Tuesday, March 27, 2007



let's disconnect these cables - Bob Dylan

On the other hand.

I think I need to perform an intervention on myself here, and admit that I'm burned out. There are only so many nights in a week I can sit up until 5AM and still not have found the words for what I'm trying to say. It's not good.

So I need to take April off, and I suppose that's starting now. I'd rather not, but if I want water in the well that's how it has to be. Not to mention that this still needs, shall we say, attention.

I see the archive needs a lot of updating, and I'd like to refresh the links, so I'll do that and then slip out. But don't let me stop you. I won't lock the door behind me.

Here's hopes for an Apocalypse-free April, and I'll see you May 1.

243 Comments:

Blogger waffle waitress said...

Go ahead. Take all the time in the world, dear.

3/27/2007 07:06:00 AM  
Blogger goritsas said...

Jeff,

I'm not at all happy with this. A month? Surely you can perform a hardware reset in a week or two? Max. How can you possibly put your needs before those of your readers? Thanks a lot. I knew I liked this place before, but after a month I'm gunna be feeling desperate. You’d better have a post done, dusted and published come 2007-05-01 00:00:00, or you’d better be ready for trouble.

Thanks for all the work you put in for the rest of us. It is immense, awesome, and as good as it gets.

jimbo
;-)

3/27/2007 07:09:00 AM  
Blogger Sam Hill said...

Peaches! Is that you up there?
Want to share a cuppa joe with me?

3/27/2007 07:11:00 AM  
Blogger Kosan said...

Did you know that when MacArthur went to dictate terms to Hirohito they claimed there was no word in Japanese for surrender?

But there was. Kosan

3/27/2007 07:26:00 AM  
Blogger Fructedor said...

Rest up Jeff - and don't worry about whether you're part of the problem or part of the solution while you're at it. What you accomplish is quite remarkable.

Best wishes

Fructedor

3/27/2007 07:38:00 AM  
Blogger Rasheed said...

This.
This the Beloved’s name can do, in love.

Vulgar people are always saying ‘holy’ names,
Or words like ‘as above, so...’
But nothing ever works for them,
Because they are not endowed with real love.

The miracle Jesus did by the name of God,
Came to another through the name of Joseph.
When the soul is one with God.... to speak of that
Is this, to speak of this is that.

She was empty of self and filled with love for her friend.
The pot drips what is in it:
The saffron scent of union produces laughter.
The onion smell of separation elicits tears.

Everyone has in his heart a hundred objects of desire,
But this is not the way of taking care, or of true love.

3/27/2007 08:05:00 AM  
Blogger Clint Laskowski said...

What am I suppose to do for a month? Read tea leaves?

3/27/2007 09:24:00 AM  
Blogger ericswan said...

Jeff. Let's hope you move over to the new blogger sometime soon. If there is one thing making me uneasy about the future, it's this blog being stuck in the past.

3/27/2007 09:40:00 AM  
Blogger Sounder said...

Yesterday I worked with a new guy trying out for the crew.

He told me of many sordid tales relating to the breakdowns in his life. Too much information, much too quick.

As my mood was one of compassion yesterday, I gently indicated that perhaps these unpleasant events might be related to lessons that he needs to learn. And that the shit will stop when he starts to learn his lessons.

One minute later he informed us that his IQ was 167. I said; 'dude you really should not have said that. Now I will feel obligated to show you how ignorant you really are.'

He obliged me a few hours later when he said something negative about gay people. I asked him, how could a person be made better by denying them opportunity for intimate love connections? How can that make them better people?

Not to be judgmental, but this guy seems to have problems with his love connections, and he wants everyone else to share in his problem.

To his credit he did respond, ten minutes later, somewhat sheepishly; ‘well we all do have different things to learn.’

Peace

3/27/2007 10:09:00 AM  
Blogger john kerry said...

Jeff,
Why does your book have 322 pages?You know that is our number.

3/27/2007 12:53:00 PM  
Blogger surrender said...

Sounder,

Thanks for that little story.
Imagine interacting with people who have no education and still do not understand that cutting trees to BURN is destroying future life for their childrena and the country.

It is truly only about Love and Compassion or we who see what others cannot see yet, will fall to wayside and have no impact.

PS I answered you last comment on the previous blog It's the Real Thing.

Thank you

3/27/2007 12:59:00 PM  
Blogger Dr. Bombay said...

Jeff...
I just checked in with the
local office of the "Powers That
Be" and they told me that, for a
small fee of course, they would
be more than willing to put off
the end of the world until May,
but the attack on Iran is still
on for April 6th. So rest up and
re-load, I think ya gonna need it.

3/27/2007 01:10:00 PM  
Blogger jay said...

So many posts of wonder and daring. I fear the end of these brilliant little jewels in the sands .. Until May Day then.

The waffle waitress may be a bitch, but she's right: find the best ground to stand on, and be classy about it!

3/27/2007 01:12:00 PM  
Blogger surrender said...

Sounder:

I am not sure what your PS was about but if you would like to research the impact on people’s lives who have read these volumes in a series of 6 books, you can find them online under the title.

I only refer to these writings as proof that we all have the power and abilities to create and recreate our reality. What the masters have been able to manifest in their daily lives seems almost impossible to many, but I am sharing one more excerpt that may or may not inspire anyone who is really seeking to live in the Truth. There is a distinction made by the masters between Christ Consciousness and Jesus. Christ is not a person but a state of being One with God. Jesus and other masters demonstrate that we ALL have the ability to live in this conscious state of creation. I have a personal belief that in my lifetime there will be a Great Transformation of Life on this Earth and we will come to full Realization of the Self and our destiny to create Paradise on Earth. Idealistic??? Yeah, but we must find new ways of reacting to the perceived atrocities that humans and all life are suffering from every day.

"There is no question that these Masters have brought the Light through the long ages and they prove by their daily life and works that this Light does exist just as it did thousands of years ago."
Baird T. Spalding, author of Life and Teachings of the Masters of the Far East.

www.homestead.com/pamelaparnell/life.html - 31k


"All are reaching out to help those that are striving for more light and the messages that we are continually sending out into the Universal are being interpreted by God's children who are receptive, in every part of the earth today. This is the prime object of reaching this realm or state of consciousness, for we are able to help all in some way. We can and do talk with and instruct those who are receptive and who raise their consciousness, either through their own efforts or the assistance of another. Another cannot do the work for you nor can another carry you along indefinitely. You must decide to do the work for yourself, then do it. Then you are free and self-reliant. When all come into the consciousness, as Jesus did, that the body is a spiritual body and indestructible, and hold themselves in this consciousness, then we shall be able to communicate with all and give out the teaching we have received to a greater number. We are privileged to know that all can accomplish all that we have accomplished and, thereby, solve every problem of life; and that which has been looked upon as difficult and mysterious will be found simple.

"I do not seem any different to you from any other man that you meet every day, neither do I see any difference in you."

We said we thought we could see something far finer in him. He answered, "that is only the mortal as compared with the immortal of man. If you would only look for the God quality and not make any comparison, you would see every human being as you see me; or by looking for the Christ in every face you would bring forth that Christ, or God quality, in all. We make no comparisons; we see only the Christ or God quality in all at all times and in that way we are out of your vision. We see perfection or have perfect vision, while you see imperfection or have imperfect vision. Until you are in contact with someone who is able to instruct you, until you can raise your consciousness where you can see and converse with us as you are now doing, our teaching seems only inspirational in nature. It is not inspiration when we are conversing or attempting to converse with one. This is only in the nature of instruction leading to the point where the true inspiration can be received. It is inspiration only when it comes direct from God and you let God express through you; then you are with us.

"The ideal image of the flower in minutest detail is within the seed and must expand, multiply, unfold, and be wrought into the perfect flower by hourly preparation. When this inner image is complete in minutest detail, the flower comes forth beautiful. Just so God holds the ideal image of every child in mind, the perfect image through which He wishes to express. We can get more out of this ideal way of expression than the flower does if we will but let God express through us in the ideal way He has conceived for us. It is only when we take things into our own hands that the problems and difficulties begin. This is not for one, or a few, this is for all. It has been shown us that we are not different from you. It is a difference in understanding, that is all.

"All the different isms, cults, and creeds, all the different angles of all beliefs, are all good for they will eventually lead their followers to the realization that underneath all there is a deep factor of actuality that has been missed, a deep something that has not been contacted or they have failed to contact that which rightly belongs to them, which they can and should rightfully possess. We see it is this very thing that will eventually drive man to possess all. The very fact that man knows there is something to possess, which can be possessed and which he has not, will goad him on until he has it. It is in this way every step in advance is made in all things. The idea is first pressed out from God's into man's consciousness and he sees there is something ahead if he will but go on. Here man usually blunders and fails to recognize the source from which the idea came; but thinks that it came wholly from within himself. He gets away from God and, instead of letting God express through him the perfection God sees for him, he goes on and expresses in his own way and brings forth imperfectly the thing which should be perfectly wrought or manifest.

"If he should but realize that every idea is a direct, perfect expression from God and, as soon as this idea comes to him, he would immediately make it his ideal to be expressed from God, then take his mortal hands off and let God express through him the perfect way, this ideal would come forth perfect. Here we must realize that God is above the mortal and the mortal cannot help in any way. In this way man would learn in a short time to express perfection. The one great thing man must learn is to get forever through and out of the psychic or mind forces and express directly from God, for all psychic forces are created wholly by man and they are likely to mislead."

3/27/2007 01:16:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

On the last little "almost ready" thread, immo attributed an interesting quote from the "The Owl" to me, a mistake which Sounder rectified with the appropriate link. I followed this link and was pleased to find a very intelligent page of speculations on the harmonic nature of enlightenment, complete with an excerpt from Tolkien's Music of the Ainur, which formed the introduction to Mr. CuriosityShop's The Sound of Music, Part 1 and Part 2, as well as many other fascinating observations and links. Whether you've already taken taken this trip or not, it's an invigorating, rejuvenating experience that our host would do well to consider himself.

As Christopher sagely indicated in the last full, brawling thread, those who delve into the nature of what we know and how we know it are in many ways "delicate beings" (since their receptiveness both affords them deeper insights than are normally available through the consumer-intended, officially-sanctioned interfaces between us and reality, and also exposes them to the many dangers of the Chapel Perilous.) A perilous journey it is, but if we weren't ready for the adventure, would we have opened our eyes for the coming attractions that Jeff and others have presented for us?

The choice is already made, once you've peeled back the first layer of the onion of existence--how can we go back and pretend that the flat & stale consensus reality is "all there is"? Being well acquainted with trips of an unusual nature, I can tell you that not all you'll see is necessarily "true," but this in itself does not mean that all the sights along the way are illusions or, worse, delusions. We've enough of those in the old theater of the mind. My suggestion is to listen to your intuition: it's a faithful guide if you give it the confidence it needs to steer you past the dangers to the great goal of the seeker. Not knowing, but understanding.

I've posted an enormous number of links that discuss the harmonic nature of enlightenment in the past, everything from the philosophical/scientific (Haselhurst's Wave Theory of Matter, De's The Cat & the Eel, etc., etc.) to economic, linguistic and spiritual explanations. While Jeff is away, centering himself, I'm going to follow Sounder's advice and create a web page of these links with brief descriptions but no narration.

I'd also like to echo Christopher's advice that we all take this time to engage in a little centering ourselves. Judging from the hostility & frustration with which the past few months' threads have been seething, I'd say we needed it. We are under psycho-sonic attack (although not necessarily from those agents about whom we normally speculate). There are tremendous pressures, both external and internal, washing over us currently. The signs are everywhere.

How often has Jeff mentioned "flu-like symptoms"? How many times have people here reported strange experiences & dreams connected to the elevated weirdnesses in which we dabble? Often enough for the following to have struck me as being significant. In Gregg Braden's WALKING BETWEEN THE WORLDS - A NEW JOURNEY, we find these curious passages:

...the etheric blueprint floods with light and releases karmic experiences, individuals may feel disoriented as well as experience of 'bouts of flu'. Many begin to question "why am I here". Light in the etheric blueprint releases 4th dimensional structure and causes spins in the geometries of the emotional, mental and spiritual bodies. Change is rapid and many feel tired.

This is the dissolution of the ego-self and while ecstatic, it can be most painful. Making the leap can be fearful even though we have evolved through eons of time to reach this point. We may go back and forth, clinging to old comfort zones before completely letting go - there is no turning back and all must be released. 9th level is surrender and then ecstasy; the letting go of the "I" - we realize that while free will is real it is also an illusion as it only there to guide us and to empower us to be One with Spirit. Survival fears leave - focus in on the Now at one-at-ment. Though fears may surface, they seem unreal and are easily put aside.

We tend to disconnect from consensus reality and our choices and reality seem unreal to others. From the 7th, 8th and 9th the inner light noticeably radiates out and by now you feel unbelievably grounded, connected, centered, filled with purpose and desiring only to serve. For awhile you may slip between the 8th & 9th, from feeling complete at-one-ment to being ' a limited human being' again, this settles down by the end of the 9th level. You then continually feel connected and operate from your Christ level and your intention and motivation is always for the highest, although others, due to their own inner triggers and issues, may not always choose to see that...


Leaving aside the New Age trappings & chakras for a moment, I believe some of this stuff resonates with what's happening to us. When we follow those vibrations to ZERO POINT AND SCHUMANN RESONANCE, we find yet more:

The Zero Point flip will probably introduce us to the 4th dimension.

Here, everything we think or desire will instantly manifest. This includes love and fear. Our INTENTION will be of utmost importance.

(Excerpt from the book The Art of Resonance)

One last related and vastly entertaining bone I'm tossing to the community is Kubrick2001: the Space Odyssey Explained. That should be enough to start you on the journey...

Take care and wear it well,

IC

3/27/2007 01:45:00 PM  
Blogger just_another_dick said...

Cool! Stupid co-worker stories.

I want to join in.

This weekend I worked with my ex-pat African buddy C. Super cool guy. Loves his family & loves to laugh.

They sent us a temp named Bill. Evidently a Limbaugh fan who hates liberals.

About an hour into the shift ol' Bill tells C. that "he needs to go back to Africa until he learns how to speak English right."

While C took it well & I just flipped Bill the finger, J, another co-worker of ours saw red. He wanted to beat the living shit out of ol' Bill.
Let me tell you, trying to hold back a pissed off 6' 4" 250 lb. redneck is a motherfucker.

Granted Bill deserved a pummeling, but J has 2 daughters & he needs the job.

Now here's what I consider to be the up side to this story.
About 7 years ago when J started he hated black folk. They were just a "bunch a niggers."
But now, after 7 years of working side by side with black folk, he's willing to beat the shit out of anyone with the same dipshit attitude.

Kind of cool, eh?

3/27/2007 01:55:00 PM  
Blogger Shrubageddon said...

But before he "sucks in the air" (putrified, or otherwise), he must snap out of his trance....right, Silverfox? Let's not forget the trance, shall we.

Speaking of work...today I declined a lucrative potential opportunity with a manufacturer who supplies the military...on moral grounds. It would have been a 30-40% increase in compensation....a bitter pill to swallow, but I will not directly support these bastards if I can help it.

3/27/2007 03:29:00 PM  
Blogger Silverfox said...

Well Jeff...

Spring is once again in the air and the larger themes and tones of the planet itself cannot be ignored.

There is no need to apologise or make excuses for yourself for hearing that call and even less for heeding it.

It's always the right thing to do and this is always the best possible time to do it.

It is far more important just to walk in the sun and suck in the air and reconnect with that on its own terms and remind yourself that "everything else" is small indeed by comparison, and always will be.

New thoughts and ideas have no better prospects of growing and being productive for us than anything elses if we don't invest our time in all the grubby little tasks of laying the "groundwork" for them as well...hmmm? LOL

You're not burned out, you just need some time to get your "mental landscape" in order. What you want to do will come clear and "fire you up" once you clear the way for it to be seen.

There are no end of things to chew on, or up, or around, in this place, and there are always snacks aplenty to share, so no ones going to go hungry in the meantime.

Besides, the longer you take the tastier anything new you bring us will be.

So take this under advisement and don't forget to "give yourself a break" while you're giving yourself this break.

Fondest Regards From the Fox

3/27/2007 04:15:00 PM  
Blogger Mark said...

"There is no need to apologise or make excuses for yourself for hearing that call and even less for heeding it."

There is if he is running away from an argument carried on throughout the past three threads (which we don't have to rehash here, just read back), expecting to forget about it.

Though one thing I wanted to say:

In our last episode,...

thanks ericswan for that janedoe link to the controlled demolition pictures (which could take a full month to go through it all); as well as very strange "exotic" weaponry issues evidence they post that seems to have evaporated steel while leaving a great deal of paper and aluminum intact.

If directed energy weapons (or microwave), as argued in these pages, was utilized on 9-11 (and strange top secret explosives leaving 'upshot' craters through 8-10 floors of a steel framed building while leaving the bottom floors intact--the whole WTCs on 9-11 seem some sort of live action test and use of all sorts of U.S. military exotic technology.

Steel 'evaporating' off of cars? And deep within cars, from unexposed areas of the car even though up to 7 blocks away? Leaving other non-steel aspects of cars intact?

"A reported 1400 vehicles were damaged on 9/11. [Reference] These vehicles had peculiar patterns of damage and some were as far away as FDR Drive (about 7 blocks from the WTC, along the East River). Vehicles had missing door handles for example, windows blown out, window frames deformed, melted engine blocks [!] [though the cars body undamaged], steel-belted tires with only the steel belts left [different alloy somehow immune to "electro-tinkering," though it got hot enough to burn away all the rubber of tires leaving the steel in them?], and vehicle front ends destroyed with little or no effect on the back end of the vehicles. What could have caused such extraordinary damage? Portions of cars burned while paper nearby did not."

http://janedoe0911.tripod.com/StarWarsBeam5.html

Hypothesis that it's some Tesla weapon because of the Tesla tests to stop cars electronically to seize up the electrics done before, and because the U.S. would know that the Japanese had perfected microwave Tesla death rays by the close of WWII.
[link is a short 5 minute clip about WWII Japanese microwave war technology]

So, with iron picking up more heat than other materials off such high frequencies, it's blown away, while other metals and materials remain?

All you have to do is put aluminum in the microwave to find that out how it plays across it without melting it; dare ya to put something iron in there (like steel wool) and watch it get red hot really fast;

And if it just takes a minute to melt steel in known technology like this "microwave steel foundry", think what's already been done elsewhere:

Microwave Steel: Faster, Cleaner, Cheaper
Source: Michigan Technological University
Date: January 26, 2004
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/01/040126073254.htm

It involves heating the raw materials up to 1,000 degrees Celsius, about the same temperature as molten lava.

In a matter of minutes, the microwave energy reduced the iron ore to iron,
and the electric arc furnace smelted the iron and coal into steel.

The process could give the steel industry the same benefits that a microwave gives the typical family, says Hwang, an associate professor of materials science and engineering and director of Michigan Tech's Institute of Materials Processing.

It's really cheap, and it's really fast.

"With a blast furnace, most of the heat escapes," Hwang says. "It's like the stove in your home, where most of the heat warms your kitchen. It's inefficient. In our microwave, iron oxides can be heated to 1,000 degrees Celsius in one minute, compared to hours for conventional heating."


From this microwave technology for steel/iron forging, seems steel is very sensitive to exotic effects of directed energy weaponry and/or microwave radiation--while other metals and materials right beside it might be entirely left alone from such microwaving because they fail to be "rattled" by the same frequencies. The coup in the Pentagon does connect with space based exotic weaponry in the "revolution in military affairs" as they call it.

The only logical inconsistency or attempt to "steer research" is the oddity that those janedoe pages strangely deflect from the issue you think they would be most interested in: the molten steel, given they talk about microwave radiation melting steel so easily. The issue of molten steel, despite all the witnesses to it during the period and despite multiple LIDAR scans, they pass up so quickly you could blink through it: they show only questionable LIDAR image, and then call it a day. Their "proof" against it is thus self-limited to one image (a very Jeff Wellsian way of arguing) unlike Ward's piece showing multiple areas. These pages are in the process of being formalized and finished, so perhaps they will adapt a bit of Ward's information into them.

Point of fact, LIDAR does shows molten steel under WTC6 as well--which has some very interesting pictures at the janedoe site. WTC6 molten steel is only airbrushed out in "government reports" of LIDAR pictures, while existing in all other LIDAR pictures, according to that Ward article. And as I said they kept the "investigators" out of WTC6 area.

So aluminum cladding of the outside of WTC and all its paper lay in the street, while its steel melts and/or vaporizes into smoke; it is claimed on their well researched and cited pages that only one filing cabinet from the whole WTCs was ever found.

How many steel filing cabinets were in the WTC? And only one ever found?

Another fireman's report that I read that is sobering is that he claimed that basically he was combing through office and human mulch, that the largest identifiable thing he found was "half a phone key pad."

Here's something else strange: a witness to a self-destructing 'guide plane' for WTC2's hit?

WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW

EMT PATRICIA ONDROVIC

Interview Date: October 1, 2001

I guess that's North Park. It's a big green, grassy area, and there's nothing there. As I was running up here, two or three more cars exploded on me. They weren't near any buildings at that point, they were just parked on the street. The traffic guys hadn't gotten a chance to tow anything yet, cause this was all during the first hour I guess of this thing happening. So there were still cars parked on the street that were completely independent of that. Three cars blew up on me, stuff was being thrown. I went home all bruised that day. Thank God it was only bruises. I just ran into this park along with a bunch of other people, and stuff was still blowing up, I don't think I looked back, but you couldn't see anything, everything was just black. I was running and I was falling over people, cause people were crawling on the ground cause they couldn't see anymore. I just kept on running north. I could smell water, so I just kept on running towards the water, cause I knew that my coat was on fire, and I figured well, if I can see a boat over the water, I'm just gonna jump onto the boat and take that thing to Jersey, cause no one wants to blow up Jersey. Stuff is still blowing up behind me, as I'm running. I can hear stuff exploding. I could hear rumbling, the street under me was moving like I was in an earthquake. I've been in those, so I know what they feel like. It felt like an earthquake. There was no where safe to go. As I was running north in this park, and then I could start seeing again a little bit, and I just kept looking in the sky. Cause the captain was saying there's another plane heading in our direction, I was looking for another plane. I saw something in the sky, it was a plane, but it was way out. It looked like it was over Jersey or something, then it wasn't there anymore. I saw a small fireball, and it was gone. [i.e., not hitting a building, just blowing up on its own, self-detonating, after it's use was over?]

I saw two other planes. One came in one way, and the other came in the other way, and there was a plane in the middle that was way far off in the distance. Then the plane in the middle just disappeared into a little fire ball. [without hitting anything] It looked like the size of a golf ball from where I could see it. And the other two planes veered off into opposite directions. I just kept on running north."


http://janedoe0911.tripod.com/StarWarsAppendix1.html

3/27/2007 04:33:00 PM  
Blogger Jeff said...

I need to interrupt my packing for RI rehab to respond to the fizz of New Truth's "exotic weaponry" with some thirst-quenching Classic Truth.

Last night I posted on the RI board Matthias Broekers' 2004 address "Welcome to Brainwashington" to the Toronto 9/11 Citizens' Inquiry. This, I think, genuinely qualifies as 9/11 scholarship. He's a sharp guy - German translator of the works of Robert Anton Wilson - and I think he made some brilliant observations about what deserves our keenest focus. ("Not the possibility clouds, but the allocatable particles.") Also some interesting revelations there about the identification and cover-up of the 19.

Here's an excerpt:

Since it is the very basic question of every crime investigation – Who dunnit?? - and it is still unanswered, we have to start here – the "Hows?" and "Whys?" and "for what purposes?" and "Cui Bonos", all these questions are important, but they are secondary, in the intrinsic sense of the word. The answers to them stay worthless as long the very first step – the identification of the actual perpetrators - is not done. We have a least two dozens of anomalies of 9/11 and every one of them with quite good evidence, any of them worth a whole book… I don’t dispute these anomalies … But where does it lead, to discuss – lets say the inner explosion of the twin towers, the rockets slung underneath the Boeings or the size of the Pentagon-hole… ? Who can be brought to an indictment with this photoshop-evidence? Nobody I think and therefore I plea for the simple method to make the first step first and look at the 19 alleged perpetrators, the main suspects.

...

That the lone nut and pretended "Communist" Oswald in fact was trained at a secret CIA-Camp with right-wing Cubans came out only 15 years later after the „House Select Committee of Assassinations“ inquiry – and had to be covered up again. So time is not on our side with 9/11 and we should have an urgent look at the question, whether the pretended "Islamist" Atta and his comrades were possibly trained at a secret CIA-front company, too. What Daniel Hopsicker has found on Hufman Aviation points strongly in this direction – the real owner, Wally Hilliard, a retired millionaire, maintains different aviation-companies which attracted attention – beside to be a training camp for terror pilots - on two things only: not selling a single airline-ticket and losing money on a permanent scale – and the trafficking of 40 pounds of Heroin in one of their rental jets. Oops… this time the background of the "lone nut" evildoers must not be labeled "Anti-Castro" as with Oswald, instead "Iran-Contra" as example seems more appropriate. That kind of long-running, secret drug, weapons, and money-laundering-operation – with one end of the business-chain in Florida and the other in Afghanistan, with Osama bin Laden in control of the worlds main source of raw material - seems to me the most realistic background for what happened on 9/11 and for the non-investigation and cover-ups before and after.

....

Once more this shows to me the importance to investigate these hijackers, their true identity and their schedule in the days & months before the attacks; second their money-men and backers; third their capacity to hijack these planes with boxcutters simultaneously, to sneak the air-defense of FAA and NORAD and conduct these high professional aviation tasks –if serious investigations of these three basic questions do not lead to an sufficient amount of evidence to indict these men – we would have to rehabilitate them posthumously and start a whole new search, now for the ones who used them as patsies. I am not a lawyer or a legal expert, but in my opinion it’s the only way to stick with the 19 alleged plotters and make them accountable, with the courts pressing FBI, CIA and White House to put on the table everything they have against them, and a jury deciding if this is sufficient to judge them guilty or not. I believe that we would have seen such a court case already if they had real evidence - and if it happens I presume it would end like the cases against the two "20th Hijackers" in Hamburg. But this is the point to start. It makes no sense to blame entities like "The CIA" , "The Military", "The Illuminati", "Big Oil" or whatever sinister groups as long as we have no individual persons to make them accountable.

Since I plea for simple steps it might be a contradiction that I brought a new "Unknown" into my lecture, suggesting that an Iran-Contra-style drug operation might be background for the mysterious cover-up and non-investigation of the hijackers in Florida. But it seems to makes sense to me: these Arabs were not allowed to move freely in and out the USA since they were known Islamic terrorists preparing an attack – they had a free pass as agents and handlers of a clandestine business, an official wildcard, overruling any suspicions of honest border inspectors or FBI-field agents. Like the 140 prominent Saudis who received a free pass to fly out despite the ordered standdown of all air-traffic. If it were a regular business connection between the Bushes & the Saudis only – oil, defence, Carlyle-group-investments – there would be no real chance for a successful cover-up, for the very reason that the Democrats would have made it a partisan issue. So there must be some irregular business in the closet, from which both parties profit, - like with the Iran-Contra drug money - making camouflage a bi-partisan task. We are not talking of peanuts-money like the investments of some Saudis in G.W. Bush`s failing companies, but of an annual volume of 400 Billion $, as General Wesley Clarke recently estimated the flow of drug money on the Balkans route (which he opened - in coalition with Osama's Al Qaeda-Fighters and NATO - in the yugoslavia war.) If it’s always right to "follow the money" – this seems the real jackpot we should look at.

The complexity of 9-11 is huge and it’s important to keep track and not to get lost in the hall of mirrors. So "Keep it simple" seems a good advice to me and I tried to follow it with my remarks here. There can be no doubt at all that the Bush-regime exploited 9-11 for their long planned wars and their cronies profits - and at the same time did everything to prevent any reasonable investigation.

3/27/2007 05:29:00 PM  
Blogger tazmic said...

IC,

Yes, you really need to collate your links! If you weren't doing it for me, thank you, I should have to myself.

As for walking between worlds, I detect here, and in a other recent posts, ideas that seem tied to The Secret. Maybe I didn't realise how pervasive this notion had become. Or maybe I'm just creating coincidence through seeing what I want to see...

As far as seeing is believing goes... sometimes I think I am much better at believing, than I am at seeing, which makes all the difference.

I must admit an attraction to vast spiritual models that categorise all the levels of the enlightenment hierarchy, god knows (clearly) how eager & quick my mind is to construct theory and teleology for everything I encounter. As if searching for the One True Mission. And unfortunately I'm rather good at it! But at the same time I haven't managed to convince myself that this pervasive notion of progress isn't just another grand illusion in our collectively obsessive mind, either in the realms of the spirit or of the secular.

As mystical experience often has the quality of remembrance or rediscovery, it seems odd the place it atop some sisyphean trail....

Anyway, thankyou for inspiring writing, and for not getting lost in the medium, for sticking to the message.

3/27/2007 06:09:00 PM  
Blogger Buck said...

I hope you have a good month off. I can completely understand. I need a whole year off!

I hope your hiatus doesn't last because I come by this site daily for reading material and I am afraid a month will make me go into withdrawals!

Anyway, the best on your hiatus and return soon! Please!

3/27/2007 06:16:00 PM  
Blogger Christopher said...

I think Jeff's posting of Matthias Broekers' comments on 9/11 were very helpful. I'm not sure I agree with him but he made some very good points that stand up pretty well.

I am interested, chiefly, in the fact that the 9/11 story not a story in any but relatively fringe areas of society. What is particularly interesting is why the "left" even the "radical" left has completely ignored 9/11 as an issue. Often the stridency in defending 9/11 orthodoxy borders on the hysterical.
This attitude of the traditional left is very curious. I think some kind of virus/meme has infected upper-middle class intellectuals in this country--unless that changes shortly there can be no real political opposition.

The media focus on the "horse race" is not there because they are corrupt (they are no more corrupt than other industries) but that they are simply stating the facts. There ain't no such thing as politics in America because there are no (or few) real communities with power in the traditional sense; there are, rather, feudal Lords with vast hierarchies of minions under their protection.

I know something about the powerful in Washington (though not much)--the players are in it for the joy of the game. They like pitting their wits against an opponent. Ideology is secondary or tertiary (behind getting laid), not because any of these people were always cynical (though some were) it's just that once you get into "the game" it is, like all really interesting games, very addicting.

At any rate I'd like to know if anyone has any ideas on the nature of the disease afflicting most intellectuals on the left. It is interesing that it seems from my experience that the right-libertarians are much more open to new ideas than most people on the left.

And by the way, this is why I treasure those who have the psychic courage to actually think outside the box. We need to support each other. IC, thanks for your comments.

3/27/2007 09:15:00 PM  
Blogger Silverfox said...

Suffering Air-sucking Synchronicity Shrubster...

I believe I said we are all born in a trance we can't get out of, which is probably why our post's would look far more logical in reverse order...hmmm? Not that writing replies to posts that haven't arrived yet or sometimes never do is particularly unusual for you. LMAO

Oddly enough I read Jeff's piece and was simply moved to give him a little send-off without bothering to look at anything else here first, nevermind that mine should right fall on the tail of your's as if I was sitting here waiting for your call and you had some mysterious way of knowing that.

Perhaps we both do with a deep breath, polluted or otherwise...hmmm? LOL

3/27/2007 09:36:00 PM  
Blogger Shrubageddon said...

Yeah, Silverfox, I've had a few bouts of precognition as of late. I told you I have special powers. When I sit in bed to read at night my bedside table lamp goes bezerk....it starts popping in and out...but it's perfectly calm and normal when I'm not near.

I will agree with you that we all are in a trance...and that the trances can be proxies for the boxes/spheres/containment....but I don't agree with Sounder that you can wake up from the trance....you can only replace one with another...it's the nature of our existence...so it seems....and that's all we have to go on...so it seems, I mean.

3/27/2007 10:14:00 PM  
Blogger #1 Sniffer said...

Christopher said: “What is particularly interesting is why the "left" even the "radical" left has completely ignored 9/11 as an issue.”

In reality both sides are the same side though they play their parts to suck in the masses. The political model we are taught is a complete fraud, only to fool and appease us, the “masses” to have us take responsibility for how bad things are because we come to believe we voted for it. We didn’t, it was all decided beforehand behind the scenes. It’s actually a sophisticated modern form of slavery. We think we’re free, we’re not, we’re slaves (and the screws are being tightened), we live in a world of illusion and its very hard to break out. We don’t live in free countries, we live in theocratic dictatorships. The religion is not Christian, but what Christians would call pagan. It’s ancient, pre-dating Christianity. They operate through a multitude of layers of secret societies and globalist organizations, and infiltration. The US was like this since its founding. The US is a Masonic nation. Look at this link for the architecture of Washington, D.C. and realize the significance of it and that our founding fathers commissioned it’s design and approved it (plus another link on how the control works).

http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/chapter3/index.htm

http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/manipulation/index.htm

The ruling-elite doesn’t view the “masses” as truly human, and their pagan religions practice human sacrifice as part of occult rituals. This is why they can do 911 and create these genocides and wars. Even the ruling class is brainwashed from birth to enjoy killing. We are now entering a phase where they are restructuring the world where many will die, it’s called the New World Order. This explains the European Union, and now the talk of the North American Union, South American Union, African Union, Asian Union, etc. A next stage will be a world union. All movements like political parties, environmentalism, feminism, etc., are sponsored to create polarization of people, weaken and terrorize them so they can remain enslaved.

This is a oversimplification of it but I think it has a lot of the essence of it. So the answer to you is the “left” (nor the right) was never what it was presented to be, and that is why they always behave in ways inconsistent with their stated philosophy. By controlling the parties, they control the political process and us.

You have to read a lot on this because each of these pieces doesn’t make sense on its own if you look at it from a “normal” world view, other parts need to be understood first. But it’s very shocking to digest one piece after the other until an image from the puzzle is visible. Digesting 911 for me was bad enough but that paled to the rest of this.

911 forced me to research these things because while finally seeing the evidence it was an inside job, it was so unbelievable and inconceivable that our own people could take part in it. I had to explain to myself how that could be possible. Both Kerry and Bush were Skull and Bones, both are related by blood, related to the European royals, and they’re also related to Al Gore and even Colin Powell believe it or not (the ruling class elite is also a hereditary class of people).

Hope this helps. Don't believe me or anyone on these topics, you have to examine them for yourself.

3/27/2007 11:45:00 PM  
Blogger Patron Eyes said...

is it cruel to be kind not to speak my mind
and to lie to you rather than hurt you
well ill confess all of my sins after several large gins
but still ill hide from you, hide whats inside from you
and alarm bells ring. when you say your heart still sings.
when your with me, oh darling please forgive me

but i no longer hear the music oh no no no no

and all the memories of the pubs and the clubs,
and the drugs and the tubs we shared together
will stay with me forever..
but all the highs and the lows and the to's and
the fro's they left me dizzy
oh wont you please
forgive me

but i no longer hear the music oh no no no no

The libertines.

Oh how I empathize with those idealistic minds on a road to discovery, thinking that the message they have crafted will awaken the masses to the reality of their perilous state. I can only laugh and say I no longer hear the music..

3/28/2007 01:47:00 AM  
Blogger Patron Eyes said...

is it cruel to be kind not to speak my mind
and to lie to you rather than hurt you
well ill confess all of my sins after several large gins
but still ill hide from you, hide whats inside from you
and alarm bells ring. when you say your heart still sings.
when your with me, oh darling please forgive me

but i no longer hear the music oh no no no no

and all the memories of the pubs and the clubs,
and the drugs and the tubs we shared together
will stay with me forever..
but all the highs and the lows and the to's and
the fro's they left me dizzy
oh wont you please
forgive me

but i no longer hear the music oh no no no no

The libertines.

Oh how I empathize with those idealistic minds on a road to discovery, thinking that the message they have crafted will awaken the masses to the reality of their perilous state. I can only laugh and say I no longer hear the music..

3/28/2007 01:48:00 AM  
Blogger neomunk said...

Did you guys check the youtube link I left yesterday? It's about at the bottom of the page. If you had I would've expected to see some kind of comment about it.

It looks like a damn nuke set off in Iraq.

I swear it does. It's not the mushroom cloud that freaks me out, it's the flash. I think (but I'm no weapons expert) that that flash was too bright to be a conventional weapon, no matter the size.

Here's the link again:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fNt4wEfeTg&mode=related&search=

If you're impatient, wait till it buffers up a little and start it at 0:50.

Is this a known fake and I'm slow or something? This video has bothered me greatly since I saw it. I mean, I know we were already using nuclear weapons in a 'passive' way (DU) but this freaked me out... That's why I came here with it, this place freaks me out, but in a constructive way.

3/28/2007 01:52:00 AM  
Blogger Mark said...

On neomunk's question:

I’m surprised that this micronuke picture is still up on youtube. When it was posted (about three months ago?) at Google, it was removed within hours. Ergo: it’s probably real.

This was that explosion at a U.S. military munitions dump several months ago in Baghdad.

The story aired was that it was a well planned attack by native Iraqis to destroy it. (I only say supposedly to keep in mind that the U.S. 'treason wing' is quite able to attack itself as well, so beware how the story is structured, and at least admit that’s all we have been told so far).

In the attack, described as associated with a very good security breach, the whole thing goes up. If the Iraqis did know, for argument’s sake, that the U.S. had started to import micronukes into the invasion of their country, I suppose that would be top priority to somehow disable or damage the thing before it was really set exactly where the U.S. wanted to nuke--instead of exploding in their ammunition dump.

And it looks like they had some sort of micronuke there. Who knows where in the world they were planning on using that. Construction micronukes are more radiological clean, though still can kill from the more short term radiation. As a U.S. Government and NATO demolitions expert/geologist, that Fred Schneider guy before he was assassinated about 15 months after he started talking about state terrorism said that he was involved in the top secret study of the aftermath of the ‘attack on the WTC’ in 1993—where he noted in his private governmental report that a “only construction grade micronuke” from Mathers Air Force Base could have done the damage he saw, utilized in the 1993 WTC attack. After he did the report, he was surprised that the U.S. Government wanted to hire him to “perfect” the next WTC attack. He soon after quit/escaped from his top secret military base job. He started saying all this in his public talks. You can still see them, because some of them were filmed. They were on Google Video for free last time I checked, though they can be bought as well.

The Baghdad munitions dump of the U.S. Army going up in a bright mushroom looks a lot like the “Bali bomb,” that by killing Australians (and sear-charring them like radiological bombs do from pictures of bodies; and with characteristic nuke explosion damage as analyzed by the late Joe Vialls) roped in the Southern Hemisphere’s part of Oceania (Australia) into the entirely fictitious UK/US’s ‘war on terror’.

3/28/2007 05:09:00 AM  
Blogger ericswan said...

Mark..The one thing that bothers me the most is this overwhelming feeling that TPTB "need" every square inch of the planet, every landscape be it physical or mental under some kind of control. It's like their greatest fear is the guy tinkering away in his garage and eureka evaporates their passion play into oblivion.

I think there are more "free souls" out there and they have moved the process of evolution way out there just by their being. They have knowledge "gifted" to them to balance the black and the white, the light and the dark. The last thing we need is to codify the truth. We need freedom but this is not found by hardening one set of facts versus another.

Dorothy got it right. It is somewhere over the rainbow.

3/28/2007 05:15:00 AM  
Blogger Mark said...

Hi Eric:

The last thing we need is to codify the truth. We need freedom but this is not found by hardening one set of facts versus another.

I hope you're not thinking that's me--if anyone fits that, it has been Jeff over and over.

Particularly because of what I said on the last several threads about false mutual exclusivity that gets peddled by different writers on the topic of 9-11 or anything else.

3/28/2007 05:38:00 AM  
Blogger Tsoldrin said...

On the 'micronuke'...

Extremely unlikely. Besides the fact that there's no reason to have one in country (it's not lack of superweapons that's the problem, far from it), and besides the fact that if it was one lots of folks with radiation sensors and badges would be screaming bloody murder... that's really about the size of an explosion I'd expect from an ammo dump. I once saw a fireworks plant blow and it broke windows for miles around and made a huge (but skinny) mushroom like cloud and it could be heard over 15 miles away. That was just fireworks - for show, not heavy duty vehichle and bunker destroying stuff you'd find at an ammo dump.

Also, neither the camera nor the much closer surrounding lights went out from the expected electro magnetic pulse. In fact, you can see that after the big flash, some of the lights are no longer visible for a moment but return - this makes it seem likely that the camera was using some sort of image intensifier to enhance light at night which was super saturated briefly. That same intesifier probably enhanced whatever flash there was way out of proportion.

Finally, this video is months old, the explosion took place in an obviously populated area... where are the reports of tens of thousands of people dying of radiation sickness? A micronuke would be much worse than a dirty bomb.

Not everything is a grand conspiracy. Raising a hue and cry over things which have a simple explanation only serves to lessen the gravity of the events which deserve real scrutiny.
---

On 'The Left'...

The left has abandoned Progressive thinking much the way the Right has abandoned Conservatism. They were really only ever pseudo-intellectuals anyway, so it's probably a weight off their shoulders to drop all the pretention. What seems rather clear is they've brainwashed their base to look towards one goal - to control both houses and the executive all at the same time. Then they will 'set everything right' and damn everything that's not politically beneficial in the meantime, especially the issues.

Those that think there is no difference between the left and right... the old 'two sides of the same coin' crowd are simpletons. Both sides work for the same masters, but they are distinctly different. Each wants to wet it's beak and neither wants to share with the other. They're both dealers in a crooked game. The House gets its take no matter who deals, so they're left to fight over who that is, as long as it doesn't disrupt 'the game'. The ironicle part of it all is that it has it's own neat little circle of life. They take bribes and use it to buy our favor or votes, in turn they repay the bribes with our money. We are the integral element.

3/28/2007 06:44:00 AM  
Blogger Mark said...

Tsoldrin:

"Finally, this video is months old, the explosion took place in an obviously populated area... where are the reports of tens of thousands of people dying of radiation sickness? A micronuke would be much worse than a dirty bomb.

Micronukes are more radiologically clean, as I said. Alpha radiation. Most Geiger wouldn't even register it. As for the electric pulse, it would be localized, and besides I don't think we can state clearly exactly what is going on on the far horizon back there whether lights went off or not. As for that white bright light from a point shining over the entire city, true, we're looking at some sort of night photography, though from other pictures of exploded ordinance nothing quite compares to this sudden singular point of explosion moving across the sky in one blast.

Besides, nobody is going to die of a "dirty bomb." That's all a fear tactic invented by the neocons. The best discussion of this fear tactic and the myth of the permanently dirty bomb that will kill thousands and thousands (actually it probably won't even kill one person), is in the British documentary The Power of Nightmares which you can watch on Google Video, pts. 1-3.

If a "dirty bomb" is ever used, its for a psyop reaction to justify what the neocons want to do socially: set up martial law in a particular area without really self-inflicting permanent damage on "their property".

And for that Baghdad video, I was never confident on what it was.

(I was gaugeing [sp?] that it was important because of how quick it was removed from Google Video, similar to how Google Video quickly removed the BBC pre-reporting and orating about the total collapse of the WTC7 about 30 minutes before it collapsed, and even while it was standing up tall behind the very people from the BCC talking about it.)

Though you are quite confident on what it is not--which I think is the really untenable position and I think people in general get lost more with confidence of what they think is not going on, more than curiosity about what it going on.

And I'd pretty much agree with what you said about the left/right thing, particularly how they are coached to think that their own sides' totalitarianism is to be the goal, instead of the goal being a competitive democracy of representative factions instead of the gatekeeping noncompetitive arrangement elites prefer, which is seen particularly in U.S. gerrymandered electoral districts for instance. Both the Democrats and Republicans agree on that.

3/28/2007 07:49:00 AM  
Blogger ImpeccableLiberalCredentials said...

This is what I've got for the community, for my version of living the second choice of the that owl, for those who can vote for it an enable it in any way.

A dream I just had:

The diversity of forms in our world is significant and worth saving.

I am pretty grateful for that. al hamdulillah, is my most sincere and automatic way of expressing that thankfulness.

3/28/2007 08:43:00 AM  
Blogger Sounder said...

Surrender,

I have read more writings of the masters than I care to admit to. One piece of advice that I take seriously is that we have to do the ‘work’ for ourselves. On top of that all the spiritual types that I meet have better ego tricks and defenses than do more ‘simple’ people. So it is not so simple to discern between the doing and the saying. More later if you care.

Christopher,

It seems the more one is committed to ideology as proper means for having cultural impact, the more one will resist seeing parapolitical forces. After all who and their money wants to think that both are being used for creepy and coercive ends. I cannot imagine the interior life of the committed ideologist that finds out that his masters have little ideology at all.

Gee now, how do I avoid a flame war with shrub, without being 'no where to be found'? LOL

To clear up one thing, while I see current expressions of our trance easily switched to negative polarity expressions, it does not follow that I consider that the trance condition itself will or need be overcome. That would imply enlightenment; an idea that I am not close too. As I said;

"There are hazards to thinking that more information will bring us to solutions for our problems. While true that information bits may save us from embarrassment as we compare our collection with fellow collectors, it is not the stuff providing the glue that holds (our picture or illusion of) reality together. The glue is found in the efficiency that our criteria for understanding connect to the ground of being."

In between the glue and reality here, is, our picture or illusion of. This indicates an acceptance of our trance like nature while promoting the need to change its expressions.

At any rate my investment is in ideas and not in being right.

Also schrub, I am not above it all, I just need to preserve my vital essence. (That is a joke, although less funny on some levels.)

3/28/2007 09:05:00 AM  
Blogger ericswan said...

Mark.. We were writing at the same time. I wasn't referring to you but hardening the truth was definitely not referring to Jeff.

I appreciate that you picked up on my thread to Jane Doe and expanded upon it here to enlighten me and others as to what is going on regards microwave weapons. Tesla's weapon is different in that he was pushing elf into sw and somehow or other could pinpoint and direct the weapon at one one millionth of a millimetre in diameter to a distance of 250 miles more or less. I'm inclined to think that the weapon used on WTC was more in line with your concept of a microwave weapon. My allegory to Dorothy's rainbow being vibratory light emanations from infra red to ultra violet.

3/28/2007 09:49:00 AM  
Blogger MR Vox said...

Good for you. You are a commercial quality writer, you have the right to get paid for what you produce, not spend hours working on a blog for free...
But don't stop producing! Understand the difference there.

3/28/2007 01:17:00 PM  
Blogger surrender said...

Sounder,

The Life and Teachings of the Masters was written by Spalding at the turn of the 20th century. He was with a team of 9 people who recorded their experience and observation of the Masters they lived with for 3 ½ years in Tibet and the Far East.

Their abilities to manifest what many would call miracles were observed recorded and explained to them by these Masters.

These writings, for me, were an experience of what is POSSIBLE when one surrenders the ego and acknowledges the Source of our power to create.

Among these Masters are Jesus and Buddha.

I appreciate your response, and understand our resistance to realizing that we are all amazing human beings with abilities that are beyond even our imagination.

It is not easy for me to express as well as others who comment here. I come here because Jeff and all of you have a way of presenting ideas and points of view that reflect our abilities to discern and discard what is being presented to those of us who have the eyes to see and the ears to hear and the spirit to move beyond the consciousness of death and destruction.

IC

I have followed some of your links and all I have to say is YES!!

Thank you,

I don’t have time now to go back and find who posted the link to the Final Empire and if it was you, thanks.

Our Evolution is upon us……………….those of us who KNOW that we chose to be here on Earth during this time are finding each other and understand that our real job is to survive these times and become Fully Realized Human Beings.

3/28/2007 01:18:00 PM  
Blogger MR Vox said...

Good for you. You are a commercial quality writer, you have the right to get paid for what you produce, not spend hours working on a blog for free...
But don't stop producing! Understand the difference there.

3/28/2007 01:18:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

First off, many thanks to tazmic: those were very kind & encouraging words. I also appreciated your wariness about perceiving connections where none exist, or rather, creating connections through the act of perceiving them. On the inevitable other hand, if you accept the premise that all the seemingly disparate elements of which the universe is "composed" are actually quite thoroughly interconnected, and further, that there's something extraordinarily creative (some would even say formative) about the act of perception itself, then perhaps it's enough to exercise some caution in mapping the relationships.

So many directions to go with this...and here I have to expand my focus to include the many thoughtful comments that followed tazmic's. I'm thinking in particular of all those speculations on what game the "Left" is playing, which of course leads directly to a discussion of what is real and/or not real in both the political game and in the wider world. Even if such questions don't start out as a search for Truth or The Meaning of Life (I believe Monty Python & Douglas Adams have described the best short-term answers up to this point--"a nice fish sandwich once in a while" and "42," respectively), they soon morph into such if the search parameters aren't tightly battened down.

And, ultimately, these parameters cannot be constricted if we are to understand even the particular question at hand.

Please bear with me on this one, folks; I do have a concrete point to make and will attempt to do so as briefly as possible, but it's a möbius pretzel of a problem, isn't it? This is an extremely apt metaphor because (as that mind bending/expanding Pickover link will show you) there is only one side to the Big Question(s) because the "official" dualism into which all things have been categorized is...fake, meaningless, and empty.

So, let's start small and then eat some of that expanding formula cake. One doesn't need to dig very deep or follow too many para-connections to discover that Kerry and Bush are bloodbrothers. While Tsoldrin might be correct when he says that the Demos & Repugs are competing, even "opposing" entities, they are nonetheless both owned by the same interests. Does it shock us to learn that both "sides" in WWII were financed & supplied by different tentacles of the same siamese octopi? Of course not, but then we are used to such "revelations." For those who still subsist on the bland diet of sanctioned pablum.

The critical mistake that we (the curious ones who've had the temerity to peek behind the curtain) make is that we are so entranced by unraveling the threads in the carpet of deception that we believe that what is being hidden from the Light are the nasty, vicious threads themselves, when all along it's the floor, or foundation of our way of life that the carpet hides. Nazis, bankers, secret societies--these are the threads, not the final truth. It's not enough to decry imperialism and political/economic chicanery; we have to push our intuitive search further. Far enough to see, once the false, dichotmized underpinnings are exposed, what is left. What the true foundations of human existence are. These fundamentally correct underpinnings are hard to see because they're so bloody obvious that we take them for granted.

Before I describe the general outlines of these true foundations, let's very quickly finish dispelling the myths of our bicameral politics. We wonder why the Left won't touch 9/11, but is it really any wonder? What came of all previous inquiries of this nature? The Church Commission of the '70s, the Iran-Contra investigation of the Reagan years? Can you say "Overzealous pursuit of laudable goals"? The grand slap on the wrist gesture: "No more messy assassinations, no more undeniable plausibility."

In other words, Don't get caught next time. Never once were the moral and practical validity of American Interests questioned. No Democrat or left wing intellectual can afford to say that we have no right to protect American Interests, that we have no more right to the world's resources than the illiterate, unwashed masses under whose feet so many of them lie.

No one who is part of the system can declare that the system itself is the problem, that history, politics & economics are nothing more than an elaborate congame whereby scarcity is manipulated to impose an artificial and arbitrary framework upon Nature. Abundance, wisdom and community is denied. Scarcity, knowledge and competition is ensconced as "the natural order."

Try running for office on the Economy of Abundance, Universal Autonomy, End of Hegemony ticket. Try running on any ticket that's not funded by American Interests.

The only way to change any of this, the only solution to our looming doom is to embrace The Other Path.

As I've many times explained, all of our terrible intractable problems are artificial and actually quite easily solved. We don't need oil. At all. For anything. I mention oil because the energy racket is the biggest scam on the planet. It is, in fact, the main pole in the tent in which we live. It's the reason for the wars we wage, it's the model for all the other business in the Empire. Nor do we need some suppressed "free energy" technology (although it does exist and is suppressed.)

All we have to do is to look to Nature, which has already provided for all our needs, energy & otherwise. One thing that humans are very good at is pattern recognition. Nature, as everyone knows, is full of patterns. Sure, we're told that this isn't true, that nature is a savage chaos that we have to dominate and exploit in order to "survive," but this purest strain of bullshit is a fiction whose only relevance is its necessity in supporting the dead universe, scarcity-driven engine that has brought us to the brink. In order to understand and benefit from the patterns in nature, we have to abandon the mono-causal, mechanistic model that's been thrust upon her. There is another science.

The chief characteristic of the other science which I'm always plugging is that it's primarily relational, that is, it's based on understanding how things function in relation with other things. In fact, it has also been demonstrated that our understanding of the world is severely hampered by the linguistic limitations of Western thought. Simply put, the reliance on and prevalence of things, as opposed to processes, keeps us from perceiving the those very important relational aspects.

As a result, we're saddled with this oddly lifeless concept of life; we are normally, routinely taught that these one-dimensional, isolated causal relationships between things, very much like the springs, cogs & gears of some immense clockworks, somehow "explain" how the universe works. Life is not a collection of things blindly responding to other things--on the contrary, it is an infinitely complex /beautifully simple act, always in motion, always in flux.

This is not to say there isn't structure, that concepts like taxonomy & morphology are irrelevant. They are not; they are thought systems which help us to make sense of the writhing mass of energy which is life. The mad genius at the Curiosity Shop tells us that Goethe, one of the great lights of relational science, once "aptly described architecture as 'frozen music'". I can't think of a better description.

Now it's time to see how the music of nature works. First take just a moment to look these old drawings from Ernst Haeckel: Die Radiolarien (RHIZOPODA RADIARIA, Berlin, 1862) that depict The Five Solids as found in Nature. Now consider one example of how this understanding can be used to reorient ourselves, to bypass the empty dualisms of the scarcity paradigm and change our way of life, right now, without the dungheap of Congress or the pisspot of the Executive or the abbatoir of the Military.

The following is from an amazing group in Africa which is using the science of Goethe and Bucky Fuller to change the world. It's called n'Kozi Homes:

Here is an opportunity to play a part in the solution to the housing situation which if not resolved can only lead to further civil unrest, crime escalation and even more horrendous AIDS statistics

Concept: A world's first: delivery of Sustainable, Smart Modern African, Digital Eco-village (SMADEV)

- Modern deliverables for the 21st Century (Solar, photo-voltaic, biogas and waterless applications)

- Job creation and entrepreneurial opportunities

- Poverty Alleviation



PHILOSOPHY

Our philosophy is an evolving discourse between people and their environment, technology, structures, space, and the meaning thereof. If Architecture is the building of a cultural ideal, then the poetic integration of technology into real spaces, for real people is an appropriate goal for our times. We address each aspect as a critical exercise in which our understanding of architecture and urbanism may be extended, or revised altogether.

We cannot solve 20th century problems with 20th century thinking, we need new and innovative approaches that clearly distinguish between providing solutions or contributing to problems.

Almost all evidence points to the fact that any community with sub-standard housing is also a community with poor health, a high incidence of infectious diseases, high crime rate, low family stability and low moral standards. Under such conditions, attempts at improving health, education and social responsibility are destined to fail.

The reverse is also true insofar that an improvement in housing conditions leads to a spontaneous attempt at improving living conditions with quite a pronounced "knock-on" effect.

[Malthus, you see, was as wrong as Darwin (or, at least, those who presume to speak in his name.)]

We all realise that it is no longer feasible to waste precious fresh water for sewage and we need to develop without waterborne sewage by using waterless toilets that saves fresh water and costly infrastructure.

In a Nutshell

n'Kozi Homes is the brainchild of inventor, provisional patent holder and eco-preneur, Joseph Feigelson. n'Kozi therefore has propriety technology that provides an integrated solution for the number one demand product in Africa, namely energy efficient housing.

In short, the technology and system uses conventional SABS and Agrément approved building materials and solar innovations. This allows for the provision of comfortable and more than adequate shelter for a multitude of uses. The product provides more volume over a larger surface area using less material than any other system while using fewer materials and providing the strongest structure known to man.

A minimally trained crew of 5 people can produce a turnkey 33 square meter structure including a passive solar hot water system and solar electricity that give free warm water and free electricity for life within a few days.

To see the awesome flash demo, start here, under Concept. For further explanations of how we're going to sink the hydrocarbon economy, strip the elite of their transgenerational privilege, dismantle the Corporate/National Security State...stay tuned.

And thanks for your prodigious patience if you've made it this far.


(surrender, Kötke has another one out that is a bit more positive than Final Empire, but it's not available online yet, except in excerpts...which I have the links for somewhere around here.)

3/28/2007 03:09:00 PM  
Blogger #1 Sniffer said...

Jeff said (at end of last thread): “If I'm unpersuaded of demolition, how could I think Silverstein confessed to it?”

Maybe the problem is you never stated why you’re so “unpersuaded of demolition” that you’re willing to reject so much solid evidence for it.

3/28/2007 03:11:00 PM  
Blogger just_another_dick said...

"The aide said that guys like me were "in what we call the reality-based community," which he defined as people who "believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality." ... "That's not the way the world really works anymore," he continued. "We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."

As the 911 Truthers & the CD-ers, etc., "judiciously" study & bicker over the 911 "reality" of 2001, here in 2007 the "reality" of the Iraqi bloodbath chugs merrily along unhindered, unstudied & unnoticed.

"Well I came to see
& what I found was not alright with me.
Desperation, suffocation
& it's been the same thing all along.
Goodbye Babylon
Goodbye Babylon"


BAGHDAD - Shiite militants and police enraged by massive truck bombings in Tal Afar went on a revenge spree against Sunni residents in the northwestern town Wednesday, killing as many as 60 people, officials said.

The gunmen roamed Sunni neighborhoods in the city through the night, shooting at residents and homes, according to police and a local Sunni politician.

Witnesses said relatives of the Shiite victims in the truck bombings broke into the Sunni homes and killed the men inside or dragged them out and shot them in the streets.

Ali al-Talafari, a Sunni member of the local Turkomen Front Party, said the Iraqi army had arrested 18 policemen accused of being involved after they were identified by the Sunni families targeted. But he said the attackers included Shiite militiamen.

He said more than 60 Sunnis had been killed, but a senior hospital official in Tal Afar put the death toll at 45, with four wounded.

The hospital official, who spoke on condition of anonymity due to security concerns, said the victims were men between the ages of 15 and 60, and they were killed with a shot to the back of the head.

3/28/2007 03:15:00 PM  
Blogger #1 Sniffer said...

btw Jeff this was just posted by Steve Watson at infowars.net:

"A whistleblower that was on a team working for Silverstein Group in 2002 has made public an extensive set of detailed architectural drawings of the World Trade Center, that prove beyond any doubt that the official reports into the collapse of the towers misrepresented their Construction."

http://infowars.net/articles/march2007/280307blueprints.htm

3/28/2007 03:17:00 PM  
Blogger Bill Swisher said...

The Great White North

Nothing good ever came out of Canada, except for the occasional David Cronenberg film.

What a horrific, vomit inducing display of privileged northern hemispheric racist whiteness, all the way around. An Atrocity Exhibition by the most Atrocious Generation ever in the history of the planet and their vile, grotesque, genetically modified offspring.

Occupy Space-Consume-Shit.

May there be a curse on all your houses.

3/28/2007 08:20:00 PM  
Blogger Tsoldrin said...

Mark,

I was unable to find any non fictional references to a 'micronuke' in my searching. What I did find is the SADM and the Davey Crocket though there is plenty of (well founded) speculation about a slightly smaller Russian suitcase device - all are in the neighborhood of 50lbs, and produce a blast several times larger than the OKC bombing and they all have significant radiation fallout. There is some speculation that that is about the smallest nuke possible, though I have no idea if that is true.

On the other hand, you appear to be 100% correct about dirty bombs, and as far as I've read they really aren't lethal outside of their small conventional blast radius.

I should probably qualify my remarks with "I think" more, sorry if I came off as holier than thou. The video certainly could be a nuke for all I know, I'm just not convinced by that footage and think it could have easily been a conventional munition such as a MOAB or any of the stuff we've seen used on CNN footage durring the start of these conflicts.

On a side note... since I just did a pile of searches on nuclear arms, dirty bombs, suitcase bombs, salted bombs, etc. If I suddenly drop off the face of the earth, someone come break me out of gitmo please! ;)
---

IC,

I love your boundless enthusiasm. I heartilly hope, as a proponent of armed rebellion, that you have a contingency plan to forcefully stop any bulldozers from plowing down your geodesic houses, which I see as the inevitable result of your ideas starting to work and thereby putting TPTB into frightened - kill all opposition mode.
---

Sniffer,

I want you to check something out... a new way of looking at the world. It's not easy, but once you master it, it can be quite useful. The trick is, you approach information from a stance of cultivated naïveté - knowing nothing for sure. As each bit and byte of information comes your way, you evaluate it individually, with no pre-conceived road blocks. Beyond that, you step outside yourself and monitor your own reactions to the information and continually ask the question 'why?'. I think you might find the exercise enlightening.
---

Jeff,

I meant to mention this before... careful with the month off thing. I tried that myself... that was five months ago. Before you know it, you don't want the hassle anymore and just end up commenting (overcommenting?) on other people's blogs. ;)

BTW, are any of us in the book?

3/28/2007 08:21:00 PM  
Blogger Mark said...

Hi T.

Tsoldrin said:

"I was unable to find any non fictional references to a 'micronuke' in my searching. What I did find is the SADM and the Davey Crocket though there is plenty of (well founded) speculation about a slightly smaller Russian suitcase device - all are in the neighborhood of 50lbs, and produce a blast several times larger than the OKC bombing and they all have significant radiation fallout. There is some speculation that that is about the smallest nuke possible, though I have no idea if that is true."

Yes, first of all of course I'm not sure it is a micronuke in that blast in Baghdad either. Though more generally, I would argue that they do exist as a top secret project from the leaked data and information relayed by Fred Schneider--who I think was totally for real (though view those videos for yourself and decide); as well as some of the information leaked through Vialls (sp?); as well as leaked through Vanunu; as well as lots of declassified US documents--that your search obviously didn't turn up. Follow.

First, supposedly on the U.S. side of their development, 'micronukes' and 'military backpack nukes' were a co-creation by Israel and the U.S. at Dimona, the place that Mordichai Vanunu squealed about: the Israeli secret nuclear program (still officially secret, though estimated to make Israel the real unregulated nuclear power in the Middle East instead of the other fall guys that the U.S. and Israel are going after.

Nuclear weapons in the hands of any theocrats--Jewish or Islamic or Christian (or others we don't even know about--there's an interesting Druze contingent in high Israeli politics that few remark upon all out of proportion to their demographic numbers)--is dangerous.

Particularly if someone starts to justify their use because they are "cleaner" or "smaller" as the neocons are so excitedly developing they say two or three years ago.

They obviously don't mind using DU to poison their enemies for billions of years (hideous war crimes and the truest long lasting U.S. indelible graffiti of "remember me" on planet earth "forever"), so with 'cleaner nukes' they will certainly start using them on their own Oceania domestic populations if they are willing to use dirty DU on others.

Second, from a detailed report from the USAF on nuclear Israel, posted and annotated at Rense.com back in 2003 under the title "Israel's 'Use' Of Its Nuclear Weapons Against US,
From Lili, 2-26-3" paragraphs of 'special interest' from a long and detailed USAF report were posted. One in particular:

"For nuclear warfighting,
The "Samson Option" (last resort destruction).111
The most alarming of these is the nuclear warfighting. The Israelis have developed, by several accounts, low yield neutron bombs able to destroy troops with minimal damage to property.112 In 1990, during the Second Gulf War, an Israeli reserve major general recommended to America that it "use non-contaminating tactical nuclear weapons" against Iraq.113 Some have speculated that the Israelis will update their nuclear arsenal to "micronukes" and "tinynukes" which would be very useful to attack point targets and other tactical or barrier (mining) uses.114 These would be very useful for hardened deeply buried command and control facilities and for airfield destruction without exposing Israeli pilots to combat.115 Authors have made the point that Israeli professional military schools do not teach nuclear tactics and would not use them in the close quarters of Israel. Many Israeli officers have attended American military schools where they learned tactical use in crowded Europe.116"


...

That's the USAF.

Third, another article on micronukes shows that back in 1958 the U.S. had them from declassified information.

Linked from RigInt just a few threads ago that obviously few clicked on:

"Declassified August 1958: "Mere fact that the U. S. has developed atomic munitions suitable for use in demolition work." Declassified January 1967, "The fact that we are interested in and are continuing studies on a weapon for minimizing the emerging flux of neutrons and internal induced activity." Declassified March 1976, "The fact of weapon laboratory interest in Minimum Residual Radiation (MRR) devices. The fact of successful development of MRR devices."

The factual evidence indicates that our government is using and has used 3rd or possibly 4th generation hydrogen bombs domestically and internationally. The evidence for international usage is not quite as strong as the domestic usage, but when domestic usage is considered, the international usage seems inescapable."


The link was from "Smile", who said...

"Here is a page that discusses at length the 50 year history of the development and use by the U.S. military, and the British military, of tactical mini and micro nukes for the express purpose of building demolition.

Included on the page are links to de-classified U.S. DOE docs discussing the fact of these nukes developed expressly for demolition purposes.

So there it is. Like I said, make up your own mind.

3/12/2007 09:26:32 AM "


Though microwave or scalar technology to destroy things would be much cleaner by far even more.

They have a whole cornucopia of deadly things, and a black budget to create a buffet of research and testing outside Congressional/pseudo-public awareness.

3/28/2007 09:32:00 PM  
Blogger ericswan said...

Mark...do you remember a video that showed what looked like molten metal dripping down the exterior of one of the towers? What I'm thinking is that the beam weapon would be invisible and apparently leaving no "damage" on the cement aluminum exterior but would have the effect of liquifying steel in the interior. I'm trying to triangulate an entry point into the buildings with an exit that destroyed the engine blocks of automobiles 3 blocks away. I wonder if the microwave energy would conduct throughout the structure in a uniform manner or would the initial point fired upon, liquify first? If you haven't seen "John Hutchison effect" let me know and I will dig up some of his experiments.

3/28/2007 09:53:00 PM  
Blogger ericswan said...

I have a copy of Bearden's America At The Brink and he postulates that foreign suitcase nukes have been deployed throughout the U.S. since 1980. Sort of makes a mockery of Homeland Security. Bearden is former military and I have a hard time grasping the military mind. He figures there are agents similar to Manchurian candidates willing to sit back for 50 years if they have to before they are "fuzed". Go figure.

3/28/2007 10:01:00 PM  
Blogger Mark said...

Hi Eric:

"Mark...do you remember a video that showed what looked like molten metal dripping down the exterior of one of the towers? What I'm thinking is that the beam weapon would be invisible and apparently leaving no "damage" on the cement aluminum exterior but would have the effect of liquefying steel in the interior."

Yes, I have seen that video.

It is of yellow hot molten steel and white smoke pouring out of only the very floor where the 'plane thingy' hit in WTC2 (for intentional lack of definite word there since don't think anyone yet knows exactly what it was, outside something that looked uncannily like a U.S. military refueling tanker).

This was the WTC2 Fuji bank floor, a bit of information kept as a 'state secret' by NIST for years, by the way.

However, someone recently came forward to describe that floor, so I offer this as another (non mutuallye exclusive idea): that this particular issue would likely be thermate, though it certainly could be mixed with microwave issue.

Here's why.

The ex-Fuji Bank employee from the WTCs said from the summer before 9-11 (2001) this floor that happened to be hit in WTC2 was entirely empty of personnel. Instead, that floor was entirely filled with massive heavy "backup power batteries", that he saw installed over one night during Summer 2001.

However, since they never turned them on as a backup power supply, it is pretty certain that the whole floor was intentionally filled with thermate, given what was pouring out of it in the video. This may have been happening on other select floors and we only saw it because that particular floor had a punctured facing by the hit. Moreover, the film is only from the few seconds before the collapse. However, it may have been pouring out from the very moment of the hit on that floor, as well as hidden on other floors throughout the WTCs.

(Or, non mutually exclusively, it could have been thermate set off by microwave.)

[1]

We've all seen the thermate effect right?

Thermite Experiment
Spyke05 - 4 min - Apr 8, 2006
Some clips of Thermite from Brainiac science abuse
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrCWLpRc1yM

[2]

Here's the video discussed by you Eric, as well as discussed by Dr. Jones below:

Molten Metal WTC Thermite
KeizerSosa - 3 min - Apr 30, 2006 -
The video is pretty revealing. It appears the thermite/explosives in the building that they used caught on fire due to damage near the building corner, ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExrVgioIXvk

[Note the helicopter getting the word to evacuate, it's about to come down in seconds?]

[3]

And here's (mutually exclusive) talk about thermite/thermate PHYSICAL findings at WTCs, from Dr. Jones:

Alex Jones Interviews Steven Jones
45 min - Jun 17, 2006
... special mix of thermite and sulfur and some other chemicals, known as thermate,...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2842384983834100001

What is not in that Jones video is what came out recently: that that particular floor you see in WTC2 pouring off molten iron and white cottony smoke like thermite/thermate was coming from the Fuji bank building floor. This floor was filled with (never used) cases of what the staff were told were "backup batteries", that were very heavy.

The 'plane hits' exclusively just happened to hit on financial bank computer room floors in which to hit in WTC1 as well. Moreover, the same white puff isolated from the hit one can note in WTC1's hit as well out of the east face of the financial computer room of that floor, when the north face was the one that was hit (i.e., possibly thermate pre-planted in that financial computer room as well; see testimony of Richard Grove about the architecture and activities on these floors in WTC1 pre-911 and day of 911, and make up your own mind). The WTC1 hit rockets downward into the building though the white puff comes from the same floor distinct and unconnected from the rest of the north face explosion.

So on the one hand I think there was definitely thermate, particularly given the physical evidence discussed by Dr. Stephen Jones.

Video of it is only interesting mutual attestation evidence.

Here's more details about the about both near empty floors of the hits in WTC1 and WTC2:

WTC1 95th floor hit & WTC2 81st floor hit SURGICALLY TAKE OUT only banking computer rooms:

...When a former worker...came forward recently with crucial and verifiable information about what was really on the 81st floor of the South Tower (WTC 2), he broke up a logjam of unanswered questions about the source of molten metal seen falling from the tower before its collapse on 9/11 [and the financial corporate perpetrators of this massive terrorist crime, in both buildings]....Photographic evidence [and of course the thermate physical traces found afterward] strongly suggests that the secure computer rooms in both towers contained forms of Thermite [non-exclusively there], which had been pre-placed to [doubly sure] destroy evidence and facilitate the collapse....

[and perhaps weaken particularly crucial floors or take it down in sections, and get it 'loose' in chunks, more precariously dependent upon ONLY the box columns--then you just blow out the box columns with some micronuke and perhaps massively microwave it as it goes down as well, etc.]

--- After examining the photographic and physical evidence, Professor Steven E. Jones of Brigham Young University has concluded that the yellow and white glowing metal pouring from the east corner of the 81st floor of the South Tower was, most likely, molten iron created by a Thermite reaction....molten iron seen falling from the South Tower's eastern corner before it collapsed must have weighed many tons. One cubic meter of iron weighs about 8.5 tons and it certainly looks like several cubic meters poured from the 81st floor shortly before it collapsed.

1.

WTC1, first hit, 95th floor: a banking computer room, Marsh & McLennan

On the 95th floor of WTC 1, Marsh & McLennan had a "large walled data center," a secure computer room along the north and east sides of the tower. And that's exactly where the plane hit--the north wall of the 95th floor.

The plane struck the North Tower right in the middle of the north face. The nose of the plane [thing] struck the 130th perimeter column at the 96th floor slab and something, perhaps the nose landing gear, carried on right through the middle of the building and severed three columns on the south side of the tower.

An image caught on video immediately after the plane struck the tower shows a huge fireball engulfing the north face of the building where the plane hit. But from the east side of the tower a suspicious huge white dust cloud is emerging that looks like an exploding bale of cotton

It is pure white and shows no signs of burning jet fuel. This white dust is emerging from the east wall of the tower, from the level and side occupied by the [same] computer room.


If Thermate bombs had been pre-placed in the [WTC1] 95th floor computer room, who put them there? Certainly Marsh & McLennan must know or have records of who had access to that room and what was in it.

2.

WTC2, second hit, 81st floor: a banking computer room, Fuji Bank

Fuji Bank was the tenant of floors 79-82, yet for some reason the ***NIST researchers were unable or unwilling to provide any description of the contents of these crucial floors***--four years after 9/11.

A former Japanese bank employee recently came forward and explained that the 81st floor was an entire floor of [cases that looked like] server-size computer batteries:

Fuji Bank had reinforced the 81st floor, he said, so the floor could support more weight. The entire floor was then filled with server-size Uninterrupted Power Supply (UPS) batteries. [sic]

These units were bolted to a raised floor about 3 feet above the reinforced 81st floor. "The whole floor was batteries," he said, "huge battery-looking things." They were "all black" and "solid, very heavy" things that had been brought in during the night.

They had been put in place [only] during the summer prior to 9/11, he said. [Summer 2000 or Summer 2001?]

But were they really batteries or were they Thermate?

"It's weird," he said. "They were never turned on."


---

It does seem that that entire floor of the hit at least in WTC2 was indeed filled with thermate, not exclusive to what was discussed above. (That's from the video of WTC2 pouring liquid metal and white cottony smoke; and the Fuji bank guy's discussion of the never used "batteries" only brought in that summer before 9-11.)

And it does seem that there was thermate in the other reinforced computer room of WTC1 for Marsh and McClellan (from the video photographic evidence as well the financial hijinks noted int he discussions of Richard Grove, ex- worker at Marsh and McClellan.)

See Jeff, how easy it is to research the financial side of things simultaneous to the physical evidence?

Eric continues:

"I'm trying to triangulate an entry point into the buildings with an exit that destroyed the engine blocks of automobiles 3 blocks away. I wonder if the microwave energy would conduct throughout the structure in a uniform manner or would the initial point fired upon, liquefy first?

Are you saying that it had to come in on the 'plane' hits? If so, I'd assume different: that if they depended on a undamaged piece of microwave ray technology coming in on a plane that had to batter its way through steel first to work well physically, they were not very smart.

My assumption of the origin of any microwave use (if any), would be either

[1] from some sort of triangulation scalar tech carrier wave for it, so they could pinpoint exactly when to 'dump' it from the carrier to a particular spot for more triangulation and for exact timing; the origin of it may be coming from anywhere in other words I would assume, instead of it being required to be loaded on the technology that hit the WTC1 or WTC2.

[2] it could have been coming from the Woolworth Building, or any other building facing the WTCs; there are however police channel reports that peoople were "firing things from the top of the Woolworth Building at the WTCs" before they came down. And following that money trail of the Woolworth building gets you very close to the Bush family operatives.

"If you haven't seen "John Hutchison effect" let me know and I will dig up some of his experiments."

Yes, I've seen that. Fascinating how some forms of electromagnetism can suddenly invert gravity, eh, or locally annul it in a particular place? There's you a route toward a grand unified theory.

In summary, from my unofficial investigations, keeping a lot of unrequired mutual exclusivity in mind and the evidence that they knew that they had failed before in taking them down in 1993 with only one technology, I think that the WTCs demolitions were "project overkill"--loading in everything to overkill, as well as the all important thing of destroying all witnesses (most people were basically turned into mulch or evaporated). So here's another list:

Non-Exclusive List of Demolition Technologies Bundled into WTCs on 9-11, based on lots of different evidence:

1. rigged security services

2. thermate placed in the buildings, at particular crucial joints, perhaps during one of the strange total power downs.

3. thermate placed on particular floors to destroy financial evidence completely, as well as potentially 'to chunk' the WTCs into more cubic pieces resting on box columns only before it came down; chunks seem to be around 40 to 50 floors thick: another potential 'chunk' section might be 50 floors down from the 80s, in the strange activities on another completely empty floor; Rodriguez notes he heard mysterious activities and heavy metal dragging very loudly on one empty and untenanted floor, in the 30s. He knew that there was no one allowed on that floor and no tenants either and no walls or anyone moving in either--yet he testifies to a huge amount of activity on only one day in the months before 9-11 on that floor. Elevators didn't even stop on that floor. It scared him. When he heard it was silent the next day, he opened the door. The floor was as empty as he remembered it, which spooked him out even more since a lot of heavy metal dragging activity had occurred there they day before and it was just as empty as it was when he first saw it--and no one knew who it could have been in the WTCs on that floor. ON 9-11, interestingly, he additionally heard noises he said on the fateful day coming from that 'empty' floor though didn't open the doors that day as it scared him even more given what was occurring all throughout the WTCs as he was racing to unlock doors to let people out of the building down the stairwells.

4. preparatory basement explosions for some rationale (who knows why)--before the hits even occurred.

5. then, given the seismographic evidence of 2.3 and 2.4 earthquake characteristic only to a nuclear explosion says seismologists, these little nuclear blasts occur against the bedrock at the box columns BEFORE the towers start to freefall; these are seeming double micronuke basement demolitions to take out the base of each tower's box columns, after the external bolted steel was thermated and loose throughout the towers; then....

6. C4 and other high concussion stuff planted throughout the floors consecutively blows out each floor as it comes down already in freefall, pulverizing the concrete;

7. microwave dissipation of steel, working to destroy the box columns and a whole lot else as it comes down as well as other steel--this one is the curious thing, though it seems to have been bundled in there somewhere from the melted cars evidence and elsewhere, as well as seemingly missing steel, as well as paper surviving and aluminum surviving without steel surviving; Though obviously, I don't know enough about top secret projects, sorry :-)

Triangulation of Hypothesized Microwave Rays

I would suggest attempting to triangulate your microwave ray from the Woolworth building and seeing if that would carry over to FDR Drive. Actually the Woolworth Building faces the WTC quad area a few blocks away and any firing range across from it is West Side Highway instead of FDR Drive (though it's the same road though with a different name of FDR Drive on the east, behind the Woolworth building.

If there were cars damaged off in this West Side Highway area as well as FDR drive, then you might have grounds for multiple triangulation of different rays from different buildings.

A good map would be to plot exactly where these melted cars were found, if possible. That would reveal more information.

I don't find enough evidence yet to know exactly where microwaves were used from-though they seemingly were used in some capacity given the melted car steel engine blocks and car window braces, evaporated handles on the doors of all things, blocks away, etc.).

3/29/2007 12:54:00 AM  
Blogger surrender said...

Interesting comments regarding 9/11 distracing us from what is going on in Iraq.

And since there is a lengthy discussion about bombs, here goes...

by Mike Davis and Tom Engelhardt
TomDispatch
Antiwar.comAntiwar.com

"The carnage in Iraq continues, but what did anyone expect? Roadside bombs (IEDs) take their deadly almost daily toll on U.S. troops in and around Baghdad (and adjoining provinces). Seventy-five Americans have already died in March, at least 50 of them from roadside bombs. Of course, that's a drop in the bucket, when it comes to Iraqi casualties. The now widely discussed Lancet study of Iraqi "excess deaths" between the invasion of March 2003 and June 2006 offered an estimated figure of 655,000. Its careful, door-to-door methodology was vehemently rejected by both George Bush (not "a credible report") and Tony Blair. According to the British Broadcasting Corporation, however, recently obtained British government documents indicate that the study's methodology was indeed sound.

None of this is likely to fully penetrate the mainstream in the U.S. During the week of the fourth anniversary of the invasion of Iraq, both NBC and ABC in their primetime news shows typically continued to cite the figure of 60,000 for Iraqi deaths – despite the fact that the UN Assistance Mission for Iraq calculated 34,452 Iraqi deaths for 2006 alone and this is known to be an honest undercount, because some bodies never make it to morgues or hospitals and, in the embattled no-go zones of the Sunni insurgency, official reporting of deaths is weak at best.

With the president's surge plan well underway and "encouraging signs" of progress in Baghdad already being hailed – how long can we be encouraged on the road to hell? – Iraq is ever more a charnel house, a killing ground. The latest real surge, as Mike Davis tells us below, is in car and truck bombs driven by Sunni jihadis. Last April, Davis did a unique two-part series for this site, "The Poor Man's Air Force" and "Car Bombs With Wings," which surely represented the first history of the car bomb ever attempted. The remarkable author of Planet of Slums has now turned those two pieces into a full-scale, history of this devastating weapon of our time in a new book, Buda's Wagon: A Brief History of the Car Bomb."


The WEAPON NO ONE CAN STOP
by Mike Davis

"Despite heroic reassurances from both the White House and the Pentagon that the six-week-old U.S. escalation in Baghdad and al-Anbar province is proceeding on course, suicide car-bombers continue to devastate Shi'ite and Sunni neighborhoods, often under the noses of reinforced American patrols and checkpoints. Indeed, February was a record month for car bombings, with at least 44 deadly explosions in Baghdad alone, and March promises to duplicate the carnage.

Car bombs, moreover, continue to evolve in horror and lethality. In January and March, the first chemical "dirty bomb" explosions took place using chlorine gas. The sectarian guerrillas who claim affiliation with "al-Qaeda in Mesopotamia" are now striking savagely, and seemingly at will, against dissident Sunni tribes in al-Anbar province as well as Shi'ite areas of Baghdad and Shi'ite pilgrims on the highways to the south of the capital. With each massacre, the bombers refute Bush administration claims that the U.S. military can "take back and secure" Baghdad block-by-block or establish its own patrols and new, fortified mini-bases as a realistic substitute for local self-defense militias.

On Feb. 23, for instance, shortly after the beginning of the "Surge," a suicide truck-bomber killed 36 Sunnis in Habbaniya, west of Baghdad, after an imam at a local mosque had denounced al-Qaeda. Ten days later, a kamikaze driver plowed his truck bomb into Baghdad's famed literary bazaar, the crowded corridor of bookstores and coffee houses along Mutanabi Street, incinerating at least 30 people and, perhaps, the last hopes of an Iraqi intellectual renaissance.
On March 10, another suicide bomber massacred 20 people in Sadr City, just a few hundred yards away from one of the new U.S. bases. The next day, a bomber rammed his car into flatbed truck full of Shi'ite pilgrims, killing more than 30. A week later, horror exceeded itself when a car bomber evidently used two little children as a decoy to get through a military checkpoint, then exploded the car with the kids still in the back seat.

In a demonstration of a tactic that has proven especially deadly over the past year, a car-bomb attack on March 23 was coordinated with an assailant in a suicide vest and almost killed Deputy Prime Minister Salam al-Zubaie, whose tribal alliance, the Anbar Salvation Council, has accepted funding from the Americans and been denounced by the jihadis.
When it comes to the development of suicide vehicles, however, the most alarming innovation has, without doubt, been the debut in January of truck bombs carrying chlorine gas tanks rigged with explosives. Of course, "dirty bombs," usually of the nuclear variety, have been a longtime obsession of anti-terrorism experts but the sinister glamour of radioactive devices has tended to overshadow the far greater likelihood that bomb-makers would initially be attracted to the cheapness and ease of combining explosives with any number of ordinary industrial caustics and toxins.

As if to emphasize that poison-gas explosions were now part of their standard arsenal, sectarian bombers – identified, as usual, by the American military as members of "al-Qaeda in Mesopotamia" – unleashed three successive chlorine suicide-bomb attacks on March 16 against Sunni towns outside of Fallujah. The two largest attacks involved dump trucks loaded with 200-gallon chlorine tanks. Aside from the dozens wounded or killed by the direct explosions, at least another 350 people were stricken by the yellow-green clouds of chlorine.

The chlorine clouds and the truck bombs have deflected U.S. troops into a massive, desperate hunt for the "makeshift car-bomb factories" that Maj. Gen. William Caldwell, chief spokesman for the Surge, claims proliferate in the gritty suburbs and industrial estates that ring Baghdad.

The image of a clandestine car-bomb industry, by the way, is rich with irony. Baghdad's factory belt contains hundreds of state-owned and private factories that once manufactured canned food, tiles, baby clothes, transit buses, fertilizers, commercial glass, and the like. Since the American invasion, however, the plants are idle, if not derelict, and their once integrated Sunni-Shi'ite workforces are bunkered down, jobless, in increasingly sectarian neighborhoods. Unemployment in greater Baghdad is variously estimated in the 40-60 percent range.


Indeed, the car bomb – even more than the roadside bombs (IEDs) that are filling the Humvee junkyards – has proven globally to be an almost invincible weapon of the ill-armed and under funded."


CHEERS1!!!

3/29/2007 01:32:00 AM  
Blogger Mark said...

About 11 minutes in, here's some pictures of that molten metal that was found--you know that molten metal that suddently all sorts of official lies are being promulgated about that it "wasn't found" ( because, well, lies begat lies in treason.)

This is the Stephen Jones "official" presentation to the audience at the 9-11 truth convention organized by Alex Jones.

It's very picture, video, and detail heavy for his (mutually exclusive) discussion of WTC thermite evidence.

Prof. Steven E. Jones about thermite melting WTC-steel
35 min 55 sec - Jul 29, 2006

The samples that they found that were tested show that it's not melted structural steel.

It's missing a lot of chemicals for that claim.

The WTC2 block of melted steel that he tested was found to be a basic thermite recipe

-- with sulfur and

-- (likely from this source) potassium permanganate and

-- polytetrafluroethlyene (my spelling I'm sure is off)
found as added superchargers of the recipe.

--- 1-3-diphenylpropane (characteristic of binding gels used in thermite)



Since you can make this from scratch, it can avoid all tracer chemicals federally required in high power explosives which always can link back to where it was purchased and who had it. Except for thermites.

And at 15 minutes in, he discusses threats from outside his university--somehow linked with promises of Homeland Security bribes ("grants") to shut him up and change his research.

Later of course more interesting people came out of the woodwork against him. Currently I think he is suspended from teaching though not fired.

Title: Dr. Stephen Jones SET UP and libelled by fifth columnist neocon Zionists, interesting...
Author: Christopher Bollyn
Date: 2006.09.21 09:25
Description: I think Jones should sue these high powered Zionists for libel, defamation of character, and any future back pay! THE RADIO TRAP: On September 5, Doug Fabrizio, producer of RadioWest on Univ. of Utah's public radio invited Jones on a one-hour program to discuss 9/11 thermate research. However, the trap was before Jones could discuss thermate found, Fabrizio attempted to steer aggressively toward quizzing Jones the "Neo-Conservative motivation"....Because Jones is a physicist not engaged in political background of "false flag" terrorism attacks, he reluctantly responded by citing Tarpley's analysis that Wolfowitz and Perle, linked to the "international banking cartel," named by Tarpley, as possible suspects. Jones was careful to say that these were not his ideas, but Tarpley's.....After 'interviewing' Jones in this manner for a brief 20 minutes [completely ignoring his evidence], Fabrizio removed Jones and strangely turned the REMAINDER OF THE HOUR to an arranged set up with three (count them) three high powered U.S. Zionists: two Jewish professors, a Robert Goldberg (University of Utah), Gary Fine (Northwestern), and uncoincidentally the first caller accepted was William Tumpowsky, chairman of the Jewish Community Relations Council and board member of the local Israeli-fund raising organization, the United Jewish Federation. (WTC7's terrorist, Silverstein, is a big contributer to funds such as these). These three animatedly libeled the absent Jones as "anti-semetic", and completely left unmentioned the evidence of thermate Jones found in the WTCs...The most significant evidence brought forth by Jones' research was not even discussed. Within two days, the authorities at BYU apparently caved to organized Jewish pressure and put Jones on paid leave."


The author of that article, Christopher Bollyn, reports being beaten up by Homeland Security at his house.

Bollyn had made many useful evidence heavy articles on 9-11.

Is 9-11 a distraction? Or are Bush's wars a distraction from 9-11 since all the war crimes and police state arrangements of Bush are entirely predicated on a flimsy false story of 9-11.

3/29/2007 02:06:00 AM  
Blogger ericswan said...

Surrender..We lost this battle but not the war.

Mark...The two towers had been condemned. No. 7 had all the evidence in the basement. The "how did they do it?" forensic evidence has been carefully disposed.

Qui bono?

The President gets his police state and the vp gets his war. All hail Halliburton.

3/29/2007 05:34:00 AM  
Blogger Sounder said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

3/29/2007 07:15:00 AM  
Blogger Sounder said...

In the western intellectual tradition, it’s developers decided to rely on repeatable empirical observations, rather than revealed truth from holy books. Take Spinoza for instance, this family had been successively driven out of Spain and then Portugal, losing no doubt many members along the way. Naturally Spinoza did not think of Theocratic States as the best manner for the running of human affairs. In the quiet of his rented room he shaped ideas that have had great impact on the development of the modern secular governments. He claimed the right of freedom of opinion for philosophers. Where before everybody had to speak in code and allegory, for fear of reprisals. The resultant expansion of centers of authority is the beginning of that process where the authority of the God-proxy sovereign dissolves into individuals. Still now this authority is bottled up in the modern mostly materialistic dualistic scientific model.

The ideal of the scientific model is to create truth-value that is accessible by and useful to the whole community. The process adopted however focuses on objects rather than subjects and so restricts the beginnings of causality to a sort of billiard ball universe. As we probe the sources of the inertial forces we may need to integrate ideas that latch on to the causal chain at an earlier point. If done, then even more people will access ‘authority’. (And acknowledging the Source will become self-evident if not moot) This will happen when science can integrate concepts that describe or deal with the manner by which the pre-manifest becomes manifest. So if the ‘masters’ have their shit together then they are not proving something through science, rather they create new correspondences between categories that effectively shapes new scientific concepts.

I submit to God alone

Peace

3/29/2007 07:19:00 AM  
Blogger Sounder said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

3/29/2007 08:56:00 AM  
Blogger Sounder said...

What I meant to say;

Seeing disparity between the ideals and the expressions of a countries government is not enough reason to condemn the 'country' itself. America and its government are two distinct categories and their interests are different also. American's interests are different than American (corporate) interests. The more we learn to demand and express those interests the less power corporate interests will be able to impose on us.

3/29/2007 08:57:00 AM  
Blogger ericswan said...

Pre-manifestation is an interesting term but it should apply across the board. Is Jesus well represented in the Bible? The money changers may have been alerted to the threat which Jesus represented and their efforts doubled by His cruxifiction. When one considers that the scripture was codified and printed by TPTB, one should give pause.

Book burning and the disappeared should be a clue not to trust the survivors of either occurance. The internet "disappeared" may be included in that genre.

Put another way, Moses brought down the Ten Commandments. The commandments were rejected by the "Chosen People" whereupon Moses busted them in favour of 100's of laws in the form we now find in Deut.

Jesus brought down one law "Love your neighbour" but this was not interpreted to include all of God's creatures large and small.

When Jesus talked about the living bread, he was talking about sprouted grains to make "essene" bread, not that his body was the living bread. TPTB moved wine into the sacrament as Jesus' "blood". Alcohol would not be an expression of the blood of Jesus. Alcohol is manmade and anything that man has made has produced less than what God has made.

The thin edge of the wedge produced the global society that we see today. There was a news piece on Canadian TV earlier this week about a 16 year old fetal alcohol syndrome native that stole cars and ran down pedestrians. He was caught and released and a couple of weeks later out and doing the same thing.

What is the genetic effect of alcohol on our children? I don't think it's a good thing. Is it any wonder that so many are so disconnected?

I marvel at the proliferation of outlets for alcohol in my community. The Christian church has been instrumental in creating the miiasma we find ourselves here today. When Christians first came to this continent they brought pestilence, avarice and firewater. We deserve to be subsumed for our crimes against humanity.

3/29/2007 10:44:00 AM  
Blogger surrender said...

The primary human condition is one of overwhelming paranoid self-consciousness. Mankind so completely mistrusts Itself, that it sees self-domination as the only means of safety. Thus we have all the opposing factions on the planet contending for the position of Supremacy, believing that the victor will be in the Right. Dead right!

Anyone who believes that an adversary approach to Human Salvation promises anything other than Mankind’s annihilation is, to say the least, optimistic. We are full of Hope generated by Unconsciousness. On our own, we will not and cannot save ourselves from destruction. Trapped in our own limited philosophical explanations we will mistrust ourselves into a mass planetary grave. Mother Earth, supremely conscious as She is, will strike down whatever stands in the way of Her purpose: to continually bring forth Life. She will destroy Mankind before we can destroy Her. The threat to the Conscious Earth is real and perceived. She can rise with All Her Might and stamp out the offenders of Her Holy Sanctity. She’s done it before.

To a few brave souls, this possibility is slowly dawning upon us.

The Human condition is paradoxical: purposefully and consciously. Creature comfort is available to many, but is unenjoyable because of the degree to which human misery is communicated around the world.

We are no longer able to hide from our failure. Yet like a broken machine we continue along the same path, unwilling to admit defeat. Unwilling to admit that Judaism, Christianity, Democracy, Buddhism, Enlightenment, end even common sense have failed: we have all failed like our parents and their parents back to Adam and beyond.

When we finally admit this defeat of ourselves by ourselves, the new beginning will be here.

Now some good news. You are designed by God Almighty to perform perfectly. You cannot fail. You will, in fact, trust God enough to bring about the appropriate changes in the way you, and therefore everyone else lives life.

All that is required is the Humility to Surrender, and the willingness to choose beyond the dictates of your mind. Human life on Earth will be transformed and Paradise will be the condition of Life on Earth. You will either help bring this about or you will not. That is your conscious choice, regardless of your belief. That which is necessary for Mankind’s Salvation will occur just as it always has.

In the meantime, Smile, the Eye of God is upon you………..

3/29/2007 02:02:00 PM  
Blogger Shrubageddon said...

In the meantime, Smile, the Eye of God is upon you………..

A very tasteful way of calling God a Pornographer.

Well done.

3/29/2007 03:17:00 PM  
Blogger surrender said...

Shrub,

It would appear that Mankind is unwilling to place either trust or faith in a Plan offered by a Creator who carries out His work with such gusto and with so little regard for the feelings of His creatures or their comforts.

Surely God is a pornographer among other things.

The human family, using for a moment Adam is our original father, then in God's eyes we are a product of incest,and just to prove the point that incestuous relations produce insane or demented offspring, well..here we are!!

Cheers!!!

3/29/2007 04:33:00 PM  
Blogger Shrubageddon said...

Surrender,

I agree...if there is a God, it is a Pornographer with a wicked sense of humor...and we are mere unwitting, or witting, actors in its Carnal Comedy.

3/29/2007 05:05:00 PM  
Blogger surrender said...

If you cannot love yourself enough to make a difference; if you cannot love your God enough to make a difference; please look around in the next few days, or months, and see if this Great Mother of Us All isn't beautiful enough to deserve your complete love and gratitude: for if you do not, we will all surely perish from the Earth.

3/29/2007 05:40:00 PM  
Blogger Sounder said...

Surrender, you ARE the man, you had me in stitches, and I only laugh when I see (what I think of as) Truth.

Well OK, sometimes ignorance makes me laugh too.

Have you read anything on my blogspot?

3/29/2007 06:51:00 PM  
Blogger Sounder said...

And ericswan, thanks.

I also think of holy books as codes within codes. Substance creates the original forms that are then twisted towards selfish ends. A fresh search for primal Substance may provide opportunity to create new forms.

3/29/2007 07:48:00 PM  
Blogger djbk said...

Jeff, feel like i am losing a good friend, so appreciated every post, even the metaphysical ones in which i was just trying to bear with you, and find the connections,,. all other posts simply transformed my thinkin,not altered it, but definitely deepened and sharpened it, you are a great writer, but a teacher first-- thanks so much, you will be missed

3/29/2007 08:39:00 PM  
Blogger brownzeroed said...

HEY JEFF,
Sorry to bother you but it looks like I've been scrubbed from the Message Board. I don't think I did anything offensive. Do you know hwat happened? Should I be paranoid? :-)

3/29/2007 08:58:00 PM  
Blogger heath said...

Silverfox, Bee's Knees, Sniffer, et al, please don't forget to come back when Jeff resumes his deluded endorsements next month.

Jeff's pronouncements have entered dangerous territory. He is reaching many people with his anything-but-considered approach. Nobody argues against the evidence that he espouses, but he absolutely refuses to concede, seemingly at any cost, that CD speculation can be honestly broached and successfully (in all senses of the word) bring around normal folks to the notion that maybe something is afoot with regards to 9/11.

His arguments could honestly be construed as attempting to suck the wind out of the sails of the 9/11-questions movement.

Its one thing to warn of potential danger of subscribing to one theory too strongly, its another thing to continually question the motivation of people who believe in the immense power of the videos of explosions and collapses to crack the shell of people's minds.

As I've said before, I've used the collapses to convince people to question 9/11. They understand the complexity of nine-eleven, and that the collapses don't represent the whole conspiracy. They also understand that the videos prove nothing, even if they do undeniably provoke questions.

Jeff would have us all believe that no real success can be had entertaining CD. I am here to say that Jeff is wrong!

And as long as Jeff refuses to acknowledge these little successes are happening everywhere, then I have to say that I do not trust where his arguments stem from.

3/29/2007 09:45:00 PM  
Blogger Shrubageddon said...

we will all surely perish from the Earth.

I agree with this part of your statement, and the sentiment of the rest....just not the particulars ( meaning the whole God part).

How about "we will end up self-extincting our species," instead?

I'm glad you are sharing in my cynicism, Sounder. The annihilation of our species, and the majority of, if not all, living organisms on this planet can make for a great belly laugh. Who says the truth hurts? Not me.....the truth will set you free...to laugh your ass off as Mankind frenetically builds that Ark for its fateful voyage to the Abyss.

3/29/2007 10:01:00 PM  
Blogger heath said...

Hey Jeff,

Why wouldn't MSNBC play the WTC7 collapse video when they had Dr. Steven Jones on to discuss, despite it being furnished and requested by Dr. Jones? As I recall, the anchors opted rather for incredulously attacking Dr. Jones position, minus any actual rebutting evidence. Another coincidence I presume?

Dr. Jones makes sound arguments, and he probably would have turned on 10,000 more minds that night if MSNBC had not acted so 'afraid' as you.

3/29/2007 10:16:00 PM  
Blogger #1 Sniffer said...

heath said: “Jeff would have us all believe that no real success can be had entertaining CD. I am here to say that Jeff is wrong! And as long as Jeff refuses to acknowledge these little successes are happening everywhere, then I have to say that I do not trust where his arguments stem from.”

Very well said Mr. Heath. When someone shows a pattern of refusing to acknowledge obvious things on a certain topic, everyone gets a little suspicious after a while.

I think that you, I, and a few others talked similarly to try to hold Jeff accountable for flowery but factually unsupportable (thus hollow) prose that if you want to be honest about it can only help the real evildoers behind 911.

We at least were thus only trying to be helpful real friends to Jeff by pointing out an error he was falling into that was making him look bad but that could be corrected, but our help is/was never appreciated by the ones making or defending it. What do we get? Informed responses? No, just lashing-out at us or changing the subject, or writing huge posts (sometimes even copying entire off-site articles on unrelated subjects) to bury yours. When you see those, that is a good sign there’s some good truth up above on the thread.

The hidden agenda often I think is to try to look good with flowery metaphysical prose (at least here) then in the end promoting a false 911 message, hoping many “sheeple” will be influenced subliminally by that. It's to plant a few little seeds of doubt.

If it succeeds (i.e., if it is not successfully countered or exposed for what it is), they don’t care if you see points they missed and bring it up to them, your comment (like your comment now) is ignored or buried and their job is done. At least that is the model that I suspect to be at play.

They only care if you bring it up and that makes them look bad in front of others, then they just see you as a nuisance to be ignored, ridiculed or drowned out, pretend offense at (when they speak much more aggressively which is often it’s ok), or who knows, maybe eventually censored. Who was right was irrelevant to them. That’s a long-handed way to say “disinfo” which I’ve recently gone on record to say IMHO it was that 100%.

heath said: “His arguments could honestly be construed as attempting to suck the wind out of the sails of the 9/11-questions movement.” Exactly!

Maybe he’s more comfortable writing fiction? If he can’t get basic facts straight maybe that would be a productive change in strategy. Or maybe he already does, on 911, UFO’s, ghosts, demons, and all? His play on words on old truth, new truth, classic truth, and now, awful truth? (I take all that as a way of mocking the concept of truth).

Your final sentence captures a key point, which I’ll restate in my own way:

At least for many it gets hard to not suspect his other stuff is not all smoke and mirrors too when they figure out his 911 stuff is.

3/29/2007 11:44:00 PM  
Blogger heath said...

Rosie's rants about 9/11 rolled from her blog onto The View on Thursday (3/29). Exactly two weeks since her initial blog post about WTC7 (3/15).

The segment can be viewed HERE (shortly before the last minute is where the conversation turns to 9/11 and WTC7, but its fun to hear the audience dog bush throughout the clip)

Rosie is sharper on her blog, but she represented 9/11-questions fairly if not briefly in the segment. Rosie and her counterpart both agree to bring on an academic in the future to analyze WTC7. Could be good.

AAAARRGGHH!!! I can't believe I'm hooked on reading Rosie's blog (www.rosie.com), and catching clips of The View. Somebody shoot me!

3/30/2007 04:30:00 AM  
Blogger Tsoldrin said...

Sometimes I think it's a miracle that certain people are able to work this series of tubes we like to call the internet.

Disinformation. The mere act of employing someone to spread disinformation is in itself an admission of guilt to that person. Do you really think they are so loose with such damning information?

Yeah, that makes sense. Let's just give some Canadian journalist the goods on us, and cross our fingers and hope he doesn't run with that as a story ... which incidentally would be the story of the century.

Dimwits.

Theorists make a good point in that this conspiracy need not involve huge numbers of people, just a handfull in key positions, but then they turn around and start including everyone and their dog in the coverup - which makes all those folks conspirators after the fact - in an ever expanding circle of people numbering in the thousands.

These same logic-free theorists just love tossing around the term 'sheeple' with derision. Now that is what I call ironicle.

3/30/2007 04:40:00 AM  
Blogger Shrubageddon said...

I'm going to give you good folks some cud to chew on besides your own...even though the cud I am providing is your own...in a philosophical sense. It was posted by muddy elephant on Sam Hill's Blog. Interesting take....I like it...any thoughts are welcome.....not surprisingly, Sam Hill never addressed Muddy's comments on his blog...the shame of it all....


First of all, what are the known facts?

A) That we as a species have a basic imperative to survive.

B) From this we have groups/individuals within the species who think they know how best to survive.

C) Inevitably a group or an individual is willing to kill or forcibly control other groups/individuals over fundamental disagreements on how best to survive.

D) The resulting trauma from the actualisation of point C creates not just fundamental but intractable disagreement between groups/individuals.

E) It seems that as long as there is disagreement on how best to survive groups/individuals become trapped in a circular pattern from B to C to D.

These are the known facts.

Therefore we are all trapped. Mostly by point C.

There is nothing morally wrong with point C. Killing and controlling are necessary survival tools up to a point.

I'd like to think we've reached that point. But we haven't. We are probably not anywhere remotely close to reaching it.

So, like it or not (and I fucking hate it) we are just going to have to be patient and suffer fools gladly. We can most likely expect many many lifetimes and more of abject suffering and cruelty of the type we see today. It may even get worse.

Until point C actually stops being useful to groups/individuals we are still trapped. Unfortunately, point C remains quite useful for the simple fact that it is being used.

F) Inevitably, groups/individuals will see that point C is actually the negation of point A.

And this is where we all stand it seems. On the brink of the negation of point A.

So the solution is the intuitive assertion point F. There is no forcing or ethical persuasion or doctrines of faith or revelation of truth or anything at all that is necessary to bring this about. People will either see this point for themselves or they won't.

3/30/2007 11:30:00 AM  
Blogger surrender said...

Shrub,

Regarding: point C.

Are YOU willing to kill to survive?

You really do not think we have another choice???

At the risk of drawing out your beautifully expressed cynicism, could we love each other and Mother Earth enough to guarantee our survival????

I live in a country where abject poverty is all around me. I have lived in circumstances with no running water, or electricity and eaten only what was available from the crops growing in the area. 90% of the people live in the rural areas and have no knowledge or understanding of what is going on in the world outside of their daily lives.

The willingness to cooperate, share and take care of each other is always present and I have been moved many times by the joy and love demonstrated by the peasants who struggle to survive with what they have. They do not steal from each other or kill each other to survive. The only resources most people have are a machete and a small plot of land which they try to subsist on. I have witnessed what the human spirit is capable of when confronted with impossible circumstances that most of us could not even comprehend.

The experience of living here has influenced my point of view about life and death, and.....
yes, also, the Great Pornographer.

My intention has been only to share what may or may not contribute to how we choose to BE about the events and circumstances that seem to be leading to our destruction. And to remind us of our ability to Create out of the abyss of the chaos we are immersed in as we enter The Golden Age.

Cheers!!!!

3/30/2007 01:24:00 PM  
Blogger Shrubageddon said...

And how about this for some comedy relief.....I wish I could link the accompanying video for this skit by The State, but it is no where to found after an exhaustive search....so the script will have to do.

It speaks a great deal about the mindset of The Establishment....trying to il-fit circles into squares and not seeing the appropriate fit when it's right in front of its face. It starkly highlights the madness of it all in such a way that makes you piss yourself. Enjoy...I wish I had the video...it does it so much more justice.

Blueberry Johnson

Speaker Phone: Gina, Bruce, Blueberry Johnson's here to pitch you the new children's show.

Gina (Kerri): Terrific, Evan, send him in!

Bruce (Joe): This is that television producer you were telling me about, right?

Gina: Yes. He's fantastic.

Bruce: Great.

Blueberry Johnson (Mike S): Hi Gina, Hi Bruce.

Bruce: Hey.

Gina: Hi Blueberry.

Blueberry: Wow. I love your office. I love it. I love it I love it I love it I love it!

Gina: Sweetheart, we hear you have an idea for new children's television show.

Blueberry: Yeah, I do. It's gonna be great. You're gonna love it. You're gonna love it love it love it love it.

Bruce: Great, tell us about it.

Blueberry: Well, it's for little kids, we're gonna play games, and we're gonna go to the zoo, and we're just gonna have a lot of fun learning. You're gonna love it.

Gina: I love it already.

Bruce: I'm sold.

Blueberry: Yeah. It's gonna be called "Blueberry Muffins in the Morning:"

Gina and Bruce: Yeah.

Blueberry: "With Blueberry Johnson."

Gina and Bruce: Ohh.

Bruce: Wait a second Blueberry, don't tell me you wanna host the show.

Blueberry: Yeah!

Bruce: But, Blueberry, no candor- you're a producer. Okay. You're not an actor. You know, you don't strike me as the children's show type.

Blueberry: I know, but look at me. I look like a big doll. Kids love me. I was born this way, I really like this.

Gina: Well, that may be true Blueberry, but you can't host the show.

Blueberry: No. NO! Oh... but I'm perfect for the job. I look like a big blueberry, and I talk like a puppet. Kids love me. I was put on this earth to host a children's show.

Bruce: You know, you've had a lot of experience behind the camera.

Gina: Behind the camera.

Bruce: But you've never hosted a children's show.

Blueberry: I know that Bruce, but I'm trying--

Gina: Maybe if you took an acting class or something, Blueberry.

Blueberry: Well, that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. I don't need to take an acting class, I look like a blueberry. Can't you see that? How many people do you know that were born with blue hair, and talk like one of the chipmunks?

Bruce: Other than you?

Blueberry: Yeah!

Bruce: None.

Blueberry: See! I mean, what am I missing here?

Gina: Well, I thought you'd produce the show Blueberry. I mean, we need your editing skills.

Blueberry: My editing skills, Gina? I don't want to edit the show, I wanna host it. OH! Whoa whoa whoa whoa!

Bruce: But Blueberry, what makes you think that you'd be a good children's show host?

Blueberry: I'M A FREAK OF NATURE BRUCE! I can not honestly believe that you're being this much of a moron. I have a decade of experience in children's television, I'm a tireless worker, kids love me, and to top it all off, I LOOK LIKE A FUCKING BLUEBERRY!
Whoa whoa whoa.

Gina: But what makes you think you're right for the job?

Blueberry: I LOOK LIKE A BLUEBERRY! WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO GET THAT THROUGH YOUR THICK HEADS? I LOOK LIKE A BLUEBERRY! ARE WE CLEAR?

Bruce: Yeah, I think so...

Blueberry: ARE WE CLEAR?!!!!

Gina: Yes, Blueberry the job is yours.

Blueberry: Oh. I love it. I love it. I love it I love it I love it I love it I love it. Bye Gina, Bye Bruce!

Bruce: We're not--we're not actually gonna let him host the show, are we?

Gina: No. I mean, you know who'd be perfect for the job?

Both: Richard Dreyfuss.

Bruce: Yeah, although we're never gonna get Richard Dreyfuss.

(in studio)
Blueberry: Okay, and five, four, three, camera two zoom in, and we are out people...Nice job Richard, I love it.

Voice: May I have a glass of water, please?

Blueberry: Incoming...

3/30/2007 01:52:00 PM  
Blogger surrender said...

Sounder:

I visited your blog and your intellect is astounding. I Especially loved the last paragraph of "Creativity Unleashed."

May the Grace of G-d continue to reign down upon you....

Thank you for all the work that you are doing to bring light to the Hidden Truths of Who We Are as Co-Creators.

3/30/2007 02:00:00 PM  
Blogger Shrubageddon said...

May the Grace of G-d continue to reign down upon you....

....as it's been reigning down on the Iraqi's in the form of Depleted Uranium that will poison their soil and them for millions of years.

You're so lucky, Sounder. Not everyone gets that grace...even when they deserve it most.

And Surrender, don't presume to know me and what I create and don't create. What I post here is only part of my being. It in no way encompasses the entire me. We are all part of an extremely complex system that possesses its own substantial momentum and inertia. To change that system is a monumental undertaking. You have to change peoples thoughts, perceptions and ultimately their actions....that's something that doesn't happen overnight...and for a great many, it's something that just will not and cannot happen unless confronted with dire circumstances...and even that's no guarantee.

Those in abject poverty are a necessary byproduct of this insane system...they are the cast-offs...the acceptable, preferred even, collateral damage (horrible terminology....but the reality of it, nonetheless). Searching for God's grace by administering to the plight of the byproduct, whilst magnanimous...if not somewhat selfish (but since we're all selfish...we might as well be selfish in ways such as this), will not change the system which perpetually produces that byproduct. How do you change the system before the system devours us all? That's where the focus needs to be...and the discussion...meanwhile, the tending to the byproduct can continue unabated, hopefully, and concomitantly.

3/30/2007 02:28:00 PM  
Blogger surrender said...

Shrub,

Please forgive me for giving you the impression that I assume anything about you. I have been reading your comments for a while and I know there is something that you want us all to realize. But I am not exactly sure what it is.

I do not have the intellect that you have. THAT I know for sure. Since you are responding to my comments, and they are just comments, an expression of myself, taken out of the context of my life experiences. I am sure that your life experiences are much more profound than mine. But couldn’t we be on the same team????

My comment to Sounder was a response to what he has written when he eluded to the Grace of G-d. Obviously you relationship to G-d is uniquely and purposefully different than mine (or anyone else’s). And I am not interested in changing your mind or point of view about ANYTHING.

Maybe I am really naïve in believing that our relationship to the Source has a great deal to do with how and what we create. I have come to realize that I cannot change anyone’s, thoughts, perceptions or ultimately their actions. Each individual must do that totally on his/her own regardless of the circumstances in which they exist. And then seek out others who reflect their level of awareness. All I can do is express and demonstrate thru my own actions out of the perception of life which is uniquely mine. But I still yearn for a more profound connection.

I am not searching for the Grace of G-d by administering to the “byproduct”. I think people who do that create more damage than good as they see the “byproduct” as something that must be eradicated. All I meant to say is some people who have less than you or I do have found a way to experience life with love and joy in ways that have humbled me many times.

You said: “How do you change the system before the system devours us all? That's where the focus needs to be...and the discussion...meanwhile,”…..

Maybe we will change the system or maybe we won’t but the system exists outside of me, or I exist outside of the system, whatever,…. but I am certain that I am one person that the system will not devour.

PS. I have never had a credit card and anything I own is up for grabs. No one or no thing can devour my soul or spirit.
My Life is Eternal.

3/30/2007 03:53:00 PM  
Blogger heath said...

Firemen douse Rudy’s image as 9/11 hero

...Several American news organisations are preparing expos鳠of the “untold story” of 9/11 after Giuliani’s dispute with the firefighters became embarrassingly public last week. He was the only leading presidential candidate not to appear at a Washington gathering of the International Association of Fire Fighters, which accused him of showing a “disgraceful lack of respect for the fallen” after the September 11 attacks.

Behind the union’s attack lies the grief and anger of families who believe their loved ones need not have died that day and their conviction that some bodies would never have been recovered had Giuliani had his way.

Jim Riches, 29, had been helping to rescue office workers in the north tower when it collapsed. In the dust and debris, his fellow firefighters did not realise that the south tower had already crashed to the ground. Despite the terrifying noise, survivors say they thought only the top storeys had toppled. They never heard the order to evacuate. “My son could have had 30 minutes to escape,” Riches Sr said.

The firefighters were still using the antiquated “handie-talkie” radios that failed to work during the 1993 bombing of the twin towers, when Giuliani was also mayor
(heath's edit: Giuliani was not mayor during the 1993 WTC bombing). He not only failed to replace them, but also located the city’s new emergency command centre at the World Trade Center against the advice of key officials. It proved useless when it was most needed.

Lack of communication also meant that warnings from police helicopters about an imminent collapse failed to get through.

Riches was one of 343 firefighters who died. His father spent every day sifting through the wreckage for bodies, eager for some sign of his son. In November, Giuliani ordered a halt to the work after the remains of 91 firefighters had been recovered.

“Giuliani told everybody the bodies were pulverised, but I was digging them up every day. It was grisly stuff, limbs, little bones - people were blown to bits - but the bodies were there,” said Riches, 55.

The searchers refused to stop. An ugly clash between the firefighters and the New York police left 18 officers injured. Eventually Giuliani backed down and allowed the work to continue, but not before branding the firefighters’ actions as “sinful”.


I wonder why Giuliani would act so suspiciously?

Why are the firefighters 'sinful' for being on the scene and feeling the compulsion to do their jobs well and with heart? What could possibly be Giuliani's excuse for being so adamant about calling off the recovery effort that he would engender a very public battle with the true heroes of 9/11, and call them sinful(had to be repeated)!?

I'm of the opinion that the towers should not have come down the way they did from the plane strikes. Still, after the first tower collapsed, obviously unexpectedly, why wasn't Giuliani moved to save all his firefighters (read eyewitnesses) from a possible second collapse.

What was Giuliani trying to cover up?

BTW, I would like to hear the warnings from the police helicopter regarding the 'imminent collapse' of the North Tower. If they weren't predicting the first collapse, how did they manage to predict the imminent collapse of the second? And shouldn't those inside the towers be the ones who would first suspect a possible collapse?

Why were the bodies 'blown to bits'?

Why did Giuliani insist on placing his command center in the WTC complex, against objections.

3/30/2007 09:37:00 PM  
Blogger Shrubageddon said...

Still, after the first tower collapsed, obviously unexpectedly,....

It wasn't obviously unexpected for me...as I mentioned before, I predicted they were coming down as smoke billowed from them...albeit, I must admit, I didn't expect them to fall the way they did....I expected them to fall somewhat over, not just down.

Also, one possible explanation for Giuliani's behavior towards the firefighters is that he is a fascist dictator and he doesn't tolerate those under his command disobeying his orders. I'm not saying I agree with that explanation, but it is a rational and reasoned possibility.

3/30/2007 10:42:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

Giuliani To Run For President Of 9/11
February 21, 2007 Issue 43•08


NEW YORK—At a well-attended rally in front of his new Ground Zero headquarters Monday, former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani officially announced his plan to run for president of 9/11.

"My fellow citizens of 9/11, today I will make you a promise," said Giuliani during his 18-minute announcement speech in front of a charred and torn American flag. "As president of 9/11, I will usher in a bold new 9/11 for all."

If elected...


Or, as I was just telling my buddy Big Gav, you could also power your magic box with Super Light! God can hide in the details, too, you know...you'll probably have to drift down the page a bit to find where He's hiding for you, but He's in there somewhere. Ericswan, this is the Los Alamos super-scientist that the gardening guy was on about in that last weird link I gave you. Hey, Shrub! Vat's nu?

3/31/2007 12:28:00 AM  
Blogger heath said...

Good for you shrub, that you knew the towers were coming down. Too bad Manhattan didn't receive your sage advice that fateful morning.

I'll restate, no one of importance was letting on that the towers would collapse before the first collapse, hence the towers being filled with hundreds, if not thousands of firefighters before they came down.

343 firefighters didn't make it out. They were not in the towers when they were hit by planes, so why did they die? If it was so obvious that the towers were going to collapse, then why did so many firefighters die?

3/31/2007 03:51:00 AM  
Blogger ericswan said...

Surrender.Your subsistence friends are the way of the future...and the meek shall inherit the earth...

My greatest concern is the ignorance shown here and in the mainstream of chemtrails and the consequences of placing electrolytes of barium and aluminum in the air, earth, water and ultimately in each of us and all to the detriment of natural sunlight hitting the surface of the planet. The research is in. We will soon be under total mind cluster fuck with entrainment using HAARP tech to direct us with em pulses. We are being put to sleep. Those who do not submit to overhead exposure will be treated to other methods of entrainment yet to be decided. At exactly 12:32 PM pacific time, a chemtrail purveyor hits the horizon spewing it's metal carnage over my place of work. It hits the exact same location on the horizon regardless of wind direction, temperature, or human awareness. The effects of chemtrails are unknown and the cost now and in the future astronomical. All this taking place without awareness by Surrender's 90% and without public consultation.

3/31/2007 09:37:00 AM  
Blogger CuriosityShop said...

aka movie girl

IC, thank you for your comments on my blog. Just one correction - I am very much a Mrs. Curiosity not a Mr.!

So hard to tell who is who and what on all these internet boards. I can't understand the purpose of that. I guess it must have something to do with the younger generation and playing games and such. Never was much good at game playing. I'm just an old hippie that still wears my sunglasses at night. And I see the world through a different lens --

But thank you again. And I do enjoy reading your blog, and many of the others on this comment board.

And Jeff, hope you relax and "feel" the music and come back strong and on point. You are very important.

Ahh breathe a sigh of relief we made it through March and now comes April - (or did we?)

Stuart Wilde
March 10, 2007

The Ides of March in the Roman calendar was the 15th day of the Roman month Martius. The date of 15th of March is famous because Julius Caesar was assassinated on the Ides of March, in 44 BC. Because of Shakespeare's play Julius Caesar and its line "Beware the Ides of March", the term possesses a foreboding of doom. (Wikkipedia)

As of the March 21st the Iran government has banned the use of the dollar and merchants and businesses in Iran using the dollar to trade may be arrested and put in prison. Iran will only sell its oil in Euros after that date.

The position of the dollar as the reserve currency of the world is being challenged. North Korea and Malaya followed Iran in banning the dollar. The Korean decision is really quirky as King John’s Ill is famous for counterfeiting the US dollars and shipping them in vast quantities to his embassies round the world. So King John’s Ill will have to ban himself from his little fiddles and retire the printing presses if he wants to set a good example and keep his own laws. Funny eh?

The issue of Iran as a nuclear nation may just be a red herring, a trumped up charge. As the real affront is the decision to not use the American dollar for trade and the sale of oil. Abraham Lincoln and Kennedy are the last two leaders that tried to get rid of the dollar and they met an untimely end. To usurp the power of the Federal Reserve is tantamount to a declaration of war or just plain suicide. There is no way the powers-that-be will allow for it, so the idea I suggested here a while ago of an attack on Iran on March 22nd doesn’t look so daft now. It is all about control of money and the foreign families that control the world and own the dollar. It is also about saving Israel, as they are the only ones to benefit from an attack on Iran. If oil is disrupted it won’t help Israel or the rest of the world, so we may all be headed for kosher chopped liver. Oi vey, what to do, already?

I said nine years ago the dollar will collapse eventually because of the debt and liabilities, which now stand at $53 trillion, and the way central banks around the world are currently fleeing from the dollar in droves maybe be a forerunner of events to come. The Feds used to publish a list of the new money they generated (M3), but now they keep it secret so that tells you there is a massive scam going on holding up the Ivory Tower by printing or creating new dollars to shore up the stock market and the debt.

The real estate collapse in the US isn’t helping much as people are locked into mortgages and assets they can’t get rid of, and pensions are just about to evaporate overnight. So the Yuppie dream is to slip from them just as they expect to retire and collect. Bit sad eh? JC said, “I will come as a thief in the night” I reckon ya man JC is on the roof top already. As soon as he’s finished his chopped liver sandwich he’ll be down the chimney doing a Farther Christmas in reverse, ya Tonka toys might go missing and your RV reincarnates in a few weeks time as a paperweight, very strange.

It’s all terrible interesting. Talk about the burning Bush…it is reported his dad has secretly bought a massive ranch in Paraguay where the Nazis hid after the war. That is a very wise move I reckon. People may try to eat him and his son once the McNuggets fail to arrive. I’ve said before we can only wait and watch while the global-ego dies and try to love people and be kind when they cry. And please don’t cry for me Paraguay, I plunged every dime possible into gold, and so did many other faithful readers of this site, so there might be a tomorrow after all.

The Bush boys are going to like Paraguay it is like the Wild West; businessmen walk down the main street in Ascencion in formal jackets and suits with fancy ornamental guns strapped to their legs with gold-colored bullets in their holsters, and the restaurants serve steaks the size of small horse. Sadly, I never did find out if John Wayne was gay, but he might have been Paraguayan, I reckon. The mystery continues.
© Stuart Wilde 2007
www.stuartwilde.com


and for those so inclined to still wear their sunglasses at night -

http://www.stuartwilde.com/Articles/SW_articles_plan_vast.htm

And right under your feet, and all around you, (s)he is singing to those who can hear the music.

All these bee stories in the news.

Did ya know -

Bee (mythology)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Gold placques embossed with the winged bee-goddesses, perhaps the Thriai, found at Camiros Rhodes, 7th century BCE (British Museum)In the ancient Near East and throughout the Aegean world, bees were seen as a bridge between the natural world and the underworld. Bees were carved on tombs. The Mycenaean tholos tombs even took the form of beehives.

Winged, armed with toxin, creators of the fermentable honey, seemingly parthenogenetic in their immortal hive, bees were emblems of Potnia, the Minoan-Mycenaean "Mistress" older than Demeter, who might sometimes be called "the pure Mother Bee."


Wasn't Dagobert of the Merovingian dynasty a "long-haired" "Wizard" king, with peculiar beliefs and practices, such as said to have a crystal ball, a BEE as his emblem (so did King Tut btw!! ) and it was said that if you touched his royal robe that you would be cured of any illness? Hmmm......interesting..............

have seen it said that it was Pythagoras' wife who actually founded the teachings of the "Golden Mean" prinicple....

....and a little known fact is that Pythagoras got much of his knowledge and teachings from a Delphian Priestess/Oracle called Themistoclea

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/9974/old.html
Themistoclea

Ancient sources point to women as active participants, playing a central role in the development of early Pythagorean philosophy. Pythagoras produced a school of philosophy that was religious and mystical and the Pythagoreans made important contributions to mathematics, musical theory, and astronomy. What is not commonly known however is that there exists a record that Pythagoras acquired the greater part of his ethical doctrines from Themistoclea, the Priestess of Delphi, and that what he taught he had heard from her.


Speaking of "BEE" Priestess' and the related "Queen Bee" - I find it interesting that there is a very old esoteric saying that goes :"Who ever finds the Queen, becomes the King"....

right under your feet and right under your nose........

3/31/2007 11:44:00 AM  
Blogger ericswan said...

FEEL FREE TO CRITICIZE THIS POST. THE AUTHOR'S EMAIL IS ATTACHED.


Synopsis: Belief NYC firefighters died on 9/11 after controlled-demolition commands transmitted over 'murder-by-phone' networks from the Mayor's Office of Emergency Management in WTC#7.

Open e-mail sent Friday, March 30, 2007 to:

Rudi Giuliani, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Giuliani Partners LLC
5 Times Square, New York, NY 10036 Tel: 212.931.7300 info@giulianipartners.com

From:
Captain Field McConnell and David Hawkins, Forensic Economists at Hawks' CAFE http://www.hawkscafe.com/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hawkscafe/

Copies include:
John C. Cavanaugh, Active Officers Life Insurance, jcavanaugh@ufoa.org
Mario A. Diaz, Retired Officers Life Insurance mdiaz@ufoa.org
Uniformed Fire Officers Association, Local 854, I.A.F.F., AFL-CIO.

U.S. Vice-President Richard Cheney vice_president@whitehouse.gov
Canadian Prime Minister, Stephen Harper pm@pm.gc.ca

Jack Blood http://jackblood.netfirms.com/home/, jackblood@hotmail.com

David Blood & Al Gore info@generationim.com Co-founders, Generation Investment Management, Washington, D.C. (202 785 7400) London, U.K. +44 (0) 207 534 4700


Dear Mr. Giuliani:

Re: Giuliani's Firefighters & Murder-by-Phone

Hawks CAFE believes that 342 New York City firefighters died on 9/11 after their Motorola analog radio systems were sabotaged and a sequence of encrypted controlled-demolition commands was transmitted over four virtual-private networks, allegedly used in Interstate Commerce for 'murder-by-phone' or 'murder-for-hire' by the CAI-Carlyle Canada private equity group and the Bonanno-Rizutto crime families of New York and Montreal.

Our research indicates an Interagency Working Group, led by Vice-President Al Gore, Attorney General Janet Reno, Associate Attorney General Webster Hubbell, Commerce Secretary Ron Brown, and, Director of Office and Management Budget Leon Panetta, wittingly or unwittingly, set up murder-by-phone networks for continuity-of-government exercises (COG), including that staged on 9/11 by an Amec-Citigroup partnership through the Mayor's Office of Emergency Management in Seven World Trade Center.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hawkscafe/message/110

Gore's IWG integrated AT&T's secure telephony, Nortel's Voice over Internet Protocol and Boeing's Iridium and Thuraya satellite communication networks, apparently financed with drug money confiscated by the U.S. Department of Justice or UN Oil-for-Food money stolen by CAI-Carlyle Canada hedge fund managers acting for the allegedly racketeering clients of BNP Paribas and JPMorgan.

We allege that Carlyle's dirty money was invested and laundered in a contrived panic of the New York Stock Exchange so that insiders could profit by 'shorting' the Chicago Mercantile Exchange while
Carlyle's re-insurer, Axa Re, collected on so-called "dead-peasant" life insurance contracts after the firefighters died in the controlled demolition.
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2006/1/17/141106.shtml

Research suggests a strategic goal for 9/11 was to destroy the Kyoto carbon-credit trading business of Cantor Fitzgerald in the North Tower and allow CAI-Carlyle private equity groups, together with the various Signatories to the U.N. Environment Programme, to launder dirty money through alternative trading on the Chicago Climate Exchange, using kickbacks to bind assassins into Carlyle's global and growing murder-for-hire network.

In this scenario, the profits from 9/11 appear to have been kicked back through virtual private networks into the pension funds of senior officers who sent the NYC firefighters to their deaths and the contractors involved in both the clean up and the cover up, including Amec, mobbed-up labor unions and various sub-contactors affiliated to La Cosa Nostra.
http://www.hawkscafe.com/070106.html

We have placed your name on the list of 100 prospective defendants in the proposed class action civil suit outlined at the url below, but we have no means of knowing at this time whether your acts of commission or omission during Amec's bogus continuity-of-government exercise of 9/11 were negligent, reckless, wilful or fraudulent.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hawkscafe/message/127

If you can explain the Carlyle Group's apparent use of murder-by-phone networks to kill the firefighters, including the possibility that you and other public servants were taken by surprise by the attacks and subsequently extrorted or entrapped into silence, please let us know and we would then be delighted to invite you to become one of our 100 plaintiffs.

Yours sincerely,

Field McConnell
9223 50th Ave S
Glyndon MN 56547
218 329 2993

David Hawkins,
Vancouver, B.C. Canada
604 542 0891

Notes: "Giuliani's Firefighters & Murder-by-Phone"

"Giuliani .. faulted on two major issues .. failure to provide World Trade Center's first responders with adequate radios .. The Sept. 11 Commission noted the firefighters at the World Trade Center were using the same ineffective radios employed by the first responders to the 1993 terrorist attack on the trade center. Regenhard, at a 2004 commission hearing in Manhattan, screamed at Giuliani, "My son was murdered because of your incompetence!" The hearing was a perfect example of the 9/11 duality: Commission members universally praised Giuliani at the same event. A November 2001 decision to step up removal of the massive rubble pile at ground zero. The firefighters were angered when the then-mayor reduced their numbers among the group searching for remains of their lost "brothers," focusing instead on what they derided as a "scoop and dump" approach. Giuliani agreed to increase the number of firefighters at ground zero just days after ordering the cutback. More than 5 1/2 years later, body parts are still turning up in the trade center site. "We want America to know what this guy meant to New York City firefighters," said Peter Gorman, head of the Uniformed Fire Officers Association. "In our experiences with this man, he disrespected us in the most horrific way .. Giuliani was also criticized for locating the city's emergency center in 7 World Trade Center, a building that contained thousands of gallons of diesel fuel when it collapsed after the terrorist attack. The lingering ill will between Giuliani and firefighters was resurrected when the International Association of Fire Fighters initially decided not to invite the former mayor to its March 14 candidates forum in Washington."
http://www.comcast.net/news/index.jsp?cat=GENERAL&fn=/2007/03/30/623562.html&cvqh=itn_giuliani

3/31/2007 11:49:00 AM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

Curious Movie Shop Girl,

I stand corrected, abashed and, frankly, awed. (And not just because you're an old hippie chick, by whose ilk I've always been so mesmerized.) I love all that stuff I've read at your shop, but I really have to ask if it matters (other than from a question of symmetry and the weighty issue of unseating the patriarchy which has brought such ruin upon us) whether it was Pythagoras or some feminine oracle who "gave" us the means for comprehending the golden mean? I mean, if grandpa Tolkien found it in the music of the spheres, and if it really exists in nature, as Haeckel & others have indicated (The Five Solids as found in Nature), and as even some rather manly geneticists are beginning to understand, then it should be there for all of us to see, hear, touch...and apprehend, right?

On the other hand, if smashing the patriarchy is essential to moving forward--and it might very well be--then perhaps resurrecting the earth mother is a prerequisite to regaining our lost understanding of the world. Whatever the case might be, I thank you for your insight.

But how are going to bring the bees back? Most indicators are pointing to GMO crops--what's the antidote, through your lens?

3/31/2007 05:26:00 PM  
Blogger Potemkin Village Idiot said...

Now you understand why I support mandatory euthanasia for baby boomers.

3/31/2007 08:43:00 PM  
Blogger Potemkin Village Idiot said...

Now that you´re all dolled up bitch, I´m going to take your face and shove it right through this fucking plate glass window!

3/31/2007 08:49:00 PM  
Blogger Potemkin Village Idiot said...

eh futbol fuck, ever had a stomach stapling operation ?

3/31/2007 09:01:00 PM  
Blogger Potemkin Village Idiot said...

Eric Neitzke, and Attorney in Daytona Beach pretends to be a Horse person. He is far from that. He brought over to my Ranch miniature Horses already infected with STRANGLES, a very contagious and deadly disease. He sent me a long 3 page letter telling me I was bugging him just because I wanted him to reimburse me for vet bills and expenses due to his Slum Lord mentallity. Mary Jan Henderson, an area Circut Judge is wanting to regulate the Horse Business because of people like him.

Eric Neitzke, Attorney nearly killed my horses... Slum Lord

In his long letter, he equated the sickness to day care. So either he thinks it is ok to infect children too or he is telling me that he cant be responsible for the disease. NOT. Earth to Eric Neitzke, you might be a liberal trial attorney but you know nothing about horses and should be banned from raising them.

To bring infected horses to my ranch run by even his sister caused her thousands of dollars beacuse she had to stop operations at the ranch and not bring more horses in till the disease ran its course...... weeks. Thanks to her great care of her facility, my horses and others were spared death. But they were sick and I had to take alot of time to care for them.

Eric Neitzke, stay an Attorney, you have to be responsible for your actions....... I know you dont want to but you will lose the lawsuit. More to come.

Horse Lover

3/31/2007 09:12:00 PM  
Blogger ericswan said...

Sniffer...blueprint of the North Tower interest you?

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/plans/frames.html

3/31/2007 09:46:00 PM  
Blogger ericswan said...

Charity begins at home but this virtue is translating to vice by middlemen fronting for big business. Somehow, these boxes within boxes on a street with no name, got us wired, divided and conquered. Most of you here would be leaders in your community if your community could understand what you were on about. It's not so much that they don't, it's a question of timing. The pendulum swings and hit while the metal is hot. When the going gets tough the weak join the army.

4/01/2007 10:08:00 AM  
Blogger Sounder said...

Surrender, thank-You for your kind words, still I beg to differ. My intellect is not,--well, what you said,--. It is more the case that I have chosen to apply my intellect towards an obsession rather than diplomas or spiritual discipleship brownie points.

My obsession to understand reality provides motivation that social climbing could never provide. I choose a lifestyle modeled on Spinoza rather than Leibniz. Despite excommunication and vilification during his life, Spinoza was pleasant, had good friends and many came to his funeral. While Leibniz was a puffed up social butterfly, always looking to cash in on his precocious gathering of intellectual tidbits. People did not like him; no one came to his funeral, yet he was quite successful in worldly terms.

Social climbing produces a particular style of relation to reality. One where the fleeting veneer of a rational process fixates on controlling objects, while forgetting that life is lived in the space between the objects. The Ends (getting the object) will surely corrupt the Means (be clever in how you subvert ethical standards). The struggle then is between living an authentic life versus a life of expediency. While everyone will do a bit of both, satisfaction and pleasure is found in the former, while only shallow gloating is found in the latter.

How do we remove the inclination of some people to take advantage of or even cultivate the ignorance of the public? An answer to this will do more to feed the poor than any number of social programs. Enough of this, the day is beautiful so I am going out to enjoy it.

4/01/2007 12:48:00 PM  
Blogger Dr. Bombay said...

If you have not seen it, there is
a piece of video taken from a CNN
report on 9/11 that shows a
reporter standing in front of the
Pentagon shortly after the strike
and stating "There are no visible
signs of an aircraft" hitting the
building. In fact, the video shows
the light towers still standing
directly in the flight path of
whatever hit the Pentagon. The
video only aired once on CNN, and
was never aired again. Luckily,
someone captured the footage on
tape in real time as it aired.

www.surfingtheapocalypse.com

4/01/2007 03:54:00 PM  
Blogger #1 Sniffer said...

ericswan said... "Sniffer...blueprint of the North Tower interest you?

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/plans/frames.html "

Well yes and no. The only thing that I think matters is whether 911 was an inside job or not. That's already established far "beyond a reasonable doubt," to a growing percentage of the population who has seen more than enough tangible and other evidence.

A growing percent of people who've conducted the most reliable type of investigation possible, an "open source investigation," where they, not any fraudulent representatives of them, get to examine any and all the evidence that survives scrutiny by themselves and at their own pace. This unfolding process took it's time and is now in the closing stages.

After that, the details which could be in the millions and never stop coming in, may be interesting but don't matter much, regarding the final verdict.

So while the good news is these blueprints might expose some parts of false official versions of events, the bad news is if previous evidence didn't convince fence sitters official versions were lies, or deter the liars from lying, these new blueprints, far too technical for the layman, probably won't either.

Still maybe there's some value in this as evidence in future trials of the guilty, or as a type of morale booster to the 911 truth movement of having yet another objective reinforcement for their case crop up (and of new alleged "whistle blowers" joining their bandwagon).

Public opinion which empowers or brings down governments, matters, and the energy such things feed, in ways our tiny brains cannot always fathom, may well have us closer to a tipping-point where a new public opinion takes hold, than we may suspect. Certainly such things must work on all of us on a subliminal level to strengthen us for a change. So I welcome all truth, the more the better.

Of course that itself is dangerous in the short-term as it brings about the unpleasant but necessary confrontations (or convulsions) over it. Of course the increasingly cornered criminals will feel the pressure and sense a need to stage a new diversion (like a new bigger 911-type event from Iran or something else), to shake things up and reassert their control.

I would count on it, but still have hope that the new cry of wolf will fall on increasingly deaf ears and backfire royally.

4/01/2007 05:30:00 PM  
Blogger Silverfox said...

for Sounder ans Surrender

There is no need
to run outside
for better seeing,
nor to peer
from a window.

Rather abide
at the center
of your being;
for the more
you leave it,
the less you learn.

Search your heart
and see
If he is wise
who takes each turn:

The way to do
is to be.

-Lao-Tzu-

4/01/2007 10:29:00 PM  
Blogger surrender said...

Hey Sounder.

I just really like the way you write. I have to really pay attention.

thanks

Silverfox:

It's about remembering and reminding others when we forget.

thank you

4/01/2007 11:54:00 PM  
Blogger surrender said...

Well....

Just for fun!? Does anyone want to comment about Rosie O'Donnell's blast into the 9/11 scene.? and the other issures she's raising?

I don't watch television but I have been reading about it.

I wonder.....

4/02/2007 12:04:00 AM  
Blogger #1 Sniffer said...

I think Rosie's rants are fascinating, not just in what they say about Rosie but about us and the world we live in.

Imagine that, its 2007 and its only people in the spotlight like Rosie (as she pushes the envelope) who are in the "leading edge" in terms of courage and willing to speak truth. Is this 1984 or what???

Its like the other day I followed a link to Pravda and was surprised how good the article was (and others were), and thought how unbelievable it would have seemed 20 or 30 years ago to believe that I would someday read Pravda and find it more believable than the Washington Post, NY Times, all U.S. media, etc.

Similar with Rosie. Never dreamed she would ever sound more believable than the other conventional members of any panel she's in.

Many view her with suspicion, thinking maybe she's being used to get us in a kind of New World Order trap to discredit the 911 truth movement by linking her with it (I notice videos of her leaving her wedding to another woman now keep getting repeated at the mention of her name).

But I've been watching her a little for years and am inclined to believe while she has been used in the past by those forces, she's been using them back, and underneath all her weirdness is a patriotic "in your face" wysiwyg Americans not afraid to tell whatever she happens to think to anyone.

I remember just days after 911 when the trauma of it was setting in, when Bush was playing the strong comforting leader, ala FDR after Pearl Harbor; Rosie was one of the traumatized celebrities asked about Bush (she was previously very loyal pro-Gore Democrat and hated Bush).

Suddenly she truly loved Bush and was deeply thankful he, not Gore, was President (as he was projecting such strength and leadership).

But we don't need to read between the lines about Rosie. All we "911 truthers" have to do is hear what she says about 911, and if she's telling truth and helping wake people up, she's redeeming herself very well, welcome among us, and we'll defend her.

And she definitely has a big leg up on Jeff on objectiveness about 911 evidence.

4/02/2007 01:36:00 AM  
Blogger just_another_dick said...

"Regardless of causation, the result is the same: people are shaken, people take to religion, and people look up. And whether the phenomenon is fraudulent or genuine, human or supra-human, that appears to be the intention."

http://www.unknowncountry.com/journal/?id=278

"It is possible that the visitors are about to show up. I am not saying that this will happen, but only that this is a time when it could happen, and there are some indications that it may be about to happen.

The indications are these: First, the large number of UFO sightings around the world, capped most recently by a report that there is an active UFO on the ground in southern Somalia. Is this report true? So far, it has not been possible to follow up, and probably the only way to get confirmation would be from a US military satellite, and we can forget that. Second, the sudden upsurge in official and semi-official statements, with the latest being Gov. Fife Symington's reiteration on Good Morning America this morning that he had seen a UFO."

-snip-

"This will unfold outside of the context of current religious and governmental structures. The planet is dying, which is why the visitors are showing up now, to try to offer us a new perspective. They will not lay out a plan of action. But observing their presence, the knowledge they have left behind already, and whatever messages we can glean from early attempts at communication, will provide us with a rich new source of ideas.

Depending on how serious our situation actually is, they may intervene in the cultural milieu in some very surprising ways, by taking specific action to deflect or curtail the activities of those most unwilling to try to live in a way that will sustain the planet's functioning long term. If that happens, then we will see interventions that will cause a good deal of consternation, although I cannot even begin to guess the exact form they may take.

They will not at first address the species' various religious ideas except in very general terms, by communicating with us in triads, with a positive thrust and a negative thrust, leaving us to evolve the message by reconciling its two parts. I know that this is very, very different from the way we commuicate, but it works and if they do show up it will become familiar enough."


http://www.ufodigest.com/news/0307/tremble.html

"This is significant because Christ told His followers that just as it happened in the days of Noah, so shall it be also when the Son of Man is revealed (returns) (Luke 17:26, 30). Today in our world, we have goings on much like there was then including a great deal of sin and debauchery and possibly chasing after strange flesh by fallen angels (extraterrestrials). Look at all the immorality like pedophilia and child abductions as well as all of the UFO sightings, alien abductions and the cases of alien human hybrid experiments, and you will see a return to the days of Noah when the Sons of God (fallen angel extraterrestrials) mated with the daughters of men. You will know that the Lord is about to reappear very soon and take His own to be with Him in the clouds while all hell breaks loose here on earth. The sudden disappearance of millions will be explained as abduction by UFOs. We have been conditioned, programmed if you will, to believe such lies by the great Deceiver himself, Satan and his minions of fallen angels (extraterrestrials).

This is also important because demons (fallen angels) tremble at the name of Jesus (James 2:19). God highly exalted Him and bestowed on Him the name which is above all names (Philippians 2:9). At the name of Jesus every knee shall bow of those on the earth (us) and those under the earth (fallen angels) and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father (Philippians 2:10). Next time you are confronted by an extraterrestrial ("alien") who is trying to abduct you just call out the name of Jesus and it will leave. I did it when I was confronted by demons who wanted to harm me and it worked. The name of Jesus is a powerful name above all other names.

In conclusion, all that I am trying to say is that this UFO phenomenon is real and is an important part of the end time's fulfillment of Scripture. Do not be deceived by these cunning fallen angels who would love nothing more than to lead you smiling to the pits of hell with them. "

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDqGl9joIbY

"On Saturday, November 26, 1977 at 5:10 P.M., a television news broadcast in the southern part of the United Kingdom was temporarily hijacked...
While the video portion of the newscast remained unaffected, the audio was overridden by a strange electronic voice...
The voice claimed to be an alien from outer space who called himself, "Vrillon of the Ashtar Command..."


It's quite amazing how ET sounds just like a British guy with his voice either slowed down a tad or fed through an effects device.
But after listening to Vrillon's message I couldn't help wondering exactly where IC was on that fateful night in 1977.

C'mon IC, fess up....

....or should I say Vrillon?

I personally can't wait until Lone Ranger ET or Lone Ranger Jesus comes riding over the ridge at the last moment to save of us from our own addle pated stupidity.

I'm hoping for a Heavenly Choir of Cherubs & Nephilim performing a pristine & perfect rendition of the Mighty Mouse theme song as a masked & six-gun totin' Deity/ET-ity rides into town with a hearty " Hi-Ho Yahweh."

Accompanied by his faithful sidekick Gabriel/Lam, he'll right all our wrongs & kiss all our boo-boos away.


As a matter of fact, I can almost hear it now....


...if y'all try real hard I bet you can too.















"So light in his way,
Like an apparition,
He had me crying out,
"Fuck me
It's gotta be
the Deadhead Chemistry
The blotter got on top of me
Got me seein' E-motherfuckin'-T!"

And after calming me down
with some orange slices
and some fetal spooning,
E.T. revealed to me his singular purpose.
He said, "You are the Chosen One,
the One who will deliver the message.
A message of hope for those who choose to hear it
and a warning for those who do not."
Me. The Chosen One?
They chose me!!!
And I didn't even graduate from fuckin' high school."




Wait, wait, that's definitely not Mighty Mouse....


Let's try again....a little harder shall we?














"Overwhelmed as one would be, placed in my position.
Such a heavy burden now to be the One
Born to bear and bring to all the details of our ending,
To write it down for all the world to see.

But I forgot my pen
Shit the bed again ...
Typical.

Strapped down to my bed
Feet cold and eyes red
I'm out of my head
Am I alive? Am I dead?
Sunkist and Sudafed
Gyroscopes and infrared
Won't help, I'm brain dead
Can't remember what they said
God damn, shit the bed

I can't remember what they said to me
Can't remember what they said to make me out to be the hero
Can't remember what they said
Bob help me!
Can't remember what they said"



Oh well, maybe another time.

4/02/2007 03:03:00 AM  
Blogger Sounder said...

That was precious Richard, thank-you very much.

Human expressions are shaped through two basic styles of mentality. One community is looking for truth/knowledge, while the other looks to build power. The power people hold sway to the degree that they are able to co-opt the formulations of the truth/knowledge people. Our current dualistic criteria give rhetorical advantage to people like Rush Limbaugh. I intend to do my part to remove this advantage.

I need help, as my education while broad is not deep. There are certain ideas in my blog essays that need deeper examination than I feel able to give them. My desire is to connect with people smarter than I so as to flesh out some of these ideas. The connection will be easier found if it is clearly seen that our current criteria for understanding is inadequate to these times.

Peace

4/02/2007 07:38:00 AM  
Blogger Mark said...

Found a short clip about exotic weaponry use at the WTC:

Totovader ignores evidence of exotic weaponry used on 911 5:03 min
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaFHNcIBzcQ&mode=related&search=

I have no idea who "totovader" is, and don't care, because the implications are immense since it would connect the U.S. Air Force possibly in the attacks directly.

(The USS George Washington, an aircraft carrier only recently involved in high level NATO wargaming with Global Hawk test use [!] was right off New York City during the attacks, making the USS George Washington staff a prime candidate in a potential Air Force side of the 9-11 attacks.)

Quoted in the short film, perhaps worth a look into:

"The Air Force has a Directed Energy Directorate which possesses weapons that are capable of turning steel to dust."

And one of his subtitles notes:

"Exotic weapons can cause levitation, fracturing, and jellification of metals."

--which would certainly explain some of the 'flipped on their hoods and melted cars' around the WTCs--as well as blocks away from the WTCs.

Though the short film is an intellectual version of a playground fight between the maker of this short film with the unknown "totovader," (cute and even humorous to listen to) the film is a nice short presentation about directed energy weapons of the U.S. Air Force in the film (little clips of them are shown from around 3:35 onward in the film), interspersed with 'non gasoline fire' damage to steel all over the place.

And here, many more pictures like these "jellified steel" pictures are shown. This page recently updated with A LOT MORE 'microwaved/directed energy weapons hit' steel all over the place at the WTCs:

http://janedoe0911.tripod.com/StarWarsBeam5.html

4/02/2007 07:39:00 AM  
Blogger CuriosityShop said...

http://www.standingwomen.org/english_story.html

The women of Ohio call upon the women of the world, from the day-old babies to our most senior elders, to stand with us to save the world.
Sharon Mehdi wrote a wonderful short story for her five-year old granddaughter, The Great Silent Grandmother Gathering that has inspired us. A quick summary of the story is:

A busboy who worked in a café whose window faced the public park noticed that two grandmotherly looking women had been standing in the park all day without moving at all and without talking. They were dressed up in their Sunday best and were just staring at the town hall. He asked the other patrons in the café what they thought the women were up to. They speculated on a variety of things. Then, a five-year old year who was in the café spoke up and said "One of them is my grandmother and I know what they are doing. They are standing there to save the world." All of the men in the café hooted and howled and laughed. On his way home the busboy decided to ask the women what they were doing and sure enough their answer was "We are saving the world."

Over dinner that evening the busboy told his parents and he and his father hooted and howled, but his mother was totally silent. After dinner, the mother called her best friends to tell them.

The next morning the busboy looked out the café window and the two women were back, along with his mother, her friends, and the women who had been in the café the day before. All were standing in silence staring at the town hall. Again, the men hooted and howled and said things like "You can't save the world by standing in the park. That is what we have armies for," and "everyone knows you have to have banners and slogans to save the world--you can't do it by just standing in the park."

The next day the women were joined by the women who were in the café the day before and a number of their friends. This brought the local newspaper reporter to the scene. He wrote a derisive article about the women. The day after it appeared, hundreds of women showed up to stand in the park in silence. The mayor then told the police chief to make the women leave because they were making the town appear to be foolish. When the police chief told them they would have to disperse because they didn't have a permit, one of them responded that "we are just individuals standing in our public park and we are not giving speeches or having a demonstration so why would we need a permit." The police chief thought about this and agreed with them and left the park.
At this point 2,223 women including the mayor's wife, the police chief's wife, and one five-year old girl were standing in the park to save the world. The news quickly spread and soon women were standing all over the country. The story ended with women standing in every country throughout the globe, standing to save the world.
See www.grandmotherbook.com.

Please stand with us for five minutes of silence at 1 p.m. your local time on May 13, 2007, in your local park, school yard, gathering place, or any place you deem appropriate, to signify your agreement with the statement below. We ask you to invite the men who you care about to join you. We ask that you bring bells to ring at 1 p.m. to signify the beginning of the five minutes of silence and to ring again to signify the end of the period of silence. During the silence, please think about what you individually and we collectively can do to attain this world. If you need to sit rather than stand, please feel free to do so. Afterwards, hopefully you and your loved ones can talk together about how we can bring about this world.

“We are standing for the world’s children, and grandchildren, and the seven generations behind them.

We dream of a world where all our children have clean water to drink, safe air to breathe and enough food to eat.

A world where they access to a basic education to develop their minds and healthcare to nurture their growing bodies.

A world where they have a warm, safe loving place to call home.

A world where they don’t live in fear of violence, in their home, in their neighborhood, in their school, or in their world.

This is the world of which we dream.

This is the cause for which we stand.”


Will you stand with us?
http://www.standingwomen.org/

4/02/2007 08:30:00 AM  
Blogger Mark said...

1.

Rare footage of flight 93 "crash site"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iuVBk-FOhk&NR=1

No Boeing there.

2.

Heads up that actually lots of melted jellified cars were saved: they were spirited away to an unknown hanger at JFK airport (placed under a Bush "Pioneer" investor in the Bush 2004 campaign, of dubious legality--see below). He's overseeing lots of samples of the amalgamated solidified iron, assuredly cooled thermate chunks--while additionally getting a 100 million dollar funding for WTC site rebuilding.

The reportage below (linked) says the "WTC remains" are under the jurisdiction of the Port Authority still, under "Charles Gargano"--though the corporate media fails to really describe who he is, which would get rather embarrassing fast.

The steel was placed in a hangar at JFK airport. Additionally to Gargano, "Alice Greenwald" and "Jan Ramirez" are noted as responsible as 'curators' of a sort, on site.

The Blackmail Room? WTC Remains hidden away at JFK Airport Hanger, Under Control of Port Authority. Melted Cars Went There
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRWvkczHwrE&NR=1

Though the corporate media narration sounds like something right out of Third Reich/Leni Reifenstahl, the descriptions of what was saved was interesting. MANY strange melted cars with missing engine blocks, from the pictures, seem to be stored there which sure didn't happen because they were crushed though seemingly from exotic weaponry. Thus this hangar's contents is 'scientific blackmail' on the Bush administration, just waiting to explode--when the investigation that never was really starts.

I'm sure both 'sides' in this battle of reality that is 9-11 realize its power. If people get in there to test it, or it remains off limits, remains to be seen. That's probably why Gargano is lording over it.

The report says (at least now..) that:

"Much of what you have seen will be on permanent display, as soon as the memorial museum" is arranged.

I don't think we'll see an internally melted car in that public display--unless 9-11 is eventually turned into a memorial museum for how the WWII Nazi treasonous family of the Bushes and the administrative state terrorism attempt to bring about fascism was averted in the USA.

As one (unattributable though there it is) comment at YouTube noted:

"I've managed demolition and construction projects for over 25 years--demolition workers sure as hell don't take the extra time to cut up beams in neat straight angles with an acetylene torch. They cut the shortest path through the steel. Columns cut at an angle like that are left only after controlled demolition. They could not possible have realized what they were saving, or filming. It's a dead giveaway."

Do they realize it? I'm sure they do. The contents of that hangar are going to be an interesting political and scientific football particularly since no informed physical study occurred of why three buildings crashed to the ground on 9-11, given only two planes hit.

3.

This is likely why Charles Gargano is in charge of WTC remains at least right now.

Here's some information on Gargano: The most charitable thing to say about him is that he's a Bush "Pioneer" election contributor. After that it goes downhill fast, with his ties to

1. Italy
2. founding banks connected with financial fraud
3. founding gambling casinos
4. on locations of Indian reservations
5. corrupt rigged construction company contracting
6. rescued from certain prosecution when Bush came in as President in 2001.
7. Then he went on to be found by the FBI to be conducting stock market money laundering.

Can we say potential Mafia?

His information is provided by Texans for Public Justice.

Go to our searchable Ranger and Pioneer database

Name Charles & Frank Gargano

Appointed To
Industry Other
Employer State of New York
Occupation Empire State Development Corp. Chair
Address New York, NY
Status for 2000 not listed
Status for 2004 Ranger

Profile

Charles Gargano was a top fundraiser for Pioneers Alfonse D'Amato and Governor George Pataki, who appointed him state economic development czar in 1994.

Pioneers D'Amato and Pataki urged George W. Bush to appoint Gargano first as the New York fundraising chair of Bush's 2000 presidential campaign and, later, as Ambassador to Italy.

Although initially tapping Gargano for the fundraising post, Bush in the end gave neither job to Gargano, who was the target of a federal corruption probe.


Federal prosecutors had subpoenaed Gargano to determine how millions of dollars in state grants, loans and contracts went to major GOP donors.

After initially ruling that Silverite Construction was ineligible for a $97 million tunnel contract, for example, New York's Metropolitan Transportation Authority awarded Silverite the contract in 1997 [and changed its mind]--within days of $100,000 in contributions to the state GOP from Silverite sources.

Federal prosecutors dropped their corruption probe without explanation immediately after Bush became president in January 2001.

This was not the first ethical run-in for Gargano, who was a top executive at construction firm J.D. Posillico--which paid $315,000 to settle 1981 contract-rigging charges--before heading Long Island's First Commercial Bank.

Gargano was involved with several dubious companies when Pataki put him in charge of the Empire State Development Corp.(ESDC) in 1994, the New York Times later reported.

Gargano sat on the board of Eagle Trading Technologies, which the Securities and Exchange Commission charged in 2002 with reporting fictitious sales and fraudulently claiming to possess security technologies after September 11th. [i.e., undocumented claimed stock market trade wins and losses as the claimed source of money.]


[In other words, likely involved in fronting stock market illicit money laundering.]

Gargano also invested in a gambling company that reorganized as a sealant manufacturer.

The FBI's Operation Bermuda Short nailed this company in 2002 for commiting securities fraud with Eagle's president [which Gargano additionally had contacts with, noted above.]

Gargano resigned in 1995 from the board of Alpha Hospitality, which was seeking to open a New York Indian casino, prompting ESDC conflict questions.

[And how many "Indian casinos" have been connected to Abramoff/DeLay election fraud monies/money laundering....Just another wild coincidence I guess.]

Not having filed a federal tax return since 1981, ex-Alpha President Monty Hundley was indicted on tax fraud charges in 2002.

[Still with this "reputable history", Gargano...]

...With Pioneers Pataki, Roland Betts and Stanley O'Neal, Gargano sits on the board of the Lower Manhattan Development Corp., which is overseeing the rebuilding of the World Trade Center's ground zero.

Board member Sally Hernandez-Pinero is an ex-vice president of the Related Companies (see David Carmen), which received $100 million of the federal funds allocated for post-September 11th rebuilding.

[How did Gargano get that contract with his recidivist criminal corporate past?]

The 2004 Bush campaign initially identified Gargano's nephew, Frank Gargano, as a Pioneer fundraiser in July 2003. But four months later it dropped Frank's name from an updated Pioneer list, replacing it with Charles.

A year after Long Island's Huntington Township Chamber of Commerce hired Frank Gargano to lobby Governor Pataki's office in 2002, Pataki appointed Frank Gargano to the council of the State University of New York at Albany.


http://www.whitehouseforsale.org/contributorsandpaybacks/pioneer_profile.cfm?pioneer_ID=842

I guess we can suppose that the University of New York at Albany won't be the one researching that steel evidence. Hopefully Gargano will be removed from his oversight of WTC remains.

4/02/2007 08:50:00 AM  
Blogger Mark said...

Something that would never happen in the highly controlled mediasphere in the USA:

UK Sky News Gives 10 Whole Minutes to David Shayler, who basically says "No planes" or different planes at WTCs and Pentagon, makes the case for American state terrorism
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLEDN5-KWFE&mode=related&search=

And its probably first time you'll ever hear (in a TV medium at least) that AA11 and AA77 weren't scheduled to take off on 9-11. Shayler makes a good "save" away from the psychological argument line of the person being interviewed with him, and steers it back onto 9-11 evidence.

4/02/2007 09:14:00 AM  
Blogger messianicdruid said...

Muddy said, "First of all, what are the known facts?

A) That we as a species have a basic imperative to survive.

B) From this we have groups/individuals within the species who think they know how best to survive.

C) Inevitably a group or an individual is willing to kill or forcibly control other groups/individuals over fundamental disagreements on how best to survive.

D) The resulting trauma from the actualisation of point C creates not just fundamental but intractable disagreement between groups/individuals.

E) It seems that as long as there is disagreement on how best to survive groups/individuals become trapped in a circular pattern from B to C to D.

These are the known facts.

Therefore we are all trapped. Mostly by point C.

There is nothing morally wrong with point C. Killing and controlling are necessary survival tools up to a point.

I'd like to think we've reached that point. But we haven't. We are probably not anywhere remotely close to reaching it.

So, like it or not (and I fucking hate it) we are just going to have to be patient and suffer fools gladly. We can most likely expect many many lifetimes and more of abject suffering and cruelty of the type we see today. It may even get worse.

Until point C actually stops being useful to groups/individuals we are still trapped. Unfortunately, point C remains quite useful for the simple fact that it is being used.

F) Inevitably, groups/individuals will see that point C is actually the negation of point A.

And this is where we all stand it seems. On the brink of the negation of point A.

So the solution is the intuitive assertion point F. There is no forcing or ethical persuasion or doctrines of faith or revelation of truth or anything at all that is necessary to bring this about. People will either see this point for themselves or they won't."

Lack of precise language is where errors are allowed to creep in. The comment about "C" fails to make a distinction between "killing" and murder. So it is proposed to morally acceptable. Murder is the taking of a life wothout cause, and for you nitpickers that means without just cause. Your survival or desire to implement your agenda {the way you believe is best to survive} is not a just cause. You have no authority to make law.

Murderers cannot be murdered. Murderers can be killed. A murderer forfeits his own life by taking the life of another without just cause. Murder is a just cause for losing your own life.

If we had {or wanted} a just government, murderers would not be pretending to be normal people. They would be dead, or at the very least treated as if they were dead.

Murderers should have a funeral, and have some nice things said about them, if possible. Then everyone would only consider the things they said before they became a murderer. No more interaction at all, whether they were pushing up daisies or walking around like normal folks.

4/02/2007 09:44:00 AM  
Blogger messianicdruid said...

Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the hearts of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil.

4/02/2007 10:08:00 AM  
Blogger surrender said...

"The Disclosue Project"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCLOIcFTSlE

4/02/2007 10:12:00 AM  
Blogger ericswan said...

Mark.. I like the cut of your jibe. Sail on.

We will never see justice but we at least will know the truth.

4/02/2007 10:38:00 AM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

Its like the other day I followed a link to Pravda and was surprised how good the article was (and others were), and thought how unbelievable it would have seemed 20 or 30 years ago to believe that I would someday read Pravda and find it more believable than the Washington Post, NY Times, all U.S. media, etc.

Sniffer,

Please don't mistake my tone here, but why were you shocked, even mildly, to "someday read Pravda and find it more believable than the Washington Post, NY Times, all U.S. media, etc,"? Did you really only begin to doubt the facade on 9/12? How is that even possible? My grandma, with her 4th grade Saskachewan education, knew the papers were full of lies a hundred years ago. Everyone has always known that power corrupts; Lord Acton was not revealing a hidden truth, he was stating the obvious, making the proposition axiomatic.

So, did you like believe that Reagan won the Cold War for us and all that bullshit, too? (You do know that the whole thing was faked, right?) This might explain your complete obsession with 9/11, or, if that's too strong, your inability to see that we've been 9/11-ing our way through "history" from the very beginning. I think the whole "argument" between us was a foolish waste of time--as long as one eye's open, we might as well open all of them (yeah, there's more than just two, by some counts.) Anyway, more power to Rosie, but...entrusting her future to Al Gore (corporate whore) and then flushing it down the Bush drain because of a fully anticipated spectacle? There are better oracles, you know.

"On Saturday, November 26, 1977 at 5:10 P.M., a television news broadcast in the southern part of the United Kingdom was temporarily hijacked...
While the video portion of the newscast remained unaffected, the audio was overridden by a strange electronic voice...
The voice claimed to be an alien from outer space who called himself, "Vrillon of the Ashtar Command..."

It's quite amazing how ET sounds just like a British guy with his voice either slowed down a tad or fed through an effects device.
But after listening to Vrillon's message I couldn't help wondering exactly where IC was on that fateful night in 1977.

C'mon IC, fess up....

....or should I say Vrillon?


Okay, Richard. I will confess to harboring fantasies of pirating the airwaves as far back as 1977, with a few very small successes, even, but that Fall was the height of my acid craze. Even if I were this Vrillon person at the time, I would have no way of recalling it at the present remove of 30 years. (I could ask some better-grounded friends, if you like...it's sort of like the problem faced by Zaphod Beeblebrox trying to remember why he sabotaged his own brain, when, in fact, it was in order to keep an important secret from himself because he knew he would just ruin it if he found out too soon, if you know that story.)


Curiosity Shop Girl,

Would you mind terribly if we piggy-backed another old project that's been languishing in the shed onto this one? I mean, as long as we're all together there, and we're focused on the realization that no meaningful change will occur, politically, environmentally, socially, etc, until every human on the planet has the same value and rights (civil, economic, health, political), there will continue to exist the cycles of overpopulation, resource mis-management and warfare as a means of social control...well, that's the long-sought focus for the Be-In, right Shrub?


Curiosity Shop Girl, you have to run right out and steal Kim Stanley Robinson's Sixty Days and Counting (nevermind if you haven't read the first two books in the series--it's this last one that sets the proposition above in stone, explaining in detail why this is so.) Once you understand why this is true, everything else is lollygagging.

On another critical note, I just came into possession of some extremely vital information regarding the disappearance of the bees and am awaiting permission to publicize it--you in?

Btw, what's the numerological significance of "five minutes of silence at 1 p.m. your local time on May 13, 2007?" Among the many reasons I ask is that if the times are staggered, the consciousness connecting thing is right out the window. I realize that getting the grannies to go out to the park at some weird hour might present some sort of logistical challenge, but then again, it might just add another layer of importance, too. We have these "night out" events that are sponsored by the local just say no vigilantes ("yes, please" is more polite, I think), and there's always the all-night prayer vigil/midnight mass kind of thing to fall back on...Well, you think on it and thanks for the notice.

4/02/2007 11:55:00 AM  
Blogger Shrubageddon said...

Richard:

Great stuff, once again. Essentially what you're saying is that changing human behavior is like getting a dog to refrain from licking its crotch. Fat chance. We do what's easiest....not what's best for us...and the 10% who wish to manipulate the 80% for destructive means know this and exploit it for all its worth.

The 10% who see this ruse and try to speak out against it, or change it, are so fragmented and lacking in any solidarity, not to mention what they suggest as a solution doesn't appeal to their intended audience, meaning the 80%, since it requires the exercise of the loftier parts of the brain than just the Reptilian Stem.

A question for you, Curiosity Shop. What happens to Palestinian Grandmother's when they oull a stunt like this.....that's right, they're murdered by Israeli Soldiers and people like Professor Pan do their best to label Alice as an anti-semite in her attempts to call attention to the extent of the murder.

Let me ask you, Curiosity Shop and IC, since you are both avowed hippies. Ar either of you Vegetarians? If not, perhaps you should consider it considering meat eating's impact on the environment. I'm not a vegetarian, but my wife and I are seriously considering it... for reasons such as the one provided in the following article.

Here's the link.


President Herbert Hoover promised "a chicken in every pot and a car in every garage." With warnings about global warming reaching feverish levels, many are having second thoughts about all those cars. It seems they should instead be worrying about the chickens.

Last month, the United Nations published a report on livestock and the environment with a stunning conclusion: "The livestock sector emerges as one of the top two or three most significant contributors to the most serious environmental problems, at every scale from local to global." It turns out that raising animals for food is a primary cause of land degradation, air pollution, water shortage, water pollution, loss of biodiversity, and not least of all, global warming.

That's right, global warming. You've probably heard the story: Emissions of greenhouse gases like carbon dioxide are changing our climate, and scientists warn of more extreme weather, coastal flooding, spreading disease, and mass extinctions. It seems that when you step outside and wonder what happened to winter, you might want to think about what you had for dinner last night. The U.N. report says almost a fifth of global warming emissions come from livestock (i.e., those chickens Hoover was talking about, plus pigs, cattle, and others) -- that's more emissions than from all of the world's transportation combined.

For a decade now, the image of Leonardo DiCaprio cruising in his hybrid Toyota Prius has defined the gold standard for environmentalism. These gas-sipping vehicles became a veritable symbol of the consumers' power to strike a blow against global warming. Just think: a car that could cut your vehicle emissions in half -- in a country responsible for 25% of the world's total greenhouse gas emissions. Federal fuel economy standards languished in Congress, and average vehicle mileage dropped to its lowest level in decades, but the Prius showed people that another way is possible. Toyota could not import the cars fast enough to meet demand.

Last year researchers at the University of Chicago took the Prius down a peg when they turned their attention to another gas guzzling consumer purchase. They noted that feeding animals for meat, dairy, and egg production requires growing some ten times as much crops as we'd need if we just ate pasta primavera, faux chicken nuggets, and other plant foods. On top of that, we have to transport the animals to slaughterhouses, slaughter them, refrigerate their carcasses, and distribute their flesh all across the country. Producing a calorie of meat protein means burning more than ten times as much fossil fuels -- and spewing more than ten times as much heat-trapping carbon dioxide -- as does a calorie of plant protein. The researchers found that, when it's all added up, the average American does more to reduce global warming emissions by going vegetarian than by switching to a Prius.

According to the UN report, it gets even worse when we include the vast quantities of land needed to give us our steak and pork chops. Animal agriculture takes up an incredible 70% of all agricultural land, and 30% of the total land surface of the planet. As a result, farmed animals are probably the biggest cause of slashing and burning the world's forests. Today, 70% of former Amazon rainforest is used for pastureland, and feed crops cover much of the remainder. These forests serve as "sinks," absorbing carbon dioxide from the air, and burning these forests releases all the stored carbon dioxide, quantities that exceed by far the fossil fuel emission of animal agriculture.

As if that wasn't bad enough, the real kicker comes when looking at gases besides carbon dioxide -- gases like methane and nitrous oxide, enormously effective greenhouse gases with 23 and 296 times the warming power of carbon dioxide, respectively. If carbon dioxide is responsible for about one-half of human-related greenhouse gas warming since the industrial revolution, methane and nitrous oxide are responsible for another one-third. These super-strong gases come primarily from farmed animals' digestive processes, and from their manure. In fact, while animal agriculture accounts for 9% of our carbon dioxide emissions, it emits 37% of our methane, and a whopping 65% of our nitrous oxide.

It's a little hard to take in when thinking of a small chick hatching from her fragile egg. How can an animal, so seemingly insignificant against the vastness of the earth, give off so much greenhouse gas as to change the global climate? The answer is in their sheer numbers. The United States alone slaughters more than 10 billion land animals every year, all to sustain a meat-ravenous culture that can barely conceive of a time not long ago when "a chicken in every pot" was considered a luxury. Land animals raised for food make up a staggering 20% of the entire land animal biomass of the earth. We are eating our planet to death. What we're seeing is just the beginning, too. Meat consumption has increased five-fold in the past fifty years, and is expected to double again in the next fifty.

It sounds like a lot of bad news, but in fact it's quite the opposite. It means we have a powerful new weapon to use in addressing the most serious environmental crisis ever to face humanity. The Prius was an important step forward, but how often are people in the market for a new car? Now that we know a greener diet is even more effective than a greener car, we can make a difference at every single meal, simply by leaving the animals off of our plates. Who would have thought: what's good for our health is also good for the health of the planet!

Going veg provides more bang for your buck than driving a Prius. Plus, that bang comes a lot faster. The Prius cuts emissions of carbon dioxide, which spreads its warming effect slowly over a century. A big chunk of the problem with farmed animals, on the other hand, is methane, a gas which cycles out of the atmosphere in just a decade. That means less meat consumption quickly translates into a cooler planet.

Not just a cooler planet, also a cleaner one. Animal agriculture accounts for most of the water consumed in this country, emits two-thirds of the world's acid-rain-causing ammonia, and it the world's largest source of water pollution -- killing entire river and marine ecosystems, destroying coral reefs, and of course, making people sick. Try to imagine the prodigious volumes of manure churned out by modern American farms: 5 million tons a day, more than a hundred times that of the human population, and far more than our land can possibly absorb. The acres and acres of cesspools stretching over much of our countryside, polluting the air and contaminating our water, make the Exxon Valdez oil spill look minor in comparison. All of which we can fix surprisingly easily, just by putting down our chicken wings and reaching for a veggie burger.

Doing so has never been easier. Recent years have seen an explosion of environmentally-friendly vegetarian foods. Even chains like Ruby Tuesday, Johnny Rockets, and Burger King offer delicious veggie burgers and supermarket refrigerators are lined with heart-healthy creamy soymilk and tasty veggie deli slices. Vegetarian foods have become staples at environmental gatherings, and garnered celebrity advocates like Bill Maher, Alec Baldwin, Paul McCartney, and of course Leonardo DiCaprio. Just as the Prius showed us that we each have in our hands the power to make a difference against a problem that endangers the future of humanity, going vegetarian gives us a new way to dramatically reduce our dangerous emissions that is even more effective, easier to do, more accessible to everyone and certainly goes better with french fries.

Ever-rising temperatures, melting ice caps, spreading tropical diseases, stronger hurricanes ... So, what are you do doing for dinner tonight? Check out www.VegCooking.com for great ideas, free recipes, meal plans, and more! Check out the environmental section of www.GoVeg.com for a lot more information about the harmful effect of meat-eating on the environment.

4/02/2007 01:34:00 PM  
Blogger just_another_dick said...

Actually Shrub, I have no idea about what I meant. It all seemed much funnier at 2 in the morning after a weekend of little sleep than it does now.

Mostly I'm just tired of the whole Perils of Pauline meme that infects humanity. With we humans continually casting ourselves as the damsel in distress perpetually in need of saving.

If there is a God, He must be in a continual state of perplexed amazement at our inability to actually put into practice the tenets of a religion that so many of us swear allegience to.

"Love your neighbor as you love yourself."
"Don't murder each other"
"Don't lie, cheat & steal."

It all seems pretty simple & self explanatory but it always appears to jet right over the heads of most of the true believers.

Y'know, those 2 little words you left at my "blog" really resonated with me.
Only my version of controlled demolition would involve a few huge spliffs, a nice bottle of wine, a nice comfy chair with a good view of the action & me with my finger on the button that would demolish everything including me.
After all, it appears that a good old fashioned apocalypse is what everyone really wants so why not fulfill all those little wishes in one fell swoop instead of dragging this out through generation after generation of repetitive bullshit.

By the way, the whole "vegan" thing doesn't seem like a bad idea, just make sure the vegetables are organic. I recently read an article that described a growing group of oncologists who think that the high cancer rate can be tied to radiation poisoning from the huge amounts of chemical fertilizers that are dumped in our food supply every day.

But then again....


"And the angel of the lord came unto me, snatching me up from my place of slumber. And took me on high, and higher still until we moved to the spaces betwixt the air itself. And he brought me into a vast farmlands of our own midwest. And as we descended, cries of impending doom rose from the soil. One thousand, nay a million voices full of fear. And terror possesed me then.

And I begged, "Angel of the Lord, what are these tortured screams?" And the angel said unto me, "These are the cries of the carrots, the cries of the carrots! You see, Reverend Maynard, tomorrow is harvest day and to them it is the holocaust." And I sprang from my slumber drenched in sweat like the tears of one million terrified brothers and roared, "Hear me now, I have seen the light! They have a consciousness, they have a life, they have a soul! Damn you! Let the rabbits wear glasses! Save our brothers!" Can I get an amen? Can I get a hallelujah? Thank you Jesus.

Life feeds on life feeds on life feeds on life feeds on........

This is necessary. "

4/02/2007 02:59:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

Hey Shrub!

Quite right about that meat thing--it places an insupportable load on the biosphere and no two ways about it. In terms of my family, 2/3rds of my offspring won't touch meat at all and haven't since they were very small, while the youngest is tending the same way; my wife & I have it once a week, which is easier for me than her (you know those East Bloc Slavs--they loves their Schmaltzbrot you know, but it's all a matter of habit, and habit is formed by reiterated perception, so...things can change.)

Speaking of which, when you say, "...what they suggest as a solution doesn't appeal to their intended audience..." this might also be more a matter of perception, presentation, and the readiness of the subject to accept any potential change from what is known. Think of the reactions of even "enlightened" and "liberal" white folks to civil rights legislation--it wasn't just the neanderthalic crackers down South who went reaching for their guns & their bibles when that idea was first floated. I just read that yet another attempt at an Equal Rights Amendment is gathering steam...and its proponents doubt it'll pass any time soon. When did women finally get the vote, 1920? That certainly puts some perspective on all change, doesn't it?

Part of the fault is also doubtless with the presenters--I know I've been wasting far too much time chatting & arguing with my friends here instead of working on that slick flash macromedia presentation to help convince the hidebound that Eden awaits. This, however, doesn't mean that it's going to be all austerity, all the way--that's part of the other side's propaganda. Responsible, yes--puritanical, no friggin' way. What kind of paradise is that?

Okay, fair enough challenge, however. Here's a few visions that might strike your fancy, as Vrillon might say:

First, there's The Venus Project's Resource-Based Economy, which is the sanest economic model I've ever read and which has these very groovy saved-by-design graphics on the kind of houses, transport, landscape, etc., etc., we'll be surrounded by in this easy utopia. Remember, it's the ones who don't want it 'cuz they're doing alright the way things are who tell you utopia's a dirty word.

Then you might like to have a look at Gardner's It Takes a Giant Cosmos to Create Life and Mind with your after-veggie-shawarma-dinner-pipe, and just to keep it all real, maybe a little affirmation that the owners are lying when they tell us it's in our nature (yeah, the one they inculcated with their scarcity & their brutality) to be cruel and selfish.

If you're still a bit hungry in the night, you could pick up a quick cartoon to see how the swindle is perpetrated, maybe by clicking here to make the image pop up. If you need something a little deeper, maybe to explain how all those noble Nobel scientists could be "in on it," try this one.

So, okay, I'll just get back to work then. Nice chatting.

4/02/2007 03:40:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

"Deeper meaning resides in the fairy tales told to me in my childhood than in the truth that is taught by life."

--Friedrich Schiller (1759-1805)


"Everything you can imagine is real."

--Pablo Picasso (1881-1973)

4/02/2007 03:52:00 PM  
Blogger Mark said...

IC: have you ever made up a full categorized list of all the great things you have linked over the past several months dealing with sustainability and its discontents? Just a thought for a project that I think we would all like to see given the hiatus, particularly me.

4/02/2007 04:57:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

Mark,

Yes, I've actually been working on it quite a bit--you'd be amazed at the sheer quantity of stuff I've found, a good deal of which I'd quite forgotten, and that's not even taking into account the two occasions when my computers spontaneously melted down, along with a large number of files, notes, etc. Right now I'm working on classification & layout, so it makes sense and is accessible, but I've also got my fingers in some other very sticky pies at the moment.

The hottest of these has to do with the bees I mentioned earlier, but I'm still waiting on permission to launch that info (although I can provide this link, which some of you might recognize, by way of a clue.) It also involves a lot of writing in German, which takes me much longer than it used to. I was actually only ever fluent enough to melt into a crowd verbally anyway, Rechtschreibung being notoriously difficult, even among many Germans, and even that was long ago.

All other excuses being exhausted (aside from being helplessly drawn into this moth-flame), I promise to start putting some of it up soon.

4/02/2007 05:47:00 PM  
Blogger ericswan said...

IC and other interested organic vegetarian gardeners.

http://www.zeolite-products.com/documents/Using%20Zeolites%20in%20Agriculture.pdf

A couple of bee stories for you.

Aristotle based his book "The Republic" on his study of bees.

When a bee comes back from a rich food source, he squirrels around in a figure eight to indicate the direction of the food source. He bumps his abdomen to indicate how far.

The suggestion by one of my sources is that the growing crisis with bee population is that HAARP is messing with their ability to return to the hive. Maybe the recent joint venture by BASF and Monsanto is going to solve that problem.

4/02/2007 08:52:00 PM  
Blogger Tsoldrin said...

If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice...

... I will choose a path that's clear, I will choose Freewill.

4/03/2007 05:21:00 AM  
Blogger ericswan said...

The jig is up. Prepare to receive your BTU rations. Bush rejected Kyoto because it put the onus on big business. The propaganda war is now in full swing. We used to hear that North America produces 25% of the world's pollution (read greenhouse gas aka carbon dioxide) at the rate of 400 Tons of carbon dioxide per household per year. 911 is dead. Long live "Global Warming".


Prepare for Patriot Act Final Solution. The mind set has been thrown another loop. The "people" are causing greenhouse gas and they must be divested of their wealth to stop them. They must be divested of their freedom to stop them. They must be divested of free speech to stop them.

It's already too late to point out that the glaciers on Mars are melting that huge electro-magnetic effects are entering the solar system from deep space and particularily noticeable in the last 3 days. No, global warming is the fault of North Americans who consume more and pollute more than any other on the planet.

We must fight raising minimum wage and allow police intervention into any homes using more than their share of electricity. (They prolly have a grow op and we shall fight competition (corruption) at every turn.


And if that doesn't work, we will open the prison camps and put these people to work in a more energy efficient manner than they do now. No more plunking away at their laptops. No more driving to and from work or the mall. We will have all their needs met in the work camps.

4/03/2007 08:45:00 AM  
Blogger Shrubageddon said...

Eric,

So long as they continue to air American Idol and CSI, then they could pull the Work Camp thing off without a hitch....oh, and don't forget the Superbowl, Final Four and NASCAR.

They can rename CSI, CSI - Work Camp, versus CSI - Miami.

For those of us who don't want to go to the Work Camps there's always Orgonite (not to be confused with Zeolytle). ;-)

Richard,

The following lyrics from Emerson, Lake and Palmer are just for you.

Welcome back, my friends
to the show that never ends.
We're so glad you could attend!
Come inside! Come inside!

There behind a glass
stands a real blade of grass
be careful as you pass.
Move along! Move along!

Come inside, the show's about to start
guaranteed to blow your head apart
Rest assured you'll get your money's worth
The greatest show in Heaven, Hell, or Earth

You've got to see the show, it's a dynamo.
You've got to see the show, it's rock and roll

Right before your eyes,
We'll pull laughter from the skies
And he laughs until he cries,
then he dies, then he dies

Soon the Gypsy Queen
in a glaze of Vaseline
Will perform on guillotine
What a scene! What a scene!
Next upon the stand
will you please extend a hand
to Alexander's Ragtime Band
Dixieland, Dixieland

Roll up! Roll up! Roll up!
See the show!

Performing on a stool
we've a sight to make you drool
Seven virgins and a mule
Keep it cool. Keep it cool.
We would like it to be known
the exhibits that were shown
were exclusively our own,
All our own. All our own.

Come and see the show!
Come and see the show!
Come and see the show!
See the show!

See the shoooowwwwwww!


I hate to rain on your parade....but that button you want to push....it could never be...because it's the show that never ends....right??? But what a show it is!!!!

4/03/2007 12:06:00 PM  
Blogger just_another_dick said...

"I hate to rain on your parade"

Too late Shrub, I've already had my parade rained on today. Accompanied my older brother to pick up his daughter at his estranged wife's house. Recently the wife had her stomach stapled because she was approaching the size of a small asteroid & she just didn't have the will power to keep a fork out of her mouth for longer than 3 minutes. After the operation there were many complications such as coma & bleeding, etc.
She was insisting that the only reason she survived her ordeal was because her prayer group forced their way into the ICU & "encircled her with prayer."

So I asked her why she bothered with the $120,000 hospital stay to begin with. Couldn't she just have her prayer group "encircle her with prayer" so that God could just melt the pounds off of her.

She began shrieking, "You're just like your brother. A hell-bound Satan worshipper."

She then launched into a really unintentionally funny stand-up routine where she explained that the Earth was only 6,000 years old & dinosaurs co-existed with man even though Satanic science says otherwise, & all the dinosaurs were on Noah's Ark & the fossils were just planted there by God to test our faith & anyone who says otherwise, like me, will burn in hell for all eternity.

By this time I was laughing so hard tears were literally streaming down my face.

She then said, "Well, Mr. Funnyman, when you're roasting in Hell I bet you won't be laughing so hard then."

She then said she would have her prayer group pray for me as well as my brother because we are obviously under Satan's influence.

Not wanting to leave things totally hopeless for the psychotic asteroid, I said, "Buck up Barb, if I spend the next 10 or 15 years doing nothing but sniffing glue, I might be able to kill enough brain cells so that your dunderheaded Biblical bullshit might actually start making sense. So don't give up hope just yet. "

So you see Shrub, my parade's already been rained on with hot fire & brimstone. Your ELP song feels cool & refreshing in comparison.

Sorry.

4/03/2007 03:46:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

Well, lads & lasses, big things are afoot (and no, I don't mean that feet are big things, although they certainly sometimes are.) I realize that I've always been something of an anamoly here at RI, since I'm far more interested in building a better world than detailing the countless ways in which this one is lacking.

Still, much of my sermon has been well-received here, and many of you seem to be on the same wavelength as I am--you know who you are. Thanks. Even those few who have shown me a thinly (or not at all) disguised contempt & hatred have acknowledged that my path is a true path (hey, Mojo!) Now it seems that things are finally starting to happen in my little quest, but strangely enough, just when the message is starting to resonate and the sympathetic vibrations are building, a new diversion has crossed my path.

The Worrisome Case of the Disappearing Bees.

But before I address this most dire subject, let me recount what's been happening behind the scenes. As many of you know, my 30 second sound-byte has been that the crises we face are artificial, engineered even, and that the solutions are at hand. We have the technology, the means and the will to rebuild the world, without oil and its politics, without economic disparity and environmental degradation.

I received an email this morning that my buddy Big Gav had finally written his long-awaited piece on green architecture and I was astounded to find myself quoted at such length and to such effect. The post is from Monday, April 02, 2007 (Bright Green Buildings And Dark Green Buildings) and the section that deals with my stuff begins about a third of the way down with this paraphrasing of the recent statement from the UN:

A new report from the UN (pdf) points out that constructing energy efficient buildings is the most effective way of mitigating global warming.

From there, Big Gav goes on to survey the field in a most thorough, even-handed manner. He couldn't cover all of it in a single blog post--many books have been written on it--but he did do justice to the ideas and he even gave the importance of green architecture the necessary social context, that this movement is a doorway for both the long overdue acknowledgement that social justice & equal rights for all humans (yes, even women and poor, brown-skinned children) is a prerequisite for sustainable human existence. He even quoted that Kim Stanley Robinson article I was talking about.

I can't tell you all how gratifying it was to see all this (and to learn that this post was seen by a great many influential persons in the movement), but the weird thing is that I'm so caught up in this other, bee thing that I don't really even have the time to respond properly to the the sudden interest that has been generated in my biggest project. Worse yet, I've promised not to reveal what I know until my main source is ready to go public.

That said, I am free to say that ericswan might be on the right track with some of his suggestions about the cause(s) of the bee disaster, for disaster it is. Einstein's once obscure observation has come back to haunt us, with a vengeance:

"If the bee disappeared off the surface of the globe then man would only have four years of life left. No more bees, no more pollination, no more plants, no more animals, no more man."

For a short overview of the situation, try this article from Gunther Latsch, which begins with the question, "Are GM Crops Killing Bees?" At this point, it looks bloody well likely, except that there's more to the story. Quite unconnected to my mysterious source, I'm thinking that there are several, if not many elements that are contributing to this crisis. I am not a big fan of the mono-causal explanation of complex issues mode of thinking (bloody self-serving, single-minded mechanistic deterministism, as far as I'm concerned.) Also, there are some parapolitical dimensions to this that we'd really need someone like...oh, yeah. He's on hiatus.

So, I'm putting out this appeal: any more speculations, like ericswan's HAARP theory? I don't care how off the wall it might look, I need to investigate all these possibilities for my friend, so he can get on with what he's doing.


On to sunnier subjects.

Tsoldrin,

Thanks for that Freewill link. My one and only ET experience occurred after a Rush concert that my band of merry pranksters piled into the bus to see in 1978. It was at the end of a long tour (for Rush and for us) and it took place in a weird area of very dramatic glacial landforms. The concert itself was in a kettle, or maybe it was a moraine, or a drum...anyway, it was this scalloped, natural ampitheater formed by glaciers on their way back up to Canada, 10,000 years before Rush traced the same path.

I've never spoken (publicly) about this incident because there were very large quantities of psychotropic agents involved, which tends to question the credibility of the reporting, but the thing is that we all shared the same hallucination--if that's what it was--which is itself a strange occurrence. We weren't even all ingesting the same substances, so...

It all started after the concert was over. I was relieved of my driving duties (pupils too large for safety) by one of my mates, a very peculiar-looking, silver-haired person who very much matches the classic description of one of thoise "Nordic" aliens, except that I'd known him my whole life. As we were driving back to the camp where we'd set up our base of operations earlier, my Vrillon-friend said, quite eerily, "Now I'm picking up the signal."

At the time, I thought he was referring to the chemicals, which had thus far failed to have any effect on him. That would have been bad enough. But when we got back to our camp (also full of those odd glacial formations), a freak dry thunderstorm broke out. Well, it rained a little, actually, but not much, while the sky fireworks were absolutely unmatched in the whole of my experience.

Naturally, we decided to go out and play in the lightning. Just to make things even spookier, we spread out over the uneven, unpredictable terrain. A few minutes later, the first screams started. Running toward the sound, which was difficult, as I was somewhat "impaired" and the frequent lightning was acting like a sort of cosmic strobe light and the thunder drowned out most of it, I finally arrived at a small valley of sorts, where I found one the psychonauts on his knees, pointing to some thing very strange indeed.

What I saw, and which everyone else later described in perfectly matching detail, was the damnedest thing I've ever seen. From many of the small, stunted oaks and young pine trees covering the sides of the valley, vaguely humanoid shapes seemed to detach themselves and then walk toward us. Dark shapes, glowing green, classicly-slanted eyes. They were not, however, small, like those Greys about which we hear so much these days. They were much bigger than we were.

Half the group wanted to bolt, immediately, while the other half, especially the main "victim," the guy on his knees, couldn't seem to move at all. Crisis and indecision, as no one wanted to leave anyone behind.

Finally, the silver-haired prankster broke the tableau by simply throwing our frozen friend over his shoulder and jogging away, back to camp, as if he weighed nothing at all. (He was actually a rather fat hippie, which makes it all the stranger.)

About ten minutes after we got back to camp, a blazing, pulsating light-thing rose from the area where all this happened and shot up and away, impervious to all the lightning...which stopped altogether shortly thereafter.

I've lost touch with most of those guys over the years, but not all. The hefty hippie was Sid Barrett-ed by the experience, though, and never really regained his old personality. (He was the singer in our band and had to be replaced after a while, which was the beginning of the end of that group of friends.)

There's more to the story, including some stuff that has to do with Rush, but I've bent enough ears here.

That "dryers tour" in the video was awesome, Tsoldrin--first time I'd seen them in many, many years. Here's some eye, ear & brain candy in return.

4/03/2007 03:52:00 PM  
Blogger Shrubageddon said...

By this time I was laughing so hard tears were literally streaming down my face.

You're not the only one....you have me in stitches....my colleagues think I have lost my mind I'm laughing so hard.

You're going to get me fired if you keep it up.

A small asteroid....I love it, I love it, I love it, I love it, I love it....sorry...couldn't resist the Blueberry Johnson impression.

4/03/2007 04:18:00 PM  
Blogger Mark said...

IC and the gestalt were focusing on bees, or rather their sudden dieoff all over the USA:

"The Worrisome Case of the Disappearing Bees.

For a short overview of the situation, try this article from Gunther Latsch, which begins with the question, "Are GM Crops Killing Bees?" At this point, it looks bloody well likely, except that there's more to the story. [Yep.]
Quite unconnected to my mysterious source, I'm thinking that there are several, if not many elements that are contributing to this crisis. I am not a big fan of the mono-causal explanation of complex issues mode of thinking (bloody self-serving, single-minded mechanistic deterministism, as far as I'm concerned.) Also, there are some parapolitical dimensions....

So, I'm putting out this appeal: any more speculations, like ericswan's HAARP theory? I don't care how off the wall it might look, I need to investigate all these possibilities for my friend, so he can get on with what he's doing."


I posted something "biostate" on the bee dieoff a month ago here.

It might be the planet's way of saying Chicken Payback so we should listen to the bees (see link, since we're having a musical "Jeff Intermission").

Strange this active denial (it certainly isn't disbelief) of ecological economics. It's supply-side criminality at this stage that they hope to ignore ecological bases of everything when it comes down to their short term money making--when it certainly would make long term financial sense to change. Though we have embedded raw material regimes keeping material solutions and alternatives out, as well as in many cases, ignorance that there are alternatives. All sort of "commodity reform" is required amongst a whole lot else that I get into elsewhere under 'commodity ecology.'

As for bees being HAARPed, well that's an interesting idea. If you start to see bees flying in wavelet formation in the sky with little electrical bolts shooting off them like the cloud armies that the U.S. Military has created globally, take a picture and let us know.

The electrophilic 10 micron barium and aluminum oxide dust seeding involved in HAARP experiments of global weather control and 3D radar imagery enhancement are toxic enough to life, without considering the electromagnetism as well.

Then you have weakened bee colonies, which I would argue could be considered a keystone species in many ecologies.

"A keystone species is a species that has a disproportionate effect on its environment relative to its abundance. Such an organism plays a role in its ecosystem that is analogous to the role of a keystone in an arch. While the keystone feels the least pressure of any of the stones in an arch, the arch still collapses without it. Similarly, an ecosystem may experience a dramatic shift if a keystone species is removed, even though that species was a small part of the ecosystem by measures of biomass or productivity. It has become a very popular concept in conservation biology."

Bee dieoff as well as general bee weakness noted could cause huge quick alterations like hornets killing them off even more rapidly, etc., like this:

(not for the faint of heart:)

30 hornets vs. 30,000 bees (4:18)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDSf3Kshq1M

4/03/2007 05:34:00 PM  
Blogger Mark said...

You might even see the move to introduce Japanese honeybees everywhere because of this: Japanese honeybees can defend themselves better from hornets though hardly I'm sure from the same ecological pollution:

More Bee Payback: Japanese Bees Learn to "Roast" Their Hornet Enemies (2:41)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwYysvPGWjk&mode=related&search=

4/03/2007 05:49:00 PM  
Blogger Mark said...

This one has the clearer comparison, as well as more detail on the predator/prey balance between honeybees and hornets that is probably about to go serious awry all over North America because of this European/American honeybee dieoff:

Japanese Honeybees Swarm Tactic vs. European "Queue Up and Die" Tactic (5:53)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtFVQe4JRmA&NR=1

4/03/2007 06:06:00 PM  
Blogger Vemrion said...

I might've missed it in an earlier thread, but I just found out that E. Howard Hunt basically confessed to being a part of the JFK assassination team on his deathbed.

My thoughts.

4/03/2007 08:06:00 PM  
Blogger #1 Sniffer said...

just another dick said: “...Recently the wife [his brother’s] had her stomach stapled because she was approaching the size of a small asteroid & she just didn't have the will power to keep a fork out of her mouth for longer than 3 minutes. After the operation there were many complications such as coma & bleeding, etc. She was insisting that the only reason she survived her ordeal was because her prayer group forced their way into the ICU & "encircled her with prayer."…”She began shrieking, "You're just like your brother. A hell-bound Satan worshipper." She then launched into a really unintentionally funny stand-up routine where she explained that the Earth was only 6,000 years old & dinosaurs co-existed with man even though Satanic science says otherwise, & all the dinosaurs were on Noah's Ark & the fossils were just planted there by God to test our faith & anyone who says otherwise, like me, will burn in hell for all eternity. By this time I was laughing so hard tears were literally streaming down my face.”

This partial quote is quite instructive of it’s writer, who while he appears intelligent, writes well, but in summary betrays his rot inside.

For people who wonder who among us could participate in events like 911, I say it is a decensitization of people from the suffering of others, that allows them to cheapen human life so much that in the right situation and under the right incentives they could be used to kill it. I'm of course not implying any personal connections here of ja.dick, just observing that the obvious state of mind his post reveals shows some instructive parallels as to "how" people could be led to do this.

My point is that he seems to really enjoy someone else’s, a family member’s, suffering, so much, and brags about how he makes that suffering worse, that he’ll joke about it openly to others. Sick stuff.

And it was about a miserable recently hospitalized woman, his own sister in law. Why does he laugh at her? Because she calls him a “Satanist worshipper like his brother” (her own husband), because she believes in false history and is obese.

I don’t believe in Satan per se, but I think at the risk of oversimplifying it, as used in this context it’s a Christian concept to scare sheeple, that ja.dick describes she held.

But when I hear that term being used in that manner by someone in pain, I know what it means. It means she, a weak woman, accuses you ja.dick of being evil.

I find it astounding that any sister in law would call her brother in law and husband satanic, but you admit she says it about you and her own husband (your brother, and maybe it “unintentionally” as you put it about something she missed, says something about the type of family you’re from when you say it), and it doesn’t seem to bother you at all.

It also shows ja.dick you’re missing a point or two yourself. By telling us this story and how funny you think it is, you’re really exposing who you are, and that I think has a bearing on the substance of comments you may make, not that you delve into too much substance.

Maybe RI is a good-guy/bad-guy 911 disinfo blog, with Jeff being the good guy, and guys like you being the bad guy, popping up just at the right times (like after Mark posts about 911), not to refute any good arguments with any facts, but to repulse and disgust people away from seeing them. I have no proof of this, it’s just a little conspiracy theory I have.

If you’re so tough, why don’t you have a talk with someone like physics professor Stephen Jones about 911 and then see if you can make jokes showing how smart you are and how stupid he is. It would impress as long as you could pull it off. But I don’t expect it as it appears your MO is to prey on the weak because you enjoy that too much to ever use your talents on bigger things.

The real joke’s on you ja.dick. Your sister-in-law, weak, unsophisticated, overweight and all, by her humble words that you quoted, exposed who you really are.

Funny how you know the earth is over 6000 years old and she doesn’t, yet she still kicked your butt without you even realizing it! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!! (oh man let me catch my breath).

4/03/2007 09:34:00 PM  
Blogger ericswan said...

Maybe Sniffer you could take the time to check out the blueprints and the findings for the North Tower that I mentioned above.

www.wtc.7.net

The columns changed from top to bottom.

IC.. Somewhere way up this thread or back a couple, Mojo used the handle beesknees. I asked him if he got it from one of my blogs as I had posted a story with that title 6 weeks before he noticed the bee story. There is a link to my blog with that name and is where I got the impression that HAARP was causing bees a problem.

On yet another tangent, and another of my blogs, Monsanto/BASF have formed a joint venture. Here is a bit of spec for you. I think they are planning to market seed that grows in the aluminum, barium no pollination allowed world seed (food) monopoly. If you can't find your own press release, go to my blog and read it there.

The part where they will dominate the food (through seed) market worldwide is written between the lines. Ask yourself, what is BASF bringing to the party.

This is the chemtrail/HARRP world with no bees or sun for that matter.

4/03/2007 10:24:00 PM  
Blogger ericswan said...

Shall Know Them By Their Fruits

Saturday, March 31, 2007
Chemtrails R Us
0 comments - Click for Blog
BASF and Monsanto in Terrifying Alliance March 25th, 2007
BASF, a descendant of the Third Reich’s extermination industries, is teaming up with Monsanto to put pHood on your belly, biofuel in your SUV.
Have a nice day.
Via: STLtoday:
Monsanto Co. and BASF AG, a German competitor, on Wednesday promised to work together to deliver higher-yielding crops to meet increasing global demand.
The companies announced a $1.5 billion research and development collaboration that, over a decade or more, could deliver hundreds of varieties of genetically modified corn, soybeans, cotton and canola.

A unit of BASF uses computers and robotics to measure more than 1,000 important chemicals that plants produce. It can track changes in the chemicals to see how a plant functions differently with the addition or subtraction of a particular gene. And it can do so quickly on many plant samples, said Peter Oakley, a member of BASF’s Board of Executive Directors responsible for Agriculture, Health and Nutrition.
The company has compiled more than 1.5 million of these profiles for more than 35,000 genes. The resulting “genetic library” is a searchable database for researchers, he said.
The next important piece of the puzzle is a BASF Plant Science unit that rapidly measures about 20 performance characteristics in plant samples grown with promising genetic modifications. BASF can test 100,000 plants a year using this automated technology and those results, too, wind up in the database.
As a result, researchers can quickly find and characterize useful traits and prioritize their development, Oakley said.
With this technology, Monsanto “has just connected a firehose to our pipeline,” Grant said. He promised product development “more, better, faster.”

Europe’s concern over global warming and demand for renewable fuels from plant sources could outweigh apprehension about biotech crops, said Christine Bruhn, director of the Center for Consumer Research at the University of California-Davis. “If the benefits are appealing, the people in surveys say they would consider biotech crops,” she said.
If the world is to produce enough crops to feed people and livestock, while providing corn for ethanol and soybeans for biodiesel, farmers will need high-yielding biotech crops, the companies said.
“This collaboration brings something to the table that European farmers need just as much as American farmers, and that’s yield increases,” Oakley said. “It will become very, very difficult long term for European farmers to remain competitive without access to these technologies. … It’s a door opener in Europe.”
Fraley called yield “the Holy Grail of agricultural research — in part, because it has historically been one of the most complex characteristics to dissect scientifically. Today, we have the tools to tackle that opportunity,” Fraley said.
The benefits could extend around the world, Grant said.
“Whether you’re in Schleswig-Holstein or Bangalore, the real dilemma in the next decade is going to be how do you grow more with less,” he said. “I think it’s going to be the challenge for the planet.”

4/03/2007 10:26:00 PM  
Blogger just_another_dick said...

Gee sniffs, I'm glad I demonstrated my dick-ness for you so well.

While you're sniffling for my poor beleagured sister-in-law you can shed a tear for my niece as this psycho-bitch from Hell fucks up her head even more than she already has. &, while you're in such a tearful mood, force out some water for her other daughter by another man who, when she was 13, allowed her 22 year old boyfriend to live with them & sleep in the same bed as the 13 year old because she just knew they weren't going to have sex. She stuck to this blitheringly idiotic view right up until the pregnancy test went a bit askew. She then spirited the little angel off to the nearest abortion clinic for a little scrap & suck.

Since she let this 22 year old piece of shit also babysit my, at the time, 7 year old niece, he was, most likely, upstairs pronging the 13 year old while the 7 year old sat downstairs watching Blue's Clues.

If the fat fucking cunt wouldn't spend so much money stuffing her yap & chain smoking 3 packs of cigarettes a day maybe she'd be able to feed my neice a bit more than Ramen noodles & my brother wouldn't have to continually truck over fruits & vegetables .

"Unsophisticated?" Do you always just make shit up to illustrate your point? I get the feeling one photo of your head would probably illustrate your biggest & best point quite nicely. For yo info joe, she be college edumacated & pulls down about 60 grand a year.

Ah, but now she's found "da Lord."

Well shut my mouth & call me stinky.

personally, I was pulling for the bitch's God encounter to be a bit more up close & personal.

Curses, foiled by a prayer group.

But you're completely right about one thing, people like me made 911 possible.
Although, if I had my way, it would be a million 911s going off simultaneously.
If, for no other reason, than to see the look of dumbfounded amazement on your little weeping sniffler.

So sniff old pal, in an effort to maintain my rep as the repulsive destraction detering the iddle bitty truth seekers here at RI-land, why don't you stop by & take a big sniff of this:

http://www.alagsa.com/Patient_Images/Bad_Hemorrhoid.jpg

4/03/2007 11:42:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

The one thing they weren't planning on in their state-of-the-art, 21st century Corporate Nazi boardroom, was that one of the "good Germans" in their employ would acquire a conscience and leak the details of their "success."

It's only one aspect of this complicated puzzle, but the toxin placed in the genetically modified seeds to kill the "bad bugs" was only supposed to react with specific enzymes that only those undesirable elements of nature possessed. This was their fatal mistake, and it's the same one the superior beings in this world always make: hubris.

They thought that they understood nature so well with their airtight, mono-causal model that nothing could stand in the way of their latest thousand year Reich...I hate to borrow metaphors from Michael Chrichton, an unprincipled hack who resorts to despicable means to please his masters, but you do all know what happened in Jurassic Park when they were so confident that they had Nature under control, right?

Form order, chaos. Out of chaos, order.

It turns out in the case of GM crops that some of the other variables which they hadn't taken into account (so certain they were of their mastery of Nature) caused the bees to develop the enzyme that they couldn't possibly develop.

Other Threads Converging.

The recent scandal with the "tainted" pet foods? First we're told it was rat poison that somehow got into the pet food. Then, that one not buying them enough credulity, they tell us it happened because the pet foods were "made in China." (You know how irresponsible those commie/capitalists are, right?) Now it's slowly emerging, not through the channels they own, which is all of them, but through that disinfo-riddled, not-to-be-trusted Internet that it was from a strange, thoroughly unexpected mutation in genetically-modified gluten. Gluten, corn syrup...the same shit they put in our food.

There's blood on their hands again, and this time they're fucked. Public sentiment is still 95% anti GM foods in Europe. The EU is still so pissed off about Kyoto, Iraq and half a dozen other reactionary American policies that they're going to go incandescent over this one.

Now just imagine how this is going to go over, right when the EU is being warned by Russia & China to back off from Iran at the same time that the US is pressuring them to fall in line on Tonkin II (Persian Gulf Edition). I know this is a terrible thing for all of us--the disappearance of the bees--but the timing of it is going to hurt BushCo very, very badly. The fallout is going to hit all those Monsanto-sponsored "Democrats" too.

The good news in all this is that responsible scientists, unlike the whores you might want to read about here, are already scrambling to produce enough seedstock to replace the Frankenwheat. And, the questions as to how it is that science can be corrupted, perverted, suppressed and generally put in the service of Empire (see last link and this old favorite) will finally be made public. A new, realistic understanding of how really nature works (old favorite again) is the next step.

That is, if we survive what's coming to a screen near you very soon.

(Oh, yeah. Those yield increases that the European & American farmers are told they need so badly by the guys selling the death seeds? Another lie of the believers of "market forces." Here's one alternative I introduced recently...among many out there, including Mark's bioregionalism. Look for certain stocks to start falling soon, not that you commies have any stocks to sell.)

4/04/2007 12:30:00 AM  
Blogger just_another_dick said...

More repulsive distractions:

In honor of the spine tinglingly accurate truth sniffing nose of #1 sniffer I give you these:

First, & foremost, the UFO nuts think that the 911 truth nuts are, well, nuts.A case of the pot calling the kettle black, you say?
Oops, actually that's what I say.
Sorry

http://www.ufomystic.com/wake-up-down-there/9-11-ufo-books/

# DingoDog99 Says:
April 3rd, 2007 at 12:53 am

"9-11, yep I have to admit that after that the UFO thing dropped off my radar for a few years. It only makes sense, it’s so much friggin bigger and explosive and in your face.

Lets face it, UFOs have caused how many deaths in the last hundred years? Maybe five? Thats small potatoes to the rest of the worlds problems.

What kills me is the 9-11 conspiracy theories. I have no real love for the establishment or for a strong federal government. You might even say that I believe the U.S. has done some pretty insane or questionable stuff over the years. But c’mon, 9-11 was not an inside job. If you pay attention to how demolition techs bring down a building you can easily infer how the airliners brought down those other buildings. It’s fire science 101.

… and to have Rosie O’Donnell say “it’s the first time in history fire melted steel.” just absolutely confounds me.

How do you melt steel then? Enzymes? Catlylitic plasma venting? Warp exhaust? Gimme a GAWDamn break! Forget a conservative backlash to those remarks. Why havn’t the blacksmiths, metalurgists and steel workers pointed out the simple fact. . .

typical structural steel melts at 825 deg celcius. Harrumph! Jet fuels typically burn at 550 deg celcius, now I know what you are thinking but the conspiracy theorists always leave out an important fact, combustability. Combustible materials increase the temperature of a fire. So all your materials in the high rise except for steel, concrete and gypsum (found in drywall) are considered combustible in a 550 deg fire. They will increase the temperature. Thats why the building engineers coated the steel girders with fire retardant foam.

In the WTC building there was enough materials burning at high enough temperature to cause damage to unprotected structural steel, since the impact of the aircraft blew the foam right off the girders the directly affected floors didn’t have a chance. All it takes is for one level to be comprimised. The combined weight of all the levels above it will cause the structural collapse.

Bush & Co. may not be nicest guys on the block but it’s just insane to think that we would actually perform a strategic strike on ourselves to start a war in Iraq. We already had plenty of reasons to attack Iraq. 9-11 would not have changed that reality.

Jess"

&

Bill Hancock Says:
April 3rd, 2007 at 9:45 am

"As to Jess’s comments on 9-11, I agree totally there. Popular Mechanics did a fascinating piece a while back on the silliness of the “government did it”
lunacy with regard to the technical facts of 9-11,and how the “cuckoo conspiracy club” version of what went down is rubbish. Jess’s assessment of the fire business at WTC is right there with what I’ve heard described from some knowledgeable types (and in opposition to the rantings of O’Doofus).
The cell phone calls people were frantically making from the planes themselves to their loved ones belies the crap that “the government” was doing this….these people were describing whack-job Muslims in control of their planes.
The government’s “guilt’ in 9-11 is the “guilt” that comes from bungling and bureaucratic stupidity and there’s so much of that with us every day in so many aspects of our daily lives that its hard to comprehend how some people can’t see it. The stupidity and bungling just shows up more re: 9-ll because the price tag there came so high and the event was so spectacular.
And government “shenanigans” re: 9-11?
That’s just bureaucratic business as usual; playing “CYA” so as not to get found out as being the incompetent you are. Same as with FEMA on the Gulf Coast.
What? You want to tell me Bush “MADE” Katrina in a secret lab and “unleashed” it for some incomprehensionable “malevolent”purpose?
Getouttahere!"

&, Sniff, since I've obviously regaled you with bad idea after bad idea lately, I give you this for future sniffing reference.

Tue Apr 3, 7:24 PM ET

LONDON -
"Keith Richards has acknowledged consuming a raft of illegal substances in his time, but this may top them all. In comments published Tuesday, the 63-year-old Rolling Stones guitarist said he had snorted his father's ashes mixed with cocaine.

"The strangest thing I've tried to snort? My father. I snorted my father," Richards was quoted as saying by British music magazine NME.

"He was cremated and I couldn't resist grinding him up with a little bit of blow. My dad wouldn't have cared," he said. "... It went down pretty well, and I'm still alive."

Richards' father, Bert, died in 2002, at 84


If your sainted pa ain't quite pushing up daisies yet, it's something to file away for future fun. If he has bought the farm, then there's always the shovel & bonfire route.

Happy Sniffing

(I'd type some laughter here but frankly that's even too weenie for me, ja_weiner. Go figure.)

Oh shit! I just thought of something...maybe Keef is a 911 enabler too. Now, I don't remember seeing him at the meetings, but he did do that "Sympathy For The Devil" song & all.....hmmmmm.

Ooo...ooooo.....maybe I'll get to meet him at the next meeting of 911 Enablers.org.

I must be off to find that schedule, but I promise, on a stack of thermate, that I'll stop by again to repulsively distract THE TRUTHSEEKERS from seeking THE TRUTH.

As a little teaser, I just might have those pictures of the black fly-like hairs that started growing out of my ears when I passed the 40 year old mark.

If that doesn't dissude THE TRUTHSEEKERS here from coming here to seek THE TRUTH, I might just have to throw in the towel.

4/04/2007 12:46:00 AM  
Blogger Mark said...

"If the world is to produce enough crops to feed people and livestock, while providing corn for ethanol and soybeans for biodiesel, farmers will need high-yielding biotech crops, the companies said.

Despite the hype, GM-crops are NOT generally higher yielding actually. In many cases in actual tests, they range right next to organic. Surely we remember the recent false promises of the "golden rice", the rice invented as a PR gesture, that you would have to consume tons of the stuff to make any difference in its hyped vitamin enhancement (quickly thrown together to counter publicly a critique that they were only interested in supply-side consolidation issues instead of helping the consumer.) Though as Vandana Shiva I think said, it's much easier to get vitamins from green leafy vegetables than the half ton of "golden rice."

All the rice is the world is not the problem. There's actually food glut all over the place. The issue is the lack of purchasing power for it, and only further food consolidation is only going to lead to more.

Read:

World Hunger: Twelve Myths by Frances Moore Lappe, Joseph Collins, Peter Rosset, and Luis Esparza (Paperback - Sep 24, 1998)

"In this completely revised and updated edition of the most authoritative book on world hunger, three of our foremost experts on food and agriculture expose and explode the myths that prevent us from effectively addressing the problem. Drawing on and distilling the extensive research of the Institute for Food and Development Policy (Food First), Lapp, Collins, and Rosset examine head-on the policies and politics that have kept hungry people from feeding themselves around the world, in both Third and First World countries, as well as the misconceptions that have obscured our own national, social, and humanitarian interests. Written in a straightforward, easy-to-read style, World Hunger: Twelve Myths shakes many tenaciously held beliefs; but most important, it convinces readers that by standing together with the hungry we can advance not only humanitarian interests, but our own well-being.

"World Hunger addresses problems of enormous human significance with valuable and often surprising information, much insight, sound common sense, and fundamental decency. It should become not only a book for study, but a guide to action."-Noam Chomsky, MIT

"A marvelously lucid message: the most important cause of death and disease is hunger; the remedy is food; the remedy exists. Their message swiftly demolishes the myths and powerfully arms us for the political task of ending hunger, here and throughout the world."-Dr. Barry Commoner

Frances Moore Lapp is the author of twelve books including the international bestseller, Diet for a Small Planet, and co-director of the Center for Living Democracy in Brattleboro, Vermont. In 1975, she and Joseph Collins founded the Oakland-based Institute for Food and Development Policy. Dr. Collins' many books include Food First: Beyond the Myth of Scarcity, and Aid as Obstacle: Twenty Questions About Our Foreign Aid and the Hungry (both with Lapp, as well as No Free Lunch: Food and Revolution in Cuba, and Chile's Free Market Miracle: A Second Look. An author, lecturer and consultant on international development issues, Collins makes his home in Santa Cruz, California. Peter Rosset is the Executive Director of the Institute for Food and Development Policy. Dr. Rosset's many books include A Cautionary Tale: Failed U.S. Development Policy in Central America, The Greening of the Revolution: Cuba's Experiment with Organic Agriculture, and Agroecology. Dr. Luis Esparza is a Geographer from the National Autonomous University of Mexico (UNAM)."


And GM-crops are mostly engineered to 'handle' more pesticides and scaled treatments of them instead of less. With of course the #1 herbicide owned by Monsanto as well, RoundupReady, pegged as a non-Hodgekins lymphoma inducer (mentioned in the medical journal Cancer). Didn't hear about that did ye? I've done some correlations on geographic cancer cluster of non-Hodgkins lymphomas in the USA (in the book Toward A Bioregional State), and they "strangely" are all in the heavy areas of EPA's worst herbicide runoff areas. Just a huge coincidence. Not.

They are simply out for any rationale to sell the symbolism (i.e., the lie) around the common feature of patentable/ownable life. Life as patentable is a practice that should be terminated, no pun intended. They didn't make life. They just bred a variety of it, in really a quite random way that they will like to claim they stand behind as safe, though their contracts to farmers in the fine print do no such thing and deny all culpability if anything happens. Separate worlds of selling them to the public as safe, while entirely denying responsibility for them in the contracts.

And Monsanto was hiding that report on all the rat deaths of their GM studies remember.

ecret Monsanto GM Study Exposes Health Effects

Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 01:38 PM, (978 Reads)

It has been revealed today by the U.K. newspaper the Independent that a secret Monsanto study shows unquestionable health effects as a result of rats being fed genetically modified food. http://seattle.indymedia.org/en/2005/05/246213.shtml

author: Lloyd Hart
May 22, 2005 09:22

It has been revealed today by the U.K. newspaper the Independent that a secret Monsanto study shows unquestionable health effects as a result of rats being fed genetically modified food.

Secret Monsanto GM Study Exposes Health Effects

By Lloyd Hart

It has been revealed today by the U.K. newspaper the Independent that a secret Monsanto study shows unquestionable health effects as a result of rats being fed genetically modified food. The study if fully released could vindicate an earlier study by a Dr Pusztai who's career was a effectively destroyed by an orchestrated plan to discredit Dr Pusztai hatched in British Prime Minister Tony Blair's cabinet in much the same way the plan to lie to the British public led to war in Iraq. Do we see a pattern here.

It isn't any surprise that a company like Monsanto would lie and suppress evidence concerning one of its products. Monsanto has spent the last 50 years lying to the American public and the world concerning the health effects of the active ingredient dioxin contained in 24-d a defoliant used for many years by farmers who unknowingly poisoned themselves their families the soil and drinking water causing widespread health effects, cancer and death as a result.

Is important to be reminded that the active ingredient in another Monsanto product Agent Orange was also dioxin.

Monsanto and the U.S. government lied about the effects of Agent Orange on returning Vietnam veterans, the environment in Vietnam and lastly the people that suffered most the Vietnamese.

Monsanto denials after decades of lies concerning the health and deaths of countless of people around the world should have absolutely no credibility in what could be the final fight to protect food as open source from what is steadily becoming patented private property through unsafe unregulated genetic modification.

It is important for all activists who are fighting against the proliferation of genetically modified foods that they use the facts before them as the tools that that will inevitably convinced the general public to prevent food and food source medicine from becoming wholly owned by transnational corporations.

Here are some facts.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/science_technology/story.jsp?story=640430

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/science_technology/story.jsp?story=640402

http://www.independent.co.uk/

http://dadapop.com

4/04/2007 01:11:00 AM  
Blogger CuriosityShop said...

Has anyone mentioned how GM crops were created or discovered?

By bombarding them with gamma rays and changing their DNA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma_ray
Gamma rays or gamma-ray (denoted as γ) are forms of electromagnetic radiation (EMR) or light emissions of a specific frequency produced from sub-atomic particle interaction, such as electron-positron annihilation and radioactive decay; most are generated from nuclear reactions occurring within the interstellar medium of space.

Gamma rays are generally characterized as EMR, having the highest frequency and energy, and also the shortest wavelength, within the electromagnetic radiation spectrum. Due to their high energy content, they are able to cause serious damage when absorbed by living cells.

Gamma rays are often produced alongside other forms of radiation such as alpha or beta. When a nucleus emits an α or β particle, the daughter nucleus is sometimes left in an excited state. It can then jump down to a lower level by emitting a gamma ray in much the same way that an atomic electron can jump to a lower level by emitting visible light or ultraviolet radiation.

In nuclear physics, a decay product, also known as a daughter product, daughter isotope or daughter nuclide, is a nuclide resulting from the radioactive decay of a parent isotope or precursor nuclide. The daughter product may be stable or it may decay to form a daughter product of its own. The daughter of a daughter product is sometimes called a granddaughter product.

Decay products are extremely important in understanding radioactive decay and the management of radioactive waste.

The powerful nature of gamma rays has made them useful in the sterilization of medical equipment by killing bacteria. They are also used to kill bacteria and insects in foodstuffs, particularly meat, marshmallows, pies, eggs, and vegetables, to maintain freshness.

Due to their tissue penetrating property, gamma rays/X-rays have a wide variety of medical uses such as in CT Scans and radiation therapy (see X-ray). However, as a form of ionizing radiation they have the ability to effect molecular changes, giving them the potential to cause cancer when DNA is affected.

The gamma rays are the most dangerous form of radiation emitted by a nuclear explosion because of the difficulty in stopping them. Gamma-rays are not stopped by the skin.

They can induce DNA alteration by interfering with the genetic material of the cell. DNA double-strand breaks are generally accepted to be the most biologically significant lesion by which ionizing radiation causes cancer and hereditary disease

The effects of food irradiation have been studied for over 60 years

At present, man applies to nature but half his force. He works on the world with his understanding alone. He lives in it, and masters it by a penny-wisdom; and he that works most in it, is but a half-man, and whilst his arms are strong and his digestion good, his mind is imbruted, and he is a selfish savage.

`We distrust and deny inwardly our sympathy with nature. We own and disown our relation to it, by turns. We are, like Nebuchadnezzar, dethroned, bereft of reason, and eating grass like an ox. But who can set limits to the remedial force of spirit?

from Land of the Spotted Eagle (Standing Bear)
The Lakota was a true naturist--lover of Nature. He loved the earth and all things of the earth, the attachment growing with age. The old people came literally to love the soil and they sat or reclined on the ground with a feeling of being close to a mothering power. It was good for the skin to touch the earth and the old people liked to remove their moccasins and walk with bare feet on the sacred earth. Their tipis were built upon the earth and their altars were made of earth. The birds that flew in the air came to rest upon the earth and it was the final abiding place of all things that lived and grew. The soil was soothing, strengthening, cleansing, and healing...

Wherever the Lakota went, he was with Mother Earth. No matter where he roamed by day or slept by night, he was safe with her. This thought comforted and sustained the Lakota and he was eternally filled with gratitude.

From Waken Tanka there came a great unifying life force that flowered in and through all things--the flowers of the plains, blowing winds, rocks, trees, birds, animals--and was the same force that had been breathed into the first man. Thus all things were kindred and brought together by the same Great Mystery.

Kinship with all creatures of the earth, sky, and water was a real and active principle. For the animal and bird world there existed a brotherly feeling that kept the Lakota safe among them. And so close did some of the Lakotas come to their feathered and furred friends that in true brotherhood they spoke a common tongue.

The animal had rights--the right of man's protection, the right to live, the right to multiply, the right to freedom, and the right to man's indebtedness--and in recognition of these rights the Lakota never enslaved the animal, and spared all life that was not needed for food and clothing.

This concept of life was humanizing and gave to the Lakota an abiding love. It filled his being with the joy and mystery of things; it gave him reverence for all life; it made a place for all things in the scheme of existence with equal importance to all. The Lakota could despise no creature, for all were of one blood, made by the same hand, and filled with the essence of the Great Mystery...

The old people told us to heed wa maka skan, which were the, 'moving things of the earth.' This meant, of course, the animals that lived and moved about, and the stories they told us of wa maka skan increased our interest and delight. The wolf, duck, eagle, hawk, spider, bear, and other creatures, had marvelous powers, and each one was useful and helpful to us. Then there were the warriors who lived in the sky and dashed about on spirited horses during a thunder storm, their lances clashing with the thunder and glittering with the lightning. There was wiwila, the living spirit of the spring, and the stones that flew like a bird and talked like a man. Everything was possessed of a personality, only differing with us in form. Knowledge was inherent in all things. The world was a library and its books were the stones, leaves, grass, brooks, and the birds and animals that shared, alike with us, the storms and blessings of earth. We learned to do what only the student of nature ever learns, and that was to feel beauty...Bright days and dark days were both expressions of the Great Mystery, and the Indian reveled in being close to the Big Holy. (and we called these people savages)

You don't kid yourself by eating only vegetables, either, for they, too, are alive. So the essence of life is this eating of itself! Life lives on life, and the reconciliation of the human mind and sensibilities to that fundamental fact is one of the functions of some of those very brutal rites in which the ritual consists chiefly of killing - in imitation, as it were, of that first, primordial crime, out of which arose this temporal world, in which we all participate

Joseph Campbell: To be in accord with the grand symphony that the world is, to put the harmony of our own body in accord with that harmony.

4/04/2007 08:16:00 AM  
Blogger Shrubageddon said...

Richard,

You're priceless....for everything else (including 911 Truth and UFOs), there's Mastercard.

You're such an insensitive Bastard.....and that's why I love you so much, Man!!

You could play matchmaker and hook ol Babs up with Mojo.....afterall, they both share a passion for calling their perceived enemies, Satan. Does Babs enjoy record breaking sessions of Coitus? From the sounds of it, Babs would break your crown if you engaged in any form of coitus with her....small asteroids have a propensity to do that.

Regards,

Shrubageddon

PS: Please keep it coming....it's like oxygen for me...without it, I will atrophy and perish.

Oh, and if my memory serves me correctly, Snifferoo mentioned "rope in hand" as a possible retribution for the perpetrators of 911. I thought the reference to hanging was rather curious....it's not the first thing that comes to mind for me when considering justice...afterall, there is quite a stigma attached to the act....you know...the notorious Lynch Mobs of the South, Pre and Post Reconstruction....hell, a young Black Man was lynched in downtown Mobile as late as the 70's...so "rope in hand" makes me wonder.

4/04/2007 09:32:00 AM  
Blogger galactivision said...

"I personally can't wait until Lone Ranger ET or Lone Ranger Jesus comes riding over the ridge at the last moment to save of us from our own addle pated stupidity."

This reminded me of the lyrics to Gil Scott Heron's classic tune 'B-Movie', still on-point after some 25 years...


"...The idea concerns the fact that this country wants nostalgia. They want to go back as far as they can – even if it’s only as far as last week. Not to face now or tomorrow, but to face backwards. And yesterday was the day of our cinema heroes riding to the rescue at the last possible moment. The day of the man in the white hat or the man on the white horse - or the man who always came to save America at the last moment – someone always came to save America at the last moment – especially in “B” movies. And when America found itself having a hard time facing the future, they looked for people like John Wayne. But since John Wayne was no longer available, they settled for Ronald Reagan – and it has placed us in a situation that we can only look at – like a “B” movie.
.
.
.
A theme song for saber-rallying and selling wars door-to-door. Remember, we’re looking for the closest thing we can find to John Wayne. Clichés abound like kangaroos – courtesy of some spaced out Marlin Perkins, a Reagan contemporary. Clichés like, “itchy trigger finger” and “tall in the saddle” and “riding off or on into the sunset.” Clichés like, “Get off of my planet by sundown!” More so than clichés like, “he died with his boots on.” Marine tough the man is. Bogart tough the man is. Cagney tough the man is. Hollywood tough the man is. Cheap steak tough. And Bonzo’s substantial. The ultimate in synthetic selling: A Madison Avenue masterpiece – a miracle – a cotton-candy politician…Presto! Macho!
.
.
.
Put your orders in America. And quick as Kodak your leaders duplicate with the accent being on the dupe - cause all of a sudden we have fallen prey to selective amnesia - remembering what we want to remember and forgetting what we choose to forget. All of a sudden, the man who called for a blood bath on our college campuses is supposed to be Dudley “God-damn” Do-Right?

“You go give them liberals hell Ronnie.” That was the mandate. To the new “Captain Bly” on the new ship of fools. It was doubtlessly based on his chameleon performance of the past - as a liberal democrat – as the head of the Studio Actor’s Guild. When other celluloid saviors were cringing in terror from McCarthy – Ron stood tall. It goes all the way back from Hollywood to hillbilly. From liberal to libelous, from “Bonzo” to Birch idol…born again. Civil rights, women’s rights, gay rights…it’s all wrong. Call in the cavalry to disrupt this perception of freedom gone wild. God damn it…first one wants freedom, then the whole damn world wants freedom..."

4/04/2007 10:21:00 AM  
Blogger Shrubageddon said...

Hey Richard:

Hand Barb one of Snifferoo's posts here about Controlled Demolition and see if the Small Asteroid with a Fork Fetish calls him Satan.

It would be absolutely delightful of she did....wouldn't it??

So many Satans....so little time.

4/04/2007 11:09:00 AM  
Blogger just_another_dick said...

"Does Babs enjoy record breaking sessions of Coitus?"

Didn't you mean bed breaking sessions of coitus?

Actually Shrub, I think a good dicking is probably what she needs.

Maybe sniff can roll her in flour & aim for the wet spot.

Although, given the sweaty nature of huuuuuuge thighs continually rubbing together, I bet he could just smell his/her way to the bullseye, being the #1 Sniffer & all.

An insensitive bastard? Me?

Gee shrub, here i am thinking that I'm quite adept at disguising that aspect of my personality.

Oh well, another illusion dashed on the rocks of reality.

Have a good week Shrub.
I have 5 lovely double shifts in a row approaching & I doubt I'll have much time to repulse THE TRUTHSEEKERS from seeking THE TRUTH.

& Sniff, don't miss me too much. After all, absence makes the heart grow fonder, & I know, deep inside, that you really want to love me.

4/04/2007 11:41:00 AM  
Blogger Shrubageddon said...

Oh, and ladies, if you don't like the men's only rule at Augusta Ntional Golf Club, go form your own private club, for Christ's Sake. I'm not a fan of private clubs...but neither am I going to begrudge dimwits the right to set one up if they so choose. It's their private club and they can determine their own membership. I do agree that they should not get a tax benefit via expense write-offs for entertaining at these clubs...that's bullshit.

4/04/2007 12:39:00 PM  
Blogger #1 Sniffer said...

just another dick said: “…If that doesn't dissude THE TRUTHSEEKERS here from coming here to seek THE TRUTH, I might just have to throw in the towel. “

Throw in the towel dickness, go ahead, surrender. I don’t think “truthseekers” look for 911 truth here (or they’d be in trouble), but in looking for something else they do run into the opposite of it quite often. I (and others) sniffed that out a long time ago and that was my only point, and you’re helping me make it well.

I’m peaceful in the knowledge the story about your imaginary sister-in-law is pretty good standup fiction (though I’d be peaceful either way if push came to shove).

Even assuming the scenario you painted about her and now your nieces was true for the sake of discussion, you went on to step on it again by talking in such detail about how nasty she really was to justify your earlier wicked comments. That was always going to be a lose-lose proposition and you knew it, so the deeper you dug, the deeper you found yourself.

And the beauty of this is that hole you dug got associated with your next substantive topic/message on 911 (it doesn’t need to be refuted, it refutes itself). So go ahead, keep doing that all day if you want or throw in the towel. Or come up with a new name and identity, this one ain’t workin. When truth is even slightly vigilant, nothing fake will (I know you’ll find this faith in truth humorous, being so hostile to the concept).

Yep, this j.a.dick robe is the latest of some dazzling ones you put on but none of them fits you quite right, or hits the right points. Underneath them all is the same old ugly ***** easier to sniff out than a dead rat.

Your narrative on 911 official story was hilarious. For all your ability is that the best you can do? (actually I can’t blame you, you have no good truthful facts to work with). It was labored smoke and mirrors easily refuted point by point with eyes rolled up.

And that you actually endeared yourself to Satan in the above posts I also suspect wouldn’t be appreciated by your average reader, or even Bush & Co. (which includes Democrats, at least publicly), whom you rise to defend but in a very feeble manner.

Finally thanks for that link for that photo you picked out just for me. I regret I’m too busy to see it but I’ll just take it from you the portrait does you complete justice.

4/04/2007 01:21:00 PM  
Blogger Shrubageddon said...

So, IC and Mark...are you asserting that it is definitively not the Varroa Mite that is responsible for the disappearance of the Honey Bees?

4/04/2007 04:21:00 PM  
Blogger ericswan said...

ericswan said...
We're in the middle of a bee emergency. Albert Einstein said, "If the bee disappeared off the surface of the globe, then man would only have four years left to live." A mysterious ailment called Colony Collapse Disorder is causing agricultural honeybees nationwide to abandon their hives and disappear. It's a kind of mass suicide in the bee world.

Entomologist Jerry Bromenshenk says, "Individual beekeepers are really taking a beating. A guy down in Oklahoma lost 80% of his 13,000 colonies in the last month. In Florida, there are a whole lot of people facing 40, 60 and 80 percent losses. That’s huge."

With CCD, most adult honeybees abandon a hive and disappear, abandoning the queen and a remnant of younger bees. This is unheard of, since normally a bee colony will do almost anything to protect its queen. Since the tasks done in the hive are very stratified, bees cannot survive on their own.

One of the strongest instincts that bees have is protecting and nurturing the next generation, but with CCD, the cells of young bees in the pupa stage are not covered and protected by their older sisters, probably because most of the adult bees have left. Dead adult bees aren't even found near the hive; they are just gone.

Bromenshenk says, "We don’t want to panic the beekeeper industry because we are not sure it's time to push the panic button yet, but we do know this is real, it's severe and it's widespread."

Field technician and self-professed bee lover Scott Debnam describes visits to the impacted bee yards as "spooky," and says, "Fortunately the sites I've visited have been recovering, but in Georgia I saw a lot of small colonies, a lot of uncapped brood and a lot of early-stage brood. The adults had flown the coop."

Author's Note: This disruption in the bee population is not a shock to my readers who know that fertility in all species is linked to sunspot cycles and, more so, that I share how we are facing mass starvation that will lead to mass migration, and therein lies the crisis. How do we feed the masses worldwide; it is my recommendation that we each begin to grow food in our urban as well as rural homesteads. That we construct greenhouses personally and professionally nationwide now!

Tue Feb 20, 12:04:00 AM PST

4/05/2007 08:19:00 AM  
Blogger Mark said...

Shrub writes:

So, IC and Mark...are you asserting that it is definitively not the Varroa Mite that is responsible for the disappearance of the Honey Bees?

The varroa mite occurred before. According to what ericswan posted that I was interested in tracking down, the solution then was to interbred lots of Russian Queen bees that carried more immunity to the varroa mite.

True, that recently a major varroa mite pesticide has bred an immune crop of varroa mites.

However, currently, U.S honeybees are not dying of these immune varroa mites. They are just disappearing from the hive healthy and alive, presumably unable to get back or find their way back. On this point:

As eric's post notes interestingly the introduction of Russian bees for breeding more immunity to varroa mites as the strategy additionally may have piggybacked another issue intentionally--as a parapolitical outcome of the lack of treaty agreement. The Soviets attempted to get to have everybody worldwide ban electromagnetic weather wars, back in the 1970s, according to information from Tom Bearden.

The Russians knew that the bees they were helping the Americans with to breed for more hardiness against the varroa mite was introducing simultaneously a succeptability to electromagnetic wave confusion at the same moment.

The Sorcha Faal piece that eric reposts at his blog in "The Bees Knees" is interesting information.

It took me a while to find it so I posted it as a comment to my blog's article on the bee dieoff here, with a link to eric's blog post for it as well.

If what (Eric relays in) Sorcha's argument is correct, then this bee thing may be the parapolitical fallout outcome of the lack of global ban on HAARP weather manipulation weapons that the Soviets attempted to get passed in the 1970s.

When the USA refused to cooperate, only then did the Soviets start to ramp up their military, seeing that the people then in charge of the USA, the rightwing Nixonites from the 1970s, was basically announcing that it was planning to militarily conquer them--by refusing to collectively ban such global weather war research.

In addition to linking to Sorcha/ericswans post about it, I put this at my blog as well as a comment--based on some Tom Bearden information and other things from another post elsewhere I saved:

SAID IN APRIL 1997 BY THE U.S. SECRETARY OF DEFENSE, WILLIAM COHEN: "Others [terrorists] are engaging even in an eco-type of terrorism whereby they can alter the climate, set off earthquakes, volcanoes remotely through the use of electromagnetic waves… So there are plenty of ingenious minds out there that are at work finding ways in which they can wreak terror upon other nations…It's real, and that's the reason why we have to intensify our [counterterrorism] efforts." --- Secretary of Defense William Cohen at an April 1997 counterterrorism conference sponsored by former Senator Sam Nunn. Quoted from DoD News Briefing, Secretary of Defense William S. Cohen, Q&A at the Conference on Terrorism, Weapons of Mass Destruction, and U.S. Strategy, University of Georgia, Athens, Apr. 28, 1997.

[Tom Bearden's contention is that] North America has not had "normal" weather since July 1976, and we are likely never to have "normal" weather again.

In 1975, the Soviets attempted to obtain a treaty with the rest of the world, outlawing the development of frightful new weapons of mass destruction - "more frightful than the mind of man had ever imagined", according to Brezhnev himself. Gromyko introduced the draft treaty into the 1975 session of the United Nations General Assembly. No one knew what the Soviets were referring to. Failing to obtain the treaty, [mostly because of U.S. desires to not ratify it because the US was working on the same global conquest] the Soviets in 1975-76 embarked on the greatest military buildup in history. This buildup was nothing short of a full-fledged preparation to be ready to take over the world, beginning in 1985 (the "ready" time per Brezhnev's 1972 statement at a secret Prague meeting of European Communist Party leaders). The Soviets met this scheduled goal."


Though by the 1990s, the Reagan-Bushes of the USA had collapsed their economy with ramping up other military spending here, as well as massive currency counterfeiting.

Title: Netting the Bush-Clinton Crime Family? Fitzgerald's Plamegate to Switzerland for $27.5 Trillion
Author: Symanski report, with many others
Date: 2006.04.15 09:37

Description: This is a judicious summary of a big story that should be blown wide open. Fitzgerald's Plamegate heads to Switzerland for approx. $2T stolen U.S. dollars from $27.5T belonging to U.S. Treasury?
Who can say. It does connect with the same banking account names mentioned by Wayne Madsen's (ex NSA whistleblower) sources though! Below connections click well, and despite being immense, make sense of a lot of (1) Bush-Clinton two steps particularly Hillary Clinton's connections and motives in Vince Foster's death, (2) in the CIA's "Children's (Slush) Fund" out of Wisconsin (with Clinton's Shalala and Bush's Tommy Thompson looking over the CIA nest egg in Wisconsin for explaining back-to-back, Bush-to-Clinton double Wisconsinite appointments to the Sec of Health and Human Services of Shalala and Thompson; (3) the deaths of Vincent Foster, connected to the murder of Israeli PM Rabin, who attempted to help Foster get U.S. Treasury Agent Wanta out of illegal jail "disappearance" in Switzerland; (4) Wanta himself, due to recent federal court suit 2003 verification that he is the public trustholder of 27.5 trillion dollars of U.S. public money that Bush-Clinton have been slushing off of privately and illegally for 15 years; the corporate media is desperate to keep this trillion dollar theft of Bushite-Clintons from being public; the money came from U.S. "Cold War booty" grown to $27.5 TRILLION dollars [dealing with the U.S.'s success in massive counterfeiting operations to crash the Russian currency], and once Wanta was thrown in jail to stop him from turning it back into the Treasury, the Bush-Clintons for 12 years have been using it as their personal drug/gunrunning/global bribery for NWO creation slush fund.

Most of what is below is as quick of an outline to get the picture, with links to follow for more. THE WHOLE BUSH-CLINTON VOTE FRAUDING, DRUG DEALING, ILLEGAL GUN RUNNING, RIGHT-WING ZIONIST, STATE TERRORIST NETWORK links up, here, in this story."


Check the links for more.

4/05/2007 10:03:00 AM  
Blogger ericswan said...

IC...That was the worst synopsis on 911 that I've seen anywhere. With your leaning toward the "big picture" I was taken aback that you disconnected this dot in the long list that you have espoused in your previous posts. We all have are ups and downs and I'm willing to give you the benefit of a doubt. Just one of those one step forward two steps back moments or were you looking for attention?

4/05/2007 10:14:00 AM  
Blogger Shrubageddon said...

Well...I guess IC and Mark aren't going to answer my question. To those of you wondering, when this first started happening it was blamed on the Varroa Mite, or so it seems.....maybe I read it wrong.

However, it now appears we are being told it is due to Colony Collapse Disorder (CCD) (so many disorders these days that I can't keep up).

Maybe the pharmaceutical companies can come up with a pill....they seem to have a placebo for every other fabricated disorder out there.

Oh...IC, I've been reading Internal Combustion by Edwin Black and I'll be damned if he doesn't seem like a shill for the Electrical Power lobby. He aggrandizes electricity as though it were a flawless technology...at least in the earlier chapters. As we all know...electricity, conventially produced, is neither clean nor safe for the environment....and that was certainly the case in the late 19th, early 20th century. The production of electricity then, and now, is every bit as degrading to the environment, if not more, than Internal Combustion.

4/05/2007 10:19:00 AM  
Blogger Shrubageddon said...

My bad....Mark answered my question before I posted.

Thanks, Mark.

Eric...do you have a source for the Einstein quote?

4/05/2007 10:34:00 AM  
Blogger ericswan said...

Mark.. Excellent post and thank you again for the work you do here. Interesting how this goes full circle with mega corporate greed looking for ways to maximize their position. Monsanto has to be the who's who of secret government agenda and BASF has that EU connect that will take TPTB to the next level of slave management. I think it looks darkest just before the dawn.

4/05/2007 10:48:00 AM  
Blogger Silverfox said...

To bee or not to bee, that is the question...

We ought to get the heeby-jeebies over this tale of missing "he" and "g" bees, but not I suspect for the reasons most seem have in mind.

We are talking primarily about beehives that are loaded on trucks and transported continuously across the countryside to pollinate crops that for some very mysterious reason no longer have any local and wild bees who, all things being equal, should have been proliferating like mad right along with all those tasty flowers needing to be visited...hmmm?

Not only that, but it seems those trucks have been getting larger and larger while the beekeepers themselves have been growing fewer and fewer in number.

Something is most definitely very askew and "unnatural" to say the least with this particular picture and I'm not entirely sure that those poor bee-keepers having their workers buzz off on them don't have something far more instrumental to do with this rather bee-zarre situation.

Clearly having their bees decend en-masse on fields far and wide off the backs of their mobile bee farms in ever increasing numbers is not helpfull unless you intend to starve all the local bees right out of existence and it seems no less reasonable that continually working their own bees in such a fashion cannot help but eventually weaken or disorient their natural instincts about just where their home happens to be or more likely in this instance not to be!

4/05/2007 12:53:00 PM  
Blogger Mark said...

eric writes:

"Monsanto has to be the who's who of secret government agenda...

See this little exploration of that can of worms:

Genetic Engineers or Genetic Buccaneers? The NWO Ideology of GMO versus 1,000 organic flowers blooming
http://biostate.blogspot.com/2006/01/genetic-engineers-or-genetic.html

4/05/2007 12:58:00 PM  
Blogger #1 Sniffer said...

Mark: most impressive as new questions are raised and you can provide links to your own past detailed authoritative writings on it (like http://biostate.blogspot.com/2006/01/genetic-engineers-or-genetic.html ) that answer the question(s), even more so if it’s more than once. But it goes to a new level when these writings aren’t about isolated issues just interesting to some, but on the big issues that are or should be, important to all.

You didn’t say it like this, but 911, fluoride in the water (and other poisons), human experimentation, dynastic blue-bloods, Monsanto, Cargill, etc., slavery, NWO agenda, AND the bee problem are not accidental and are all intimately related; though I think it’s a fair reading of your posts that is clearly implied without it being clearly stated (haven’t read all your articles yet).

I’m not saying what you write is unique. On the contrary, much writing especially in recent years growing thanks to the internet, is alerting us to the same things though from varied perspectives and in varying detail (and sometimes accuracy), and on my own I’ve read what your blog says from that material which I could get my hands on, quite a bit actually, which is why I think I was able to recognize what you were discussing at each stage and appreciate it.

There’s only one complaint for like-minded people (i.e., “non-blue-bloods” or their servants). Now that we can see the game being played on us, and that the waking up of enough people seems to hold the key, when is it time to devote some intellectual resources to waking up people faster and devising appropriate strategies? Seems its possible, nay, inevitable, if only we began applying the same intellectual rigor we applied to seeing the problem in the first place.

4/05/2007 02:25:00 PM  
Blogger Tsoldrin said...

Sorcha Faal? LOL! This is a gem right here: A simple phone call to our Kremlin sources provided this cryptic answer, “The ‘Honey Plot’ does exist, Putin himself gave the order.”

If people are just going to make shit up, I wish they'd make it a better story at least. Like... a super-bee colony made up of the combined 'missing' bees from all over the country... billions strong and ready to sweep over population centers darkening the skies before delivering their swarm of deadly stings!

Seriously though... so far none of these variations of a bee conspiracy pass the smell test for me. Sorry. Why bother attacking the worlds food supply when we're already looking at a world-wide drought within the next 5-10 years? That sort of kills two birds with one stone and doesn't even require any effort.

Granted bee disappearance is stranger than simply die off, but that could just mean they're being eaten hm? Milder winters lead to more predators and migratory as well as hybernating predators staying longer. Plus it'd likely lead to more parasites like Shrub's Mite ;)


I am unable to fully grasp the GM crops angle, and I can't understand how that could explain the disappearance as opposed to the death and littering of tiny bee bodies as evidence.

I hate to be a debunker, but imo extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

4/05/2007 03:10:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

What I'm saying, Shrub, is that the bee problem (which is just one aspect of the meta-collapse of the complex, intertwined ecosystems that are the life of the planet) is the result of a sort of perfect storm scenario. When we began to play God in the laboratory without first truly understanding how life works, we opened Pandora's box. I know these are tired, over-used cliches, but they're apt. This is why I spent all that time investigating both the deficiencies in the mechanistic/materialist model upon which the current scientific orthodoxy is based and the alternative--the wider, deeper understanding of natural systems.

From the point of view of that wider understanding, natural systems are the result of morphogenesis and mutation. Morphology is important because it's the process which quite literally in-forms life. If you examine an acorn, there is no blueprint within it that determines the shape of a mature oak tree. That comes from the implicate order, which imparts the blueprint through a type of resonance, Sheldrake's morphic fields. There is still mutation, change and evolution, but not as it's misrepresented by the strictly determinist Darwinians.

Evolution is more about adaption and finding niches--a cooperative, complementary process--than the stupid Mutual of Omaha Wild Kingdom model that the fascist social Darwinists promote with their staged battles between "competing" predators whose habitats would never have overlapped in the real world. This is where it gets political. One model seeks to understand natural systems by taking into account the tremendous energy & infinite potentiality of chaos mathematics--the fractal complexity we see everywhere in nature, this order-out-of-chaos I keep talking about--while the other does not seek understanding at all but instead tries to impose its self-serving, absurdly reductionist "survival of the fittest" paradigm onto both the natural world and us.

This is why we're in such trouble right now. These "superior beings" are so confident of their supremacy that they not only build their empire out of our bones but they even have the hubris to think they can just alter natural systems without even understanding them. They might be able to modify the weather in a destructive manner, but they can't improve it or even stabilize it. The Nazis in the gene labs tell us they're giving us "better yields," better food, etc., but they're giving us death instead. It's no surprise at all that these are the same folks who are behind the eugenics movement, the corporate state, the military/industrial complex and the half-completed Panopticon.

They know better than we do. If someone gets in their way, if a scientist who knows what they're up to speaks out, they're squashed like the bugs they think they can control. Here's a famous example, but there are countless other, less well known cases. You can find all the ammo you need for this fight at LobbyWatch.org Links--they lay out the campaign that's underway to change the way we think in order that no one else might stand up to them.

I'm not saying that genetic research is inherently evil but that it's an incredibly powerful tool which is amoral; everything depends on the use to which it is put. The problem is that the power of this tool is in the hands of extremely bad actors. If you go back to the link I've cited more than any other since I started hanging out with you guys, Dave West's Low, Dishonest Decade, you'll see that it's the same cast of trans-national Nazis who also killed the electric car & decentralized energy production the first time around (1914), the carbohydrate economy 20 years later, and who then went on to supply both sides in WWII (Shadow of the Swastika, Saving Private Power) and then set up the postwar Balance of Terror in the phony Cold War, the post Cold War colonization of Eastern Europe, the prison economy, the War On Drugs and the self-perpetuating War On Terror.

As I said earlier, however, despite the terrible "successes" of these swindles, or maybe because of them, these power-mad, world-killing elites have committed a major mistake. Their colossal hubris has blinded them to the fact that no matter how carefully the truth is massaged or how thoroughly Nature has been stuffed into their mold, they are in fact not superior to the sheep they presume to herd. Like weeds growing through the sidewalks and the deep roots cracking those pavements, truth, love and chaos (the real basis of "freewill") are undoing their maniacal machinations faster than they can repave their ugly, broken paths.

The disappearance of the bees is also indicative of the collapse of the Empire. We already instinctively, intuitively distrust GMO--as the truth of its role in the death of the bees continues to come to light, this distrust is solidifying into a type of resistance they, the masters, never anticipated. It is a resistance that sees the awful tsunami approaching but instead of reacting in the predicted, officially sanctioned responses of oblivion or blind allegiance to the dying empire, we--the stupid useless herd--are very calmly ignoring Big Brother's comforting lies and beginning to resuscitate our dying Mother. More on that in a moment, but first to spell out what I "know" and what I suspect about the bee problem.

While I don't discount the role of the mite, I am fairly certain that the central or most significant cause of the collapse has to do with the fact that Monsanto, DuPont, Dow and BASF hit upon a strategy a few decades back which was based on a single gene-encoded protein cloned out of a commonly used bacterium that was only lethal to Lepidopterans, the insect family that contains the abundance of agricultural pests. So, they put it in everything.

Further, one of the strategies they used to get around the resistance to GM crops was to have their nasty little BT nightmare in such proximity to the natural crops that it crossed over, infiltrated, permeated the the good stuff. They even managed to get it in organically-certified pesticides. You can find out much more about this strategy at gmwatch.org, but for some strange reason both it and eugenics watch (and 6 other similar cites I've been linking) are all suddenly down. Not that I'm a paranoid conspiracy theorist...

So, to make some sense of where we are right now, yeah, Big Picture time, I'm going to recommend the latest bit of beautifully scary/hopeful prose from old Bill Kötke: The Hero's Journey (in case you hadn't seen it). The bit near the end is quite good, as it shows us that despite seemingly depressing odds, hope springs eternal. It's not a long piece and it points to some surprising solutions to questions he raised in Final Empire.

I'll be back with more on the bees as soon as I find it.

4/05/2007 03:19:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

IC...That was the worst synopsis on 911...

ericswan,

?!

What synopsis on 911?

4/05/2007 03:23:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

Shrub,

It all depends on how electricity is generated. Black tells you flat out that coal & nuclear are very, very bad. What he and that guy from n'Kozi Homes and Edison in 1914 (and all those green architecture links I've been feeding you guys) were all talking about is decentralized electric. No power plants, no utility companies period. With a minimal investment in materials and current tech, you have, in effect, free electricity and free water. No infrastructure, no grid.

What's the problem?

4/05/2007 03:28:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

For those interested in what hippies can do for you, I was just forwarded this link from Uncle Albert, who is featured (along with The Farm in Tennessee) in this magnificent short clip from Current TV's Ecovillage Tour.

The scene where he's building his conical mud-huts in front of the toxic McMansions might not highlight the type of very advanced positive energy coefficient housing I'm talking about (like the patented
n'Kozi design), but for sheer contrast you can't get much better.

He's got a blog at the link, too, where he fends off the all too predictable attacks on his furry friends. This might be something for you, Movie Girl.


Okay, I'll be quiet now.

4/05/2007 06:59:00 PM  
Blogger Mark said...

"Granted bee disappearance is stranger than simply die off, but that could just mean they're being eaten hm?"

Well, given the Spiegel.de article that IC linked and which I put on my growing bee dieoff thread (drawn from a lot of you here), and other points mentioned there, it seems that GM-crops--particularly Bt Gm-crops--which are additionally utilized it says as some sort of pesticide sometimes with Bt sprayed into hives directly!--seem to have somthing to do with what is a huge autoimmune breakdown in bees.

The reaction between Bt crops, pollen from Bt crops, and this catalyzing lots of other bee diseases all at once (some of which do involve "drunk bees" that can't find their way back home, it is noted) seems to be a part of it.

And back to the electromagnetic bees. As strange as Sorcha's article is, or HAARP'ed bees, to discount it is to believe in a consensus reality in operation in the world. In face of that, I'm sadly far more likely to believe Sorcha than see evidence of a consensus reality operating anywhere to keep such things from happening in the minds of evil geniuses.

After all, with Monsonto, one company, i.e., a boardroom of perhaps a dozen people?, dominating around 91% of all GM-crops worldwide, and many other major commodity broker houses for the whole world held like a mini-monarchy, where's the sense that massive scaled crop choices globally have been an outcome of public deliberation or consensus reality?

4/05/2007 07:47:00 PM  
Blogger ericswan said...

Tsoldrin.. Sorcha Faal turns out to be the nom de plume for David Booth, a retired computer programmer who wrote "Code Red-The Coming Destruction of the United States"..2004

Mark put it as plainly as can be told. The Russians had the technology to modify weather and even had craft (see Alternative 3) that occupied space over the United States and were doing just that.

IC.. I'm not interested in your links. I'm interested in what you have to say not what you investigate in your "spare" time. Just the facts..

Mark..Silverfox made more than a few good points concerning the survival of the natural bee population and other bloggers have mentioned that the "bee" thing is interesting but what is it doing for "mois". Sniffer has echoed that quiet response that I think more than just a few of us can relate to.

IC ...you pissed me off again. Your "half way there" is bullshit. The suggestion that we are pawns on this board is crummy.

4/05/2007 10:58:00 PM  
Blogger Mark said...

1.

Tsoldrin opined:

Plus it'd likely lead to more parasites like Shrub's Mite ;)

Well, I think Shrub's Mite exists more in a mutually beneficial symbiotic relationship with the blog here, instead of a parasite. ;-)

2.

What's this "mois", eric? French for "me"? (That's "moi.") The overall meaning here is a bit opaque to me. Elaborate?

"Mark..Silverfox made more than a few good points concerning the survival of the natural bee population and other bloggers have mentioned that the "bee" thing is interesting but what is it doing for "mois". Sniffer has echoed that quiet response that I think more than just a few of us can relate to.

Another point is that bees are very supply side things. Many other pollinators exist, just hardly as robust as industrial monocroppers like.

Likely ecological relations off robust honeybees could shrink the economic profit viability of industrial agriculture to smaller real estate levels and scales, which would be better for all around actually. (Do you know how many dead zones have appeared in the world's oceans off the "First World" areas in the past 20 years alone, mostly linked to the expanding pesticide/herbicide and fertilizer heroin that is injected into the ground, and then washed out to sea mostly?) And let's keep in mind Monsanto's partner in crime, Syngenta:

Atrazine in the Water
How pesticide regulation fails to protect our rivers and oceans

Jonathan Stein
March/April 2006 Issue

Throughout 2002 and 2003, officials from the Environmental Protection Agency were conducting regular meetings and email correspondence with representatives of Syngenta, the primary manufacturer of a pesticide called atrazine, at a time when the EPA was supposed to be evaluating atrazine, according to documents obtained by the Natural Resources Defense Council.

The 40-plus meetings were all in violation of EPA policy, as was the private deal that the agency struck with Syngenta before releasing its official findings on atrazine.

Under the terms of the deal, the EPA identified the 1,172 sites at highest risk from atrazine contamination and Syngenta agreed to monitor 40 of them.

Apparently satisfied, the EPA went on to decline to impose any further regulations, saying only that if atrazine levels at these sites were high two years in a row, they would allow Syngenta to propose voluntary mitigation.

Between 60 and 70 million pounds of atrazine are applied annually to crops (mainly corn), golf courses and lawns.

The EPA sets the limit for atrazine in drinking water at 3 parts per billion (ppb), but a 2002 study from the University of California, Berkeley showed that even amounts as low as 0.1 ppb can induce hermaphroditism in frogs.

Says Tyrone Hayes, the lead professor on the study, "Some [frogs] had three ovaries and three testes, some had ovaries on one side and testes on the other, one animal even had six testes."

Salmon are also affected.

Studies on Atlantic salmon presented at recent scientific conferences showed that nine percent of fish exposed to atrazine in concentrations of 100 ppb died, and others experienced significant weight loss.

Larval metabolism and growth were impacted and smolts commonly grew kidney lesions.

According to the Berkeley study, atrazine can be found in concentrations as high as 21 ppb in ground water, 102 ppb in river basins in agricultural areas, 224 ppb in some streams and up to 2,300 ppb in tailwater pits in Midwestern agricultural areas.

These levels are high enough that scientists fear the pesticide could cause cancer and affect reproductive systems in humans.

In Europe, governments are already on board: The European Union banned atrazine for evidence of persistent water contamination back in 2003.

The pesticide can’t even be used in Switzerland, Syngenta’s home country. In the United States, meanwhile, the pesticide has already been detected in the drinking water of more than 1 million Americans at levels higher than EPA's standard.

The fact that such a dangerous chemical can go unregulated in America has a lot to do with the way pesticide battles are fought in Washington. Political Action Committees set up by the fertilizer and pesticide industries have donated over a million dollars to lawmakers in recent years.

In the 2004 election cycle alone CropLife America, a pesticide group, donated money to more than 70 candidates in 34 states.

Environmental groups like the Natural Resources Defence Council, by contrast, are limited to registering their concerns in public dockets during the EPA's evaluation process and filing the occasional lawsuit. (They have filed several in regard to atrazine.)

The results of the EPA's evaluations, though, sometimes make little difference.

The evaluation process can take years and the products being examined are still allowed to be used all the while. Jennifer Sass, a senior scientist at the NRDC says, "The review process has come to screeching halt. Pesticides on the market are considered innocent until proven guilty, so they simply stay on the market. They are [even] being used while [before] the EPA considers them."

The heavy use of atrazine along the Chesapeake Bay and up and down the Mississippi River will continue while environmental groups struggle to convince the EPA to reconsider their decision on the pesticide.

Since the Mississippi drains 41 percent of the continental United States, a large amount of atrazine used across the country ends up being dumped into the Gulf of Mexico. [HUGE DEAD ZONES IN THE GULF.] It's one of the reasons that that once-gorgeous body of water is now home to America's largest dead zone—an area of water the size of New Jersey where no fish, mammal or amphibian can grow or live.


http://www.motherjones.com/cgi-bin/print_article.pl?url=http://www.motherjones.com/news/featurex/2006/03/atrazine.html

I can't find the link at Mother Jones where there was a flash animation about the dead zones of the world in the oceans. I saved some images from it here, just search for the phrase:

When "Far Away" No Longer Exists

and there's two little images from that flash animation there showing the global map of dead zones and their expansion particularly fast since the 1980s.

Back to bees, for a moment.

Bee dieoff as an economic incentives to stop monocrop agriculture isn't the end of the world, it might be the beginning of the other world--other more local pollinators and toward viability of perennial agriculture, and more localized agriculture, etc.

I agree that the whole idea of bees on tractor trailer trucks is sort of repulsive. I read about it many years ago and had to put the article down for a moment in shock.

There's so many better ideas for agriculture than monocropping, particularly monocropping linked to nomadic bees. Better for us, and better for ecological relations.

3.

And if we get tired of bees, get this, connected to the E. Howard Hunt deathbed confession that he was in on murdering JFK info mentioned above.

Even O'Reilly says the CIA did it; Bill O'Reilly Is a JFK Truther

This is from 1997. This is hilarious. (When did O'Reilly start to take Mockingbird money to spin for the Bush fascists? Certainly it was after his time on Inside Edition! The criminal elites of the USA must have some serious blackmail on O'Reilly the major liar--to have him in the palm of their hands now since he is so 'see no evil' about everything he spins in his Spin Zone program on Fox.)

Even Bill O'Reilly, when he was on Inside Edition, reports on Oswald's association with the CIA. Even reports that the CIA had infiltrated the official investigation to sabotage it and report back on what was going on. Gee Bill, here you are spouting a conspiracy theory that the CIA was involved in killing JFK! That's unamerican. Why do you hate this country, you two-faced hypocrite? I'm not saying that you should be fired, like you said Rosie should be fired for doing the same thing you did when you had a soul. I'm saying that Fox News has a BIG problem. Just when was it that you turned to the dark side? (3:39 min)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AQdphWO2SQ

comments at that link and this link

http://911blogger.com/node/7568


Youtube link (some comment it's like watching "Annekin Skywalker before he became Darth Vader."

911 blogger link

4/06/2007 12:02:00 AM  
Blogger #1 Sniffer said...

silverfox said: “I am unable to fully grasp the GM crops angle, and I can't understand how that could explain the disappearance as opposed to the death and littering of tiny bee bodies as evidence. I hate to be a debunker, but imo extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.”

When you grasp it then try debunking…

Google video has an interesting GM foods/crops documentary:

The Genetic Takeover or mutant food, 52 minutes, in English with some subtitles where foreign doctors interviewed.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2733020967044232235&q=gmo+food+duration%3Along

4/06/2007 01:28:00 AM  
Blogger just_another_dick said...

Gee Sniffles, I can see that reading comprehension is not a particular strength of yours, is it?

I plainly post a cut & paste from another website, & it mutates under your rigorous tutelage into MY view on 911.

You're fucking certifiable pal!

I think that the only "lose-lose" situation present here involves your birth & its subsequent stunning setback to the talking monkey gene pool.

You are right about one thing though; the story of my sister-in-law was an invention. But, then again, I invented the sister-in-law, the brother & the niece too.

As a matter of fact, 98% of the "people" posting here are my invention.

I even invented myself in a test tube on a little planet in the general direction of the Outer Pliedies.

But, now that you've gleaned the skinny on RI-land,

{"Then you just wrote another article with more of the same. I don’t think you’re fooling too many with such antics.

You are exposed, it is so obvious."}

I might as well spill the beans.

This entire web-site has been nothing but an elaborate ruse to lure you, #1 Sniffer, into our clutches.

Y'see mate, me & my space alien buds are fed up with probing nothing but squeeling, resisting Earth critters.

So, using our super secret, advanced beyond your wildest imaginings, alien mind probe technology, we've search the world over until, Xipe Totec be praised, we found you, #1 Sniffer, who appears to be the only talking monkey, on this entire twirling ball of talking monkeys, who seems to have a willingness, nay, a deep seated need, for a good anal probing.

So, all I can say is Gotcha!

You can expect us to come pounding at your backdoor in the near future.

& please, try not to moan TOO much,
'Kay?

& by the way, the illicit little sex fantasy of yours that involves you, Wile E. Coyote & a throbbing pulsating Acme rocket is just plain sick.

Look, we here at Ashtar Command understand that you ARE looney tunes, but must your tawdry imaginary sex romps revolve around Looney Tunes characters?

& that bit about inserting a soundtrack of a Stephen Jones lecture is, quite frankly, beyond the pale.

Every time that Mr. Jones mentions "controlled demolition," or "building in free fall," your groaning undulations had even the most hardened anal probers amongst us just cringing in disgust.

Desist at once or we'll conveniently "forget" the lube back here at Ashtar Command Central.

I am the backdoor Lam
The men don't know,
but the #1 Sniffers understand.

4/06/2007 03:55:00 AM  
Blogger #1 Sniffer said...

Mark,

It seems Dr. Stephen Jones rules out directed energy beams to demolish the WTC and provides an explanation of the damage to all those vehicles in photos you provided links to as being “thermate damage.”

I just heard him on the Alex Jones Show of 4/5/07 (starting about 1:04) say this:

“there are two papers in the Journal for 911 Studies that talk about this and show this is consistent with Thermate damage to cars, and later these cars being towed to FDR Drive…”

One of the papers is “The Overwhelming Implausibility of Using Directed Energy Beams to Demolish the World Trade Center Towers” by Dr. Gregory S. Jenkins, Ph.D. Physics (Univ of Maryland)

http://www.journalof911studies.com/volume/200702/Implausibility-Directed-Energy-Beam-Demolish-WTC-by-Gregory-Jenkins.pdf

[Dr. Jones contends these vehicles were right next to the WTC on 9/11, were damaged there by flowing thermaqte, and were towed to FDR Drive days later. He also agreed with Alex Jones this directed energy beam theory is outright disinfo. Dr. Jenkins and Dr. Judy Wood apparently had some heated exchanges on this issue]

This is the direct dl link for a free torrent of the Alex Jones show for 4/5 (app 30 MB - though you may have to register there to get it, I’m not sure, try it) http://conspiracycentral.net:6969/torrents/1d0449f0152c5c1c87886d3d46604eeee17fa7e8.torrent

4/06/2007 05:34:00 AM  
Blogger ericswan said...

Correction noted Mark. My French was never very good. I have this great expectation that you will finally realize what I've been saying about zeolite. All of these problems in rivers oceans, living next to an industrial hog operation, drought you name it. Solved by zeolite. Absolutely found everywhere in the world. And why do you think it's not practiced? First, it's a recent discovery circa 1985. Second, it is natural and cannot be patented. Third, it actually is "dirt cheap" requiring only a crushing process and on and on including the fact that it is "green" and not initially discovered while trying to build a new war application like all the medicine and mind control we are getting now.

4/06/2007 10:18:00 AM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

IC ...you pissed me off again. Your "half way there" is bullshit. The suggestion that we are pawns on this board is crummy.


ericswan,

Once again, I'm shaking my head like a wet dog and saying, "Huh?" I know that you're angry with me, but I'll be damned if I know why. ("Pawns on this board"??) Since you won't tell me about it, I'll just ignore it and instead focus on your comments.

We are not "half way there"--we're nowhere. But the reason why this is so is not because there are no solutions to the problems we face. We're "all the way there" in this regard, but no one seems to be aware that the solutions to these supposedly "intractable" problems are already at hand. Take Shrub's accidental misreading of the energy conundrum. We don't need some suppressed free energy technology (which does exist and is suppressed) because we know how to make our houses and cars energy and water) self-sufficient. This is why I link n'Kozi and the other outfits that are making these houses--so that we can get past this doomed hand-wringing bullshit that's sponsored by those who want us to believe that there are no solutions.

Now, it is a reasonable question to ask how e're going to pay for the rebuilding of the world, but here again it's more a matter of getting past the propaganda with which we've been bombarded fooking forever than one of finding solutions. This is where that Kim Stanley Robinson link comes in. Economics is not my strong suit, but it's really very simple anyway. The present supposedly free market system is based on a steady 5% unemployment. (Which is actually under-reported because it doens't take into account those who no longer seek work.)

Ever wonder why the stock market gets nervous when unemployment goes too low? Because all sorts of nasty things would happen to their control mechanisms if full employment were even approached, much less achieved. Companies would have to compete for workers, paying them better wages and giving them better benefits. Capital would shift from the owners to the wage earners. Very, very bad for those whose business it is to exploit the masses and control their democratic yearnings through a system that forces them to take whatever the company is offering.

When you unravel how the economy really works, with its institutionalized monopolies and the fake stock market and the control mechanisms of the banking industry, it soon becomes apparent that money is an arbitrary fiction--it's not tied to the gold standard or anything else. We can (and do) simply print any amount of money for any purpose we want. Robinson advocates massive public works for building a new infrastructure, something we did in the five separate New Deals under Roosevelt and which we did again in the '50s & '60s to build the interstate highway system, which was a program administered by the Defense Department for national security reasons.

The highways were built with public money that went into corporate pockets under the rubric of "mobilization to counter Soviet attack"--very similar to the Russian use of the East German autobahn system during the fake Cold War. I once witnessed this type of mobilization firsthand, in 1985, when I hitched a ride with a truckdriver going from West Berlin to Hamburg through the Eastern zone. We had to pull off the road for three hours as the Russians landed huge troop transport planes right on the autobahn and then conducted maneuvers. From our vantage point, parked across the highway from a huge billboard painted with one of those classic propaganda scenes of "Soviet realism" (you know, the strong, beautiful peasant women working in the fields with their comrades driving those sturdy Russian combines), the whole thing was just surrealistic, as the tanks rolled off the planes and the troops spread out into the fields that had been emptied of enthusiastic farm workers. Even the truckdriver had to laugh at the scene with me, although he was still angry about finding out that I was an American, which he felt put him in some jeopardy.

If we can mobilize for war, then we can mobilize for peace. And the money does not need to go into the welfare of the contracters and Halliburtons who profit from what Bucky Fuller called the Death Industry. Fuller also understood the importance of this shift-he said that if we didn't switch from the business of death to the business of peace, we would surely perish, either by killing each other outright or by killing the earth in our mad pursuit of hegemony instead of cooperation. It's not enough to find some alternative to petroleum, you see, because that in itself would not necessarily change anything.

This is where ericswan and his zeolite come in. We have to reclaim what's been poisioned, in addition to reconfiguring human settlement. As Bill Kötke says in The Hero's Journey:

We are all looking at the end of the world as we know it. Our attention is focused on the holes in the ozone layer, planetary warming, Peak Oil, the spread of DU weapons, the collapse of the house of credit cards, and the prospect of the planetary financial elite quickly establishing fascist control of the planet. Below this threshold of conscious awareness our biological survival systems are rapidly eroding.

At this point some twenty percent of the planet’s soils erode each twenty-five year period. Each year at least two hundred thousand acres of irrigated crop-lands go out of production because of salinization or water-logging and experts say that sixty to eighty percent of all irrigated acreage is due to follow the eight to ten million acres that have historically gone into ruination from irrigation. The total drylands of the planet are 7.9 billion acres of which 61% are desertified, that is, driven by human abuse toward uselessness. Globally, 23% of all arable crop lands have been lost since 1945 through human use and experts say that all arable land on the planet will be ruined in 200 years.

It is estimated that prior to the human culture that we term civilization, one third of the planet was covered with closed canopy forest. Now forests cover 10% of the earth. In the oceans the collapse of major fish stocks is increasing. At least eight stocks have collapsed beginning with the Antarctic Blue Whale in 1935 to the Peruvian Anchovy stock collapse in the late-twentieth century. Since 1984 the world fish catch has been shrinking even with greater investment and the taking of what in former times were considered "trash" fish. Of the 32 ocean fisheries, 30 are in decline and some of those are collapsing. At the same time coral reefs and mangrove swamps which are considered the "incubators" of sea life are dwindling precipitously.

Soil is the basis of the planetary terrestrial life. In the best of circumstances such as old growth forests and prairies, soil builds at the rate of one inch each three hundred to a thousand years. It is being exhausted and is eroding away. The way that the industrial system has continued to increase the food supply is by trading off soil fertility for fossil fuel energy through artificial fertilizers. Now, nearly half of the world’s people eat because of the added production of food caused by artificial fertilizers being injected into depleted soils and the use of all of the other accouterments of fossil- fueled industrial agriculture.. Half of the planetary population are hanging out on a limb essentially eating petroleum! Now as the population continues to explode, we reach Peak Oil and its decline. We do not need to continue filling in the details. Our intellect can draw the conclusion for us. An exponentially exploding world population with increasing material consumption, based on dwindling resources and a dying planet, won’t work!


But it's not over yet. As dire as all this sounds, there is still a way out, but we are not "halfway there." We know what we need to do, but we have not yet begun to make the switch that Fuller talked about. Kötke spells out what we need to do right now to save the planet:

The Cultural Conditioning

Culture is hypnosis. A hypnotic suggestion can be given in deep trance or in light trance, a state of conscious attention such as watching television. In light trance the suggestion is repetitive over time. We have all had a world view suggested to us by our cultural conditioning. For example, we intellectually know that, except for native people, the rest of us in the American hemisphere and many other places on the planet are colonials. But, we don’t subconsciously hold this understanding because of culturalization. Since birth we have heard of "warlike" Indians. But intellectually we know that any country that is invaded will put up a vigorous response. Intellectually we know that, according to the historian Eduardo Galeano, up to 70 million native people were eliminated from the Americas by sword and pestilence yet we subconsciously view the holocaust of the Jews and Armenians as the only significant massacres.

In this manner our world view is created. The gold fish does not see the water. As our culture instructs us that wealth is security and is the purpose of life, we use up the earth more rapidly toward our demise. On a psychological level we identify with our material possessions and subconsciously assume our existence without these elements would be non-identity. Our needs toward greater ego-security also point toward our demise.


The Species Initiation

Now that the planet-wide human species, is by default, in control of the life of the earth we can understand what would be needed for the species to succeed to full maturity. The first order is to stay alive. To do that we must maintain that which feeds and shelters us. We must keep the earth alive and ecologically restore it even in the areas of dense human population today. Our reality view is, in fact, global now by default. Ozone holes, nuclear radiation, sea level rise, planet heating and the rubbing out of the living flesh of the earth are global phenomena.

Like the Six Nations Iroquois who frame each tribal decision to its effects on the seventh generation, we must create a reality frame as the life of the earth. Given our subconscious conditioning that is difficult, but in this case our intellect can lead us. If we can frame our cultural reality view as based upon the care of the earth and teach that to the children, then many other cultural values will flow from that.

A present day citizen of the earth, if they were a mature and responsible adult, would say that honorable actions would perpetuate the living earth for its sake as well as for the progeny of the human species. That commitment at the level of the whole species would signify the initiation of the species to maturity.


The Hero At The Portals of Initiation

The center does not hold.. Oil and the resources of the earth such as soil and forests are exhausting as the mass swells. Can the hero make it through the disintegration? Can small land based, self-sufficient communities make it through, some of them? Can they carry the universal value of life through with their culture? Can they create a culture that will spread in the future, that focuses on the highest development of each human as a person rather than the highest rung up the ladder of empire? This is what is being asked of the hero for initiation into human species maturity - nothing less than courage, the adherence to the culture of life over long periods of time and transformation.

All the elements that we need exist. We have examples of alternative buildings, created from local materials, with solar advantages that can heat and cool themselves with no outside energy inputs. We have a world-wide movement to Permaculture which can help us restore ecologies while producing more human food per acre than the industrial system. We have a wide and increasing selection of human development methods which can aid in the development of each individual to their highest potential - outside the materialist paradigm. We have planetary communication through the internet whose maintenance could require few resources.

When the hero can succeed at the matter of keeping the human species and the planet alive and see that as just a "housekeeping" duty, then we can get on with the truly challenging task of creating a positive and joyous human culture to which the hero is entitled.


There is no reason whatsoever that we can't replant the great forests and use ericswan's magic crytals to isolate the toxins we've poured into the earth. Instead of buying plastic crap from China and building toxic McMansions (and calling it an economy), we can put everyone to work in a labor of love by carefully dismantling our cities and building in their place greenroof habitats that are part of the ecosystem instead of a drain on them. We know how to do this. We have working models.

My push has always been to just start building these communites, both in rural settings and, I think even more importantly, in urban settings. It would a reversal of the propaganda of the old way I witnessed on the autobahn all those years ago to see the great uncounted & disenfranchised masses tearing their ghettos down and replacing them (with love) with communities that looked like this and this.

Massive, fundamental change cannot be policy driven when the policy makers are lackeys and gatekeepers. So fuck 'em. We start building some shit, open some eyes, spread the memes of hope & change, and let the momentum build itself. Eventually, we are going to have to confront the fake war syndrome (drugs, terror, etc.) and eventually there will have to be a political restructuring, but we've got to get their hooks out of us first.

For those frightened by the prospect of corruption of massive public works projects (or those still vulnerable to the fear of the "creeping socialism" meme), there are other economic models, such as Mark's bioregionalism (which Uncle Albert discusses in his blog) and the resource-based economy of The Venus Project. The fact is that anything is possible, despite what they tell you. What we (the oppressed and/or unwitting dupes, by which I do not mean the people on this board but the general population) have is more a failure of imagination than a failure of will. Luckily, not everyone is cowed into submission by the fear machine.

4/06/2007 02:37:00 PM  
Blogger #1 Sniffer said...

Well, well, it now appears clear Dr. Judy Wood and her whole “911 Issues” website that advances “Star Wars Directed-Energy Weapons (DEW)” as being the cause of the collapses of the WTC, subject of several lengthy posts above in this thread by Mark in particular, are indeed, a totally bogus effort (by Dr. Judy Wood, whoever she is) to possibly infiltrate the 911 truth movement and again divert it down the wrong trail.

Extremely revealing is this 34-minute unmerciful unedited video interview by Dr. Greg Jenkins of Dr. Judy Wood, where Dr. Wood is, and (with apologies to j.a.dick who I see is back from his double-shifts and doesn’t like the use of the term), fully “exposed.”

Dr. Greg Jenkins Interviews Dr. Judy Wood
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-558096240694803017

I say it was “unmerciful” because she had to endure 34 minutes of obviously being exposed to be a fraud live on camera, because she could not even minimally support her own claims to a fellow physicist plus Jenkins' paper objectively does it too (though her own speech leaves doubt as to even her own scientific credentials), and without a way to escape (though at one point she tries), must sit through it all.

If the stakes weren’t so high I’d truly pity her, but since they are, I don’t. Jenkins was very impressive, he wasn’t rude or overbearing in the slightest, just very relaxed and sharp.

“In fact, the whole interview with Greg Jenkins was very troublesome to me because it was so clear that he was seeking to put words in Judy's mouth and demand an exactitude of answers that she was going to be unable to provide...”, Dr. James Fetzer during the Dynamic Duo radio broadcast on 02/06/07 regarding an interview conducted at the National
Press Club on 01/10/07”

Dr. Jenkins answers that best in the beginning of his own paper on the subject “The Overwhelming Implausibility of Using Directed Energy Beams to Demolish
the World Trade Center Towers”

http://www.journalof911studies.com/volume/200702/Implausibility-Directed-Energy-Beam-Demolish-WTC-by-Gregory-Jenkins.pdf:

“As Dr. James Fetzer suggests, Dr. Judy Wood may be unable to provide answers to basic questions regarding her own speculative hypothesis. However, this paper does quantitatively analyze those issues raised during the interview as well as address other evidence advanced by Dr. Judy Wood and others that the WTC towers may have been destroyed by directed energy weapons. The following arguments will prove that the
degree of implausibility places the hypothesis squarely in the realm of the impossible.”

“Dr. Wood’s hypothesis is predominantly based upon the premise that large amounts of debris were ‘missing’ from the post-collapse rubble. A detailed analysis clearly demonstrates that all the debris is accounted for if sublevel collapses are considered. This paper addresses the massive energy requirements, issues involving the use of directed energy weapons, and misinterpreted phenomena used to support the thesis such as the Richter scale measurements, Bathtub damage, holes in adjacent buildings,
charred cars, etc...”

...The Associated Massive Energy Scale

It is a simple matter to calculate the amount of energy required to vaporize the steel in the upper 110 floors in one of the WTC towers.
E C T C C T C M J S F L V 14 1 2 ( 􀀁􀀁) 5.7 􀀂10 (Equation 1)
The terms in the equation relate to the energy required to raise the steel from room temperature to the melting point, change phase from solid to liquid, raise the temperature from the melting point to the boiling point, and change phase from liquid to gas,
respectively.3

If you consider that this amount of energy, J 14 5.7 􀀁10 , which is only 50% of the energy required to vaporize all the steel from both towers was pumped into the towers during the collapse time, approximately 10 seconds, then the power necessary to vaporize
the steel would be 5.7x1013 Watts. This is over 5 times the total power output of the entire earth26 including all carbon combustion, nuclear power, wind power, hydroelectric power, etc. This is with no loss.

If you take into account losses from scattering and absorption in the atmosphere, reflection by aluminum and steel in the building, and inefficiencies from storing this huge amount of energy and generating photons, then the power required swells to at least
thousands of earths worth of power (see next section). The scenario becomes more bleak when considering beams of particles that have mass since the ionization energies required
would add massive amounts of energy in conjunction with the aforementioned inefficiencies.

Most of the energy required to vaporize steel is contained in the term relating to the latent heat of vaporization, approximately 75% of the total energy calculated in
Equation 1.3 This is the amount of energy required to vaporize steel once it is already at the boiling point. Since this is the ominating factor in the energy scale, it can be thought of as the energy required to break all the bonds which hold the steel together. Any
magical method which hypothetically could be used to ‘dustify’ (a word evidently
invented by Dr. Wood) the steel would necessarily involve breaking the bonds holding it together. In short, the energy required to ‘dustify’ steel, if such a thing were possible, would be about the same as the energy required to vaporize steel.

================
Any comments Mark? Anyone else?

4/06/2007 05:17:00 PM  
Blogger Mark said...

eric, Sniffer, and IC:

1.

eric said:

"I have this great expectation that you will finally realize what I've been saying about zeolite. All of these problems in rivers oceans, living next to an industrial hog operation, drought you name it. Solved by zeolite. Absolutely found everywhere in the world. And why do you think it's not practiced? First, it's a recent discovery circa 1985. Second, it is natural and cannot be patented. Third, it actually is "dirt cheap" requiring only a crushing process and on and on including the fact that it is "green" and not initially discovered while trying to build a new war application.

Oh yes. I saved your notes and details about zeolite in my "remediation" file (one of 55 different material consumptive use files, files of 'material tool choices' that I use to ponder dynamics of how to formulate something wider than agroecology/permaculture, into something that integrates all material consumptive use categories instead of merely agricultural ones. )

On zeolite: what happens once it sequesters something bad and poisonous, itself? Is is like the soil's humic acids that chelate and sequester--turning chemicals into more harmeless and less bioavailable ions and cations, right? What do you do with your half poisonous zeolite, then? Any ideas?

Instead of end of pipe concerns, a whole different materials revolution (in the original sense of the word: "revolving") integration I think is required--back to the act of institutionalizing only mutually amenable materials that fit with each other like puzzle pieces in particular areas to benefit particular geographies durability and sustainability, similar to the "Gaviotas model" that I think I have mentioned before:

"In the early 1970s, a unique community was founded in the los llanos region of Colombia. Located north of the Amazon rain forest, this region is an expansive savannah, sparsely populated and generally considered uninhabitable. Gaviotas originated out of the belief that the current state of urban expansion and poverty and the continued depletion of natural nonrenewable resources could not be sustained and that the future required people to learn how to live in harsh, inhospitable environments and to do so in an ecologically sound and sustainable manner. Journalist Weisman tells the story of a remarkable and diverse group of individuals (engineers, biologists, botanists, agriculturists, sociologists, musicians, artists, doctors, teachers, and students) who helped the village evolve into a very real, socially viable, and self-sufficient community for the future. The people of Gaviotas today produce innovative technologies (solar collectors, irrigation systems, windmills, and hydroponic gardens) that use the environment without depleting or destroying it. While some of their creative endeavors have not succeeded, even the failures tend to spawn ideas for future successes. Weisman does a fine job of detailing Gaviotas's evolution and placing it within the larger global historical context. The story he presents is wonderful testament to human creativity, commitment, and effort toward building a socially viable and environmentally sustainable future."

Their only problem was scaling their ideas or taking them out and seeding them in other areas--that didn't have the desire to do what they did, or were under a political regime that supported ongoing environmental degradation.

I sort of contribute the "commodity ecology" framework of institutions as a way to deal with how to scale Gaviotas like projects, i.e., what institutions would be conducive to replicating and maintaining their commodity dynamics democratically.


COMMODITY ECOLOGY: From mere "End of Pipe" Remediation, to Ecological Engineering for a Sustainable Economic Watershed

This section veers outside the formal institutional discussion toward a proposal of how to make economically sustainable frameworks across each watershed in the world. This is done by going further than the "end of pipe" remediation strategies of both ecological modernization as well as Living Machines, toward democratizing a process by which we choose and use materials locally in the first place. Commodity ecology is the local watershed democratization of commodity choice and their interactions.


Ideally, we shouldn't have to remediate anything. Everything we "throw away" should be organized form the start to be more 'cradle to cradle' as they call it--as well as removing the false assumption that recycling is innately a form of downgrading instead of potentially upgrading.

Different watersheds or regions should have stable emergy frameworks, though still be trading entities if they want, just as long as they avoid externalities on themselves or their neighbors.

Who was it that said "pollution is just energy in the wrong place"?

Though...

in the meantime, inbetween time,
ain't we got zeolite?


And have you seen this interesting site?

Remineralize the Earth

"Remineralize the Earth is a non-profit organization incorporated to disseminate ideas and practice about soil remineralization throughout the world. Membership and donations are tax-deductible. Remineralize the Earth networks to a community grassroots network that stretches to every continent.

The book The Survival of Civilization by John Hamaker and Don Weaver is regarded by a growing movement worldwide as a blueprint for the survival of the Earth, restoring ecological balance, and perhaps even recreating Eden.
The remineralization of forests, farms, orchards, and gardens with glacial gravel and rock dust is nature's way to regenerate and fertilize soils. During an Ice Age, as glaciers grind rock to a fine dust over millennia, a fertile soil is created. Adding finely ground gravel dust to soils is a tremendous boost to organic agriculture and can make it truly viable by adding up to a hundred elements and trace minerals needed by all life. Rock dust also nourishes the microorganisms in the soil, whose protoplasm is the basis of all living things."


Astoundingly good idea is their idea of linking two consummptive uses and their wastes that people think are entirely different and even oppositional--mining dust and agricultulure.

With the nontoxic mine dust, the results they get are astounding in their plant effects. It shows how paltry are our accustomed views of what is a normal size for crops, fruits and vegetables--similar to what IC says that it's mostly a failure of the imagination to really know what is already possible and already being done.

I've got a post a while back about demineralization in the USA. What is really astounding is how 'empty' of nutrients industrial agricultural foods have become while looking the same. Here's some loose data on the subject:

SUPPLY VERSUS DEMAND: Veggies, Soil, Pesticides/Herbicides, and Your Increasingly Nutritionally Useless Food
http://biostate.blogspot.com/2005/12/supply-versus-demand-veggies-soil.html


2.

#1 Sniffer noted:

"It seems Dr. Stephen Jones rules out directed energy beams to demolish the WTC and provides an explanation of the damage to all those vehicles in photos you provided links to as being “thermate damage.”"

(Sigh). More divisiveness and mutual exclusivity from Dr. Jones that is hardly required in my opinion.

Of course that's hardly all there was, though there is even Dr. Jones-preferred physical evidence for it--he is just ignoring it. He's done it before, according to Holmgren who caught him on it. Scroll back through this thread or the previous one and I think anyone would have a hard time fitting the square peg of thermite entirely to cover up the larger round hole of evidence.

The danger of the 'mutual exclusivity theory'

I noted Stephen Jones was "like that" on the previous post. Just search for the phrase 'mutual exclusivity theory' in that post. Or see Holmgren's* posted email exchange with Stephen Jones, where Dr. Jones gets caught bluffing knowledge to discredit something that he obviously didn't even want to look at. Holmgren is really brutal to him, I think overly so. Holmgren does not seem like a nice guy, though his research is documented in every step of the way--even if he dips into the mutual exclusivity dogmatism as well sometimes in his conclusions.

Alex Jones of course refuses to discuss the Pentagon hit despite all his work on almost everything else. (What's cute is that this puts David Shayler's definite views on digital manipulation and the Pentagon hit in direct opposition to Alex Jones, even though Alex Jones interviewed Shayler several times for films (in Jones's Terrorstorm, for instance).

Though these personal quirks of theirs I don't think are all that important, because, on the one hand they are right: they can concentrate on a handful of truly smoking guns of thermate they have already nailed down. Though they can do this without pretending to bury other evidence and they can do this without pretending that it is all there is, simply because they chose to specialize in that.

Though I suggest we pause: we know who they are dealing with in a very direct and dangerous way: state terrorists.

For instance, Stephen Jones reports in some of his taped presentations, he has received direct physical threats. Other journalists like Christopher Bollyn has been physically beaten up by U.S. jackboot thugs--right in his own front yard! In the town that his immigrant ancestor to the U.S. helped to found! And for Dr. Jones, they've basically fired him right now from teaching for being so open about how EASY IT IS to point out state terrorism of the Bushes, just as others fired NIST people for noting HOW EASY IT IS to poke holes in the offical story of steel being melted away by kerosine fires of planes. (Bush regime even gags, fires and demotes environmental bean counters in their EPA: They don't like the idea of science as a public discourse, and prefer science as a 'state elite enablement' discourse alone. I'm sure they would patent words and charge people for using them if they could find a way.)

I'm sure Alex Jones gets his share of threats, though I've not ever heard him talk about the 'background of reporting'. He has been arrested for asking a question about the CFR directly to Bush's face (a "great" little film clip that you can find on the internet; and he did reported that when he attempted to enter Canada to film/protest last year's Bilderberg location, that the Canadian border guards said he was to be held without arrest 'on order of Bilderberg' (which of course is not really an official Canadian governmental institution,...or is it?). Then they combed through his computers as well as "interrogated" with yells and threats (he said, helped on by Alex Jones he said later, which he was sorry for) for over 24 hours while they desperately looked for some rationale to arrest him. At least that's Alex Jones side of the story. Alex additionally tells of a story that he rejected becoming part of the "dark side"--he was offered huge contracts in the corporate media he said once somewhere in one of his films, if he would play ball, though he rejected it. Another sad thing is that soon after refusing Rockefeller entreatments to join the CFR, and then doing the 'heretic' thing of making his America: Freedom to Fascism film, as well as pointing out how his Rockefeller friend was in the terror network itself, Aaron Russo comes down with fast growing cancer...
Holmgren is equally mutually exclusive. From one mere view of WTC2 hit being digitally manipulated footage--the helicopter view from north--he jumps to....all the other side's footage that he didn't analyze is required to be digitally manipulated, which means to him all other eye witnesses are lying; however, alas, of course "we can have our digitally manipulated photos and eat them too" (have strange planes hit towers and digitally manipulated footage simultaneously.

However, I'm not interested "researching the researchers" as much as I am the web of relationships that all the researchers talk about.

I don't want to merely go over what I said before, though it looks like I just did. It's easier just to link: ah here it is a thread back. Search for the phrase 'mutual exclusivity theory' to find it.

I think all these different mutually exclusive perspectives will be merged sooner or later, and they are just a product of some people having more ruffled feathers than others over some issues. Of course in the meantime the contention roars on over what will eventually be entirely unimportant and just a social product of different research 'camps' specializations.

Thanks for pointing out that strange little exercise in dogmatism on the Jones (Alex and Stephen).

Typically Alex Jones entirely avoids getting or sponsoring things like that, I'm surprised.

Though I refuse to be harsh: I don't know what kind of physical threats these people are going through if any--for being so public about information, that in an ideal world, would innately topple any government and it wouldn't be limited to Republicans it would take down nearly everything about the way the world experiences "America" to admit to it.

I still commend any 9-11 researcher, as long as they spend more time on rooting in the evidence, instead of rooting against other researchers.

There's such a wealth of incriminating evidence of state terorrism on 9-11, it's surprising that people think that it's hard to find or that they have to pretend they have personally uncovered "the" smoking gun, or that they have to cover over other smoking guns to talk about their own findings.

One prediction though: for the visually addicted U.S., the WTC7 collapse will increasingly be the rallying cry of official 9-11 protest truth (and what a logo and smoking gun it is--and it links to many levels of other things). Other countries, like in that David Shayler piece from Sky News I linked above, may be more ecumenical about the day's events and its arcana.

It's like Americans are still very uncomfortable with admitting that so much badness can exist all at once, so they pretend that there is only one smoking gun so they can hold out that it was an isolated event--INSTEAD OF THE WAY THE USA has been operating state terror for mass social psychological manipulation ever since 1898's invasion of Cuba and the Philippines. People want to only find one smoking gun I think. It's really annoying or frightening to find so many all at once, that make official U.S. history look like bad paper mache for generations.

One smoking gun is all some require I guess. Though to be fair there are many smoking guns.

3.

IC, I'd say that was your best "Sermon on the Mount" yet. Cogent, short and sweet, even moving, much appreciated.

4/06/2007 08:02:00 PM  
Blogger #1 Sniffer said...

Mark said: “…The danger of the 'mutual exclusivity theory' … Just search for the phrase 'mutual exclusivity theory' in that post.”
================

First, this “mutual exclusivity theory” principle does not apply here. It wasn’t used to reject the Directed Energy Weapon theory, physics was.

In other words, the Directed Energy Weapon theory of Dr. Judy Wood is NOT being rejected because the Controlled Demolition or any other theory mutually excludes it, NOR because Stephen Jones or Alex Jones reject it, BUT because an authoritative physicist’s (Dr. Greg Jenkins) peer-reviewed scientific paper refutes it unceremoniously based on actual data and physics. His devastating interview of her exposes her too.

I saw Dr. Jenkins’ interview of Dr. Wood and found it very revealing too, one of the strongest “gotcha” kind of interviews in my recent memory. In it you can see on camera who it is that is advancing the theory that was persuasive to you (and me, which for that reason made these discoveries that much more dramatic). And to Alex and Stephen Jones’ credit, in this case at least their position was based on this solid data.

In fact the same interview video is linked in the front page on Dr. Judy Wood’s own website in an article titled: “Dr. Greg Jenkins' "Directed Debunking Energy" and Prof. Judy Wood “ 1 March 2007, by Andrew Johnson. And Andrew Johnson’s comments show an interesting little spin on it (basically instead of arguing facts, he resorts to victimization as a defense):

“…I also wrote about pernicious debunking and personal attacks, which whilst people like Prof Steve Jones claim to be a victim of, the evidence suggests that people like Prof Judy Wood have ended up in a rather worse situation, with the mysterious death of one of her students and the loss of her job. As a result of an event in January 2007, it seems that, once again, she has been placed directly in the firing line of 9/11 research – Dr Greg Jenkins set up an ambush interview, in a side room at the National Press Club, Washington DC.”

What personal attacks? What ambush? Simply lies to cover lies. But you see the interview and decide for yourself.
 

4/06/2007 09:52:00 PM  
Blogger ericswan said...

Mark..zeolite is an aluminum silicate only hollow with an alkaline PH. The crystal structure is QUANTAM. One grain of sand with a thousand or more vesicles, channels and interlocking structure. Not all natural occuring zeolite have the same pore size or the same electricial co-valence. As an educated guess zeolite should stand up for 10,000 years which is enough time to dispose of radionucleotides into either more zeolite or some other containment.

Zeolite can be used for refrigeration. If you circulate a water/zeolite solution through a pump, it will pick up the water and when it reaches a specific temperature, the water is driven out. Zeoponics is being considered for space applications.

The only application where zeolite will not work is in the context of salt as NaCl plugs the pores. Salt can be sublimated out of the zeolite using heat. Simply amending a salt flat with zeolite will not work. Once it goes to salt, it is gone.

Sniffer (if that really is your name), one of the advantages of blogging over public speaking is the opportunity to organize your thoughts. I don't trust Alex. I trust my intuition. I trust you even though you don't think highly enough of yourself to post with your real name. I think you should. Your words will have more impact and more meaning.

IC...let me be perfectly cryptic. The same technology that Tesla developed where a beam "one one millionth of a milimetre" could destroy an atom bomb or the plane that was carrying that bomb;

is the self same tech that allows for time travel.

Mark is right. I have to agree that you are hitting your stride. hehehehehe.

4/06/2007 11:20:00 PM  
Blogger Tsoldrin said...

Hutchison

4/07/2007 04:23:00 AM  
Blogger Invader Stu said...

I've had times like that as well where I'm so burnt out that I can't form proper sentences.

4/07/2007 08:57:00 AM  
Blogger Mark said...

From that paper:

"Analysis of All Known Energy Beams There are only two types of directed energy beams: those that have mass (particle beams such as protons, ions, neutral atoms, or electrons) and those that do not have mass (photons)."

I'm left sort of nonplussed by his discussion dismissing the whole idea, because he acts like he knows the full sets of technologies available, and acts like he reviews them all, which he doesn't: [1] given the massive array of black budget equipment that we don't know about, [2] he doesn't even talk about microwaves.

Therefore, it is best to be more skeptical that this discredits the whole idea.

His complete assurance via partial information is rather silly and hubristic.

This is all he says on the cars. I capitalized certain words. Notice how he doesn't talk about describing the damage of cars at all, and just starts from various abstract principles in lieu of discussion of the cars. If we were talking theory, he would be right. Though we are investigating a crime scene, which he fails to do in his paper regarding this issue.

Charred Vehicles [UM, THEY WEREN'T 'CHARRED' FIRST OFF]

Explosives or thermate CAN reach temperatures above the vaporization point of steel. Localized hot spots after and during the collapse, COULD account for the burning of some cars and other material in the area. Furthermore, debris impacting vehicles CAN smash gas tanks and oil pans releasing highly combustible fluids in the vicinity of other
vehicles. Any sufficient heat or spark CAN ignite the flammable fluids such as burning paper40 or hot metal (a photograph of a ‘localized hot spot’ is in reference 37). Adjacent vehicles MAY be scorched by flames from burning vehicles by varying amounts and burn
patterns, or MAY even ignite themselves (see pictures in reference 37 for a specific
example). [THUS WITHOUT DISCUSSING PARTICULAR CARS DAMAGE AND ENTIRELY MOVING THROUGH THESE HYPOTHETICALS,] Directed energy beams are not needed to explain burning cars and trucks.


In the abstract, yes, though this isn't an abstract issue. F for the course I think.

Why are you so interested in that interview? I don't know why you (or anyone should) ha(a)rp on hit and run interview journalism as proving anything. It's non sequitur. If things were true based on how loud someone got, then FOX news would win every argument, and Bush's weapons of mass destruction would simply materialize out of thin air whenever called upon, though of course they don't in either case, so the groups just act loud and angry, which is rather boring and doesn't do anything useful except make them look even more like charlatans.

Most journalism or staged fights like that have nothing to do with establishing whether something is true or false.

For instance, for another example, David Ray Griffin was audially trounced by (potential disinfo guy) "Chip Berlet" whose real name is....where's that bookmark, here it is:

"JOHN FOSTER (Dulles) Berlet", "watches left" for CIA, history... 04.Mar.2007 23:14

...

Sourcewatch and publiceye are CIA proxies.

...Well it's time to out ol Chip as a government disinfo guy:

"I think the real story was how does Chip Barlet get implanted onto any program about 9-11--particularly when Chip Barlet has admitted secret police state intelligence meetings--designed for defamation intent--of which he was a part. "

and his real name is a morph of the founder of the CIA, John Foster (Dulles) Berlet.

in the comments here on ol CIA meeting Chip Barlet
http://madison.indymedia.org/newswire/update/index.php

in the disinfo peddling Chip Berlet on 9-11, trashing the popular books of the author David Ray Griffin when he was "set up" on Democracy Now with a fake attack, when ol Chip loudly criticized him for a totally minor point of fact that happened after the book he wrote was published.
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2005/05/316966.shtml

and

Regulated Resistance: Pt. 2 - The Gatekeepers of the So-Called Left
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2005/05/316865.shtml

and

"However, at the last minute, Goodman abruptly and without explanation changed the format of the show from an interview to a "debate," and brought in long-time "anti-conspiracist" Chip Berlet.

Berlet is not an expert on 9/11 research, and his group, Political Research Associates, is an alleged "Left" organization that is funded in part by the Ford Foundation.


(It is interesting to note that "Chip" Berlet's full name is John Foster Berlet. He was named after John Foster Dulles who, with his brother Allen, designed the CIA for Harry Truman in 1947, and played a prominent role in smuggling Nazis into America to help build the post-WWII American "Defense" and Intelligence apparatus)."
http://tampaindymedia.org/bin/site/templates/
default.asp?area_2=imc/open%20newswire/2005/Jul/4140.22607421875.dat

and

Chip Berlet 9-11 dog & pony show already exposed as intell. agent operation 18.May.2005 02:36
got it? link
http://madison.indymedia.org/newswire/display/24059/index.php

Re: Chip Berlet of Political Research Associates, PSYOPS, not neutral; whole show to be a farce, read on
by shearing the sheeple
(No verified email address) 11 May 2005

"Suspicious" is an overstatement given the funding data is from open sources such as IRS990 but the title indicates where the author is coming from.

In an article entitled, "ALTERNATIVE MEDIA CENSORSHIP: SPONSORED BY CIA's FORD FOUNDATION?", Bob Feldman devotes a chapter to POLITICAL RESEARCH ASSOCIATES' EDELMAN-BUNDY CONNECTION ( http://www.questionsquestions.net/feldman/feldman10.html), pointing to suspicious sources of funding for Berlet's organization.

ALTERNATIVE MEDIA CENSORSHIP:
SPONSORED BY CIA's FORD FOUNDATION?

by bob feldman

Part 10:

POLITICAL RESEARCH ASSOCIATES' EDELMAN-BUNDY CONNECTION

In a 1998 book that was subsidized by the MacArthur Foundation, the Lyndon Baines Johnson Foundation and The Rockefeller Foundation, entitled THE COLOR OF TRUTH: MC GEORGE BUNDY AND WILLIAM BUNDY: BROTHERS IN ARMS, a contributing editor of Katrina vanden Heuvel's NATION magazine, Kai Bird, recalled that in June 1968, then-Ford Foundation President McGeorge "Bundy arranged fellowships totaling $131,000 for eight members of" the mysteriously-slain Robert F. "Kennedy's campaign staff."

Bird also noted that recipients "included Frank Mankiewicz ($15,000 for a study of the Peace Corps in Latin America), Adam Walinsky ($22,200 for a study of community action programs) and Peter Edelman ($19,090 for a study of community development programs around the world)."

In recent years Peter Edelman has been sitting on the board of a foundation, the Public Welfare Foundation, which subsidizes the alternative media work of Chip Berlet's Political Research Associates [PRA] group. In 2002, for instance, Peter Edelman's Public Welfare Foundation gave a $50,000 grant to Political Research Associates to provide "general support for research center that collects and disseminates information on extremist groups and provides information and training to local, state, and national organizations working to counter extremist activity."

PRA's form 990 also indicates at least $90,000 in additional grant money was given to Political Research Associates by Peter Edelman's Public Welfare Foundation between 1993 and 1996; and in 1999, another grant of $50,000 was given to the Political Research Associates group by the Public Welfare Foundation.

Prior to working as a staffperson for RFK and then receiving his Ford Foundation fellowship from former National Security Affairs advisor Bundy, Public Welfare Foundation board member Edelman worked as a law clerk to a Supreme Court Justice named Arthur Goldberg. According to the 1982 book Rooted In Secrecy: The Clandestine Element in Australian Politics by Joan Coxsedge: "Arthur Goldberg, the General Counsel of the CIO engineered the expulsion of the Left from this organization...After the left-wing purge of the CIO, Goldberg worked to achieve union with the conservative American Federation of Labor [AFL] headed by rabid anti-communist and long-time CIA stooge, George Meany, and what was left of the CIO."


etc. etc.

...

Coincidentally, in recent months Berlet joined PROGRESSIVE magazine editor Rothschild in attempting to smear and marginalize 9/11 conspiracy journalists and researchers, while apparently failing to do much political research into possible links between the Ford Foundation, the Trilateral Commission, the Carlyle Group and/or the Bush White House.

http://www.questionsquestions.net/feldman/feldman10.html


In other words, hit and run journalism isn't evidence of the veracity or falseness of certain ideas.

Lots of interviews are completely set up to discredit people, because they can't really discredit ideas.

And whole social movements are set up in this vein as well. How many of us knew this?

newswire article coverage united states 06.Feb.2005 00:03
gender & sexuality | media criticism | police / legal
Feminist Gloria Steinem of the CIA: "Ms. Immanuel Goldstein" attracting/guiding dissent
author: astounding, as not seen on TV

...writer and consulting editor for Ms, which she cofounded in 1972--and CIA background. She became a media darling due to her CIA connections.

MS Magazine, which she edited for many years was indirectly funded by the CIA. Steinem has tried to suppress this information, unearthed in the 1970's by a radical feminist group called "Red Stockings", which she was actually observing /witnessing. In 1979, Steinem and her powerful CIA-connected friends, Katharine Graham of the Washington Post and Ford Foundation President Franklin Thomas prevented Random House from publishing it in "Feminist Revolution."

Nevertheless the story appeared in the "Village Voice" on May 21, 1979.


THE CIA SPONSORSHIP MEDIA EMPIRE: CIA's Cord Meyers ---> CIA Clay Felker (Esquire Magazine, others) ---> Gloria Steinem (Ms. Magazine) ---> Ms.'s first publisher, Elizabeth Forsling Harris, CIA-connected PR executive/planner of John Kennedy's Dallas motorcade route on which he was assassinated.

'In 1958, Steinem was recruited by CIA's Cord Meyers to direct an "informal group of activists" called the "Independent Research Service." This was part of Meyer's "Congress for Cultural Freedom," which created magazines like "Encounter" and "Partisan Review" to promote a left-liberal chic to oppose Marxism. Steinem, attended Communist-sponsored youth festivals in Europe, published a newspaper, reported on other participants, and helped to provoke riots. One of Steinem's CIA colleagues was Clay Felker. In the early 1960's, he became an editor at Esquire and published articles by Steinem which established her as a leading voice for women's lib. In 1968, as publisher of New York Magazine, he hired her as a contributing editor, and then editor of Ms. Magazine in 1971. Warner Communications put up almost all the money although it only took 25% of the stock. Ms. Magazine's first publisher was Elizabeth Forsling Harris, a CIA-connected PR executive who planned John Kennedy's Dallas motorcade route.'


"Real culture" is hard to get in this synthetically steered morass called the USA:

Back to the paper:

Moreover, in the short section of that referenced paper, they don't deal with the fact that there was no thermate noted on all the cars that I saw.

http://janedoe0911.tripod.com/StarWarsBeam5.html

Nor does the paper deal with the known technologies of what happens when you microwave steel, which seems to explain many cars strange melted engine inside damage (while the car body is whole!).

So I'm not particuarly convinced that his logic (as it is so dependent upon a theorectical dream world he utilizes instead of really looking at particular physical items) is rigorous even if his physics might be on the limited areas he goes into.

Moreover his conclusion is rather strange:

Sublevel collapses together with minimal surface debris easily account for all the debris from the WTC towers, WTC 4, WTC 3, and holes in WTC 6. [Hardly, because there is no debris at the base of WTC6, it blew up out of the roof.]

The percentage of iron in dust samples shows that no significant amount of steel was dissociated into dust. The minimum amount of power required to dissociate the steel in one of the WTC towers is astronomically large,...


...though with HAARP of course in the U.S. military's own literature, they note that HAARP provides a manner in which to substitute nuclear bomb tests. Kid. You. Not. (cite: Angels Don't Play This HAARP)

In other words a theoratical model based world, instead of a physical evidence based world is all we mostly get from that article.

It does no examination on material evidence and instead seeks to describe how to explain it without looking at it: bizarre car damage, particularly cars flaming alone on streets covered with paper--with the paper that is not in flames, is a "hello! wake up!" sort of evidence that he leaves out. No thermate on melted cars is another sort of dead ringer.

When he leaves out physical information "to prove or disprove theories theoretically" he isn't proving anything except how Procrustian or casuistic he can be, or he might be looking for a job at Popular Mechanics (given their hit and run casuistic pieces of late, done under editorship of a direct family relative of Homeland Security Head, Chertoff.)

Thus, for me the jury is still out on microwave weaponry given the cars and the spire issue, and the known microwaving of steel technology that is available, as well as the U.S. military's own views on what HAARP can do: substitute for a nuclear pulse in tests.

The military says the HAARP system could:

* Give the military a tool to replace the electromagnetic pulse effect of atmospheric thermonuclear devices (still considered a viable option by the military through at least 1986)


http://haarp.net/

The journal piece talks of directed energy weapons though in my scroll through it doesn't talk about microwaves which is just another form of casuistry.

As "official protest truth" has hardly touched the micronuke seismic evidence with a ten foot pole, much less the case for inline CGI manipulations of some of the more dramatic replayed images on 9-11, as well as it won't touch the obvious missle damage to the Pentagon (no Boeing there), who knows what game their playing at. Though it's not a winning one so far.

4/07/2007 10:42:00 AM  
Blogger Mark said...

Just in case most don't know that very useful word 'casuistry', casuistry is used a lot in most polished 'debunking 'attempts at more tangible 9-11 tangible information:

cas·u·ist·ry /ˈkæʒuəstri/
1. specious, deceptive, or oversubtle reasoning, esp. in questions of morality; fallacious or dishonest application of general principles; sophistry.

4/07/2007 10:57:00 AM  
Blogger #1 Sniffer said...

Mark said: “As "official protest truth" has hardly touched the micronuke seismic evidence with a ten foot pole, much less the case for inline CGI manipulations of some of the more dramatic replayed images on 9-11, as well as it won't touch the obvious missle damage to the Pentagon (no Boeing there), who knows what game their playing at. Though it's not a winning one so far.”

Mark:

Who is “official protest truth”? (sounds like the Jeffisms "classic truth" "awful truth" "new truth") etc.

Certainly the missile in the Pentagon is covered well including in several well-known books and documentaries. You explain in another post that while Alex Jones doesn’t focus on it he doesn’t run from it either, rather he prefers focusing on the WTC. Hey there’s just too much data for anyone to cover everything.

As to micronukes and other advanced weaponry, who knows enough about that to touch it with any comfort? Not many, over most of us' heads.

And as to “truth” not being a winning game so far, I would disagree. There is a big groundswell building despite a controlled media. These things take some time to take concrete form though I share your impatience

You said “…he [Dr. Jenkins] doesn't even talk about microwaves.”

Mark, please…Dr. Jenkins does and not just in passing. In his paper (The Overwhelming Implausibility of Using Directed Energy Beams to Demolish the World Trade Center Towers) he specifically states (pages 6 and 7) there are two types of beams: proton and photon (which include microwaves), rules out the first category and rules in microwaves as a possibility, but then debunks their use due to reflectivity issues in the towers, the extreme energy required to vaporize structural steel in only seconds (thousands of earths worth of power), with or without advanced or even “secret” technology, which he also discusses.

He says “Recall that we need thousands of earths worth of power” – see page 11, and he points out that such outputs of energy would have vaporized not just steel but people in the immediate environment which there is no evidence of having occurred, and please don’t get smart with me like our Pentagon folks and say there isn’t evidence BECAUSE it all vaporized). Here’s his quote (my emphasis in bold):

“…There are only two types of directed energy beams: those that have mass (particle beams such as protons, ions, neutral atoms, or electrons) and those that do not have mass (photons). Particle beams can be ruled out based upon direct observation…We are left with photon beams which include any part of the electromagnetic spectrum (microwaves, infrared, visible, x-rays, etc.). Visible light, which has a small wavelength compared to the dust size, did not penetrate the smoke and dust as observed in photographs. There is a physical principle behind this phenomenon. If the wavelength of the photon is about the same size or smaller than the dust, then the photons, much like the particle beams, would necessarily collide and scatter imparting momentum to the dust. In order to avoid appreciable scattering from the dust, the wavelength would have to be roughly ten times the size of the dust in the air. …”

Mark said: “...though with HAARP of course in the U.S. military's own literature, they note that HAARP provides a manner in which to substitute nuclear bomb tests. Kid. You. Not. (cite: Angels Don't Play This HAARP). In other words a theoratical model based world, instead of a physical evidence based world is all we mostly get from that article. It does no examination on material evidence and instead seeks to describe how to explain it without looking at it: bizarre car damage, particularly cars flaming alone on streets covered with paper--with the paper that is not in flames, is a "hello! wake up!" sort of evidence that he leaves out….When he leaves out physical information "to prove or disprove theories theoretically" he isn't proving anything”

Very well stated Mark except for one problem, it is not inaccurate. He does examine HAARP (pages 7, 11, 17, 18), does examine the material evidence, paper (pages 1, 3, 4, 13, 14, 15, 25, 26, 28, 29, 30), and cars charred (pages 1, 5, 7, 8, 13, 14, 28, 29 – with even a photo of a burning car on p.29) with unburned paper too close to it, etc. For example charred cars on page 13:

“Explosives or thermate can reach temperatures above the vaporization point of steel. Localized hot spots after and during the collapse, could account for the burning of some cars and other material in the area. Furthermore, debris impacting vehicles can smash gas tanks and oil pans releasing highly combustible fluids in the vicinity of other vehicles. Any sufficient heat or spark can ignite the flammable fluids such as burning paper40 or hot metal (a photograph of a ‘localized hot spot’ is in reference 37). Adjacent vehicles may be scorched by flames from burning vehicles by varying amounts and burn patterns, or may even ignite themselves (see pictures in reference 37 for a specific example). Directed energy beams are not needed to explain burning cars and trucks. Evidence suggests that the charred cars that were located on FDR drive were towed to that location from the vicinity of ground zero."

To your “with the paper that is not in flames, is a "hello! wake up!" --- the following is from Dr. Jenkins’ discussion of paper on page 13 which you may not agree with it but must agree he at least certainly considered it:

“Paper can act as a "sail". That is, it has a large surface area and low weight. A large blast of air, either from the displacement of air from the collapse or conventional explosives, can push the paper efficiently. For example, some paper is observed leading the dust during the collapse. Not all of the paper was blown out of the building and survived. I would suppose some, or more likely most, of the paper was incinerated40 or merely trapped within the falling debris.”

On the contrary it was Dr. Judy Wood who specifically refused to discuss physical evidence when it was Dr. Greg Jenkings who invited her to do that. This scientist (Dr. Judy Wood) even finally in exasperation said something like “let’s not get distracted with the data” more than once and my jaw dropped each time. But this is what you had to say about that interview:

“Why are you so interested in that interview? I don't know why you (or anyone should) ha(a)rp on hit and run interview journalism as proving anything. It's non sequitur. If things were true based on how loud someone got, then FOX news would win every argument… which is rather boring and doesn't do anything useful except make them look even more like charlatans. Most journalism or staged fights like that have nothing to do with establishing whether something is true or false.”


Obviously you didn’t watch it (and you’re not obligated to), but are passing judgment on it anyway at your own risk.

To label it as “hit and run interview journalism” or say “if things were true based on how loud someone got” or “charlatans” or “staged fights” and “Lots of interviews are completely set up to discredit people, because they can't really discredit ideas“ without watching it, truly amazes me and I expected more from you.

Dr. Jenkins noted early in the interview that Dr. Wood had invented a new term, “dustify” to describe what happened to WTC structural steel. She smiled and admitted introducing that term in her paper as an essential basis of her theory. Yet when Dr. Jenkins asked her to define what it meant it in scientific terms, after all she is a physicist and it was a most relevant point, she got uncomfortable and changed the subject. She couldn’t define it! Is that ambush journalism?

Time after time it was her refusing to get pinned down on any data, and even claimed it was irrelevant! When asked pointed questions about specific data claimed she hadn’t seen the data in a while and couldn’t remember it, though she had just finished delivering a lecture on her theory (the interview was literally backstage after some lectures of several researchers), and I’m not making this up.

This and more is why the interview is so revealing, which is why not just the physical matters, but human interactions/debate about it do often have validity and help shed light on it, the physical.

Mark said: “The military says the HAARP system could: Give the military a tool to replace the electromagnetic pulse effect of atmospheric thermonuclear devices (still considered a viable option by the military through at least 1986”

I think you said the key word, “could” but Jenkins’ paper says that even if HAARP “could” generate the required amount of energy (itself doubtful, “we need thousands of earths worth of power” to vaporize that much steel in seconds), that the satellite that reflects the beam precisely back to earth, i.e., the mirror, would need such massive energy to counterbalance the force of the energy beam (since it itself has mass) and to keep the satellite in place, that without that counterbalancing energy would be pushed into the vacuum of space at hundreds of thousands of km per hour. He provides the exact calculations needed to support that.

As to advanced weapons beyond these you allude to, how do you know they exist? Or could they be based on similar information as what Dr. Wood is here presenting?

4/07/2007 05:07:00 PM  
Blogger Mark said...

"He provides the exact calculations needed to support that."

Um, see definition of casuistry once more.

Wasn't it Mark Twain who said "figures don't lie, though liars sure can figure?"

The history of such theoretical argumentation and statistics has always gone hand in hand with politics or sales instead of been neutral. (cite: interesting book, the History of the Modern Fact). And most of modern statistical calculation techniques actually came out of the eugenics movement and the artificial fertilizer industry--which were hugely overlapped--("Improvement, Inc." don't you know) around a huge English agricultural test plot and of course the English/America/German test plots of eugenic politics. (See Ronald Fisher for some overlaps few comment upon.)

I mentioned the car (and fire engine) photos aren't "charred" (which is Jenkins's one word misrepresentation for a quite different variety of effects, none of which I would ever call "charred"; and they don't have heaps of thermite iron on them). This is obviously some strange usage of the word "charred" that I was unaware of that means "melted internally" i.e., as melted/missing engines internally and other strange effects.

No. My critique was based on Jenkins overconfident assumption that he has access to the full larder of strange technologies to choose from to discuss in thirty pages, not based on my assumption that I did. What does that 3 trillion missing Pentagon dollars go to? Others imply the black budget is around 500 billion or more a year (i.e., Phil Schneider).

My critique was based on his additional use of setting out a theoretical model of assumption of what happened, and then attempting to show what didn't from that abstraction, instead of working from the data.

As for the term "official protest truth" I mean the limited spiel of attempting to place it all in various mutually exclusive explanans which Dr. Jones (and many it seems, Jeff inclusive, Holmgren, Nico, etc. many of them) seems quite overconfident of. I never claimed to have the full evidence, though Jenkins hilariously does. See "casuistry" once more. I'm just fascinated how few comment that much of the different mutually exclusive arguments about 9-11 evidence hangs together, while their champions argue against each other.

And FOR a theoretical critique, I disagree that the current above the board physics he uses is a complete perspective either. (Re-enter Tesla, Peter Lindeman, Tom Bearden, the E. V. Gray motor, etc.) Thermodynamics and juggling heat don't seem to be all there is in this universe.

I'm not very convinced of abstract theoretical perspectives--that only after they are set up--attempt to explain evidence in preconceived terms. Science is testing your framework, instead of simply applying it. It should be the other way around. He sort of "explains" the spire issue by sort of claiming it was theoretically impossible, so it ergo "can't be true." That's not saying much beyond "tautology is true."

So if I don't want to watch a Punch and Judy show you linked to by someone I don't really trust (Jenkins), forgive me. I'll judge him from what he wrote, the way he argued, and the evidence he employs, instead of how well he mudwrestles women he disagrees with. And after reading him, I don't see much interesting in watching him think in public.

And the issue that interests me, who is Jenkins to be so interested in trashing this woman? That's what interests me more. Why is is so important to trash her? Why not spend one's time popularizing thermite issues with others, instead of attacking someone to attempt to establish an official truth?

Foucault said somewhere, "let him (her) talk, we aren't the police, let someone else be concerned with credentials."

4/07/2007 09:42:00 PM  
Blogger #1 Sniffer said...

Mark, it sounds like you made up your mind and that’s fine. As they say “you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink it.” (and I’m not referring to a poisoned well either but to a cool fresh spring with a young smelly mare at the other side, but oh well).

Mark said: “And the issue that interests me, who is Jenkins to be so interested in trashing this woman?“

First Dr. Greg Jenkins appears to be a bright and quite young physics professor at the Univ of Maryland who is a member of Scholars For 911, and Dr. Stephen Jones spoke highly of him and his paper. Jenkins has joined the pool of qualified scientists willing to speak out in public about 911 truth in ways that expose the government official story. Dr. Jones said that Rosie O’Donnel had invited him (Jones) to her show next week but that it wasn’t decided yet whether he or Dr. Jenkins would make that appearance. If the show comes about (ABC had to sign off on it) it could be an interesting 911 media week. Based on the interview I'd say Jenkins would make a more polished media appearance for the 911 truth movement.

Second, Jenkins wasn’t “trashing this woman,” he was courteously interviewing a physics professor who published an important theory attempting to explain 911 (and was also female), about her theory.

But you plainly admit to not seeing the interview thus persisting in, yes, approaching Jeff-like selectivity of evidence, i.e., "cherry-picking," before jumping to erroneous conclusions (about the interview). Tell me it ain’t so, Mark!

It doesn’t personally matter to me if you see the interview or not, but I suggest you do see it before “trashing” it, or if you choose not to see it just then not “trash” it or Jenkins, because otherwise that selectivity with evidence, combined with passing definitive judgment on it, only begins to reflect poorly on you.

Jenkins to his credit was a gentleman with her throughout, but it wasn’t his fault she was so ill-prepared and unable to answer simple questions he never even got to ask difficult ones. It started to appear to me at least like she couldn’t possibly be a scientist and was expecting just a journalist interviewer, someone she could bs all day but instead got a real physicist.

Maybe that’s why she labeled it an “ambush” interview, but imo if she publishes a significant scientific theory explaining an event of historical world importance, one that in effect also accuses government officials of high treason, she better be prepared to be grilled on it anytime. If she can’t she’s asking for trouble.

Another example of what typified the interview. For a while, Dr. Judy Wood actually appeared resistant to admitting the WTC towers “collapsed” because her theory contends that a large part of WTC evaporated, or “dustified,” (a new physics term she invented).

She admitted “dustify” was a new term she coined, so Jenkins naturally asked her what it meant. She wavered but in the end didn’t answer, and it wasn’t for lack of opportunity. Jenkins showed her a picture from her own web site of one of the towers during collapse, pointed to the massive cloud of falling debris, and asked her if that debris was falling down wasn’t that a sign of “collapse.” Good basic question she brought on herself but easy to answer I thought, but at this she actually began to argue the debris wasn’t really falling down! (and I realize that’s hard to swallow, you just have to see it for yourself).

I can’t blame Jenkins for being surprised at this and more, I’m sure he had no expectation these weird things would come up from a scientist. Who could? So he asked her what seems logical, if she was saying it wasn’t falling down was she suggesting the debris was falling up or what, and noted conversationally that to him it was clearly falling down.

She began to argue yes, it was falling up, as fine dust and was being scattered all over North America. He then asked, what about the picture, what about all the thousands of tons of debris within the cloud [coming down]? Was she saying that wasn’t really coming down. Even to something like that she waffled way too long.

She was so unprepared something looked real fishy, like maybe she’s one of those intelligence spooks with an ill-fitting incorrect assignment or costume, one over her head, I don’t know.

Or maybe she was just a woman scientist having a bad day (but if so I haven’t seen evidence of her later trying to set the record straight on any misunderstanding of the facts she created, and it was all her creation).

But I have seen evidence of her lashing out at Jenkins who wasn’t unfair to her, through a third party (an Andrew Johnson), and attempting to play victim to cover her inadequate presentation but in essence not disputing the facts).

It’s also interesting she’s become a member of Scholars for 911, which in view of all the above smells of an improperly placed spook attempting infiltration into the 911 truth movement. I will add if she is a spook, the CIA or whatever agency it is must be having serious recruiting problems.

This doesn't mean to imply I’m “mutually excluding” the existence of advanced energy weapons and other Tesla based or other technologies just because of Dr. Judy Wood, I'm not,and it is an issue that fascinates me, but that appears a separate topic in light of this data.

And so I think it’s tempting for all of us to want to find validation for hidden tech in the real world and suddenly this Dr. Judy Wood pops up, so persuasively (at first) offers to serve it to us that we can already smell and taste it.

Except she still has to make her case objectively and pass scrutiny, but she doesn’t. The kid in me that wants to learn about wondrous new technology wants her to be right, but the adult and "911 truther" in me while wanting to make the kid happy, insists on vigilance, and the truth, whatever it may be.

So I’m very open to any factual responses she may have to refute Jenkins’ charges, which if she is right as she claims, and is who she says, she should be able to easily provide.

And because she was challenged so directly, so publicly, on it, it seems she should naturally feel so insulted she'd also feel obligated to thoroughly refute the challenge and kick Jenkins’ ass. If Jenkins is/was wrong, he deserves it and I'll help her.

So you’d think she would have published a comprehensive devastating rebuttal by now and placed it as a headline in her website. Don’t you agree? Has she done this? If so, I haven't seen it. And if I missed it, please give me a link to it, so I along with Jenkins can be straightened out asap and stop making fools of ourselves.

We’re not physicists, we’re “consumers” of her recent physics product release. If she’s right and Jenkins is wrong we need her help to tell us exactly why that is, since it’s her product. But if wrong she needs to be unceremoniously exposed so many are not needlessly deceived, hummiliated, discredited, or sent on a long wild goose chase.

In law there is a time-tested principle that if you are charged and you do not dispute the charge in a reasonable time, it’s accepted as an admission (and constitutes valid evidence of) guilt.

I’m sure this principle has it’s parallels in academia and life in general. So I hope she responds soon. I think I'll try to communicate my concerns directly to her.

4/08/2007 04:19:00 AM  
Blogger ericswan said...

Tsoldrin posted a link just above your comments that would have quelled your argument. Hutchison has be Powderizing metals (see the vid's on Tsoldrin's link 3 and 4).

Sniffer.. The point I would make and is inferred by Mark is "keep and open mind". I've seen the pix of WTC with the beams slashed and melted at a diagonal but thermate is not the only tech that was employed to bring the buildings down in their own footprint and actually disapate materials into the tub you mentioned at a depth of 5 or 6 floors. Something else is going on. It reminds me of the the Hiroshima attack. The war was over and Japan had capitulated but they still went ahead with the "experiment".

Please remind yourself of what looked like a person or more than one persons standing in the gap of this so called inferno. Many people did jump to their deaths but the question is was there really that much heat and fire to cause that to happen? Some have suggested that the fuel would have mostly been exhausted in the impact and initial explosion. I would question whether there ever was a raging inferno. I posted the link some time back of the blueprints for WTC which are found at www.wtc7.net. These are the same people who you defend as being the scientific professionals that have it all figured out. The problem is that Physics has been spoon fed dogma for a century and professionals simply are not trained but have been brainwashed into not seeing scalar effects. It's like the believing the universe is expanding because we can see red-shift. The fact is we see red shift because the universe is bent (like a rainbow) and when you know that, then you know "the rest of the story" which is what Whitley Streiber and antigravity groups including Lazar is going on about which in your terms of photon weapons can in my terms be time travel.

Hutchison effect achieved in a small apartment by one man with no money. See the video as it is only a couple of minutes long and then go on about Jenkins and his "we have hit the wall on knowledge" and this is the end of the story.

Tsoldrin... thanks for putting up that website. I particularily liked the work that Farrel is doing at his blog and his books. There are a remarkable number of smart people out there and the thing that makes them most remarkable is their courage.

4/08/2007 04:21:00 AM  
Blogger #1 Sniffer said...

ericswan said...” The point I would make and is inferred by Mark is "keep and open mind".”

Hi Eric, I think you’re referring to the fact I am not impressed with Dr. Judy Wood’s theory which Mark advanced (but I believe you gave him the original link on it), and I suspect you’re here equating “open mind” with agreeing with you and Mark.

But if you read what I said (and I realize that may be asking a lot), you’ll see my objection was not over the existence of scalar technology, which I am prepared to accept exists, but whether it was used on 911, which is another thing, and that has not been shown by Dr. Judy Wood. This Dr. Greg Jenkins whom you imply is brainwashed in conventional science (and you may or may not be right about that), may still be capable of smoking out bad or inexistent science by Dr. Judy Wood, if she’s not the real deal, which is what appears is the case to me.

If Jenkins was so brainwashed, he should not have had such an easy time totally stumping her with simple questions since by definition she has a much superior understanding of things. She should have run circles around him, not the other way around. But since she didn’t, if she was only having a bad day (on the interview), she could at least by now, since the whole integrity of her work was challenged, have published a rebuttal paper to his paper and to the substance of the interview. But no, she’s been silent for 3 months promoting MP3’s about peace in her front page while her professional credibility was questioned. Her failure to refute or attempt to refute is very telling imho.

“It reminds me of the the Hiroshima attack. The war was over and Japan had capitulated but they still went ahead with the "experiment"

What evil sob’s! But that was in 1945, and maybe they’re still experimenting, but how do you know such weapons were used on 911? Is it just based on Dr. Judy Wood’s work? If not, what? If so, then I think there’s a basic problem with her work, it's flawed.

“I would question whether there ever was a raging inferno.”

That’s probably correct, and maybe scalar weapons were used but the mere absence of a raging inferno is not evidence of such weapons. Rather that lack of heat is consistent with isolated initial fires slowly going out and then boom! controlled demolitions including thermate were detonated. The evidence cited by Dr. Wood can all be explained by that.

“I posted the link some time back of the blueprints for WTC which are found at www.wtc7.net. These are the same people who you defend as being the scientific professionals that have it all figured out.”

I don’t know what you’re referring to, or why you keep mentioning the blueprints (I responded to your initial question to me about them), and I’ve not claimed any scientific professionals have it all figured out. ???

I think the biggest problem as to who did it has been solved. The rest are details.

4/08/2007 06:06:00 AM  
Blogger Mark said...

But you plainly admit to not seeing the interview thus persisting in, yes, approaching Jeff-like selectivity of evidence, i.e., "cherry-picking," before jumping to erroneous conclusions (about the interview). Tell me it ain’t so, Mark!

Please don't play word games with me or twist what I endeavored to say and say alone:

I explained that I didn't find his paper convincing and in some parts it seems entirely misleading (particularly on the energy quotients dealing with even public microwaving of steel technologies for foundries which can heat steel to molten in a matter of minutes.) Therefore, I'm not very inclined to hear him out.

It has nothing to do with the interview. Alternatively, if I had seen the interview first, I would probably disinclined to read his paper, for the same rationale. Though I read the paper first, and didn't find it much except casuistry.

Another historical "interview" that decided nothing. Galileo had an interview with the Pope over whether the solar system and whole universe was humanocentric or just heliocentric. The Pope won the interview. It didn't change the fact that the Pope was wrong and entirely out of his element. Jenkins reminds me of that. Other people were publicly burned for claiming there was no center to anything. thus, a pope burning Giordano Bruno didn't change that Bruno was closer to being right either. Same with however well Jenkins may pull it off on camera: the interview has nothing to do with anything. It's a red herring.

Moreover, as I said, I don't see interviews set up like bugs in a jar between different mutually exclusive portenders as ever going to decide anything, particularly (gasp!) if both may be right.

Moreover, as I said, I don't like the status that any group would start to spend its time trashing another group instead of researching 9-11. I don't think, given all the 'car evidence', molten engine blocks, and huge seismic whallops that occurred at the base of the buildings BEFORE the buildings came down, that the idea of Jenkins of "writing everything off to thermate" is a sound premise.

For a "9-11 scholars group," to waste its precious time taking on a public relations debunking job instead of a research job, that's terrible and that's what suspicious to me. Though it's not surprising since as Holmgren notes, even co-founder Dr. Stephen Jones is not forthright about other things outside of his mutually exclusive research on thermate.

Jenkins's whole paper is not "9-11 research", it is casuistry against another position. Though I'm not going to repeat myself ad infinitum on the topic. Just read above.

If we all quit researching and gossiping about researchers, we would have more time to research the evidence instead.

Suggestion: what else do people think created the seismic shocks in the basements of WTC1 and WTC2 seconds before they collapsed except:

1. micronukes and/or

2. HAARP scalar warfare

Even before the demolitions, there were explosions even before the planes hit, which only connects with multiple witnesses to the same (see link).

Title: The seismic readings of explosions happened before 9-11 planes hit WTCs
Author: Craig T. Furlong, with others
Date: 2006.07.26 04:32
Description: The official 9/11 Commission Report (your tax dollars wasted) states the following: 8:46:40 a.m.: Impact time, WTC1 9:03:11 a.m.: Impact time, WTC2 .......HOWEVER, official data give seismic events of: 8:46:26 a.m.: 0.9 Richter, signal duration 12 seconds [reported as first impact, WTC1] 9:02:54 a.m.: 0.7 Richter, signal duration 6 seconds [reported as second impact, WTC2] Conclusion: Two notable seismic events occurred before the planes ever hit,...were so close timewise to the actual impacts of the planes that Lamont-Doherty falsely reported them as the impacts. Instead, they corroborate evidence of pre-demolition explosions in the basements, as multiple eyewitnesses reported and which MSNBC and CNN, even though both aware of this, refused to cover the story. The logical conclusion--which coincides with AT LEAST FOUR willing EYEWITNESSES to pre-explosions in the basements in the testimony of William Rodriquez, Mike Pecoraro, Phillip Morelli, and Jose Sanchez (and up to 14 other known eyewitnesses yet to make public statements)--is that the pre-explosives detonated before aircraft even hit, later falsely blamed on the aircraft--though the latter is a poor and transparent alibi when times noted, even poorer alibi combined with many eyewitnesses to pre-demolition basement explosions, long before the towers were demolished.


Suggestion: what else do you think melted car engine blocks or caused the steel spire to evaporate into air, except:

1. microwaves

2. scalar warfare

3. HAARP

4. short term alpha radiation

5. the StayPuft Marshmellow Man.

HAARP Conspiracy Part 1
09:05
Dean Stockwell and Martin Sheen [interestingly enough, eh?] present the facts about HAARP, and the lies that somebody in the government is telling the American public and the world.

The military says the HAARP system could:

* Give the military a tool to replace the electromagnetic pulse effect of atmospheric thermonuclear devices (still considered a viable option by the military through at least 1986)

http://haarp.net/

HAARP itself originally (in its own patents, described in the video clip) was aimed at intercepting and destroying/exploding missiles. What's to stop it being focused down on the planet, say, at a geographic earthquake fault like, or say, in the basement of the WTC?

That's called radio tomography. And HAARP can do tomography. So, just pump up the watts into radio tomography and you can explode particular physical things assuredly underground, i.e., particularly hitting only steel frequencies in a particular area? Watch the video.

All you have to do it just scan via tomography, get the reverberatory frequency off the WTC, identify it, and then pump up the watts in that frequency and feed it back to the same coordinates--or whenever you want--and it would certainly heat up almost instantaneously. Tailor made heat inducing demolitions.

Listen about geophysical warfare--that the U.S. was already working on from the 1950s and 1960s.

(The clip ends at this point, though you can find the full 1 hour video of _HAARP: Holes in Heaven_ elsewhere. (Though it's been deleted from Video Google it seems.)

4/09/2007 05:19:00 PM  
Blogger #1 Sniffer said...

Mark, not to beat a dead horse but thanks for again admitting you didn't see the interview and still pass categorical judgment on it, by insisting again it was a setup and trashing of someone even when told by someone who had seen it that it wasn't that. That takes courage and determination. Apparently nothing stands in your way, not even facts.

Another fact is Dr. Wood advanced a big theory, failed to competently support it in an interview, then saw a formal peer-reviewed 30-page physics paper published questioning the basis of everything she said.

Has she responded with a peer-reviewed paper of her own, hell I'll take a little web page article, anything? Nope.

At least Jenkins isn't afraid to publish his arguments and show how he arrived at them, and to be scrutinized.

But I do note when you think someone like her is being "trashed," even though Dr. Judy Wood wasn't, but the important point is you believe she is, you don't like it.

So you being a fair person would probably condemn her too if she suddenly resorted to "trashing" people baselessly, right?

Well it appears she joined Scholars for 911 (the group Dr. Steven Jones helped found) and for most of 2006 has been extensively "trashing" Dr. Jones (her, Jim Fetzer, and Morgan Reynolds).

AFTER THOROUGH DR. JUDY WOOD "TRASHING" OF DR. JONES, ORIGINAL FOUNDING MEMBER TO EXHAUSTION FOR ABOUT A YEAR, JONES FINALLY RESIGNS SCHOLARS FOR 911, FORMS HIS OWN GROUP "SCHOLARS FOR 911 TRUTH AND JUSTICE" IN DECEMBER 2006 (I.E., SCHOLARS FOR 911 WAS INFILTRATED AND TAKEN OVER BY DR. JUDY WOOD AND JIM FETZER!!)

"Reply to Reynolds & Wood, by Steven E. Jones 8/25/2006, Updated 8/31"
http://stj911.org/jones/Jones_Replyto_Reynolds_Wood.html

"Morgan Reynolds and Judy Wood have posted the essay “The Trouble with Steven E. Jones' 9/11 Research.” Of course, I will reply and add to my reply as I have time."

"I would like to emphasize at the outset that Reynolds and Wood and I agree on the fundamental matter that the WTC Towers and WTC 7 were brought down by controlled demolition rather than by damage + fires. That is, we unitedly disagree with the official “conspiracy theory” that nineteen hijackers managed to get through the multi-trillion-dollar air defense system, and managed also to completely bring down these skyscrapers on 9/11. The details, HOW this was actually done, we disagree on."

"I will also observe that there is a group of 9/11 researchers, including Reynolds, Wood, Haupt and Holmgren, who take the approach of personalized attacks on any other researcher who dares to suggest that real planes hit the Towers. Really – they support the “no-planes-hit-Towers” notion so strongly that they resort to personal attacks on anyone who challenges their pet theory. As I have done. I have been the subject of such attacks for some time now."

"The debate on the “no-planes-hit-Towers” notion is explained further in point #2 below where I suggest the solution is for both sides of this “How it was done” issue to write scholarly papers. Both sides have now done so, and they have submitted their respective papers to the Journal of 9/11 Studies, where the papers (following necessary peer-reviews) are to be published side-by-side. Ad Hominem (attacking the person rather than addressing evidences) arguments will not be allowed in such scholarly papers."

"And so we hope to proceed in the realm of civilized, scientific discussion. For now, I find I must point out the unscholarly ad hominems and false arguments being used against me by the “no-planers” Reynolds and Wood."
------
SOME OF THE SPECIFIC POINTS:

"R&W:[Reynolds & Wood] “Given Professor Jones' enormous popularity in the 9/11 arena, we must undertake the unpleasant task of social analysis. Jones "evokes" the persona of a choirboy and he plays to the gallery. Here is evidence: over half of his slides have no connection with physical science, and instead are political. In effect, they proclaim, "Elect Steve, I wanna be your physicist, I'm a NICE guy." The clutter in Jones' presentation ranges all over the map: Jones proudly points to "growing investigative support at BYU" [pdf (7/19/06) p. 44], a sympathy-soliciting but phony-sounding email threatening negative consequences and promising bribes (I'm a victim, I'm courageous),"

Jones:"Those were real emails which threatened me – what do they mean “phony-sounding” and “sympathy-soliciting”? Choirboy? ...What nonsense and drivel. Worthless attacks."

"Such nonsense tends to lead the careful searcher for 9/11 truth away from my contributions with colleagues, such as x-ray fluorescences analysis of WTC dust and slag samples, and the actual color of falling, poured-out liquid aluminum as opposed to liquid iron from thermite reactions (experiments done at BYU, with the best photos we could get as physicists.) Where does the fluorine come from? The titanium? The 1,3 diphenylpropane? Why are these contributions by me (and co-workers) ignored by R&W?"

"And why do R&W promote the idea that the flowing metal coming out of the Tower was aluminum, while at the same time promoting the notion that no jets actually hit the Towers? That is, the OGCT is that aluminum from the planes melted and this is the flowing metal – so where, R&W, does this aluminum come from if you disagree with the idea that planes hit the Towers? (Several 9/11 truth-seekers emailed me and pointed out the evident discrepancy in the logic of R&W.)"

"R&W: “Perhaps Professor Jones' most disturbing offense is failure to verify his data and show reproducibility in his experiments. The origin of his evidence is shadowy, chain of custody unknown, and materials and proof for the testing processes undocumented.”

Jones: "Nonsense. The origins of evidence are given above, the chain of custody is directly to me (see above), documentation given now (above). The data have been verified and reproduced in three different labs using independent methods. It is true that the final paper on the WTC dust and slag analyses has yet to be published – but this is precisely because we are taking pains to verify the data thoroughly. Back off."

"R&W write: “Cold fusion violates standard physics theory because there is no explanation of where the energy might come from to merge nuclei at room temperature.”

Jones: "Their statement above is false. "

"I led a team at Los Alamos Meson Physics Facility which experimentally studied the original cold fusion, called muon-catalyzed fusion, and demonstrated that fusion does indeed occur very rapidly at room temperature and below. (Other physicists had demonstrated the reality of the room-temperature fusion effect before us.) Indeed, we achieved our best results at liquid hydrogen temps, around 21 Kelvin. A little quantum mechanics explains how this works – the deuterons (or deuteron + triton for higher yields) TUNNEL THROUGH THE COULOMB BARRIER. High temperatures are NOT required for fusion. This is not controversial in the physics community, although some may forget about muon-catalyzed room-temperature fusion until one reminds them."

"...OTOH, if R&W insist that “there is no explanation of where the energy might come from to merge nuclei at room temperature,” the proper thing to do is to write up a scientific paper explaining why all of us are wrong about fusion at room temperature and submit it to Europhysics Letters or Z. Phys. or one of the other Journals listed above. (Good luck.)"

"“No-planes-hit-the-Towers theory” "R&W come back repeatedly to this theme:

"R&W: "Jones neglects laws of physics and physical evidence regarding impossible WTC big plane crashes in favor of curt dismissal of the no-planes-theory (NPT). He relies on "soft" evidence like videos, eyewitnesses, planted evidence and unverified black boxes. When others challenge how aluminum wide-body Boeings can fly through steel-concrete walls, floors and core without losing a part, Jones does not turn to physics for refutation but continues to cite eyewitnesses and videos, thereby backing the OGCT.”

"It’s true: I do not accept the no-planes-hit-the-Towers theory which is espoused by R&W and Gerard Holmgren, Rosalee Grable, Nico Haupt, and Killtown – who are listed by R&W as having performed “The only investigation worthy of the name,” according to them. (I disagree.)"

"But I DO turn to physics and to hard physical evidences for refutation of this no-planes notion, right in my paper they cite http://www.journalof911studies.com/JonesAnswersQuestionsWorldTradeCenter.pdf, starting on page 171 in the current version (there is an index at the front). The reader will find there, on the first page of my discussion:"

"R&W: Steven E. Jones, BYU physicist, rocketed to the top of the 9/11 research ladder based on position and credentials. But nearly a year later, his contributions range from irrelevant to redundant to misleading to wrong. He has not turned up a single item of value. The majority of what Jones says is political and his physics is egregiously wrong (SJ: aluminum "cannot" glow yellow in daylight), deceptive (SJ: WTC demolitions can be treated alike), nonexistent (SJ: jet liners crashed into WTC, a jet liner might have crashed into the Pentagon) and shallow (SJ: thermite is key to WTC demolitions). "

"The proof that 9/11 was an inside job was well developed by internet researchers, not academics. The question now is whether participation by academic researchers will hamper or help in expanding our understanding of 9/11 and bringing the perpetrators to justice. Early returns from the most highly sought-after research on 9/11-that of physicist Steven E. Jones-predict little or no good will come from the academic establishment on either 9/11 truth or justice. Proof that government/media lied and 9/11 was an inside job is being confounded and rolled back."

"Critics may claim that we damage Scholars for 9/11 Truth by exposing failings in the work of Steven Jones, its leading physical scientist. Yet the Scholars are "dedicated to exposing falsehoods and to revealing truths." S9/11T is devoted to applying the principles of scientific reasoning to the available evidence, "letting the chips fall where they may."

-------------
BTW, the little video you linked where steel beams are seen to "dustify" is dealt with in this page towards the bottom:

http://stj911.org/legge/Legge_Replyto_Reynolds_Wood.html

4/10/2007 01:07:00 AM  
Blogger Tsoldrin said...

Here's the problem with debating 9/11 theories: Some of us believe that it's pretty much indisputable that the U.S. government had a hand in the attacks, but find many of the 'popular' theories to be unlikely. However, so as not to help the government's case, we must argue about these theories with the proverbial one hand tied behind our backs. Unfair, but perhaps needed.


Fighting chop-stik to sword, and still holding my own, I often pause to wonder, 'why bother?'

Is it really worth it? Is it too obfuscated already? Is it the 'grail' in the scheme of things? Can Truth Prevail, or will it simply be USED?

No answers. One thing is certain and that is that change, in any form, is likely good, so I'll support that view, accuate or not.

4/10/2007 01:52:00 AM  
Blogger ericswan said...

It will be interesting to see just what Congress can do to make BEES pay their due........................

In the meantime, we are receiving news from Washington, through the AP, reporting that the mysterious disappearance of millions of bees throughout the United States has edged beekeepers to the brink of a nervous breakdown and is even cause for concern in Congress, which will discuss this Thursday the critical situation facing this insect, essential to the agricultural sector. According to the report, the first disquieting signs of this enigma became evident shortly after Christmas in the state of Florida, when beekeepers discovered that their bees had vanished without a trace. Since then, the syndrome which experts have christened as Colony Collapse Disorder (CCD) has reduced the country's swarms by 25 percent.

Daniel Weaver, president of the US Beekeepers Association, stated that more than half a million colonies, each with a population of nearly 50 thousand bees, had been lost. He added that the syndrome has struck 30 of the country's 50 states. What is curious about the phenomenon is that, in many cases, the mortal remains of the bees are not found.

According to a study conducted by Cornell University, these industrious insects pollinate crops valued at anywhere from 12 to 14 billion dollars.

Scientists are entertaining all kinds of hypotheses, including the theory that a pesticide may have caused the bees' neurological damage and altered their sense of orientation. Others lay the blame on the drought and even mobile phone waves, but, what's certain is that no one knows exactly what has unleashed this syndrome.




If the glove doesn't fit, you must acquit. We had an interesting development a few years ago where the water quality took a nose dive. The city fathers were looking for a case to borrow 50 million and needed a case to prove that our water quality must be addressed as a health risk. The local Public Health officials developed a story where giiardia and cryptosporidium could not be killed in this turbid water as the doubling and tripling of chlorine was having no effect. They cited a case in Milwaukee, Wisc. where high turbidity led to a city wide outbreak of giiardia. Our city went ahead with the new plant and the turbidity has improved. The fact of the matter is that our water was safe and that the turbidity issue was a spring runoff that sometimes included the waste from agricultural processes upstream. Had they treated the animals better ie..knee deep in their own feces, with humane treatment and their waste with zeolite, we would have killed the proverbial two birds, but the solution was to replace the water treatment plant which will not support the city because it does not have the same capacity we once had.

The moral of the story is that the evidence for high turbidity equals high giiardia that developed out of Milwaukee was false. It turns out that an abbatoir operated by Sara Lea had been sending their waste straight into the great lakes but downstream of the water intake. By coincidence, the downstream source was pushed back to the city water intake by a huge storm which resulted in hundreds of thousands of cases of illness. The evidence never surfaced as Sara Lea settled out of court and the documents were sealed.


The point I'm making (sort of) is that the bees demise will never be known and science will be sent down a cobbled (hobbled) bumpy road to the truth.

4/10/2007 09:05:00 AM  
Blogger ericswan said...

A Call for Manners in the World of Nasty Blogs
By BRAD STONE
Is it too late to bring civility to the Web?

The conversational free-for-all on the Internet known as the blogosphere can be a prickly and unpleasant place. Now, a few high-profile figures in high-tech are proposing a blogger code of conduct to clean up the quality of online discourse.

Last week, Tim O’Reilly, a conference promoter and book publisher who is credited with coining the term Web 2.0, began working with Jimmy Wales, creator of the communal online encyclopedia Wikipedia, to create a set of guidelines to shape online discussion and debate.

Chief among the recommendations is that bloggers consider banning anonymous comments left by visitors to their pages and be able to delete threatening or libelous comments without facing cries of censorship.

A recent outbreak of antagonism among several prominent bloggers “gives us an opportunity to change the level of expectations that people have about what’s acceptable online,” said Mr. O’Reilly, who posted the preliminary recommendations last week on his company blog (radar.oreilly.com). Mr. Wales then put the proposed guidelines on his company’s site (blogging.wikia.com), and is now soliciting comments in the hope of creating consensus around what constitutes civil behavior online.

Mr. O’Reilly and Mr. Wales talk about creating several sets of guidelines for conduct and seals of approval represented by logos. For example, anonymous writing might be acceptable in one set; in another, it would be discouraged. Under a third set of guidelines, bloggers would pledge to get a second source for any gossip or breaking news they write about.

Bloggers could then pick a set of principles and post the corresponding badge on their page, to indicate to readers what kind of behavior and dialogue they will engage in and tolerate. The whole system would be voluntary, relying on the community to police itself.

“If it’s a carefully constructed set of principles, it could carry a lot of weight even if not everyone agrees,” Mr. Wales said.

The code of conduct already has some early supporters, including David Weinberger, a well-known blogger (hyperorg.com/blogger) and a fellow at the Berkman Center for Internet and Society at Harvard Law School. “The aim of the code is not to homogenize the Web, but to make clearer the informal rules that are already in place anyway,” he said.

But as with every other electrically charged topic on the Web, finding common ground will be a serious challenge. Some online writers wonder how anyone could persuade even a fraction of the millions of bloggers to embrace one set of standards. Others say that the code smacks of restrictions on free speech.

Mr. Wales and Mr. O’Reilly were inspired to act after a firestorm erupted late last month in the insular community of dedicated technology bloggers. In an online shouting match that was widely reported, Kathy Sierra, a high-tech book author from Boulder County, Colo., and a friend of Mr. O’Reilly, reported getting death threats that stemmed in part from a dispute over whether it was acceptable to delete the impolitic comments left by visitors to someone’s personal Web site.

Distraught over the threats and manipulated photos of her that were posted on other critical sites — including one that depicted her head next to a noose — Ms. Sierra canceled a speaking appearance at a trade show and asked the local police for help in finding the source of the threats. She also said that she was considering giving up blogging altogether.

In an interview, she dismissed the argument that cyberbullying is so common that she should overlook it. “I can’t believe how many people are saying to me, ‘Get a life, this is the Internet,’ ” she said. “If that’s the case, how will we ever recognize a real threat?”

Ms. Sierra said she supported the new efforts to improve civility on the Web. The police investigation into her case is pending.

Menacing behavior is certainly not unique to the Internet. But since the Web offers the option of anonymity with no accountability, online conversations are often more prone to decay into ugliness than those in other media.

Nowadays, those conversations often take place on blogs. At last count, there were 70 million of them, with more than 1.4 million entries being added daily, according to Technorati, a blog-indexing company. For the last decade, these Web journals have offered writers a way to amplify their voices and engage with friends and readers.

But the same factors that make those unfiltered conversations so compelling, and impossible to replicate in the offline world, also allow them to spin out of control.

As many female bloggers can attest, women are often targets. Heather Armstrong, a blogger in Salt Lake City who writes publicly about her family (dooce.com), stopped accepting unmoderated comments on her blog two years ago after she found that conversations among visitors consistently devolved into vitriol.

Since last October, she has also had to deal with an anonymous blogger who maintains a separate site that parodies her writing and has included photos of Ms. Armstrong’s daughter, copied from her site.

Ms. Armstrong tries not to give the site public attention, but concedes that, “At first, it was really difficult to deal with.”

Women are not the only targets of nastiness. For the last four years, Richard Silverstein has advocated for Israeli-Palestinian peace on a blog (richardsilverstein.com) that he maintains from Seattle.

People who disagree with his politics frequently leave harassing comments on his site. But the situation reached a new low last month, when an anonymous opponent started a blog in Mr. Silverstein’s name that included photos of Mr. Silverstein in a pornographic context.

“I’ve been assaulted and harassed online for four years,” he said. “Most of it I can take in stride. But you just never get used to that level of hatred.”

One public bid to improve the quality of dialogue on the Web came more than a year ago when Mena Trott, a co-founder of the blogging software company Six Apart, proposed elevating civility on the Internet in a speech she gave at a French blog conference. At the event, organizers had placed a large screen on the stage showing instant electronic responses to the speeches from audience members and those who were listening in online.

As Ms. Trott spoke about improving online conduct, a heckler filled the screen with personal insults. Ms Trott recalled “losing it” during the speech.

Ms. Trott has scaled back her public writing and now writes a blog for a limited audience of friends and family. “You can’t force people to be civil, but you can force yourself into a situation where anonymous trolls are not in your life as much,” she said.

The preliminary recommendations posted by Mr. Wales and Mr. O’Reilly are based in part on a code developed by BlogHer, a network for women designed to give them blogging tools and to guide readers to their pages.

“Any community that does not make it clear what they are doing, why they are doing it, and who is welcome to join the conversation is at risk of finding it difficult to help guide the conversation later,” said Lisa Stone, who created the guidelines and the BlogHer network in 2006 with Elisa Camahort and Jory Des Jardins.

A subtext of both sets of rules is that bloggers are responsible for everything that appears on their own pages, including comments left by visitors. They say that bloggers should also have the right to delete such comments if they find them profane or abusive.

That may sound obvious, but many Internet veterans believe that blogs are part of a larger public sphere, and that deleting a visitor’s comment amounts to an assault on their right to free speech. It is too early to gauge support for the proposal, but some online commentators are resisting.

Robert Scoble, a popular technology blogger who stopped blogging for a week in solidarity with Kathy Sierra after her ordeal became public, says the proposed rules “make me feel uncomfortable.” He adds, “As a writer, it makes me feel like I live in Iran.”

Mr. O’Reilly said the guidelines were not about censorship. “That is one of the mistakes a lot of people make — believing that uncensored speech is the most free, when in fact, managed civil dialogue is actually the freer speech,” he said. “Free speech is enhanced by civility.”

4/10/2007 09:34:00 AM  
Blogger #1 Sniffer said...

Who could disagree with reasonable measures to make blogging more civil?

The problem of course is that there is no problem, rather only the solution itself threatens to become a monster of a problem.

All blogs already have the ability to set their own standards, moderate comments, require users to register, and ban users who don’t follow the rules and delete their comments.

But if they don’t define rules or enforce them, it’s their decision. Many excellent sites do it, and are excellent in large part because they do, we all know this.

But to institute new “guidelines” for everybody with of course the classic tearful appeal to decency and the common good (to “help you"), sounds great at first, but it's a sales job, and once that power is given by all to whoever is asking for it, it is truly is the power of censorship that has been given.

Once in place, little by little it will creep it's ugly head towards you, but it will be too late then.

We’ve all seen examples of something similar with local ISP service agreements being used to delete entire websites because somebody invisible to you interpreted what used to be a good-sounding term nobody could disagree with, like “hateful speech,” of that agreement, in a certain way and claims it was violated (when it’s really only something like “discussed sensitive truth in sensitive areas,)” and there is nobody you can appeal to or anything you can do; while the truly vile stuff prospers under those same people who work for a monopoly.

So thanks but no thanks ericswan.

4/10/2007 12:30:00 PM  
Blogger Mark said...

1.

From the beating the dead horse department:

Sniffer, yet once more, this is not personal (and I don't bait easily, sorry), so back to Jenkins: if Jenkins is unconvincing and misleading in print, does a video of him make him convincing much less wipe away the casuistry of his article?

2.

Speaking of the ability of video to hoax or invent validity (after all some people think Bush is President because he appears as such on TV instead of something to do with votes), here's some extensive videos I just discovered on Google Video I thought I would share the links for.

What Happened on the Moon - 1 of 2
2 hr 12 min
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7251089776146839385

What Happened on the Moon - 2 of 2
1 hr 29 min 45 sec - Oct 30, 2006
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8585273531105072202

"If some of the film was spoiled, it's remotely possible they [NASA] may have shot some scenes in a studio environment to avoid all embarrassment." - David Groves, PhD. This compelling video throws into serious doubt the authenticity of the Apollo missions and features information that challenges the declared abilities of NASA to successfully send a man to the Moon and return him safely to Earth. New evidence clearly suggests that NASA hoaxed pictures allegedly taken on the lunar surface. These findings are supported by analysis and the testimony of experts from various disciplines, including photographer/filmmaker David S. Percy ARPS and physicist David Groves PhD. Hear what NASA has to say in response to these disturbing findings."

If the Nixonites were hoaxing the world over the space program nearly 40 years ago, it's an argument to stock up on Baudrillard.

The 'astronoughts' look terrified, don't they?

Apollo NASA - Astronaut Young Literally Runs Away from Swearing He Walked on the Moon
AFTH, LLC - 3 min - Jul 21, 2006 -
Bart Sibrel of AFTH, LLC [moonmovie.com], documentary film director, speaks with Apollo 10 and 16 astronaut John Young regarding the reel of footage Bart ...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4297696869592793298

Apollo NASA - Cernan swears on the Bible, "I lived on the moon..."
AFTH, LLC - 7 min - Sep 13, 2006 -
Bart Sibrel of AFTH, LLC [moonmovie.com] interviews Eugene Cernan, Apollo 10 and 17 astronaut. Mr. Cernan seems disturbed by the written words of the father of NASA's rocket program - von Braun - who wrote that traveling directly to the moon would be impossible.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7727918931691469328

Apollo NASA - Collins Makes his Mark -- on the Camera Lens
AFTH, LLC - 3 min - Jul 5, 2006 -
In the film "Astronauts Gone Wild", Bart Sibrel asks Michael Collins, crewman of the Apollo 11 mission to swear that he orbited the moon. Order this film ...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7137986168630856754

Apollo NASA - Armstrong Refuses $5,000 Cash
AFTH, LLC - 2 min - Sep 13, 2006 -
... Astronauts Gone Wild' [www.moonmovie.com] documentary filmmaker Bart Sibrel offers Neil Armstrong $5,000 for his favorite charity in exchange for one ...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7617212431732966410

Buzz Aldrin punches Bart Sibrel in the face
mitzp - 20 sec - May 6, 2006 - small
Buzz punches a guy who accuses him of never going to the moon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQKxAqpjroo

Not everyday you see 'famous astronauts' punch reporters in the face, rub their oily noses on the camera lens in frustration, or others, run away like they are terrified or refuse to accept a signed check for $5,000 for their favorite charity because they refuse to swear they walked on the moon.

Six of the seven that Sibrel interviewed refused to swear they walked on the moon.

"St. Beale" discusses the issue where lying video has become the only reality most culture is carried through in the USA:
Network (1976) :: Howard Beale (Mad Prophet of the Airwaves) (2:51)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwNJeEuA4W0


3.

Anyone seen a map of the 30 states where most of the bee dieoff is coming from? Just a few weeks ago ago it was reported as 22 states...

4.

The only thing I want to see removed from the internet is Octopus-like Jimbo Wells.

http://www.wikipedia-watch.org/

http://www.wikitruth.info/

4/11/2007 01:30:00 AM  
Blogger ericswan said...

Mark..not sure where you were going with the link to post-modernism in the midst of your faked moon astronauts but the link was well worth the effort. A couple of points to interject here. Guy Dubord led the post modern revolution somewhere in the midst of Dharmabums and Hippies. They can be found on the internet under the handle "situationists".

Mcluhan and Jean Baudrillard might have been converging in their ideas but we will never be sure about this as Bowker Books bought McLuhan's "Libraries Without Shelves" in 1979 shortly after McLuhan had a stroke which took him out of the book writing business. (his writing partner finished the project) The purchase price of one million dollars was more to silence McLuhan than it was to sell his last book as it has never surfaced publicly.

Jean Baudrillard is new information to me and I'm appreciating where you are going with this link. Into the dust bin of suppression we go. My analogy to his work is the fact that destroying "currency" is illegal. Gifting and Potlatch as a means of public interraction would be the demise of mythical PTB. And the children; What have we done? The Medium is the message and the message is "stranger danger".
Interesting tidbit in the news today. Nowak is being further tarred and feathered as it were. CNN claims they found a disk with pictures of "bondage" in her car. She has been vilified, silenced, sequestered and soon will be disappeared.
Funny thing that. Just when we thought that the world was heading into the "abyss" yet one more big lie and she rotates on her axis for one more day of lies and bigger lies moving truth just outside the asteroid belt. I could go on here but IC would accuse me of being cryptic but the reality is "Dreams are real and life is only sweet".

4/11/2007 05:16:00 AM  
Blogger Mark said...

"...it's an argument to stock up on Baudrillard."

Since it wasn't clear what I meant:

Meaning that the mass manufacture of visual, electronic, simultaneous ahistoric symbols have become the basis for 'reality' for most people. Just as Rome noted the passing years by noting the names of the Consuls of that year, most Americans note the years by when certain TV programs were on.

Baudrillard sort of said (as I think that little article rightly said at least at one point--who knows though whether it still says it with an endlessly updated 'consensus' at Wikipedia), that he takes this to the edge of the cliff in everything he wrote, that it means to him that there is no reality due to the hyperreality. I don't buy that though I do think that his commentary on the world of equally perfect symbolic images taking over for reality--smothering reality--is so visible. Particularly where the "original copy" is entirely unimportant to most people when it should be even more important because of the social effects it can have through the electronic media (i.e., like in the single helicopter shot of WTC2 on 9-11, a single feed that all the networks were utilizing at once, strange that.

One helicopter pilot (with WESCAM digital inline CGI technology capacities on the base of his helicopter) basically programmed hundreds of millions of people with an image that seems to be digitally manipulated from Nico's information (posted above).

What gets quite perverse in my opinion is that it' fascinating that people will get behind thermate more or less--which basically means they have 'accepted' treasonous state terrorism. However, what gets them really terrified it seems is not the thermate evidence: it's approaching that the images themselves were manipulated. "No! Not that! They wouldn't dare! They would plant thermate though they wouldn't dare manipulate the images!" How out of kilter can you get?

Retrospectively now noting this Baudrillard theme, I have mentioned two major "dislike for the original copy" taboos in the thread: the great dislike in any interest in where that "original copy" film of the helicopter came from on 9-11, as well as the great dislike to look more critically at the "original copy" of the NASA films of the moon landing--which among other things show cross shadows on the moon (impossible, given the sun would be the only illumination), backlighting, stage rocks with numbers on them, etc., many more, which are all a dead giveaway for a stage set.

The hostile dislike of really questioning the "original copy" of all those hyperreal mass manufactured images is sort of my twist on Baudrillard. Because they have turned into iconic symbols, no one is allowed to question them as the basis of the social reality, even if they were figments.

Now one person may admit nobly that they were duped--though a planet of billions who have patted themselves on the back for 'heroic accomplishments' that they saw on the TV have a hard time particularly when it would cause them to understand that being visually duped on TV has become their basis of reality for generations. Since 1898 in the USA I would argue, it's been "You provide the images, and I'll provide the war," onward to the present without any change of basic strategy.

The mass acceptance of hyperreality as reality explains things like the hugely hostile comments at that Youtube link where nearly everyone is supportive of Buzz Aldrin punching the investigative reporter in the face who is curious where all those billions of dollars at NASA have fraudulently gone, if they didn't actually go when they said they did.

At that Youtube link, unless you think that hundreds of sockpuppets from the intelligence services are spending their days spinning comments on the thread, people really are collectively opposed to the level of open anger at 'going back' to a previous lovable iconic image just to find it was their childhood duping session. Another thing is most seem to hate having their 'friend the TV' made out as a medium for charismatic liars lauded by dupes like themselves. To use the TV as a medium for image questioning--instead of just image suckling--is something that I think people like McLuhan didn't really surmise.

There's only one comment I saw there implying that someone has actually looked at the evidence of Sibrel before commenting. However in general, it's a gladfest of "nice right hook against conspiracy theorists attempting to challenge our belief in authoritative TV programming."

The only comment I like was "like a liar, Buzz uses his fist when his head has failed him."

The hyperreal symbols and TV images are reality to most. Strange that people will intuitively accept thermate though hate to accept image manipulation, horrors, the sanctum sanctorum itself.

Why? There may be something more physiological about what happens to the brain under TV stimulation, than simply psychological here.

We know that a large portion of people watching TV--not all--go into a suggestive pseudo-hypnotic trance, in theta waves:

Theta rhythms are one of several characteristic electroencephalogram waveforms associated with various sleep and wakefulness states. When seen in this fashion, they are between 4 and 8 Hz, and involve many neurons firing synchronously, probably in the hippocampus and through the cortex. Theta rhythms are normally absent in healthy awake adults but are physiological and natural in awake children under the age of 13 years. Nonetheless, theta activity can be observed in adults during some sleep states, and in states of quiet focus, for example meditation (e.g. Aftanas & Golosheykin, 2005). They can equally be seen in cases of focal or generalized subcortical brain damage and epilepsy. Interestingly, theta waves are also manifested during some short term memory tasks (reviewed in Vertes 2005). Some suggest that they reflect the "on-line" state of the hippocampus; one of readiness to process incoming signals (Buzsaki, 2002). Conversely, theta oscillations have been correlated to various voluntary behaviors (exploration, spatial navigation, etc.) and alert states (piloerection, etc.) in the rat (Vanderwolf, 1969), suggesting that it may reflect the integration of sensory information with motor output (for review, see Bland & Oddie, 2001). Theta rhythms are very strong in rodent hippocampi and entorhinal cortex during learning and memory retrieval, and are believed to be vital to the induction of long-term potentiation, a potential cellular mechanism of learning and memory.

In other words, the TV is being mentally processed like it was reality. The term "TV programming" has many subtle meanings, in other words. So for some to 'unlearn that the reality effect of TV' was a lie may be physiologically difficult instead of simply psychologically difficult.

TV can create "instant consensus", simultaneous thought, everybody with the identical copy of the original, though the original becomes unimportant? However, to claim to be rigorously intuitive, instead of ignoring the manufacture of the original copy as unimportant, the "original copy" should become EVEN MORE IMPORTANT in a Baudrillardian world.

Who made the originals is a paramount question in the moon landing, and in certain 'official news views' of 9-11.

On these occassions, mass TV images of TV programming from a government agency (NASA) became reality for most, just as the corporate news (all from one helicopter shot) made reality for others of the WTC2 hit.

Youtube comments boggle the mind at the hostility against challenging 'sacred images'--even if a strong case can be made that some shots are artificial or staged from the "original copy", tainted from the start.

In closing, another interesting point on "St. Beale": he may have gotten his own version of a "right hook from Buzz Aldrin" after starring in a film challenging network news TV land and challenging films in general as a medium of power falsely given to inverterate liars.

Challenging this belief in TV images as reality didn't get that actor very far: he died soon after making Network. He was scheduled to go on a nationwide promotional tour and "died unexpectedly."

The writer for Network is the one who went on to do Altered States, after which he died immediately thereafter. So: there's a little substitutionary Jeff Wellsian high weirdness to ponder....

Fascism and image control have been going on for generations, from Hitler or FDR (Mr. "Fireside Chat") in the 1930s.

Though I agree to call FDR fascist I think is mislaid, a totalitarian society is perhaps the better model here. (However, you have to take into account that FDR's REAL policies didn't pass: giving private corporate monopolists governmental authority over their own competitors was indeed exactly what the Third Reich did do in the 1930s, right before they 'legally' shut down all small competition this way and led to a complete monopolistic corporate fascism. FDR attempted to do the same thing, and when it was rejected by Congress and even his own party, he attempted to stacked the Supreme Court to get that corporate fascism power across. Though it failed there as well (cite, interesting book: Wall Street and FDR by Antony Sutton). So FDR's version of corporate fascism was 'stillborn' in many ways, only half achieved when all his federal economic policies did pass and were implemented only if they were beneficial to the masses at large, though as for the corporate side of FDR, that was rejected legislatively. Germany didn't even have working legislature at that stage.

After FDR, in the next generation, we can see Reagan being raised as a "Baudrillard product", a mass image popularity, sometimes making half a dozen speeches a day for General Motors and their version of "America". Strangely, no one really knows much about him and his early life. He even he disappeared for several years and no one knows where he went (cite: McGowans book). Then he pops up heavily sponsored into radio and Hollywood, becomes connected with protofascism, the FBI intelligence networks, Mafia in Hollywood (see McGowan's book), and soon thereafter becomes the hood ornament actor as Governor of California, and then President.

And something right out of Hitler: it is known that the same 'crowd cheering section' for Reagan was moved around the country with him in his 1980 campaign. This made it seem to everyone watching on TV that there was ecstatic support for him whereever cameras rolled at each whistle stop, even though the whole thing was a moving fishbowl simulacrum.

Next up in the mass image machine? Clinton or Bush Jr, take your pick.

Then next up? Son of a Nazi S.A., Schwartzenegger, born in Austria. "They" queued him up in the same way from an acting career like Reagan toward the Governorship of California as well, though it seems they have dropped the idea of running him for President because of his open "dictator admiration" statements, even though some Republicans are still vocally supportive of changing the U.S. Constitution merely so that a son of an Austrian Nazi can be (s)elected President.

The 'republic of images' and the power of publishing en masse is probably why all the 'image news magazines' of the USA like Time and Newsweek, were all started by Skull and Bonesmen (like Luce), in the 1930s Great Depression.

The 'republic of images' is as well why Hitler and Goebbels loved the movies, and turned out pabulum "German Hollywood" escapism throughout the 1930s Great Depression. However, what is generally not appreciated is that the Nazis as they were building their armies to march across all of Asia weren't encouraging their populations to watch heavily political films during the Third Reich. In an interesting retrospective of these films that I read a review about, it seems that most were watching soft, docile, kindhearted escapist things--just the kind of things that U.S. Hollywood specializes in, while a half dozen permanent military bases are being constructed in Iraq and over 50% of the U.S. federal budget goes to the military corporations.

Soft mind control mental steering is only possible when information is intentionally limited and when many people fall into accepting that as their basis for information.

Though that box nowadays is wallpapered with Baudrillard's observation on how reality is getting constructed, with the internet serving up more individually tailored information instead of mass image equanimity, a huge crack has opened up against how 'modern states' have dominated and 'coined' their populations with images for 50 years particularly the USA--and given global Hollywood movie and image creation dominance.

Suddenly not everyone is watching the same images all the time or carrying them around with the internet.

As I imagine that the whole bee dieoff won't be "real" to some people until TV talks about it night after night, 9-11 truth won't be real until people are told it's OK to think about it from the TV.

Thus, we have the amazing iconic purpose of WTC7 increasingly: it is a visual icon and symbol of so many different rabbit holes, which is why the huge compendium of 911blogger.com has a special section where you can download and share different WTC7 crafted images for emailing and sharing, though they don't have anything to share on image manipulation.

WTC7, that building that collapsed just like planes hit it on 9-11--though planes didn't hit it--may be more iconic than Nico's triptych of three 'different' ABC, NBC, and CBS helicopter views all coming from the same helicopter with the word "WESCAM" quite visibly seen on it, though in the long run Nico's picture may be more important, if hardly iconic.

It's equally perverse that to deconstruct the visuals in a 'republic of images' about the moon landings and/or 9-11, more visuals and films are made to do so.

Though I much prefer their use of the medium for this purpose than anything else.

I don't think McLuhan got it right by entirely making the 'medium the only message': sometimes the medium and the message can be hijacked and turned on itself. The message carried via the medium can program in the viewer a self-destruct, as Network (the 1976 film) attempted to do. McLuhan didn't live to see all this 'contra-imaging', "No logo", and "subvertizing" movements happening particularly with the internet. Call it a 21st century iconoclasm: literally, the smashing of images and mass thralldom. Can we erect a culture of "original copies" in its place?

4/11/2007 01:56:00 PM  
Blogger Shrubageddon said...

I just don't see the Internet as our salvation....instead, I see it as just another device to contain. It's mind candy....mental chewing gum, if you will. So long as folks are glued to the Internet arguing about the details of 911....action on the streets is precluded....and in this day and age with and endless supply of stimulation and "full" schedules, I'm afraid it is an either/or proposition.

Not to mention how the Internet fragments those looking for true change. So many people with their own blogs....but very little solidarity or agreement...especially on the details and what needs to be accomplished. Just look at the bickering that occurs in this comments section and The Forum....we can't agree on anything...so it seems.

You have to wonder....

....so many agendas.....so little time.

4/11/2007 02:50:00 PM  
Blogger Mark said...

Yes, I should have put something about Shrub's caveat about the Internet above, though I don't think that caveat is the whole story. It's down to more individuals to decide, whether they use the Internet as a form of more seamless mental bubble gum or something else. It is up to them.

That's more than 'we' have had before. The point is that that access has widened somewhat even though such self-learning "freedom" (given the US/UK global NSA electronic network monitoring) means that "freedom" is more monitored than one's 'captive' TV watching.

"The Pentagon also controls the National Security Agency which was authorized by Bush, in violation of the law, to conduct illegal and warrantless wire-tapping of American citizens before 9/11.

About the minute he seized the White House, Bush directed NSA to launch a frenetic illegal domestic spy program, depriving Americans of their Fourth Amendment protection from unjustified government intrusion.31

That was long before he could use the excuse of terrorism.

To his credit, Senator Russ Feingold said he felt shame during the 2006 State of the Union speech when his fellow legislators wildly applauded as Bush defended this illegal surveillance. "Since when do we start to stand up and cheer for breaking the law?" Feingold asked.32

[Though not to his credit, he's gung ho about attacking Iran without Congressional authorization.]

The New York Times reported that after 9/11, NSA went hysterical, sending the names, addresses and emails of thousands Americans to the FBI for investigation.33 In Idaho (and throughout the nation), law abiding Muslims were harassed and questioned incessantly by the FBI. Finally the ACLU held a seminar to teach these people how to defend themselves during endless interrogations.34 The FBI was overwhelmed with NSA demands—yet we now know that the FBI located no terrorist cells inside the U.S.35 and managed mainly to terrify innocent citizens and invade their privacy.36
[Whole article is a 'nice' summary by Amy Worthington, as nice as any summary of open American fascism could be I guess. It's all there.]

In other words, "freedom is dangerous" to the creeping fascism that basically took over the USA in the past 50 years from Paperclip onward. They currently dislike the way the public mind, once entirely 'coined' by them in uniform simultaneous images in the past fifty years, is suddenly not accepting it as the unquestionably legitimate legal tender of the realm anymore.

And you have to remember that massive electronic voter fraud only was introduced in the past five years, because the two party system was seriously breaking down. Third Parties were pulling 10-15% of some states. Choices were appearing. Democrats and Republicans don't like competitive parties, or competitive material choices either. And on that note...

And why I logged back in in the first place:

From the tech front, since green plants are the ultimate solar panels, someone got the bright idea to make synthetic chlorophyll as a more ideal decentralized solar collector. Brilliant. I'm sure Da Vinci would be proud. If the CIGS development was 1/5 the cost of silicon panels, this synthetic chlorophyll is 1/10 the cost of silicon panels:

Solar Panels from Chlorophyll ONE TENTH Cost of Silicone

"Researchers at a New Zealand University have found a way to make solar panels from synthetic chlorophyll which is one tenth the cost of silicone photo voltaic panels. It is in it's early stages of development and not on the market, but it is a huge discovery that is just what is needed to help reduce the world's pollution.

Last year a South African University discovered a way to make solar panels from a substance called CIGS which is one fifth the cost of the older silicone panels, and a German company is going to put these panels on the market this summer. The CIGS panel brings the cost of solar down to the equivalent of coal generating plants. But the synthetic chlorophyll is a huge step towards getting energy from the sun....


http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/04/070405171830.htm

As I suggest (in my book and elsewhere), now there's only the politics of certain raw material regimes of "old choices" holding everything back.

They maintain their power through consumptive clientelism and lack of other choices--whether this be political parties or materials.

However, as for materials, they are unable to blame 'economics' anymore. It's cheaper to go solar than have coal plants for most electricity.

Though as Edwin Black notes for oil (and as [1] John Taylor Gatto notes for coal wealth warping educational pedagogy into a [2] Coal Fired Dreamworld of elites), it was never an economic decision anyway: it was a political coup to generate a captive market, and from a captive market, or even a captive school system, to maintain a caste structure of political power. And from political power, a captive market. etc.

That's why I suggest (mostly here in my tete-a-tete with IC) that instead of simply considering a material overhaul as going to be successful, sustainability means a whole different level of checks and balances in the formal state (and institutions of education among other frameworks), otherwise ongoing political corruption will just kill of material change.

(My previous example was that strange though expected reach from oily Alaska by that oil regime sponsored Representative to kill off more local prioritized energy choices in Massachusetts's wind power project.)

My review gets into that interaction between political corruption and unsustainability, and visa versa more democracy is more sustainability.

"Thus, the bioregional state continued an interest in facilitating competitive party democracy as much as human health, ecological, and economic security. Soon, I found that 'theoretically' the main thread through all the additional checks and balances were coaleasing around was the demotion of the 'gatekeeping issue,' i.e., the demotion of the informal clientelism issue of power that destroys both competitive democracy as well destroys citizenship developmental feedback toward ecological security. That same issue of gatekeeping and clientelism in democracy takes the blame for supporting and expanding ecological and human health damage as well. Thus, the issues of democratic facilitation and ecological security circled back on each other and were shown to be one in the same."

4/11/2007 04:38:00 PM  
Blogger #1 Sniffer said...

Mark said: “Sniffer, yet once more, this is not personal (and I don't bait easily, sorry), so back to Jenkins: if Jenkins is unconvincing and misleading in print, does a video of him make him convincing much less wipe away the casuistry of his article?”

Your “I don't bait easily, sorry” sounds like a somewhat personal mischaracterization of what I was doing, whether you disclaim it or not.

I argued factually NOT THAT BEAM WEAPONS DON’T EXIST, but that the source and data of your pet theory that beam weapons collapsed the WTC wasn’t credible.

While beam weapons may have “dustified” (vaporized) and collapsed the WTC, your Dr. Wood, didn’t/hasn’t proven it.

I was only addressing the issue you raised and showed an open-mind to your facts as I initially admitted I was being persuaded.

However, after some research I discovered Dr. Wood’s work was fundamentally flawed and I (naively in retrospect) assumed a similar openness of mind from you and was explaining why.

But you brushed aside and mischaracterized my data and what I was doing (as “baiting”), Jenkins in general, and persisting in pushing a red-herring (the “trashing”) of Wood by Jenkins (untrue) to defend her (since facts were apparently lacking, i.e., she on being soundly exposed by a formal scientific paper just buried her head in the sand).

Since you also raised the “trashing” of Dr. Wood I thought it interesting that she’s the real trasher.

I quoted from her actual “trashing” of Dr. Steven Jones during all of 2006 that eventually drove him from the Scholars For 911 he co-founded (seems clear now she had an agenda [failed], to bring down one of the stars of the 911 truth movement).

She also resolutely argues that NO planes hit the WTC! (and launches personal attacks on him for disagreeing).

Her discredited theories clearly point in one direction, intermingle them with the credible ones to bring all down together.

But you predictably remained unimpressed with her documented “trashings” of Dr. Jones because this time it was the source of your pet theory doing the trashing?

Other flawed evidence you jumped to embrace (I did too for a while) was that amazing but deceptive “Totovader” 5 min video on “dustification” you linked to.

Dr. Jones’ new site deals with the key clip. It’s an optical illusion, the mechanics are explained. Sorry, no “dustification.”

Briefly, the beams while coated in dense and dark, but explainable, dust, during the WTC collapse, and these beams covered by it, collapsed quickly and invisibly underneath the dust, then the dust fell away making it appear as if the beams “dustified.”

But you helped clarify many things.

4/11/2007 08:20:00 PM  
Blogger ericswan said...

test

4/12/2007 05:51:00 AM  
Blogger Shrubageddon said...

homogenize

4/12/2007 09:05:00 AM  
Blogger ericswan said...

I wonder if the new world order wouldn't be better if that includes a world government that includes all the little enclaves like the Cayman Islands or the Vatican or United Arab Emirates? Seems to me the Halliburtons of the world can simply pick up their billions and move to these havens and escape all the consequences of their actions like S and L or BCCI or Iraqgate by moving to countries (if you can call them that) with no diplomatic relations. Where is Mark Rich? Where is Idi Amin? Where is Saddam?
Where is Donald Rumsfeld?

4/12/2007 09:05:00 AM  
Blogger ericswan said...

My post above concerning Milwaukee's outbreak and the original cause of it and it's subsequent coverup ties in with this piece at Cloak and Dagger. Interesting bit of around the clock 12 o'clock rock.

APRIL 6, 2007

Pet Food Poisoning now tied directly to the
Chinese FDA Box Sara Lee Company Chicago Ill.


Of course, the CEO for Sara Lee Co. is LOUIS B. SUSMAN, the bagman for UNELECTABLE BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA and FRED Typeworks Thompson, former Republican Senator Tennessee.

Note: Who holds huge amount of Stock in the Sara Lee Corp.? None other than Bush-Clinton Crime Cartel Fund Raiser Israeli Tax Cheat HAIM SABAN.

Reference: Upon close examination don't be fooled, most of the money for both UNELECTABLE HILLARY (gay-in-the-closet) RODENHURST-CLINTON and BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA come from Republican Radical Zionist interests. Once again folks, these are the FOX NEWS PAID TO LOSE DEMOCRATS.

Message to TIM RUSSERT: We understand you are paid to lie and manipulate this HILLARY OBAMA NEWSWEEK KABUKI DANCE.

P.S. - Warning. The NWO GANG may be using Pet Food Poisoning as a test which may soon include an attempt to poison the American People. Remember folks, these people are Evil Satanist Tribalist Filth.

P.P.S. - Lafayette remains at Brandywine and Overlord at Yorktown remains relentless and victorious.

4/12/2007 10:28:00 AM  
Blogger Shrubageddon said...

The acquisition of Gerber is the perfect complementary fit," said Nestle Chairman and CEO Peter Brabeck-Letmathe. "It not only gives Nestle the leadership position in baby food, but it also constitutes a decisive step to establish Nestle Nutrition as the undisputed global leader in the nutrition field.

4/12/2007 11:16:00 AM  
Blogger just_another_dick said...

The Bottle Baby Scandal in the Third World
SYNOPSIS: With the birthrate in the United States declining, infant formula manufacturers (Nestle and Bristol-Myers in the forefront along with Abbott and American Home Products) began pushing their products on the Third World to ensure their continued profits.
They rely on exploitative and deceptive tactics to sell their products including:
1) giving free samples to mothers so their own milk will dry up, leaving them dependent on expensive formulas;
2) promises of "modernization and heightened status" through use of the formulas, as encouraged by well-financed media campaigns (which include radio and television spots, calendars, billboards, and baby contests),
3) telling new mothers that their own milk is "inappropriate" or may be "unsuccessfully" given to their baby, etc.
The majority of Third World mothers wind up watering down the formulas, using contaminated water, and otherwise malnourishing and infecting their children because they cannot afford to administer formulas in the prescribed way. Parents would have to spend 30-40 percent of their aver age daily wage to feed their babies on this mother's milk substitute. Malnutrition and denial of natural immunities (which would have been provided had the mother breast-fed) caused by infant formula feeding account for 35,000 deaths and untold brain damage in babies of predominantly Third World countries.
Meanwhile, the profit margins on infant formulas have been documented at up to 72 percent; a billion dollars a year are taken from the Third World countries from the import of these formulas.

UPDATE: As a result of public outrage in the late seventies and through a series of events involving the courts, the U.S. Senate, a group of Catholic nuns, the Securities and Exchange Commission, and concerned citizens, the WHO/UNICEF Code for Marketing Breastmilk Substitutes was drafted, redrafted, and finally adopted by the World Health Assembly in 1981. The - final vote was 118 to 1. The United States cast the sole negative vote.
Despite the U.N. Code, a comprehensive expose published by Mothering (12/22/95) revealed that even today, "Billboards and radio jingles encourage women to use formula in order to raise the healthiest baby. Hospital maternity units in developing nations are sometimes sponsored by formula companies...In addition, babies are routinely fed formula and glucose water, and mothers are sent home with unstimulated breasts and free samples of whatever formula paid for the maternity unit."
It is now estimated that "one million infant deaths per year can be prevented by using the world's most economical and effective health protection: breast milk." But Third World mothers are still not being told this and continue to be bombarded with promotions for formula. Anyone interested in this issue would be well advised to look up the original Mothering article. It is an exceptionally well-researched history of the problem dating back to 1939 when Nestle was selling sweetened condensed milk as infant food despite research showing it was unsafe for infants. It also contains dozens of names and addresses of organizations and individuals who can be contacted for further information.
Unfortunately, the health issue became increasingly complicated in 1997 as increasing numbers of Third World women, infected with the AIDS virus, were transmitting it to their infants through breast milk. Some observers feel that infant formula may be a powerful weapon to reduce childhood deaths from AIDS. Infant formula critics acknowledge that the data are incomplete but say that the vast majority of Third World infants will be imperiled by renewed promotion of bottle-feeding. Still others say it is imperative to find alternatives to breast-feeding including making safe, affordable formula widely available. (New York Times 6/8/97)

What is funnier than a dead baby?
A dead baby in a clown costume.

What is the difference between a baby and a onion?
No one cries when you chop up the baby.

What is the difference between a dead baby and a water melon?
One's fun to hit with a sledge hammer, the other one's a water melon.

What is the difference between a baby and a dart-board?
Dart-boards don't bleed.

What is the difference between a baby and a mars bar?
About 500 calories.

Why do you put babies into blenders feet first?
So you can see the expression on their faces.

Why do they boil water when a baby is being born?
So that if its born dead they can make soup.

Why did the baby cross the road?
It was stapled to the chicken.

How many babies does it take to make a bottle of baby oil?
It depends on how hard you squeeze them.

How many babies fit in a blender?
Depends on how powerful the blender is.

How do you know when a baby is dead?
It doesn't cry if you nail its feet to the ceiling.

How do you unload a truck full of dead babies?
With a pitchfork.

How do you get 100 babies into a bucket?
With a blender.

How do you get them out again?
With Doritos.

How do you make a dead baby float?
Take your foot off its head.
or:
A glass of soda water and 2 scoops of baby.

What do you call two abortions in a bucket?
Blood brothers.

What is red and is creeping up your leg?
An abortion with homesickness.

What is a foot long and can make a woman scream?
Stillbirth.

What is a foot long, blue, and makes women scream in the morning?
Crib death.

What do you call a dead baby pinned to your wall?
Art.

What is red, bubbly, and scratches at the window before exploding?
A baby in a microwave.

4/12/2007 12:07:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

Or maybe she was just a woman scientist having a bad day

Ah, the weaker sex…too caught up with her hair & nails to competently debate the great men of science, or?


And Dr. Jones knows about all the technology sequestered by the black ops directed scientific orthodoxy, does he? They just gave him the index and said, “Here you go mate, this is what we have, this is what’s possible”?

Just a suggestion here, mind you, but perhaps it might be useful to consider how the business of suppression operates, since it is here that we find the scant available clues that feed our wild guesses. Some interesting resources for that pursuit are:

*Wade Frazier's Science and the "Real World" (part of his awesome Energy Racket)

*Suppression, Censorship and Dogmatism in Science,

and

*Bibhas De's expansive THE-FOUNDATION-IS-THE-FRONTIER SERIES, (and, somewhat more technical in nature, his latest effort, THE GENESIS COVENANT )


Lots of stuff has been hidden. The esteemed Dr. Jones (who, by the way, was no Eugene Mallove on cold fusion, let alone his Mormon archeology, Jesus-visited-North America spiel) is in no better position to speculate on what’s possible and what’s not than anyone with access to a computer, all his weighty credentials notwithstanding.

Another fact is Dr. Wood advanced a big theory, failed to competently support it in an interview, then saw a formal peer-reviewed 30-page physics paper published questioning the basis of everything she said.

Yes, the peer-reviewed paper syndrome. And if a person’s ideation runs contrary to the Orthodoxy, who will “peer review” his paper? This is how the game/racket/whatever euphemism for squealching dissent is played. Weren’t those 9/11 conspiracy rebuttals we saw in Popular Mechanics “peer reviewed”?

Funny thing that. Just when we thought that the world was heading into the "abyss" yet one more big lie and she rotates on her axis for one more day of lies and bigger lies moving truth just outside the asteroid belt. I could go on here but IC would accuse me of being cryptic but the reality is "Dreams are real and life is only sweet".

No, this time you’re laying it out pretty clearly, ericswan. Good job, even. (I guess I'm only annoyed by your cryptic-hood when I'm trying to figure out what I'm supposed to do with something you send me--speaking of which, what's up with that Müller/Nazi pdf?) This discussion reminds me, in a roundabout way, of something I wrote a while back in response to Jeff’s ruminations on the supposed "magickal power" obtained by the evil ones through child sacrifice and other such abominations. (It might not seem relevant to this discussion at first glance, but there are echoes & connections just waiting for the right synapses to let their guard down):

Take what Jeff says about the traffikers in occult evil: It seems to be inchoate knowlege among those who seek power in dark places that the defilement of the innocent, particularly children, makes for strong magick. Just as disbelief seems the natural defense posture of those who are preyed-upon. First off, who the fuck said that doing horrible things to kids "makes for strong magick"? Has some insider sufficiently explained the "physics" of how this shit works, or are we relying on Crowley's diaries or something? That it "seems to be inchoate knowlege" suggests at least the possibility that it's the appearance that counts for those trying to scare us, not the reality. I'm not saying this is the case, but it's very difficult to separate the fear from the fact on this point.

The other thing that bothers me is the apparent lack of defense against the dark arts. Again, from Jeff: "Just as disbelief seems the natural defense posture of those who are preyed-upon"--is that an effective defense, or the one that gets them killed? As I was wrestling with these ideas, something from Terry Pratchett kept nudging my subconscious, trying to get my attention, and now I've remembered it. Pratchett is a very funny man, one of the rare talents that can make your eyes water from laughing at the printed word, but he is also deadly serious at times. Before you wonder why I refer to humourous fiction in reference to this very real and serious problem, please let me share something that an academic, Christopher Bryant, who takes Pratchett very seriously, wrote about Pratchett's universe over at L-Space:

The condition of hyperreality, as posited by Jean Baudrillard in The Order Of Simulacra, leads to a world in which there are no distinctions between the simulacra and that which they simulate:

"The new postmodern universe tends to make everything a simulacrum. By this Baudrillard means a world in which all we have are simulations, there being no 'real' external to them, no 'original' that is being copied. There is no longer a realm of the 'real' versus that of 'imitation' or 'mimicry' but rather a level in which there are only simulations."

Baudrillard's example to illustrate this principle involves "a map so detailed that it ends up exactly covering the territory" - a 1:1 scale simulation which effectively replaces the original. It is this effect which Baudrillard suggests has already taken place.

The idea of simulations superseding that which is simulated is a common theme in the Discworld novels. One book which employs the concept is Moving Pictures, which culminates in the characters from a popular film bursting through the screen at the premiere and into reality. The star of the film, Victor, is present at the premiere, and the crowd expectantly wait for him to save the day, ignoring his protests that it was all acting. The solution, in fact, turns out to be quite simple, in a Discworld sort of way - Victor yells "Lights! Picture box! Action!", the cameras start rolling, and he is able to become the hero of the film once again. So-called "movie rules" are made to work in the "real" world: "we live in a world of simulacra where the image or signifier of an event has replaced direct experience and knowledge of its referent or signified."

Ankh-Morpork, the principal location in which the novels take place, is a city obsessed with simulations. A recurring phrase through the books serves as a subtle indicator: "Technically, Ankh-Morpork is built on loam, but what it is mainly built on is Ankh-Morpork". The original city has burnt down, been flooded, been invaded, been attacked by dragons or had parts of it blown up or accidentally turned into jam by the wizards from Unseen University so many times that the city which now calls itself Ankh-Morpork is nothing more than a simulation of the original city, yet is equal and in many ways greater than its model. Its inhabitants are also entirely willing to accept new versions of reality as absolute, whether they come from the Odium picture house, the Dysk theatre, the opera house or simply from a good liar.


In Lords and Ladies, the elves are coming back to the Discworld, and they're not at all what they were for Tolkien. They represent glamour and illusion covering abduction, murder and worse. And Pratchett's "defense" against the real power of/behind the illusion? Remembering what's what by disbelieving the evidence of your senses, especially when it's a story being "told" at a distance. The metaphor he uses is iron as a talisman; because it's so real, the elves can't abide its touch and it keeps you grounded. Is it just possible that we're losing our connection to the earth and the secret to standing up to the illusionists because we give them too much of our belief? It's complicated and paradoxical, I know, since these things really are real, apparently, but it's our knowing that they're real which gives them their reality, apparently. Just a thought...as rigorous as our intuition might strive to be, truth is wily enough to be counter-intuitive as often as not.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So, between what’s hidden and what’s presented/pretended/projected, what empirical yardstick do we use when “peer-reviewed papers” might as well be toilet paper?


Mark,

Very nice with the raw materials regime stuff. Funny how energy & water self-sufficient houses (& architecture in general) which cost pennies to the dollar and are eco-friendly and which are the single most effective response to global warming, environmental degradation, and income & civil rights disparity don't seem to be "newsworthy," eh?

4/12/2007 01:44:00 PM  
Blogger Shrubageddon said...

Hey Richard,

Did Barb breast feed?

My wife breast fed both of our children.....but I was not breast fed....which could explain why I love to suck women's breasts.

Anyhow....the march to oblivion continues unabated...despite the forlorn and best intentions posited here.

4/12/2007 02:20:00 PM  
Blogger just_another_dick said...

The "elites" run everything you say?

The "PTB" are evil fucks you say?

The "blue-bloods" keep all the goodies for themselves you say?

Are they just genetically pre-disposed to be great big meanies?

Apparently they are, but, coincidentally, so are the rest of us.

" Let’s begin with what I call the “Cookie Monster Experiment,” devised to test the hypothesis that power makes people stupid and insensitive — or, as the scientists at the University of California at Berkeley put it, “disinhibited.”

Researchers led by the psychologist Dacher Keltner took groups of three ordinary volunteers and randomly put one of them in charge. Each trio had a half-hour to work through a boring social survey. Then a researcher came in and left a plateful of precisely five cookies. Care to guess which volunteer typically grabbed an extra cookie? The volunteer who had randomly been assigned the power role was also more likely to eat it with his mouth open, spew crumbs on partners and get cookie detritus on his face and on the table.

It reminded the researchers of powerful people they had known in real life. One of them, for instance, had attended meetings with a magazine mogul who ate raw onions and slugged vodka from the bottle, but failed to share these amuse-bouches with his guests. Another had been through an oral exam for his doctorate at which one faculty member not only picked his ear wax, but held it up to dandle lovingly in the light.

As stupid behaviors go, none of this is in a class with slamming somebody else’s Ferrari into a concrete wall. But science advances by tiny steps.

The researchers went on to theorize that getting power causes people to focus so keenly on the potential rewards, like money, sex, public acclaim or an extra chocolate-chip cookie — not necessarily in that order, or frankly, any order at all, but preferably all at once — that they become oblivious to the people around them. "




R.I.P. K.V.

"Now imagine this: A man creates a hydrogen bomb for a paranoid Soviet Union, makes sure it works, and then wins the Nobel Peace Prize! This real-life character, worthy of a story by Kilgore Trout, was the late physicist Andrei Sakharov.
He won his Nobel in 1975 for demanding a halt to the testing of nuclear weapons. He, of course, had already tested his. His wife was a pediatrician! What sort of person could perfect a hydrogen bomb while married to a child-care specialist? What sort of physician would stay with a mate that cracked?
"Anything interesting happen at work today, Honeybunch?"
"Yes. My bomb is going to work just great. And how are you doing with that kid with chicken pox?""

"Jesus said how awful life was, in the Sermon on the Mount: Blessed are they that mourn," and "Blessed are the meek," and "Blessed are they which do hunger after righteousness."

Henry David Thoreau said most famously,"The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation."

So it is not one whit mysterious that we poison the water and air and topsoil, and construct ever more cunning doomsday devices, both industrial and military. Let us be perfectly frank for a change. For practically everybody, the end of the world can't come soon enough."

Kurt Vonnegut


Shrub, in answer to your query, I haven't the foggiest idea. Sorry.

4/12/2007 07:38:00 PM  
Blogger ericswan said...

Shrub you're missing one of those valuable insights which I will make as plain as tapioca for your benefit. Two thousand years is not a long time. We haven't evolved or changed in any way since Christ was nailed to a cross. We're the same. The institutions haven't changed. Moneychangers are still in the house. Your role here in this time/space is to recognize the status quo for what it is. It's not marching anywhere. It's not unfolding anything new. In effect, the game is the same, it's just a question of how good are the players with the pieces they inherited from their forefathers. Live each moment as if it's your last or you're only as good as the last time you went to to the plate. Heroes don't own the ball team.

IC.. Muller is the father of PANOPTICON.

Mark.. there is a little more to it than "blogger is down".

We keep looking up for the enemy but the enemy is "quantum". Wasting the opponent my nanoseconds and single cells. Eventually, the flouride gets one or the carbon monoxide or chlorine gets a few and maybe stressful living. Mercury fillings, GMO's, tobacco or alcohol. Put all of the outlets for toxins on a city map. Wow. No place to hide.

4/12/2007 08:25:00 PM  

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