Thursday, November 16, 2006

That Body Snatchers Moment



Accentuate the positive, destroy all the negatives,
Before the black mass media get a hold of them
- T Bone Burnett


There are many moments, but the one I mean is nearly the last. Kevin McCarthy's already run into the traffic, crying "Look! You fools, you're in danger!" He's at the police station, exhausted and distraught, telling his story to naturally incredulous officers who believe they're babysitting a maniac. Then a message arrives that an overturned truck from Santa Mira has spilled strange, giant pods over the road. In a flash the cops realize that they've been hearing the truth - the crazy truth - and begin the ball rolling to save the world.

I love that. I love the look on McCarthy's anguished face. It's not, it's over. It's at last it can begin. The disheveled kook is suddenly the most credible person in the room.

We've had more than a few of those moments this century, when a story breaks and bridges the disconnect between the world as we know it and the world as most presume it. A privileged gay hooker in the White House, for instance. British Special Forces in Basra, dressed as Arabs, shooting up a police station. A naturalized American waging a false-flag bombing campaign in the Philippines, escorted to US sanctury by federal authorities. The death of David Kelly. Sibel Edmonds' gag order, and the WTF? conditions upon George Bush's testimony before the 9/11 commission. Usually the news is quickly changed, ignored or papered-over. Sometimes, as with Michael Meiring, it's met with blanket silence by American media, and the silence itself becomes a kind of confirmation.

Daniel Hopsicker may be having one of those moments.

As anyone who's followed his investigation of Florida's 9/11 crime scene will know, he's researched Mohamed Atta's connections to a protected international network of drugs, guns and money-laundering. Atta's "brothers" were German cocaine playboys mixed up with Russian mafia, not Saudi fundamentalists. One German of whom Hopsicker has written is Wolfgang Bohringer.

From his Welcome to Terrorland:

Wolfgang was instrumental in bringing another of Atta's German associates to Florida, a pilot named "Stephan," who has done jail time in Germany, was on parole when he came to the US, and thus not supposed to be flying. But "being connected means never having to say you're sorry," and while regular German flight students struggle to obtain the necessary visas, Wolfgang and Stephan had inside connections which smoothed their progress.

Last night I received this is the mail from Hopsicker:

BREAKING NEWS: FBI Terror Alert in South Pacific for Wolfgang Bohringer; German pilot was first identified as "close associate" of Mohamed Atta in The MadCowMorningNews

Wolfgang Bohringer, a German pilot identified more than two years ago as one of Mohamed Atta's closest associates in Florida in the MadCowMorningNews and "Welcome to TERRORLAND," is the subject of an FBI terror alert in the South Pacific.

A spate of recent news stories in the MadCowMorningNews has drawn attention to Bohringer's suspicious activities on tiny Fanning Island in the South Pacific, where he had announced an intention to establish a flight school that only trained pilots to fly DC3's... on an island with no electricity and barely a hundred inhabitants more than a thousand miles from a city of any size.

The unwanted scrutiny apparently caused Bohringer to flee aboard his yacht.
Tonight the Associated Press is reporting that U.S. authorities have "uncovered a plot to set up a flight training school in Kiribati and suspect the man behind it may have had links to September 11 mastermind Mohamed Atta."

Even though no one is crediting us for first reporting and identifying Mohamed Atta's German associates in Florida, it is still very satisfying to have finally broken a story from the enormous 'pile' of suppressed news from the terrorist's base of operations in Venice FL which we have been alone in reporting for almost four years.

Headlines at this hour include:

"FBI raises terror alarm about South Pacific flying school"—International Herald Tribune;

"Man with Sept 11 links set up flight school" — The Australian.

"Terror suspect linked to Kiribati flight-school plot says FBI"—New Zealand Herald


Let's see where the Bohringer story goes. And let's credit Hopsicker with being several years ahead of it.

61 Comments:

Anonymous xsicx said...

I'm dancing a jig for good ol Danny Boy right now.

Bravo.

I hope the nuts and bolts of this end of the 9/11 hydra make it into the msp of america

11/16/2006 01:15:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The patsy distraction ramps up.

Controlled demolition of three WTC buildings is proven by basic physics. The Inside Job is a given.

While Hopsinger has been dogging the patsy network, it is probably being highlighted by Associated Press to slow the 9/11 truth movement through reinforcing the Atta and The Boys end of it.

Patsies are still patsies.
Stay with the inside job story when you look at Hopsinger's work.

11/16/2006 02:34:00 PM  
Anonymous Harker said...

Been following this one via Dave Emory for 'bout a month or so- he's had a couple excellent interviews with Hops; they may still be available at
http://spitfirelist.com/ftr.html

What's up with the Howard Stern wannabe Mancow Mueller appearing on Alex Jones's show promotting a Fox News special he's hosting Saturday, Nov. 18? Apparently, according to the Jones show, Alex's partner Kevin Smith will be appearing on Mancow's Fox special alongside a New York City fireman. Strange Brew.

11/16/2006 02:40:00 PM  
Anonymous Proteus said...

I remember how fervently Mr. Hopsicker was attacked by the "truth movement." He provided verifiable evidence of the seedy doings of the underbelly of capitalism. He said nothing of "pods" or reptilian supermen and that apparently made him a disinfo agent. While Ruppert was was telling us to forget about 9/11 (of course, AFTER his book was published and the profits made) and pushing the dinosaur/decaying tree/biotic yarn of Peak oil for those who directly profitted from that tragic day, Daniel was outing the root of the problem. It's all about stealing. To the mighty Olympians, we are just characters in Meier's 'Civ' games. It seems that the farther we go to separate ourselves from humanity through material transgressions, the more inhumane we become.

Organized crime has been legitimized and co-opted through capitalism. Organizations like the IMF and World Bank whore out entire nations on behalf of corporations by propping up coconut candidates in the banana republics. If this fails, they use blackmail in the form of vice. If this fails, they call on "heavies" like Bohringer and Khashoggi (The Khashoggis and Al-Fayeds intermarried much the way of the Walker and Bush clans).

There have always been "useful idiots" like Zionists, Neo-Cons (formerly Neo-Liberals), Wahabbis, the IRA, Tamils, or Al Qaeda (the western intelligence organized crime database) to hide behind. These are much like the multinational subsidiaries the Anglo industrialists hid behind while funding Hitler and the Bolsheviks.

But wave a flag, show a picture of an eagle with a tear in its eye, creatively concoct fairy tales in textbooks and, lo and behold, here we are wallowing in a self-destructive costruct.

Thank you for bringing us some light today, Jeff. There is always hope, we just have tell the truth and create alternatives to non-sustainable insanity.

"Flies are buzzing round my head
Vultures circling the dead
Picking up every last crumb
The big fish eat the little ones
The big fish eat the little ones
Not my problem, give me some

You can try the best you can
If you try the best you can
The best you can is good enough
If you try the best you can
If you try the best you can
The best you can is good enough

This one's optimistic
This one went to market
This one just came out of the swamp
This one dropped a payload
Fodder for the animals
Living on animal farm

If you try the best you can
If you try the best you can
The best you can is good enough
If you try the best you can
If you try the best you can
The best you can is good enough

I'd really like to help you, man
I'd really like to help you, man
Nervous messed up marionettes
Floating around on a prison ship

If you try the best you can
If you try the best you can
The best you can is good enough
If you can try the best you can
If you try the best you can
Dinosaurs roaming the Earth
Dinosaurs roaming the Earth
Dinosaurs roaming the Earth"

- 'Optimistic' from Radiohead

11/16/2006 02:41:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jeff said:

"Let's see where the Bohringer story goes. And let's credit Hopsicker with being several years ahead of it."

And we know it goes right into Henry Kissinger, who was guest speaker at the 'international education' academy in Germany, of which Atta was connected to as well. And of course Kissinger was the very person that Bush attempted to implant in the "investigation" of 9-11 (TWO YEARS after the fact with many other caveats for the whitewash), when Kissinger instead should be investigated for 9-11.

Instead, Bush had to settle for the "Kean Commission" instead of the Kissinger Commission.

Hardly mattered there.

Kean had business connections with the brother in law of Osama bin Laden--through Amareda Hess oil corporation.

And Bush never was asked by his coverup dog and pony show why he was close friends with two separate groups of terrorists involved in 9-11, Al-Arain and Al-Amoudi.

While we're congratulating Hopsicker on noticing the Constitution snatchers, a summary of other Hopsicker information entitled World Beware: The US as rogue state! BUSH personally MEETS FALSE FLAGGER SIDE OF 9-11, notes among other things that Grover Nordquist has a 9-11 terrorism contact.

Grover Nordquist, Republican operative, seems one of the AL-QUEDA MIDDLEMAN for the Bush Administration through his connections to Al-Amoudi, simultaneously a "Pentagon recruiter for Muslim clerics" and his picture found in the Hamburg cell of Al-Queda, standing with Belfas.

The Al-Arain side is even closer to Bush personally. Bush himself meets the Al-Arain side of things, and after 9-11 has a personal 'prayer meeting' with Al-Amoudi side.

Pictures at link.

Thus, Bush Administration officials met with Virginia cell and Tampa, Florida cell networks of 'Al-Queda' personally--the 'official terrorists' linked to 9/11, who go back to Bush close friends like SAMI AL-ARIAN and ABDURAHMAN AL-AMOUDI.

Bush meets with Al-Amoudi after the 9-11 events.

Cheney cancels the Al-Arain visit to the White House one month before 9-11.

BUSH/AL-ARAIN photoed together.

BUSH/AL-AMOUDI photoed together.

There are photographs of Bush operative Al-Amoudi, with Belfas of the 'Al-Queda' Hamburg cell.

Sami al-Arian and Abdurahman al-Amoudi have been photographed with the President and met with Administration Officials post-9/11, yet both have links to the September 11 plot.

Their 'background' as operatives was well known as early as 1996, and only one month before 9-11, George W. Bush thanked Al-Arian's wife for a book she sent him, expressing "regret" about how her son was being treated.

"Al-Arian's appearance at the White House... The group that included Al-Arian was scheduled to be briefed by Vice President Cheney, but Cheney canceled. That morning, the Jerusalem Post had run a front-page article headlined, "Cheney to host pro-terrorist Muslim group." [as well:] Records showed that Al-Arian was admitted to the White House at least once during the Clinton administration, the official said"... "The [al-Arian] family said that Bush gave their lanky son, Abdullah, the nickname "Big Dude."'...

Hopsicker mentions a lawsuit of 2002 that a guy files against Al-Arian--the Tampa, FL 9-11 cell connection. That is most interesting. Why is it interesting? Well, because Bush is hard and fast friends with Al-Arain.

The busy Mr. AL-ARIAN had contacts not only with Mohamed Atta and al-Qaeda, the MadCowMorningNews has learned, but also with Karl Rove and the Bush Administration, through REPUBLICAN INSIDER GROVER NORDQUIST, who is a close friend of Karl Rove, and who was hired by Al-Amoudi as the front for him.

And back to Jeb.

JEB BUSH'S ROGUE STATE OF FLORIDA, TERROR CAPITAL OF THE WORLD (TAMPA, FL): "Fox News was the first to report that three days after the [9/11] attack Abdurahaman Al-amoudi, president of the American Muslim Council, was invited to a prayer service with the president... "

However, from the safety of their Tampa offices, Mr. Shallah and Mr. Al-Arian operated a terrorist organization, raising funds, recruiting terrorists and bringing them into the country, devising terrorist strategies, and actually directing specific terrorist attacks -- all while being invited U.S. military's intelligence headquarters at nearby McDill Air Force Base to give assessments on the Middle East..."

AL-ARIAN's THE BARAKA GROUP (dissolved Sept. 28, 2001!) & AL-QUEDA/false flaggers financing claimed by John Loftus: The former Justice Department prosecutor of Nazis, John Loftus's "accusations against Al-Arian go even further than links with Jihad. Loftus said he believes Al-Arian had a link to the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. [Ex-US Department of Justice Nazi Prosecutor] Loftus said Al-Arian was involved with a group called Baraka that he alleges laundered money to support the suicide pilots (sic) as they [pretended to be] trained at Florida airports."

"My sources keep me very current on Al-Arian," Loftus said. "I had very high security clearances from all U.S. intelligence and NATO agencies when I worked for the attorney general... Loftus said he has evidence to link [Islamic] Jihad and Al-Arian (Bush's close friend) to the al Qaeda terrorist organization, which has been blamed for the Sept. 11 attacks. In addition, Loftus said evidence suggests Al-Arian may have personally played a part in the execution of the attacks.

"It is a matter of record that an organization known as the Baraka group laundered the money to the skyjackers of Sept. 11. Sami Al-Arian incorporated Baraka in the state of Florida, which was dissolved on Sept. 28, 2001."

"Had the government thrown Al-Arian in jail, Loftus said, many acts of terrorism could have been prevented, even the most notorious of them all: the attacks on America... "Al-Arian is connected to al-Qaida, Loftus said, because the same Saudi groups that donated money to WISE and ICP — the same groups which were raided by the FBI last month — also had connection to Mohammed Atta,..."

"John Loftus, ex-DOJ official: About a year-and-a-half ago, people in the intelligence community came and said-guys like Alamoudi and Sami al-Arian and other terrorists weren't being touched because they'd been ordered not to investigate the cases, not to prosecute them." "But, who was it that fixed the cases?... the answer is coming out in a very strange [though logical] place. What Alamoudi and al-Arian have in common is a guy named Grover Norquist... He is the guy that was hired by Alamoudi to head up the Islamic institute and he's the registered agent for Alamoudi, personally, and for the Islamic Institute.

"The rumpled, balding figure [Al-Arian] was spotted darting into the offices of Republican power broker Grover Norquist last July... Sami Al-Arian emerged more than two hours later... Al-Arian was visiting the Islamic Institute, a Muslim outreach group cofounded by Norquist and housed within his office suite."

[Norquist is close friend of Karl Rove.]

"In 1998... the Islamic Institute [of Norquist/Al-Arian], the AMC [al-Amoudi] and Al-Arian [Islamic Institute/Grover Norquist] were all working together."

KARL ROVE, AL-QUEDA CONTACT IN WHITE HOUSE, THROUGH CLOSE FRIEND GROVER NORQUIST: "Grover Norquist's best friend is Karl Rove, the White House chief of staff, and apparently Norquist was able to fix things [through Karl Rove, so that 9-11 covert op of false flagger (drug dealer) connections 'performed' at the Tampa, FL and San Diego, CA flight schools were allowed to continue as the laying down of red herrings pre-9-11 for important post-9-11 blame narrative to be useful to invade Afghanistan and Iraq--and other countries.]."...

AND IN VIRGINIA:

ABDURAHMAN AL-AMOUDI, AL-QUEDA CONTACT [W.A.M.Y. VICE PRESIDENT; PRESIDENT OF THE AMERICAN MUSLIM FOUNDATION; MEETINGS WITH HAMBURG CELL OF AL-QUEDA AND MEETINGS WITH BUSH, AND A PENTAGON CONSULTANT:

"Al-Arian is not the only Islamist zealot who has gained access to Bush and his inner circle. Consider, for example, Abdurahman Alamoudi, the founder of the American Muslim Council... In October 2000, he was cheered at a pro-Palestinian rally in Washington, D.C., when he declared: "We are all supporters of Hamas. . . I am also a supporter of Hezbollah." Three months later he was in Beirut for a terrorist summit, along with leaders of Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, and Al Qaeda."

Muslim activist, Abdurahman Muhammed Alamoudi, president of the American Muslim Foundation, played a key role in the chaplain program, publicly boasting to reporters that he was first person authorized by the U.S. military to recruit Islamic clerics"... "Abdurahman Alamoudi, a consultant to the Pentagon on the chaplain program for more than a decade, is now accused of helping Osama bin Laden and Hamas.

Court documents filed late Wednesday night claim Alamoudi has provided "financial support to Hamas" and "financial support to fronts for al-Qaida." One of the groups allegedly tied to Alamoudi is a charity that gave a Virginia post office as its address. [!!! WAMY World Association of Muslim Youth, an organization that actual law abiding countries already have banned as a known terrorist front. In the United States, it is run by a bin Laden family member, & it was allowed to continue and---!!! &...] Alamoudi was the charity's vice president." "Who founded it? Abdullah bin Laden, Osama bin Laden's nephew.

Evidence recently obtained by prosecutors from German police files show[s]... that [Pentagon connected] Alamoudi also had meetings in the fall of 2000 with Mohammed Belfas, an elder from the Islamic community in Hamburg who had multiple ties to key figures in the September 11 terror attacks. Belfas—who once shared an apartment with Ramzi bin al-Shibh,..."After the September 11 attacks, German police raided Belfas's Hamburg apartment and... discovered multiple connections between the two men and several leaders of the September 11 plot, including bin al-Shibh and Mohamed Atta, the ringleader of the hijackers.""[Belfas'] recently discovered dealings with Alamoudi are likely to get new attention. [THIS STORY WAS SQUASHED.]

Among the evidence seized from Belfas's [Hamburg 'Al-Queda' hangout] apartment is a picture showing Belfas and Budiman meeting with Alamoudi at his office in Arlington." 'New attention' was not forthcoming. This Newsweek article is the press's sole mention of the connection between al-Amoudi, Belfas and Budiman.

Once the backgrounds of Belfas and Budiman are examined, it is easy to see why: it shows they were doing more than monitoring the 'terrorists.

They were meeting with them in the Pentagon, at Florida military bases, and through White House insiders as well who kept the loyal FBI off the terror networks trail.

The 9-11 terror network trail does lead to the Bush White House: both Bush and Karl Rove.

PENTAGON CONTACT AL-AMOUDI--THE GUY WHO MEETS WITH BUSH MULTIPLE TIMES--HAS AT LEAST SIX PHONE NUMBERS OF U.S.-ACCUSED GLOBAL TERRORISTS ON HIS 'PHONE SPEED DIAL,' COURT SUIT POINTS OUT:] Also ringing alarms: Alamoudi's Palm Pilot, which the government claims included the names and numbers of six designated global terrorists. The government also alleges Alamoudi had a Swiss bank account and $2.2 million"...

AL-AMOUDI'S AL-QUEDA CONTACTS ARE ON OFFICIAL WATCH LIST OF FBI, THOUGH NOTHING HAPPENS: "Both Budiman and Belfas are among 370 names included on a detailed FBI list of people sought for questioning in the investigation of the Sept. 11 attacks on New York and Washington. The list was released last month by Finnish banking authorities. Budiman is identified on the list as a U.S. contact person for Atta, the presumed ringleader of the 19 hijackers. Belfas is identified as a contact person for bin Laden, the prime U.S. suspect in the attacks...

[despite there being:

Al-Queda's Belfas in Hamburg-->Al-Amoudi/Virginia WAMY/Nordquist/Rove-->Bush link!!

and a

Al-Queda Tampa offices-->Al-Arian-->Bush link!! ]

11/16/2006 03:05:00 PM  
Blogger ImpeccableLiberalCredentials said...

proteus's comment

"Organized crime has been legitimized and co-opted through capitalism. Organizations like the IMF and World Bank whore out entire nations on behalf of corporations by propping up coconut candidates in the banana republics. If this fails, they use blackmail in the form of vice."

Makes me feel like I can post this as being topical: Aceh elections need more monitors. There has been a lot of organized, determined Disinfo about Aceh, from drugs, to burned churches, and Shariah law being applied to foreign relief workers. Democrats need to pay attention to what the republicans, through the International Republican Institute, are doing to interfere with emeerging democracies like Indonesia.

I hope this leads to a few "body snatchers moments", too

11/16/2006 03:36:00 PM  
Blogger Claymoremind said...

This looks like a salvage operation - trying to salvage the myth that the planes were flown by poorly trained, incompetent patsies. They know the wheels are coming off their fable, but not to worry - the new, "seachange" congress will make nice with Cheney and it'll be Business as Usual.


The skyline of New York

East Side, West Side,
all around the town.
To hell with three thousand people,
Time to bring three Towers down.
Let's have a war on terror,
Let's go pop ol' Saddam's cork!
To consolidate all the power,
a Reichstag fire in New York.


East Side, West Side,
all around the town,
The streets are full of asbestos
from the buildings on the ground.
George is in Sarasota
A goat tale reading world class dork.
The Secret Service ain't worried
'cause the target was New York


East Side, West Side,
all around the town.
Silverstien planted the charges,
Dov's remote planes flew around.
Cheney stopped the Air Force
to get Halliburton their pork,
We know your plan worked fantastic
on the skyline of New York.

11/16/2006 05:10:00 PM  
Blogger ericswan said...

My personal opinion is that chemtrails are going to deliver the final blow. The planet has been sold to aliens and we're part of the largesse that goes with the deal. Now how do we keep all the little piggies home huh?

11/16/2006 09:19:00 PM  
Blogger Wesley said...

Interesting how the MSM coverage (what little there is) is content to talk about the Bohringer setup as a "terrorist flight school". It's obvious from his connections that the more likely business designation is contraband courier -- I doubt the "new Pearl Harbor" folks would be quite that literal. A flight school is just a good excuse to put down a convenient, unwatched airstrip.

I guess for most people the linkage of drug running to terrorism is still a source of cognitive dissonance. Too bad.

11/16/2006 10:25:00 PM  
Blogger Wesley said...

BTW -- Two threads of likely disinfo here, in my opinion.

(1) "patsy" as a theme is evocative of Oswald and will set off tinfoil hat alarm bells for many readers from the general public who stumble along to this site while researching the case. Let's leave controlled demolition aside for the moment and focus on the connections Hopsicker is finding.

(2) Chemtrails? Aliens? Wrong post, dude.

11/16/2006 10:40:00 PM  
Anonymous James O'Neill said...

What the work of Hopsicker reveals is that the real history of 9/11 is vastly more complicated than was even hinted at in the 9/11 Commission report.
Unfortunately, many of Hopsicker's supporters ,eg Dave Emory of FTR and Joseph Cannon of Cannonfire use Hopsicker's focus on the organised crime links (among other links) of Atta and company to discredit the controlled demolition of the WTC towers.
In my view there is no necessary contradiction. There were obviously several agendas at play on 9/11 and different parts of the plot were used to advance those agendas.
It is part of the sorry state of contemporary America that these issues are not discussed in academia, where to do so invites dismissal (Jones, Barrett, Wood for example) or the mainstream media which is hoopelessly compromised by its own links (via cross-ownership) to the very people and organisations that have benefitted from 9/11.
I am awaiting with great interest Peter Dale Scott's new book 'The Road to 9/11' as he has for a long time written about what he calls 'deep politics', i.e. the links between government, intelligence agencies, organised crime, drug running, money laundering etc.
Daniel Hopsicker commonly uses the phrase 'being connected means not having to say sorry' to which I would add not being held accountable. That has been true at least since 22 November 1963.
Don't hold your breath expecting any change soon.

11/16/2006 10:54:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Chemtrails? Aliens? Wrong post, dude."

Not so fast. McDill AFB, CENTCOM, is the link.

This is both where Al-Alain and Al-Amoudi had contacts in Florida the same moment they were funding Al-queda cells and working with the Pentagon.

This is additionally a 'chemtrails' connection because McDill AFB (may be MacDill) has a huge "refueling tanker division" last time I checked which may be used for the chemtrail operation as well.

And Florida's MacDill/CENTCOM is additionally overlapped with what this guy says--it's the place running the 9-11 "terror drills to hit the White House, Pentagon, World Trade Center, and Chicago Tower."

24.Sep.2006 14:40
9.11 investigation
WHISTLEBLOWER! Pre-911 war games hit WTC , White House, Sears Tower, Pentagon with hijacks
author: repost of Lauro "LJ" Chavez

I feel that I should speak my mind and Ill tell you some things that I have not told many people at all. From 1995 till 2002 I was a Sergeant in the United States Army. Not only this, but I was stationed at United States Central Command, which is located at MacDill AFB in Tampa Florida. I was on active duty when 9-11 happened. In the days prior to the tragedies, we were involved in many exercises. Some of these exercises included the scenarios of hijacked planes crashing into, our building the world trade center, the White House, Sears Tower, and the Pentagon. These drills or exercises as we called them, where classified Top Secret.

Having a Top Secret rated clearance I was dumbfounded that they would ever push a training exercise above the level of Secret.


Sergeant Lauro "LJ" Chavez, 9/11 Whistle Blower Speaks Out to the Editor of the Cincinnati Post

...

So, a lot goes down through MacDill AFB on 9-11 on many levels.

Don't be surprised if they have a potential chemtrail connection as well.

11/16/2006 10:57:00 PM  
Anonymous Dr. Bombay said...

I have always thought that if you
could get Larry Silverstien
sworn in and under oath, a good
prosecuter would crack him like a
bad walnut. Christ! Is there anyone
left in this country with any
BALLS?! At least Jim Garrison tried
to go after the people who took
out Kennedy.

11/17/2006 01:33:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Interesting how the MSM coverage (what little there is) is content to talk about the Bohringer setup as a "terrorist flight school". It's obvious from his connections that the more likely business designation is contraband courier ...

I guess for most people the linkage of drug running to terrorism is still a source of cognitive dissonance. Too bad.


I think you got it, Wesley.

11/17/2006 05:38:00 AM  
Blogger plectic said...

Hey Jeff, did you know that the body snatchers film was a metaphorical critique of the communist witch hunts of the same era?

11/17/2006 05:52:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This,
strangely,
is such welcome news.

Patsy? I see no patsy here. Patsy is for the simple minded.

It's not eve so much about bringing to justice (snort!) as it is being able to bear witness.

I watched, from up 5th Ave., as it happened, and I hope I can watch as it is gradually revealed "why" it happened.

But justice? The best I can do is wish a wicked case of piles on Kissinger. Our epoch's Dr. Strangelove

11/17/2006 06:25:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous One,Jeff,you nailed it pretty good,"That Body Snatchers Moment".That is the same feeling I have when I try to talk to the 90%+ around this place of late.What ever it is they are pumpen to this joint,is fucken kicken in.I'm not afraid to say it,Erick Swan I'm in your camp.I would keep an eye on that Temple Mount area,just have a feeling,later.

11/17/2006 06:29:00 AM  
Anonymous Venice Indian said...

Fascinating. If you google "wolfgang bohringer" either in their web, news, or usenet searches, it seems that this "low level terror alert" exists only in the minds of the mainstream New Zealand and Austrailian press (reminiscent of Fletcher Prouty's reading the Oswald bios in the New Zealand newspaper almost-before-it-happened). A Shainghai newspaper also pops up. Apparently "the FBI" (as the reports call "it") only intended this to be a super-modified-limited-hangout Kevin McCarthy moment.

Maybe at least now Hopsicker can get some donations from down-under to pay his lawyer to depose Makram Chams. 30 years ago my friends and I used to stop for drinks at what would one day become Chams' 7-11 after playing basketball at the Venice courts around the corner. I see now on Hopsicker's website that its been boarded up ever since 9/11--a pocket of urban blight in downtown Venice.

11/17/2006 10:11:00 AM  
Blogger Tsoldrin said...

Hopsickers' Flying Circus was one of the first 9/11 documentaries I watched and imo one of the best made. Glad to see some of his work being born out. It's also noteworthy that as far as I know, this all meshes with the tid bits that we know of Sibel Edmonds' story.

As far as controlled demolition goes,I think that idea was one of the worst things to happen to the Truth Movement. Like pods and holograms it is exceedingly unlikely and thus extremely difficult for the masses to swallow. Do I believe it? I certainly think it's possible, even likely, but you know what? I'm not the one that needs convincing. I'm already well aware of what 'they' are capable of.

If someone told me Elite sit around dropping live babies into a french fryer it would not surprise me at all. It's the ones who need convincing that will balk at outlandish theories (true or not).

Also, I'm not an expert on demolition and really, neither is almost anyone else. Therefore it boils down to a 'who do you believe' argument.

Beyond that, what does proof of controlled demolition prove anyway, other than there was controlled demolition? It certainly doesn't prove who did it.

No, I think the entire CD argument has been another blemish on this movement. Not only does it make the idea that much harder to believe for the average citizen, it also makes it that much harder for anyone with power to become entangled with the idea for fear of being painted as a looney, and of course it provides a rather large target for debunkers to aim at and thereby draw attention from a good deal of solid evidence that everyone can not only see and verify but also understand without relying to unknown experts.

Finally, why would the burden be on us to prove any 'alternate' theory? The burden is on THEM to prove theirs is correct, which is, of course, impossible.

11/17/2006 04:34:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

You're right, Tsoldrin, but we can prove what they're capable of, thereby planting the first seed of dissonance in the unblemished, highly polished minds of the political innocents. It doesn't really matter what segment of the curtain is ripped away--the naked truth will (eventually) set them free (to wallow in these seas like we...)

11/17/2006 04:44:00 PM  
Anonymous humblenotry said...

Unbelievable. Off the cuff this terrorist organization being known to have existed in Florida, USA gives me the indication that intellectuals internationally have been blaming the US government for the spread of global terrorism. That the War on Terrorism is being fought on the wrong front. It's like how could the U.S. be so complacent with the evidence at hand. The U.S. military should have marched into Washington D.C.

Truely mentioning this to most Americans, in my opinion, will possibly get me on a Homeland Security watch list. Out of touch with the reality at hand. I'm probably on some federal list anyway so I'd welcome the nosy company. They may learn something from me and I can reference people who are miraculously interested to this Blog as well. I thank all the posters on RI for all the work you've done.

11/17/2006 04:47:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey Harker who posted at 2:40pm,

I'm Harker and until now I thought I was the only Harker who posted on this site. Is Harker your first name like mine or your last? We could be related. Are you from California or the Midwest?

Anyway... Kevin Smith appearing on Mancow's FOX special is strange indeed. FOX will probably use this opportunity to ridicule and discredit. Will the fireman be talking about stange explosion noises or will he be used to completely undermine everything Smith presents in regards to what happened at Ground Zero?

Harker

11/17/2006 05:46:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Tsoldrin is the one out of touch with reality for saying this:

"As far as controlled demolition goes,I think that idea was one of the worst things to happen to the Truth Movement. Like pods and holograms it is exceedingly unlikely and thus extremely difficult for the masses to swallow. Beyond that, what does proof of controlled demolition prove anyway, other than there was controlled demolition? It certainly doesn't prove who did it. No, I think the entire CD argument has been another blemish on this movement. Not only does it make the idea that much harder to believe for the average citizen,..."

Wow! Some 'points list' you're working from there--empty comments, empty aspersions, and fluff, Ts.

You stuff a lot of fluff assumptions in your mind, strange. Allow me clear a few things up for you. There is untidy evidence you ignore:

1. the seismographic spike occurring before the WTC1 and WTC2 collapse. When Christopher Bollyn used to work for American Free Press (before the editor was threatened, so the editor fired him for breaking this story and many others about high Bush family treason), Bollyn interviewed seismologists, who said that the only thing known to create that sort of spike that was recorded as the WTC1 and WTC2 towers started to come down is a (micro) nuclear explosion. More on that here as well. You can find the Christopher Bollyn article yourself.

2. That there's only concrete dust left. See Dr. Stephen Jones's article on the physics of the collapse or of the findings of THERMATE and sulfurated steel in both samples of WTC7 and WTC1or2. Thus same thermate technology found and used in both collapses. Nothing else except a controlled demolition would pulverize all floors--particularly the 100+ floors of each WTC building 1 & 2 that WEREN'T hit with anything--except treason demolition terrorism from the Bush Administration. And nothing except thermate--for which there is video evidence and physical crime scene evidence--would have been able to quickly cut through such steel to ready the building for demolition. And we have from the crime scene the physical evidence of sulfurated steel at the proper proportions for the thermate. Bingo.

3. There is radiological evidence of micronuclear detonations along with controlled demolitions of WTC (and Pentagon radiological evidence). (links above)

4. There's the Bush crime family rearing its ugly head. Marvin Bush, George W.'s Brother, was head of security at the WTCs. His last scheduled day on the job was September 11, 2001, according to his mom Barbara Bush, who wrote about it (ghostwrote) about it in her autobiography. Marvin she said was "luckily, late to work" on what would have been anyway his last day of the WTC security contract.

5. And the clencher, Silverstein admits he's a 9-11 controlled demolition terrorist --wake up Ts. Silverstein admitted guilt that he conducted a controlled demolition on his building 7 on 9-11, which fell exactly like the other two. However, WTC7 wasn't even hit with a damn plane, though it fell just like the other two. And since Dr. Jones has found thermate in WTC7 and WTC1or2 samples, that links Silverstein and/or Marvin Bush security with detonating both buildings with the same technology. FEMA even verifies and found the sulfurated steel in WTC7, though they just pass over it and ignore it and don't investigate it.

Larry Silverstein - World Trade Center - Building 7 - Alex Jones
Larry Silverstein owner of the World Trade Center admits that building seven came down by a controlled demolition.
1 min - Aug 13, 2006
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4142375757336204440&q=Silverstein

Silverstein thus illegally collected 500 million dollars in "terrorism insurance" several months earlier before that interview for the PBS special "America Rebuilds". Later, Silverstein basically says that he not only conducted multimillion dollar insurance fraud in his insurance claim, he helps lock himself up to throw away the key when he adds he was a terrorist blowing up WTC7--and since WTC1, WTC2, and WTC7 have common sulfurated thermate steel, he implies he "pulled" all others that he owned on 9-11. Of course you have to pre-plan all this and rig them up weeks in advance, so he is likely acessory before the fact to the crime, since they are his buildings that he only bought up seven weeks earlier before he admits demolishing one of them and is caught in the net by physical evidence similarities for WTC7 and WTC1and2 sulfurated steel in his other buildings' rubble.

This Silverstein is an amazingly shrewd terrorist. Silverstein was even personal friends with right wing Ariel Sharon, though that's not particularly important right now--though can be.

This information is still so hot that the University of Utah, where Dr. Jones works though has been 'put on leave,' is probably going to be fired to shut him up.

Radio show turned into libel-fest against Jones, ignoring thermate & Silverstein

Banned From The Classroom 911 Physics Scientist Who Proved Thermite Involved In WTC Demolitions
By ChristopherBollyn
9-17-2006

Like a modern-day Galileo or Socrates, the highly respected physicist, who has challenged with logic and scientific evidence the official explanation for the "collapse" of the World Trade Center, has been banned from teaching classes at his university. ...


6. Moreover, WTC1, WTC2, and (Silverstein admitted as a controlled demolition insurance fraud at) WTC7 fell identically in handy steel pieces. This is further evidence of demolition. A crush collapse would be just that--crushed and warped steel. Instead, it all came apart like Tinkertoys or pick up sticks in handy pieces.

7. A Company named Controlled Demolition, Inc. helped clean up. Ts, what kind of expertise would they have of cleaning up a presumed non-controlled demolition? Duh, because it was a controlled demolition. How did the CEO who has trained U.S. black ops in his career on his techniques have a whole clean up plan set up within one week?


8. There are plenty of videos of demolition squibs occurring throughout the WTC7, WTC1, and WTC2 collapses that you can see for yourself either in Loose Change or elsewhere.

9. Why did Guiliani illegally ship the evidence overseas before investigation--which is a crime in itself--though it was organized in such a manner that all steel went through a decontamination washer and all steel as it was being transported was hitched into trucks with satellite monitoring GPS devices so they could account for every little Tinkertoy of their crime scene. They wanted to be sure nothing survived (they hoped). They didn't get there wish.

The evidence for controlled demolition 'demolishes' any attempt to spin otherwise.

Links above. This is just a few off the top of my head that are damning enough for Bush administration terorrism organized by Marvin Bush and Silverstein on 9-11.

Ts, you know what they say about a duck: if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and swims like a duck, it's still a duck regardless of the spin that it ain't a duck.

And you know I've heard the same thing about disinformationalists. For instance, tell me, Ts. Why didn't you know this? Why the 'hard steering' drive of your spiel above ....More rigorous intuition, and less spinning for dollars....

11/17/2006 06:44:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

People who base their research on articles from Portland Indymedia need to come up with independent corroboration. Just quoting something from that one source is far from providing definitive fact.

By the way, check out:
http://www.gnn.tv/threads/15840/Final_Ultimate_Truth_of_the_Illuminati

11/18/2006 12:13:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

For some reason, the entire URL didn't show up before:

http://www.gnn.tv/threads/15840/Final_Ultimate_Truth_of_the_Illuminati

11/18/2006 12:14:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm going to have to post it in pieces:

http://www.gnn.tv/threads/15840/ +

Final_Ultimate_Truth_of_the_Illuminati

11/18/2006 12:16:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The conspiracy is important only in so far as the fact that there is a secret army that has an agenda that does not match their master populations, but the population continues to pay and not check what is happening. The population of the US is responsible for their rabid dogs. The cost of freedom is not eternal vigilance it is open government! If everyone knew what the terrorists were planning it would not happen. You cannot be free if 10 people know your every move.

11/18/2006 03:07:00 AM  
Blogger ericswan said...

Wesley said..(2) Chemtrails? Aliens? Wrong post, dude.

I don't think so. If TPTB can fly over my house, your house and everywhere else in this hemisphere without question or quandry, how difficult is it for them to sweep 911 under the table? The point being that chemtrails or UFO's or 911 conspiracies are in your face but we choose to ignore them. Why is that? Are we self fulfilling Armageddon? Do you have the antidote? Nit picking 911 or the dead Kennedy's is water under the bridge. Put another way, when I read the passenger list on all 4 "aircraft" I see 75 navy personnel, 40 army personnel, numerous genetic engineers scientists and computer programmers. Think Alternative 3.
Don't misunderestimate the small potatoes for the big stew.

11/18/2006 08:32:00 AM  
Anonymous Proteus said...

"He who is not able by the exercise of his reason to define the idea of the Good, separating it from all other objects and piercing, as in a battle through every kind of argument, endeavouring to confute, not according to opinion but according to essence, and proceeding through all the dialectic energies with an unshaken reason--he who cannot accomplish this, neither knows the Good itself, nor anything that is properly denominated the Good. And would you not say that such a one, if he apprehended any certain truth or image of reality, would apprehend it rather through the medium of opinion than of science; that in the present life he is sunk in sleep and conversant in the delusions of dreams; and that descending into Hades, before he is roused to a vigilant state, he will be overwhelmed with a sleep perfectly profound."

- Plato, The Commonwealth, Book 7

This is my favorite tidbit from Plato. I have come to see much of the material dysfuntion we are experiencing today as a manifestation of our collective dissonance. I allowed myself to become polarized by 9/11. I took what was truth and let the negativity of its message corrupt my heart. I was angry at my fellow man for not waking from his slumber. I was often depressed and antagonistic. I did not know it at the time, but I was externalizing what I should have been internalizing. Since then, I have experienced a spinal cord injury, surgery, being dumped by a non-existant healthcare system, and tons of self-taught physical therapy. It was all a great gift and blessing. I have learned that the events on that fateful day mirror events every day on the smallest scale. But does the event exist in and of itself, or should we begin looking at the thinking that has led to the event? I have grown to see the latter as the only possible path. For those who choose to angrily battle themselves through others by way of looking for any excuse to lable their brothers and sisters as the outlander, I hope that peace and humilty will invade your consciousness and that you will soon realize that, just like with the assassinations of JFK, Malcolm X, and MLK, a consensus means very little when based upon a reality drawn up by authority figures. We have to grow to create something entirely different or there will be more minutiae for us to study after the next false flag social engineering project.

Sites like this one are key signs of change. This realm (the internet) has become a virtual consciousness in which we may pursue knowledge. I understand that pulling back the curtain is a first step, but the truth is that the curtain never really existed in the first place. I urge those of you overcome by your fear and helplessness not to look externally for your answers. Please do not sabotage your radiance like I did. Learn to seek your own counsel and do not rely upon others' acceptance as a beacon for your path. Let the love you have for humanity that has made you angry about these injustices set your heart on fire. We need each other now, my friends. We always have.



My heart is burning with love
All can see this flame
My heart is pulsing with passion
like waves on an ocean

my friends have become strangers
and I’m surrounded by enemies
But I’m free as the wind
no longer hurt by those who reproach me

I’m at home wherever I am
And in the room of lovers
I can see with closed eyes
the beauty that dances

Behind the veils
intoxicated with love
I too dance the rhythm
of this moving world

I have lost my senses
in my world of lovers

- Rumi

11/18/2006 01:01:00 PM  
Anonymous FreakedOut said...

See http://men.style.com/gq/features/full?id=content_5179&pageNum=3

Al Gore:

"It is inconceivable to me that Bush would read a warning as stark and as clear [voice angry now] as the one he received on August 6th of 2001, and, according to some of the new histories, he turned to the briefer and said, “Well, you’ve covered your ass.” And never called a follow up meeting. Never made an inquiry. Never asked a single question. To this day, I don’t understand it. And, I think it’s fair to say that he personally does in fact bear a measure of blame for not doing his job at a time when we really needed him to do his job. And now the Woodward book has this episode that has been confirmed by the record that George Tenet, who was much abused by this administration, went over to the White House for the purpose of calling an emergency meeting and warning as clearly as possible about the extremely dangerous situation with Osama bin Laden, and was brushed off! And I don’t know why—honestly—I mean, I understand how horrible this Congressman Foley situation with the instant messaging is, okay? I understand that. But, why didn’t these kinds of things produce a similar outrage? And you know, I’m even reluctant to talk about it in these terms because it’s so easy for people to hear this or read this as sort of cheap political game-playing. I understand how it could sound that way. [Practically screaming now] But dammit, whatever happened to the concept of accountability for catastrophic failure? This administration has been by far the most incompetent, inept, and with more moral cowardice, and obsequiousness to their wealthy contributors, and obliviousness to the public interest of any administration in modern history, and probably in the entire history of the country!"

11/18/2006 02:48:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"People who base their research on articles from Portland Indymedia need to come up with independent corroboration."

?

IMCs aren't author driven things. They are places first of all break through the gatekeeping of the corporate media with tangible information that is sourced (second, in addition to a wider array of multiple opinions that is more healthy for any society that consider themselves democratic).

So, you are making up a silly critique called "attack the messenger" when you are attempting to ignore the message--and a very flaccid attack at that. It's not where it's posted, it's what's in it and what is sourced.

It's the seismologists interviewed by Christopher Bollyn that are referenced saying that only nuclear devices create a thin short sharp spike as noted in the preparatory explosions of WTC1 and WTC2.

It's the physicists with the sulfurated thermate samples (and thermate videos) that are referenced that prove that in addition to micronuclear explosions in the basements of WTC1 and WTC2, there were thermate charges in WTC1/2 as well as WTC7.

It's Silverstein admitting he is the 9-11 terrorist of all three or more of his buildings on 9-11.

It's the fact that Marvin Bush was security (or lack thereof) when the thermate for WTC7, WTC1, and WTC7 were planted on his watch.

It's the fact that Giuliani illegally destroyed the crime scene evidence of the largest terrorist event in U.S. history.

All of that has nothing to do with any IMC, and it has more to do with the "two party system" of the United States which supports corporate fascism, killing people worldwide pre-emptively, and killing its own citizens to make a political. The U.S. Government state terrorism of Operational Northwoods is proof enough of that. Northwoods style killing of Americans, by the U.S. military, and throwing the blame on someone else, down the huge media control network, was unanimously recommended by the whole Joint Chiefs of Staff as long ago as 45 years ago.

Just watch the 2 minutes and 25 seconds: everything involved in 9-11 'public events' were ideas dreamed up by the Pentagon 45 years ago as state terrorism, under Limnitzer--and we know where he went after being fired--off to NATO and running the separate celled 'Operation Gladio' networks of right wing neo-Nazis loosely connected with NATO for state terrorism as well. (Those three BBC Gladio videos from 1991 are priceless. Watch them.)

With that being said, my advice. Don't become a trial lawyer. Stick to your troll job. And anyone who argues otherwise in such a flaccid way marks themselves as a troll.

11/18/2006 04:00:00 PM  
Anonymous humblenotry said...

Yes Proteus understanding just how overwhelmingly vain and arrogant a heirarchy can be with all its self serving mechanisms can drive one insane. But I'm over the hump now. Accepting the facts of anti establishment social sciences was one of the hardest things I have done in my life. It was harder because I absorbed the knowledge of history, government, economics, secret societies, the global management system, etc.. all at once. Like a waterfall of evil pouring upon my head. After a few years I was better able to discern the specifics and details and my mentality changed into a more realistic and positive focus. These influences have driven all the nation peoples insane.

You said that your injury was a blessing. That is an uplifting attitude. May God bless you for that.

For people new to this kind of knowledge try to hang on to the fact that almost everything is social engineering and the issue of pride makes us most vulnerable. Your pride is singled out. Be careful of your pride. Pride can and does drive us bananas.

11/18/2006 04:35:00 PM  
Blogger Sounder said...

proteus said;

"But does the event exist in and of itself, or should we begin looking at the thinking that has led to the event? I have grown to see the latter as the only possible path."

And also,

"consensus means very little when based upon a reality drawn up by authority figures."

Both statements mark you as a person interested in examining and finding proper ways to change our psychical conditioning systems. A worthy area for examination, in my opinion. Material on my blogspot relates to the above issues.

11/18/2006 08:16:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

proteus' comments reflected a mature transcendence. amazing

11/18/2006 09:08:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Portland Indymedia seems about as reliable (and as out there) as the Washington Times, just at the other end of the political spectrum. All this ideology gets tiring. You say "don't attack the messenger" but then you do it.

When you start calling me a "disinfo agent" I'll know you're really full of it, since I know who I am.

11/18/2006 11:43:00 PM  
Blogger Sounder said...

Anonymous said...

proteus' comments reflected a mature transcendence. amazing

9:08 PM

More like embracing rather than transcendance, very appealing.

11/19/2006 06:24:00 AM  
Anonymous Hilda Martinez said...

This post has been up since Thursday and by now the comments section should have spiraled into a series of back-biting, insults-a-flying posts, but it's refreshing to see that it has maintained a sense of integrity.

Could the reason have to do with a certain someone being out of the mix? Anyone who poo-pooed me when I commented about this before can see the results right before your own eyes.

Thank you, Proteus, for sharing your insights and your personal story. I have had similar epiphanies rooted in terrible situations. You are right, we cannot sabotage our inner radiance by dwelling on the "badness" of these external events and must look internally. Great stuff to ponder.

11/19/2006 10:16:00 AM  
Anonymous Oarwell said...

Proteus, I'm sure you've read Ram Dass's 'Be Here Now.' After suffering a stroke leaving him with an expressive aphasia, he came to understand it as an action of grace. Your story is quite similar, which is hardly surprising, given the level of acceptance you've achieved.

Perspective is all.

As for Hopsicker, I live near, and pass Huffman Aviation and the Venice airfield quite often. Hopsicker is being sued by the convenience store owner that he alleges was Atta's hang-out (article was in the Sarasota Herald Tribune last week) (the store has been closed for 3 years now, sitting empty, which is itself rather odd). I never understood why Hopsicker isn't simply accidented, if a tenth of what he is saying is true. Particulary the Wally Hilliard revelations. Normally I would think it disinfo, but have to wonder what possible use such disinfo could serve, naming names which seem to be accurate.

A friend who lives on Venice Island tells me that every night at 2am a flight arrives at that airfield, lands, and takes off again about 30 minutes later. Probably just an insomniac.

11/19/2006 10:42:00 AM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

This post has been up since Thursday and by now the comments section should have spiraled into a series of back-biting, insults-a-flying posts, but it's refreshing to see that it has maintained a sense of integrity.

There is another possible explanation, or at least another way of looking at the situation, Hilda. This post has been up for four days and only has 38 comments--surely the apparent lack of acrimony might have something to do with the lack of enthusiasm the post has generated. Why that should be is another question altogether. Part of it might be that most of us have come to see 9/11 as a sort of sideshow to the main event. The continuing manipulation of the many by the few is the bigger story, and this manipulation is not (primarily) achieved through black ops spectacles but through the omnipresence of the Big Lie, that America is the last bastion of freedom in an increasingly dangerous world.

We're fed such tripe so incessantly that it's next to impossible for the average citizen/consumer to grasp that it's all a huge farce, that the rest of the world fears and hates us (and it's not because of our illusory freedoms, either.) As our friend Joe put it recently, in another of his high octane essays, Pissing in the Liberal Punchbowl Again:

Americans take comfort in the spoonfed "pendulum" theory of politics. No matter that the pendulum smacks them in the goddamned head at either end of the swing, because supposedly, it achieves some democracy preserving balance. To my mind, it merely offers a different faux target for citizen discontent every four years, so the same powers behind the powers can continue to extract wealth and sucker the public into consumer confidence and the latest Wall Street Ponzi scheme, or fighting wars to obtain more wealth and to protect what the elites have already piled up. Yet American tolerance for this pendulum bullshit, for this set of fake choices between two powerful groups of political elites who are dancing in the Washington conga line, asshole to belly button pretending they are alternatives to each another, seems endless.

Internationally speaking, the picture is no better. It's pretty doubtful anyone will publicly fess up to the fact that the whole damned world hates us, and that a recent poll found that just about everybody but the Japanese and the South Koreans consider us far more dangerous than Kim Il Sung's North Korean nuclear zoo. The soon-to-come investigations of Cheney and Rumsfeld may make jolly spectacle for the American public, even entertain the Europeans for a while, with its examination as to how our illegal invasion, complete destruction and occupation of a sovereign country was "mishandled" -- if the actions of a rogue nation can be said to be mishandled -- which will distract the citizenry for a while longer. But the Democratic Party will never challenge the militarism that has made war the resort of first option so acceptable to so many Americans. Cutting defense spending by half remains unthinkable, even though it would still leave us with one quarter of all the world's weapons and four fifths of the world's viable nuclear firepower. Despite that the savings would rebuild every school in then nation, or send every American child through college or technical school, or wipe out homelessness in one fell swoop, or pay for nationalized health care for all, (if the insurance company leeches are dumped in the process) or public transit.


These are the real issues, and they'll never be addressed by either the politicians, the media, or the public. So, yeah, Hopsicker is one brave MF, and his work in exposing the the narco-terrorists we call "leaders" is to be commended, but the endless arguments over evidence and theories that seek to "prove" the obvious--that 9/11 was just another in a long string of staged events for political purposes--actually, if unintentionally, lays another layer of confusion, even obfuscation, over the real issues which Mr. Bageant outlines so well above. As far as the integrity or civility you perceive in this thread, it's more an absence of nidgits calling each other disinfo agents than the missing Shrubbery, who, to my knowledge, never hurled that most divisive epithet. As I pointed out to Oarwell the other day, it's also not a bad idea to remember that Mr. Shrub took himself out of the community, not Jeff or any annoyed and/or fearful persons calling for censorship. As Oarwell says, perspective is alles. (Or, was it ripeness...?)

11/19/2006 12:26:00 PM  
Anonymous Oarwell said...

Off-topic. Talk about a change of perspective--I've spent the morning boggling my mind at this kind of stuff (from a wiki article on quarkian "strangeness":

"Cautionary note:
In many applications of QCD (quantum chromodynamics) one can ignore the heavy flavors of quark (charm, bottom and top). In this case the effective flavor group is often SU(3), which should not be confused with the color group. In QCD the color group belongs to a local symmetry and hence is gauged. The flavor group is not gauged. The Eightfold way is based on the flavor group and ignores the local symmetry which gives QCD."

Hmmm. "The Eightfold way is based on the flavor group..." I have no idea what that means, but it certainly sounds intriguing.

IC, my head is filled with bosons, and I can't figure out the fruitfulness, the "flavor," of your comment about ripeness. Ich weiss das ich nicht weiss.

11/19/2006 02:04:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

Hey Oarwell!
Funny things happen when you mix ideas, languages and moods together. It (this strangely charming quarkiness) reminds me of an article called This Is Your Brain on God, which I recently linked here. So...you took my twisted, germanic Shakespeare and then threw me back some krauted Socrates (Ich weiß, daß ich nichts weiß) which comes from "Ich glaube nicht zu wissen, was ich nicht weiß," which brought me to this weird German Wiki-quote page, where I found some awesome stuff, as filtered through the German language lens.

(I’ll be brief, as I realize this is slightly esoteric, but Oarwell obviously started this...) First we have the German Rumsfeld, and since everyone knows this one, it’s kind of interesting how, well, almost philosophical he sounds in the language of the Deep Thinkers:

"Berichte über etwas, das nicht passiert ist, sind für mich interessant, denn wie wir wissen, gibt es Dinge, die wir wissen. Wir wissen auch, dass es Unbekanntes gibt, von dem wir wissen, dass es unbekannt ist. Wir wissen, dass es Dinge gibt, die wir nicht wissen. Aber es gibt auch Dinge, von denen wir nicht wissen, dass wir sie nicht wissen."(Donald Rumsfeld, SPIEGEL Online, 2. Dezember 2003)

And then I found one of my heroes in translation:

"Information ist nicht Wissen, Wissen ist nicht Weisheit, Weisheit ist nicht Wahrheit, Wahrheit ist nicht Schönheit, Schönheit ist nicht Liebe, Liebe ist nicht Musik, Musik ist das Beste." -- Frank Zappa (Information is not knowledge, knowledge is not wisdom,wisdom is not truth, truth is not beauty, beauty is not love, love is not music, music is the best.)

And then, finally, the guys who started all this strange particle madness:

"Nur wenige wissen, wie viel man wissen muss, um zu wissen, wie wenig man weiß." -- Werner Heisenberg (Only a few know how much one needs to know in order to know how little one knows), which naturally reminded me of Hawkwind’s Quark, Strangeness & Charm:

einstein was not a handsome fellow
nobody ever called him al
he had a long moustache to pull on
it was yellow
i don't believe he ever had a girl
one thing he missed out in his theory
of time and space and relativity
is something that makes it very clear he
was never gonna score like you and me
he didn't know about

quark strangeness and charm...


While I couldn’t find a free mp3 of this, I did find one of Lords of Light (you have to scroll down half a page and select it from the table at the right) which gets to the heart of these perplexing bosons and such. This song, and your boson perplexity, in turn, remind me of Niels Bohr’s famous quote: "If you think you understand [quantum mechanics], that only shows you don't know the first thing about it."

Truly finally, an interesting website on things quantum (and otherwise) called The Dynamic Unity of Reality, which conflicts just a bit with Bibhas De's radically dim view of those quantum fellows...Sorry, everyone, I think I've just turned into James Burke...

11/19/2006 04:47:00 PM  
Blogger Sounder said...

Been chasing down links provided by IC. Thanks IC. I enjoy Bibhas De's take on physics, and proud for him that he sees a better way to use his intellect.

As to the 'Dynamic Unity of Reality' and wave theory, perhaps because my pretences hold that modern physics are built on a poor foundation (trying to determine the nature of reality by piling one abstraction on top of another), I cannot get right with another crack patching exercise.

11/19/2006 07:38:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

Sounder,
At first impression, The Dymamic Unity of Reality does appear to be some sort of "patching" effort on the holes in the faulty foundations of physics, as you put it, but I've just spent a few hours over there and I've changed my mind--these guys are onto something! In fact, the head guru, Geoff Haselhurst, is a lot like Bibhas De in his focus on the wave structure of the universe, but differs from De in that he's a lot less harsh toward the professional charlatans acting like the rock stars of the physics world.

Haselhurst does toss out the entire alleged wave/particle duality in physics, but he keeps a lot of the work of Einstein, Feynman, and even Lorentz intact, once you accept their common errors in perspective. Where Haselhurst is truly unique is that he reconciles the great irreconcilables in physics--everything is explained by and subsumed under the Wave Structure of Matter Theory. (Tom Bearden really needs to read this--Lorentz & Tesla are, apparently, not "mortal enemies.") Haselhurst is also not exactly alone in this "new" view of the universe:

As Carver Mead wrote (Professor emeritus at the California Institute of Technology (Caltech):

"It is my firm belief that the last seven decades of the twentieth century will be characterized in history as the dark ages of theoretical physics."

"The quantum world is a world of waves, not particles. So we have to think of electron waves and proton waves and so on. Matter is 'incoherent' when all its waves have a different wavelength, implying a different momentum. On the other hand, if you take a pure quantum system - the electrons in a superconducting magnet, or the atoms in a laser - they are all in phase with one another, and they demonstrate the wave nature of matter on a large scale. Then you can see quite visibly what matter is down at its heart."
(Carver Mead Interview, American Spectator, Sep/Oct2001, Vol. 34 Issue 7, p68)

So, go back and give this another look, Sounder--I think you're going to appreciate it immensely. There's a portion of one of the forums where they completely demolish the very idea of duality, maybe here, no, that's good shit, but it's here, in the thread with this comment from galaxy*19:

...Indeed, we are infinite, no matter what scales arise to distract us from this.

And time is meaningless because the universe is cyclic, spiralish if you please, and has no beginning or end either. Infinitely connected means that it is all One.

The interesting thing, the most mis-leading thing about our universe, is it's dualities, and the way they strive to be balanced. Everything must balance, just like an equation, in order for it to be True.

I prefer to think of the equation as looking like Infinity = Infinity = Infinity, surely a something = something = something. See, and the nothing exists in the spaces between. Without the void emptiness of space, we would not have the 'something' at all to recognize.


Now, if that doesn't look like something you've written, I'll be a monkey's uncle (oh, yeah, well maybe nephew...)

11/20/2006 01:18:00 AM  
Blogger Sounder said...

IC,

I can be encouraging towards the WSM of the universe because it at least softens the boundary conditions between so called particles. The issue may be one of semantics.

For instance my view holds that: Any particle is the agglutination of sub-particles that exhibit the proper combination of frequency, velocity, vector, and a cyclical balance between electro-magnetic attraction and static repulsion characteristics.

With this as an assumption then the sub-particles and sub-sub-particles are the carrier elements for what appears as waves. I have no problem with Einstein’s notion that a particle is a localized wave density, however I still question, What is that wave density made up from?

As to Geoff’s notion that there are Absolute Truths, well there may be, yet I am quite sure that when we try to represent these Truths through language we by necessity adopt limits that confine truth to a relative framework. So yes, while the fact of gravity exists as an Absolute Truth, our representation of it will never likely be Absolute. I was a bit puzzled, that as a philosopher, Geoff does not make that distinction. I will read more and perhaps he will clear that up for me.

IC, you are my best resource on the web, and I love you for that.

11/20/2006 06:16:00 AM  
Blogger ericswan said...

Language may be the best we have at understanding or communicating the nature of the universe. Dan Winter describes the unfolding as a donut which explains the nature of the dimensions. He describes the alphabet as being the physical representation of all vibrations known and unknown, that can be intuited by us now and forever. An example might be the knots in "string theory". Consider that the letter....a.... is the languaging of a knot to represent a "boson" in string theory. Precognitive effects of going forward and backward in time to achieve 0=infinity=God.

11/20/2006 09:12:00 AM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

Sounder,
Thanks. You are much too kind, but, for what's it's worth, thanks anyway. There has been far too much talk about infighting/back-biting and acrimony both here at Jeff's excellent blog and board domains and out in the rest of the Net. The truth is that the connections we make, while ethereal in nature, are much stronger than the divisiveness that is being sown by those in whose interest it lies to keep us divided. Like Spike Lee's (false) dichotomy of Love and Hate, this model is getting old because we are gradually getting wiser.

I know it's very difficult to believe what I'm going to say next, since the world is dying and the grip of the war-mongering elite is nearly all-encompassing, but they will not win in the end. Your search for truth is everyone's search. Be heartened: it's not a quixotic quest at all--they just want you to think it is. There is one fundamental truth but many ways of approaching it. Richard Bucke, in his amazing little book from 1902, Cosmic Consciousness, described the ultimate truth that has thus far only been found by the very few first "new men":

"Like a flash there is presented to his consciousness a clear conception (a vision) in outline of the meaning and drift of the universe..He sees and knows that the cosmos...is in fact...in very truth a living presence. He sees that instead of men being, as it were, patches of life scattered through an infinite sea of non-living substance, they are in reality specks of relative death in an infinite ocean of life. He sees that the life which is in man is as immortal as God is; that the universe is so built and ordered that without any peradventure all things work together for the good of each and all; that the foundation principle of the world is what we call love, and that the happiness of every individual is in the long run absolutely certain."

It is Bucke's contention that cosmic consciousness is the next phase in our evolution--how conscious are we that evolution is ongoing, that we are not the 'end product' of that journey, but instead a way station on the endless road to infinite complexification? Look at it this way: we haven't yet mastered our own brains. We use just a small portion of that three pound lump, and even that we do inefficiently. How many times have you had an answer, a word, a bit of information on the tip of your tongue but not been able to access it when you wanted it? Jose Silva proposed a somewhat less primitive method of processing a generation ago; one day we will learn how to use the most elegant computers ever (accidentally) designed. We will be able to learn a hundred languages instead of one or two.

When we finally write the owner's manual we've all been stumbling around without, we'll be able to turn our attention back toward the rest of the universe. Nanotechnology, terraforming, space & time travel, and the practical immortality to enjoy it all.

You are quite right to be suspicious of absolute truths and to distrust our language as a vehicle for the expression of fundamental truths. Bucke talks about intuition as the next step, the replacement for reasoning in cosmic consciousness. What strikes me most about Haselhurst's WSM theory is that it just seems so correct to my admittedly primitive intuition. He acknowledges your concerns directly:

The ONLY ABSOLUTE TRUTH is that there are NO ABSOLUTE TRUTHS (Feyerabend)

Finally, if nothing can be truly asserted, even the following claim would be false, the claim that there is no true assertion. (Aristotle)

If anyone thinks nothing is to be known, he does not even know whether that can be known, as he says he knows nothing. (Lucretius)

And isn't it a bad thing to be deceived about the truth, and a good thing to know what the truth is? For I assume that by knowing the truth you mean knowing things as they really are. (Plato)

Haselhurst then goes on to talk about the very things about which you were skeptical:

Introduction to Postmodernism

The current Postmodern belief is that a correct description of Reality is impossible. This extreme skepticism, of which Karl Popper and Thomas Kuhn are particularly famous, assumes that:

a) All truth is limited, approximate, and is constantly evolving
b) No theory can ever be proved true (we can only show that a theory is false)
c) No theory can ever explain all things
d) Thus absolute and certain truth that explains all things is unobtainable.

As Taborsky writes of Postmodernism philosophy;

.. the Mediated concept of Truth, is that it first admits that there is no such thing as absolute, pure Truth. There is a reality, which may be abstract or sensual ... but one cannot access it/know it ..'in-itself'. One can only 'know' it within the socially constructed (or species-constructed) 'mediative-habits' of one's particular society/species/whatever. (Taborsky)

The post modern understanding that our language is too imprecise and relative in meaning to ever absolutely describe Reality, has been caused by the failure of Physicists and Philosophers (over many centuries) to discover / correctly describe Reality.

The quest for certainty has played a considerable part in the history of philosophy: it has been assumed that without a basis of certainty all our claims to knowledge must be suspect.(A.J. Ayer)

Nothing seems of more importance, towards erecting a firm system of sound and real knowledge, which may be proof against the assaults of scepticism, than to lay the beginning in a distinct explication of what is meant by thing, reality, existence: for in vain shall we dispute concerning the real existence of things, or pretend to any knowledge thereof, so long as we have not fixed the meaning of those words. (George Berkeley)

In 1940, two hundred years after Hume first formalized the Metaphysical Problem of Causation, Einstein confirms that the problem of how matter exists and intereracts with other matter remained unsolved:

For the time being we have to admit that we do not possess any general theoretical basis for physics which can be regarded as its logical foundation. (Einstein, 1940)

Due to this past failure it is only natural human behavior (psychological) that this has resulted in our current Postmodern belief that it is impossible to directly describe and understand the physical reality of what exists.

The problem with Postmodernism is that it leaves us without absolute foundations, encourages a separate / individual sense of self and gives too much power to our imagination and how we may choose to live. While this may liberating, it unfortunately offers little guidance and does not abide by the fact that humans are constructed of matter, interact with all other matter in the universe and have evolved certain genetic traits as part of their evolutionary ancestry. Thus there are certain absolute truths that humans (all things) must abide by if they are to live by the truth and the wisdom this attains. As Gottfried Leibniz wrote;

A distinction must be made between true and false ideas, and that too much rein must not be given to a man's imagination under pretext of its being a clear and distinct intellection. (Leibniz, 1670)

There is a tacit assumption within postmodernism that no theory will ever explain all things, but there is no real reason for this assumption (other than that history showed that no theory had yet explained all things).

Still with me, Sounder? This next bit is the heart of the WSM solution to the eternal dilemma of Truth:

Postmodernism is founded on Relative Space and Relative Truth. Absolute Truth comes from Necessary Connection which requires One Thing, Absolute Space, to Connect the Many Things (Matter as Spherical Wave Motions of Space).

Wisdom from Truth and Reality:

Currently Physics (and thus all human knowledge) is founded on the concepts of particles and forces in Space and Time, which assumes the existence of four separate things. This causes many problems for Humanity because the necessary connection between these things is unknown.

The Metaphysics of Space and Motion and the Wave Structure of Matter (WSM) solves these problems by describing Reality in terms of One thing, Space, existing with the Properties of a Wave Medium.

1.) Matter is formed from Spherical Standing Waves in Space which cause the 'particle' effect at their Wave Center.

2.) Time is due to the Wave Motion (activity) of Space.

3.) Forces are caused by the interaction of the Spherical In and Out Waves with other matter in Space which changes the location of the Wave-Center (and which we 'see' as a 'force accelerating a particle').

If it's true that Haselhurst and Wolff & Co. have hit upon the essence of reality, that all matter consists of standing waves, and the interaction of these waves explains the function of time, gravity and all the other forces which were previously thought of as separate, then we have our Grand Unified Field Theory, the holy grail of physics, at long last. The implications of this discovery, which is really nothing more than looking at the problem from a new perspective, are incredibly far-reaching.

The tools for building a just and sustainable world are within our grasp. The old elite will be left holding an empty cage. All that's holding us back now are experimentation, verification, and dissemination. Once out of the bottle, genies are notoriously difficult to get back in...

11/20/2006 02:09:00 PM  
Anonymous Luposapien said...

IC, a second on those thanks for the intriguing links.

I'm gonna have to make the time (as I can never seem to find it) to check out that site on WSM. It rings true to me, but perhaps just because I'm a musician at heart, and it's compatible with my current pre-suppositions as to how things work. I have to admit, though, that as fascinated by physics as I am, I'm a bit limited by my relative lack of mathematical skill.

Regardless, pending future developments, I'll be holding to my position as a militant agnostic, "I don't know, and you don't know either." :-)

11/20/2006 04:13:00 PM  
Blogger Sounder said...

My wife says that I am post-post-modern, because while I consider that there is an absolute and that our theories should aspire to reflect reality, in fact the case has been that declared absolutes have mostly served to inhibit ‘enthusiasm’. Because two of our great intellectually formative events (Nicene Creed and Descartes), contained elements specifically designed to inhibit enthusiasm, it seems only fitting that our next system for understanding contain elements that encourage, nay require people to do some thinking for themselves. These earlier systems for understanding were designed to be co-opted; think what society might do with a system for understanding specifically designed to resist co-optation; and explain the nature of reality better to boot. Perhaps more can be said over at tomorrow today.

Luposapian, don't worry about the math, its not that critical.

And as every Hindu Guru will tell you, the road is the destination.

11/20/2006 07:53:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Old banned (yes, actually BANNED) Floyd Smoots says:

According to most of the posters here at R.I., the Bible is bullshit. Too bad that you feel that way. It probably could have helped you to understand what's really going on behind the curtain(s). Maranatha.

11/20/2006 08:16:00 PM  
Anonymous humblenotry said...

Hello to iridescent cuttlefish, ericswan, sounder, oarwell, proteus, luposapian, and anybody else who is interested in stuffing the cornucopia of knowledge with more knowledge. This is very important. You should remember this at all costs. Nothing is more important than this. 7 Up is the Uncola. hahahaha... just kidding. I think you will appreciate the thoughts of these great thinkers. Whether it affects you in the negative or positive. The first thought is from E.W. Bullinger.

Man starts from nothing. He begins in helplessness, ignorance, and inexperience. All his works, therefore, proceed on the principle of evolution. This principle is seen only in human affairs: from the hut to the palace; from the canoe to the ocean liner; from the spade and ploughshare to machines for drilling, reaping, and binding,&c. But the birds build their nests to-day as at the beginning. The moment we pass the boundry line, and enter the Divine sphere, no trace or vestige of evolution is seen. There is growth and development within, but no passing, change, or evolution out from one into another.

By Prof. Fred L. Wilson, Rochester Institute of Technology.

Outstanding spokesmen of the 3 main types of physics time and time again claimed that the "perfect intelligibility of nature" represented by the physics of the day had some divine hallmark on it. Aristotle, the supreme architect of organismic physics, referred to that ascending staircase of "affections" that supposedly connected both the strivings of ordinary matter and the affections of the ether to the fullness of life in the Prime Mover.

Einstein said that the universe was governed by a Divine Mind. He made these statements in his later days reflecting on science.

"I'm not much with people, and I'm not a family man. I want my peace. I want to know how God created this world. I am not interested in this or that phenomena in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details."
(Clarck, 1971, 18-19)

"I believe in Spinoza's God, who reveals Himself in the harmony of all being, not in a God who concerns Himself with the fate of actions of men."
(Schilpp, 1969, 526)

"I defend the Good God agaisnt the idea of a continuous game of dice."
(Speziali, 1972, 361)

Raffiniert ist der Herr Gott, aber boshaft ist er nicht. God is subtle, but he is not malicious. Inscribed in Fine Hall, Princeton University.

Blaise Pascal the great philosopher scientist who died at the age of 39, the father of the modern computer, the inventor of the barometer said in his Pensees. Should a man be in error in supposing the Christian God to be true, he could not be a loser by mistake, but how irreparable is his loss, and how inexpressible his danger who should err in supposing it to be false. This the Pascalian Wager.

His argument is purely existential. If a person believes in Christ to be who Christ claimed He was, and this person turns out to be wrong, and at the end of his life he becomes nothing. The random qualification of atoms disintegrates into dust. Do you realize he has lost nothing because the existential pursuit was still contentment and happiness, and he found it. The argument is purely existential. It is not a stupid idea, like I'm going this route because I've basically have nothing to lose. That's not what he is saying.

He is saying the alternative offer is if you deny God authenticate yourself, be your own person, find your fulfillment. The Christian counters by saying I found it. I found it albeit in believing something that wasn't so. But at the end of it no regrets. Because dust does not regret. Aristotle states nothing is what rocks dream about. At the end Pascal says he has nothing to lose by believing this.
(Ravi Zacharias on his radio show Let My People Think.)

Finally E.W. Bullinger states:

Evolution is only one of several theories invented to explain the phenomena of created things. It is admitted by all scientists that no one of these theories covers all the ground; and the greatest claim made for Evolution, or Darwinism, is that "it covers more ground than any of the others."

The Word of God claims to cover all the ground: and the only way in which this claim is met, is by a denial of the inspiration of the Scriptures, in order to weaken it. This is the special work undertaken by the so-called "Higher Criticism", which bases its conclusions on human assumptions and reasoning, instead of on the documentary evidence of manuscripts, as Textual Criticism does.

The study of Theology simply is not stupid. Just like any other serious-minded study.

11/20/2006 10:39:00 PM  
Anonymous Spermageddon said...

I'm inclined to agree with Hilda...Shrubadumbass was a problem child. (And, yes, IC, I realize he showered you with compliments, but that does not change the fact that he was in fact insulting to others.) The boy has narcissistic rage and paranoid delusions written all over him. He doesn't need this board; he needs help. I say good riddance.

I checked out the Haselhurst page. Very turned off by the messianic zeal and self-promotional hucksterism. Sorry Lupo, Sounder and IC, the math IS important. Physics is not a narrative discourse; it is primarily a mathematical discourse. If you can't do the math, all you're doing is hawking another metaphysical religion. And we already have that...it's called Buddhism. Hawking and Weinberg and Capra know well the mantra another sucker is born every minute. But what the bleep do we know?

11/20/2006 10:48:00 PM  
Anonymous Oarwell said...

Picking up the Torch of Doubt, I would like to pass on a link to this article which appeared in Harpers last month. Probably the whole (reading) world has read it but me, but it's one heck of a good read, particularly the second half, reexploring the controversy about the cause of "AIDS," and how, slowly but surely, Peter Duesberg is being vindicated by the accumulated evidence.

http://www.reviewingaids.com/awiki/index.php/Document:Out_of_Control

Duesberg is now a proponent of aneuploidy as being the true cause of cancer, rather than gene mutations. This "failure of genetic speciation" leads one researcher to describe cancer as being a different species, noting that aggressive lung, prostate and breast cancers might have as many as 70 or 80 chromosomes (3 to 4 times the number in humans!). This species actually survives better in the host than the host's own cells.

One of the footnotes describes how most today have forgotten the controversies over scurvy and pellagra, before they were identified as dietary deficiencies. People thought they were infectious, and those who realized that changes in diet could cure or prevent the diseases (limes were carried on British ships long before Vitamine C was discovered)were considered "flat earthers."

Duesberg, once considered a crank virologist, is now one among many top researchers who think the HIV/AIDS link may be hugely wrong, or at least hugely distorted by a profit-seeking pharma industry. AZT, discovered in the 1960s, was shelved as a potential cancer chemotherapy due to its extreme toxicity. It stops DNA synthesis, and kills cells regardless of HIV infectivity. But by 1986, AZT was the AIDS wonder drug, and Glaxo got rich pushing the crap. Comic books featuring groovy gay dudes were published monthly, in which the dudes were shown getting strong and healthy by taking their AZT.

Scientific orthodoxies, especially when linked to corporate greed, are sometimes the smelliest of all. Especially when the orthodoxies are based on a refutation of real, objective scientific method.

11/20/2006 11:19:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

Spermageddon,
By all means hang on to your skepticism--I've only recently come across this stuff myself and haven't yet sold the farm to join the cult. One can entertain possiblilities as easily as doubts, however. As luposapien says, this Wave Structure of Matter Theory seems to somehow ring true; and while intuition is (not yet) a substitute for reason, neither is a preconceived notion. If it's the lack of maths that "turned you off" (in addition to the perceived messianic vibe of the website), maybe just sticking to the science might change your opinion. The following is some of the maths involved with WSM, developed independently of Geoff Haselhurst, or better said, in parallel to Haselhurst's primarily conceptual physics, by Milo Wolff, who doesn't seem to be much of a self-promoting huckster to me.

(Lastly, while it might also be true that the departed Shrub was uncharacteristically generous with his praise toward me in particular, he and I also fought the futile battle of the stereo-typed pessimist and optimist on at least as many occasions. Most of the people posting here are quite nice, or at least civil toward one another, as that tends to build momentum in a discussion, as opposed to consensus, which is vastly over-rated anyway, judging by this stinking reality that consensus has produced...)

Now, for the math-minded:

Science Articles by Mathematical Physicist Dr Milo Wolff on the Wave Structure of Matter
(WSM)

Wolff: Wave Structure of Matter - A Concise Summary of the Logic and Mathematics of the Wave Structure of Matter. (Lots of groovy graphics, too, for the conceptually-oriented.)

Wolff: Einstein EPR Experiment - Wolff (WSM) explains the Famous EPR Experiment and suggests modified Experiment to explain Quantum Entanglement.

Wolff: Richard Feynman's QED - From Feynman's Spherical Vector Electromagnetic Waves (Mathematical) to Spherical Scalar Quantum Waves (Real Waves).

Wolff: Binary Universe - The Binary Nature of Reality (Waves form from two balanced forces, Spherical In-Waves and Out-Waves). Relates this to digital computing.

Wolff: Haselhurst Letters - Correspondence between Milo Wolff and Geoff Haselhurst on their Independent discovery of the Wave Structure of Matter and the consequences for Modern Physics, Philosophy and Metaphysics (1997 - 2006).

Wolff: PhD Mathematical Physics / Biography - Milo Wolff - Astronomer, Electrical Engineer, retired Professor of Mathematical Physics, first formalised the Wave Structure of Matter in 1986.

Digital Video Interviews of Dr Milo Wolff on Physics and the Wave Structure of Matter - This interview between Philosopher Geoff Haselhurst and Physicist Milo Wolff on the Wave Structure of Matter was filmed in 2000 on the grounds of Berkeley University in California.

11/21/2006 12:18:00 AM  
Anonymous humblenotry said...

Chirping out this song in the air. Then maybe eat some wildseed later. Well gotta go see ya later.

Sun Arise, she come every mornin'
Sun Arise, each and every day
Sun Arise
Sun Arise, she come every mornin'
ever-y ever-y ever-y ever-y

Bringin' back the warmth to the ground.

11/21/2006 12:50:00 AM  
Blogger JBD said...

Iridescent Cuttlefish, re evolution and consciousness, have you read Maslow?

Permit me to recommend Abraham Maslow's The Further Reaches of Human Nature, published posthumously in 1971.

After championing self-actualization, Maslow zeroed in on peak experiences (oceanic, ultimate states of consciouness) and concluded that THAT was where it was AT: transformative psychopiritually therapeutic glimpses of reality unveiled.

His interest, in part, birthed transpersonal psychology. Notable because Maslow, in part, founded humanistic pychology.

More importantly, he was HOPEFUL.

A quote:
Perhaps we can see mystical or peak-fusion not only as communion with that which is most worthy of love, but also as fusion with that which is, because he belongs there, being truly part of what is, and being, so to speak, a member of the family…. And although the universe cannot be said to love the human being, it can be said at least to accept him in a nonhostile way, to permit him to endure, and to grow and, occasionally, to permit him great joy.

11/21/2006 01:51:00 AM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

JBD,
Just going back to the library today--thanks for the recommendation! (I did read Maslow when I was in school, but not the stuff that you mention.) I find it most remarkable that amidst the gloomy doom shrouding everything, these bright, even logical positivists keep shining through.

11/21/2006 09:51:00 AM  
Anonymous Silverfox said...

The answer to the question of "What is 'Reality' itself"", is always going to be far too big for the question...hmmm?

Any facts or knowledge we can accuire can only reflect our ideas or beliefs "about reality" from our own somewhat stilted perspective and physical orientation within it.

Short of dying which cannot prove anything at all in our present terms we are completely unable to separate our own entanglement with a process that begets us just as surely as it does everything else...hmmm? LOL

So we must come to first know ourselves as it alone must know us, rather than by any roundabout scientific or technological routes to somehow know or quess at it's underlying proceeses to try and logicaly answer that question for us. That simply isn't logical.

The role and the game that we play with Reality and it with us never ceases. It forms the very thought in our heads that we might catch it unawares and see it for what it is and instead all we find is our own reflection materializing on it's outer surface to completely block the view. We cannot second guess what already knows every last little intimate detail about us "in detail" ...hmmm?

We can desire the secrets of the universe as much as we like but the great door that guards them isn't going to open up untill we give it the only right answer it will ever accept for why we want to know them.

That can only ever be an individual one and of no more enlightentment than it grants that single soul untill our species mends its ways.

The distorted nature of our physical perceptions becomes readily apparent when we consider what we do "know" about quantum physics and our own stubborn inability to "believe it" in spite of that "knowledge"...hmmm?

In all truth we've really only made some modest inroads by temporarily "pretending" to believe it before we once again "revert to form" in no uncertain terms as we beat a hasty retreat from the very unsettling nature of it. A litle too close to the truth it implies for comfort at the moment I suspect.

Now virtually every belief we've ever held, right or wrong, is due to some interpretation of Reality we've always presumed to be true in order to substantiate them.

It's only when we've finally made those beliefs simply "too real to bear" for ourselves that we come to the realization that the reality we based them on no longer resembles the one we've made out of it because of those very beliefs and so we must begin yet again...hmmm? LOL

Of course these are all quite deliberate efforts on our part to try and impose limits of our own on Reality as if we might somehow understand it better by doing so and yet we never have. The closer we try to get to it the farther away it goes.

If there is any common denominator or lesson in that exercise it is that we invariably limit ourselves by trying to make Reality conform to any of our own limited ideas about it.

In the end we must always begrudgingly expand our own horizons and start all over again after finding ourselves bound and gagged and unable to move at all due to our own naievity and short-sightedness.

Of course what we continually miss or simply turn a blind eye to is that Reality has very consistently substantiated those beliefs of ours for us in the most concrete of terms and unfailingly proven them to be "demonstrably wrong" time and again in one irrefutable way or another in doing so.

That simple fact alone deserves far more consideration on our part if we are ever to know the truth about our experience both with and within it.

We do a great many things today that were simply considererd impossible, unthinkable, or simply unbelievable at one time or another. We break through such barriers all the time. Most often without the slightest intention of ever doing so. We simply stumble over yet another portion of Reality we haven't mapped that proves it is always somewhat larger than we ever believed it to be whenever we inadvertently stop to take another look at it.

So I'd like you to carefully consider that whether we call it "The Reality" or the "Real Reality", or the "Original Reality", or the "One Reality", or the "True Reality" or even the "Ulitimate Reality", it must nevertheless be all of those things and perhaps even then just a little bit more if we are to avoid the usual pitfalls in how we come to understand it.

That Reality both is and must be a seen as well as an unseen reality, a self-contained reality within which Everything and Anything that can or might possibly exist in some material way, shape, or form already firmly exists in its inner dimensions and that all those possibilities or probabilities are just every bit as real and alive as any part of it we are more familiar with.

That Reality doesn't just end at the outermost reaches of our comprehension and senses but continues on well beyond them. Even beyond the furthest reaches our minds can literally go, beyond that back door in the landscape of our imaginations, where all that comes to roam and frolic in it find their point of entry.

So between the No-Space and No-Time, and the All-Space and All-Time of the mysterious quantum realm all the information required for the complete realization of any and all of those possibilities already grants them an "existence" that is no less real than any of the ones that find their way into our experience from right among them.

That phenomenon of our experience and everthing it encompasses all takes place on the leading edge of a quite fantastic and continously breaking wave-front that never loses any of it's energy or vitality from constant creation of both ourselves and all that appears around us.

We in turn feed right back into that giant wave with all the beaking ones of own becoming and pasage through time and space.

We are each of us an "event" or more properly a nearly infinite string of them despite the limited space-time we might ever consider that string as passing through.

All is constantly in motion and constantly changing despite any appearances to the contrary. Every single iteration of our physical form is different from the one it grows from and there is neither a way nor the time to ever fathom their countless numbers in even the smallest slice of time we might ever imagine.

Our senses are completely blind when it comes to sensing their own ongoing and everchanging construction and reconstruction, they are handed off just as seamlessly and comfortably from one iteration to the next as we ourselves are.

In all honesty we can hardly be "in" as opposed to "on top" of the most perceptable of any those physical iterations in anything other than the most conceptual of terms that can encompass them all.

We are an "idea" whose time has come along with all the necessary space for that idea to be realized and explored as it in turn explores itself through all its interactions with everything else that is also becoming and doing the same thing in return at the very same time.

11/21/2006 05:07:00 PM  
Anonymous Ted in Rhode Island said...

Found another Body Snachers Moment, has to do with a frequent RI topic: systematic child exploitation.

The mayor of Atlanta has not only acknowledged abuse in her personal life, but also that the city of Atlanta has an enormous problem of child sex traffic and she's going to use her office to do something about it.
Bob Hebert covered the story in an Op-Ed piece for the NYT (BTW, NYT now wants us all to pay $50 to read Op-Ed online now) Go to Pottersville to read all about it: http://welcome-to-pottersville.blogspot.com/2006/11/bob-herbert-bought-and-sold.html

11/22/2006 10:05:00 AM  
OpenID psikeyhackr said...

Let’s just face a few simple facts.

Skyscrapers MUST hold themselves up. They must also sway in the wind. The people who design skyscrapers MUST figure out how much steel and how much concrete they are going to put on every level before they even dig the hole for the foundation.

After EIGHT YEARS why don’t we have a table specifying the TONS of STEEL and TONS of CONCRETE that were on every level of WTCs 1&2? The NIST report does not even specify the TOTAL for the concrete. The total for the steel is in three places. So even if the planes did it that 10,000 page report is CRAP!

Conspiracies are irrelevant. The Truth Movement should be marching on all of the engineering schools in the country.

Watch that Purdue simulation. If a 150 ton airliner crashes near the top of a skyscraper at 440 mph isn’t the building going to sway? Didn’t the survivors report the building “moving like a wave”? So why do the core columns in the Purdue video remain perfectly still as the plane comes in?

That is the trouble with computer simulations. If they are good, they are very good. But if they have a defect either accidental or deliberate they can be REALLY STUPID once you figure out the flaws.

The distributions of steel and concrete are going to affect the sway of a skyscraper whether it is from the wind or an airliner.

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How much does one complete floor assembly weigh?

You know those square donut floor slabs? They were 205 ft square with a rectangular hole for the core. There was a steel rebar mesh embedded in the concrete which was poured onto corrugated steel pans which were supported by 35 and 60 foot trusses. There has been talk about those things pancaking on each other for years.

But has anyone ever said what the whole thing weighed? Why haven't we seen that A LOT in EIGHT YEARS? The concrete alone is easy to compute, about 601 tons. But the concrete could not be separated from the entire assembly, the upper knuckles of the trusses were embedded into the concrete. So what did the whole thing weigh and why haven't the EXPERTS been mentioning that A LOT in EIGHT YEARS?

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So why hasn't Richard Gage and his buddies produced a table with the TONS of STEEL and TONS of CONCRETE that were on every level of the WTC? How much computing power do they have now, compared to the early 1960s when the buildings were designed? I asked Gage about that in May of 2008 at Chicago Circle Campus and he got a surprised look on his face and gave me this LAME excuse about the NIST not releasing accurate blueprints. Gravity hasn't changed since the 1960s. They should be able to come up with some reasonable numbers.

12/29/2009 01:21:00 PM  
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