposedly freedom of religion, we are slaves to Judaeo/Christian traditions which promote a male patriarchal order as "family values".
The sexuality of the Goddess has been feared by men from their beginning and Her sexuality is feared today. Christian fundamentalists are in dread of a sex-positive religion which will have a greater appeal then their sex-negative, ascetic doctrines. Christians fear the haunting shadows of their forgotten ancestors--those ancients who worshipped the pagan goddess and the Goddess in Her temples and groves--who still bring up images of hidden memories of her priestesses in their subconscious who speak a truth which Christians openly deny. Christians fear the obvious, that after 2000 years their dead god has not returned and the twilight of christianity has arrived--that long awaited time when the "Lady of the New Dawn" would arrive.

10/06/2006 09:10:00 PM  
Anonymous Eponymous poet said...

From the my doggerel devoured your caterwauling department:

O Cuttlefish, cuttlefish.
Wherefore art thou cuttlefish?
Why not a squid or a bream,
A barnacled trireme?
How 'bout a shark 'neath an ark,
Or an anemone, o enemy?
A mollusk thou couldst be,
Sucking beneath the sea,
A clam or an oyster
in a coral cloister.
Perhaps a little sand dab....
I've got it: a crab!

Whoso wrote: "And I am definitely not of the tinpot-hat variety. I've got a degree from one of the world's top universities."

Well, er uh, so do Geo. W. Bush and Ted Kaczinski. And so did Ted Bundy. Geez, you're in great company, eh?

10/06/2006 09:10:00 PM  
Anonymous Guyus Ceramicus said...

exfoliate:
1.v, the act of expectoration by a congressional page.

10/06/2006 09:51:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

how they parry and pirouette; each a pretender to rapier-like wit.
But, alas, all was lost when they spoke.

balticboy

10/06/2006 10:13:00 PM  
Blogger jules said...

Shrub, I remember reading in one of RAW's books about one of the tricks Chalie Manson used in his creation of the Family.

He used to give the girls acid, get them all comfy inside and stuff then go down on them for hours on end.

It was the invokation of a peak experience of immense magnitude, and ... well think about it.

This might sound slightly cynical, but its not. taking the time to give a chick an awesome sexual experience can have huge benefits.

They love it, especially cos most guys don't seem to be that selfless. It makes it very easy to take advantage of that girl.

I am sure the same thing applies to blokes. And to me probably.

Now one of the similarities to mansons trick is a sexual magic technique called Karrezza or something. It basically means exhausting the body and mind through sex. The idea being that a clear mind in that state is very useful and powerful.

Visualisation techniques like Sigils and stuff seem to work especially well with that technique, as the exhaustion and pleasure seem to create an egoless state.

Wilson was talking about brainwashing I think, and the relationship between imprinting and conditioning and behaviour, and the use of imprinting in brainwashing.

He talked about using peak experience as a technique for clearing previous imprints, something that he felt was a vital part of brainwashing for nefarious purposes.

I find it hard to imagine MC in a context other than the model RAW exposed me to. That manipulation of Peak Experience, Imprinting and conditioning.

Of course trauma induced disassociative states would work well with this process, effective creating new clean unimprinted alters are made available every time a split is induced.

The whole sirhan/robert kennedy thing seems to be a perfect fit for that model too.

But I get the feeling that whats going on with some of these random acts of violence may be different.

I mean direct controlled brainwashing (and hence MC) is not exactly weird or out there, the Stockholm Syndrome is probably (definitely) another side of that cube.

But what about action at a distance.

Any aussies that were in melbourne or Victoria during any of Jeff kennets election victories might remember this.

There is a melbourne tabloid called the Heald sun, back before kennet got elected for the first time, late 92, it was massively pro Kennet, anti Kerner or whoever was premier. (Not massively Pro Liberal - anti ALP just the personalities, tho it was anti ALP by definition. (ALP is left leaning socialist type politics in Australia, Liberal Party politics is a little to the right of the GOP and Thatcher, especially at the moment).

At that election, or the next when kennet was incumbent, someone wrote a letter to the paper accusing it of some pretty serious bias and manipulation.

It claimed that the star signs published by the paper would subliminally implant ideas that prompted people to vote for Kennet.

The paper laughed this off, none the less the trend was there.

I think I checked star signs from late 92, they were predominantly "time for a change" new is good, try something different in their subtext.

Next election I had left Victoria, but checked up on the star signs anyway. They were the complete opposite.

New is bad was the meme that emanated from the daily horoscope.

Some people might claim that is proof of astrology and that it works...

That nut who wrote into the paper convinced me, well he didn't but checking for myself did.

Of course I am just being paranoid, aren't I?

There's no such thing as mind control, and no such thing as manipulation of the public.

10/06/2006 10:15:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

Hey this really is fun! Hi, Anonymous! I promise to "Take it east now," but only if you tell me what it means. I'm really not that clever. I got the adolescent virility-is-power thing (Shakespeare must have been such a focking stud, what eh?) and I will try to keep track of my orgasms for you (do you have a text messaging doo-hickey for this purpose, or?)

On to the rest of your odd diatribe: When you say I've fallen for your trap ("Taking the bait hook, line and sinker"), it seems you've revealed a bit more of your game than anything else. What does it mean that you put "bait" out there? And "Fritz and his take on things was entered for its contrast"? Contrast with people who aren't writing things they don't mean in order to draw unsuspecting idiots out of their shells? Isn't that just a little too much like disinfo?

Furthermore, what did you trick me into revealing? That I speak German with Amish twin-sellers while drinking coffee and programming anagrams and palindromes? Diabolically clever, dude. As for your admonition to take steaming piles of spam-paste "with a grain of salt," you don't have to say "PLEASE." Who in the world would bother to even read 40 paragraphs of some 'ultimate truth' that was lifted from somewhere else, much less take it seriously? I do like the concept of "HUB BUB, though." So...what's all the hubbub about? What is your point, all deceptions aside?


On to Evo Morales:
In your attempt to "deconstruct (my) latest post," you've got me "count(ing) the ways," alright. This is particularly pointed: "Aii: We is not the 'illuminated'. To be sure. Is you among them?" How can you be so sure, if you really believe in those invincible, invisible mind-controlling powers you ascribe to your bads guys? (Uncle Frank used to say, "You are what you is," and no, I'm relatively certain I'm not Frank Zappa.) As to my "Straw-man," I was so puzzled as to who "Jack, the hijab-hater" might be that I forgot about the fundamentalist "anti-Beatles post," but I do want to thank you for reminding me that I "ain't the Beatles" or "Monty Python neither."

It's one of the sad consequences of endless programming of tiny minds for me and my "buddies from the NSA;" you program enough morons to think they know the secrets of the universe and pretty soon you forget you're not John Lennon saying, "Number nine, number nine" ad infinitum on some scratchy vinyl somewhere. Lastly, Evo, I'm pretty sure I know what or S&M means, but what is "S&B"? Obviously, it's a "preversion," but that one's not in the manual. Any chance you'd care to enlighten an orgasm-challenged old Schwäbischschwätzer? (And what am I supposed to do with all the Coke bottles?)

10/06/2006 11:49:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thanks for the hierodule summary. There's a quick term for you.

The priestesses of Inanna and Ishtar were known to be hierodules. Among some neopagans, a hierodule may be a priestess who has sexual intercourse in the role of whichever Goddess she serves [i.e., possession ceremony really] in the ritual of hieros gamos.

Hieros Gamos (Greek ιερός γάμος, "holy wedding") or Hierogamy (Greek ιερογαμία, again "holy wedding") means a coupling (sometimes marriage) of a god and a man or a woman, often having a symbolic meaning and generally conducted in the spring. It is an ancient ritual in which participants believed that they could gain profound religious experience through sexual intercourse. Participants assumed characteristics of deities, often channeling the deities in question, and by their union provided symbolic and literal fertility for themselves, the land, and their people. This was often done by the monarch and hierodule of the dominant religion.

And if "some" bloodlines still carry on like this in private...., the children of these unions would be raised elsewhere:

The Sanhedrin were male hierodules:

I believe, from reading some juicy stuff in Knight & Lomas's The Book of Hiram, I think, the Jewish priestly families of the Sanhedrin lines praticed ritualzed young teen female child sex/impregnation, then their child was born and raised back in their families, though it was to come back as "Sanhedrin property" to be taught the ropes later upon adolescence.

Early state elites as ruled by forms of intergenerational ritual occult abuse?

Amish sex

That the Amish may have tucked in there somewhere another layer among some groups is hardly strange given how strange and occult leaning were the German Christian contingent into Pennsylvania in the 1600s and early 1700s. They literally are frozen in time in a place before any democratic revolutions or religious-civil rights protections anywhere in the world. They would be pretty private.

There's the huge language differential. Most speak a German dialect known as Pennsylvania Dutch (or Pennsylvania German), which the Amish call Deitsch. Although now limited primarily to the Amish, Pennsylvania German was originally spoken by many German-American immigrants in Pennsylvania, especially by those who came prior to 1800.

The so-called Swiss Amish speak an Alemannic German dialect that they call "Swiss". Alemannic German is spoken by approximately only ten million people now in isolated places in six different countries in Europe--including southern Germany, deep in the mountains of central Switzerland directly aginst the Italian/Swiss Alps, Austria, Liechtenstein, France and Italy. The name derives from the ancient Roman Empire German alliance of tribes known as the Alamanni.

In fact, although more Amish emigrated to the United States in the 19th century than during the 18th century, most durable Amish today descend primarily from the earlier 18th century immigrants...

No Old Order movement ever developed in Europe and all Old Order communities are in the Americas.

In 2000, Raber's Almanac estimated there were 198,000 Old Order Amish in the United States.[1] There are Old Order communities in 21 states; Ohio has the largest population (55,000), followed by Pennsylvania (47,000) and Indiana (37,000). Significant populations are also seen in Delaware, Michigan, Iowa and Wisconsin.

Some Beachy Amish have relocated to Central America, including a sizable community near San Ignacio, Belize.

Most Old Order and conservative Amish groups do not proselytise, and conversion to the Amish faith is rare.

The Beachy Amish, however, do pursue missionary work.


"Those English out there..."

Electricity...is viewed as a connection to the "World", the "English", or "Yankees" (the outside world).

The Amish as an ethnic group

The Amish are united by a common Swiss-German ancestry, language, and culture, and marry within the Amish community. Therefore the Amish meet the criteria of an ethnic group.

However, the Amish themselves generally use the term only to refer to accepted members of their church community, and not as an ethnic designation. Those who do not choose to live an Amish lifestyle and join the church are no longer considered Amish.

Amish sex

The Amish are afflicted by numerous heritable genetic disorders, including dwarfism (Ellis-van Creveld syndrome), and are also distinguished by the highest incidence of twinning in a known human population, various metabolic disorders and unusual distribution of blood-types.

Since almost all of the current Amish descend primarily from the same few hundred founders in the 18th century, genetic disorders among the Amish are from founder effects exacerbated by a degree of inbreeding. However, between different communities, different family names and different disorders are prevalent.

The Amish do not represent a single closed community, but rather a collection of different demes or genetically closed communities even closed off from each other.
Genetic diseases which are common in one community will often be absent in another. For example, the founding families of the Lancaster County Amish are unrelated to the founders of the Perth County Amish community in Canada.

Some of these disorders are quite rare, or even unique, and serious enough that they increase the mortality rate among Amish children. The majority of the Amish accept these as "Gottes Wille" (God's will) and reject any use of genetic tests prior to the marriage to prevent the appearance of these disorders and refuse genetic tests to the fetus to discover [anything, including] if a child has any genetic disorder.

Did someone here, a female, I think, comment recently on their own personal private family strange Pennsylvania/German/Dutch family's going's on?

P.S. - That "Cuttle poem" sounded like it was ripped out of Alice in Wonderland. My brain still thinks it was. I felt like I was having tea with the doormouse and the Red Queen. I was impressed.

10/07/2006 12:47:00 AM  
Blogger jules said...

See if long posts get banned, then gems like the anon above who posted about the pagan history of sex would never be seen.

Some long pots might be annoying to some people but sometimes there is good stuff in there.

10/07/2006 01:01:00 AM  
Anonymous jon said...

not banned, jules: moved to the RI board where they can go on and on ad nauseum...*ahem*...i mean to their hearts' content about the secret links between jfk's limo driver and zoroaster, or bugs bunny and the nephilim. jeff did it before, why not now? besides, they could give everyone a page-long intro to their multi-volumed tome on the love-making of amenhotep III and *then* get linked to the board so that anyone who wanted to find out how the 18th dynasty pharaohs fucked their sisters can go on to find out while the rest of us stick to, say, the topic at hand or its related spinoffs. why is that wrong, in your opinion?

10/07/2006 01:23:00 AM  
Anonymous starroute said...

IC -

I think S&B was supposed to mean Skull & Bones. At least, that would make as much sense as any of the rest of it.

However, all this mind control stuff keeps reminding me of something that I have the feeling may be important:

When I was a little kid, I was terrified of dogs. Even after I got into my teems, I was still highly nervous around them. But when John Kennedy was shot and I went for a long walk to try to work off some of the mental turmoil, a dog came out of someone's yard and walked with me for a while -- and I discovered to my surprise that I was too full of other emotions to be afraid. I was even grateful for the companionship of the one living creature I'd seen that wasn't freaking out.

I've never been scared of dogs in the same way since.

So I'm prepared to say that I was re-programmed by the Kennedy assassination -- but in a way that was 100% benign and had nothing to do with the intentions of its perpetrators.

Shock and awe may be irresistable when it comes to knocking the mind loose from existing patterns -- but what happens next will determine where it comes down again, and that is far more under our control.

10/07/2006 02:10:00 AM  
Anonymous Evo's elocutionist said...

IC, eye see you isn't so bright as you try to make out wid awe dem Swabian allusions.

Straw man Jack bees Jack Straw. Don't keep up on de news much, eh wut?

An eye gyess you didn't ever see Dr. Strangelove, wid da coke machine an Peter Sellers and Keenan Wynn fightin over a nickel fo' de phone, wid KW tawkin' bout dem British preversions and da good Cap'n haffin' to 'splain heseff 2 de CCC of Amurica.

Shee-ite, it's no fun ifn you bees 2 dum 2 git de jokesesess.

Go bekk down in de ocean, crabbie.

10/07/2006 03:23:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

quote:

"Hieros Gamos (Greek ιερός γάμος, "holy wedding") or Hierogamy (Greek ιερογαμία, again "holy wedding") means a coupling (sometimes marriage) of a god and a man or a woman, often having a symbolic meaning and generally conducted in the spring. It is an ancient ritual in which participants believed that they could gain profound religious experience through sexual intercourse. Participants assumed characteristics of deities, often channeling the deities in question, and by their union provided symbolic and literal fertility for themselves, the land, and their people. This was often done by the monarch and hierodule of the dominant religion."

Well, then! The Japanese emperor position is a 21st century hirodule.

He still has ritualized sex with Amaterasu (Sun Goddess, stand in for his wife) the night he becomes emperor in Japan...

10/07/2006 06:11:00 AM  
Blogger Sounder said...

starroute said;

"So I'm prepared to say that I was re-programmed by the Kennedy assassination -- but in a way that was 100% benign and had nothing to do with the intentions of its perpetrators."

I had similar results with my experience of having a 1917-penny for milk money on the day of JFK’s murder. Later I came to think that there are cosmic guides that bring balance, perhaps through imbalance, to the plans and ploys of those that think of themselves as controllers.

I don’t know anymore, the same group is still in power, the coup has been consolidated and no one even talks about it.

10/07/2006 11:41:00 AM  
Blogger Sounder said...

anon 4:53 said,

"That presumes that there is a hard boundary between what we usually think of as "spirit" and what we think of as "matter".”

...that presumes....from I guess,

“Diluting a material does not make it at some point non-material. It may make it subtle and immeasurable, yet it will still be 'material'.”

My intension was to assert a continuum, that material and ‘spiritual’ is the same thing. My problem with homeopathy is only that orthodox chemistry and physics have no potential to penetrate its subtle causal origins because current thinking assumes that atoms and molecules mediate causal activity rather than smaller sub-particles.

then you said,

"I think they are part of a continuum, and that matter comes from spirit, some kind of "condensation" operation."

Yes…Yes…Yes….being is congealed consciousness.

10/07/2006 01:15:00 PM  
Anonymous Freaked Out said...

I think the person commenting on their own experience in Amish-land was me. I am a male. I grew up in Reading, PA. My birth mother died three days after I was born. My father was a high-placed Repub business type. I was raised by a series of nannies, the primary one a Mennonite woman, until I was about 4 or 5, when he married a woman with Pennsyvlanian German roots. I don't remember much of the first years (though I am not implying anything.... I believe I had a brush with the monster but somehow escaped its clutches.) The step-mother abused me psychologically and physically with some sexual overtones, but no direct contact. This continued until the day I offered to beat the shit out of her at age 15 if she continued. I have no memory of anything super-hellacious (that was hellacious enough) and I survived intact and am now near 60, in good mental, psychological and spiritual health, having raised two wonderful kids of my own. But in researching MK and MC,I ran across a web site which is no longer "up" which was run by Kathleen Sullivan and which featured a picture of a child at a birthday party (which freaked me out because I have some psycho-trauma around a similar setting), and also a picture of a man by the name of William Shirk, a relative of my step-mother, which really freaked me out because I instantly and viscerally recognized the man. Google for the pic and you will see it. Sullivan is, of course, the woman interviewed by Jeff x 4.

-- --
From http://www.meta-religion.com/Secret_societies/Groups/Illuminati/savage_new_times.htm :

"...the ultimate purpose of that assassination was no political or economic but sorcerous: for the control of the dreaming mind and the marshaling of its forces is the omnipotent force in this entire scenario of lies, cruelty and degradation. Something died in the American people on Nov. 22, 1963 -- call it idealism, innocence or the quest for moral excellence. It is the transformation of human beings which is the authentic reason and motive for the Kennedy murder..."
The seemingly random and senseless slaughter of a President the week before Thanksgiving, by having his head blown apart in those now infamous Zapruder film frames, is the signpost of humanity's entry into what David Cronenberg in his Videodrome Rosicrucian cinematic manifesto termed, "Savage New Times."

The search for the three assassins has become a trip up and down Tim Finnegan's ladder, a ladder containing "one false step after another." It is a masonic riddle several magnitudes above the pedestrian, CIA-Mafia-Anti-Castro-Castro-KGB-Texas rightwing etc. etc. political "solutions" pushed by the various books and movies which sometimes only serve to confuse and demoralize us all the more.

“...the realization that whoever could kill a president of the United States in broad daylight and get away with it, could get away with anything.”

--"Secret Societies and Psychological Warfare," pp. 91-95.
("Secret Societies and Psychological Warfare" is available for U.S. $12.95 plus $2.50 shipping (overseas remit $5.00 shipping), from: Independent History and Research, Box 849, Coeur d'Alene, Idaho 83816.)

"The perpetrators deliberately murdered JFK in such a way as to affect our national identity and cohesiveness -- to fracture America's soul. Even the blatancy of their conspiracy was designed to show their "superiority" and our "futility." "They" were doing to the nation what they had been doing to individuals for years."

--
Catherine Austin Fitts, one of the original 9/11 whistle-blowers, says that "the chances of this [the PA incident] being manchurian candidate type covert ops are pretty close to a sure thing."

BTW, read her article at http://dunwalke.com/ and see all of the "resources" and links behind it. Then, if you want "answers" and "solutions", go to her Solari web site and read about "coming clean" from "the tapeworm". She has more in the works too ;<).

10/07/2006 05:10:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I now see it is not only the Amish Killer but us being manipulated.

shocking and fragmenting the ich

10/07/2006 06:15:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

darpa coin


each one is individually numbered and made of gold.

Collect them all

10/07/2006 06:33:00 PM  
Anonymous eris said...

The Jonestown Death Tape (FBI No. Q 042) (November 18, 1978)

An audio recording made on November 18, 1978, at the Peoples Temple compound in Jonestown, Guyana immediately preceding and during the mass suicide or murder of over 900 members of the cult.

available for download here -
http://www.archive.org/details/ptc1978-11-18.flac16

10/09/2006 04:58:00 PM  
Anonymous mailer daemon said...

Jeff.et al.

In case you missed it. Located via a Cooperative Research article on psychotronic weapons. May perhaps serve to narrow the 'berth' somewhat. Btw, all FOIA requests to the Pentagon have been suspended until provision/legislation sunsets.

HR 2977

Scroll down to-
SEC. 7. DEFINITIONS.

10/09/2006 11:06:00 PM  
Anonymous mailer daemon said...

Snippets of text sent to Association of National Security Alumni.

...these weapons systems may indeed be operational, have been operational to one extent or another in prototype form since 1987 (which corresponds approximately to the unprecedented spike in U.S. consumption of Prozac and other pharmaceutical usage), and have been one of the main thrusts of the R & D behind the Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI).

10/10/2006 12:15:00 AM  
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