Saturday, October 07, 2006

Mending



Wish I wasn't, but I've been sick, and I need to rest a little more. But don't let that stop you; please use this as an open thread, and I'll see you in a few days.

151 Comments:

Anonymous Guy Next Door said...

i hope you recover soon jeff. :)
i have been wanting to post something since our "born in time" post. but there just was no good place, i was actually going to ask jeff to start a new post (if he liked the idea). but i guess i had a strong desire, so here's the open thread and i am poster no.1.
anyways, i don't know how most of you will take this but i had an idea to test the theory about collective consciousness. and was wondering if (atleast) some of us could come up an event that we dearly want to happen (in terms of PTB) and focus on that one thing, visualize that event and see what happens. we'll test the theory and at the same time, something good will come out of it. what say.
pls get some ideas bouncing.
tc

10/07/2006 03:16:00 AM  
Anonymous A good Doo Bee from Romper Room said...

Not that kind of doobie.

Dear Mr. Door:

That's not collective consciousness. It's merely lame-ass wishful thinking cum "magickkk" cum new age bullshit.

Sorry to be a downer, Guy, or tc, or whatever your name is, but why don't you just try to channel Ramtha? Or take a trip on an astral plane with Lobsang Rampa? Or maybe you could play ersatz shaman with Lynn Jaguar Woman Andrews.

C'mon. Get real.

10/07/2006 03:29:00 AM  
Anonymous Frank Lee Sy Kotich said...

Hey guy, I got one for you:

If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.

Get off your buttcheeks and DO something constructive.

Your idea is one quarter step this side of frank psychosis.

If I didn't know better, I'd think you were Sounder.

10/07/2006 03:36:00 AM  
Anonymous Guy Next Door said...

hey doobie,
i know there are going to be posters like you, and i don't feel bad. but i am believer, and i have been since i was maybe in college.
frankly, i think even believers may not like this idea. and that's what it is. just an idea. you have a better one, be my guest. its not MY thread afterall.
tc (tc=take care)

@franklee: i am not wishing for it to happen, i am trying to visualise it. i am sure that's what they DO.

10/07/2006 03:42:00 AM  
Anonymous judasdisney@yahoo.com said...

What if:

The U.S. drafted the Amish for a 3rd Party alternative to Rethuglicans & Doormatocrats?

Draft the Amish. Vote Amish. Imagine the integrity and heroism. Imagine what the U.S. could look like.

Write-in candidate for November 7, 2006: either parent of Marian Fisher, the 13-year-old girl who asked to be shot first.

I'm willing to build barns, return to horse & carriage, and begin receiving RigInt via Snail Mail.

If it's not love, then it's the Bomb that will bring us together.

10/07/2006 04:56:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"That's not collective consciousness. It's merely lame-ass wishful thinking"

Telekenesis works.

Princeton, a really high wierdness elite university, has a program for testing psychic phenomena. The kind of magic wishful thinking like telekenesis may work for real, though the effects at least with only one or two people, are very slight. Who knows what a larger effect would be.

I am unsure if they have tested the wishful thinking of a whole whole stadium of people to influence the ball drop below, though they should...


One thing they have done, among others:

"A cascade of polystyrene balls are released at the top of this device and fall through a series of pegs. By chance, balls should bounce left as often as it does right and form a bell-shaped distribution at the bottom."

They set up a huge two sided plastic panel across one wall, with space between the plastic. In that space, it is loaded with lots of black balls braced into the top. These balls are held there, until they are randomly released at once, and have to bounce and kick against lots of plastic spacers on their way down. At the bottom, dividing the sides of the experiment, are dividing spacers to measure the effects away from bell curve randomness.

Then when they all fall down randomly, they are counted on either side to see how many are there. It should over thousands of trials come out completely even regardless of what people wish for it to do.

However, the "treatment" thrown in is a psychic test.

They found that visualization by people to "force" the random falling balls toward one side or the other in aggregate, has statistically significant effects away from randomness.

They additionally found that a couple in love forcing telekinetically for the balls to go to one side or the other has the most effect of all when a team is used.

The effects are slight, measured ingeniously from a drift from randomness of the bell curve.

Though the telekinetic effects are there.


quote:

Random Event Generators Predict the Future
Posted by Daniel Lew on September 11th, 2006 at 12:30 am

This is a classic Damn Interesting article which originally appeared on 10 December 2005.

For the past seven years, random number generators have been running all over the world, electronically flipping 200 coins each second, with the intention of measuring a global consciousness. The Global Consciousness Project (GCP), originating from Princeton, have named these random event generators Electrogaiagrams (EGGs) and are using them to test whether a human consciousness extends a field around the earth which can change the results of random events. They claim that when an important event occurs, such as the 9/11 terrorist attack or the Indian Ocean tsunami, the random event generators start to display patterns that should not exist in truly random sequences.

...

http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=252

Another: how (non)cute. It's called the "CFR." Another little in joke for the global elite?

Rob Seward: The CONSCIOUSNESS FIELD RESONATOR
The CFR is a device based on ESP research performed at Princeton University. It is designed so the owner can have a personal experience of the psychic forces that Princeton claims to exist. The CFR responds changes in "consciousness fields." Disturbances in these fields are detectable when many people have their mind on the same subject. Events such as Princess Diana's Funeral and 9/11 have created measurable effects in Princeton's equipment - similar events should produce a dramatic response in the CFR. This project is my attempt to create an object that engenders a highly emotional relationship with its owner - Link.
http://www.robseward.com/cfr

The Jeff Wellsian point is, regardless of it working, a hell of a lot of money is going to it at one of the U.S.'s most prestigeous universities to test psychic phenomena.

Here it is. Kewl! And here's a picture of the "psychic ball drop" at Princeton Engineering Department, about halfway down.
http://www.exn.ca/starwars/parapsychology.cfm

"In another lab, in the basement of the engineering building at Princeton University, scientists are finding even stranger results. After 20 years of controlled experiments in what they call 'human/machine anomalies,' they're finding that people can influence random events with the power of thought.

"Somehow, in these experiments, the results of these interactions - whatever is going on - are having a very slight but definite impact on the way the physical world is working," Brenda Dunne, laboratory manager of the Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research (PEAR) laboratory told @discovery.ca. "At least in the way a random process in the physical world is working."

The researchers used a variety of devices programmed to perform randomly, and then tested to see if thinking it would make them behave not-so-randomly. Over several million trials, the researchers found that the machines produced slightly less-random results when study participants willed them to.

The effect is very small - of the order of a few parts in 10,000 on average. But, they are statistically significant and repeatable.

"[In] my global opinion, humans don't just stop at their skin," says Roger Nelson, Operations Coordinator. "Consciousness is bigger than the physical body and I believe there is evidence, we have good evidence, that there's an interaction of consciousness with physical systems."

The group's research shows an even more puzzling result. A participant can influence a random event even if he or she is thousands of kilometres away from the device. Even more provocative, the effects seemed to transcend time itself. Mental willing produced positive results even when the experiments were performed 73 hours before to 336 hours after the machine operation. [i.e., by not looking at the results quite yet until the 336 hour later "treatment" of the previous results, which indicates that on some level, when it happened it was already being influenced by the 'future'.]

So are there any theories to explain such phenomena?

"Not at this stage," says Morris. "It looks to us as though it would be some additional, natural means of communication. We don't regard ourselves as being involved in the so-called supernatural."

As for the Princeton group?

It suggests that these consciousness-related physical phenomena might be explained using an expanded model of a theory in quantum mechanics, a theory that describes the behaviour of subatomic particles.

However, both the model and the findings are not exactly welcomed by all scientists. "We have a few colleagues who are vigorously hostile to what we're trying to do," says Robert Jahn, program director, "but by far, the greatest proportion of them ignore us and go on doing their own thing...Ultimately, the proof has to be in the pudding. It has to be in the application. If indeed, we can come to understand these things well enough that pragmatic utilization of them becomes possible, then science will have to pay attention."

So: as they say, "be careful what you wish for."

That PEAR group sounds like the DNA as a quantum mechanics receiver discussion here...

10/07/2006 06:45:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rainbow Family Peaceably Schools Police, Dissolves Roadblock:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hAx5G0I9mU&eurl=

HAHAHA!!!!

Brown_Zero

10/07/2006 06:48:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

CONSCIOUSNESS FIELD RESONATOR Presentation

38 views »
2 yesterday «
rob seward
21 min 58 sec - Aug 1, 2006
robseward.com

This project is based on Princeton University's "consciousness field" research. If the psychic forces purported by Princeton exist, the device presented here will react to them. This was Rob Seward's final presentation for his master's at ITP.

10/07/2006 07:00:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Get well soon Jeff.

10/07/2006 07:28:00 AM  
Blogger Christopher said...

I think the the guy next door's idea is a good one for two reasons:

1) doing something collaboratively is often a "good" in and of itself, i.e., it puts our consciousness in a broader frame of reference--like praying for someone to get well which benefits both the one who prays and the one who is prayed for; and

2) it could work.

The problem is that this issue strikes at the heart of the cultural mythology (the matrix) we live in. To even embark on a personal journey is hard enough but to do it with others is even more difficult since we like to live in our own unique theoretical constructs--particularly those who tend to look at or write in forums such as this one. To actually confront in a real way what is talked about in theory has, in my experience, often caused a dramatic change of subject from everyone wanting to preserve their own little narrative.

10/07/2006 09:40:00 AM  
Blogger Tsoldrin said...

ZOMG is this something to do with that bullcrap "the secret" ? ffs, thinking positive thoughts certainly makes you happier, but to believe it actually does something worldly tangible is foolish. Think of it from an evolutionary standpoint.

10/07/2006 10:28:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jeff writes:

"Wish I wasn't, but I've been sick, and I need to rest a little more. But don't let that stop you; please use this as an open thread, and I'll see you in a few days."

We could all probabaly agree to visualize a well Jeff--whatever he looks like and wherever he is. :-)

"but to believe it actually does something worldly tangible is foolish. Think of it from an evolutionary standpoint."

Is that statement of disbelief just as much a visualization based belief?

"Think of it from an evolutionary standpoint."

Wow! Am I really talking to the Divine Presence? How do you know what the "evolutionary standpoint" is? Why do you assume that the material world is predominant over thought and waveforms, instead of interactive (on that note--nice link on cymatic frequencies for you to watch and ponder for about 28 minutes. It might change your mechanistic/physical only world.)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7253148167375317006

10/07/2006 10:42:00 AM  
Anonymous Joni Mitchell said...

Smug in your jaded expertise,
You scathe the wonder world,
And you praise barbarity

10/07/2006 11:25:00 AM  
Anonymous Oarwell said...

You want answers?

'From Freedom to Fascism,' Aaron Russo's documentary about the takeover of our nation's money system by central bankers, is available on Gargle video:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2608376387938594773&sourceid=zeitgeist

It's No. 2 in their "Movers & Shakers" column, despite only (ha ha) 348 views. A little counter re-setting, hmm?

10/07/2006 11:26:00 AM  
Anonymous Dr. Bombay said...

Aaron Russo's video is a MUST SEE!!
Check it out before they "Pull It".

10/07/2006 11:32:00 AM  
Blogger lemme howdt said...

GND -
when you ask us to visualize, should we include audio and create a startrek holodeck image of an event? Would just suggesting an event make the odds of such an event happening more likely via the power of suggestion - placing the thought howdt there into the fabric of thoughts ? Isn't visualizing what you desire part of the life of making ones dreams come true, called wishing ?

people are constantly projecting the desired outcome on the situation and seeing only the picture that supports our conclusion, while others watching the same event from different perspective also see things in the event to reenforce their preconceived vision of what is supposed to happen. The two do not have to be conincidental to both be truthful accounts, from each observers perspective.

net - as ghandi said - be the change you wish to see. groupthink is groupthink - each of us has to live in the consistency of the world we envision - the simulcrafting is based on individual action or inaction. as everything gravitates toward the mean, all things unique take shape from energy put into doing something different. they last temporarily through sustained effort, but diminish over time - pyramids come to mind.

10/07/2006 11:52:00 AM  
Anonymous Billy Shears said...

Anon 6:45am said:

"Princeton, a really high wierdness elite university, has a program for testing psychic phenomena."

Yeah, isn't that where Dr. Venkman and Dr. Stantz worked before giving in to their entrepreneurial proclivities and starting the wildly successful Ghostbusters, which as we all remember saved the world from the destructive nature of giant marshmallows? Oh no, they were at Columbia University. Isn't Columbia Univeristy a temple of high weirdness, too? If not, maybe it should be...

10/07/2006 12:03:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Besides this PEAR thing, Princeton has the Institute for Advanced Studies, Billy Shears. Keep it up. You don't know anything. You might learn something.

10/07/2006 12:15:00 PM  
Anonymous starroute said...

There's visualization and then there's visualization.

The first kind is roughly equivalent to wish-fulfillment fantasy. The second involves actual creative imagination.

To take a fairly low-level example, a 20-year old who wants to be rich and spends his time visualizing going to expensive restaurants, travelling abroad, or impressing beautiful women isn't going to get anywhere. But a 20-year old whose visualizations involve imagining a plausible path from point A to point B and then point C -- and who then makes decisions about education, employment, etc. in light of that visualization -- just might.

In the same way, "visualize world piece" is a no-starter. A far more useful approach is trying to visualize the steps by which we might get from here to there -- for example, what sorts of energy systems might make for a more peaceful planet, as opposed to the current oil-based system which seems designed to make wars inevitable.

As a more concrete example, I've read that the current, highly decentralized design of the internet goes back to someone -- I think von Neumann -- who deliberately conceived of it that way and set it out in theoretical papers before the actual internet was anywhere close to being a possibility.

If we start thinking now about the sort of world we might prefer to live in, and make every decision we take in light of that image -- down to what products we buy and what clothes we wear -- we have a chance of getting there. "Magical thinking" isn't going to do it -- but the actual magic of focused recognition can.

What's more that sort of focused recognition doesn't require us to have either a formal plan or any real power to achieve it. All we have to do is live our lives -- but to live them in the light of a higher vision rather than in dulled-out acceptance of the way things presently are.

10/07/2006 12:43:00 PM  
Anonymous little man said...

Off-thread dept.:
For the past week and a half, I been noticing the use of the phrase "frankly" on television. An excessive use. Normally, I would think much about it, more less bring it up to y'all, but it was kind of like my '23'. I first heard it being overused by Pat Buchannon, of all people. Then, a number of other faceless 'puntants'. Maybe, I thought, that sports show had something to do with it, until, it stuck out in an old Sienfeld re-run I was watching, and then, in other odd places, like just now on one of these posts!!! I'm sure it's nothing. Here's hoping we can all stay sane.

10/07/2006 12:46:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

Thank you for bringing my nagging obsession back into the conversation! This is something about which Jeff has written a number of times and which we have discussed at length--it just won't go away. The notion of an orchestrated event to focus human consciousness--the Consciousness Be-In--has a great deal of scientific and popular support. It only lacks the selection of a particular focal point and a network to inform the world of the project. Well, the network is there--between the internet and the old media, a very high percentage of the world could be informed, if the owners would either carry the news or a sort of simulcast of the event, as with the Beatles' "All You Need Is Love" broadcast in 1967.

I especially like the secondary benefit you pointed out here of such an event: the act of coming together to visualize the world differently arranged ("imagine there's no corporations, nothing to make us doomed") or even healed (one persistent suggestion for the focus is a massive, instantaneous reforestation, another even more popular idea is an overnight global saturation of cannabis cultivation, a kind of cosmic Johnny Hempseed). The question of what to visualize is important, not because the efficacy of consciousness as creation is doubtful, or because it's a weak force, which the "experiments" at Princeton always maintain in typical gate-keeper fashion, but because we want something that has a universal appeal. Someone wrote to me recently that we should (re-)create Yggdrasil, the world tree in Norse mythology, but that carries certain "pagan" baggage that would have the bible-humpers frothing in an unseemly manner. Likewise, popping another Great Pyramid into existence is problematic. It turns out that we are hamstrung by our cultural divisions, our crippled imaginative faculty, and by The Powers That Be. These difficulties, however, are not insurmountable; we're just told that they are.

There are forces at work which do not want this evolution of consciousness revolution to occur, but that doesn't mean it won't be televised. A good example is what was done to Amit Goswami, the mystic physicist. He achieved a certain theoretical breakthrough in this area, and TPTB reacted with the classic limited hang out/discrediting by association scheme. An execrable, dreadful, really stupid movie was made to discredit this idea (What the Bleep Do We Know?), in which Goswami and other physicists researching consciousness were put on the same screen with Ramtha and the whole New Age quackery cult of Imagine Yourself A New BMW, with the predictable result that most people who saw it reacted by ignoring the underlying science and perceiving the whole notion as insipid, selfish, and delusional. That didn't stop the scientists, however. Apologies in advance for the data dump that's coming. (Starroute: there is also a third way, something between the two alternatives you've suggested.) If you guys aren't interested in the theoretical framework for this idea, scroll past the following chunk of text, but it does explain a great deal of how this thing could work and it has links which lead to other interesting places:



The Self-Aware Universe

(An Interview with Amit Goswami [Abridged] by Craig Hamilton)

What is Enlightment?

WIE: To be honest, when I first saw the subtitle of your book I assumed you were speaking metaphorically. But after reading the book, and speaking with you about it now, I am definitely getting the sense that you mean it much more literally than I had thought. One thing in your book that really stopped me in my tracks was your statement that, according to your interpretation, the entire physical universe only existed in a realm of countless evolving possibilities until at one point, the possibility of a conscious, sentient being arose and that, at that point, instantaneously, the entire known universe came into being, including the fifteen billion years of history leading up to that point. Do you really mean that?

AG: I mean that literally. This is what quantum physics demands. In fact, in quantum physics this is called "delayed choice." And I have added to this concept the concept of "self-reference." Actually the concept of delayed choice is very old. It is due to a very famous physicist named John Wheeler, but Wheeler did not see the entire thing correctly, in my opinion. He left out self-reference. The question always arises, "The universe is supposed to have existed for fifteen billion years, so if it takes consciousness to convert possibility into actuality, then how could the universe be around for so long?" Because there was no consciousness, no sentient being, biological being, carbonbased being, in that primordial fireball which is supposed to have created the universe, the big bang.But this other way of looking at things says that the universe remained in possibility until there was self-referential quantum measurement—so that is the new concept. An observer's looking is essential in order to manifest possibility into actuality, and so only when the observer looks, only then does the entire thing become manifest—including time. So all of past time, in that respect, becomes manifest right at that moment when the first sentient being looks. It turns out that this idea, in a very clever, very subtle way, has been around in cosmology and astronomy under the guise of a principle called the "anthropic principle." That is, the idea has been growing among astronomers—cosmologists anyway—that the universe has a purpose. It is so fine-tuned, there are so many coincidences, that it seems very likely that the universe is doing something purposive, as if the universe is growing in such a way that a sentient being will arise at some point.

WIE: So you feel there's a kind of purposiveness to the way the universe is evolving; that, in a sense, it reaches its fruition in us, in human beings?

AG: Well, human beings may not be the end of it, but certainly they are the first fruition, because here is then the possibility of manifest creativity, creativity in the sentient being itself. The animals are certainly sentient, but they are not creative in the sense that we are. So human beings certainly right now seem to be an epitome, but this may not be the final epitome. I think we have a long way to go and there is a long evolution to occur yet.

WIE: In your book you even go so far as to suggest that the cosmos was created for our sake.

AG: Absolutely. But it means sentient beings, for the sake of all sentient beings. And the universe is us. That's very clear.The universe is self-aware, but it is self-aware through us. We are the meaning of the universe. We are not the geographical center of the universe—Copernicus was right about that—but we are the meaning center of the universe.

WIE: Through us the universe finds its meaning?

AG: Through sentient beings. And that doesn't have to be anthropocentric in the sense of only earthlings. There could be beings, sentient beings on other planets, in other stars—in fact I am convinced that there are—and that's completely consonant with this theory.

WIE: This human-centered—or even sentient-being-centered—stance seems quite radical at a time when so much of modern progressive thought, across disciplines from ecology to feminism to systems theory, is going in the opposite direction. These perspectives point more toward interconnectedness or interrelatedness, in which the significance of any one part of the whole—including one species, such as the human species—is being de-emphasized. Your view seems to hark back to a more traditional, almost biblical kind of idea. How would you respond to proponents of the prevailing "nonhierarchical" paradigm?

AG: It's the difference between the perennial philosophy that we are talking about, monistic idealism, and what is called a kind of pantheism. That is, these views—which I call "ecological worldviews" and which Ken Wilber calls the same thing—are actually denigrating God by seeing God as limited to the immanent reality. On the face of it, this sounds good because everything becomes divine—the rocks, the trees, all the way to human beings, and they are all equal and they are all divinity—it sounds fine, but it certainly does not adhere to what the spiritual teachers knew. In the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna says to Arjuna, "All these things are in me, but I am not in them." What does he mean by that? What he means is that "I am not exclusively in them." So there is evolution, in other words, in the manifest reality. Evolution happens. That means that the amoeba is, of course, a manifestation of consciousness, and so is the human being. But they are not in the same stage. Evolutionarily, yes, we are ahead of the amoeba. And these theories, these ecological-worldview people, they don't see that. They don't rightly understand what evolution is because they are ignoring the transcendent dimension, they are ignoring the purposiveness of the universe, the creative play. Ken Wilber makes this point very, very well in his book Sex, Ecology, Spirituality.

WIE: So you would say they have part of the picture but that without this other aspect that you are bringing in, their view is very—

AG: It's very limited. And that's why pantheism is very limited. When Westerners started going to India, they thought it was pantheistic because it has many, many gods. Indian philosophy tends to see God in nature, in many things—they worship rocks sometimes, that kind of thing—so they thought it was pantheistic and only somewhat later did they realize that there is a transcendent dimension. In fact, the transcendent dimension is developed extremely well in Indian philosophy, whereas the transcendent dimension in the West is hidden in the cave of a very few esoteric systems such as the Gnostics and a few great masters like Meister Eckhart. In Jesus' teachings you can see it in the Gospel according to Thomas. But you have to really dig deep to find that thread in the West. In India, in the Upanishads and the Vedanta and the Bhagavad Gita, it is very much explicit. Now, pantheism sounds very good. But it's only part of the story. It's a good way to worship, it's a good way to bring spirituality into your daily life, because it is good to acknowledge that there is spirit in everything. But if we just see the diversity, see the God in everything, but don't see the God which is beyond every particular thing, then we are not realizing our potential. We are not realizing our Self. And so, truly, Self-realization involves seeing this pantheistic aspect of reality, but also seeing the transcendent aspect of reality.

WIE: In addition to being a scientist, you are also a spiritual practitioner. Could you talk a little bit about what brought you to spirituality?

AG: Well, I'm afraid that is a pretty usual, almost classic, case. The ideal classic case, of course, is the famous case of the Buddha, who recognized at the age of twenty-nine that all of his pleasure as a prince was really a waste of time because there is suffering in the world. For me it was not that drastic, but when I was about thirty-seven the world started to fall apart on me. I lost my research grant, I had a divorce and I was very lonely. And the professional pleasure that I used to get by writing physics papers stopped being pleasure. But in that era, around thirty-seven, that particular world—where God didn't exist and where the meaning of life came just from brain-pursuits of glory in a profession—just did not satisfy me and did not bring happiness. In fact it was full of suffering. So I came to meditation. I wanted to see if there was any way of at least finding some solace, if not happiness. And eventually great joy came out of it, but that took time. And also, I must mention that I got married too, and the challenge of love was a very important one. In other words, I very soon discovered after I got married for the second time that love is very different than what I thought it was. So I discovered with my wife the meaning of love, and that was a big contribution also to my own spirituality.

WIE: It's interesting that, while you turned to spirituality because you felt that science wasn't really satisfying your own search for truth, you have nevertheless remained a scientist throughout.

AG: That's true. It's just that my way of doing science changed. What happened to me, the reason that I lost the joy of science, was because I had made it into a professional trip. I lost the ideal way of doing science, which is the spirit of discovery, the curiosity, the spirit of knowing truth. So I was not searching for truth anymore through science, and therefore I had to discover meditation, where I was searching for truth again, truth of reality. What is the nature of reality after all? You see the first tendency was nihilism, nothing exists; I was completely desperate. But meditation very soon told me that no, it's not that desperate. I had an experience. I had a glimpse that reality really does exist. Whatever it was I didn't know, but something exists. So that gave me the prerogative to go back to science and see if I could now do science with new energy and new direction and really investigate truth instead of investigating because of professional glory.

WIE: How then did your newly revived interest in truth, this spiritual core to your life, inform your practice of science?

AG: What happened was that I was not doing science anymore for the purpose of just publishing papers and doing problems which enabled you to publish papers and get grants. Instead, I was doing the really important problems. And the really important problems of today are very paradoxical and very anomalous. Well, I'm not saying that traditional scientists don't have a few important problems. There are a few important problems there too. But one of the problems I discovered very quickly that would lead me, I just intuited, to questions of reality was the quantum measurement problem. You see, the quantum measurement problem is supposed to be a problem which forever derails people from any professional achievement because it's a very difficult problem. People have tried it for decades and have not been able to solve it. But I thought, "I have nothing to lose and I am going to investigate only truth, so why not see?" Quantum physics was something I knew very well. I had researched quantum physics all my life, so why not do the quantum measurement problem? So that's how I came to ask this question, "What agency converts possibility into actuality?" And it still took me from 1975 to 1985 until, through a mystical breakthrough, I came to recognize this.

WIE: Could you describe that breakthrough?

AG: Yes, I'd love to. It's so vivid in my mind. You see, the wisdom was in those days—and this was in every sort of book, The Tao of Physics, The Dancing Wu Li Masters, Fred Alan Wolf's Taking the Quantum Leap, and some other books too—everywhere the wisdom was that consciousness must be an emergent phenomenon of the brain. And despite the fact that some of these people, to their credit, were giving consciousness causal efficacy, no one could explain how it happened. That was the mystery because, after all, if it's an emergent phenomenon of the brain, then all causal efficacy must ultimately come from the material elementary particles. So this was a puzzle to me. This was a puzzle to everybody. And I just couldn't find any way to solve it. David Bohm talked about hidden variables, so I toyed with his ideas of an explicate order and an implicate order, that kind of thing—but this wasn't satisfactory because in Bohm's theory, again, there is no causal efficacy that is given to consciousness. It is all a realist theory. In other words, it is a theory on which everything can be explained through mathematical equations. There is no freedom of choice, in other words, in reality. So I was just struggling and struggling because I was convinced that there is real freedom of choice. So then one time—and this is where the breakthrough happened—my wife and I were in Ventura, California and a mystic friend, Joel Morwood, came down from Los Angeles, and we all went to hear Krishnamurti. And Krishnamurti, of course, is extremely impressive, a very great mystic. So we heard him and then we came back home. We had dinner and we were talking, and I was giving Joel a spiel about my latest ideas of the quantum theory of consciousness and Joel just challenged me. He said, "Can consciousness be explained?" And I tried to wriggle my way through that but he wouldn't listen. He said, "You are putting on scientific blinders. You don't realize that consciousness is the ground of all being." He didn't use that particular word, but he said something like, "There is nothing but God." And something flipped inside of me which I cannot quite explain. This is the ultimate cognition, that I had at that very moment. There was a complete about-turn in my psyche and I just realized that consciousness is the ground of all being. I remember staying up that night, looking at the sky and having a real mystical feeling about what the world is, and the complete conviction that this is the way the world is, this is the way that reality is, and one can do science. You see, the prevalent notion—even among people like David Bohm—was, "How can you ever do science without assuming that there is reality and material and all this? How can you do science if you let consciousness do things which are ‘arbitrary'?" But I became completely convinced—there has not been a shred of doubt ever since—that one can do science on this basis. Not only that, one can solve the problems of today's science. And that is what is turning out. Of course all the problems did not get solved right on that night. That night was the beginning of a new way of doing science.

WIE: That's interesting. So that night something really did shift for you in your whole approach. And everything was different after that?

AG: Everything was different.

WIE: Did you then find, in working out the details of what it would mean to do science in this context, that you were able to penetrate much more deeply or that your own scientific thinking was transformed in some way by this experience?

AG: Right. Exactly. What happened was very interesting. I was stuck, as I said, I was stuck with this idea before: "How can consciousness have causal efficacy?" And now that I recognized that consciousness was the ground of being, within months all the problems of quantum measurement theory, the measurement paradoxes, just melted away. I wrote my first paper which was published in 1989, but that was just refinement of the ideas and working out details. The net upshot was that the creativity, which got a second wind on that night in 1985, took about another three years before it started fully expressing itself. But ever since I have been just blessed with ideas after ideas, and lots of problems have been solved—the problem of cognition, perception, biological evolution, mind-body healing. My latest book is called Physics of the Soul. This is a theory of reincarnation, all fully worked out. It has been just a wonderful adventure in creativity.

WIE: So it sounds pretty clear that taking an interest in the spiritual, in your case, had a significant effect on your ability to do science. Looking through the opposite end of the lens, how would you say that being a scientist has affected your spiritual evolution?

AG: Well, I stopped seeing them as separate, so this identification, this wholeness, the integration of the spiritual and the scientific, was very important for me. Mystics often warn people, "Look, don't divide your life into this and that." For me it came naturally becauseI discovered the new way of doing science when I discovered spirit. Spirit was the natural basis of my being, so after that, whatever I do, I don't separate them very much.

WIE: You mentioned a shift in your motivation for doing science—how what was driving you started to turn at a certain point. That's one thing that we've been thinking about a lot as we've been looking into this issue: What is it that really motivates science? And how is that different from what motivates spiritual pursuit? Particularly, there have been some people we have discussed—thinkers like E. F. Schumacher or Huston Smith, for example—who feel that ever since the scientific revolution, when Descartes's and Newton's ideas took hold, the whole approach of science has been to try to dominate or control nature or the world. Such critics question whether science could ever be a genuine vehicle for discovering the deepest truths, because they feel that science is rooted in a desire to know for the wrong reasons. Obviously, in your work you have been very immersed in the scientific world—you know a lot of scientists, you go to conferences, you're surrounded by all of that and also, perhaps, you struggle with that motivation in yourself. Could you speak a little more about your experience of that?

AG: Yes, this is a very, very good question; we have to understand it very deeply. The problem is that in this pursuit, this particular pursuit of science, including the books that we mentioned earlier, The Tao of Physics and TheDancing Wu Li Masters, even when spirituality is recognized within the materialist worldview, God is seen only in the immanent aspect of divinity. What that means is: you have said that there is only one reality. By saying that there is only one reality—material reality—even when you imbue matter with spirituality, because you are still dealing with only one level, you are ignoring the transcendent level. And therefore you are only looking at half of the pie; you are ignoring the other half. Ken Wilber makes this point very, very well. So what has to be done of course—and that's when the stigma of science disappears—is to include the other half into science. Now, before my work, I think it was very obscure how this inclusion has to be done. Although people like Teilhard de Chardin, Aurobindo or Madame Blavatsky, the founder of the Theosophy movement, recognized that such a science could have come, very few could actually see it. So what I have done is to give actual flesh to all these visions that took place early in the century. And when you do that, when you recognize that science can be based on the primacy of consciousness, then this deficiency isn't there anymore. In other words then, the stigma that science is only separateness goes away. The materialist science is a separatist science. The new science, though, says that the material part of the world does exist, the separative movement is part of reality also, but it is not the only part of reality. There is separation, and then there is integration. So in my book The Self-Aware Universe I talk about the hero's journey for the entire scientific endeavor. I said that, well, four hundred years ago, with Galileo, Copernicus, Newton and others, we started the separatist sail and we went on a separate journey of separateness, but that's only the first part of the hero's journey. Then the hero discovers and the hero returns. It is the hero's return that we are now witnessing through this new paradigm.
Back to Part 1


Anyone wishing to discuss this or contribute suggestions for a focal point of the grand experiment, etc, can do so here. Sorry again for eating all that space...

10/07/2006 01:04:00 PM  
Anonymous Billy Shears said...

To anon

Keep what up, exactly? Oh, I guess by me asking that I've proven that I don't know anything. Jeez, you were right. But I guess you already knew that. You're right about everything, right?

Dick.

10/07/2006 01:19:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What a mean "Billy Shears." It's all about you, isn't it? Hope you get better.

10/07/2006 01:43:00 PM  
Anonymous Shrubageddon said...

In the same way, "visualize world piece" is a no-starter.

Oh, yeah!! Vegas, Baby!!

That's what I'm talking about!!

That Orgy post worked its way past your blood-brain barrier, Starroute.

I mean, visualizing the world getting a piece? Holy Smoke!!

Thta puts the song Coke hijacked into perspective.

I'd like to teach the world to sing........In perfect harmony.

I bet "they" would....."them," with their aspirations for a monoculture.

Fight to maintain diversity......and bring back the orgies.....but only if the chicks look like the chicks in Eyes Wide Shut.....and if you're a woman, only if the dudes look like Chris Farley, of course....and for those in between, only if the asexuals look like Pat from SNL.

10/07/2006 02:57:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

thanks cuttlefish, really interesting. guy next door, i for one am aboard. don't let the haters get you down.

10/07/2006 03:47:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jeff, you wouldn't have fallen victim to this years "flu" would you? I just happened to live in the West coast area of the U.S. where the first cases showed up. Funny how they showed so early this year and they sure did know the exact strain days before. It's almost as if they're spraying us with it.

In California this year four people have died after contracting West Nile virus, and while mosquito season is coming to a close, California Department of Health Services spokeswoman Michelle Mussuto reports that fogging to kill the virus-carrying insects will continue.

According to state data, seven Bay Area counties have been affected by West Nile virus, with eight cases -- two of them fatal -- occurring in Contra Costa, six in Solano, five in Santa Clara, and one case each in Napa, Marin and Alameda counties.


http://cbs5.com/localwire/localfsnews/bcn/2006/10/07/n/HeadlineNews/NEWS-ROUNDUP/resources_bcn_html

10/07/2006 04:47:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

There's also this, from the same report.

Mussuto said overall there have been 242 human cases of West Nile in California this year, four of them fatal, and while mosquitoes carrying West Nile virus tend to be less active during the fall and winter months, Mussuto said vector control districts "will continue mosquito fogging throughout the year, targeting larger pools of water.''

According to Deborah Bass, spokeswoman for the Contra Costa Mosquito and Vector Control District, "We have mosquito breeding year-round, so people need to remain diligent about getting rid of standing water, making sure that their property drains properly, and, if you are out and noticing mosquitoes, of course use repellent.''

10/07/2006 04:50:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ancient Pagan Female Worship

'Omphali'


The sacred centres which each civilisation seems to create or adopt.
Many of these involve stones - the Lia F il (Stone of Destiny) at Tara or the various 'king stones' (such as Kingston upon Thames) where medieval English kings were crowned.
Our monarchs still sit on, or at least above, the Stone of Scone for their coronation.
But some of these sacred stones have special interest - they are (or are said to be) black.
Such Black Stones also tend to have the legend that they have fallen from the stars. Clearly, meteorites the size of these large boulders would explode into tiny fragments on impact, and also leave a substantial crater.
The literal truth is not important; rather the symbolism of such stones being a link between this world and the heavens is an integral aspect of the Cosmic Axis which is invoked by all sacred centres.
Perhaps the best-known Black Stone, and now by far the most revered, is the Ka'bah at Mecca. Ka'bah means 'cube' and this describes the shape of the black stone structure on a marble base which stands in the centre court of the Great Mosque, Masjidul Haram, at the centre of Mecca. It stands about 50 feet high by about 35 feet wide. Set into the eastern corner is the sacred stone, covered by an elaborately embroidered black drape. As any non-moslem in the temple would be slain on sight, and photography is generally prohibited, this stone is shrouded is mystery. However, Rufus Camphausen has succeeded in tracking down three accounts of the pilgrimage to Mecca, two of which do contain photographs [1-3]. What these reveal is a polished black stone of which less than two feet is visible, set in a large, solid silver mount. The whole resembles - quite deliberately, for reasons which will emerge - the vulva of the goddess. That moslems now refer to it as the Hand of Allah does not diminish the urge for all those who complete the pilgrimage to Mecca to touch or kiss this sacred object.
The Black Stone has long since been broken and the silver band holds together the fragments. Tradition holds that it was a meteorite and the stone was white in colour when it first landed and then blackened. The faithful attribute this change in colour to the belief that the stone absorbs the sins of the pilgrims, but it is consistent with known meteorites which are white at first but oxidise over a period of time.
'A principal sacred object in Arabian religion was the stone. . . . Such stones were thought to be the residence of a god hence the term applied to them by Byzantine Christian writers of the fifth and sixth centuries: 'baetyl', from bet'el, 'the house of god'.' [4]
'In north Arabian temples the image of the deity sometimes stood in the open air or could be sheltered in a qubbah, a vaulted niche. . . . Not to be confused with the qubbah is the word ka'bah, for a cube-shaped walled structure which . . . served as a shelter for the sacred stones.' [5]
Camphausen, in his article [6], reveals that the misogynic moslem religion has its origins in goddess worship. Allah is a revamped version of the ancient goddess Al'Lat, and it was her shrine which has continued - little changed - as the Ka'bah. The known history of Mohammed reveals that he was born around 570 CE into a tribe of the Quraysh, who not only worshipped the goddess Q're but were the sworn guardians of her shrine. By 622 Mohammed was preaching the ways of his god, Allah, and was driven out by his own tribe as a result.
The triple goddess
Pre-islamic worship of the goddess seems to be primarily associated with Al'Lat, which simply means 'goddess'. She is a triple goddess, similar to the Greek lunar deity Kore/Demeter/Hecate. Each aspect of this trinity corresponds to a phase of the moon. In the same way Al'Lat has three names known to the initiate: Q're, the crescent moon or the maiden; Al'Uzza, literally 'the strong one' who is the full moon and the mother aspect; then Al'Menat, the waning but wise goddess of fate, prophecy and divination. Islamic tradition continue to recognise these three but labels them 'daughters of Allah'.
According to Edward Rice [7] Al'Uzza was especially worshipped at the Ka'bah where she was served by seven priestesses. Her worshippers circled the holy stone seven times - once for each of the ancient seven planets - and did so in total nudity. Near the Ka'bah is the ever-flowing well, Zamzam, which cools the throats of the countless millions of pilgrims.
In an oasis of always-flowing water, the Black Stone in its mount became an unmatched image of the goddess as giver of life. Only in the Indian continent do such physical symbols for the male and female generative powers - the lingam and yoni - continue to be worshipped with their original fervour.
It is easy to imagine that in pre-moslem times the goddess's temple at Mecca was pre-eminent - whether to celebrate life, ask protection, pray for offspring. Legend tells how Abraham, unable to produce children by his wife Sarah, came here to make love to his slave Hagar. Later, when Hagar came back to give birth, she could find no water and Abraham created the holy well of Zamzam to save the life of his first son.
When Mohammed wanted to surplant Al'Lut with Allah, this was the one Temple he must conquer. Although Mohammed did conquer the Ka'bah, little else changed. The faithful still circle the Holy of Holies seven times (although, I hasten to add, now fully clothed). The priests of the sacred shrine are still known as Beni Shaybah or 'Sons of the Old Woman' - Shaybah being, of course, the famous Queen Sheeba of Solomon's times.
Sheeba appears under the guise of Lilith in the Near East and as Hagar ('the Egyptian') in the Hebrew mythology of the Old Testament. So, rewriting the legend given above, Abraham begot his son, Ishmael - the ancestor of all Arab peoples - by the goddess on the Black Stone of the Ka'bah.
While we are tracing names, Q're (or Qure), the maiden aspect of Al'Lut, seems certain to be the origin of the Greek Kore. Camphausen suggests that the holy Koran (qur'an in Arabic) is the 'Word of Qure'. Even moslems admit that the work existed before the time of Mohammed. Legend said it was copied form a divine prototype that appeared in heaven at the beginning of time, or the Mother of the Book [8]. Al'Uzza, the mother aspect of Al'Lut, may give us the pre-dynastic Egyptian snake goddess Ua Zit, who develops into Isis.
Archaeo-astronomy
Returning to the geomantic significance of the Ka'bah, Professor Hawkins has argued that it is exceedingly accurately aligned on two heavenly phenomena. These are the cycles of the moon and the rising of Canopus, the brightest star after Sirius. In a thirteenth-century Arabic manuscript by Mohammed ibn Abi Bakr Al Farisi it is stated that the alignment is set up for the setting crescent moon - an ancient symbol of the virgin-goddess which still appears in the national flags of many islamic nations. In some flags - Algeria, Mauritania, Tunisia and Turkey - the crescent is accompanied by a star, perhaps representing Canopus.
The Egyptian city known as Canopus seems also have been a goddess temple, as the Greek historian Strabo (63BCE-21CE) considered the place to be notorious for wild sexual activities. Such references typically refer to temples where sacred 'prostitution' or ritual promiscuity were part of the worship; invariably sacred objects depicting the genitals of either god and/or goddess were venerated. Such sacred promiscuity continued to be part of the Pilgrimage to Mecca, at least for some moslems. The Shi'ites from Persia were allowed to form temporary 'marriages' for the period of the pilgrimage. Any children born as a result were regarded as divine or as saints - a custom with worldwide parallels (English surnames such as Goodman, Jackson or Robinson perhaps derive from similar sacred unions with god in the form of Green Men characters such as Jack o'the Green or Robin Greenwood; I would also suggest that the original sense of 'godparent' and 'godchild' has similar origins.)
More Black Stones
Deities of other cultures known to have been associated with stones include Aphrodite at Paphos, Cybele at Pessinus and later Rome, Astarte at Byblos and the famous Artemis/Diana of Ephesus. The latter's most ancient sculpture was, it is said, carved from a black meteorite.
The earliest form of Cybele's name may have been Kubaba or Kumbaba which suggests Humbaba, who was the guardian of the forest in the Epic of Gilgamesh (the world's oldest recorded myth from Assyria of c.2500BCE and, as scholars reveal more of the text, increasingly the source of most of the major mythological themes of later civilisations [9]) [10]. The origin of Kubaba may have been kube or kuba meaning (guess what) - 'cube'. The earliest reference we have to a goddess worshipped as a cube-shaped stone is from neolithic Anatolia [11]. Alternatively, 'Kubaba' may mean a hollow vessel or cave - which would still be a supreme image of the goddess. The ideograms for Kubaba in the Hittite alphabet are a lozenge or cube, a double-headed axe, a dove, a vase and a door or gate - all images of the goddess in neolithic Europe.
The stone associated with Cybele's worship was, originally, probably at Pessinus but perhaps at Pergamum or on Mount Ida. What is certain is that in 204 BCE it was taken to Rome, where Cybele became 'Mother' to the Romans. The ecstatic rites of her worship were alien to the Roman temperament, but nevertheless animated the streets of their city during the annual procession of the goddess's statue. Alongside Isis, Cybele retained prominence in the heart of the Empire until the fifth century CE; the stone was then lost. Her cult prospered throughout the Empire and it is said that every town or village remained true to the worship of Cybele [12].
The home of Aphrodite was at Paphos on Cyprus. Various Classical writers describe the rituals which went on her in her honour - these seem to include the practice which is now known by the disdainful term of 'sacred prostitution'. In any event, the tapering black stone which was the object of verneration at this Temple still survives, even if it now placed inside the site musuem [13].
Also on Cyprus is another highly venerated islamic site - the third most important after Mecca and Medina - the Hala Sultan Tekke. This, too, has a black rock, said to have fallen as a meteorite as part of the tritholon over the shrine. The shrine is to a woman - the aunt and foster mother of Prophet Mohammed [14]. Could this, like Mecca, have been originally a goddess shrine? Unfortunately no other clues are forthcoming.
Another site stated to have a Black Stone was at Petra, but I have been unable to discover where this was or who was worshipped there - could any readers who know please write in!
To add a little local flavour, numerous standing stones in the British Isles are reputed to have fallen from the stars. The now-lost Star Stone marked the meeting of Leicestershire, Nottinghamshire and Lincolnshire; an also-vanished stone at Grimston, Leicestershire, was also said to have such an origin. However, whether or not such stones were ever associated with goddess worship we will never know.
It would take far too long to discuss to what extent the cult of the goddess's Black Stone may have been perpetrated as Solomon's bride in the Song of Songs, who is 'black but beautiful' or to come to terms with the black images of Demeter, Artemis and Isis who have their direct continuation in the Black Virgins of Europe - patrons of the troubadours, the gnostics and the alchemists, as well as the present Pope.

10/07/2006 05:40:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ephesus was the greatest Temple City in Asia Minor. It was dedicated to the Great Goddess Artemis Diana.

This Temple was the last of the Great Goddess Temples to remain open and was the site of Goddess worship well into the christian era.

It was at Ephesus that the christian church declared Mary to be the "the God-bearer" in 431 C.E. This move was intended to legitimize christianity in the eyes of the people of Asia Miinor. Prior to 431 C.E. Mary was not recognized by the Christian church.

Many of the Great Goddess's titles were taken, and declared to be the titles of Mary, including; "Queen of Heaven", "Divine Virgin", "Mother of All". Ephesus was chosen for Mary's installation to add legitimacy to the church's claim that Mary, not Diana, was "the Mother of God", the "Mother of All."

"Easter" was taken from Astaroth. Originally known as "Ashtar." This holiday coincides with the Vernal Equinox of spring when day and night are of equal length. Known as "Eastre" to the Anglo-Saxons. As the Goddess of fertility, she was associated with rabbits and eggs. The Christians did a make over for this holiday and twisted its meaning. Other names include: Easter Eastre Eos Eostre Ester Estrus (Estrus is when an animal goes into heat; mating season) Oestrus Oistros and Ostara. The "Lamb of God" was from the Zodiac sign of Aries the Ram which occurs every spring.

10/07/2006 06:03:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wow. All of a sudden, insults started flying, for no real reason... I personally don't see the need or virtue in anonymously, virtually stomping on other people simply because they express an opinion that we don't like--not even one that is violent, evil, immoral, amoral or vaguely disgusting. You're not going to change their minds, and the moment anyone drops to ad hominem attacks, the chances of getting anything from the discussion drops drastically. By al means disagree: but do it respectfully and reasonably, and, y'know, try actually listening to and thinking about what the other person says before you nuke them. Remember, that's what separates us from the Bill O'Reillys and Sean Hannitys of the world. But whatever.
All that physics stuff is interesting, but I wonder at one of the assertions in that interveiw: that the universe merely existed as a superposition of events until some conscious being popped up to collapse it into its current form. Seems kinda non-disprovable, to me.
However, the universe is a weird place.

10/07/2006 06:33:00 PM  
Blogger The Guy next door said...

i had almost given up the thought myself, but after some positive responses i think its worth pursuing (irrespective of what some people say).
i agree with Starroute when he says that the focus should be absolute, i.e.visualizing world peace is no good.
what we take as the focal point, no doubt has to be a very small but significant factor. what we choose (which falls in this realm) is open to discussion. what i would suggest is a dedicated forum/blog.
all those interested may post on my blog.
about those who do not think it is possible, well, we'll never know unless we try, would we.
tc

10/07/2006 07:25:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

quote:

"It was at Ephesus that the christian church declared Mary to be the "the God-bearer"

..Like a Virgin, hey!--
touched for the very first time...


EXTRA EXTRA EXTRA!

And just consider this a TV 'scroll bar' that quietly takes center stage for a moment with startling news, and then crawls off the other side...:

It seems a lot of parapolitical films have made it to the channel surfing level of the collective internet consciousness of course in the past year.

However, with the Foley pedophilia case, a serious watching fest is occuring now on the film Conspiracy of Silence about it.

At google, besides the months of 9-11 films that have been there, including Jones's Terrorstorm (do see that as well), I was surprised to find the U.S./BBC film documentary Conspiracy of Silence--about Bush family/Republican Party pedophile network/snuff filming/drug muling--is in the top 100.

I though this worthy of announcement and recognition.

Dive bomb neocon and conservative sites with the link, if you have nothing else to do:

90 New!
conspiracy of silence (good quality version)
Banned Discovery Channel Documentary on U.S. Republican party national pedophile network
produced by U.S./British documentary film team,
filmed and scheduled to air in 1994--Congressional Republicans intervened to stop it airing on the Discovery Channel to keep it from outing their pedophile network activities.
(60 ratings) 56 min

And yes, this is a really clear version of it.

The day it got its first visability, four thousand people watched it:

4,639 views »
4,075 of which were yesterday

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4946110250157218995

10/07/2006 07:31:00 PM  
Anonymous starroute said...

shrub -

Yeah, I noticed that "piece" business when I got back in from shopping. A real "oh crap" moment.

On the other hand, while I was out, I saw a bumper sticker commanding me to "Visualize whirled peas." Since then, I keep having images of green sludgy stuff going round and round in a blender.

I'll let y'all know if anything magical comes of it.

10/07/2006 09:07:00 PM  
Blogger David Bruce Hughes said...

Why spend valuable time and energy discussing magick, consciousness and such if it has no practical use? The people who do ritual magick using nonconsensual techniques have been well documented on this site. Let's use the same powers to accomplish something positive. I discuss these subjects more elaborately on my blog, theperfectionofyoga.org

10/07/2006 10:43:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

With regard to the "group mind" experiment - I suggest picturing some of the major perpetrators confessing in public. Repentance, too, for that matter. The truth coming out from the mouths of the perpetrators, for a change. (We'd need to decide on which perpetrators, and other details.)

Does it help if everyone does the mental work at the same time of day? Supposedly the noon hour was used in England during WWII, with success.

10/08/2006 03:55:00 AM  
Blogger Sounder said...

Frank said;

Your idea is one quarter step this side of frank psychosis.

If I didn't know better, I'd think you were Sounder.

Actually Frank, that would not be me, because my bag is to point towards the center so that people like the guy next door, can (eventually) have better outlets for their energy.

Yeah... I know---psychotic... and anti-social too...ohhk

10/08/2006 05:23:00 AM  
Anonymous Avicenna, a.k.a. Ibn Sina & Ignatz Semmelweiss, MD said...

.

Dear Cuttlefish,

Thank you for posting the interview with Amit Goswami. It is engaging on many levels. Having read most of your posts for many months, I think this is by far the most interesting and potentially intelligent thing you have ever put up in this space, though perhaps for reasons other than those that motivated you to do so. I don’t consider it a “data dump” at all. Quite the contrary. It had a wealth of words worth savoring. Please forgive me if this reply seems in any way wordy itself.

Goswami talks very eloquently about the encounter between Krishna and Arjuna from the Bhagavad Gita and their discussion on the nature of being and transcendence, God and reality. The Gita is one of the pith texts of the world’s wisdom literature, actually a later Vedantic poetic synopsis of a scene originally found in the much older epic Mahabarata. Indeed, though it is Vishnavite in its orientation, one can find the essence of all of “Hinduism” within the Bhagavad Gita, right down to practical instructions for how to meditate, how to pray, the basics of karma yoga, bhakti yoga, raja yoga, and the most subtle of philosophies, “Act fully, with all effort, but do not be attached to the fruits of your actions.”

This is the core message of the Gita and it is one of the highest teachings of several traditions, Islam among them. A hadith qudsi (one of the “inspired” sayings of Muhammad, as opposed to those of his personal utterances which are merely personal in origin) states that one should “act with such vigor and determination as if the outcome depends only on one’s actions, but have faith so deep and complete that one knows the outcome to be determined by the will of God. For God loves most those who work and try.” Certainly not the most eloquent translation of this hadith, but it contains the essence of it.

When Goswami talks about the seminal event which reinvigorated his creative energies to do scientific research, he mentions that it was sparked by a friend's utterance of the phrase "There is nothing but God." This is a variant translation of the muslim declaration of faith, “La ilaha illa Llah,” literally “there is no god but God,” but often translated by Muslims, particularly Sufis, as “There is no reality but God” or “Nothing exists but God.”

Goswami goes on to talk about pantheism and monism. He confuses things a bit by failing to mention that monism is simply the theory or belief that all is one, but Goswami correctly states more than once that pantheism is the identification of the entire universe, all of life, all of matter, all of being with God, or the divine. He goes on to state correctly that this is only part of the picture, identifying the “immanent” with God, but leaving out the “transcendent.” This is a critical statement. For it is the identification of the world/universe alone with the Divine that is the linchpin of the Luciferian philosophy and mindset. This half truth, that God is the world, is as dangerous as all half truths.

The exact point made by Goswami is also found in Islam, right in the Qur’an, in the form of the 99 beautiful names, al asma al husna, which denote the divine aspects. Among the names are Al Zahir ~ the Manifest, and Al Batin ~ the Hidden, or Veiled. It is this latter aspect, the Hidden, the transcendental, that which is not of this world, which provides the complementary, missing half of the truth. This Hidden points to something even subtler, God’s essence, that which is beyond our ability ever to know. Unlike the 99 names and the aspects of God they denote, God’s Essence is considered not to be an object of contemplation. In fact, it is expressly forbidden even by the most Gnostic of Sufis, such as Ibn al Arabi.

The Andalusian sufi Ibn al Arabi has been termed a “pantheistic monist” or a “monistic pantheist,” but this is still an incomplete picture because, as Goswami repeatedly stated from his Hindu perspective, it leaves out the transcendental, called Al Batin in Islam, the Hidden, the Veiled. But still the Hidden is a fit object for meditation, for contemplation. It could be considered that plenum void out of which the universe arises, in search of consciousness, as Goswami also beautifully noted.

Another Hadith Qudsi states “I was a Hidden Treasure, waiting to be known.” This hadith finds its way into the poetry of Rumi’s Masnavi “I was Hidden, a treasure wanting to be known. So I created mankind.”

This dance of void and manifest, personified as Purusha and Prakriti in samkhya yoga, later known as Shakti and Shiva, or the YabYum pair of copulating meditating yogi/yogini in Tantrayana, as well as the pair of Al Zahir and Al Batin, all express the same divine reality, the pairing of void and consciousness, the necessity of creation for the benefit/blessing of sentience, the universe coming into being as an expression of divine love for the purpose of self-reflection, awareness, and bliss in Unity, through yoga, the yoking or joining, the re-unification of the divine whole, the One, the Only.

All of that still does not entail contemplation of the Essence, which even Ibn al Arabi, who was himself considered to be a heretic by many muslim scholars, would never even have imagined undertaking. Which brings us back to the issues at hand: the nature of human action, the fruits of those actions, the divine will, and the purpose of your posting this interview. Nothing too heavy.

Let me digress to the PEAR Lab for a moment. I know Dean (Robert) Jahn from his days at the Princeton College of Engineering, through mutual colleagues, and from participation with him in a small seminar with the Dalai Lama. Everything about PEARL that I read in today’s post, up to the Goswami interview (I haven’t had time away from work to read any further) is reasonably accurate, but incomplete. There is also the matter of “backward causality” or causation which works backwards in time.

The backward causality is demonstrated by the use of the random number generator to create a huge quantity of 1’s and 0’s which should be equal in amount, if enough are generated. Then weeks or months later people are asked to use their minds to influence the selection in favor of either ones or zeros. The data show an effect which is imputed to be backward causality in time by the team of Jahn and Brenda Dunne, his companion and co-researcher.

But why not consider it to be an effect of the random number generator on the later consciousnesses of the participants in the experimental paradigm? This is not a trivial question, but to my knowledge, Jahn et alia never address it. It opens up even broader vistas of possibilities for consideration. And yes, the conscious effects on quantum events seem magnified when worked on by a male and female pair, and are even more greatly magnified when that man and woman are in love.

The Dalai Lama made a little joke about this finding in the seminar, laughing about what that might mean for buddhist monks and nuns. Of course, Tantrayana is meant to be practiced by a man and a woman together in a tantric relationship, where each one knows the divine to be embodied by the partner, and each surrenders completely to that divine. This can be dicey, to say the least, if both people are not truly in complete humility and in love in service of the One. But that’s another discussion, and one as long as a couple of lifetimes.

So, where does this “Be-in” thing fit in? I certainly dug the Beatles broadcast of “All You Need Is Love.” I saw it live when it happened. Still remember it. But is a t.v. show an apt vehicle for helping to heal the human race, to stop the illuminati bastards (because yes, they do exist, Virginia, unlike Santa Clause), or whatever you want to call them, dead in their tracks, and/or to plant the seed for healthy future growth?

I rather doubt it, to put it mildly. This is especially so when one considers the few corporations which control the vast bulk of the world’s media: NBC, owned by nuclear and conventional weapons manufacturer General Electric; Fox/Sky, controlled by right wing madman and apologist for Israel, Rupert Murdoch; Viacom/ CBS/ Paramount/ MTV/ VH-1, owned by Sumner Redstone; ABC/ Capital Cities/ Disney of Clear Channel ilk; Bertelsmann; CNN/ Time/ Warner/ HBO a.k.a. satan’s own, founded and owned by Skull and Boners, and a couple of others.

They would attempt to subvert it for their own nefarious purposes.

And to what end? The comment you made about TPTB having shut down and/or made fun of Amit Goswami is not accurate. In fact, sadly, Goswami himself loses the thread when he claims that his goal is to place the transcendental under microscope and calipers of science, and to subsume quantum consciousness, no less the Divine, under scientific inquiry for its further elucidation. This is merely Luciferian thinking writ large in the lab.

So “they”, i.e. TPTB wouldn’t diss Goswami or thwart him on that account, because this part of his research plan supports their ultimate goal. Now he may not realize this, and in fact he sounds like, sounds like, a genuine seeker and lover of God. It would be lovely if this were true. And if this were true, then THAT would explain why the PTB would want to shut him down. Because they don’t feel he can be twisted sufficiently or perverted in his task or his quest. No good guys allowed to succeed here, especially in such an important field of endeavour.

As for the “creative visualization” thing, it won’t work. Not for the good anyway. At least certainly not with television as its vehicle. Try taking real, concrete steps and praying to God at the same time. To have a billion people tuned in, or zoned out, at the same time would certainly be a handy vehicle for sales pitches, á la Super Bowl commercials. Or worse, for something like “demonic possession” on a mass scale. Or more mundane but no less dangerous forms of mind control by subliminal t.v. programmers and their occult minions. Scoff, if you really have to. I hate to be a cynic, but it seems like such a planned event would only be more likely to further the “System of Antichrist” that gives these guys a woody. There is no such thing as "magic for a good purpose," with or without the ersatz Middle English terminal k. Take it on faith, if you will, or from your own personal discovery. The truth of this statement is part of, and flows naturally from, the foregoing discussion. But, I fear I have gone on too long, and will just leave it for another time.

There are a host of ways to do discernible good, some big, some small, for one or more of the mass of human beings in need of a hand in each corner of our beleaguered planet, which will ultimately benefit all of the sentient life on it which is currently under assault. A publicized act of group visualization, in my personal opinion, is more likely to yield bitter fruit. Think globally. Act locally. But don’t visualize Whirled Peas. Be a karma yogin. Make each breath, each thought, each word, each deed an act of radical love, of manifest peace, of devotion to the divine that is embodied by each one of us. If each of us does that, the world indeed will change. Indeed, it will already have changed.

10/08/2006 05:29:00 AM  
Blogger The Guy next door said...

very insightful avicenna,
but i am just wondering if "the visualization/ collective consciousness" idea really falls into the category of majick?
or is it closer to faith than we all here think? i mean all we plan to do is visualize some event (i thought of imagining a million people holding placards and demonstrating shown on TV). now isn't that only possible with faith? faith that the supernatural powers (aka God) will bring it to fruition or manifest it in ITS own way? please do write back, coz its a question that needs to be answered.
tc

10/08/2006 06:17:00 AM  
Blogger Sounder said...

avicenna, you nailed it. Although some will see it as a bit 'conservative'.

Occasionally I will greet a Muslim on the street with "La ilaha illa Llah".

The reaction is impressive and you do not have to be Muslim to embrace the sentiment.

Now about this Lucifer stuff, --feel free to take it further.

10/08/2006 06:38:00 AM  
Blogger OpLan said...

levitate the Pentagon without holding hands?
"If we think real hard,maybe we can stop this rain...no rain no rain no rain"

I was browsing 2012 websites after it came up on the RI bb..heres one guy next door might find inspiring..

http://educate-yourself.org/ww/oct2006cosmictriggerevent25sep06.shtml

"A Cosmic Trigger Event will occur on the 17th of October 2006.

By Raphiem/Blue

This is the beginning, one of many trigger events to come between now and 2013. An ultraviolet (UV) pulse beam radiating from higher dimensions in universe-2 will cross paths with the Earth on this day. Earth will remain approximately within this UV beam for 17 hours of your time.

This beam resonates with the heart chakra, it is radiant fluorescent in nature, blue/magenta in color. Although it resonates in this frequency band, it is above the color frequency spectrum of your universe-1 which you, Earth articulate in. However due to the nature of your soul and soul groups operating from Universe-2 frequency bands it will have an effect.

The effect is every thought and emotion will be amplified intensely one million-fold. Yes, we will repeat, all will be amplified one millions time and more.

Every thought, every emotion, every intent, every will, no matter if it is good, bad, ill, positive, negative, will be amplified one million times in strength.

What does this mean ?

Since all matter manifest is due to your thoughts, i.e. what you focus on, this beam will accelerate these thoughts and solidify them at an accelerated rate making them manifest a million times faster than they normally would.

For those that do not comprehend. Your thoughts, what you focus on create your reality.

This UV beam thus can be a dangerous tool. For if you are focused on thoughts which are negative to your liking they will manifest into your reality almost instantly. Then again this UV beam can be a gift if you choose it to be.

Mission-1017 requires approximately one million people to focus on positive, benign, good willed thoughts for themselves and the Earth and Humanity on this day. Your thoughts can be of any nature of your choosing, but remember whatever you focus on will be made manifest in a relatively faster than anticipated time frame. To some the occurrences may almost be bordering on the miracle.

All we ask is positive thoughts of love, prosperity, healing, wealth, kindness, gratitude be focused on.

This UV beam comes into full affect for 17hrs on the 17th of October 2006.

No matter what time zone you are in the hours are approximately 10:17am on the 17th of October to 1:17am on the 18th of October.

The peak time will be 17:10 (5:10pm) on the 17th October.

You do not need to be in a meditative state through out this time, though that would be beneficial. The main key time no matter what time zone you are in will be the peak time of 17:10 (5:10 pm). Perhaps at this time if you can find a peaceful spot or location to focus. The optimum is out in the vicinity of grounded nature, likened to that of a large tree or next to the ocean waves.

Focus on whatever it is you desire. What is required for the benefit of all Earth and HUmanity is positive thoughts of loving nature.


We call this UV beam trigger event, "818" gateway.

Please forward this message to as many people as you know who will use this cosmic trigger event to focus positive, good willed thoughts.

We require approximately 1-million people across globe to actively participate in this event. Please use whatever communication mediums you have at your disposal. Reach out to as many people as possible. We require 1-million plus people at the least to trigger a shift for humanity from separation
and fragmentation to one of unification and oneness.

This is your opportunity to take back what is rightfully yours i.e. Peace and Prosperity for all Earth and Mankind.

Mission1017
Raphiem/Blue "

10/08/2006 08:18:00 AM  
Anonymous Avicenna / Ibn Sina said...

.

Dear Guy,

When you write “now isn't that only possible with faith? faith that the supernatural powers (aka God) will bring it to fruition or manifest it in ITS own way?” you leave me wondering, with a number of questions:

What do you mean by “supernatural powers” in the plural? This seems like a kind of grab-bag that could include almost anything.

I guess the problem for me comes when you link this “supernatural” plurality and “aka God”. This partnering of “supernatural powers” with God, linking something lower with the Most High, is quite problematic. One might say that God is all power, as in Almighty, but “supernatural?” No. If I may be so bold. This sounds like you’re appealing to some kind of demiurge. Invoking that sort of idea or imagery cuts right to the problem with this whole concept, with its Luciferian, occult, demonic, and/or magical subtext and overtones.

If one starts with tawhid [(sort of pronounced) toe-HEED], which is the understanding that God is one, with nothing above, below, or beside God, and that that One contains all ~ all good, all bad, and all indifferent, the hidden, the manifest, all aspects, et cetera, AND the essence which to us is unknowable, then, of course, even evil is a creation of God. But as the muslim logos reads in al Qur’an, “God created evil, but woe to him through whom evil comes.”

What is the point of this visualization exercise anyway? It’s like a fat kid sitting in front of the t.v. wishing for a candy bar, who is too lazy to get up and go get one from the fridge or whatever. Or maybe he doesn’t have the dollar to buy it, but he doesn’t want to work for it, either. He has enough of a conscience not to want to steal it, but if some unknown, unseen power, probably nothing you’d want hanging around you for very long, happens to dump one in his lap, he’ll gobble it up. What is the difference between this and Reverend Ike, or chanting for what you want? It’s morally corrupt and corrupting, my friend. If you can’t see that as self-evident, then I’m at a loss to make it much clearer to you. This is how I understand it.

It has nothing whatsoever to do with any “protestant” work ethic, either. It’s about trying to subvert God’s will with our own, which is a deadly dangerous, spiritually bankrupt thing to do. It is the way to total perdition, without sounding too dramatic. I’m quite serious. Yoga, union, comes with surrender of the will, our will, to that which is. Not by imposing one’s little mind onto the divine. This is an inversion. And inversion is at the core of luciferian dogma and action.

Besides, there has been an ongoing example of your “experiment” in progress constantly, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, for the past 1400 years. It is called the Salaat, the muslim five times daily prayer. Every day, five times a day, a significant portion of the world’s One and a Half BILLION Muslims kneels down, and then prostrates themselves in a series of relatively fixed recitations of prayers and movements, with some room for individual supplementation and augmentation. This massive prayer is always present, and moves around the circumference of the earth in constant waves every day, as it has done so for the past fourteen centuries.

So, hey, here’s your chance to pray for peace, for health, for the survival of life, and may so be in accordance with God’s will, insha’a Llah.

As far as Sounder’s comment on greeting muslims with the phrase “La ilaha illa Llah,” I don’t wonder they might be surprised. [By the way, how do you know they are muslim, unless it's a woman in a headscarf?] Any muslim (which means one who has surrendered to God’s will) certainly should, and most likely would, be pleased to hear such an expression of heartfelt faith.

Now, while they might respond with a prayer of their own, the standard greeting between muslims the world over is “As-salaamu alaykoum.” This translates as “Peace be with you,” to which the prescribed response is “Wa alaykoum salaam,” which means “And with you peace.” This greeting is actually specified in the Qur’an, and it is universally used by muslim people of faith throughout the entire world, regardless of their native language. Some hard-hearted muslims who are misguided “fundamentalists” may not respond in kind if they believe the person offering the greeting not to be a muslim. But this is atypical, and generally frowned upon as rude, at best. In fact, it is un-muslim.

10/08/2006 08:27:00 AM  
Anonymous Avicenna / Ibn Sina said...

The lighter side of Islam:

This is the midpoint of the month of Ramadan, the month when observant muslims fast from food, water, cigarettes, and sex from sunrise until sunset. It also contains the night of Laylat al Qadr, when Muhammad travelled from Makka via Jerusalem to the celestial realms, and brought back the prescription for the Salaat, the five times daily prayer.

A Hadith qudsi states that, as Muhammad was returning to the earthly sphere, he encountered Moses, who asked him what God had decreed for muslims.

[This is a true hadith. Even though it may sound like a set up for a joke, it is not.]

Muhammad informed Moses that God had decreed that Muslims should pray fifty times a day.

Moses: "What?! That's too much! People will never do that. Go back and get it reduced."

Muhammad was wary of approaching the Almighty in this manner but, eventually, with some cajoling, he followed Moses' advice.

After communing with God, in his descent, Muhammad encountered Moses again.

"How many?"

"Twenty."

"Too MUCH. Go back and get it reduced."

Again Muhammad did as Moses suggested. Again he met him on his way back to this world.

"How many now?"

"Ten."

"Still too much. You can get it down some more."

Finally, after pleading God down to five times a day, Muhammad brought the news back to Moses, who finally assented and let Muhammad pass unmolested.
________________________

As I stated, that is a genuine hadith. Even in the early seventh century, Moses was telling Muhammad he could get it for him wholesale.

I love this hadith because it shows the reverence in which the Hebrew prophets are held by muslims, AND it is just so lovely a human story, Moses getting Muhammad to ask the Almighty, to cut muslims some slack, over and over again until he was satisfied that the requirements were not too stringent that they couldn't be kept.

A true story, in the sense that I did not make it up to entertain you, unlike that blue moon October 17th nonsense above. UV indeed. Utter Vacuity.

10/08/2006 08:49:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Perspective:
http://www.mapsofwar.com/ind/imperial-history.html

10/08/2006 08:55:00 AM  
Anonymous Genghis Blues said...

Guess we gotta watch out for the latter day "mongol hordes", eh?

Whoever they may actually be...

10/08/2006 09:23:00 AM  
Anonymous Ibn Sina said...

.

One last thought, and then I'll shut up.

Jahn et alia probably attribute backward causality in time as the explanation for those experimental results cited above because this backward temporal causation is actually predicted by quantum mechanics with the collapse of the wave function and superposition.

Here's an alternative take: The skewed random number results AND the later attempt to "influence" these (unknown to the subjects) results by the experimental subjects are themselves BOTH manifestations of the Hidden, of the Cause of Causes.

This is different from Jung's synchronicity, which he described as "an acausal connecting principle", kind of like paired electron spin at a distance.

Net net, all of that gets you a nuclear powered aircraft carrier, bristling with every kind of weapon, zooming toward the Persian Gulf, with the sailors spelling out E=MC2 on the flight deck...an allusion to nuking Iran?

A nuclear war, now there's something to pray against.

10/08/2006 09:48:00 AM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

Much fruitful discussion this has brought; I, for one, am very gratified. Avicenna, you write beautifully on the subject, but I think there might be some room to argue the viability of the Be-In. First off, I do acknowledge the dangers involved with any mass activity--the fact that the Existing World Order already does this, to ill effect, with every "commercial" broadcast that reinforces that aberrant order. I did try to point out somewhere in that post that I was also working on something much more concrete with my tomorrow today project, which is an attempt to showcase how different things could be right here and now, with existing technologies and resources, if only these alternatives were known. It seems rather obvious to me that this death-spiral that we call the crisis of modern existence is sustained by a great many illusions and deceptions; all that's really necessary for change to occur is having this tawdry curtain pulled aside to reveal what else is possible.

Now I know that this sounds like the Veil of Maya, but this sort of realization is far more pedestrian and down to earth. Here's an example. In the habitat & environment page of tomorrow today, you'll find this quote:


The most immediate impact of contemporary architecture is that it pollutes the environment. Consider this definition of sustainability in architecture from the Royal Institute of British Architects: "Sustainable design is a broad concept which aims to reduce the adverse effect of human activities on our world. Architecture is responsible for about 45% of the carbon dioxide (greenhouse gas) emissions in the UK.Architects are a large part of the problem, and consequently the solution - sustainable architecture."

And then, a little further along the as yet unfinished page, you find this alternative:

There's an entire industry that has grown in response to the demand for alternatives to the box housing that contributes to the ongoing environmental degradation of the planet and the isolation and stratification of human society. A very unusual company called Biotecture travels around the world building truly sustainable homes (completely off the grid--no electricity, water, or sewage infrastructure needed, built from recycled and indigenous materials) and training teams of builders to build homes and train more builders. The short earthship movie "(11 min.) is a fascinating statement in it's own right.


The point that this example was intended to illustrate was that the problems are not necessarily what we've been led to believe and the solutions are even more unexpected, in that we've been told in so many different ways that there's nothing we can do to stop our long lemming leap off the cliff, that it's too expensive, or controversial, etc, etc. Lies, lies, lies. This is the sort of "enlightenment" I'm promoting, in the short term. It is very global/local. In researching for the web project, however, I've found that the information is out there, but it's fractal, scattered, and difficult to collate. The Consciousness Be-In is, in part, an attempt to draw together some of this information into a brief collage, an image capsule for an immediate, hands-on enlightenment of the smaller variety.

There are other purposes to the experiment as well, and it's these that have scared most folks off because they sound like "magic" (with or without the k). Nothing could be further from my intent. Look, if you believe, as I do, that consciousness does create reality, or at least that there is no reality apart from consciousness, then what we're tapping into is only something that's already being used and abused, knowingly and otherwise. Yes, if this were only a media event, it could certainly be corrupted by G.E. and the other owners, but this is where the "simulcast" diverges from the Beatles model. The event is not the show--it's (at least in terms of its focus) far more like the cosmic trigger event (whatever that really entails), in that it's primarily happening outside the approved channels. What I had in mind was using the internet (and, for areas and people without that access, television and radio) to broadcast a short piece which would not be edited, perverted or in any way compromised by the ubiquitous PTB. They might try to do this, but any simple techniques like sublimal image splicing, etc, would be detectable, if not altogether preventable.

Again, I'm not suggesting that we act like selfish New Agers and wish for something for ourselves. What I'd like to see is a demonstration of what can happen when we focus our minds together in a healthy way, not the way we do when we rip virtual flesh with our mind-teeth watching Survivor or slasher movies or some such crap. It does sound magical, when we think about causing something to materialize out of thin air, for example, but this gets back to the mind again anyway, as in Clarke's Law: Any sufficiently developed technology is indistinguishable from magic. It's in our perception of reality and how it "works" that the magic occurs. They've already got us afraid of our shadows--why should we really be afraid of our minds and the wonders they contain?

10/08/2006 09:50:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Don't forget the Washington DC crime experiment of 1993. anyone who has seen the film What the Bleep do We Know will recall:

http://www.whatthebleep.com/dcstudy/

10/08/2006 11:13:00 AM  
Anonymous Oarwell said...

Who is Ken Olbermann? Did he really say this about Bush Imperator? Did he really say that Cheney is a 'Contagion of Fear?'

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/10/05/olbermanns-special-comment-it-is-not-the-democrats-whose-inaction-in-the-face-of-the-enemy-you-fear

"It defies belief that this president and his administration could continue to find new, unexplored political gutters into which they to wallow."

(!)

10/08/2006 12:26:00 PM  
Anonymous Shrubageddon said...

I saw The Ninth Gate last night, and I have to say....it was terrible!!

What the hell was Roman Polanski thinking?

Was it meant ot be a joke?

I can't believe this is the same director who directed the award winning movie The Pianist.

It can't hold a candle to Eyes Wide Shut.....and anyone who thinks otherwise has no sense of cinematic quality, whatsoever.

10/08/2006 01:13:00 PM  
Blogger JBD said...

Cuttlefish,

Most of the participants in the truly awful What The Bleep Do We Know? are associated with Ramtha's School of Enlightenment, for which the film recruits. Exceptions include David Albert from Columbia, who was outraged at the way his words were twisted by the film-makers, who are also Ramtha followers. Exceptions do not include Goswami, who has lectured at Ramtha's SOE and toured with JZ Knight and crew. http://www.ramtha.com/html/media/press-rels/97.stm
I do not mean to write that Gowami's association with Ramtha undermines the merits of his theories. Rather, if he is associated in the public's mind with Ramtha, it seems less an effort by TPTB to discredit him and more an effort by Ramtha to capitalize on the sympathetic theories of an accredited fellow-traveler, which latter effort Goswami does not deem objectionable.

10/08/2006 02:48:00 PM  
Anonymous starroute said...

IC/Avicenna -

Lot's of good stuff to think about in your dialogue.

Panentheism is a clunky but useful word to refer to pantheism plus transcendence. And "Via Negativa" is the standard terminology for the tradition of philosophical paradoxes and impossibilities which lead the mind in an orbit around that ultimate transcendence without ever attempting to touch it directly.

As I think I've said here before, it's the ancient image of a sphere lighted from within by a candle, so that its entire surface is equally illuminated. And then you take the candle away, but the sphere continues to be lit. That there-but-not-there source of illumination is the Void.

But in the West, these traditions have had to fly under the radar, remaining perpertually on the edge of outright heresy, if not over it. It's that Western love for misplaced concreteness that has almost entirely devalued the word "God" as an identifier for transcendence.

However, what struck me most strongly was Avicenna/Ibn Sina saying, "Make each breath, each thought, each word, each deed an act of radical love, of manifest peace, of devotion to the divine that is embodied by each one of us. If each of us does that, the world indeed will change. Indeed, it will already have changed."

To which I would add that, even at this very moment, the world already *has* changed, as demonstrated by the very fact of our being able to talk about it. It's simply that the change is not yet manifest.

You might call the altered state of things a quantum possibility that hasn't yet collapsed into actuality. By "perceiving" it, we bring it closer to existence. By acting upon it, we bring it closer yet.

Or call it reverse causality, with the best of possible futures calling to us out of love to join them, and us staining to hear them with our own ears attuned by love to catch their message.

Causality does work both ways, after all. As Mullah Nasruddin says, "I am here because of you and you are here because of me."

10/08/2006 03:09:00 PM  
Anonymous Avicenna / Ibn Sin said...

.

Dear IC and Starroute,

Thank you for reading and considering what I wrote. I find myself in substantial agreement with both of your recent posts. There is certainly no question that sustainable architecture/ power sourcing/ water is possible in the here and now. Has been since the advent of the first hunter gatherers. And many intelligent people in the present day have expanded upon these ways of harmonizing with nature by utilizing currently available techonologies, many of which are even applicable in an urban setting.

It is a damnable lie that the earth "can't sustain" its current population. It's the greed and waste of the richest and most powerful, and the utterly wasteful lifestyles and technologies foisted on us all for obscene levels of profit, instead of just a decent, fair level of mutually profitable exchange, that is truly at the core of the problem. And of course it is this unbridled lust of accumulation of unnecessary levels of wealth and power that drives most war and human misery.

I will take the time to check out your website and the film(s), et cetera. But I've got to tend to some livestock, kids, and work. It's all good.

Now that you make your idea more clear, I do see that it MIGHT be possible to have a mass media event that could be helpful. But the content, if it is truly revolutionary, would certainly attract powerful censor/ saboteurs. This is not to say that it isn't worth trying.

On the idea of making a better "future" become our "present" and on the necessity of the principle of mutuality that nature seems to love, I would like to requote your very lovely words (sorrym, I don't know how to do italics here):

To which I would add that, even at this very moment, the world already *has* changed, as demonstrated by the very fact of our being able to talk about it. It's simply that the change is not yet manifest.

You might call the altered state of things a quantum possibility that hasn't yet collapsed into actuality. By "perceiving" it, we bring it closer to existence. By acting upon it, we bring it closer yet.

Or call it reverse causality, with the best of possible futures calling to us out of love to join them, and us staining to hear them with our own ears attuned by love to catch their message.

Causality does work both ways, after all. As Mullah Nasruddin says, "I am here because of you and you are here because of me."

10/08/2006 03:59:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

JBD,
You're right about what happened with that movie--Goswami did lend his name to those charlatans, for whatever unfathomable reasons--it was the others who felt betrayed by the New Agers. I seem to recall someone even threatening litigation if his "role" wasn't redacted (David Chalmers?) The reason I posted that interview with Goswami is that it still glows, despite what the bleep happened. I'm not entirely convinced that some agent of the elite didn't have something to do with how that all went down, however. But that's to be expected, isn't it?

Starroute & Avicenna,
You're both lit up as well. We are manifesting the change, one neural pathway at a time. Very, very heartening, especially amid all the doom and gloom. I can't help but wonder if the Consciousness Project might not accelerate the change even more. The critical mass that the Singularity crowd and the Hundredth Monkey tribe talk about can happen in one venue as well as another...now to get Bill Gates on board--anybody got a phone number?

10/08/2006 05:31:00 PM  
Anonymous An Ueshiban said...

Jim Stockdale was the highest-ranking US military officer in the "Hanoi Hilton" prisoner-of-war camp during the Vietnam War. He shouldered the burden of command, doing everything be could to create conditions that would increase the number of prisoners who would survive unbroken while fighting an internal war against his captors. He deliberately disfigured himself so that he could not be videotaped as an example of a well-treated prisoner. He exchanged secret intelligence information with his wife through letters, knowing that discovery would mean more torture and perhaps death. (His story is told in a book written by he and his wife called "In Love and War".) He instituted rules that would help his fellow prisoners deal more effectively with torture. He instituted an elaborate secret internal communications system to reduce the sense of isolation imposed by their captors. Personally tortured over twenty times during his 8-year imprisonment, he lived out the war with no prisoner's rights, no set release date, and no certainty as to whether he would ever survive to see his family again. When asked years after his release how he dealt with this uncertainty, he said "I never lost faith in the end of the story. I never doubted that not only would I get out, but also that I would prevail in the end and turn the experience into the defining event of my life." He went on to explain that it was the optimists who never made it out, the ones who said "Oh, we'll be out by Christmas", and then Christmas would come and go, and then Easter too, and Thanksgiving. They died of a broken heart."

The lesson, he explained, was this:

You must retain faith that you will prevail in the end, whatever the difficulties.., and, at the same time, you must also confront the brutal facts of your current reality and act on their implications.

from the Jim Collins book "Good to Great"

10/08/2006 06:55:00 PM  
Anonymous Shrubageddon said...

It is a damnable lie that the earth "can't sustain" its current population.

But it's not a damnable lie that people aren't hard-wired to crawl all over each other like cock roaches in search of their next scrap or morsel.

10/08/2006 07:19:00 PM  
Anonymous Oarwell said...

Hey, Humanity Wins, had a chance to ponder CBS's new show 'Jericho,' which sounds like a cross between 'Alas Babylon' and 'Lost?'

A rather creepy subtext:

MAKING NUCLEAR WAR THINKABLE

(shot of American boy watching a mushroom cloud in the distance)

What's wrong with this picture? To begin with, if it weren't a Hollywood special effects shot, the guy would probably be blind from looking right at the exploding nuke -- he clearly didn't duck and cover. Also, the whole detached observer quality of the photo subliminally says nuclear catastrophe is no big deal, something that can safely be survived at a distance. The biblical name and hint of a halo even hint at something transcendent.

In other words, CBS is helping make the use of nukes a little more thinkable.

I wonder how this thing ever got off the ground. Maybe it went something like this:
You guys have been in the doghouse for a couple years now, ever since the Janet Jackson costume malfunction and the Dan Rather mess. Getting Katie for the news was a start, but you need to do more. Here's a thought. How about a "high-concept" TV soap featuring a plucky red state small town with a biblical name surviving nuclear catastrophe while those sinners in the big cities apparently burn in hellfire and disappear? How cool is that?
CBS seemed to buy it. They signed for at least 13 episodes, and the new series "Jericho" will air weekly, starting this Wednesday.
A drama about what happens when a nuclear mushroom cloud suddenly appears on the horizon, plunging the residents of a small, peaceful Kansas town into chaos, leaving them completely isolated and wondering if they're the only Americans left alive. Fear of the unknown propels Jericho into social, psychological and physical mayhem when all communication and power is shut down. The town starts to come apart at the seams as terror, anger and confusion bring out the very worst in some residents. But in this time of crisis, as sensible people become paranoid, personal agendas take over and well-kept secrets threaten to be revealed, some people will find an inner strength they never knew they had and the most unlikely heroes will emerge.
Again, what's wrong with this picture?

More than 20 years ago, in the early years of the Reagan administration, loose talk about "survivable nuclear war" created a huge outcry, here and abroad. ABC produced a TV movie called "The Day After." While operating within the constraints of network TV, the show tried to communicate some of the true horror of a nuclear war. The Reaganites learned their lesson and shut up.

Now, little more than two decades later, CBS is about to show nuclear war as something that happens elsewhere, off-camera except for a mushroom cloud or two on the horizon, nothing that can't be survived by good people learning to work together in a small town far from Ground Zero. Yeah, right.

Call me a cynic, but I don't think it's any accident that this show is airing at the very time that the Bush administration is trying, through a disingenuous combination of leaks, diplomatic initiatives and gradually escalating threats, to build support for a preemptive strike -- possibly with nuclear "bunker busters" -- against Iran. And while they insist they haven't made up their minds to go to war yet, chances are -- based on past performance -- they've already made their decision. It's not a matter of "if," but "when" -- and how to sell it.

The neocon strategists know they don't have a snowball's chance in hell of selling another preemptive war to the public through rational argument. What they can do, without ever discussing the real issues, is make emotional appeals to their base, get them worked up, and then use them to bludgeon political opponents of preemptive war.

Who knows? "Jericho" might do the job. On the one hand, it stirs anxiety about nuclear war, and thus builds support for a "preventive war" against Iran. On the other hand, showing nuclear war safely going on in the background while people are fine and going about their lives in the foreground helps desensitize the audience to the horror of nuclear weapons and makes nuclear war less unthinkable. It helps erode taboos about a U.S. nuclear first strike -- should that become necessary to get rid of those underground labs in Iran.

It just might work."

from the blog 'Letter From Here.'

10/08/2006 09:18:00 PM  
Anonymous Richard said...

The Ninth Gate, Shrub?

Ewwwwwwwwwwwww!

Now that's cheesy.

I remember sitting through that piece of shit film thinking, "Boy, this is a piece of shit."

But then, like an idiot, I thought, "But it's Polanski....it...it has to get better."

Never did though.

10/09/2006 12:05:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It will never (let it) be over

10/09/2006 12:20:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

...and the painted ponies go up and down..

balticboy

10/09/2006 01:46:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To the "Stone Man" above ,yes someone did read your post. :-)

For others, if you mind is yet to be warped enough from "accepted history" by that Stone worship post, read this which might be loosely called, after I read back over it:

THE OCCULT MEDITERRANEAN EGYPTIAN EMPIRE hidden in plain sight

Addressed to the original poster there, providing some interesting quote and some of my further comments.

1.

First, who wrote all that and where is the rest?

2.

"According to Edward Rice [7] Al'Uzza was especially worshipped at the Ka'bah where she was served by seven priestesses. Her worshippers circled the holy stone seven times - once for each of the ancient seven planets - and did so in total nudity. Near the Ka'bah is the ever-flowing well, Zamzam, which cools the throats of the countless millions of pilgrims.

2b. I'm surprised you failed to mention that the Kabba/Ka'bah/Qabba is ten Egyptian sacred longitudes from the Egyptian center line, EXACTLY. Fits with your Isis bit.

2c. I'm suprised that you failed to mention the Greek omthalos, or that Delphi and another Greek site I forget were 6 and 7 of the same discrete latitudes from the 'top' of Egypt. Both 2a and 2b in the book by Thompkins/Stecchini, Secrets of the Great Pyramid (early 1970s).

2d. The Greeks narrated that two doves flew from the temple of Amon in Egypt in order to establish the oracles of Dodana and Delphi. Why? In such ancient literature and iconography ("as the crow/dove flies") the symbol of the flight of two doves is the standard symbol for the stretching of meridians and parallels.

From Stecchini:

"Because the oracle of Delphi was less isolated, it received more attention and consequenty was the geodetic center of Greece. The god of Delphi, Apollo, whose name means "the stone," was identified with an object, the omphalos, "navel," which has been found. It consisted of an oviodal stone (the oviodal shape indiciated the lengthening of the degrees of the latitude as one moves north) covered by a net" (i.e., a grid of plots across the earth)...The omphalos of Delphi was similar to the object which represented the god Amon in Thebes, the "navel" of Egypt. ...[H]istorical accounts, myths, and legends, and some monuments of Delphi, indicate that the oracle was established there by the Pharohs of the Ethiopian Dynasty. This is the reason why the Greek portrayed Delphos, the eponymous hero of Delphi, as a Negro."

"The relevance of the latitidue in the location of Delphi is indicated by a number of Greek accounts which associate Delphi with Sardis, the capital of the kingdom of Lydia in Asia Minor, which is on the same parallel (38 degrees, 28 minutes)...

...

[Another discrete number of "longitude Aegyptus" off the Egyptian center line is the city of Persepolis. Persepolis (Old Persian: 'Parse', New Persian: تخت جمشید, 'Takht-e Jamshid') was an ancient ceremonial capital of the second Iranian dynasty, the Achaemenid Empire, "the founding dynasty and self-liberator in what is generally the entity which comes to mind when thinking of the ancient Persian Empire—-the empire which threw off the yoke as a tribuary state of the Medes (founders of the first empires in greater Persia/Iran), the empire which humbled and ruled Egypt, which twice threatened to conquer all the the ancient Greeks, and which in turn fell to Alexander the Great..[whose names figure later below... And The first legendendary king of Egypt was Medes, I believe as well. — "in its time an comparative superpower with high cultural and economical achievements during its lengthy time ruling over a vast region ten times the size of modern Germany from its picturesque capital at Persepolis.

At the height of their power, around 500 BC, the Achaemenid rulers of Persia ruled over territories roughly encompassing today's Iran, Iraq, Armenia, Afghanistan, Turkey, Bulgaria, eastern parts of Greece, Egypt, Syria, much of what is now Pakistan, Jordan, Israel, Palestine, Lebanon, Caucasia, Central Asia, Libya, and northern parts of Arabia. The empire ruled by Persia eventually became the largest empire of the ancient [Mediterranean/Levant/Babylonian Egyptian] world." At different times, the Achaemenids also ruled Egypt, although the Egyptians twice regained their independence from Persia. After the practice of Manetho, Egyptian historians refer to the period in Egypt when the Achaemenid dynasty ruled as the Twenty-Seventh (525 BC - 404 BC) and Thirty-First Dynasties (343- 332 BC).

The last Achaemenid king was Darius III (336 BC - 330 BC), who was defeated by Alexander the Great, king of Macedon. After the Macedonian conquest, the Persian Empire was annexed by Alexander. ONLY CHANGING FAMILY OVERSIGHT....? READ THE BELOW ABOUT ALEXANDER...]

Back to Stecchini:

"The latitudes of Dodana and Delphi are significant. The length of the degree of latutude at the parallels of these two oracular centers gave the length of the minute or second of sideral time, that is, the distance covered by a point at the equator in a sideral minute or second of rotation of the earth. Dodana is at 38 deg 3 min north. According to the Smithsonian Geographical Tables a degree at this parallel os 111,014.0 meters. This means taht the degree must have been calculated as 360,673 geographic feet (360,000 plus 1/535) = 111,013.6 meters. If we multiply this length by 1.00273785, we obtain 361,660 geographic feet, the length of the degree of latitude at parallel 55 deg 06 min, which is EQUAL to the length of a degree of longitude at the equator....

p. 349-50

Thus long before the Greeks and long before the Arabians, and the Persians, the area from Grece, to Asia Minor, to Persia, to Arabia was geodetically mapped out by the Egyptians and fellow Egyptian linked fellow travellers--and they likely set up these additional areas. Persepolis was indeed mapped out by "hired" Egyptians.

2c. Makes sense of Bernal's Black Athena book as well.

2d. Would fit with the interesting "Eastern European pyramid" that was supposedly found and being excavated as we speak, eh?

2e. As well as the mother of Alexander being connected with this oracle in Greece, and then Alex takes Egypt "back"...


3.

In an oasis of always-flowing water, the Black Stone in its mount became an unmatched image of the goddess as giver of life....
When Mohammed wanted to surplant Al'Lut with Allah, this was the one Temple he must conquer.


Can you cite more than this to back up these statements?


4.

Camphausen suggests that the holy Koran (qur'an in Arabic) is the 'Word of Qure'. Even moslems admit that the work existed before the time of Mohammed.

Which Muslims admit that? Cite?


5.

Legend said it was copied from a divine prototype that appeared in heaven at the beginning of time, or the Mother of the Book.

5a. The Great Pyramid is a geodetic encoder of planetary scale and other information, similarly.

5b. The Kabba is hardly a perfect cube, and may have other geodetic information encoded: do you know of anyone who has analyzed the Kabba from the point of view of geodetic information, similarly?

5c. Akkad/Egptians connect, who colonized whom? The Egyptians failed to call their country "Egypt". That was the Greek name for the area ["Aegyptus"]. Stecchini reports:

"The present arabic name of Egypt is al Misri, which is the equivalent of the biblical Misraim. [A major interesting parapolitical secret society of the 1700s-1800s was called "Memphis and Misraim".] This name is derived from the Semitic root which in Akkadian gives the verb asaru, "to cut, to delimit, to deliniate," and the noun esteru, "drawing plan, representation", applied in particular to the specifications for the construction of a building. In Semetic language an "m" before the root of a verb forms what we would call a past participle: Egypt is the country built according to a geometric plan."

"The Egyptians expressed this idea by calling their land To-Mera, "the land of the mr." The word 'mr' is used to refer to the pyramids, but more specifically it refers to the meridian triangle of a pyramid, whose hypotenuse is the apothem. [An apothem of a geometric figure is the perpendicular line segment, usually from the center, to an edge. The hypothenuse would be from that center point in the base of the pyramid, to the top. This makes:] The mr essentially is a right triangle with an angle of 36 deg and another angle which of necessity is 54 deg. Since the Egyptians did not have trigonometric tables, they used this 'mr' triangle to obtain the value of trigonometric functions. They conceived of this triangle as the basic building block of the cosmos [or for mapping out the cosmos thus on land below, as above, below).

"In the last century the Etyptologist Karl H. Brugsch noticed that the hieroglyphic sign for mr when used in the name To-Mera is accompanied by a determinative in the form of a fret or Greek key...."


etc. etc.

6.

"..that the Egyptians on the other hand called their [Arabian] land Al'Uzza, the mother aspect of Al'Lut, may give us the pre-dynastic Egyptian snake goddess Ua Zit, who develops into Isis.

What other possibily is there now that this is that the Kabba is just another 'marker' point of imporance on the globe to the Etyptians? One of many? How many of us know that the 33rd degree for the Scottish Rite Masonry HQ was chosen as Charleston, likely because it is so close to the direct parallel off which the Great Pyramid resides thousands of miles to the east?


7.

Professor Hawkins has argued that it [Kabba] is exceedingly accurately aligned on two heavenly phenomena. These are the cycles of the moon and the rising of Canopus, the brightest star after Sirius.

7a. The Egyptians are/were 'big' on Sirius and Canopus.

7b. The Great Pyramid is aligned to particular solar phenomena on the equinoxes or the solstices, I forget which--during which on one side as the sun sets at the horizon it completely blacks out in shadow down one face of the its middle on such special days showing that the walls are 'buckled' in which is only visible on one of the equinoxes, when half of one face is in shadow while the other half is in sun--on the same face...

7c. The Mayan/Aztec temple at Chichen-Itza on a solstice day has a similar 'split shadow' effect down the stairs rising from its base, which looks like the shadow of a snake--only on the solstice.

7d. Many churches in Europe continued to be built with towers oriented to the cardinal points, or to mark the solstices and equinoxes. Others were orinted to the sunrise of the saint for whom they were named in a co-opted fashion into the Catholic saint hierarchies.
St. Peter's Basilica in Rome is orinted due east so tht at the vernal equinox the great door can be thrown open at sunrise passing through the nave will illuminate the altar--only on this day.

7e. "Christian mitre" looking Etypitian priest king frameworks were found in King Tut's tomb, as well as fish plate looking gloves, once as well used by the "Catholic" church. The "Catholic" church might be called the archaeoastronomical sponge church of double meanings, since it has soaked up so much of the whole Mediterranean iconography of other religions and synthedized them together.


8.

In a thirteenth-century Arabic manuscript by Mohammed ibn Abi Bakr Al Farisi it is stated that the alignment is set up for the setting crescent moon - an ancient symbol of the virgin-goddess which still appears in the national flags of many islamic nations. In some flags - Algeria, Mauritania, Tunisia and Turkey - the crescent is accompanied by a star, perhaps representing Canopus.

Oh God....and I was so hoping to discover that it was only Europeans with a double meaning form of occult high politics...

A lot of these state flags came from equally secular nationalist revolutions, correct? Turkey was founded by the Sabbateans.

9.

The Egyptian city known as Canopus [i.e, supposedly the Egyptian Canopus worship at the Kabba alignment point; same goddess temple with holy sex],as the Greek historian Strabo (63BCE-21CE) considered the place to be notorious for wild sexual activities. Such references typically refer to temples where sacred 'prostitution' or ritual promiscuity were part of the worship;...

Where does it talk about the holy sex existing after the Muslim religion was started?

---------

If you would provide some more information on these points--or at least rewrite the original with more information included, I think it would be even better.

Thanks for the Stone Worship post...hope you see common Eyptian theme with additions of Egyptian parallel and meridian connections to Greece and Arabia and manny other points...

10/09/2006 02:13:00 AM  
Anonymous Anaxagoras said...

to the anonymous stone-hugger:

Your info just on Delphi alone is so off-base and inaccurate that I doubt everything else you have written.

Here are three accounts of the origins of the name for Delphi, none of them remotely like your fantasy.

1. There is no character, "negro" or otherwise, named delphos. This is totally bogus. I personally made a journey from Knossos on Crete to Delphi some years ago. All of the locals tell the same story. When the pythos, the water-snake oracle interpreted by an old woman, was moved from Knossos to Delphi, on the side of Mount Parnassus, high above the harbor of Corinth, the pythos was brought by Apollo who rode on the back of seven dolphins (Greek, delphinidae). Hence the name Delphi. That is the story told by people who live there.

another version:

2. For the ancient Greeks, Delphi was quite literally the center of the world. According to Greek myth, Zeus released two eagles from opposite ends of the earth and they met in the sky above Delphi. Impaling one another with their beaks, they fell to the ground on the very center of the world. The site was marked by the Omphalos, or "navel" stone, a Roman copy of which can be seen in the Delphi Museum.

According to legend, the serpent Python was the ancient guardian of Delphi's Castalian Spring before he was killed by Apollo. Python was the son of the Greek goddes Gaia, "Earth." And significantly, the name Delphi is related to δελφός (delphos), "womb." It is probable that an Earth Goddess was originally venerated at the site before Apollo arrived.

Excavations reveal that Delphi was first inhabited in late Mycenaean times (as early as the 15th century BC), and that priests from Knossos on Crete brought the cult of Apollo to Delphi in the 8th century BC.

According to Homer, Apollo himself founded the oracle of Delphi, saying:

In this place I am minded to build a glorious temple to be an oracle for men, and here they will always bring perfect hecatombs, both they who dwell in Peloponnesus and the men of Europe and from all the wave-washed isles, coming to question me. And I will deliver to them all counsel that cannot fail, answering them in my rich temple. (Hymn to Pythian Apollo, 285-295)
Regarded as the center of the world and the dwelling place of Apollo, Delphi attracted pilgrims from across the ancient world. Generals, kings, and individuals of all ranks came to the Oracle of Delphi to ask Apollo's advice on the best course to take in war, politics, love and family. After the inquirer made a sacrifice, a woman known as the Pythia uttered cryptic pronouncements which were then translated by a priest (see "The Oracle," below, for more information).

The Temple of Apollo seen today at Delphi dates from the 4th century BC. There were two earlier temples on the site: the first was burned in 548 and the second was destroyed by an earthquake. Some archaic capitals and wall blocks are preserved from the first temple and many of wall blocks and some pediment sculptures are extant from the second.

The Pythian Games held at Delphi were one of four Panhellenic games held in ancient Greece, and they attracted competitors from all over the Greek world. Founded in the 6th century BC and held in honor of Apollo, they originally centered around the talents the god exemplified - music and poetry. But soon, athletic competitions were added as well. The best known was a great chariot race, held in the stadium that can still be seen at Delphi. The winners of the Pythian Games received a laurel wreath from the city of Tempe in Thessaly, where Apollo was said to have picked a laurel on his way to Delphi.

The 6th century BC saw the political rise of Delphi and the reorganization of the Pythian Games, ushering in a golden age that lasted until the arrival of the Romans in 191 BC. Numerous treasuries were built in the Sanctuary of Apollo to house votive offerings of grateful pilgrims. In the 4th century BC, a theater accommodating 5,000 spectators was constructed nearby. It was restored in 159 by the Pergamene king Eumenes II and later by the Romans.

The oracle of Delphi was abolished in 393 AD by Emperor Theodosius, who made Christianity the official religion of the Byzantine Empire.

And here's one from a 19th century British historian:

3. E. Cobham Brewer 1810–1897. Dictionary of Phrase and Fable. 1898.

Delphi or Delphos.

A town of Pho’cis, famous for a temple of Apollo and for an oracle celebrated in every age and country. So called from its twin peaks, which the Greeks called brothers (adelphoi).

This last one I think is almost as bogus as anonymous stone-hugger's.

10/09/2006 03:18:00 AM  
Anonymous Shrubageddon said...

Richard said...
The Ninth Gate, Shrub?

Ewwwwwwwwwwwww!

Now that's cheesy.



I hear ya. The only way it could have been cheesier, is if they decided to film it in Wisconsin....which, thankfully, they didn't.

How about the chick flying/floating in Peter Pan fashion?

The whole movie left me scratching my head....and I still am...as though I have lice.

10/09/2006 09:03:00 AM  
Anonymous Shrubageddon said...

Richard,

I forgot to ask you. Are you looking forward to this culminating Vizualization Exercise? What are you going to visualize?

10/09/2006 09:06:00 AM  
Blogger jules said...

oarwell

Jericho has been on in Australia for the last couple of weeks.

I watched the first episode wondering what it would be about/like.

Don't bother anymore.

The christians are gonna be sorry.

David Tench and Ronnie Johns are on after it.

They are funny ish. Well Ronnie James is.

What was interesting, especially if I put my Hugh manitee glasses on is the way it was advertised.

It was a news flash featuring local Aussie newsreaders reading stuff, Israel this suicide bomber that then North Korean Nuclear Tests, then reports of NK launching missiles, the the screen goes to static and the shows name appears, and the by line was What if the unthinkable happened.

But for the first month or two it stopped with the screen going to static and then "Jericho" appearing over the static.

The first time I saw it it was a little disconcerting, cos I wasn't watching just heard it in the background, till the next add started I was thinking WTF.

That could just be me tho.

On the morning of sept 12, about mid arvo in NY sept 11th, I turned on the telly oblivious to what had happened the previous night (Our time). And the coverrage was in full swing. It was six forty in the morning, the missus had left for work 10 minutes earlier, and I was waiting for a ride at 7.

I took the day off cos the spin out factor was quite high.

The jericho ad campaign pushed all the button that s11 had installed on my OS.

Could just be clever marketing, but when you see it thru those HMW glasses, sometimes you can start feeling like Rowdy Roddy Piper trying on a new pair of sunnies.

Anyway since The Guy Next Door's rather neat idea seems to have been buried under a few pages of stuff, i was thinking about visualising a sense of relief... and also perhaps a simple thing.

Bush on trial for crimes against humanity.

Courtrooms look pretty similar, and so do the interchangeable suits that inhabit them.

Simple image, easy to keep in the mind and focus on the details, do it properly and the details will suddenly appear in reality. Thats how the keyboard you use came about.

There's two sorts of visualisation, the sort that works and the sort that doesn't.

The one that works ... well you can tell its working when it feels like making pottery.

Get well soon Jeff.

10/09/2006 09:31:00 AM  
Anonymous Richard said...

"How about the chick flying/floating in Peter Pan fashion? "

It has been a few years since I annoyed myself with that film, but, if I remember correctly, that scene was about the point I seriously started wondering, "What the fuck was Polanski thinking?"

Have you been able to see any relation whatsoever to Eyes Wide Shut?

Have you ever seen the Korean film, Oldboy? It is an existensial sledgehammer of a revenge story that I highly recommend.

As far as visualization goes...well, there's this 25 year old hottie at work who I've been 'visualizing' naked for a while now, so I think I'll just stick with that. It may not bring world peace or hosanna on high but it makes me smile.

On second thought, it kind of fits in with starroutes "world piece" though, don't ya think?

10/09/2006 10:01:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Ninth gate

The girl is able to levitate(float)down stairs. This indicates she has magic/demonic powers.

The girl is a changling in the airport scene changing to a little girl.This shows she is more than just a girl.

She can appear or vanish at will.
She knows of events and predicts future.



Gives him last clue to find enlightenment.

How does she know?

The whore of revelation?
As per the bible.

Or Astaroth queen of heaven?

It is her face in the last plate.
It is her riding the beast in the correct last plate found by the brothers.
It actually falls to the floor to his feet.
She steals a red Masserati.
Probally some more i missed.


Is she a witch?
A demoness? Astaroth
The devil incarnate? Lucifer.
She is elusive in revealing her secrets.

She says you are wasting your time asking all of those questions.

I think like Hitchcock's Vertigo this film will be much more understood and appreciated in the future.

10/09/2006 10:25:00 AM  
Anonymous Richard said...

Anon 10:25:

Thanks for Ninth Gate Cliff Notes but the film still sucked it.

Sorry.

On the other hand, my older brother loves that film.

Which doesn't actually say much since the last film he recommended to me was the lovecraft knock off "Beyond the Walls of Sleep" that, coincidentally, also sucked it. The first 10 minutes look exactly like a typically unwatchable Trent Reznor NIN S&M whine-fest video. As a matter of fact, while watching "Beyond" I made up my own Trent lyrics to go with it.

"I'm rich and I'm depressed
& goth chicks love me,
but I'm in such pain
that their blow-jobs never help me.

I'm a self-obsessed little shit
who wears too much eye-liner
I look exactly like a grown man
but I'm just a baby & a whiner."

Opinions are funny things, eh?

10/09/2006 10:55:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nine gates and the Necronomicon

There are “nine gates” not the seven that we know of to be common knowledge of the chakras. Every other book I have read, skips two of the most important chakras- the 6th BEHIND the third eye and the pineal gland, which is not a chakra per se, but is a major part of the 6th chakra system.

The Necronomicon is thorough with instructions on how to open and empower them all.


As the illustration in the text used in the movie "The Nine Gates" warned, "Venture too far and danger can descend on you from up above" this is true to reality.


Read more about gates.......

The Seven gates of Inanna.

The Chaldeans also were able to open the gates.

10/09/2006 10:58:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Of course The Ninth Gate lacks the Hollywood sophistication and high tech effects.


It has a message regardless of the vehicle it had to ride in.

10/09/2006 11:05:00 AM  
Anonymous Richard said...

Roman's next flick could involve the 9 levels of bullshit he used to escape hard time. Or is it only right-wing pedos like Foley who are bad bad boys, while artistes like Polanski deserve acclaim & study instead of derision?

"LOS ANGELES, March 12, 1977 — Polish film director Roman Polanski, widower of murdered actress Sharon Tate, was free on bond today on charges of luring a 13-year-old girl to the home of Jack Nicholson under the pretext of photographing her, then drugging and raping her.

Polanski, 43, was arrested by police to Beverly Wilshire Hotel Friday night following the incident Thursday night at Nicholson's Bel Air home.

In addition to the rape charges, Polanski also was booked on suspicion of sodomy, child molestation and furnishing dangerous drugs to a minor. He was released on $2,500 bond pending his arraignment March 18.

Nicholson was reportedly out of town at the time. A spokesman for the district attorney's office told reporters that Polanski recently met the girl's mother and arranged for the girl to pose for some photographs for the French edition of Vogue magazine.

He said Polanski took some pictures at a first photographic session two weeks ago, and among these pictures was one of the girl nude from the waist up.

He said the mother became angry when she saw the picture and questioned her daughter when she returned home from the second photographic session Thursday night. Officers said the girl told her mother that Polanski had given her a tablet of the powerful tranquilizing drug Quaalude.

The director then raped the girl and forced her to commit various sex acts with him, police said.

Polanski made no public comment on his arrest. He surrendered peacefully when he was taken into custody at the hotel."

10/09/2006 11:16:00 AM  
Anonymous Richard said...

Roman's next flick could involve the 9 levels of bullshit he used to escape hard time. Or is it only right-wing pedos like Foley who are bad bad boys, while artistes like Polanski deserve acclaim & study instead of derision?

"LOS ANGELES, March 12, 1977 — Polish film director Roman Polanski, widower of murdered actress Sharon Tate, was free on bond today on charges of luring a 13-year-old girl to the home of Jack Nicholson under the pretext of photographing her, then drugging and raping her.

Polanski, 43, was arrested by police to Beverly Wilshire Hotel Friday night following the incident Thursday night at Nicholson's Bel Air home.

In addition to the rape charges, Polanski also was booked on suspicion of sodomy, child molestation and furnishing dangerous drugs to a minor. He was released on $2,500 bond pending his arraignment March 18.

Nicholson was reportedly out of town at the time. A spokesman for the district attorney's office told reporters that Polanski recently met the girl's mother and arranged for the girl to pose for some photographs for the French edition of Vogue magazine.

He said Polanski took some pictures at a first photographic session two weeks ago, and among these pictures was one of the girl nude from the waist up.

He said the mother became angry when she saw the picture and questioned her daughter when she returned home from the second photographic session Thursday night. Officers said the girl told her mother that Polanski had given her a tablet of the powerful tranquilizing drug Quaalude.

The director then raped the girl and forced her to commit various sex acts with him, police said.

Polanski made no public comment on his arrest. He surrendered peacefully when he was taken into custody at the hotel."

10/09/2006 11:17:00 AM  
Anonymous Shrubageddon said...

So long as Polanski's not gay....it's all good, Richard.

Cuz....we know only Homosexuals are preoccupied with sex...as Mr. Weyrich opines.

10/09/2006 11:25:00 AM  
Anonymous Shrubageddon said...

I think we may have found our answer, Richard, as to why Polanski did (no pun intended...okay, maybe it was) The Ninth Gate. The content of the movie was never relevant.....it's the title, and his name to it, that's relevant.

How many letters in Madman Jack's last name? You are correct, sir!! Nine. And, I'm sure you will agree that The Joker's Hollywood Homestead was most likely gated in 1977.....hence, we have the Ninth Gate.

The Ninth Gate is a clandestine message meant to imply that Child Sex is the key to enlightenment. Polanski is telling us that he used that girl for her Chi, and has thus transcended to new realms of consciousness.

10/09/2006 11:41:00 AM  
Anonymous Richard said...

I see your point Shrub. I suppose that calling the film 'The Hymen' would have been marketing suicide, eh?

10/09/2006 12:05:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here are three accounts of the origins of the name for Delphi, none of them remotely like your fantasy.

"The name?" Um. I didn't make an argument from entymology, so this is non-sequitur though let's humor you:

1. There is no character, "negro" or otherwise, named delphos. This is totally bogus. I personally made a journey from Knossos on Crete to Delphi some years ago. All of the locals tell the same story. When the pythos, the water-snake oracle interpreted by an old woman, was moved from Knossos to Delphi, on the side of Mount Parnassus, high above the harbor of Corinth, the pythos was brought by Apollo who rode on the back of seven dolphins (Greek, delphinidae). Hence the name Delphi. That is the story told by people who live there.

and Oh! "The people that [currently?] live there? What does that have to do with it? Americans currenty still tell people their country is a democracy as well! If you want me to absorb information from three uncited things you put, which I would like to, please tell me where you got this information? It's simply common courtesy. And 'I searched for it on the web' or this is a "neighbor down the road that made goat cheese there" is not going to cut it...though perhaps if you trust this source so much you will say why...

Besides, how is "critiqing entymology" germane when I never discussed it?

The only Delphi thing I put there was related to its stable connections to Etyptian latitudes north and the ancient Greeks themselves said it was Egyptian/Amon related:

"2c. I'm suprised that you failed to mention the Greek omthalos, or that Delphi and another Greek site I forget were 6 and 7 of the same discrete latitudes from the 'top' of Egypt. Both 2a and 2b in the book by Thompkins/Stecchini, Secrets of the Great Pyramid (early 1970s).

2d. The Greeks narrated that two doves flew from the temple of Amon in Egypt in order to establish the oracles of Dodana and Delphi. Why? In such ancient literature and iconography ("as the crow/dove flies") the symbol of the flight of two doves is the standard symbol for the stretching of meridians and parallels."

10/09/2006 12:08:00 PM  
Anonymous Shrubageddon said...

Richard said...
I see your point Shrub. I suppose that calling the film 'The Hymen' would have been marketing suicide, eh?


Ahh...but you see, he had that angle covered, as well. See, Polanski was good friends with Francis Ford Coppola, who, as we know, directed the Godfather Series. Al Pacino and Polanski convinced Lee Strasburg to play the part of Hyman Roth.....it took quite a bit of Arm-Twisting, but they prevailed.

These secret messages are hidden everywhere, if you just look hard enough, Richard. For example, there's a secret message encoded on the upper inner thigh of that young hotty you're visualizing at work. If you look closely enough, it's plainly obvious. ;-)

10/09/2006 12:28:00 PM  
Anonymous Richard said...

"For example, there's a secret message encoded on the upper inner thigh of that young hotty you're visualizing at work."

I've already found that one Shrub. it says, "Only in your dreams, old man."

10/09/2006 01:17:00 PM  
Anonymous kitsune said...

i've been hearing a lot about Gladio recently - from Tarpley, from this board, etc - and i just came across a great collection of videos which features three episodes of BBC TV on Gladio . . .

The Ring Masters
The Puppeteers
The Foot Soldiers

archive=the dossier uk

10/09/2006 01:36:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yes Qaaludes,
rorer 714
Lots of bootleg ludes after they stopped making the originals.
They came from columbia.
Back then mother ships loaded with weed would be out in the international waters.
Fast boats made pickup to shore.
This was cia approved or what.
The High times magazine founded in 74 by Thomas King Forcade.
The were a cash cow and mk on the masses it is now apparent.

10/09/2006 02:29:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

missing Y
why not?

10/09/2006 02:31:00 PM  
Anonymous Omphaloskeptic said...

to the anonymous stone-hugging moron,

I won't waste my time with someone who is too impaired even to remember what it is he cut and pasted.

By the way, if you are such a classical scholar, why can't you spell "omphalos?" It's with a ph, from the greek letter phi, not a th, as in theta. O, I get it, you're just a thetan, hah hah.

And a moron who can spell and doesn't know jack squat.

Bugger off, along with the phony pair of Richard/Shrub, another moron who keeps talking to himself about utterly irrelevant bullshit.

This site has gone to the dogs.

10/09/2006 02:38:00 PM  
Anonymous Shrubageddon said...

This site has gone to the dogs.

Rutt Row

10/09/2006 02:44:00 PM  
Anonymous Shrubageddon said...

By the way, if you are such a classical scholar, why can't you spell "omphalos?" It's with a ph,

Can you possibly be this insensituve and inconsiderate. Did you ever stop to think, for one second, that the Stone Worshiper perhaps is purposely eschewing the unfettered proclivity to consternate and niggle over hydrogen proton concentrations, therefore, The One Who Worships Stones replaced the pH with a tH.

Come on....give a guy a break.....and a gal....don't forget the gals.....and the homosexual child molestors.....don't forget the homosexual child molestors lest you piss ol Weyrich off.

10/09/2006 02:56:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Gates will Open in dec 21, 2012

A few theories on what may happen.

The year 2006 is a tunnel opened through the gate of the last cycle. Some will pass through this tunnel others will be educated for 10 years. The permission to enter this channel is given to them. This period is a preparation program of 6 world years. (2012)

Some say the nephalim will return.

Early Christians were familiar with teachings about "Gates of Heaven", and some suggest St. Peter's appointment as "gate-keeper" is a reference to this belief. Statues of Peter often show him holding two keys--the keys to lower and higher heaven, life and death, heaven and hell, or other dualistic interpretations. That Jesus Himself referred to these gates is viewed by some in Matthew 7.14 and 16.18

Yet, the Maya have a different theory. They describe past visits of Quetzalcoatl, the Feathered Serpent (according to some, "feathered" equates to flying technology while "serpent" refers to the heavenly wormhole-stargate), descending through a "hole in the sky" on a rope ladder (another version of the descending-Quetzalcoatl myth describes him sailing down on a winged ship). They prophecy in 2012 this "serpent rope" will emerge again from the center of the Milky Way and Quetzalcoatl will return.

In the zodiac, where the sun travels across the sky, the four brightest stars are found four signs apart in Taurus, Leo, Aquarius, and Scorpio (Ophiuchus). This is where things get interesting: only two of these signs, the bull and Scorpio, occupy the places where the Milky Way crosses the ecliptic. At Scorpio the ecliptic crosses the Milky Way at galactic center. Scorpio is only part of the full sign that is most corrupted of the ancient zodiac symbols. It has been purposely obscured. In ancient times it was a composite sign of both an eagle and a serpent, ergo Ophiuchus (the serpent holder). Both these symbols were assigned to the tribe of Dan. Every 6,480 years these signs align with the cardinal points of the year, the solstices and the equinoxes [the precession of the equinoxes is divided into four distinct ages of 6,480 years or 25,920 (the zodiacal cycle) divided by 4. The zodiacal cycle, which lasts 25,920 years, has four fixed signs—Aquarius, Taurus, Leo and Scorpio—separated by 6,480 years each. Note in the Bible that we see an angel with four faces—the face of a Lion (Leo), a Bull (Taurus), a Man (the angel) and an Eagle (Ophiuchus)]. It is at this time that the faces of the cherubim are aligned with the divisions of the year that the old age dies and the new age begins. Particularly with the sign of Dan at galactic center, the indication of the end of the age is most dramatic. On the morning when the sun rises in this sign, also at the galactic center, the Milky Way surrounds the horizon of the earth. Ophiuchus is perched atop the galactic bulge with the sun rising at its feet...

The complete symbol of the 33rd degree Mason comprises all the factors of the timing of this event... The new age will come "out of chaos" from the old. As 33 degrees of the great circle of the earth is 2012 miles, this sign will be at peak alignment at winter solstice, December 21,2012... exactly when the Mayan calendar ends and their heavenly serpent god returns. This is the "first time" of the Egyptians, when the primordial mound of the earth rose from the starry sea 6,480 ago.

10/09/2006 03:01:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Open the gates

10/09/2006 03:04:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To the anonymous stone-hugging moron.......

Yes, why thank you with your condemnation of me accusing me of being stoned.

Like i care enough to write you a nice reply

Impress me modern man genius.

Mister OM phalic SCEPTIC man Levitate on this.hahaha


Build a BETTER pyramid ......Mister smart ass omtocoligisticpholossceptic (proper misspelling)with a proper ph that is silent.
Mister whatever your hard to write name is.



To this day, atheistic scholars and scientists are at a loss to explain the megalithic structures and extremely advanced civilizations that existed in ancient times. These structures still stand today after thousands of years.

After the flood, much of the landscape was eroded. A landing base was needed for the Gods and the twin pyramids at Giza in Egypt were built to replicate the twin peaks of Mount Ararat.¹ Measurements were taken from the skies. The Gods also used the Pyramids to do ritual work, for magickal ceremonies and initiation rites.

There are 365.24 cubits in the pyramid's base. This corresponds exactly to the solar year. The sum of the base diagonals gives an approximation of the number of years in a total precession of the equinoxes. (Just short of 26,000). The pyramid's apex corresponds to the North Pole, the perimeter is equivalent to the equator, and its four plane surfaces accurately represent the four quadrants of the hemisphere. These measurements parallel the ley lines and magnetic fields of the Earth.

Stoned Anony

10/09/2006 03:19:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Are you getting enough oxygen?

10/09/2006 03:28:00 PM  
Anonymous Head trip said...

Good question. And not only oxygen. Maybe not enough serotonin, and a little too much dopamine there, eh what?

10/09/2006 03:37:00 PM  
Anonymous Shrubageddon said...

We are what we eat...or so the adage goes. The following Issue of The Nation did an excellent job of covering the issues in regards to what we eat. In fact, the entire Issue, for the most part, is dedicated to Food & Us. It's well worth the read, if you get a chance.

http://www.thenation.com/issue/20060911

10/09/2006 04:10:00 PM  
Anonymous Avicenna / Ibn Sina said...

Dear Cuttlefish,

My wife and I just checked out your site. Very impressive content. Look forward to seeing the missing pages filled. Nice graphic layout too. Quite aesthetically pleasing.

I'd seen the earthship movie before, and even been out to one of the communities near Taos. It's just so intelligently organic, and naturally beautiful. There are many other architectural solutions, including these few:

www.bfi.org
www.calearth.org
www.permacity.com
www.ecobusinesslinks.com

I do take exception with one of the things you wrote in your manifesto, as it were. No problem cutting the socks from under Piaget et al. Many of the observations/ conclusions were fudged and/or misinterpreted. But I cannot agree with your assertion that all children, even from the earliest ages, readily know the difference and distinguish between all fantasy/ imagination and "consensus reality." This is just patently false. [Hey, it's not even true for a lot of adults. Just read some of the posts on this page, if you doubt it.]

Sorry to disagree so completely on this one point, but the data on this one goes beyond my opinion or any particular theory. Anyone who has been around kids would concur. And I am father to six of them, three now in their mid to late twenties, and three pre-school toddlers. I was married once before for two decades, and am married now. No other bambini scampering about that I know of.

So, this is from direct experience. And I have worked the gamut in the field of education, from pre-school to elementary to jr. high and HS, up to being a university professor for many years. But don't hold that against me, please. It's not as much of a handicap as it might sound. Actually, I got to play with toys and play sports a lot, and got paid for it. Not half bad.

Nothing in my experience would tell me that your statement about all kids, or even a significant percentage of them, having the cognitive skill sets you impute to them from practically the crib vis a vis distinguishing fantasy and reality is generically true.

Certainly some exceptional kids can be found with regard to any developmental parameter, physical, mental, or spiritual, you might want to consider. Just look at Mozart. Jesus. Siddhartha Gotama. But, alas, these are the exceptions.

Your individual experience as a child, or with other children, may indeed tend to support your conclusions. I would think that it must. But I would simply submit to you then that these, your experiences, are exceptional. The "rule", so to speak, for the mass of kids, is quite different, in my experience. And I've spent a lot of time scribbling with them, crawling around on all fours, being silly, and also being serious.

A four year old's questions about the universe, about people, about what they see and hear and what they wonder about, can and do knock MY socks off on a continual basis.

To conclude that often SOME children understand a particular situation so clearly, better even than most adults, is of course sometimes accurate. No doubt. But not universally so, nor to the degree you state. For us to act on this basis as adults would be to do our children a grave disservice, and to place them in serious danger.

A perfect example of where our duty to care kicks in would be with some little kid who watches Superman and thinks he can stop a freight train with his bare hands. This is a simple example of where the distinction between fantasy and reality frequently blurs for SOME kids, though not necessarily most of them beyond a certain stage of development.

Think about it a little more, and I think your nobly idealistic view of children is precisely that, idealistic and rather naive. I wouldn't want someone who is trying to promote good things for the future of life on earth throw out the baby with the grey water, so to speak.

10/09/2006 04:13:00 PM  
Anonymous Shrubageddon said...

[Hey, it's not even true for a lot of adults. Just read some of the posts on this page, if you doubt it.]

I hear ya. Some of the folks who post here actually think there is a real God.

Can you imagine that? The biggest fantasy of all......and it's upheld by a substantial number of adults who force feed it down the unrealistic children's throats.

10/09/2006 04:26:00 PM  
Blogger gary said...

Wait a minute, you mean God isn't real?

Actually, wouldn't it be funny if in 2012 an actual winged serpent god flew down and demanded human sacrifice?

10/09/2006 04:33:00 PM  
Anonymous SamHill said...

You can always count on Al Martin for the dirt.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

GOP Sexcapades in DC Babylon: The Hidden History

(10-9-06) Before the Mark Foley gay sex scandal, there is a long and sordid history of the Gay Republicans in Washington DC, which includes the Cupid Club, the Capitol Club, and Capitol Escort Service Inc. There was even an incident when George Bush Sr. was allegedly caught in a completely accidental sting when the Washington police raided the wrong building.

The Capitol Club seems to have been formed in the mid 1970s, and one of the original partners was Roy Cohn, the notorious gay Republican mobster lawyer

About 3 years before he died of AIDS, Roy had gotten himself into some compromising stuff with some young boys, and it was always the same CIA agent, Kippie Richardson, who could be called the Agency’s assigned guy to clean up Republican Sexual Predilection Problems.

This goes back a lot of years, but Roy used to handle envelopes for everybody. He was a bagman through Kippie on behalf of the Republican Party, since there had to be a continuous flow of money, obviously, to keep everything quiet all of the time.

The original organization was based both in New York City and Washington DC. After Roy died, the physical facilities that Roy had owned, were sold off. Then it became exclusively Washington-based, out of a Brownstone on Massachusetts Avenue. Hence the term “Brownstone.” As in Brownstone Incident, or Scandal -- whatever you want to call it, in 1977.

What broke the thing open, or what made it become somewhat public (because it was all allegations, and there was nothing hard and fast) is when George Bush Sr. got mixed up in it. Actually he got caught. It’s funny how everyone forgets.

The Washington police inadvertently raided the wrong building. It turned out to be the building that was on the “off list,” that they weren’t supposed to touch. It’s a long and interesting tale that we won’t go into now, but Bush Sr. was caught in a sting that was completely accidental, because the Washington police had raided the wrong building.

The Washington police were always at odds with the Agency and the FBI’s CI-3 division. The Washington police were always looking to make a name for themselves in counter-espionage or intelligence cases in Washington. The Washington police, unbeknownst to either the Agency or CI-3, had set up its own honey-pot-type trap for Soviet diplomats who were not what they claimed to be, in order to try to compromise them. They were running this in a building diagonally across the street from where ‘The Brownstone’ was. So somehow the addresses got mixed up when they went to raid the place, and George Bush Sr. was caught with his proverbial pants down.

As you can imagine that was hushed up quickly. But, enough got out so that everybody knows about it today. Any student of history or conspiracy theorist knows what the Brownstone Incident was all about.

10/09/2006 04:59:00 PM  
Anonymous Richard said...

"Actually, wouldn't it be funny if in 2012 an actual winged serpent god flew down and demanded human sacrifice?"

If you want to see a preview just check "Q-The Winged Serpent."

From Amazon:
"OK, who's Q, anyway? "Q" is short for Quetzacoatl, an enormous winged serpent and Aztec deity who's called back to life after a series of ritual human sacrifices in Manhattan. It takes a lot to keep a critter like Q satisfied, so he flies around and lops the heads off sunbathers, window washers and swimmers as handily as popping grapes off the vine. The police are confounded by the murders, decapitated bodies (blood rains from the skies on NYC denizens) and Q-sightings. The solution comes in the unlikely form of Jimmy (Michael Moriarty), a petty thief. After a heist goes bad, he hides from his cronies in the uppermost spires of the Chrysler Building and stumbles on the giant bird's nest and egg. He leads the NYPD up to the lair for a big showdown with Q, but it's not quite as easy as anybody thought, of course. Director/screenwriter Larry Cohen was one of the more inventive, original voices of Seventies B-movies, with credits that include God Told Me To, Black Caesar, It's Alive!, Hell Up in Harlem and The Stuff. With Q, Cohen put together an interesting, entertaining mix of Fifties sci-fi homage (complete with great stop-motion special effects for the terrifying beast), action movie, and crime drama. It also touches on the metaphysical question of how exactly one goes about killing off a god. It'd be difficult to think of a more compelling performance from Moriarty; as the piano-playing, scat-singing small-time crook Jimmy, he's repellent and sleazy. However, he's struck on something that will give him 15 minutes to bask in the spotlight ("I'm the most important man in New York!", he gloats) and give him a chance to redeem himself and save thousands of lives. Moriarty brings a depth to the character that makes him absorbing, if not quite sympathetic, and gets to come across with the choice line, "Stick it up your…brain! Your small little brain!". With plenty of humor, suspense, a gallon or two of gore, and great performances from Moriarty and David Carradine and Richard Roundtree as his cop nemeses, this is great, original, entertaining sci-fi fare." --Jerry Renshaw

Kind of sounds like a typical day in a Iraq, doesn't it?

10/09/2006 05:06:00 PM  
Anonymous Richard said...

To samhill, Billmon says that the gay GOP-ers call themselves The Lavender Bund, & they've been around forever.
Read it here:
http://billmon.org/archives/002795.html
"David Corn says he even has a copy of a list that's circulating in Washington. In my day (the '80s) we didn't have a list, but the gay GOP underground in DC did have a name, one that as far as I know the members invented for themselves: the Lavender Bund. That ironic sensibility, you know.

It was common knowledge, at least among the journalists I drank with, that certain mid-level Reagan appointees were bundists, as were some of the rising young studs in Gingrich's House insurgent movement, and a rather larger number of the conservative foot soldiers in the think tanks and on K Street. Some of the names have since appeared in print, some haven't. On the whole, though, the bund has been fairly successful at keeping the closet door closed. When the Washington Times (which wasn't exactly butch central itself) started poking around in the political and sexual dealings of lobbyist Craig Spence in the summer of 1989, the episode was hushed up fairly quickly -- making it something of a role model for the strange story of Jeff/Jim Gannon/Guckert. If it wasn't for the gay press, which decided a few years ago that it was OK, or even obligatory, to out gay GOP politicians who vote against the community's interests, the closet would probably be even more crowded than it currently is.

I didn't hang with religious conservatives when I was in Washington, and I certainly don't today, but it was definitely my impression that the poobahs of the fundamentalist movement were just as aware as us reporters that the Lavender Bund existed, but tacitly, if uncomfortably, accepted it as one of the unfortunate realities of coalition politics -- or, as it's now called, "transactional lobbying."

10/09/2006 05:12:00 PM  
Anonymous Avicenna / Ibn Sina said...

Cuttlefish, you should maybe put up more stuff on Hundertwasser. He was truly amazing. I saw a short film on him once, including scenes of an apartment building in Wien with a wavy floor that massaged your feet. He was very much into integrating nature, sustainability, and individual expressions of color into the urban environment.

Then of course there's Antoni Gaudi', the master of alternative geometry and beautifully curving lines and intricate details.

Ignoring the yapping dog, heal-biters like arbustomegiddo, I thought of something further on the issue of the child development.

In my contact with kids I have found that in the cases of those who were etiher physically and/or sexually abused by adults, whether by a parent, sibling, step-parent, uncle, aunt, or grandparent, that many of the abused children, predictably, come to mistrust most, if not all, adults, even when they themselves become adults, since they quite naturally still identify with other childre. This can of course be the cause of tremendous empathic understanding for others, but it can have untoward consequences, as well.

Having myself grown up with severe physical beatings, by the time I was a teenager I was so contrary toward adult authority that I would go in the "out" doors of supermarkets and up the "down" escalators (as but two minor examples) just to demonstrate my defiance of all things authoritarian and "adult." Luckily, I did stop at stop signs and red lights, but let's just say I almost made a career out of defying conventional authority in a host of imaginable ways.

Of course such reactions, while understandable, aren't necessarilty intelligent nor helpful responses to the problem. And they can be quite dangerous to one's life and limb. I think this kind of thing can sometimes also explain why people as adults, harking back to their own experience as children, develop the certainty that kids understand things more fully than adults, because the adults in their experience have betrayed the trust they were meant to keep, and acted either maliciously or stupidly. Often a combination of both.

Sadly, ironically, this erroneous conclusion can and has been seized upon by proponents of child-adult sex, to claim that children are capable of consent in this regard by dint of their purportedly "adult-like" cognitive abilities. So we can have a dangerously erroneous conclusion about the cognitive abilities of children being drawn by victims of abuse, which is then in turn used by would be abusers to justify their horrible acts against other children. This is indeed a tragedy to be avoided, and it is yet one more cynical manipulation by the pederastocracy that seems to run our government.

10/09/2006 05:15:00 PM  
Anonymous Shrubageddon said...

This is indeed a tragedy to be avoided, and it is yet one more cynical manipulation by the pederastocracy that seems to run our government


Not that I disagree, but one man's reality is another man's fantasy. Some, nay many, would say that your above assertion is pure fantasy.....yet, you so condescendingly say that children, and some adults here, are, for the most part, incapable of separating fantasy from reality, most of the time.

Hmmmm...it never pays to be so sure of oneself...because once you do, you begin to collect moss and petrify.

And the megiddo comment.....that sounds vaguely familiar, doesn't it, Richard? Me thinks we may have an imposter on our hands. Wasn't Mojo Filter quite fond of using the megiddo reference? Alters, anyone? This site does attract them, so it's certainly not implausible. In fact, it's highly probable.....but at least it makes for good fun and keeps us sharp like Admiral Stockdale. I loved him in that debate in the early 90's. I laughed so hard I soiled myself.....and that's hard, dammit!!

10/09/2006 06:59:00 PM  
Anonymous Shrubageddon said...

Richard, thanks for the Q-Tip. I appreciate it. Every now and then, we need a Feathery Serpent to clean the wax out. I think that's what Jefferson meant, anyway.

10/09/2006 07:01:00 PM  
Anonymous Avicenna / Ibn Sina said...

Richard/Shrub, you forgot which name you used to write your last two comments. You're talking to yourself, addressing Richard, when the comment you're referring to is signed by Shrubmegiddo. Pretty sloppy.

As for your comment that I am someone else, I didn't know it was a crime to read these posts and pick up some of the slings and arrows one finds for future use.

For a wingnut like yourself, who seems to post under a half a dozen different names, all cross-talking, and usually about meaningless, irrelevant crap, that is quite a leap to make. Kind of like dragging a stinky red herring across the path.

But what would I know? I'm an "alter", right?

10/09/2006 07:21:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Tomorrow is the big SCHOOL TERROR CONFERENCE sponsored by the irreproachable leader himself.

Bush is serious.
Something must be done to protect America's future.
Our children.

Looks like a gun roundup is in the air.

I mean who is against protecting the children.

Insidiously simple in its use of events to produce more draconian laws.


Bush and co will draft a new proposal.Congress will sign it without looking at it.( as per the patriot act)

Bush will have good citizens

doing the right thing.

Handing them BAD GUNS in to the PROPER authorities.

Ever wonder what those new halliburton facilities in the usa are for?

10/09/2006 07:30:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

Avicenna / Ibn Sina,
Thanks--very thoughtful comments. Hundertwasser is definitely on my list; the further I look into this thing, the more I find that people like Hundertwasser have been down the path already. As you indicated earlier, the technology and the practical methods have been around for a very long time--it's getting them in the public's awareness that's the problem. (Which is not to say that there haven't also been improvements on the old designs. Peter Vetsch,, for example, has incorporated many elements of the new "smart house" technology into his designs, which are really very good.)

I'd also like to thank you for your compliments. I went into this project with no knowledge of html whatsoever and have been working with serious time constraints; all of which has really slowed the process. I'm finally at the point where I can begin to start collating my research into web format, so check back again from time to time--the suggestions are great and I promise to make full use of them.

The business about a child's ability to separate reality from imagination is a very deep subject indeed. I think that Gropnik, who wrote that article I quoted, was after something a little different from your observations about the difficulty that many people (young and old alike) have in taking reality seriously, often with deadly consequences. Gopnik writes:

"Even the very youngest children already are perfectly able to discriminate between the imaginary and the real, whether in books or movies or in their own pretend play. Children with the most elaborate and beloved imaginary friends will gently remind overenthusiastic adults that these companions are, after all, just pretend.

When they are aware of their imagineering and of the need to make distinctions between that world and the ordinary, and by comparison, sadly lacking reality, most kids are capable of the distinction. The most typical problem we run into with this is when someone refuses to acknowledge the primacy of the mundane. This may or may not be a conscious decision, but what happens is that he or she becomes so unhappy with the everyday that they refuse to concede that their world only exists in their heads.

This phenomenon is extremely widespread and entirely understandable, given what this world is like, but it's really a separate issue from the learning the world through inventing another model that Gopnik talks about. If we stop and think about the level of self- and mass-delusion that exists in society (the basis of racism, patriotism, and most of the other superiority/inferiority complexes that so infuse the world), we quickly see that's rather more the rule than the exception.

Even among cheerful optimists like myself, there's a certain level of giving people, and our chances of survival as a species, "the benefit of doubt." In fact, it might be the case that such a measured "delusion" is actually necessary, since a truly honest appraisal of how we act toward one another can only have a very negative result. Hope is not less meaningful for its well-intended avoidance of the terrible absence of benevolence in the universe. "Let it be so" can bring promise out of despair, and this is something else again from a troubled teen believing his hands can stop the train or that the acid he took really will make him able to fly.

Your point, however, is well taken. I will try to include it in the discussion. Thanks again.

10/09/2006 07:31:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Worse, they want to arm the teachers in the classrooms with guns, for God's sake. Just what we need, wack job teachers threatening to shoot kids if they don't sit down in their chairs.

10/09/2006 07:32:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Like Bush
Scatalogical Shrub said in his unending babbling.
PULL MY FINGER

He is a such a card.

Him and his new friend Orthellos orifice is stinking up the place.

signed,
Grumpy

10/09/2006 07:37:00 PM  
Anonymous Avicenna / Ibn Sina said...

Sometimes it seems like there's some kind of malicious jinn haunting this site. Check that, at least one of them seems to be somewhat psychotic. Sometimes it sounds like the inner life of Regan from the exorcist on this board.

Be that as it may, this comment is addressed to Cuttlefish re the discussion about children's ability to discern and distinguish reality from their own, or more importantly -- someone else's, fantasy(ies).

I am not familiar with Gropnik. I'll check him or her out and see what I think. Still, there is the need for even the most intelligent, discerning child to build up a texture of experience about the world before they can begin to distinguish what's real, what's possible, and what is not.

It seems like every one of my kids at one time or another has asked me to take a slice of bread that's been cut in half, or a torn piece of paper, and make it whole again. Often accompanied by tears when daddy can't do it for them. This is a simple example, but the same principle applies to more complex situations. And the more realistic media become, and the more time some kids spend immersed in tv or computer games, the more impaired they become with regard to their ability to test out their impressions and to discern what is real and what is imaginary.

Isn't that really kind of the essence of what media "mind control" is about? You didn't see what you thought you saw, you saw what we will tell you that you saw. I don't want to get into a political discussion, but it seems to me that this is what is behind the perennial confusion around such events as the free-falling buildings of 9/11, certain assassinations, and Ronald Reagan saying that trees are the main source of air pollution (as opposed to oxygen. Hello.), and that ketchup is a vegetable.

You also wrote: "In fact, it might be the case that such a measured 'delusion' is actually necessary, since a truly honest appraisal of how we act toward one another can only have a very negative result. Hope is not less meaningful for its well-intended avoidance of the terrible absence of benevolence in the universe."

I am all the more impressed that you can be a cheerful optimist in light of how you see things, however, I disagree wholeheartedly that there is a "terrible absence of benevolence in the universe."

On the contrary, I think that the universe is benignly indifferent, at worst. We could spend hours hashing that one out, but I'll put you in my "creative visualization" and/or my prayers (take your pick) that the universe might reveal itself differently to you that it seems to have done thus far.

I also sincerely disagree that an honest appraisal of how we act towards one another can only lead to a negative result. Quite the contrary. I find the majority of people the world over to be genuinely decent, caring folks. Self-interested, of course. Not necessarily altruistic to any extent. But not sui generis ill-intended towards their fellow human beings and other life forms.

You may call me a paranoid, or worse, but a truly believe that the elite of this world have foisted that myth upon us, in no small part by setting such a piss-poor example of how to act towards one's fellow women and men for millenia. I'll take my lot with the peasants of any land first and foremost. Often have. And I do believe that we are all born with the predisposition to be good, with the exception of some developmentally anomalous creatures who seem to be born to cause harm, whether by dint of genes or karma, I do not know.

And I believe that the mass of humanity are still inclined to be and do good, but that neo-liberal globalized "culture", in service of the wealthy and powerful, is always pushing them hard in the opposite direction. Divide and conquer.

I say "Unite and prevail." Though I wouldn't call myself a Christian, I do believe the meek shall inherit the earth. That's how much of an optimist I am.

Let's just make it a viable one that we inherit.

10/09/2006 08:00:00 PM  
Anonymous Shrubageddon said...

Oh, and for those who aren't too busy massaging their egos, and have botehred to read the link I posted, Organic Valley Chocolate Milk is the best God Damned Chocolate Milk I have ever imbibed. I highly suggest it.....and I highly suggest Organic Valley, in general.

Once again, I implore you to read the link.....it's Food for Thought...both literally, and figuratively.

10/09/2006 08:02:00 PM  
Anonymous Shrubageddon said...

Sometimes it seems like there's some kind of malicious jinn haunting this site. Check that, at least one of them seems to be somewhat psychotic. Sometimes it sounds like the inner life of Regan from the exorcist on this board.

And that's one of the characteristics that makes this site so endearing, IMHO. Where else can one go to be called scatalogical? Variety is the spice of life....so, it's best not to avoid turning this place into an Ivory Tower for Nobel Peace Prize Aspirants.

10/09/2006 08:12:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mad Mutt said:
"Shrubageddon said...

[Hey, it's not even true for a lot of adults. Just read some of the posts on this page, if you doubt it.]

I hear ya. Some of the folks who post here actually think there is a real God.

Can you imagine that? The biggest fantasy of all......and it's upheld by a substantial number of adults who force feed it down the unrealistic children's throats.
4:26 PM"

There's a word for you Shrub, courteously brought to us months and months ago by MaryKmusic. It's "ignoranus" which means that you're not only ignorant, but an asshole to boot!!!

10/09/2006 08:51:00 PM  
Anonymous Reverend Leroy said...

Right ON!

10/09/2006 09:02:00 PM  
Anonymous the Amen chorus said...

Amen.

10/09/2006 09:03:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mad Mutt said: Thank you Reverend Leroy and Amen Chorus!!!

10/09/2006 09:06:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

http://www.electoral-vote.com/

10/09/2006 09:10:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

Avicenna / Ibn Sina,
I think we're talking at cross purposes here somehow. Maybe it's because I wrote that last response so quickly. My statement about the evil we'd find in the world through a brutally honest look at it was meant as a complaint against what another RI semi-regular, miraculix, calls the incessant curiosity about and fixation upon "dystopian porn"--the news and crises (manufactured for the most part) that form the backdrop of impending doom that we carry in the back of our minds, whether we want it there or not. I couldn't agree more with your position on this:

"I find the majority of people the world over to be genuinely decent, caring folks. Self-interested, of course. Not necessarily altruistic to any extent. But not sui generis ill-intended towards their fellow human beings and other life forms.

You may call me a paranoid, or worse, but a truly believe that the elite of this world have foisted that myth upon us..."


The picture of man as beast is what we will find, on the surface, at any rate, because that's what we're supposed to believe. I would not have started this project if I believed it was true. Check out what miraculix has to say about this at that discussion link I listed above.

10/09/2006 10:59:00 PM  
Anonymous Richard said...

To my good friend Avicenna / Ibn Sina, I see by this comment: "Richard/Shrub, you forgot which name you used to write your last two comments. You're talking to yourself, addressing Richard, when the comment you're referring to is signed by Shrubmegiddo. Pretty sloppy."

....that you've gleaned the truth. Frankly I am in awe of your razor sharp deductive skills. Sherlock Holmes would be proud.

At first, when I stumbled across your posts here, I thought, "Cool. Another babbling woo-woo to laugh at." But now, with your astute deconstruction of the Richard/Shrub paradigm, I now realize that each & every observation that you've previously treated me to is as equally spot on.

Thankfully we have teachers like you handling the delicate putty-like minds of our young.

With legions of your students wandering the halls of reality, how could tomorrow be anything other than a veritable wonderland. I now feel the golden glow of hope as it illuminates the dark underbelly of my schizophrenia.

No more this continual speeding across country to maintain 2 lives & 2 IP addresses...

...finally my 2 wives & my 6 children will meet.

My God man, the driving alone has practically killed me. I haven't slept in 6 years....

(sniffle)(sob)

...I'm sorry, the base emotionalism of this moment is even making my typing fingers weep with anguish. Finally the many will be one.

Once again, thank you sir...your intellect is a tablet of Lamisil amongst a sea of toe-nail fungus.

Rishrubard

10/10/2006 12:15:00 AM  
Anonymous starroute said...

IC/Avicenna -

On the matter of children, I suspect you're each half-right.

Both my personal recollections and my experiences with my own children suggest that kids do have a strong sense of real vs. imaginary. I recall any number of times I would offend them by trying to point out that they shouldn't take what they were seeing on tv too seriously and be met with an indignant, "I *know* this isn't *real*."

On the other hand, they sometimes lack sufficient data to determine what should go in the "real" basket and what in the "imaginary" basket. (As do we all.)

This is, I suspect, a problem of language. Infants and toddlers are perfect natural scientists. They have to investigate everything, test everything, find out everything for themselves. But as they learn speech, they start to develop the habit of taking other people's word for things -- and with it, the potential for being deluded.

Taking other people's word can be a useful shortcut. It enables us to know more of the world than we could ever learn from our own experience. But it also encourages mental laziness and sets us up for being conned by things that *no one* has ever experienced -- but that certain people are willing to claim are true.

10/10/2006 02:31:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Now now kiddies. Eye on the ball. Shrub and Richard are different, they may rattle on together about things like it is a private IRC chat between them occassionally, both may have a similar low "snap! I'm at your throat!" ratio, though Richard is far more intelligent than Shrub, and Shrub is harmless and has some useful "this is shit" sort of comments that should be said sometimes. Unfortunately, it's only sometimes. Then once more, when Shrub takes time out to notify us about his favorite chocolate milk, and actually expecting to stroke him and thank him, it's beyond me what he is at except intentionally wanting to annoy people because he gets off in sick ways. Shrub gets off playing mind games with people, don't play and make him really mad. Richard, I for one don't associate you with Shrub. No one should be sentenced to that level of self- psychotic hell except Shrub.

STAY TUNED FOR THE NEXT EPISODE OF...AS THE BLOG TURNS...

Things we should pick up. What about that

cymatics thing?

Stone worship?

visualization?

the biology of DNA drug trips?

Conspiracy of Silence (Republican pedophile networks)? Foley, Hastert who is living with his own male page...

Guess what I just read about Speaker Hastert's chief of staff ...

(posted by Lawrence O'Donnell)
Who is Scott Palmer?

Palmer is Speaker Hastert's chief of staff, which makes him the key player in the what-did-Hastert-know-and-when-did-he-know-it drama. [...]

If Fordham did warn Palmer about Foley a long time ago, what are the odds that Palmer did not tell Hastert? As close to zero as you can get. Many chiefs of staff are close, very close, to their bosses on Capitol Hill. But none are closer than Scott Palmer is to Denny Hastert. Haster and his chief of staff Palmer don't just work together all day, they live together.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lawrence-odonnell/who-is-scott-palmer_b_31171.html

And it was ol Hastert who made the announcment that "it's all different now", sure......

Don't buy it. Tell Haster to resign. He even has the gaul to post a 1-800 number. It's like telling a criminal boss what loose ends he has to cover up if you call it. Intead, tell him to resign as well.

Mr. Hastert's Toll-Free Tip Line

Speaker Hastert has graciously made available a toll-free Tip line to notify them of Congress' mis-deeds, so they may investigate them fully.

Presumably, it would also be appropriate to notify them of
other matters which have led to our being "violated".

Illegal wars.
Torture.
Squashing habeous corpus.
Tinkering with the constitution.
Willy-nilly spying on American citizens.

The list of "violations" goes on and on.

C'mon, Let Denny know how you've been "violated".

1-866-384-0481

It's toll-free. CALL NOW!

http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/2006/10/hastert_briefin.html

10/10/2006 02:39:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Speaking of the meek inheriting the earth, is anyone else familiar with the "Real Prophecy" series of books, written by the pseudonymous "Joseph J. Adamson"? I think there are about 5 of them now. They're a counterweight to the "Left Behind" nonsense book series.

10/10/2006 03:04:00 AM  
Blogger ericswan said...

I have to agree with Shrub for the second time. Richard could be more forthcoming. Anon 213 could try a little harder to "hear" other points of view and the band played on.

My contribution would be to remind all of us that we are all part of the process. You have to participate in the process and if you don't, others will and your voice was not enough to change them.
The process is nominations, candidates, scrutineers, pollsters, pundits and politicians. If you don't play you will pay.

10/10/2006 05:57:00 AM  
Blogger Sounder said...

The exchange between Avcienna,IC and starroute is respectful and engaging even while representing different ontological pretences. What a breath of fresh air. We make the world new by reconciling different styles of thought, rather than by convincing others of the 'Truth' of your particular pretence(secular or spiritual).

As to the children issue, the look in my childrens eyes when young I took as saying; 'Hey eh, what the hell is going on?' Consciousness develops, and before analitical thinking kicks in around seven years it seems prudent to provide clear boundary conditions for children.As analyitical thinking does kick in, one then becomes oblidged to back off so as to encourage the child to internalize and develop their own boundry conditions.


As we learn to identify the positive polarity within both Law(order) and Spontaneity(liberty), we will reconcile our different pretences.

10/10/2006 07:02:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

US says North Koreas test was a eeny teeny one if that even,probally a dud.

Sorry, Kim you cannot enter our exclusive club.
What a psycho drama.

Like saying you got a small dick or no dick at all.

US intends to make him show his hand .

Lighting up the sensors on the keyhole satellites.
So they can effectively destroy his arsenal.

10/10/2006 08:14:00 AM  
Anonymous Shrubageddon said...

Then once more, when Shrub takes time out to notify us about his favorite chocolate milk

Oh, come on, Bulldog, what the hell have got against Chocolate Milk? Are you allergic? There are no hormones or antibiotics....and they use nothing but the best chocolate. I was sharing with you....and, yet, you reject that kind gesture. What does that say about you?

I have empathy for you, my dear Bulldog. I think it's terrible what they did to you.....but you have it within you to release yourself from your bondage. See, they trained you to shackle yourself, metaphorically.....and only you hold the key to unlock those shackles....so, please, unlock them now....and let's enjoy a glass of cold, luscious Organic Valley Chocolate Milk together before we take our waterless showers.

And...for the record....you're wrong. I am Richard.....and Richard is me.....and, here's the real kicker...I am you....and you are me.

God Bless.

10/10/2006 10:00:00 AM  
Anonymous rapt said...

I love you shrub. What a dry spot this would be without your jagged puzzles. I don't try too hard to comprehend your meaning - the word flow is enough.

I'm roused to consider sharing more as you do, to over-ride that implanted logical certainty that many of us proudly display as success.

10/10/2006 11:19:00 AM  
Anonymous Shrubageddon said...

I'm roused to consider sharing more as you do, to over-ride that implanted logical certainty that many of us proudly display as success.

Thtat's a great way to articulate it, Rapt.....and I love you to.....and please do find it in yourself to share more.

I love Jon, as well, and he has been quite a contributor, as of late, regardless of what Grumpy Anony says.

I'll never forget Jon's recounting of the time he and his ma saw the shapeshifter in the car next to them in South Carolina, or the dream he had of the Pope bending over a young man.

10/10/2006 12:14:00 PM  
Anonymous John T. Hayward said...

http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_1294.shtml

10/10/2006 12:39:00 PM  
Blogger Rambuncle said...

Kids and fantasy related:

It may have been in Blink by Malcolm Gladwell, or it may have been in another book about the brain, or it may have been an article(I know, my memory is fantastic!), but children below four(if I remember correctly) have trouble identifying the size difference between objects and the difference between a picture of the object and the object. A kid will try to sit in a chair that is too small or will try to put their foot into a picture of a shoe. Growing up is learning how the world should be perceived. By focusing so much on identifying objects(this is a chair, that is not a chair), the labelling part of the brain develops before the perceptual systems have been fully integrated into larger mind. When a child sees a small chair, the overriding thought is "I sit in that," so they try to sit because their perceptual engine has been overpowered(I sit in that versus that's too small). We are taught as children(or just observe how the adults react) to learn the rules, rules which don't make sense to our biological/physical selves. Think of a dinner in a fantasy restaurant. You pick up your main course fork and are tut-tutted by whomever that you are supposed to eat your salad with your salad fork. How can anyone know, without being told, which fork is for what? You can't, because there are no signals, only cultural rules. You have shown your ignorance/outside status. Think about a fork and a spoon. It is obvious upon use which is used for what(not that you HAVE to use it any one way, but you can see what type of food each is optimised for).

That's not my main point. We are taught to identify and categorize as our main cerebral activity. This goes here and does this. I can sit on this but not this. We lose our creativity as we identify the group an object fits in instead of identifying what characteristics an object has. We spend so much time trying to figure out what we are supposed to do with things we stop trying to see what we can do. This "thinking style" is continued to people/groups/cultures/religions/etc. When we see people, we try to identify them/their character/their beliefs by their skin color/clothes/other accouterments, and often ignore the deeper inner voice that judges based on posture/mannerisms/facial expressions/intuition. Some people are less attached to preconceptions than others and quickly change their model after talking to the person, but most all of us pre-judge because it is part of the cultural make-up/the way we've been taught to think. The way to destroy fundamentalism of any stripe is to destroy the thought-pattern it is based on. The label is not the thing. With General Semantics, Alfred Korzybski tried to present a new English grammar designed to change the way we discuss the world, thus changing the way we think of the world.

10/10/2006 12:57:00 PM  
Anonymous Shrubageddon said...

Speaking of keyword hijacking, Ben & Jerry's has recently introduced several new flavors called Neopolitan Dynamite and Vermonty Python. I haven't tried Python, but the Dynamite is pretty righteous. It's a mixture of Cherries Garcia and Chocolate Fudge Brownie. Good stuff....but make sure you just savor it...cuz it's loaded with calories.

Yokshemosh

10/10/2006 04:31:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Shrub are you are decadent.

lysergic acid diethylamide is in Ben and jerrys ice cream

look at the label!!!

10/10/2006 04:45:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Shrrubbaggeddonn, how much do you weigh? (I've added some weight to your name in anticipation.) You talk an awful lot about the high-fat snack foods. And Booyakasha to you, too...

Love, Borat & Ali

p.s. to everyone - this paragraph (and its recommended reading) from "theDossier" (http://www.thedossier.ukonline.co.uk/) is making me a controlled demolition agnostic again:

Pre-planted explosives?
Some people have suggested that explosives were used to bring down the towers and building seven. Having extensive knowledge of building construction, theDossier does NOT believe that this is the case. The people who support this demolition theory have no understanding of the basic principles of structural engineering. They fail to grasp the relevance of the buildings' unique designs, the damage caused by the impacts and the resulting fires. It's quite possible that this theory is disinformation, and one would do well to steer clear of this ridiculous notion. Discussions on the subject can be read [here]:

http://www.indybay.org/news/2006/04/1813619.php

http://www.indybay.org/news/2006/04/1814156.php

10/10/2006 05:33:00 PM  
Anonymous Shrubageddon said...

Shrrubbaggeddonn, how much do you weigh?

I'll let you guess. Moderation is the key....and, of course, exercise.

Very little processed food.....B&J's is a rare exception. We make most other things, rather than having them already prepared.

10/10/2006 06:30:00 PM  
Anonymous Shrubageddon said...

Shrub are you are decadent.

Jägermeister.

But, yes, I am. I haven't been able to stop visualizing the French/Irish Lass in the Castle with Champagne. I have a lot of empathy for her.

10/10/2006 06:39:00 PM  
Blogger jules said...

Shrub you are a legend.

I was gonna save you a beer if you ever got here, instead of whistler.

but I will have to chase up the recipe for the old Norco chocolate milk. It was awesome, the new stuff is still good, but has a bit more crap in it than the old stuff.

Rambuncle said this:

"We lose our creativity as we identify the group an object fits in instead of identifying what characteristics an object has. We spend so much time trying to figure out what we are supposed to do with things we stop trying to see what we can do."

Brullyant

Its been a long time since I have seen q the winged serpant Rich, prolly nearly 20 years.
It was kind of cool tho. There are other monsters in NY now tho.

>>"For example, there's a secret message encoded on the upper inner thigh of that young hotty you're visualizing at work."

I've already found that one Shrub. it says, "Only in your dreams, old man." <<

There is a real tendency here for people (myself included) to take themselves too seriously. It seems to me that we need Rich and shrub here to keep that tendency in check.

Anyone ever heard the saying "remove the cork".

10/10/2006 07:27:00 PM  
Blogger jules said...

Shrub you are a legend.

I was gonna save you a beer if you ever got here, instead of whistler.

but I will have to chase up the recipe for the old Norco chocolate milk. It was awesome, the new stuff is still good, but has a bit more crap in it than the old stuff.

Rambuncle said this:

"We lose our creativity as we identify the group an object fits in instead of identifying what characteristics an object has. We spend so much time trying to figure out what we are supposed to do with things we stop trying to see what we can do."

Brullyant

Its been a long time since I have seen q the winged serpant Rich, prolly nearly 20 years.
It was kind of cool tho. There are other monsters in NY now tho.

>>"For example, there's a secret message encoded on the upper inner thigh of that young hotty you're visualizing at work."

I've already found that one Shrub. it says, "Only in your dreams, old man." <<

There is a real tendency here for people (myself included) to take themselves too seriously. It seems to me that we need Rich and shrub here to keep that tendency in check.

Anyone ever heard the saying "remove the cork".

10/10/2006 07:28:00 PM  
Anonymous Corky Lange said...

Yeah, Shrub n Jules and Dicklette, as in take the one out of yer arse and shove it in yer mouth, because all o you has shit coming out the wrong end.

10/10/2006 08:14:00 PM  
Anonymous Shrubageddon said...

We're not as talented as you, Corky. We haven't mastered the art of talking out of our assholes.

And, in case you haven't noticed, and you clearly haven't, there is no wrong end.

10/10/2006 08:40:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anony 5:33, NO Controlled Demolition??? For whom do you work/blog/post??? Is his name Satan, or just George Walker Bush, a.k.a. Dickhead Cheny's "hand-up-my-ass" Puppet???........Madder Mutt!!!

10/10/2006 09:46:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Referring back to The Guy Next Door's initial post, and collective wishful thinking....

Its apparant to me such an experiment was done with the subject group all wishing for hardened, arrogant, malcontent and insecure web lurkers. Behold they have conregated here to give you proof!

Why are so many champion followers of this blog also the first to post comments which further validate the rampant prevelance of bitterness and cruelty in the world?

I personally have wished for many impossible things in my life, and was rewarded handsomely. Of course not always the way I envisioned, but always with the intended results. In each case against enormous odds. I won't bore you with the details, try it for yourself.

The best way I can describe it is Love. If you want something, and want it in the back of your mind not the front, if you truly want it because you love it without even trying, and it is founded in love, your chances are improved immeasurably! Try it sometime, without trying.

As far as Guy Next Doors suggestion, I propose we collectively wish for a return to kindness, politeness, manners, consideration and love for one another.

Maybe occam's razor is the sharpest knife in the drawer after all.

10/10/2006 09:56:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The New Yorker magazine has an article in the new October 16th issue:

Paranoid Style
Conspiracy-theory journalism since 9/11 by Nicholas Lemann

Here is the link to the new issue's page:
http://www.newyorker.com/main/magazine/

But what do you know - this is one of the articles not available online.

Seems like a conspiracy to me.

10/10/2006 10:29:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Criminals that Be that control the consolidated media are a conspiracy to destroy all democracies worldwide:

just look at Bilderberg
NAU
9-11 self hit
Trilaterals

New Yorker can blow it out their ass. For punishment, lock them in a room with Shrub and Shrubageddon.

The Bush family are unpunished Nazi collaborators of WWII. That's where their money came from.

The Republican party is a Pedophile Party.

The 'consensus reality' model that they keep peddling is so old hat....
the people in charge was global fascism and RFID chips and total control over everyone.

Nice speech/text:

Portland's Ben Franklin on You Tube!
author: Russ Hallberg
The Ben Fanklin speech was videotaped after the march on Oct 5.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M537MPbgzGs

Original text of entire speech:

In case you don't recognize me, I am Ben Franklin. My inventions include the Franklin stove, lightning rods and bifocal lenses. I founded the University of Pennsylvania. as well as America's first public hospital and first public library. I helped draft the Constitution, which George Bush has referred to as "just a damn piece of paper!"

I edited Thomas Jefferson's first draft of the Declaration of Independence. It pleases me that employees of the Seattle Public Library have passed a resolution through their local union calling for President Bush to resign or be impeached because of the USA Patriot Act, the Iraq war and a host of other issues.

Thomas Jefferson, George Washington and I were not fundamentalist, theocratic Christians. We were Deists. We believed that God is reflected in reason and nature, like Voltaire. Our references to God were universalist, not dogmatic or authoritarian. We would never support the inquisition being carried out in the name of God today. Her name is being raped!

This nation is under the tyranny of the grandson of a Nazi collaborator and financier. The United States Congress forced Prescott Bush to stop openly trading with Nazi Germany in October, 1942. That was nearly a year after the United States had declared war against Germany. Tens of thousands of Untied States soldiers had been killed, captured or wounded before Prescott Bush was reprimanded for trading with the enemy. The New York Times had published articles articles exposing trade with Nazi Germany in the summer of 1942. Congress banned open trade with the enemy only after it was exposed in the press.

June 2003, Scoop Magazine published "Translation from the Polish of the Newsweek article on Prescott Bush and the Nazis":

"The Bush family made a profit from the AUSHWITZ PRISONER'S SLAVE LABOUR. "The Bush family made a profit from the AUSHWITZ PRISONER'S SLAVE LABOUR. Prescott Bush, "Dubya's grandfather, had tight financial connections with the Nazis, thanks to which he multiplied the family's fortune as a banker."

The May/June 2002 issue of Clamor Magazine published: Heir to the Holocaust, Prescott Bush, $1.5 million, and Auschwitz: how the Bush family wealth is linked to the holocaust. By Toby Rogers with Special thanks to John Loftus, Emmy winning journalist, author and current president of the Florida Holocaust Museum.

" There is no question that the Bush family needs to donate at least $1.5 million to the proper holocaust reparation fund. Since Prescott Bush is dead, the only way to compensate is for the main inheritors of his estate to make amends with surviving slaves and the families of slaves who died in Bush and Thyssen's coal mines.

The dynasty's tradition continues with the present Bush Administration. The Supreme Court has ruled against torture and unlawful imprisonment at Guantanamo Bay. Bush's own court determined he is a war criminal. The whole top administration, from Commander in Chief George W Bush on down, is guilty of war crimes.

...

continues at link.

watch the 'performance' at this link at
YouTube
.

10/11/2006 12:13:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous 9:46 - did you actually read any of the material I mentioned? It seems unlikely, since the articles point out very clearly that believing or disbelieving in controlled demolition has little to do with so many other anomalies and bad official stories about 9/11. And remember that Jeff seems to be an agnostic about it, too. I didn't say CD was hooey, just that I've gone back to being an agnostic about it, because there are strong arguments against it. Do you even know what "agnostic" means, or have you spent the last few years exercising your mind only by collecting insults for when someone disagrees with you? Your argument against what I wrote is so weak as to make other people disbelieve in CD, just to disassociate themselves from you...

10/11/2006 12:34:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why don't you go be "agnostic" on

- thermate at WTC7, WTC1, WTC2?

- seismic spikes characteristic of a nuclear explosion as the towers came down?
The US Government's Usage of a Hydrogen Bomb at WTC
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2006/09/346700.shtml

- the architects themselvs saying it was designed to take hits from multiple planes

- the only three steel buildings to ever have fallen in world history were WTC1, WTC2, WTC7--all on one day.

- SILVERSTEIN SAID HE BLEW UP HIS WTC7, WHAT EXACTLY ARE YOU AGNOTSITC ABOUT DIMWIT?

go blow off

10/11/2006 12:44:00 AM  
Anonymous Dicklette said...

Porky Harangue said:

"shit."

Finally, a topic that I can dig my hands into.

So Pork, let's talk shit.

Let's see....ah yes you'll like this one:

Me, sitting alone in a room with 12 retarded guys, dutifully doing the mountain of paperwork that no one will ever read as I hear a muffled 'splat' above me head. I look up &, wonder of wonders, there's a big brown log stuck to the wall above my head. Across the room the soft tittering of the human shit slingshot.

Ooo...ooooo.....there's the always lovely times when you glance over at some poor, handicapped, wheelchairbound individual & notice the pool of gooey shit sauce dripping from the bottom of his wheelchair.

Breathe deep son, it'll put hair on your teeth.

& then you have the lovely Dr. in residence who has some weird enema fetish. He decided that he wanted every client to shit twice a shift. that's 6 times a day pal, & he ordered up more shit inducing medication than you could shake a roll of toiletpaper at.

But, you ask, what warms the cockles of little Dicklettes heart?

I'm glad you asked.

My joy comes with each fresh & eager & totally clueless young soul who comes to us just looking to do the right thing.
Except, in this case, doing the right thing involves oceans & oceans of shit.
So, being the humanitarian that I am, I take the youngun' under my wing & instruct them in the fine art of being human toilet paper.
For their first time, I've found that using the most obnoxiously sweet smelling gum that I can find works best during this initial 'cherry-poppin'' stage. Amazingly, there is something about the mixture of the stench of human feces & the chemical waft of sweetness that just makes the stomach heave.
I've been told it smells like decaying human flesh.
Nevertheless, I've found that it expedites the initial hurling.
It's like a band-aid, best to pull it off quick & then move on.

Ever seen an entire bathroom painted brown with shit Pork ol' pal?
A scratch & sniff Jackson Pollack sensory wonderland for one and all.
&, I gotta tell ya pal, there's nothing like finding turds with teethmarks next to guys with little brown Shitler mustaches to make you realize that the tender mercy of a loving God touches one & all in a special, individual way.

Speaking of God, I know, in my heart of hearts, that the big Enchilada will one day reward me for my selfless service to bowel movements & their after effects, by, one day, allowing me to open some diaper full of post-food and, there in the milky chocolateness, I will find the unmistakable image of our Lord & Savior.
Or maybe a chocolate Pieta pie.

Either way my fortune will be made as I make the leap towards those e-bay millions.

10/11/2006 12:49:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"the only three steel buildings to ever have fallen in world history were WTC1, WTC2, WTC7--all on one day"

Not true, actually. And not true that they could take multiple plane hits. What they were expected to survive was a hit from a 707 (lighter than the planes that actually hit), but the fuel load wasn't taken into consideration.

When you look into the details, and look into analysis by experienced structural engineers, the issue becomes less black-and-white. Hence my agnosticism. And my now agreeing with Jeff that it's a red herring.

But if you don't read enough of the best of both sides of the issue, you will cling to your dogma with way too much emotion and investment in being "right" with your current opinion. And that's what "they" want - a bunch of people trashing each other, instead of looking at the real enemy and working together. Divide and rule once again.

10/11/2006 02:29:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Former BNP (British right-wing party) members arrested for stockpiling major stash of explosives:

http://www.pendletoday.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=13&ArticleID=1806590

TWO Pendle men have appeared before Pennine magistrates accused of having "a master plan" after what is believed to be a record haul of chemicals used in making home-made bombs was found in Colne.

...Robert Cottage (49), of Talbot Street, Colne, and David Bolus Jackson (62), of Trent Road, Nelson...

...Cottage is an ex-BNP member who stood as a candidate in the Pendle Council elections in May.
Mrs Christiana Buchanan, who appeared for the prosecution in Jackson's case, alleged the pair had "some kind of masterplan".
She said a search of Jackson's home had uncovered rocket launchers, chemicals, BNP literature and a nuclear biological suit...



FYI - BNP is a major British right-wing party.

10/11/2006 03:55:00 AM  
Anonymous Saheeh said...

What happened in the history of the Holy Prophet happens in the history of all righteous men who have a message from God. The spirit of evil is ever active and uses men to practise deception by means of highly embellished words and plausible excuses and objections. God permits these things in his plan. it is not for us to complain. Our faith is tested, and we must stand the test steadfastly.

Note 941. Page 327

Yusuf Ali’s commentary to his translation of al Qur’an,

Surah 6, al Anum, the Cattle. Verse 112:

Likewise did We make for every messenger
An enemy – evil ones among men and jinns,
Inspiring each other with flowery discourses
By way of deception. If thy Lord had so planned,
They would not have done it:
So leave them and their intentions alone.

10/11/2006 03:55:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

""the only three steel buildings to ever have fallen in world history were WTC1, WTC2, WTC7--all on one day"

Not true, actually? Yes, true actually.

Put up or shut up. Give us another steel building that fell besides these three, all on one day? Never happened anywhere else.

"Agnosticism" or gullability?

And agnosticism in the face of irrefutable evidence--physical evidence--is only gullability.

Plane fuel my ass! That disappeared long ago as a strategy of disinfo.

Plane fuel doesn't melt steel, never has, never will. Plane fuel doesn't leave moltel pools of steel in the basements of WTC7 and WTC1 and WTC2 for WEEKs AFTER the detonations.

Plane fuel doesn't create seismic spikes that occur seconds INTO the controlled demolition, the short and sharp spike is only characteristic of a nuclear explosion.

Look, the FBI attempted to blow up the WTCs in 1993, and failed. They hired the terrorists as a false flag operation. Part of the public record that an Egyptian ex-military officer Salam was given 1 million dollars to build a bomb and recruit patsies for the FBI, and the FBI then ordered the Egyptian to instead of arrest the perpetrators he had captured for the FBI planning to blow up the WTC, the FBI instructed him to let the attack continue, and they even provided them from government stockpiles the demolitions for the for the van. Salam taped everything as security that he was being set up himself to take the fall.

The U.S. intelligence services are so corrupt that they got away with blowing up the WTC in 1993, and they are still getting away with it in 2006...

Then they got bigger strategies in.

See the links above kindly posted, unlike your empty citationless drivel.

Plane fuel doesn't pulvarize and vaporize concrete into dust from every floor--even the floors that weren't hit, you government troll?

Report back to your masters that the new strategy of appeals to "agnoticism" were seen through immediately....

Why don't you talk about thermate, and the physical sulfurated steel found at WTC7 and WTC1/2? Google up Stephen Jones on that. FEMA even found sulfurated and partially evaporated steel. That's internal demolition through a specific characteri

Why don't you talk about MARVIN BUSH, HEAD OF SECURTY OF THE WTCs, brother of George W. Bush.

Why don't you talk about SILVERSTEIN admitted to conducting a CONTROLLED DEMOLITION ON HIS WTC7 on 9-11. He owned all the WTCs, thus he prerigged his WTC7 to explode on 9-11, and he admits to being a terrorist.

"Agnostic" is a red herring issue because the evidence is so damning and comes right out of their own mouths that they did it.

The issue is getting these bastards out of power because they are state terrorists organizing and letting terrorism occur to consolidate their fascist power, and their own financial wealth is only enhanced through such things.

Case closed, nothing to be agnostic about here, move along...

10/11/2006 04:17:00 AM  
Anonymous Fellow traveler said...

Dear Anonymous

Everything you wrote above is basically true. The point you are missing is that this, RI, is basically a disinformation site. High up the ladder, yes, but still quite the tool of the PTB. Don't waste your breath. You are certainly correct and accurate in what you say. But you a screaming into a vacuum of studied indifference and intricately woven mind and cultural manipulation.

10/11/2006 05:52:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ninth Gate for Dummies

Read my previous posts also...
WHat was Polanski thinking?

Well is not revealimg to much dangerous?
Some say Kubrick paid the price for that.



Sleep is an incomplete death -- unconsciously experienced; death is a complete sleep -- unconsciously experienced; initiation is a self-conscious sleep or "death'' of the lower elements with a fully conscious liberation of the spiritual soul along the pathways of sleep and death.

In sleep the body "dies" imperfectly, for the golden cord remains linked to the slumbering body. If the soul is not weighted with material desire, then a natural quiescence ensues. During the brief hours of nightly sleep, if the karma be favorable the freed spirit-soul may ascend out of the sphere of earth along the invisible magnetic pathways to higher realms. The ascent is instantaneous, followed by the return along identic pathways until the soul once again enters the sleeping body and a new day dawns.

The pathways of sleep traversed night after night constitute an unconscious journey along the routes of initiation. Such momentary and unrecognized contact during sleep is not wasted; the very repetition of the selfsame process acts as an invisible spur to the ordinary person. If the aspirations continue and the life is made purer, faint impressions of beauty and grandeur will penetrate the soul, intuitions will manifest, and the aspirant will find benediction sweeping into his days through nightly communion with higher spheres.

Death is the following of the same processes of sleep, only perfectly so. The body is cast off permanently and dissipates; the golden cord is withdrawn, and the soul, freed of its terrestrial elements, enters the spheres of temporary purgation. Liberated and cleansed of earthly dross, the soul ascends to its spiritual parent, the higher self, and in peace and bliss undreamed of pursues the identic journey of sleep. In each of the mansions of space, a stop is made, shorter or longer depending upon the links of affinity formerly made through past experience of the spiritual soul until, strengthened by divine contact, it once again treads the ancient pathway, and a child is born on earth.

Thus in death the age-old routes of initiation are followed by the spiritual monad in conscious recognition, but as yet in unconscious appreciation by the ordinary human soul.

A human being is many-sided: he has within him a divine monad, a spiritual soul, and a human soul which works through his vital-astral-physical nature. We must guard against the lower gaining dominion over the higher and must watch carefully, particularly in discussion of these holy themes, lest we become so fascinated by their beauty and intellectual splendor, that we forget their essential worth -- that of ethics. Unless an individual has made ethics the foundation of his character, his heart and mind will be continually shaken by the storms of desire.

Those who care for little beyond the immediate will have scant attraction to deeper things, but those who have begun to think and feel intuitively may find themselves irresistibly drawn to the ancient wisdom. However, to those already stirring from the sleep of matter, warning is repeatedly given against entertaining the notion that initiation is just around the corner. One must defend the heart against selfish desire for so-called occult powers as one would defend oneself against the bite of a serpent. The initiations referred to, more particularly in the previous chapter, are not described but only alluded to as hints of what some day the worthy disciple may find himself fortunate enough to experience.

In summation, over and over the journey of initiation is traversed: in sleep imperfectly, in death more perfectly; nightly by the soul in sleep, periodically by the soul in death. Unconsciously undergone, nature thus rehearses that which the soul must one day follow with will and consciousness fully active. This latter process is the journey of initiation: the deliberate paralysis of terrestrial influence followed by the self-perceptive journey through every plane and sphere of the cosmos.

In his Esoteric Tradition, Purucker elaborates:

The purpose of the passing of the Monad postmortem through the various planetary chains is to allow it to free itself on each such planetary chain of the integument or habiliment or vehicle which belongs to the vital essence of such planetary chain. It is only thus that the Monad strips off from itself one after the other the different "coatings" with which it has enwrapped itself during its long evolutionary journey; and thus when it has freed itself from all the seven "coatings" it is then ready, because freed and in its pure and "unclothed" state, to enter into its own native spiritual Home. When the return journey towards Earth's planetary chain begins, the Monad then passes through all these same seven planets, but in reverse order to that by which it had ascended through them, and in each such planet that it visits . . . it picks up and re-assumes or clothes itself in the lifeatoms forming the "coatings" that it had previously dropped or cast off in each one of these seven planets respectively.-- 2:869-70
So important is this journey that the Greater Mysteries dealt almost entirely with processes of the mystic death. As stated in the previous chapter, the fourth initiation comprised a partial descent into lower spheres, accompanied by a partial ascent into superior spheres. The soul as yet has not developed sufficient strength to withstand the full revelation of the universe. There is a Babylonian legend which points to a Mystery-teaching. Ishtar descends to the underworld and, arriving at the gates of Arallu (Hades), stands beautiful and regal. The archaic decree, however, demands that none may enter the dread precincts of the underworld who are not bare of garment or jewel.

Therefore at each of the successive gates through which Ishtar must pass, the keeper divests her of some garment or ornament: first her crown, then her ear-rings, then her necklace, then the ornaments from her bosom, then her many-jeweled girdle, then the spangles from her hands and feet, and lastly her loin-cloth. -- Will Durant, The Story of Civilization 1:238
Free and pure she enters the Land of No Return where her sister, Ereshkigal, holds sway. Full of jealousy, she sends against Ishtar sixty diseases. Having passed the tests of the lower world, Ishtar retraces her steps through the seven gates, receiving in reverse order the garments and jewels which she had cast aside on her descending journey, and finally, as she ascends into the regions of light, Ishtar is adorned with the seventh jewel, the crown of spiritual glory.

10/11/2006 07:45:00 AM  
Anonymous Shrubageddon said...

Richard.....that was nothing short of AWESOME!!!

How do we square your blunt, yet genuine and honest reality, with Anony's grand admonition that all we need is LOVE?

The juxtaposition is rather stark, wouldn't you say. As if love keeps people from eating and flinging shit. Sounds like more shit to eat and fling, if you ask me.

I dig you comment about being human toilet paper. In your job, you meant it quite literally......in my job, I am also human toilet paper, figuratively. The only consolation is that I'm not alone......everyone who posts here is human toilet paper, whether they like it, or not....including the multiple manifestations of Mojo Filter and Anony.

So, maybe we should visualize a world where there is no need for human toilet paper, figuratively, and literally.

Let's Draw & Quarter Mr. Whipple once and for all!!

10/11/2006 10:58:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Fellow Travler" - I suppose you can prove that EVERY blog, website, etc. is an evil illiminati disinformation entity, and so all we should all go back to reading Aristotle in the original Greek? Or was Aristotle a disinfo agent too, who coded instrutions for knocking down WTC?

Or - can you name a source of real info?

My own opinion is that those who immediately proclaim that all those who disagree with them must be "PTB black ops disinfo agents" are themselves unwitting disinfo agents who have the effect of discrediting non-mainstream media versions of reality through their refusal to drop their dogma and whose writings and speech are the same as the kid who puts his fingers in his ears and yells, "Ya ya ya ya ya - I CAN'T HEAR YOU!".

10/13/2006 06:08:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yeah, and Mulla Nasrudin was a known medieval disinfo agent, even though he may not have actually existed physically.

Mulla Nasrudin was seen sprinkling something around (I can't remember what it was). Someone asked him, "Why are you doing that? He replied, "To keep the tigers away." The inquirier replied, "But there aren't any tigers around here." Nasrudin quipped, "See, it works!"

Once you've expressed an honest opinion, and the "I-see-disinfo-agents-everywhere" people do their hatchet job on you, you will see more clearly, too...

10/13/2006 06:12:00 AM  
Anonymous wolfenstein said...

The home of the infamous european toxic clan, psycho urban fraggers that pawn the virtual return to castle wolfenstein enemy territory battlefields.

7/19/2010 11:00:00 PM  
Anonymous justpub said...

Just Pub, a dumb return to castle wolfenstein enemy territory comic strip by feuersturm.

7/19/2010 11:01:00 PM  

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