Wednesday, March 14, 2007

Outside the Box



Can you please crawl out your window?
Use your arms and legs it won't ruin you - Bob Dylan


Though it's hard to think outside the box, once you do, you may need to think outside that box as well.

The box of Gerry Irwin

On February 28, 1959, Private First Class Gerry Irwin was en route from Nampa, Idaho back to Fort Bliss, Texas, where he served as a Nike missile technician. Late that evening, as he turning southeast on Route 14 around Cedar City, Utah, the sky was illuminated by a brilliant object crossing the sky in front of him. He pulled to the side of the road, got out of his car and watched it disappear behind a nearby ridge. Irwin thought he had witnessed an aircraft in trouble. Writing "Stop" on the side of his car with shoe polish he left a note attached to the steering wheel: "Have gone to investigate possible plane crash. Please call law enforcement officers."

On March 2, Irwin awoke in Cedar City Hospital, with no idea of what had happened to him or how he had got there. He had been unconscious since he was found, only an hour and a half after leaving his car, occasionally mumbling about a "jacket on the bush." His temperature and respiration were normal; it was simply as though Irwin were asleep and couldn't be woken. At last when he did, he felt fine, though his first words upon sitting up in bed were, "Were there any survivors?"

Irwin was informed he had been found alone, jacketless, and there was no sign of a crash. He was diagnosed with "hysteria" and flown to Fort Bliss, where he was placed under medical observation for four days, after which he returned to active duty but with his security clearance revoked. Several days later he fainted, though quickly recovered, and did again a few days later in El Paso, and was taken to hospital. Early the next morning he woke up and again said, "Were there any survivors?" He could not believe it was March 16; he thought it was still February 28.

Once more he returned to base, this time in psychiatric care for a month. He was discharged April 17, with test results showing "normal," but the next day gave in to an uncontrollable impulse to depart the base without leave, and caught a bus in El Paso for Cedar City, from where he walked to the spot of his sighting, left the road and went straight to a branch upon which his jacket still hung. And something was on his jacket. A pencil was stuck in a buttonhole, and a piece of paper was wound tightly around it. Irwin took the paper and burned it, and then seemingly snapped out of his entrancement. He had difficulty finding the road again, and not knowing what he was doing there, turned himself in to the local sheriff, who told him the story of his earlier episode.

Back at Fort Bliss he again underwent psychiatric examination, with identical results. Upon being released from camp hospital, he failed to report for duty August 1. He hasn't been seen since.

Irwin's story has been called "one of the strangest, most baffling cases in UFO folklore," but I disagree. Not only have I read stranger, I don't think this is even a UFO story.

Every UFOlogical account I've read of Irwin's case treats the military backstory to it as incidental. But Irwin was a missile technician on the base which, post-war and and Cold War, was a hub for Paperclip scientists, including Werner Von Braun, who integrated Nazi innovations into US military technologies. (Here's a class picture of Fort Bliss's German rocket team, which initially was restricted to base without military escort.) And we know, as well as rocketry, the Nazi scientists also brought to American proving grounds their advanced work in mind control.

Irwin "snapped out of it" after burning the paper, as though releasing himself from a hypnotic suggestion that had driven him to return to Cedar City (where, for what it's worth, alleged mind control survivor "Mauri" claims began her abuse by a privileged cult of Satanic Nazis). The only tenuous UFO connection is Irwin's claim to have seen a bright object transversing the sky, though it looked to him no stranger than an aircraft in trouble. And given the tricks his mind was playing, or the tricks someone was playing on his mind, perhaps we shouldn't assume there was anything to see at all. There were no other witnesses, and no evidence of a landing.

Was Irwin the unwitting subject of an experiment in mind control? Could be. Even though I'm persuaded of a UFOlogical reality that transcends hoaxes and cover stories, I think the confluence of military research and psychological trauma in the Irwin case are far more suggestive of a fairly sinister and secretive human agency. UFO researchers are probably guilty of confirmation bias by counting this story as legitimately one of theirs, and it may be hard to let it go, but I think the Irwin episode more likely belongs to a different, though often parallel, narrative.

The box of Fatima

Fatima is an interesting set of nested puzzle boxes that naturally predates any attempt to incorporate it into a military mind control narrative. But what is it?

To the Roman Catholic faithful it represents a Marian miracle. Skeptics, outside that box, regard it as mass hysteria. Joe Nickel, Senior Research Fellow of CSICOP, says of Fatima's dramatic "Miracle of the Sun" that "the effects were surely optical ones. For example, because one cannot focus on an object so bright, the eyes may dart back and forth, thus creating, by the effect of image and after-image, the appearance that the sun is 'dancing,' or the eyes may attempt to focus, retreat, again attempt, and so on, thereby giving the illusion that the sun was 'pulsating.'"

CSICOP's rational box will not allow for a third interpretation, which I considered two years ago in this post, and that I think makes better sense of the evidence by being honestly strange enough to account for it.

The "sun," which appeared out of a small cloud and had the appearance of a dull silvery disc, descended in "slow zigzags," according to Father Alves Vieira, quoted in Basiago and Thompson's Heavenly Lights. The object, which unlike the sun could be looked at without discomfort, moved in the rhythm "of a dry leaf that falls from trees in Autumn." Vieira could not know that he was also describing a maneuver which would become common to UFO sightings before the mid-1970s. For instance, on September 19, 1952, an RAF squadron observed a silver disk in the sky above one of their fighters. In a report submitted by Flight Lieutenant John Kilburn, he described it beginning to descend, "swinging in a pendular motion similar to a falling sycamore leaf" before accelerating into the west at "unbelievable" speed. (Curiously, the bizarre entities of the "Hopkinsville incident" were said to float gently to the ground in a falling leaf fashion after being shot, to no other effect, by members of the terrified Sutton family.)

The box of 9/11

9/11 has so many boxes, and more all the time, those might as well have been FedEx planes spilling Lament Configurations all over Lower Manhattan.

One of the arguments that something other than Flight 77 struck the Pentagon is the report of elevated levels of radiation downwind of the site following September 11. It was first proposed by nuclear weapons professionals and the former head of the Pentagon's depleted uranium project, who allege the readings suggest that impacting object was a DU-tipped missile.

"I'm not an explosives or crash site expert," says Leuren Moret, former staff scientist at Livermore Nuclear Weapons Laboratory, "but I am highly knowledgeable in causes and effects related to nuclear radiation contamination. What happened at the Pentagon is highly suspicious, leading me to believe a missile with a depleted uranium warhead may have been used."

And to missile proponents, that's good enough to confirm a missile. After pulling themselves free of the Official Box, they think they're in the clear. But freethinkers, as much as anyone, need to ask themselves whether their thoughts are their their own, or if they find themselves in yet another box.

The crash of El Al Flight 1862 into an Amsterdam apartment block created a similarly toxic site, when its secret cargo, containing the equivalent of 270 kilograms of sarin gas and at least 800 kilograms of depleted uranium was disgorged. Thousands of rescue and recovery workers experienced health complaints, including symptoms of radiation sickness. Yet no one, in my reading, has used this as an argument that a cruise missile struck the building.

So what accounts for the elevated radiation readings at the Pentagon? Well, perhaps Flight 77 departed Washington bearing something that wasn't supposed to be there. Commercial aircraft, even passenger aircraft, have been co-opted by military to serve as mules before. Or perhaps the Pentagon wall which was struck - the only wall which had just then been reconditioned to better withstand terrorist attack - actually incorporated the extremely hard and dense metal in its composition. Either could be possible, and other explanations as well, which are more likely than the boxed-in assumption of a DU-tipped missile. (An assumption, as we've noted, that is championed by veterans of military intelligence. And if that doesn't make you at least wary that the hypothesis may serve another purpose than the truth, what is it going to take?)

Then there's the "fat Osama" video. It could be, maybe, he wasn't that fat after all. Perhaps the discrepancy in his appearance is accounted for by a failure to correct the aspect ratio of PAL to NTSC video conversion. If so, perhaps "fat Osama" has been a box for us all along, to keep us from considering the implications of the video's content and the circumstances of its creation. Bryan Sacks makes an interesting case here why "the true backstory of the tape's creation may provide smoking-gun evidence of US foreknowledge and complicity in the 9/11 attack." If so, then while we've been clucking over the obvious artifice of "fat Osama," we've missed its point, which was its purpose all along. And if so, and we're too enamored of fat Osama to ever let him go, then we'll keep on missing it, too.

So what's my point?

Critical thinking isn't instinctual. We shouldn't presume, in our disdain of the official story (whatever story that may be, and however official), that we've reached the truth once we stand with it's official opposition, because we may be either boxing ourselves in with rigid either/or thinking, or be boxed in by the authorities who mean to control both thesis and antithesis.

We should know that some boxes feel like home. They're meant to feel that way.

116 Comments:

Blogger Rafting Bear said...

In my book Midnight Harvest, I noted that in the "miracles" of Fatima, Lourdes, and Guadalupe, the being that appeared to the percipients in each case described herself as "The Lady From Heaven", not as Mary or as the Mother of God.

Of course, Midnight Harvest is science fiction so I made one of the characters the very alien (Plieadian) who periodically shows up as the star of these "miracles". And her ship is the one that appears to be the falling Sun at Fatima.

3/14/2007 12:21:00 PM  
Blogger paul_mic said...

Jeff, I think your blog is great & your posts about metaphysical / conspiratorial subjects like this are extremely thought-provoking.I'm glad that you temper the fantastic with the rational. Thanks & keep digging...

"10 False Flags That Changed the World"

"The Anti-Christ Archetype"

3/14/2007 12:22:00 PM  
Blogger Dr. Bombay said...

Jeff...
I'm not sure if I agree with
your statement that if someone
from inside militay intel said
it, it must be disinfo. If that
is true, and we have lost the
armed sevices as a stop gap to
what might be in store for us,
then (insert the deity of your
choice here) help us all.

3/14/2007 01:40:00 PM  
Blogger lemme howdt said...

how deep do we wish to question the knowledge base? the ability to enjoy a certain box leads to a tunnel vision from the perspective of that box. The widespread use of uranium is a trigger for random energy release, which may be driving the rapid evolution of knowledge application. One of the benefits of having everybody in the same box, like the corn ethanol box, is that nobody is probing the intricacies of the other boxes. what happens when tesla's work becomes of interest, when the world is built in an edisonian frame? just another box with more assumption that are rarely re-evaluated in terms of what we find after the experiment.

and what a grand experiment it is, with nobody at the controls from an outside the box perspective. thanks again for the insight, Jeff

3/14/2007 01:52:00 PM  
Blogger Jeff said...

dr bombay said,

"I'm not sure if I agree with
your statement that if someone
from inside militay intel said
it, it must be disinfo."


I don't think I'd put it as stark as that. I wouldn't say "must be," because we're talking about people not automatons, but I think a military intel background ought to send up a big, red flag, regardless of their message.

3/14/2007 01:59:00 PM  
Blogger et in Arcadia ego Eve said...

Jeff – as a very devout traditional Catholic (easily distinguishable from “Newchurch” of Vatican II), and well studied on Fatima, I must caution you when drawing parallels between Fatima and anything related to the military-occult complex. The appearances of Fatima which occurred between May 13, 1917 and October 13, 1917 have been closely analyzed, scrutinized and authenticated by hundreds of traditional, prominent Catholic theologians and prelates, not just the Pope of that time. And Newchurch has tried desperately to suppress the message of Fatima.

There is no doubt that the intelligence responsible for Fatima is authentic and is of the opposite ilk as that which operates out of the military-occult complex and profits off the current Marian hoax known as Medjugorje. It has been mentioned here before that Henry Kissinger owns a large stake in the bank of Medjugorje which financed the construction of the chapel before the so-called Medjugorje apparitions even began. The “seers” have long been suspected of being mind-controlled just as the monarch slaves are.

Also, you should note regarding Fatima that the approximately 80,000 individuals who witnessed the miracle of the sun were all soaking wet from the downpour of rain. In a matter of minutes, the miracle of the sun not only dried their clothes completely, but the deep puddles and mud they stood in vanished as well. This too is documented in historical texts which unfortunately are not available on via the internet.

I would encourage you to study more about the changes of Vatican II, the Medjugorje hoax, and their close ties to the Masonic desire to usher in control via the one world religion. It is no coincidence that a powerful Freemason, Annibale Bugnini was responsible for designing the new mass that Catholics have been forced to embrace since the late 1960’s

3/14/2007 02:21:00 PM  
Blogger Jeff said...

No, I don't think Fatima is a military-occult concoction. My contention is that it shares so many points of congruity with legit UFO phenomena that, as I said in the original Fatima post, both may reflect mechanisms of social control by non-human agents.

3/14/2007 02:30:00 PM  
Blogger et in Arcadia ego Eve said...

Well Jeff....Heaven is definitely a non-human agency, but they don't try to control our free-will.

Fatima was a warning, almost identical to her appearance and message at La Salette in 1846...also a dire warning.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Salette

People generally find the semantics of Heaven/Hell to be overly simplistic for complicated subject matter but ultimately it does just all boil down to legitimate higher intelligence vs. illegitimate higher intelligence.

3/14/2007 02:50:00 PM  
Blogger Shrubageddon said...

Arcadia,

What kind of Higher Intelligence/God could allow the carnage known as humanity to continue? What kind of force could this be to sit by idly and watch as its creation destroys its creation....all in the name of free will?

Give me a break....and believe me, I've been there. It is Bullshit, plain and simple. I can't believe you continue to buy into their shit. It's not free will if your defiance yields you torment for eternity....what the hell (pun intended) kind of choice is that?

No thanks....I opted out of that charade long ago...and it was a difficult opt out. I was harangued by demonic nightmares for at least a year before things finally settled down. I was brainwashed...there is no doubt about it, and apparently you are too if you swallow their swill.

Otherwise, excellent post, Jeff. Many of the sentiments I conveyed in the prior thread are reflected in your rhetoric. On this issue, we seem to be in agreement....well, for that matter, there are few issues we are not in agreement, except for how we define "nonsense." ;-)

3/14/2007 03:14:00 PM  
Blogger et in Arcadia ego Eve said...

shrub - I assure you I am not brainwashed, nor do I proclaim to know or question the mind of God, but thank you for reading. Visit with me anytime.

And thanks Jeff for allowing these subjects to intertwine as they should.

3/14/2007 03:33:00 PM  
Blogger Hal Blake said...

What's the connection of Pope John XXIII with Vatican II? I had always though of John as someone very admirable.

3/14/2007 03:44:00 PM  
Blogger just_another_dick said...

While I'm neither a believer or sceptic in the CSICOP mode , I do find the subject fascinating.
I don't know if you're a Fortean Times reader or not so I'm going to reproduce bits from an excellent article by Jenny Randles that I think you'd find interesting.

"Over the years, I have met some fascinating witnesses. Jenny, for instance, was a care worker in a children's home; I met her in West Yorkshire at the site of her extraordinary encounter, which had taken place in late November 1978 as she walked down the track on the way home from a spot of horse riding. She relived the vivid memory for me 20 years later.
What first intrigued me was how she and her pet dog had become aware that there was something strange directly overhead. There was no sound or light, just a subtle sensation that "touched" the mind. Both Jenny and her dog turned heavenward to see the grey mass surrounded by a misty sheen just floating overhead. Whatever had attracted their attention was not on a conscious level, but was felt, as Jenny put it, like a "tickle" inside her soul.
Such a starting point for a close encounter is not rare. I have many times heard witnesses tell me that "something just made me look up at this thing." I should emphasise that when the UFO is a mis-perception-of an aircraft or a laser light show, for example-this effect rarely applies. Such cases are sightings-largely unemotional events that you either witness or do not. What we are discussing here are UFO experiences in which the witness and the phenomenon merge in a sort of spiritual blur.
That such experiences followed a pattern was evident early in my research, because many witnesses were telling me the same thing. They were attracted by some unknown sensory nuance, then they felt a kind of dissociation, almost becoming detached from reality, and a unique bond opened up between the UFO and themselves. "we were joined at the soul," jenny told me, echoing similar words from many others.
Further clues have emerged, again exemplified by Jenny: "This thing spoke to me...It did so in a voice that you use when you are thinking...It was less a voice, more a knowing...It became a religious experience." When it left she felt emotionally drained and cried."

-snip-

"Another clue came from a reporter from a local newspaper, who, after interviewing me, wanted to share something odd. He had once seen a UFO over a Lancashire town, but what baffled him far more than this was the efect that it had on his memory-he forgot about it immediately afterwards. Only later was there any recall, triggered by something that jogged it back into consciousness. Then, with this memory, came a certainty: he had known he was going to see the UFO before he did so."

-snip-

"So what does this mean? Well, we all experience something that shares many of these same features: the dreams that we have each night.
These only enter our conscious memory if we make an effort to retain them-perhaps by writing them down. Otherwise, they are part of that other, transient, memory store that is out of reach to our conscious recall-the starnge, magical and little understood place that we call the subconscious.
UFOs speak in the voice of our 'thinking mind';
encounters with them can make a witness dissociate; they seem not to be experienced or recalled on the same conscious level as events in our day-to-day- lives; and they trigger unexpected emotions buried within ourselves. UFO events are creatures of the subconscious.
Does this imply that these episodes are not 'real'? If we're taliking about alien spaceships transversing the universe, it probably does. But these are constructions of another order; they have to have some value, and we dismiss them at our peril. If someone sees something that you do not, then it may be the product of his or her imagination-or it may be that your own imagination fails to see what is really there."

Also, I'll link to the Dr. David Clark article that
touches on the demonic aspects of these real/unreal phenomena.

http://www.forteantimes.com/articles/211_ufosfromhell1.shtml

3/14/2007 03:50:00 PM  
Blogger BTB said...

Hi Jeff. I've been following your blog for some time now.

An interesting decision, that: to illustrate your latest post with what appears to be Pinhead's Lament Configuration. There is something deeply resonant about this motif, as I have attempted to explain in one of my own recent articles. Rosslyn: Between Two Worlds

Thanks for your work, Jeff.

3/14/2007 03:55:00 PM  
Blogger et in Arcadia ego Eve said...

Hal Blake, Roncalli was a good man, known to be kind and generous etc., but he was monoglot, born of peasants and theologically ignorant. In personal interviews with prelates present at the Vatican II council, it has been recorded that he hoped Vatican II would be likened to a second (political) Pentecost of sorts. He insisted that the Russians have a presence for geopolitical purposes having nothing to do with spiritual grace.

For this discussion it is worth noting that Fatima requested that the Pope of 1960 reveal the Third Secret and consecrate Russia, together with all the bishops of the word, to her Immaculate Heart. Roncalli refused however, saying “the message is not for our time” concerning himself more with the political implication of consecrating Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary as being interpreted by Nikita Khrushchev as an act of war.

3/14/2007 04:15:00 PM  
Blogger Christopher said...

Jeff, your idea of "boxes" is very cool. You are, increasingly, in this blog describing the world of paradox. If we persist in viewing the world from outside the box we will find boxes and this opens us up to a further change. It should be obvious to those that don't automatically accept what is called consensus reality that there are dimensions of life that we are not able to penetrate unless we ourselves merge with the a kind of consciousness that can see (not the right word at all perhaps "grok" is better) in multiple dimensions. The mysteries you so ably and courageously pursue (it must be very disorienting for you) demand a dramatic shift in consciousness to be comprehended. Are UFOs a government operation or the rise of some deep power based within the earth itself or is it a projection of fears and longings that lie in the collective unconscious? Or are UFOs indeed probes from some far-away planetary system that are on a Star-trek-like mission? Perhaps it is all a hoax? Perhaps it is Hermes the Trickster (as Keith Thompson wrily suggested in Angels and Aliens), perhaps it is the manifestation of a group of Rishis in the Himalayas making a Zen joke--perhaps we are part of a highly successful galactic reality-TV comedy show.

What we can say with certainty about these strange stories is that we have no way of knowing, using conventional views of reality, anything anything very definitive about them--I include 9/11 here as well (I think it's very insightful of you to see the many layers of possibilities there). We have no other choice, ladies and gentlemen, but to expand our consciousness. Of course some people enjoy the rush of being confused--I know I did once.

3/14/2007 04:41:00 PM  
Blogger Jeff said...

BTB said,

"An interesting decision, that: to illustrate your latest post with what appears to be Pinhead's Lament Configuration."

Thanks. And now you mention it, I'm going to edit the post to add a reference to it....

3/14/2007 04:43:00 PM  
Blogger Mark said...

Continuing the Pentagon and WTC radiation issue from the previous thread, Jeff addresses only the Pentagon side (with only one quote), and without touching on the WTC radiation.

Pentagon

Jeff said:

"One of the arguments that something other than Flight 77 struck the Pentagon is the report of elevated levels of radiation downwind of the site following September 11."

Crafty. Crafty. Crafty instead of rigorous. Once more, it was more than simply "downwind."

EPA got back to Moret and confirmed it at the Pentagon. And we've all seen the strange wash off station they quickly set up at the Pentagon.

Back to Jeff:

"It was first proposed by nuclear weapons professionals and the former head of the Pentagon's depleted uranium project, who allege the readings suggest that impacting object was a DU-tipped missile.

"I'm not an explosives or crash site expert," says Leuren Moret, former staff scientist at Livermore Nuclear Weapons Laboratory, "but I am highly knowledgeable in causes and effects related to nuclear radiation contamination. What happened at the Pentagon is highly suspicious, leading me to believe a missile with a depleted uranium warhead may have been used."


Crafty. Crafty. Crafty. Once more, cherrypicking is not a rigorous way to operate. The context of the fuller quote Jeff leaves out is that it is far more than only Moret, and far more was said, and it was far more than Moret and Rokke's opinions. There are many cross confirmations of physical evidence of radiation you leave out:

"Dr. Moret, who has spent a life time working in the nuclear field, first as a staff scientist at the Livermore Nuclear Weapons Laboratory in California, is now a member of The Radiation and Public Health Project (RPHP), a privately funded group studying the devastating effects of depleted uranium especially in Iraq and Afghanistan. On September 11, 2001, she and another doctor connected with the Radiation And Public Health Project, and thus very familiar about DU and the federal government war crimes over it, tell each other "Get out of town, and don't come back until it has rained three times." Dr. Moret explained that one of her compatriots lived 12 miles downwind from the Pentagon. Dr. Moret asked her compatriot to go out on her balcony with her geiger counter. She said, "Get that geiger counter out of your purse. We had just done a press conference in San Francisco, and I knew she had it in her purse. Well, the radiation levels were 8-10 times higher than background." Armed with this information, the Radiation and Public Health Project called the EPA, HAZMAT, FBI, and said, "Get all those emergency response workers suited up. They need to be protected." [Jeff starts his cherrypicking quote here only, ignoring the basis for her quote, as well as ignoring other radiation sampling witnesses. -->] "I'm not an explosives or crash site expert, but I am highly knowledgeable in causes and effects related to nuclear radiation contamination. What happened at the Pentagon is highly suspicious, leading me to believe a missile with a depleted uranium warhead may have been used," said radiation expert Leuren Moret in a telephone conversation this week from her Berkeley, CA home.

[2] 12 miles away: Working with Dr. Moret, "Dr. Sherman was downwind from the Pentagon on 9/11 and her Geiger counter readings show an extremely high reading, a reading of more than eight to ten times higher than normal," said Moret, also an expert in the cause and effects of depleted uranium. "Dr. Sherman, who is well-respected radiation expert herself, then went about contacting the proper authorities in order to try and alert emergency responders of the radiation risk at the Pentagon crash site. And we have also kept photos of the Geiger counter readings in order to verify what Dr. Sherman found 12 miles away."

[3] September 13, 2001: The federal EPA thanks them, and concurring with
Dr. Moret and associates that there was radiation at the Pentagon. EPA
even called them back two days later! Quoting from Dr. Moret's interview: "The EPA radiation expert for that region called back and said, 'Yup, the Pentagon crash rubble was radioactive, and we believe its depleted uranium, but were not worried about that. Its only harmful if its inhaled.' [hahahaah] He said, 'We're worried about the lead solder in the plane.' [Dr. Moret's educated opinion, since she is very aware about DU: "Well, you know what's in Tomahawk missiles? They have depleted uranium warheads. The radioactive crash rubble contaminated with DU is evidence of a DU warhead."] [excerpted from: http://www.iconoclast-texas.com/News/19news03.htm] I note that EPA was clear to her that it was a DU hit on the Pentagon.

[4] seven miles south: During the week following 9-11-01, American Free Press has documentation that radiation levels in Alexandria and Leesburg, Va., were much higher than usual on 9-11. They persisted for at least one week afterward. In Alexandria, seven miles south of the burning Pentagon, a doctor with years of experience working with radiation issues found elevated radiation levels on 9-11 of 35 to 52 counts per minute (cpm) using a "Radalert 50" Geiger counter.

[5] 33 miles northwest: After a week from 9-11-01, still there were high radiation levels noticed even further from the Pentagon. In Leesburg, 33 miles northwest of the Pentagon, soil readings taken in a residential neighborhood showed even higher readings of 75 to 83 cpm. "That's pretty high," Cindy Folkers of the Washington-based Nuclear Information and Resource Service (NIRS) told AFP. Folkers said 7 to 12 cpm is normal background radiation inside the NIRS building, and that outdoor readings of between 12 to 20 cpm are normal in Chevy Chase, Md., outside Washington. The Radalert 50, Folkers said, is primarily a gamma ray detector and "detects only 7 percent of the beta radiation and even less of the [very short lived] alpha." This suggests that actual radiation levels may have been significantly higher than those detected by the doctor's Geiger counter. "The question is, why?" Folkers said. If the radiation came from the explosion and fire at the Pentagon, as the EPA confirmed on the scene, it most likely did not come from a Boeing 757, which is the type of aircraft the federal government alleges hit the building. Why is that?

[6] Because Boeing said so! "Boeing has never used DU on either the 757 or the 767, and we no longer use it on the 747," Leslie M. Nichols, product spokesperson for Boeing's 767, told AFP. The "official story" of 9-11 is thus contradicted once more--since the federal allegation is that the Pentagon hit was a Boeing 757. Boeing confirms the federal allegation is untrue since such a plane hit would not produce the radioactivity." ...

[7] Rumsfeld even talks about a missile hitting the Pentagon a month and a day after 9-11-01, despite contradicting his own administration's official story about the Pentagon hit: "It is a truth that a terrorist can attack
any time, any place, using any technique and it's physically impossible to defend at every time and every place against every conceivable technique. Here we're talking about plastic knives and using an American Airlines flight filled with our citizens, and the MISSILE to damage this building
and similar (inaudible) that damaged the World Trade Center. The only way
to deal with this problem is by taking the battle to the terrorists,
wherever they are, and dealing with them." --- Donald Rumsfeld answering
Parade Magazine reporter Lyric Wallwork Winik in Pentagon Press Conference Oct.12, 2001. (Posted on the Pentagon website)

[8] Media pictures of radiation scrub down exist for first responders to the Pentagon on 9-11-01.

[9] [And the fuller Rokke quote is far more evidentiary based than Jeff's unnamed use of him above entails:] Instead of a witness per se, an expert ex-Pentagon official on DU: Regarding the missile theory, it is also backed up by retired Army Maj. Doug Rokke, a PhD educational physics and former top military expert banished from the Pentagon after the military failed to follow regulations regarding the use, clean up and medical treatment regarding the use of depleted uranium. "When you look at the whole thing, especially the crash site void of airplane parts, the size of the hole left in the building and the fact the projectile's impact penetrated numerous concrete walls, it looks like the work of a missile," said Maj. Rokke from his Rantoul, IL home this week. "And when you look at the damage, it was obviously a missile. Also, if you look at the WTC and the disturbing flash hitting the tower right before the impact of the airplane, it also looks like a missile was used."


Thus Jeff said after discussing only one cherrypicked half quote, remarks:

"And to missile proponents, that's good enough to confirm a missile."

No. Well, er, you leave out more than you integrate. You leave out something other than a Boeing 757 seems to have burrowed through three levels of steel reinforced concrete, and you leave out that the fuselage of a Boeing 757 was not in the exit hole three levels into the Pentagon either.

Nothing related to a Boeing 757 was ever found at the Pentagon, particularly given that the hole evidence physically is much smaller than a presumed Boeing 757 would have created. In other words, there is a lot more going on than your assumption of it all coming from "de-evidentialzed" Moret quote.

Back to Jeff:

"After pulling themselves free of the Official Box, they think they're in the clear. But freethinkers, as much as anyone, need to ask themselves whether their thoughts are their their own, or if they find themselves in yet another box.

The crash of El Al Flight 1862 into an Amsterdam apartment block created a similarly toxic site, when its secret cargo, containing the equivalent of 270 kilograms of sarin gas and at least 800 kilograms of depleted uranium was disgorged. Thousands of rescue and recovery workers experienced health complaints, including symptoms of radiation sickness. Yet no one, in my reading, has used this as an argument that a cruise missile struck the building."


It's easy to dismiss this assumption, Jeff, because it certainly wasn't a Boeing 757, so we can dismiss Jeff's contention that the Boeing 757 might have been secretly loaded with something radioactive because the Boeing never made it back to the Pentagon after disappearing over SE Ohio.

Second, AA77 the official story's 'Pentagon plane', wasn't even scheduled for 9-11 to fly. According to the federal Bureau of Transportation, both AA11 (the official story's WTC1 hit) and AA77 (the official story's Pentagon hit) both were not scheduled for 9-11 to fly.

So since there are witnesses for seeing 'something claiming to be AA11' (actually two different gates had a fake AA11 at Boston that morning, one rather empty one that took all the passengers), and there was definitely 'something as AA77' on the ground elsewhere, both were on the ground substitutions, placing the regular ones out of queue and unscheduled for that day, from Bureau of Transportation evidence itself.

Holmgren's article is useful on the unsheduled AA11 and AA77 issue. It can be can be found in various places, called "What really happened to American Airlines Flights 11 and 77 on Sept 11, 2001," by Gerard Homgren 8:44am Thu Nov 13 '03
aa1177_3@hotmail.com. So:

"The flights alleged to have hit the Nth [north] WTC[1] tower and the Pentagon did not exist. They were not scheduled to fly that day.... The Bureau of transportation website contains search pages, where one can pull up detailed statistics about the history of which flights have been scheduled for which airports on any given day. ...[O]ne can search records of scheduled and actual departure times, arrival times, diversions and cancellations by departure airport, arrival airport, airline and flight number. [They changed the format to stop this kind of searching immediately after Holmgren's article.] Searches for Sept 11 2001 reveal that the flights AA 11 and AA 77 did not exist. They were not scheduled that day."

Holmgren additionally argues that since UAL175 was doing a parallel fight to the 'unscheduled AA11' flight that morning, the passengers were told they were to be booked to their destinations on UAL175 conveniently. (This is dispite there being two separate gates where an unscheduled AA11 existed on 9-11, one rather crowded, and one empty.)

"This still leaves unanswered the question of what happened to the passengers alleged to be aboard the non existent flights. In the case of AA 77, while one can always speculate about the most plausible scenarios, I prefer to wait until some real evidence emerges. However in the case of AA 11, I think it is worth noting that UA 175 left from the same airport, at the same time for the same destination as that normally applicable to AA 11.

Therefore, although there is no direct evidence to support the claim, it would seem reasonable to speculate at this stage that any passengers who were regular fliers on AA 11, and asked to booked on it that day, went to the airport, expecting to get on AA 11, as per the normal routine. They were then told that there was a last minute problem with the flight which could not be fixed within a reasonable period of time, and were offered a flight on UA 175 as compensation."


The 'not-scheduled-to-fly AA77', the so called 'Pentagon plane' was full of strange coterie of black operatives, from the flight roster.

Now Updated:No Arabs on Flight 77: Part II -The Passengers
author: www.sierratimes.com/
Thomas R. Olmsted, M.D

"More of a summary and some questions about the passengers from flight 77. Intelligence, navy, remote flight technology experts, and their backgrounds. List obtained through a FOIA request.

And the unscheduled AA77 full of these black operatives was piloted by Chuck Burlingame--recently "retired" of the Pentagon himself only a year or so earlier.

While still working at the Pentagon, Burlingame seems to have been involved in the "airline terrorism drill" that modelled in advance what happens when a hijacked airline crashes into the Pentagon. This was the October 24-26, 2000, "Pentagon Mass Casualty Exercise" which called for modelling what happens to Pentagon response when a hijacked airline crashes into the Pentagon.

Then it seems Burlingame 'retires'. He takes a commercial pilot position with American Airlines.

Burlingame, "Mr. airline terror drill"'s plane of all planes is the official story's plane that crashes into the Pentagon on 9-11. This is despite the fact that when he would have reported to American Airlines that morning, he would have been told that his AA77 plane was unscheduled for that day. I guess he just takes whatever unscheduled AA77 is lying around available on the tarmac that happens to be filled with black operatives personnel, according to FOIA filings by Thomas R. Olmsted, M.D.

And moreover, the "Pentagon strike" shockwave flash video which summarizes several other points.

Presumably, Burlingame's unscheduled AA77 takes off filled with these black operatives, and really disappeared somewhere over Ohio.

Then something far more maneuverable and smaller headed back toward toward the Pentagon, without the flight transponder (which identifies a particular plane with a commercial flight code--its still available to see on radar, only as a nameless blip however).

This nameless blip starts flying back to the Pentagon around 8:59 a.m., just about the moment when the Pentagon that morning moved to Alpha Alert from 9:00 a.m., starting a scheduled "terror attack drill".

Instead of the transponderless 'thing' diving down into the Pentagon, it flies past the Pentagon, and then at the right moment takes a perfect spiral executed curve down like a corkscrew to hit on a dime on the opposite side of the Pentagon--the side it had already passed, and the only side that the Pentagon had recently saw fit to reinforce. Strange, what were they doing? Expecting that a terror strike would only hit a reinforced side of the building? I guess so.

The official conspiracy theory is that 'hijacker' Hani Hanjour was flying.

However, he couldn't fly a small two seater plane, according to the flight school where he appeared to lay down the (false) seeds of "terror training flight schools". Moreover, he wasn't on the official flight roster of the AA77 for that day released by the government.

So Hani couldn't fly AA77 if his life depended upon it, and he wasn't on the plane anyway. And the plane he supposedly was flying, AA77, wasn't even scheduled for that day.

Play, Stream, or Download the short 5 minute, "
Pentagon Strike
" film:
http://www.pentagonstrike.co.uk/pentagon.htm

Once more you are being crafty and selective instead of rigorous.

There is a lot more evidence than the selective nugget you pick out here to discuss exclusively.

All in all the unknown thing that came back without a transponder was something different. It probably delivered a a DU-tippled missile, non-exclusively (perhaps to cordite explosive as noted by a Pentagon worker), given the issues you ignore, and blew itself up into shrapnel after doing so. This explains why the Pentalawn was quickly covered over with an additional foot or more of sand, dirt, and gravel--after the FBI quickly organized to walk a line a pick up little tiny pieces of things off the lawn in front of the only reinforced side of the Pentagon.

Even though what 'it' was is open to conjecture, for something to burrow through all that concrete, and leave such a radioactive cloud noticeable downwind and at the Pentagon for days, shows something not nessarily utilizing something with very 'dirty' radiation, and more temporary.

WTCs's Radiation

Off to the WTCs. Jeff, you leave out the WTC radiation issue.

Merely quoting Ward in one among many radioactive WTC issues, in his updated 03/14/07 article, "Update: The US Government’s Usage of Atomic Bombs - Domestic - WTC,"

"The Elevated Tritium Levels:

The "well below levels of concern to human exposure" and "7 times less than the EPA limit" of Tritium in the environment are in actuality 27 to 35 times higher than should have been found in one sample, and 21 to 28 times higher than should have been found in the other sample.

In spite of this fact it was deemed that no other testing was needed.

Ignoring the levels found in WTC 6 which were 30 times what should have been found, the sewer water contained 0.164 minus the standard environment range of 0.13[.] [T]here is at least 0.034 more activity than should have been found after having been diluted 120 million times.

This does not count the other areas of contamination levels inside the WTC that were 20 times that amount of Tritium activity and were diluted by varying amounts of 16 million liters of water.
...

Perhaps, if the "scientists" had spent a little more time on reporting/evaluating what they were supposed to be doing rather than hedging, leading and biasing the information, they might have been able to report relevant and correct information.

...

All of the facts presented regarding Tritium were taken from this government report. [link]"


And given that AA11 was unscheduled for that day, it couldn't hit the north face of the WTC1. Something else did.

And given that UAL175 was scheduled, though given that pictures and witnesses show it wasn't UAL175 approaching WTC2 (the 'pod' issue; the offset engines like an Air Force fuel tanker Boeing plane; that "no windows" were noted on the WTC2 hit plane; that something flashed against the WTC2 face before 'it' entered the building, just like the flash against the face of WTC1 before something entered on that side)

All that is addressed here though:

911: In Plane Site - The Directors Cut
Full High Quality Video
Bridgestone Media Group
1 hr 12 min

[This film has perhaps been]..."seen by perhaps as many as 50 MILLION people worldwide. Has shown on National TV stations in over a dozen different countries..."

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5386487651203625811

3/14/2007 05:39:00 PM  
Blogger Jeff said...

"911: In Plane Site - The Directors Cut"

Does this one include bloopers of vonKleist saying "'Pods'? No fucking way!" Because I'll watch that.

3/14/2007 07:03:00 PM  
Blogger nerdmann said...

it is my understanding that airliners are or were at that time, using depleted uranium as balast.

3/14/2007 07:44:00 PM  
Blogger ericswan said...

IC.. (seething) in agony are we? The problem with your box analysis is not so much being in or out, it's the corners.
Mark..you point out that the attack was to the far side of the Pentagon building which is the side furthest away from the Potamac River. The initial construction of the Pentagon was over a swamp and the side of the attack would have been the dry side if you look at the building in the context of the river. My point here is that the dry side would have facilitated "something" underground on that side. Piercing the building with very little damage doesn't seem to be the actual target for the missile. Something underground was and it was disrupted by an emp weapon whose effects were noted by a few as lights brightened and dimmed at the time of the attack. Now does that sound like an insider thingy? Maybe.

3/14/2007 08:09:00 PM  
Blogger Shrubageddon said...

The problem with your box analysis is not so much being in or out, it's the corners.

Okay...how about a sphere within a sphere within a sphere...or a sphere connected to a sphere connected to a sphere connected to a sphere? Or, the spheres don't have to be connected at all...the correct one arrives when you've located the port key (Jeff is a harbinger of such port keys). It takes care of the corner issues, but allows the principle Jeff's conveying to stand on its merits.

It's interesting that Jeff has brought up this theory at this time...because I have been thinking the same thing as of late. Is it possible to not be contained short of living a reclusive lifestyle? Even if you live a reclusive lifestyle, you are contained....self-contained, of course.

Some of the containments, be they boxes or spheres or other geometric shapes of choice, or not, are serendipitous whether they be applied by forces external to the person contained or whether they be induced by the person being contained. In addition, some of the containments are purposefully directed, both externally from the containee and self-induced by the containee (see recluse example above).

I guess it stands to reason. If you believe that we are part spirit/soul, then it necessarily follows that our physical human existence is inherently one of containment....the soul captured and contained by the limitations of the human body and the world of matter. Energy contained, bursting at the seams to be released...at least that describes some of us, including me, whereas, others are quite content to lie dormant in their tightly woven molecular cocoons.

3/14/2007 08:44:00 PM  
Blogger Shrubageddon said...

Mark,

Interesting video....the Pentagon one you provided. Gee...I wonder whom the target audience is...it's so hard to tell? Is that one of Cindy Sheehan's favorites?

Looks to me like something that's directed at young, disenfranchised, testosterone laden punks looking for an outlet for their rage...and the Intelligence Services are more than happy to provide that outlet, or those outlets.

If I didn't know better, I'd say that video is some heavy duty Manchurian Candidate trigger. It reminds me somewhat of the image and audio sequencing in the movie The Parallax View.

3/14/2007 09:04:00 PM  
Blogger just_another_dick said...

WASHINGTON - Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the suspected mastermind of the Sept. 11 attacks, confessed to that attack and a string of others during a military hearing at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, according to a transcript released Wednesday by the
Pentagon.
"I was responsible for the 9/11 operation from A to Z," Mohammed said in a statement read during the session, which was held last Saturday.

The transcripts also refer to a claim by Mohammed that he was tortured by the
CIA, although he said he was not under duress when confessed to his role in the attacks.

In a chilling list of attacks — some of which were carried out, some not — Mohammed claimed responsibility for planning, financing and training others for plots ranging from the 1993 truck bombing of the World Trade Center to the attempt by would-be shoe bomber Richard Reid to blow up a trans-Atlantic flight with explosives hidden in his shoes.

He said he was involved in planning the 2002 bombing of a Kenya beach resort frequented by Israelis and the failed missile attack on an Israeli passenger jet after it took off from Mombasa, Kenya. He also said he was responsible for the bombing of a nightclub in Bali, Indonesia. In 2002, 202 were killed when two Bali nightclubs were bombed.

Other plots he said he was responsible for included planned attacks against the Sears Tower in Chicago, the Empire State Building and
New York Stock Exchange, the Panama Canal and Big Ben and Heathrow Airport in London — none of which occurred.

He also said he was involved in planning assassination attempts against former Presidents Carter and Clinton, attacks on U.S. nuclear power plants and suspension bridges in New York, the destruction of American and Israeli embassies in Asia and Australia, attacks on American naval vessels and oil tankers around the world and an attempt to destroy an oil company he said was owned by former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger on Sumatra, Indonesia.

In all, Mohammed said he was responsible for planning 28 individual attacks. The comments were included in a 26-page transcript released by the Pentagon, which blacked out some of his remarks.

Mohammed also claimed he was tortured by the CIA after his capture in 2003, according to an exchange he had with the military colonel who heads the three-member panel that heard his case.

"Is any statement that you made, was it because of this treatment, to use your word, you claim torture," the colonel asked. "Do you make any statements because of that?"

Portions of Mohammed's response were deleted from the transcript, and his immediate answer was unclear. He later said his confession read at the hearing to the long list of attacks was given without any pressure, threats or duress.

The colonel said that Mohammed's torture allegations would be "reported for any investigation that may be appropriate" and also would be taken into account in consideration of his enemy combatant status.

The Pentagon also released transcripts of the hearings of Abu Faraj al-Libi and Ramzi Binalshibh, though Binalshibh refused to attend his session.

Binalshibh, a Yemeni, is suspected of helping Mohammed with the Sept. 11, 2001, attack plan and is also linked to a foiled plot to crash aircraft into London's Heathrow Airport. Al-Libi is a Libyan who reportedly masterminded two bombings 11 days apart in Pakistan in December 2003 that targeted President Pervez Musharraf for his support of the U.S.-led war on terror.

3/14/2007 11:17:00 PM  
Blogger Mark said...

In regard to the Pentagon. A hole made by a tube. A passenger jet is a tube, yet wings are attached to each side of the tube. The official story of the Pentagon crash has vocal supporters telling us the wings went into the hole. You know that crowd: they label certain of us the "no-plane" theorists. Interesting they use that term since calling us "missile at the "Pentagon" theorists would be so much easier and plainly accurate. Yet they insist on using "no-plane" to refer to this. It's almost like...I don't know...like they don't want to say or use "missile", even when it is easier and more accurate than calling us "no-plane". I mean saying "missile" clarifies what we are saying while "no-plane" muddies it up and mis-directs and re-directs .....hmmm. That's okay, I shall label their group the "wings are irrelevant, anyway" crowd.

There is no outer sign of wings impacting the structure to either side of the Pentagon. In light of this fact I have scoffed and derided the "wings are irrelevant anyway" crowd. I ridicule and question if they believe that the wings must have folded up to the sides of the craft as it entered. I press them with the assertion that they are left with the theory of a magical sucking vortex at The Hole. Since the wings did not not slice through the wall, they feel that is no reason for me to be LOOKING for wing debris. However ridiculous the Magical Sucking Pentagon Hole Vortex is, it is the only alternative theory I can deduce, apart from folding wings. But why should I unfairly tag them with this Vortex theory? I must ask them again regarding this idea of The Hole becoming a magical sucking vortex
that vacuumed up everything in front of it - not only sucking up the debris immediately in front of the hole carrying it into it's maw, but sucking all the scattered and shattered debris at a minimum distance of two wingspans (mimimum radial dispersion) outward both directions from the edge of its
diameter on each side. Just because it is their only theory to account for the disappearing wings does not mean they do not have a good defense and a physics explanation for it. If they explain it well enough, I too might understand why missing wings are irrelevant.

Jeff, what is an essential component to the mental exercise of applying rigorous intuition? I submit it is imagination. Any good researcher, detective, scientist, will agree: imagination is very important in deduction, perhaps the crucial component in discovery.
If you think imagination is merely fairy tales, unicorns, some Doug Henning quote, or something used to write fictional stories or poetry, then you are not fit to promote the
phrase "rigorous intuition".
So let's do the mental research, since the other aspects of research are limited to us in this virtual discussion forum. This is research we can do right now. Only a faux-skeptic will scoff and deride imagination as a tool of investigation.

Visualize the Pentagon. Get as detailed as you wish. Or get as basic as you want: the side of the Pentagon, the flat grounds in front, and a 757 passenger jet skimming just feet off the ground at full speed towards the wall.
You may wish to choose your view: birds-eye, or seen from behind the incoming plane, or seen from the side at eye level, or however you wish.
Set the crash in motion at real time speed. Make sure you are visualizing all parts of the jet, all parts of the Pentagon, all parts of the grounds in front. There was an outward explosion we know from the two videos. Watch it all happen from the view you have chosen. Play it several times in your mind. Now eliminate the fireball that is
blowing away from the wall at impact, in order to clear the view to replay this impact. Yet keep that outward force of the explosion in play, just eliminate its visible characteristics of the fireball. Now watch the huge passenger jet hit. Watch it all hit. Watch the wings and the tail. Watch the tube filled with passengers. The nose of the jet pierces the wall. (Keep
the outward force of the explosion in play.) Watch as the wings hit. The tube is disappearing into the hole. Slow it down, because within less than 1/1000 of a second the wings will now make contact. They do not slice the wall, like they sliced the towers. They do not shear off neatly and drop away. Yet their impact does not make a visible roughened line of chipped, dented, skinned, chalked, or flaked material to account for their impact. Include this in your imagination as you play the crash in your mind. So now your imagination has to do something with the wings. Remember, the imagination is not unicorns and fairies. It is a research tool. Your mind is powerful. Do something with the wings. They are not in the
immediate aftermath pics. The few
debris cannot account for them. Let's imagine in our minds the physics of it, forgetting for now the oddity of no wing impact marks. We shall assume in our imagination that the walls are at titanium strength to account for that, and now watch as the wings hit.
They shatter and scatter.
The outward force of the impact of the tube finds release thru the hole and the shattered pieces of the wings that shatter on both sides of the hole are flung in a radius pattern. What is the trajectory of the thousands of pieces, their arc as they shatter against the force of the resistance of the wall and outward blast? They wedge into ground, or violently smack and bounce and roll to a stop on the grounds. Same scenario with the tail section and the outer blast, though I will leave it to your imagination to see where the pieces of the tail go. But you must visualize the tail hitting the Pentagon wall above the hole, for measurements prove the tail would not have gone over the roof, but indeed, would have impacted above the hole, yet well below the roof line. And do not take the blast out of this mind-video. The blast went out of the hole outwards and upwards. Since the tail did not slice thru, it's pieces would have been been impacted by this blast. There is now small and large and twisted debris everywhere.
Now to go from your crash visualization to the actual aftermath photos. What did your imagination have to do to account
for your theory that it was a winged aircraft and not a missile? My visualization can only come up with the hole becoming a sucking vortex which drew in all the debris of the wings and tail. You see, I was not being completely mocking when I proposed that the winged plane theorists need a magical sucking vortex at the hole. Because it is all I can visualize to sweep the grounds clean of the debris. Go ahead and account for it another way. Please do tell us how this visualization helped you to bolster your winged plane theory over the missile theory. To eliminate the wing and tail debris you either created special effects of the sci-fi/fantasy kind in order to end the visualization at the stop point which is the factual photographic proof of the aftermath. At this point I expect you to tell me this is not science..."Anyone can imagine anything" you might say. That only hurts your argument, for you can somehow imagine disappearing wings. "This is not research" you might say. How so? My mind applies visual physics to wings impacting a building and I "see" the results. It may not be approved "research" and even I hesitate to use that term, but it sure as hell IS rigorous intuition, and sure as hell is not mental laziness. The visualization and the photos are
impossible to match up.
My guess is you did not even spend the time to do this visualization
because you already knew where it
would take you.
Perhaps you will say simply the wings vaporized. IF the plane that
crashed into the Pentagon "vaporised on impact", why did it puncture about 7 reinforced concrete walls? And if it didn't, then where is most of the plane? Where are the engines? "Only the wings vaporized".
What is the physics of vaporizing metal? Please don't go there. In fact, don't go where you normally go: the "disappointing 9/11 movement" as your argument. I'm not talking about them. I'm asking what your visualization showed you. I'm asking for an argument that tells me you have thought about this. If you haven't thought about it, then why the hell are you commenting on physical evidence?
"Well the 9/11 movement, they---"
Please let me interrupt rudely here: STOP!...I am not talking about them!
I am asking for a semblance of rigorous intuition and the rest of it be damned.
Are you able to visualize any of the stunning crap you use in your "analysis" of physical evidence?
You say the squibs at the WTC are obviously compression of floors forcing air out of floors below.
It is obvious to me now you never use the powerful tool of imagination to rigorously intuit anything. It will suffice here to mock your squib interpretation with this: all that air, the cubic square feet of compressing destructive force SOMEHOW channels itself into a neat vortex (ah, there's the magic of the vortex again) and instead of (by laws of physics) blowing out tower-face lengths of walls and windows, the towers somehow pucker special blow-valves at points on its face and we have Magical Blowing Vortexes at the WTC the same day we have a Magical Sucking Vortex at the Pentagon.
Nice two pronged attack in your last two posts. First the WTC post and now this Pentagon post. Of course to cover it for what it is, you sprinkle in some other titillations to soften the main thrust of your belief in a plane at the Pentagon and how those who don't comply to your belief are the ones in a box.
If you are not in a box yourself, why the agitation with well-founded theories it was a missile? Rigorous intuition and critical thinking go hand in hand. You want to disavow one for the other, and claim faux-skepticism has merits. Only Skepticism has merit. I do not see a Skeptical inquiry here. Just throwing up as much shit as possible for some street cred with the faux-skeptic crowd.
I may be wrong about your shillhood. But the coincidences are piling up and I may have to compile a "Coincidence Theorists Guide To RI".
Maybe others will see thru the titillation of your "research".
One piece of advice: instead of writing titillation pieces about aspects of magick, maybe practice it a little, because it certainly helps visualization techniques. Sounds like you are really in need of that ability.

3/15/2007 12:46:00 AM  
Blogger sandymac said...

Funny how these people pop up everywhere:

"Dr. Wernher von Braun 1912–1977
was one of the leading figures in the development of rocket technology in Nazi Germany and the United States…

"He served as director of NASA’s Marshall Space Flight Center and the chief architect of the Saturn V launch vehicle, the superbooster that propelled the United States to the Moon. He is generally regarded as the father of the United States space program."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun

Interesting as well:

"Exploring Antarctica (1967)
Intrigued by exploration in space and on Earth, Dr. Von Braun participated in an expedition to Antarctica."

http://history.msfc.nasa.gov/vonbraun/photo/late-60s.html

Could that be where the moon rocks came from?

And this:

"In the hope that its involvement would bring about greater public interest in the future of the space program, von Braun also began working with the Disney studios as a technical director, initially for three television films about space exploration."

Jeff says,
"And we know, as well as rocketry, the Nazi scientists also brought to American proving grounds their advanced work in mind control."

Could the moon landing have been a major mind control project? It seems to be the most upsetting topic for people to imagine - that we didn't actually go to the moon.

3/15/2007 02:35:00 AM  
Blogger Silverfox said...

Sorry Jeff...

But from a psychological standpoint "doubt" is the very antithesis of belief.

"Disbelief" on the other hand is actually a quite solid belief in some alternative or contradictory position that is sufficiently strong enough to refute or deny the belief it opposes.

Belief and disbelief are both based on convictions. So too I might add is what we generally refer to as "The Truth"...hmmm?

Doubt, however, is the utter absence of any convictions and where there are no convictions there can unfortunately be no truth either.

Now any skepticism engendered by doubt can come in a variety of flavours not all of which are necessarily "healthy" precisely because there are no genuine convictions of any kind behind it.

In some of the most ardent skeptics there is no room for any conviction at all. That is far cry from being anywhere near as "virtuous" as they claim it to be. The coerrect term is far more "pathological".

Doubt and skepticism can just as easily be used to avoid having to accept any convictions that might have to be acted on, or to dodge or steer clear of a truth particulaly if might reveal some of other ideas or beliefs to be false.

Now I'm not trying to muddy the waters here but raise a little awareness about something we are all more than a litle prone to do without necesarily either meaning or wanting to.

We all need to recognise that any thoughts or beliefs we have are by no means "ours" or that we have to defend them or feel self-conscious about them for that reason alone.

Nor ehould we at any time make one another ever feel that way about having or sharing those thoughts or beliefs for whatever they are and giving them some honest consideration.

The entire point of being open-minded is the willingness to entertain any and all ideas for we do not truly know what value they may have untill we do so. It is just as simple as that.

Now some if not most of the greatest discoveries that humans have ever made were based on what were thought to be "idiotic" ideas or beliefs at the time.

The people who had them were hardly idiots on that account, nor for honestly believeing in them. We cannot, however, say the same about all those who were so eager to label them as such.

So our thoughts and beliefs are valuable only insofar as they are genuinely usefull in finding and knowing Tthe Truth" for ourselves and we should have no compunction about dropping or abandoning any if we think or feel them getting in the way of that. We can only fail ourselves and each other by not doing that, not the other way around.

That's something we need to encourage and support one another in without any need for anyone apologising or feeling embarassed about it.

Now it's far better to state what we honestly believe and feel to be true and have the power of our convictions to stand behind them. To trust ourselves and our intentions and not have that trust shaken by any potential fallibility of whatever we think or believe at the moment.

The truth is we that those thoughts and beliefs are, and will always be wrong to some degree or other and that is not only perfectly natural. It is what should motivate us in all our discussions with one another, in attempting to find that out for ourselves.

We each have a unique view of an equally unique aspect of a much larger truth. That larger truth can only begin to be understood as we pool them together despite any of their seeming inconguities or paradoxes. We do not know the full extent of what it is we're after or how those pieces all fit together.

Now we may very well be wrong but untill such time as "we stand to be corrected" let us at least be honest with one another not just about what we think but just as importantly feel as well.

I know I'm a little off topic but your subtext of doubt leaves me somewhat in doubt about what we ought to be in doubt about...hmmm? LOL

3/15/2007 04:40:00 AM  
Blogger Sounder said...

With our current aesthetics it is more natural to find motivation in attempts at convincing others of what we ‘know’, rather than being motivated to identify the nature of our own ignorance. We like to think that we live in a bigger or better box than others, but more often we are simply peeking over the edge of the same box that everyone is in.

3/15/2007 09:19:00 AM  
Blogger ericswan said...

Sounder.. The premise that we are all given the same information is not accurate. Somewhere between this material universe and the other one of spirit is a path and that path has historically built the pyramids, landed on distant shores, dreamed dreams no one else could dream. It's not intellect. It's intuition made manifest and that requires the doing not the dawdling.

3/15/2007 10:41:00 AM  
Blogger Shrubageddon said...

I do not see a Skeptical inquiry here.

I'm skeptical as to why so many of you are so zealous over the details of 911....so much so that you judge all others based on their degree of skepticism regarding the finite details.

What purpose does perpetually wallowing in the details of this event serve except to hold you captive. I've been there and done that...and I have concluded long ago that 911 was an inside job. The extent of how inside it was is irrelevant...because it is treason either way....but what's new? It's yet another act of treason in a long list of treason...and is it really treason if our so-called Democratic Republic is merely a charade anyway, meaning it was never legitimate...it was always a rigged farce.

Jeff's mantra is to expose and discuss the many manifestations of the hydra/octupus (in addition to other observances of High Weirdness), and 911 is just another manifestation...and quite frankly, not as substantial as you fanatics make it out to be. Television has had a much greater impact on the somnolescence of The Masses, in comparison, yet I don't see testosterone laden young punks thrwoing their sets in the trash and screaming treason.

Let's put it in perspective, folks. Jeff is practicing rigorous intuition in regards to this issue. You are certifiably nuts if you think that they could hatch and perpetrate 911 and yet allow the exposure of such to proceed uncontained. It was part of the planning...to control the conspiratorially minded. The water is polluted....and a bath is not on the top of the priority list when one of your lungs has been removed due to cancer and now you have a tumor in the other.

We need a homeopathic cure...not a sponge bath.

3/15/2007 10:48:00 AM  
Blogger Dr. Bombay said...

"Following up on our story from
Wednesday, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed
has now confessed to the killings
of JFK, Bobby Kennedy, MLK and
Anna Nicole Smith. The Sheikh,
who also claimed to be the father
of Ms. Smiths baby daughter,
apparently killed Ms. Smith when
she refused to convert to Islam.
Khalid also takes credit for the
heartbreak of psoriasis".

On a more serious note, do you
know why the "confessions" are
completly bogus? Because our
government waited 5 WEEKS to tell
us that KSM had confessed to the
crimes. Now...Does anyone really
believe that if the government
had this information they wouldn't
shout it from the roof of the
White House the DAY he confessed?
Of course they would! But no..
they waited until the Atty General
has his ass in a jam and THEN
released the info to try and get
the bad news off the front page.

3/15/2007 01:53:00 PM  
Blogger Mark said...

Jeff writes:

Jeff said...

"911: In Plane Site - The Directors Cut"

Does this one include bloopers of vonKleist saying "'Pods'? No fucking way!" Because I'll watch that.


Really don't want to debate the Pentagon radiation issue now, do you, Jeff? Or the WTC radiation issue?

OK, we'll talk pods.

There are plenty of simultaneous different views (four to be exact) of the same 'pod' visible on the 'underside-right' of the WTC2 plane shown in that film.

Additionally, not addressed in that film though is the issue of the offset engines in the plane that hit the WTC2 as well as the pod which virtually proves substitution of UAL175 for something else after it took off from Boston. It's likely an U.S. Air Force military refueling Boeing, which has such offset engines, by the time it gets to the WTC2 with its 'pod.' Then it fires a little something into the WTC2 as it goes in. That's in the film. Same as the pre-hit explosion on the face of WTC1 hit, which shows substitution for AA11 (which remember was unscheduled for 9-11 to even fly).

Here's some pictures of the pod and the offset engines on the plane that hit WTC2. The In Plane Site film linked above gets into detail about the pods, though ignores the offset engine issue.

Here's that link once more:

911: In Plane Site - The Directors Cut
Full High Quality Video
Bridgestone Media Group
1 hr 12 min

Aesthetically, I could do without what I think is a cheesy opening overture sequence to the film, though it has really nothing to do with the rest of the film.

'911: in Plane Site' presents actual film from that fateful day and careful analysis focusing on the Pentagon and the two World Trade Center buildings. By slowing down the actual news feeds that day from networks like CNN, FOX, the BBC and others, what you see is quite different from what most people saw in "real time" that day--as well as what was only 'accidentally' shown once and then thrown on the cutting room floor of the major networks. Live unedited footage--sometimes only shown once--from the Pentagon and WTC is far more enlightening.

The whole recent BBC fiasco--where they were caught supposedly "reporting live from New York City" talking about the WTC7 already collapsed completely (while it stood behind the BBC reporter--showing she was reading a pre-prepared 'collapse statement alibi' a bit early...), would have definitely been in In Plane Site if it had been produced in early 2007 instead of 2004.

The BBC psychic prediction 26 minutes early for the WTC7 demolition--and CNN's psychic prediction of WTC7 "about to collapse or is collapsing" over 75 minutes early--is dealt with here:

"An astounding video uncovered from the archives today shows the BBC reporting on the collapse of WTC Building 7 over twenty minutes before it fell at 5:20pm on the afternoon of 9/11. The incredible footage shows BBC reporter Jane Standley talking [empathetically] about the collapse of the Salomon Brothers Building [WTC7] while it remains standing in the live shot behind her head. [She is then cut out with only minutes to spare from the actual demolition which would have occurred live after they were already talking about it collapsing. She's cut from NYC-to-London TV feed without explanation when someone at BBC realizes the egregious continuity error about what they were ordering her to report from NYC something already occurring which has has not yet happened in the live shot from her NYC location.]

Although there is no clock or time stamp on the footage, the source claims the report was given at 4:57pm EST, 23 minutes before Building 7 collapsed at 5:20pm. While the exact time of the report cannot be confirmed at present, it is clear from the footage that the reporter is describing the collapse of WTC 7 while it clearly remains standing behind her in the live shot.

This newly uncovered video confirms that the collapse of WTC 7 was no surprise, because television news stations were reporting on it before it happened!

This footage is absolutely amazing and should provoke a firestorm of new questions aimed both at Silverstein [WTCs owner] and the BBC. Who told the BBC that the building was going to collapse before it did and why were they reporting its fall in advance of the event actually taking place?

Many have speculated that some kind of press release was leaked too soon and AP wires, radio stations and TV news outlets prematurely reported on WTC 7's collapse.

This amazing clip was on Google Video, but was removed within hours of the story breaking.

...

Like BBC goof, CNN "wait on fire collapse" (no fire!) before it happens as well! [up to an hour in advance saying: er, has collapsed, or is about to collapse..."--while the newscaster sort of stares expectantly toward the uncollapsed WTC7!]

...


In addition, NYPD officer Craig Bartmer reported hearing bombs tear down the building as he ran away from it.

Debunkers have scoffed at our suggestion that some kind of press release had to have been issued for the BBC to report this ahead of time. Well how else do you suggest the BBC learned of the building's demise before it happened? A psychic premonition?

This goes to the very heart of why the mainstream media is stuttering and the alternative is burgeoning - the establishment press have become nothing more than ditto heads of the official version of events to the point where they don't even perform a cursory investigation of what they are being told by official sources. Their role is simply to repeat what the authorities tell them with no scrutiny whatsoever.

Nowhere was this more evident than on 9/11 when the corporate media mechanically relayed the 'Osama did it' fraud within hours of the attack, and afforded copious air time to highly suspicious individuals who just happened to know the intricate details of how each building collapsed within minutes of it occurring. This was key to solidifying the dogma of the official story, because anyone who saw the collapse of WTC 7 without having had the official propaganda drilled into them could see plain as day that it was a controlled demolition.

Indeed, controlled demolitions expert Danny Jowenko, unaware that the structure had collapsed on 9/11, immediately concluded that Building 7 had been deliberately demolished when he was shown the footage by a Dutch television crew, and maintains that position to this day.

...



"This was not the result of a new attack," states the anchor, "It was because the building had been weakened during this morning's attacks."

How else could the BBC have relayed this information unless by way of some kind of press release or official statement by Silverstein, Giuliani or the NYFD [OR AMEC]? Who told them that the building had been weakened? In effect, the BBC were working to a 9/11 script and made the error of orating their lines too early.

This damning video is also a commentary on the credibility and impartiality of the BBC as a whole, especially in light of their ludicrously bias, slanted and error ridden Conspiracy Files hit piece that aired last Sunday. Perhaps debunker-in-chief Guy Smith can explain to us how his colleague prophesied the downfall of a building that, almost mockingly, appears in full view behind her head before the live feed is conveniently interrupted.

...

BBC reports at least a half hour beforehand, and has WTC7 gone, on the air, "a full 26 minutes in advance of its collapse."..."the BBC reported the collapse of Building 7 at 4:54PM EST, a full 26 minutes before it collapsed." [i.e., substitute "collapsed" for "was control demolitioned on schedule," though someone's schedule was running a wee bit late (in NYC criminal gov't control demolition terrorists) or early (BBC getting the word from them at a certain scheduled time to pre-report on "fire" as an alibi--though something perhaps went wrong among the NYC controlled demolition of WTC7, postponing it past the BBC's pre-reportage agreement), eh?]

CNN reports WTC7 gone over an hour before it happens, starting from around 4:15! "...if we factor in CNN's Aaron Brown reporting that Building 7 "has collapsed or is collapsing" at 4:15PM EST, then that's over an hour before the building imploded into its own footprint."

------------------------------




Time Stamp Confirms BBC Reported WTC 7 Collapse 26 Minutes In Advance
Debunkers' claims about blue screens, inconclusive time frame of Jane Standley footage eviscerated

Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet
Wednesday, February 28, 2007


If there was any remaining doubt that the BBC reported the collapse of Building 7 over 20 minutes before it fell then it has now evaporated with the discovery of footage from the BBC's News 24 channel that shows the time stamp at 21:54 (4:54PM EST) when news of the Salomon Brothers Building is first broadcast, a full 26 minutes in advance of its collapse.

Watch the clip below.
[GOOGLE ALREADY HAS DELETED IT!]

According to FEMA, WTC 7 collapsed at 5:20pm on the afternoon of 9/11. Since British Summer Time is five hours ahead of Eastern Standard Time, the BBC reported the collapse of Building 7 at 4:54PM EST, a full 26 minutes before it collapsed."

3/15/2007 01:54:00 PM  
Blogger surrender said...

Last Updated: Thursday, 16 March 2006, 15:01 GMT

Pentagon plans cyber-insect army
By Gary Kitchener
BBC News



"The Pentagon's defense scientists want to create an army of cyber-insects that can be remotely controlled to check out explosives and send transmissions.

The idea is to insert micro-systems at the pupa stage, when the insects can integrate them into their body, so they can be remotely controlled later."


Just a little goodie to remind us not to get too distracted with what happened and look at what is happening NOW.

3/15/2007 02:14:00 PM  
Blogger A.T. Man said...

cosmolothrentas: I'm no expert in engineering, but the airplane wings might not have made much of a hole because the fuel tanks are often located inside the wings. I speculate that the fuel could cause the wings to disintegrate on impact, or at least weaken the structure sufficiently so as to prevent penetration of the building. I do not think this is necessarily demonstrative. Even so, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence; cliche but true.

Interesting allusion to Project Paperclip in this post. I am in the middle of Peter Lavenda's Unholy Alliance, picked up on a whim in a local used bookstore. I like his argument and his writing style, but I wonder about the "Simon" Necronomicon thing, and see a trickster archetype at work, as in George Hansen's The Trickster and the Paranormal [great book]. I am reminded of Maury Terry's true crime book about Son of Sam, trying to make a "Satanic panic" argument based only on tenuous connections among the players involved, perhaps the weakest part of conspiratorial thinking. '80's Satanic panic is a joke now. The media swung towards it at first, and then against it later with psychologists providing "false memory syndrome" explanations. Terry's research and the narrative are strong, but they are not extensive enough to support the conclusion that there is/was a massive occult criminal underground at work.

I'm with Silverfox and Shrub--The point here is that critical thinking is essential. Any firmly grasped dogma informs your analysis and conclusions, and so a person must be suspicious of his own worldview(s), but not so open-minded that he may be persuaded by weak evidence or strong personalities.

3/15/2007 02:31:00 PM  
Blogger The Way It Can Be said...

If we accept statements by persons like the Buddha then we see all forms as part of the world of illusion

whether it's this box or another box or ten other nested boxes or a million boxes

and while in this reality it may be useful to try to decipher which is which.. ultimately, it doesn't matter.. we have to see beyond the beyond..

and, if in the midst of that truly important task we can speculate then perhaps "god" or "the wellspring of all being" doesn't create or "will" anything in this realm.. being complete in itself there is no need but "we" in our free-will will & intend everything here and "god" creates it of itself.. so all the so-called good and evil we see is of our own making.. which includes every type of entity that exists in this realm.. this is where the boxes come into play.. we can jerk around on this level forever which is probably what many of the more powerful creatures have decided to do as long as they can get several billion other entities to jerk around under them.. or, we can break free of this illusion and see our "true nature"..

as in, security comes from knowing who you are..

it's tough to "be" in two realities especially when we can't quite grasp the foundational one and we're being deliberately rattled and bound to the current version of this one!!!

3/15/2007 02:34:00 PM  
Blogger Mark said...

nerdmann said...

it is my understanding that airliners are or were at that time, using depleted uranium as balast.

No. First, it was dismissed because there was no evidence of a Boeing at the Pentagon which precludes even the basis of that argument, at that particular site. Moreover, AA77 was unscheduled for the day as well.

And for the Pentagon and the WTCs, it is precluded in general because Boeing itself mentioned that it NEVER used depleted uranium on the 757 or 767s which are the government conspiracy theory planes of 9-11.

Mentioned above:

"If the radiation came from the explosion and fire at the Pentagon, as the EPA confirmed on the scene, it most likely did not come from a Boeing 757, which is the type of aircraft the federal government alleges hit the building. Why is that?

[6] Because Boeing said so! "Boeing has never used DU on either the 757 or the 767, and we no longer use it on the 747," Leslie M. Nichols, product spokesperson for Boeing's 767, told AFP. The "official story" of 9-11 is thus contradicted once more--since the federal allegation is that the Pentagon hit was a Boeing 757. Boeing confirms the federal allegation [or "radiation source from a Boeing 757/767" false theory] is untrue since such a plane hit would not produce the radioactivity [from DU tipped wings]." ...


So in both locations, for a variety of rationales, the unsubstantiated assumption of "radiation coming in on Boeing DU" can be dismissed as the origin of the radiation.

For Pentagon, no Boeing there.

For WTC1, since it fires something at the WTCs before it enters the face of the building, possibly, though it would't explain tritium at high concentrations locations where planes didn't hit (like WTC6), and it wouldn't explain away the seismographic spike pre-demolitions seconds before WTC1 and WTC2 began to be demolished, noted to be the characteristic ONLY of a 'short sharp shock' of a nuclear device, by interviews with seismologists conducted by AFP.

3/15/2007 02:54:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

IC.. (seething) in agony are we? The problem with your box analysis is not so much being in or out, it's the corners.

ericswan,

¿IC-ing? Dude, 'I see nothing.' Or, well, maybe I do, but it’s at the fringes, a kind of fuzzy, peripheral vision, if you will, that seems to want to festoon itself between the many boxes crowding the aisles here. In any case, I have yet to articulate this half-rational hallucination on this thread, so…why do you bring me into it so prematurely? Or was that some sort of mixed identity insinuation, or just thematic word play? Be that as it may, your cryptic, ideo-grammic puzzles always lodge themselves in my subconscious, where it’s difficult to get a toothpick in, so I’m going to try to leave that one alone for now.

The slithering thoughtsnake I see here wending its way among the boxes of the faithful (ericswan, Shrub, Sounder, Silverfox and sometimes Richard, as well as Christopher and a few others, inluding the guy with the Rosslyn link) suggests to me that it’s in the connections between the dots, as opposed to the dots themselves that we might find some sort of “answers,” or at least further questions in the never-ending quest.

Here’s how the snake slithered for me. I followed the Fort Bliss/Nazi scientist class photo link to the Wiki-swamp, where I then followed an internal link their Paperclip morass whereupon my eye was caught down-page in the “reference section” by yet another link called The Hunt for German Patents, where things really started coming together for me.

The reason I list the trajectory of these linkages is two-fold. First, Jeff planted the seed in my freshly fertilized brain of the notion of a connection between Nazi rocketeers, mind control, and UFOs and I was just letting that take me where it wanted to. Second, despite the recent (and quite sobering!) diagnosis of apophenia that some astute visitor conferred on one of our own dear Mojo’s many manifestations—the imparting of significance & connection between insignificant, unrelated/disparate things—there is something to synchronicity that goes beyond an internal reshuffling of our “separate” decks. Anyone who does not live alone in a cave has experienced this phenomenon. Some of us have experienced cycles of increasingly intense synchronicity.

Many of us are more than willing to accept the possibility that we are in many ways very closely connected, whether it’s Sounder’s unitary philosophy or ericswan’s mystical ley lines, or my own cacaphonous cosmic soup. The facts, as we know them, seem to indicate that following the slipstream of our seemingly serendipitous chain of thoughts reveals both the workings of our innermost minds and the mostly unexplored paths that connect us all. An internal/external phenomenon.

So, watering Jeff’s seed and following my own predilections, my eye was naturally caught by that The Hunt for German Patents link, since I’m very curious about the fate of certain supposedly “missing” formulas that would be of great significance in the great needed greening of the earth movement. The patent-hunting link was actually to a famous article by C. Lester Walker called SECRETS BY THE THOUSANDS that first appeared in Harpers Magazine in October of 1946. Now, the article itself is interesting for any number of reasons, both in its content and in the uses to which it was put. What Walker did was to tell the official story of how the patents were discovered, complete with derring-do and stirring patriotism, and then list some of the highlights of the looted patents in an overview of the scale of what was found. Advanced technology in medicine, avionics, optics, metallurgy, chemistry, manufacturing, etc, and even some hints of what I was looking for: carbohydrate-based plastics. More on that in a moment.

Walker was also essentially performing a PSA function by assuring the public that the patents were, under the administration of the OPB (Office of the Publication Board):

a.) being released to industry in a fair & equitable manner, thereby insuring that no company had any advantage over any other, and

b.) being made completely accessible to the general public, who only had to submit a request and a stamped, self-addressed envelope to discover the full particulars of the entire hoard of highly sensitive wartime technologies.

Not only were these claims patently untrue, as evidenced by the secrecy which continues to shroud the secret technology to this day and the enormous advantages acquired by certain defense & other industries, but the story itself was then put to some uses very different from Walker’s expressed intent.

Looking for more particulars on the patents which were of interest to me, I then crawled out of the Wikiswamp and into the untrammeled freedom of the Googlescape. The first thing I stumbled across was an article called The Great Patents Heist, by John Nugent, at the “scriptorium” of a website called wintersonnenwende.com, the most tragi-comically pro-Nazi website I’ve ever come across. Nugent quotes quite a bit from Walker’s article in terms of what was “stolen,” but for the purpose of blaming the 'damned Jews' for Hitler’s much-lamented defeat.

In one remarkable passage, Nugent writes:

Not only did Heisenberg explicitly state to Der Spiegel, “We never tried to produce any atomic bombs and we are glad not to be responsible for having made any,” he also admitted leaking the latest information on German uranium-splitting research to the half-Jewish Danish scientist Niels Bohr, who promptly informed his racial confreres in the US.

Oh, the infamy of such betrayal! If only the glorious Vaterland had succeeded in its noble mission! Looking at the rest of this website, I guess this passage is not actually all that remarkable, since it reprints the entire catalog of Goebbels’ speeches, in addition to an even more flattering portrait of the Leader than Rense has ever run. This, however, is where the story takes its weirdest twist.

German law forbids the content of this website to be administered by German hands, so it turns out that it’s American-owned. Moreover, there exists a connection that we don’t normally pay much attention to in our usual tracking of paper-clipped ratlines. It wasn’t just the big cartels who were closet (and, in some famous cases, not-so-closeted) American Nazis. Having got a schnauzevoll of this fascist crap from Winter Sonnen Wende (“the turning of the winter sun”), I jumped back to the Google-patch, only to land in an even stranger place, much closer to home.

I don’t really know anything about Fresno, CA, but there was, apparently, a massive Nazi scandal there 10 years ago that was not picked up by any wire services and has since been very industriously swept under all the rugs the town fathers could lay their hands on. In the broadest outlines, here’s the story.

On September 1, 1997 (the anniversary of the invasion of Poland), a guy by the name of Howard Hobbs Ph.D., Staff Historian of The Bulldog News ("The Conservative Voice of Today's University Campus") broke the story of the secret life of one of the most famous and influential Fresnans, Dr. Karl Leonard Falk, respected professor, head of the Social Sciences Dep’t and the author of Fresno’s massive downtown municipal renovation, in an 8-part investigative series called SECRET LIFE OF AN AMERICAN NAZI.

The intrepid historian (Hobbs) first got an inkling of something less than kosher about the good doctor in an interview for the small-time Bulldog rag in 1958. During Falk’s boringly self-aggrandizing response to a simple question, Hobbs’ attention strayed to the framed diploma on the wall behind Falk’s head, which came from the Fredrich Wilhelm University of Berlin (1936). Right there, on the wall for all to see, Hobbs was “stunned” to realize that:

…the title of his (Falk’s) 1936 dissertation [Wirtschatfliche grundsatz und probleme der Amerikanischen tagespresse] constituted an attack on American First Amendment rights of free speech and press, e.g. newspapers. I asked him about the title. He became visibly annoyed and quickly moved to terminate the interview after making terse personal comments that I interpreted as his way of making an ad hominem diversion to avoid answering my inquiry.

I followed the story over the years as he assumed the reins of Fresno State presidency and was riding rough-shod over his political opponents on campus and shutting down the campus newspaper, the Daily Collegian.

During this melee and free-wheeling martial law he ordered, he appeared at a Fresno County Bar Association meeting an delivered a shocking admission of his prior involvement in the Third Reich.

I knew that Falk had worked for Nazi Germany in the 1930's, but that was a closely guarded secret I had gotten too close to. Now, it was coming-out and it was going to be a big story and there was going to be more. So late in 1971 I agreed to do the research for documentary proof for a book on it. I continued to do research on and off up through last year. A lot of new information only came to the surface after Berlin was opened to the West under Ronald Reagan's administration.

I actually was, only then, able to obtain official certified records of Karl Leonard Falk's employment and travel records from 1933-1938 in Berlin and his Berlin University transcripts of that time. So it was then that I sat down to translate the Nazi documents and began writing the first paragraph of a series of eight feature stories that were carried on the front page of the Daily Republican Newspaper in 1997.

It turned out that Falk had worked directly for Goebbels after having been hired by Hitler himself to write propaganda about the failure of democracy in America. While most of us would be inclined to agree with that assessment, I think we would assign different causes to that failure. Such as the lack of free speech, at least in terms of a free press, not too much freedom of speech.

So, this is where the story becomes almost surreal. Please pardon the ridiculous length of this commentary, but telling the story in Hobbs’ words gives it some needed clarity:

The destruction of the European Jews has been amply linked to pseudo-scientific Nazi racial theories as such propaganda was reinforced by art and architectural expression in a brutal connection between architectural history and anti-Semitism.

This writer sees the connection between Karl Leonard Falk's oppression of the Jews initially characterized by his slurs and stereotypes that were supported by incessant fallacious racial propaganda he helped to spew out of the Propaganda Ministry and the psychological function of Speer's architectural goals that were integrated into the creation and implementation of state policy against the Berlin Jews.

But this propaganda set-stage was quickly stage-managed with brutal tactics that concentrated the Jewish community in Berlin and eventually led to mass deportation and mass murder.

To grasp how the work of Karl Leonard Falk played a key role in the decisions made concerning a Nazi policy of extermination of the Jews requires recognition that the formal design of a monumental urban plan for Berlin. It functioned as piece of the puzzle for developing a final soulution through a systematic anti-Semitic policy. To understand this connection it is important to concentrate attention on the implementation of particular economic and social policies aimed at the Jewish population in Berlin during the years 1933-1938.

Specifically, anti-Semitic housing policy (concerned as it was with controlling and then removing the trageted Jewish population) became a focus of key efforts made by Karl Falk at the Propaganda Ministry tracts, films, and radio broadcasts, and by Speer to complete the monumental plans for the rebuilding of Berlin by 1938.

Since the rapid industrialization of Berlin in the late Nineteenth Century, housing had been a perennial problem and concern of the city's building administration and a factor in every major site plan for monumental architectural projects. A lack of suitable housing reached crisis proportions with Speer's attempt to impose a massive urban design on a city that already suffered from an insufficient number of dwellings for the ever-growing industrial working population.

Within the context of the housing debate, Speer even interested himself in particular modernist solutions, such as mass-produced pre-fab housing units.

It is important to remember the clear historical connection between housing policies in reference to the political uses to which urban planning was put in Berlin urban renewal during this period.

While the political function of architecture has been a major focus of a critical discussion of urban planning in Berlin not widely recognized today, though its study is warranted.

Speer's role in implementing policies against the Jews in Berlin was apparent from the Third Reich's systematic anti-Semitic housing policy and systematic development of architectural interests and the oppression of the Berlin Jews.

For example, documentary evidence indicates that Speer not only implemented but also attempted to formulate an anti-Semitic policy to serve his architectural interests.

Hitler's ideas on urbanization are shockingly like those which were expressed by Karl Leonard Falk in the 1950's in Fresno, California.

Falk, by that time had been appointed to head the Fresno Housing Authority, a key political position at Fresno City Hall. Like Hitler and Speer before him, Falk's vision for a new Fresno was not a vision Fresno as a center of a rich and growing cultural and socioeconomic diversity but as a site of political power.

Falk's architectural plan for urban redevelopment of Fresno concentrated on the downtown area adjacent to and with the City Hall at its apex of political power.

Downtown Fresno, for Karl Leonard Falk would be transformed into a gigantic government mall housed in monumental public buildings surrounded by jails and prison buildings, amid a huge public square, wide expansive walkways, public art, and the absence of evidence of private property.

Such were the symbols of Falk's dream of obtaining personal political power. The dream wold be realized through a piecemeal approach that would eventually extend and broaden the wide ranging exercise of City Hall's police powers, and a free-wheeling use of condemnation powers to rid the core of the City of its homes, apartment houses, and small businesses.

Falk's vision of societal utopia was not one that saw the democratic participation of free citizens and the trading of ideas in the political marketplace, but of the exercise of tyranny of the minority over the majority.

There is much, much more to this story, but I’ll stop here with one note that ties it back to Jeff’s theme. It’s not just that Fresno ended up with its downtown constructed in Albert Speer’s “Führer style,” which has to be a source of embarrassment to someone, but that Falk’s propaganda work (which is explained in greater detail in the article) was based on the notion that the common man can be made to believe whatever the “authorities” want him to believe.

Falk’s Hitlerian urban renewal and his attacks on free speech occurred at the same time that (German) Nazi scientists were carrying out at American installations (like Fort Bliss and many others) the same research they started over there in advanced techniques in industry and mind control. While we don’t have much knowledge on the progress of its industrial applications, we can certainly see signs that they’ve made some serious inroads in that other pursuit—getting people to believe what they want them to believe.

A final irony to this story is that the man who broke it, mild mannered Howard Hobbs of the conservative college newspaper, is the nephew of Samuel Clemens, whose Huck Finn is one of the most revolutionary (and banned) books ever written. You’re right, Shrub—spheres in spheres.

3/15/2007 03:45:00 PM  
Blogger just_another_dick said...

WASHINGTON - Suspected 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed confessed to the beheading of American journalist Daniel Pearl and a central role in 30 other attacks and plots in the U.S. and worldwide that killed thousands of victims, said a revised transcript released Thursday by the U.S. military. "I decapitated with my blessed right hand the head of the American Jew, Daniel Pearl, in the city of Karachi, Pakistan," Mohammed is quoted as saying in a transcript of a military hearing at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, released by the Pentagon.

Dr. Bombay said:

"The Sheikh,
who also claimed to be the father
of Ms. Smiths baby daughter,
apparently killed Ms. Smith when
she refused to convert to Islam."

Mr. Bombay, this is nothing but disinformation disseminated for the edification of the gullible.
Mr. Sheikh had nothing whatsoever to do with Miss Smith or her death.

But I do have it on good authority that he was responsible for Miss Spear's recent crack-up, going so far as to shave her head from a distance using well known techniques of CIA psi manipulation.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, Mr. Sheikh was Miss Hilton's sex toy in the recent video thefts reported on Dateline a few weeks back. Originally she wanted Ron Jeremy, but he was unavailable due to previous reality TV commitments.

Please sir, keep your sources straight & exercise a little rigor please.

Thank You.

3/15/2007 04:23:00 PM  
Blogger just_another_dick said...

Oh yeah, to IC...

...you, my friend, just need to shift your reality.

All the tools you could ever need for such an undertaking can be found here:

http://www.realityshifters.com/

But, then again, I've been wrong before.

3/15/2007 04:29:00 PM  
Blogger Shrubageddon said...

But I do have it on good authority that he was responsible for Miss Spear's recent crack-up, going so far as to shave her head from a distance using well known techniques of CIA psi manipulation.

Bullshit, Richard. The head shaving was accomplished by Scalar Technology coupled with Mini-Nukes and Hologramatic PODS. You're not thinking critically....you need to get out of your box and into the Hexagon inside the sphere inside the trapezoid inside the Sky Daddy's Rectum.

3/15/2007 05:21:00 PM  
Blogger ericswan said...

Carbs for building blocks rings a bell here. I'm thinking of the rediscovered science of making the most indestructible paper known to man. Papri reeds were layered at right angles treated to heat and pressure in a bacterial solution, left to dry and cut to size leaving a near white near indestructible papyrus paper.

It won't take CNN long to pre-emptively strike the firing of 8 lawyers. Anybody see their names or what they are or were vestigating in the "free press"?
I didn't think so. Not one name and not one link to what was being investigated. Talk about connecting the dots.

courtesy Wayne Madsen


We now know that Gonzales, Rove, and ex-White House counsel Harriet Miers conspired to fire a number of U.S. attorneys for political reasons. Those fired include H. E. "Bud" Cummins, U.S. Attorney for eastern Arkansas, who was dismissed to make way for Tim Griffin, a political aide to Karl Rove. John McKay, former U.S. Attorney for western Washington, was fired for not indicting Democrats for fraud in the close 2004 Washington gubernatorial race. There was no evidence of any fraud, yet the White House wanted to engage the Justice Department in a political witch hunt. Former U.S. Attorney Carol Lam of San Diego was fired over her aggressive pursuit of ex-GOP Congressman Randy "Duke" Cunningham, now in prison for accepting bribes. Lam was fired as her investigation expanded to include California Republican congressmen Jerry Lewis and Ken Calvert. Others fired included New Mexico U.S. Attorney David Iglesias, whose firing was prompted by political pressure from New Mexico Republican Senator Pete Domenici and Representative Heather Wilson (they felt that he should have prosecuted Democrats in voter fraud, much like the pressure exacted on McKay in Washington); Nevada U.S. Attorney David Bogden; U.S. Attorney Kevin Ryan of San Francisco; and Arizona U.S. Attorney Paul Charlton, who was investigating Arizona Republican Representative Rick Renzi; and Margaret Chiara, U.S. Attorney for Western Michigan and the Upper Peninsula. The most egregious firing was that of interim U.S. Attorney for Guam and the Northern Marianas Frederick Black, dismissed because of his investigation of now jailed GOP lobbyist Jack Abramoff and human trafficking from Asia to sweatshops in Saipan. Although the media is reporting that eight U.S. Attorneys were fired by the White House -- identified from the Justice Department-White House e-mail exchanges -- the earlier 2002 firing of Black makes that number at least nine.

3/15/2007 05:44:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

ericswan,

From the Patent Hunt link:

Mica was another thing. None is mined in Germany, so during the war our Signal Corps was mystified. Where was Germany getting it?

One day a certain piece of mica was handed to one of our experts in the U.S. Bureau of Mines for analysis and opinion. Natural mica, he reported, and no impurities.

But the mica was synthetic. The Kaiser Wilhelm Institute for Silicate Research had discovered how to make it and something which had always eluded scientists-in large sheets.

We know now, thanks to FIAT teams, that ingredients of natural mica were melted in crucibles of carbon capable of taking 2,350 degrees of heat, and then-this was the real secret-cooked in a special way. Complete absence of vibration was the first essential. Then two forces directly perpendicular to each other were applied. One, vertically, was a controlled gradient of temperature in the cooling. At right angles to this, horizontally, was introduced a magnetic field. This forced the formation of the crystals in large laminated sheets on that plane.

But this was mica--where was that paper-papyri thing from? Some pyramid-sporting country, presumably? Orthogonal chemistry, eh?


Ok, Richard,

I might be flaky, but that flaky, thank you very much! I do have some standards to maintain, you know...

3/15/2007 06:33:00 PM  
Blogger Dr. Bombay said...

RE: Just Another Dick
Your right, I stand corrected.

Not to jump to far back into the
last thread, but if a commercial
jet liner HAD hit the Pentagon
there should have been three holes
in the building. One for the
fuselage and one each for the
jet engines. In fact the engines
are the most robust part of the
aircraft. They are made of a
steel and titanium alloy, are
12 feet high and weigh 6 tons
each. So why weren't they found
at the Pentagon? Well, ONE jet
rotor was found. But when a picture
of the rotor was sent to the
engine manufacturer -Rolls Royce-
they "could not identifey it as
ANY part of one of their engines".

3/15/2007 06:42:00 PM  
Blogger steve said...

For a look at what happens to engines when an A-4 jet hits a concrete wall, here's a nice Sandia Labs video:

http://www.sandia.gov/news/resources/video-gallery/index.html#rocketsled

3/15/2007 07:02:00 PM  
Blogger just_another_dick said...

Sorry IC.

My flake-o-meter has been so inundated lately I think the little fucker has finally given up the ghost.

But, you have to admit, it was a teensy-weensy bit amusing, wasn't it?

Shrub, you're right & I stand corrected. The techno side of new-world-order-ology always leaves me scratching my head & going 'Huzzawah?'

Last, but not least, here is my favorite quote from the ocean of KSM trial stories that have been splashing all over the net today.

From Yahoo:

"In his testimony to a military tribunal at Guantanamo Bay, released in redacted form by the
Pentagon on Wednesday, Mohammed claimed involvement in 31 attacks and plots. Some are almost surely true."


"Some are almost surely true," eh?

I'd laugh, but it really isn't all that fucking funny anymore.

3/15/2007 10:27:00 PM  
Blogger Dr. Bombay said...

RE: Steve
Thanks for helping me make my
point by providing the video clip.
As anyone can plainly see, the jet
does not "VAPORIZE", its just
smashed into a million little
pieces. And the text of the video
states that "the major impact
force was from the engines".
So, if thats the case,where are
the two holes in the Pentagon that
should have been made by the
impact of the engines themselves?

"This just in to our newsroom:
Khalid Sheikh Mohammed admits
being behind the firing of 8
federal prosecutors. Film at eleven".

3/15/2007 11:04:00 PM  
Blogger Sounder said...

Ericswan said;

“The premise that we are all given the same information is not accurate.”

I think that the box represents how we process information rather than information itself. (So yes, we may well have different information.) Take as an example Hubble’s law, which relates the motion away and distance from the observer, to the perception of the ‘red shift’. The information is the observed shift in frequency of the received light. Applying the Hubble law to the pure information does the processing of the information. Someone like Halton Arp may see wide variations of shift in an area thought to be cosmologically connected. While he may share responsibility (and acclaim) for the building of our next box (system for processing information), still he is peeking over the edge of our current box.

I do ‘hear’ the implied assertion that the person that believes a plane hit the pentagon lives in a different box than does the person that considers it was a missile hit. I see most folk deep in the either/or box where it’s all too easy to whip the residents into reactive mind conniption fits.


“Somewhere between this material universe and the other one of spirit is a path and that path has historically built....”

There is no between between this material universe, and the one of spirit, and it is not an other. Sorry—couldn’t help myself, but the path, yes where is that path?

3/16/2007 12:58:00 AM  
Blogger Mark said...

Jeff wrote
"Then there's the "fat Osama" video. It could be, maybe, he wasn't that fat after all. Perhaps the discrepancy in his appearance is accounted for by a failure to correct the aspect ratio of PAL to NTSC video conversion."

So if a 9/11 researcher who knows a techie who uses video conversion, that means we can have the images converted from NTSC back into PAL and this will render fake Osama into an image of real Osama? An image of a man all would then agree then agree has every characteristic and facial construct of the real Osama? Jeff, can you find someone to do that for you so you can share the images to prove it was the real Osama all along, so we can stop our clucking? There has to be some techies reading this who know how to convert aspect ratios.
Since I don't know enough about aspect ratios, I am being facetious. I do know there is enough software out there, that if fake Osama is real Osama, then the ability to slenderize the poor sap on that video into something like an approximation of OBL is available to be done. Hell, now that I think about it, I could play around with some of the software I have and slenderize our well-fed jihadist and see what kind of image I can come up with after playing around with it.
But I would ask you to do that research yourself - you have mad skillz with image editing: go ahead and see what you come up with. Research it yourself. Just like I asked you to do the other mental visualization research yourself regarding the Pentagon strike in my earlier post. I wish you would reply to that.
In the meantime, I will see what I can make of fatty and see if I can conjure the real Osama out of the pixels. I might be surprised... indeed, if it looks like you are on to something here, I will be sure to give you your props.

3/16/2007 01:04:00 AM  
Blogger Mark said...

You beat me to it. I see the image you posted on the discussion board. Let me study it before I give you your props. Interesting though. I will give you my thumbs up or down shortly.

3/16/2007 01:12:00 AM  
Blogger Mark said...

After studying it briefly........yup. I think you're right.
Since you schooled me, could you reply to my Pentagon post and school me on that?

3/16/2007 01:25:00 AM  
Blogger Rhotel1 said...

Very interesting article until you get to Rokke and Moret,
both of whom are scientific charlatans who only got into
9/11 stuff because that's where the money was and of course
they had to tie in their real money king depleted uranium.
Ask yourself, how much money do these two make off of
their science fiction peddled as science fact. They both
have travelled around the world and been treated like
visiting royalty by Greens, anti-Nucs, Peace Activists,
etc, but they have no real message, only lie after lie
piled upon more lie after lie. Rokke claims to have been
head of the Army's DU program; Rokke never quite is upfront
about being a Captain in the Army Reserve teaching school
for the Army in Alabama when he supposedly headed the DU
program. Rokke claims a long and distinguished Army
career, sometimes 30 or 40 years and that he personally was
selected by General Schwartzkopf to clean up the DU mess
after Desert Storm. First Lieutenant Douglas Lind Rokke,
US Army Reserve was activated for Desert Storm and did
serve in Saudi Arabia during the war and after the war did
visit as part of a team of mainly civilian experts a number
of sites where DU had been used to destroy tanks, both
Iraqi and so-called friendly fire, ours. Rokke has claimed
that he and the team were sickened by exposure to DU and
that a number of team members died because of it. None of
them got sick and none of them died. If you want to learn
more about Rokke, go to the files section at
DUStory@yahoogroups.com. Moret is not a distinguished
scientist. She has a Bachelor's Degree in Geology and a
Masters Degree in Mideast Studies. She has zero
qualifications to prognosticate about DU, but she makes a
lot of people believe that she does. Ask any radiation
protection professional; the most knowledgeable often have
a PhD in Physics or Health Physics and the letters CHP
(Certifed Health Physicist) after their name, but all you
really need to do is go to your local community college and
talk to the Physics, Chemistry, Biology or Geology
professor to learn that Moret has even forgotten all the
little that her BS in Geology taught her. Ask them about
whether DU can cause diabetes; Moret claims it has caused a
worldwide epidemic of diabetes; ask them if atomic testing
has caused SAT scores to drop or that it could have caused
an increase in autism. Ask the parent of an autistic
child. Then you will learn that Moret is a total fraud
just like Rokke and you think that they know what happened
on 9/11. They don't, but they sure do convince people who
don't ask any critical questions that they do.

Roger Helbig
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DUStory
the place to see Rokke's Military Records and PhD Thesis in
Education (no, it is not in Physics and no he is not a
Medical Doctor)

Moret also was no "staff scientist"; she may have been a
lab assistant or a gofer, but certainly was not a staff
scientist .. she was employed fairly fresh out of UC Davis
with her Geology BS degree, but how many freshly minted
college graduates do you know who have enough anything to
be a highly regarded "staff scientist" Unfortunately, I
have yet to find anyone from Livermore or Berkeley labs
that knew Moret or who will say anything about what Moret
did. It is however very unlikely that she was a
whistleblower, another one of her claims, because I knew
whistleblowers at Livermore and they never heard of her and
she never filed a whistleblowing appeal with the Department
of Labor which ajudicates such matters. As contentious and
mouthy as Moret is, if she was ever a whistleblower, I
assure you that there would be a very fat appeal file and
it would be a public record.

3/16/2007 07:18:00 AM  
Blogger ericswan said...

In my dealings with Moret, I wrote her a couple of times and brought her up to speed regards the geology of zeolite and it's efficacy in controlling radiation as per the example of Chernobyl and elsewhere. I got nadda from her. Zeolite only became public knowledge in the geology field in 1985. Most geologists actually don't do much of anything in the industrial minerals sector.

3/16/2007 11:04:00 AM  
Blogger ericswan said...

Sounder ponder ..the path has to be straight down the middle. A full expression on this plane of existence should mean that we evolve. Some think we take these marbles with us and reincarnate. I'm okay with that but western thought prefers the "grand slam" and we really have to consider our environs when we consider where that path would be. What if the pyramids were built by the spiritually adept using only levitation? That would impress the neighbours but what has it done for me? What if you built a device that levitates? Who would be better served? The past and it's spiritual masters or the present and it's material masters?

Sorta depends doesn't it?

3/16/2007 11:12:00 AM  
Blogger ericswan said...

Remember it was me who pointed it out. White trash that she was has started the cube rolling toward Armagedden. The harlot that she was couldn't make the mortgage even with the cash she was making on her partimer. She walked away from her sub-prime mortgage with Morgan Freeman and the ugly side of the street is rearing it's ugly self. Credit Swisse came to the rescue with a 1 billion dollar rescue buoy but that ain't gonna keep that fiat money floating to much longer. When cash was king and credit was good, maybe...but toilet paper and cash have more in common these days. Al should have seen it comin. No one wants to work for him and now his place is next.

3/16/2007 03:47:00 PM  
Blogger AJ said...

"That would impress the neighbours but what has it done for me?

Touche Ericswan!
I always say Micheal was right on when he said "Business is business and everything else is conversation."
Speaking of which, cash might be akin to TP, but I would rather be drowning in it than scurring around trying to find some.
After all, there are *reasons* they ceased printing M3 reports.
Al just did as he was told.
sit Obu, sit! Good dog.

3/16/2007 09:24:00 PM  
Blogger Shrubageddon said...

Some High Weirdness happening here at the Shrubageddon household. We received a St. Patrick's Day card today from a city where we once resided, however, there was no return address and the card was anonymous...meaning it wasn't signed. We did not recognize the handwriting...and the style and approach don't match anyone we have kept in contact there.

Further, they addressed it to the Shrubageddon Tribe...obviously my real last name is not Shrubageddon....I used it here to protect the innocent. What's weird about this is that my wife and I had a conversation yesterday about my former employer (who has strong connections to the Bush's) headquartered in that city...and as part of that discussion we discussed how tribal we all still are. We have only had a discussion about tribal sociology once or twice before in our 19 years together. Also, the tribe part of the address appears to have been added after the fact with a lighter pressing of the pen, or a different pen, altogether.

Here's what the card said, at least the personally written part.

Happy St. Pat's Day!

The Florida Leprechaun
not to be confused with
The Florida Leptospire

Which is:
Any of a genus of slender aerobic
spirochetes that are parasitic in
mammals.



This is extremely creepy. Maybe there's a rational explanation...but then again, maybe the spooks are fucking with our minds. We can't figure anyone we know who would do this...let alone the coincidence of referring to our family as Tribe when my wife and I just had an rare discussion about tribes.

This comes on the heels of another weird event this week. My wife was home alone for the day and she called me somewhat alarmed. She heard a crash downstairs and went to investigate. She found my son's milk cup accross the room near the back door with milk spilled in a trail along the way. We rationalized that it somehow fell off the table for some reason and rolled to that spot near the door.

Maybe I'm just being paranoid....but lord knows, there's plenty of reason to be these days. Kind of reminds me of Jeff's Highly Weird phone calls a while back....do you still get those, Jeff?

3/16/2007 09:39:00 PM  
Blogger Tom Breidenbach said...

Jeff:

That's an interesting take on the "fake" Osama video, though it doesn't seem clear that it'd make much difference in the overall case for state complicity in the 9/11 attacks if it really is him, as anyone who's followed the issue closely probably understands.

Also, I’m mistaken again, this time in having stated that Nafeez Ahmed was loath to consider the controlled demolition hypothesis (from "A Dot Too Far" discussion). I had assumed this based on certain statements in his book THE WAR ON TRUTH, and his heavy concentration on the historical and circumstantial aspects of 9/11. Yet a September 15, 2006 posting on his blog, and which is also carried on Citizen’s Watch (the organization of 9/11 victims’ family members who’ve been acting as watchdogs on the still woefully incomplete 9/11 investigation) clearly indicates Ahmed’s curious and open-minded take on the subject. I’ll quote Ahmed’s writing on the molten steel issue in particular:


“I'm pleased to note that my research in The War on Truth is cited in a Cooperative Research Timeline project on ‘The use of Islamist militants by American and Israeli militarists - The War in Afghanistan to September 11 and beyond’. Thompson's work is pivotal precisely because of its nature -- it's not theoretical, it's not hypothetical and it’s not speculation: it's purely and simply a chronological collection of continually updated raw historical and empirical data. My method of analysis is somewhat similar in that I avoid theoretical speculation as far as possible, and instead insist on discerning breaks, shifts, and interconnections in the data itself by which one can observe clear patterns and their implications.

“One reason I bring all this up is to flag-up Thompson's data on the WTC investigations, in particular in relation to the burning question of the huge deposits of molten metal noticed by dozens of eyewitness -- fire fighters, scientists, and other experts -- for up to five weeks after the 9/11 attacks (appended below with this post)

“A commentator has attempted to ‘debunk’ the findings of molten steel at Ground Zero, which I mention in my article below, ‘Interrogating 9/11’. There are a number of problems with this approach, first and foremost which is the overriding ideological predisposition to ‘prove’ that no molten steel was found. This is a disingenuous position, as looking at the data itself, the sheer volume of people who witnessed the molten metal demonstrates that the phenomenon did exist. The vast majority of observers insisted that this was actually molten steel, not any other kind of metal, which was often seen to be dripping either directly off steel beams, or from the cores where the beams were originally erected. Now looking at the data in its totality, the insistence that it was not molten steel in the face of this credible testimony is simply bizarre. The insistence is not founded in fact, but merely in the assumption that all the observers at Ground Zero were wrong. My position is simply this:

“1. the data largely speaks for itself, and in the absence of convincing evidence to the contrary, should be taken at face value.

“2. whereas a final conclusion may not be deductible on this basis, preliminary probable inferences are justifiable on the basis of the available data.

“3. such inferences based on reasonable grounds indicate an unresolved anomaly in the official narrative.

“The anomaly could be consistent with a variety of interpretations. What I don't understand is the desire of some, such as the commentator, to completely deny that any such anomaly exists. This is, indeed, exactly what the official NIST investigation did, pretend that there was never any molten metal. I can accept that the findings of molten steel have not been forensically confirmed, but this is precisely because, as Thompson also documents, the Bush administration deliberately ensured that the materials were collected and scrapped before any such investigation was possible. We are, therefore, forced to work solely with the data that we do have, which is overwhelming and credible enough to justify the conclusion that an anomaly relating to the WTC collapse persists, and that independent investigation is necessary.

“It is such independent investigation that the 9/11 families continue to call for, not to support some preconceived lunatic fringe theories, but to get to the unsullied truth -- not simply for the sake of their own ‘closure’, but because the phenomenon of terrorism since 9/11 continues to play an integral role in the international system, and continues to kill and maim innocent civilians around the world.”

I couldn’t agree with Ahmed more. Seems the major voices on 9/11 aren’t as far apart as some of us, myself included, have been assuming.

Also, Kevin Ryan has a new article out that critically examines the figures who represent the official position(s) on the WTC “collapses.” It’s masterful and, in that it reveals the apparent workings of a major cover-up, is an essential contribution to the study of “deep politics.” It can be found on Global Research and 911Truth.org.

Can anyone read Ryan’s article and still seriously contend, especially in light of Ahmed’s clearly reasoned position, that CD is not “a dog that hunts,” if just one of many such dogs (the "ex-fake" Osama not withstanding) when it comes to 9/11?

3/17/2007 01:06:00 AM  
Blogger ericswan said...

Hey Shrub..Trying to figure that one out. Seems to me you're a kind of middle of the road poster. Not too hot, not to cold, just right? The note reminds me of the head case IC had to deal with from the anony crowd intent on being a cut eater. Consider yourself special I'm thinking. Spooks arr US.

3/17/2007 02:41:00 AM  
Blogger Quiller said...

Random discovery I just made on accident:

Rigorous Intuition is the second website in the google search results for "ego confusion".

3/17/2007 03:29:00 AM  
Blogger #1 Sniffer said...

Don't waste your breath with Jeff (and some sidekicks) on 911. He already knows the facts you keep trying to explain to him at length, those that strangely for many never seem to penetrate his otherwise apparently intelligent brain. He won't admit he knows what you're talking about not because of lack of understanding, but obviously because he must serve a different agenda than you do. and his agenda needs him to deny to you what he knows is true, so he does. His agenda needs him to f*** with your head, to get you who are stumbling onto 911 truth into writing frustrated essays to him trying to convince him with evidence what is obvious and he is pretending not to see (he must really feed off that). His agenda appears to be to do exactly what he's warning you somebody else may be doing to your mind.

He's constantly pushing UFO's and more on the flimsiest of reasons, based on things like what some little girl said she saw 50 years ago, or what her dog then did in response, according to some obscure book, elevating such to unquestioned "evidence" to then make the deepest conclusions about UFO's and the like (and use the "credibility" gained in that to dump on 911). So then in the same breath he may routinely dismiss all real hard 911 evidence because the evidence is according to him not solid enough (you see his standards are just so high!!!!). And worse he does it in the tone of one of us who just laments the evidence is so weak he's just not "persuaded."

If anyone's putting anyone else into boxes it's one whose initials are "JW." Him and a more powerful crowd that also use boxes do seem to have much in common, like how they talk about 911, and also UFO's btw. Jeff predictably comes back to dumping on 911 truth at every chance, not with facts, which I could deal with, but with lazy arguments and non-reasoning. Rigorous intuition my arse (change the name).

Why JW? Maybe its his way of putting food on the table, maybe its his little pathetic niche in life. Well its not working, the truth on 911 is still getting out.

JW's blog is a new kind of blog for me. It's the first one I now find myself reading not for the author's posts, but for the posts of some who comment on the author's posts. Almost every thread has some that make it all worth it.

JW might want to learn to feed off his own credibility burning itself up, if he does he should be very happy for a long time.

Hey, do I smell smoke?

3/17/2007 07:41:00 AM  
Blogger Shrubageddon said...

Hey Eric:

I'm investigating the issue of the card as we speak. We are going to ask the folks we know there if it was them. The only possible candidate, and it's a 50/50 probabilty, happens to share your first name.....not that I think you are him, by any means.

Anyhow, if it turns out not to be them, then I'm going to be really freaked. I had this happen one other time in my life that I can recollect....and oddly enough, from what I can remember, the handwriting was the same, or similar. Ten years ago I decided to engage in a lifestyle change of healthy eating and exercise...and in the midst of this a got an anonymous letter with an article in it about the grapefruit diet. It was not signed, but someone wrote on the face of the article that they tried the grapefruit diet and it worked for them. I asked the only two people I knew in that city from where the letter was post dated, and they said it wasn't them who had sent it.

Do I have a Case Worker assigned to me who checks in every now and then when I seem to be deviating from the program? Are these anonymous notes manchurian-like triggers? Or, are they subtle reminders that I'm being watched and I'm not alone?

Yeah, don't think I haven't thought about Mojo in regards to this. I think he is definitely a psychopath and, IMHO, he fits the profile of someone who would do something like this. Weird that it happens shortly after I sign into Google's Blogger.

3/17/2007 10:39:00 AM  
Blogger Mark said...

Two interesting updates, on the issue of demolitions, buildings or reputations.


1.

9/11 Patsy Confesses to Bank Plot Before Bank Even Existed
author: Paul Joseph Watson

KSM "Confessed" To Attacking Bank Founded After His Arrest
Fallacy of testimony exposed as story blows up in Pentagon's face


Prison Planet | March 16, 2007
Paul Joseph Watson

Khalid Shaikh Mohammed's alleged confession testimony has been thoroughly discredited after it emerged that one of the targets he identified, the Plaza Bank, was not founded until 2006, four years after the alleged Al-Qaeda mastermind's arrest.

...

After media commentators across the spectrum, from Time Magazine to Matt Lauer and even Rosie O'Donnell [on her see below] were openly cynical of the accuracy of KSM's testimony, officials speaking on condition of anonymity admitted that the claims were exaggerated...

...

The facet of the Pearl murder [lumped into KSM torture sessions of 'sign here please and we'll stop'] and why the establishment would want to shut the lid on the whole affair by pinning the blame on KSM is interesting in the context that in September 2006, Pakistan President General Pervez Musharraf fingered Omar Sheikh as Pearl's assassin, adding that he was an MI6 agent working for British Intelligence.

In the transcript of his alleged confession, KSM cryptically discusses CIA and Mossad involvement in the Pearl execution but the text is heavily redacted.


KSM's claim that he ran the 1993 World Trade Center bombing is also highly suspect because it also conveniently sweeps under the carpet the fact that it was the FBI who provided the terror cell with the bomb materials through their informant and ordered the bombing to go ahead.

[

Alex Jones on the 1993 WTC Bombing: FBI facilitated the 1993 attacks
http://www.reopen911.org
1 min 11 sec - Feb 25, 2006
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6612404919108240876&q=FBI+1993

]

In addition, KSM was a known CIA asset in the eighties and was used as a go between during the CIA-funded Afghan "jihad" against the occupying Soviets.
...

A CNN online poll shows that a massive 74% disbelieve all of the claims made by KSM and BBC respondents were equally cynical.

Think Progress makes the point that KSM's comments on torture and any potential reference to the fact that he was tortured himself are redacted in the transcript.

The upshot of all this is that the much vaunted KSM confession, which seems to have been intentionally inflated so the book could be closed on a number of nebulous plots cited by the Bush administration as justification for its policies, has blown up in the establishment's face and only succeeded in detracting credibility from the government's official 9/11 story and the mythical war on terror."


2.


Rosie O'Donnell Takes A Stand for 9/11 Truth
Talk show host lays out WTC 7 facts in blog
Infowars.net | March 16, 2007

In her latest blog, dated March 15th, O'Donnell dispenses with the small talk and gets to the nub of the matter by stating some of the facts surrounding the demolition of building 7 on 9/11.

Here is the Blog entry in full:

... [at link]

It is important to stress that celebrity sound bites do not make a revolution, but it is important to remember that people such as O'Donnell have an avenue to reach a lot of people. It is down to the discretion of her viewers to decide whether to look into what she is saying."

3/17/2007 12:47:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

#1 Sniffer,

Interesting connotations with your moniker--is that intentional or just there to get us to cover our privates? (Speaking of privacy, Shrub: whether you signed into Google or not, if the DARPA boys had you in their sights, they'd have a pretty good profile on you worked up by now. The surveillance capacity of the Machine is not to be underestimated. The good news is that we are very, very small fish indeed. Speaking as one who's had more than a fair of weirdness come his way since mentating in public with you lot and elsewhere, don't worry. Wear it as a badge of honor. If they really respected your insights, well, that would be dangerous of course, but we are the nominal chorus here, so rest easy.)

Now back to ,#1 Sniffer. Mr. Sniffer, has it occurred to you that Jeff has not exactly embraced the official narrative of 9/11 or anything else, for that matter? Or, that it's just possible that there are Bigger Lies out there, or that stopping the Death-Spiral might be accomplished without "proving" 9/11?

Tell you what. Since you seem like an open-minded, non-obsessive sort of person, hows-about you read the comment I addressed just yesterday on the board here to someone whose ideation smelled a bit like yours, and then come back and explain how nothing can be done about anything until the "mystery of 9/11" is revealed.

I promise to keep my mind every bit as open as yours.

3/17/2007 02:24:00 PM  
Blogger Mark said...

Sniffer said
"Don't waste your breath with Jeff (and some sidekicks) on 911. He already knows the facts you keep trying to explain to him at length, those that strangely for many never seem to penetrate his otherwise apparently intelligent brain. He won't admit he knows what you're talking about not because of lack of understanding, but obviously because he must serve a different agenda than you do. and his agenda needs him to deny to you what he knows is true, so he does. His agenda needs him to f*** with your head, to get you who are stumbling onto 911 truth into writing frustrated essays to him trying to convince him with evidence what is obvious and he is pretending not to see (he must really feed off that). His agenda appears to be to do exactly what he's warning you somebody else may be doing to your mind."

I think you put into words what took me a year to figure out about Jeff.
Your words also ring true as to why Jeff cherry picks what he responds to. Yet even his soft targets aren't all that soft. Just soft enough for him to misdirect and re-direct. It is why he could never respond with integrity to my Pentagon post above, among others.
Let the record show that the man with a site called Rigorous Intuition has no clue what rigorous intuition even means. I guess it was just a good title. Like finding a good title for a book of fiction to be published. Never meant for it to be applied to him. Thought so.

3/17/2007 03:07:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

cosmolothrentas,

No truth without 9/11? Et tu? Where's your rigor? I know that you believe that the evidence you have is incontrovertible and that anyone with a brain couldn't help but say, "Yep, that's how they done it, alright," but let's just move outside your comfy box a moment and indulge in some purely hypothetical reasoning (as opposed to reciting the litany of revealed truths.) What if either

a.) the job was done with a technology whose existence is not acknowledged, or

b.) despite the resplendent, self-evident nature of your conclusions, not enough of the sheeple jumped on the bandwagon to force a new inquiry, or, even if another investigation was launched, the wheels of justice where clogged with corruption, the process were sabotaged and justice were somehow derailed?

I know, I know, it can't happen here. The wheels of justice have always rolled so smoothly in this country (and elsewhere in the Empire)--such a turn of events is just unthinkable...But think about it anyway.

Now, if all the hopeful justice-seekers were confirmed in the belief that there is no possibility of change without the triumph of the 9/11 Truth Movement, then what happens when that blessed event does not happen? Shrivel up and die? Oh, well, we put up the good fight and too bad there wasn't any other avenue for change?

Call me cynical, but it seems to me that if the viral meme of no truth without 9/11 truth spreads much further, then the spectacle of the century will not only have been the pretext for the next (well-known) step in the quest for hegemony, but also the mechanism whereby the resistance to Empire was contained. What was that saying about eggs & baskets?

3/17/2007 04:16:00 PM  
Blogger Mark said...

Hi IC. You said:

"Call me cynical, but it seems to me that if the viral meme of no truth without 9/11 truth spreads much further, then the spectacle of the century will not only have been the pretext for the next (well-known) step in the quest for hegemony, but also the mechanism whereby the resistance to Empire was contained."

Ah, though the fish biting the bait and swallowing the official story has a great deal to do with whether anything under the sun slapped with the logo of "9-11(TM) Approved" sticks, or whether it peels off under withering scrutiny (whether in limited partial story hangouts; or in the latest 'episode' aired on TV, that of the KLM 'confession' which instead of being swallowed is starting to show a quick reflex (or is that gag reflex?) toward anything "official" related to 9-11 as wholly unbelievable and unpalatable.

Then there's my favorite poll that only around 16% swallow neocons/Bush's conspiracy theory on 9-11 anymore--or by definition what he uses that lie to 'justify.'

True, I think as you say, 9-11's official conspiracy theory is the neocon (or whomever you want to put here) rubric for global domination by simply waving that little logo whenever they want, though it's believability as a variable is no longer--which matters more than you pithy quote can relate. Because of this, I think this is a view of 9-11 that you somehow are catastrophically immune to what it is becoming: a catalyst for something entirely unexpected instead of a damper.

You said waving the official lie of 9-11 becomes "..the mechanism whereby the resistance to Empire was contained,..." , why past tense? It might actually be becoming the mechanism by which the whole edifice started to be breached instead, a common meme of many different groups and interests noted below getting all on the same page.

Who can say on what you argued however, given these other global polls I recently about the growing 'green majority' seen in a recent global poll. The supermajorities of the world show a drastically 'different' issue, though an issue that is being bundled into 9-11 discourse (as the second quote will argue):

"POLLS: Planet Earth Has Green Majority--in Ungreen States

...

...the first poll I have seen which attempts to ask...questions globally:

- It includes 17 countries—China, India, the United States, Indonesia, Russia, Thailand, Ukraine, Poland, Iran, Mexico, South Korea, the Philippines, Australia, Argentina, Peru, Israel, Armenia--and the Palestinian territories. These represent more than 55 percent of the world population.

- Twelve countries [of the seventeen asked] were asked whether steps should be taken to address climate change and majorities in all but one of them favored action.

- The largest majority in favor of measures to combat global warming is found in Australia (92%). China and Israel are the next most likely (83%) to favor such measures. Eighty percent of respondents in the United States--the world's largest emitter of greenhouse gases--also support taking such measures. The lowest level of support for taking steps to address the problem is found in India, nonetheless nearly half (49%) favor taking action while just 24 percent oppose it (26% do not answer).

- In no country (out of 12 asked) does more than [25%] one in four endorse the statement, "Until we are sure that global warming is really a problem, we should not take any steps... [Inverting that, in all twelve countries to which the question was put, huge supermajorities of 75% or more support taking steps now.]

- A separate question, asked in 10 countries, allowed respondents to evaluate the threat posed by "global warming" in the next ten years. Strong majorities in all of the countries say such climate change is an important threat with only small minorities calling it unimportant. Majorities call it critical in Mexico (70%), Australia (69%), South Korea (67%), Iran (61%), Israel (52%), and India (51%). Pluralities agree in Armenia (47%), China (47%) and the United States (46%).

- Seven countries were asked to rate the importance of a number of foreign policy goals, including "improving the global environment." Overwhelming majorities in all seven countries rate improving the global environment as at least an "important" goal and majorities in all call it a "very important" one: Australia, 99 percent ('very important' portion of this: 88%); South Korea, 96 percent (very 60%); the United States 93 percent (very 54%), Armenia 86 percent (very 54%), China, 85 percent (very 54%); Thailand, 83 percent (very 61%); and India, 79 percent (very 51%).

- In ten of the 11 countries where this question was asked, very large majorities believe such standards should be required while in [only] one country views are divided. Those in favor of standards include developing countries, whose governments have sometimes resisted environmental regulations....In Asia, the Chinese support environmental standards by an overwhelming 85 percent. Seven in ten Thais (69%) also favor such standards as do six in ten Indians (60%). Filipinos are evenly divided (48% in favor, 49% opposed). In Latin America, an overwhelming majority of Argentines (90%) say such standards should be required. Support for environmental standards is also strong among the relatively wealthy publics of Israel (93%) and the United States (91%)."


http://biostate.blogspot.com/

So, "out of the box" indeed. In other words, everybody's already changing the channel I think from the "all 9-11 all the time neocon news channel"). 9-11 truth (and its incoherent official lies) are going to perhaps be turned into a wider symbol of official lies (instead of justification for official Anglo-British repression) and thus a catalyst widely delegitimating anything they want to sell, whether it be false confessions or petrochemical dependence.

Quoting this nice discussion, 9-11 is a larger issue to transformation and catharsis, instead of a sign of exclusively which it has been painted above by some, as a form of monomania:

"Looking at the onslaughts we face, it's obvious that this administration's primary source of war-making, rights-taking, vote-raking power is still and always has been the "official 9/11 story." The exquisitely timed "surprise attack" it portrays instantly justified what we now know was a long planned agenda to take us into endless war, crippling debt and constitutional twilight.

There is now an enormous amount of scholarly evidence and expert testimony that a) clearly demonstrates the official 9/11 story is a sham, and b) supports the millions of New Yorkers who, according to a recent Zogby poll, believe that top US officials "consciously" allowed the attacks to happen and that we desperately need a new investigation now.

This is no longer a fringe position. Identical calls have been made by fifty victim families and over one hundred prominent Americans including three 2004 presidential candidates [Nader (Ind), Cobb (Green), Badnarik (Libertarian)], respected rabbis and imams, historians and legislators, military officials and diplomats, as well as celebrated leaders from the environmental, alternative economics and "peace & justice" communities.

Examining these eminent names on the 9/11 Truth Statement at 911truth.org will quickly show that with regard to 9/11 at least, today's so-called "conspiracy theorists" are not who they used to be. [There is a huge elite pact breakdown going on.]

Indeed one of America's greatest theologians [wha?], Dr. David Ray Griffin, [hyperbolic applause inserted here...] methodically demolished the credibility of the Kean Commission cover-up in his latest book, "The 9/11 Commission Report - Omissions and Distortions."

As this extraordinary breadth of skepticism clearly signifies, the demand for 9/11 truth is not about to go away. It is not simply a matter of belated justice for the tragedy's immediate victims. The attacks have since been relentlessly exploited to keep generating new victims for many years on many fronts both here at home and in places far away...."


And as it goes on this "unplugs the neocon power supply." 9-11 is hardly a single factor issue.

"Uncovering the truth of 9/11 is simultaneously:

* A peace issue: the public's ongoing ignorance of official 9/11 lies will continue to feed the fear and hostility the "War on Terror" depends upon. Once the truth is known, "Remember 9/11!" will take on a whole new significance and foster a vital "fool me twice" mistrust of our military-industrial complex and most aggressive leaders.

* A national security issue: as long as 9/11 lies are exploited to mount support for brutal resource wars, the more the Muslim world will rightfully despise us and threaten our kids for generations to come. (Some indeed argue that creating this durable new defense budget-sustaining threat was a more important motive for the phony 9/11-to-Iraq war segue than seizing oil or shoring up Sharon.)

* A children's issue: the social programs sacrificed for "War on Terror" boondoggles and profiteering overwhelmingly victimize the young, especially those with disabilities.

* An environmental issue: post-9/11 calls for "energy independence" have been seized and twisted by Bush's corporate sponsors to justify more wilderness oil drilling, abusive environmental practices, and a rebirth of nuclear power, not to mention a lengthening list of corporate takings from the ecological commons.

* A public health issue: in New York, official lies about post-attack air quality promise to kill more residents from toxic WTC pollution than those who died from the attacks themselves; nationally, the cost of the 9/11-fueled War on Terror is gutting public health budgets across the land.

* A women's issue: the ongoing costs of 9/11-related warfare, job loss and social program austerity fall far more heavily upon women and children nationwide; and 9/11 fear has politically empowered the far right to launch a war here at home on women's basic rights.

* A human rights issue: the official 9/11 story has spawned such bigoted and vengeful fear that a recent Cornell University poll found that 44% of Americans are now ready to slash US Muslims' civil rights, while a nearly equal number now accept the "need" to torture prisoners. [That poll was three years ago, I am skeptical that it would be so now, mostly probably "because of the monomania" (sic) devoted to 9-11 truth that there was nothing "Muslim" about the attacks...except the way a certain coterie of belligerent Christo-Zionists wanted to frame it. (And don't make the mistake stereotyping people on religion and support for the neocons:

A Gallup poll showed 77 percent of Jews think the Iraq war was a mistake. Two-thirds of those claiming no religion agree. Catholics register at 53 percent, Protestants 48 and Mormons 27.

....

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascitystar/news/politics/16772244.htm

In other words basically its just about half of Christians and if anything trumped up as a Mormon religious crusade. THAT'S a whole 'nother kettle of fish to talk about the history of Mormons in the military industrial and intelligence complex history of the USA...]

* A social justice issue: poor and minority Americans are deeply scarred by "War on Terror"-related cutbacks in social programs at the same time that their youth are the most heavily recruited by the military and sacrificed in battle as the conflict proceeds

* An electoral issue: although "god, gays & guns" are often characterized as "family values" election ploys, their common denominator is fear. Fear that we are beyond self-help as a people, fear our children will not think or act like us, fear that without our firearms we are helpless in a sick and scary world. The higher the national fear quotient (and custom color-coded threat level), the more these constituencies will flock to bellowing "tough guy" leaders who peddle dread, feign infallibility, and seem happy to wield deadly force to protect them from all harm. (See Erich Fromm's "Fear of Freedom" for the classic study of how fear fuels authoritarianism and acceptance of fascist societies.)

* A Constitutional liberty issue: the official 9/11 story (and deftly timed anthrax attacks) generated instant blind assent to the Constitution-shredding Patriot Act as well as scores of other presidential and Department of Justice directives that further threaten accountability and our shrinking Bill of Rights.

* A national solvency issue: the "national 9/11 emergency" has allowed the Bush team to abandon any pretense of fiscal restraint, flood corporate backers with exorbitant profits, plunge the nation into an abyss of debt, and hasten arch-privatizer Grover Norquist's dream of "a government small enough to drown in a bathtub."

* A media reform issue: the consistent, breathtaking refusal of mainstream media to investigate official deception since 9/11 (up through Iraq and 2004 electoral fraud) has openly exposed the industry as cowardly and/or corrupt. Thus far only the independent and second-tier media have shown any journalistic integrity regarding these questions and will benefit enormously when public outrage over the cover-up finally forces the breakup of conglomerates and across the board reform.


And so on at that link. So in 'talking 9-11,' we are hardly only talking 9-11. I don't think worries about "all eggs in one basket" is a useful analogy, when its more many baskets can carry the same egg.

3/17/2007 05:40:00 PM  
Blogger Mark said...

[what a difference one little quotation makes. corrected post.]

Hi IC. You said:

"Call me cynical, but it seems to me that if the viral meme of no truth without 9/11 truth spreads much further, then the spectacle of the century will not only have been the pretext for the next (well-known) step in the quest for hegemony, but also the mechanism whereby the resistance to Empire was contained."

Ah, though the fish biting the bait and swallowing the official story has a great deal to do with whether anything under the sun slapped with the logo of "9-11(TM) Approved" sticks, or whether it peels off under withering scrutiny (whether in limited partial story hangouts; or in the latest 'episode' aired on TV, that of the KLM 'confession' which instead of being swallowed is starting to show a quick reflex (or is that gag reflex?) toward anything "official" related to 9-11 as wholly unbelievable and unpalatable.

Then there's my favorite poll that only around 16% swallow neocons/Bush's conspiracy theory on 9-11 anymore--or by definition what he uses that lie to 'justify.'

True, I think as you say, 9-11's official conspiracy theory is the neocon (or whomever you want to put here) rubric for global domination by simply waving that little logo whenever they want, though it's believability as a variable is no longer--which matters more than you pithy quote can relate. Because of this, I think this is a view of 9-11 that you somehow are catastrophically immune to what it is becoming: a catalyst for something entirely unexpected instead of a damper.

You said waving the official lie of 9-11 becomes "..the mechanism whereby the resistance to Empire was contained,..." , why past tense? It might actually be becoming the mechanism by which the whole edifice started to be breached instead, a common meme of many different groups and interests noted below getting all on the same page.

Who can say on what you argued however, given these other global polls I recently posted on my blog about the growing 'green majority' seen in a recent global poll. The supermajorities of the world show a drastically 'different' issue, though an issue that is being bundled into 9-11 discourse (as the second quote will argue):

"POLLS: Planet Earth Has Green Majority--in Ungreen States

...

...the first poll I have seen which attempts to ask...questions globally:

- It includes 17 countries—China, India, the United States, Indonesia, Russia, Thailand, Ukraine, Poland, Iran, Mexico, South Korea, the Philippines, Australia, Argentina, Peru, Israel, Armenia--and the Palestinian territories. These represent more than 55 percent of the world population.

- Twelve countries [of the seventeen asked] were asked whether steps should be taken to address climate change and majorities in all but one of them favored action.

- The largest majority in favor of measures to combat global warming is found in Australia (92%). China and Israel are the next most likely (83%) to favor such measures. Eighty percent of respondents in the United States--the world's largest emitter of greenhouse gases--also support taking such measures. The lowest level of support for taking steps to address the problem is found in India, nonetheless nearly half (49%) favor taking action while just 24 percent oppose it (26% do not answer).

- In no country (out of 12 asked) does more than [25%] one in four endorse the statement, "Until we are sure that global warming is really a problem, we should not take any steps... [Inverting that, in all twelve countries to which the question was put, huge supermajorities of 75% or more support taking steps now.]

- A separate question, asked in 10 countries, allowed respondents to evaluate the threat posed by "global warming" in the next ten years. Strong majorities in all of the countries say such climate change is an important threat with only small minorities calling it unimportant. Majorities call it critical in Mexico (70%), Australia (69%), South Korea (67%), Iran (61%), Israel (52%), and India (51%). Pluralities agree in Armenia (47%), China (47%) and the United States (46%).

- Seven countries were asked to rate the importance of a number of foreign policy goals, including "improving the global environment." Overwhelming majorities in all seven countries rate improving the global environment as at least an "important" goal and majorities in all call it a "very important" one: Australia, 99 percent ('very important' portion of this: 88%); South Korea, 96 percent (very 60%); the United States 93 percent (very 54%), Armenia 86 percent (very 54%), China, 85 percent (very 54%); Thailand, 83 percent (very 61%); and India, 79 percent (very 51%).

- In ten of the 11 countries where this question was asked, very large majorities believe such standards should be required while in [only] one country views are divided. Those in favor of standards include developing countries, whose governments have sometimes resisted environmental regulations....In Asia, the Chinese support environmental standards by an overwhelming 85 percent. Seven in ten Thais (69%) also favor such standards as do six in ten Indians (60%). Filipinos are evenly divided (48% in favor, 49% opposed). In Latin America, an overwhelming majority of Argentines (90%) say such standards should be required. Support for environmental standards is also strong among the relatively wealthy publics of Israel (93%) and the United States (91%)."


http://biostate.blogspot.com/

So, "out of the box" indeed. In other words, everybody's already changing the channel I think from the "all 9-11 all the time neocon news channel"). 9-11 truth (and its incoherent official lies) are going to perhaps be turned into a wider symbol of official lies (instead of justification for official Anglo-British repression) and thus a catalyst widely delegitimating anything they want to sell, whether it be false confessions or petrochemical dependence.

Quoting this nice discussion, 9-11 is a larger issue to transformation and catharsis, instead of a sign of exclusively which it has been painted above by some, as a form of monomania:

"Looking at the onslaughts we face, it's obvious that this administration's primary source of war-making, rights-taking, vote-raking power is still and always has been the "official 9/11 story." The exquisitely timed "surprise attack" it portrays instantly justified what we now know was a long planned agenda to take us into endless war, crippling debt and constitutional twilight.

There is now an enormous amount of scholarly evidence and expert testimony that a) clearly demonstrates the official 9/11 story is a sham, and b) supports the millions of New Yorkers who, according to a recent Zogby poll, believe that top US officials "consciously" allowed the attacks to happen and that we desperately need a new investigation now.

This is no longer a fringe position. Identical calls have been made by fifty victim families and over one hundred prominent Americans including three 2004 presidential candidates [Nader (Ind), Cobb (Green), Badnarik (Libertarian)], respected rabbis and imams, historians and legislators, military officials and diplomats, as well as celebrated leaders from the environmental, alternative economics and "peace & justice" communities.

Examining these eminent names on the 9/11 Truth Statement at 911truth.org will quickly show that with regard to 9/11 at least, today's so-called "conspiracy theorists" are not who they used to be. [There is a huge elite pact breakdown going on.]

Indeed one of America's greatest theologians [wha?], Dr. David Ray Griffin, [hyperbolic applause inserted here...] methodically demolished the credibility of the Kean Commission cover-up in his latest book, "The 9/11 Commission Report - Omissions and Distortions."

As this extraordinary breadth of skepticism clearly signifies, the demand for 9/11 truth is not about to go away. It is not simply a matter of belated justice for the tragedy's immediate victims. The attacks have since been relentlessly exploited to keep generating new victims for many years on many fronts both here at home and in places far away...."


And as it goes on this "unplugs the neocon power supply." 9-11 is hardly a single factor issue.

"Uncovering the truth of 9/11 is simultaneously:

* A peace issue: the public's ongoing ignorance of official 9/11 lies will continue to feed the fear and hostility the "War on Terror" depends upon. Once the truth is known, "Remember 9/11!" will take on a whole new significance and foster a vital "fool me twice" mistrust of our military-industrial complex and most aggressive leaders.

* A national security issue: as long as 9/11 lies are exploited to mount support for brutal resource wars, the more the Muslim world will rightfully despise us and threaten our kids for generations to come. (Some indeed argue that creating this durable new defense budget-sustaining threat was a more important motive for the phony 9/11-to-Iraq war segue than seizing oil or shoring up Sharon.)

* A children's issue: the social programs sacrificed for "War on Terror" boondoggles and profiteering overwhelmingly victimize the young, especially those with disabilities.

* An environmental issue: post-9/11 calls for "energy independence" have been seized and twisted by Bush's corporate sponsors to justify more wilderness oil drilling, abusive environmental practices, and a rebirth of nuclear power, not to mention a lengthening list of corporate takings from the ecological commons.

* A public health issue: in New York, official lies about post-attack air quality promise to kill more residents from toxic WTC pollution than those who died from the attacks themselves; nationally, the cost of the 9/11-fueled War on Terror is gutting public health budgets across the land.

* A women's issue: the ongoing costs of 9/11-related warfare, job loss and social program austerity fall far more heavily upon women and children nationwide; and 9/11 fear has politically empowered the far right to launch a war here at home on women's basic rights.

* A human rights issue: the official 9/11 story has spawned such bigoted and vengeful fear that a recent Cornell University poll found that 44% of Americans are now ready to slash US Muslims' civil rights, while a nearly equal number now accept the "need" to torture prisoners. [That poll was three years ago, I am skeptical that it would be so now, mostly probably "because of the monomania" (sic) devoted to 9-11 truth that there was nothing "Muslim" about the attacks...except the way a certain coterie of belligerent Christo-Zionists wanted to frame it. (And don't make the mistake stereotyping people on religion and support for the neocons:

A Gallup poll showed 77 percent of Jews think the Iraq war was a mistake. Two-thirds of those claiming no religion agree. Catholics register at 53 percent, Protestants 48 and Mormons 27.

....

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascitystar/news/politics/16772244.htm

In other words basically its just about half of Christians and if anything trumped up as a Mormon religious crusade. THAT'S a whole 'nother kettle of fish to talk about the history of Mormons in the military industrial and intelligence complex history of the USA...]

* A social justice issue: poor and minority Americans are deeply scarred by "War on Terror"-related cutbacks in social programs at the same time that their youth are the most heavily recruited by the military and sacrificed in battle as the conflict proceeds

* An electoral issue: although "god, gays & guns" are often characterized as "family values" election ploys, their common denominator is fear. Fear that we are beyond self-help as a people, fear our children will not think or act like us, fear that without our firearms we are helpless in a sick and scary world. The higher the national fear quotient (and custom color-coded threat level), the more these constituencies will flock to bellowing "tough guy" leaders who peddle dread, feign infallibility, and seem happy to wield deadly force to protect them from all harm. (See Erich Fromm's "Fear of Freedom" for the classic study of how fear fuels authoritarianism and acceptance of fascist societies.)

* A Constitutional liberty issue: the official 9/11 story (and deftly timed anthrax attacks) generated instant blind assent to the Constitution-shredding Patriot Act as well as scores of other presidential and Department of Justice directives that further threaten accountability and our shrinking Bill of Rights.

* A national solvency issue: the "national 9/11 emergency" has allowed the Bush team to abandon any pretense of fiscal restraint, flood corporate backers with exorbitant profits, plunge the nation into an abyss of debt, and hasten arch-privatizer Grover Norquist's dream of "a government small enough to drown in a bathtub."

* A media reform issue: the consistent, breathtaking refusal of mainstream media to investigate official deception since 9/11 (up through Iraq and 2004 electoral fraud) has openly exposed the industry as cowardly and/or corrupt. Thus far only the independent and second-tier media have shown any journalistic integrity regarding these questions and will benefit enormously when public outrage over the cover-up finally forces the breakup of conglomerates and across the board reform.


And so on at that link. So in 'talking 9-11,' we are hardly only talking 9-11. I don't think worries about "all eggs in one basket" is a useful analogy, when its more many baskets can carry the same egg.

3/17/2007 05:45:00 PM  
Blogger #1 Sniffer said...

iridescent cuttlefish said...
#1 Sniffer, Interesting connotations with your moniker--is that intentional or just there to get us to cover our privates?

Don't worry fish, I promise privates are of no interest (though I am shocked to hear you admit yours aren't already covered - please, show a little consideration for others). It is truth-sniffing that interests me.

"Mr. Sniffer, has it occurred to you that Jeff has not exactly embraced the official narrative of 9/11 or anything else, for that matter?"

Yes I've noticed what he has come out and outwardly embraced or not embraced, but after watching his first then his later behaviors (his statements) I've concluded he's done this to only stake out an initial appearance of reasonableness, i.e., for show, so that his later out-of-hand dismissals of hard relevant evidence don't appear as biased as they are. Anybody can claim anything, but if they later don't back it up, or if they act in contradiction to it, it is that glaring discrepancy which invites questions.

"Or, that it's just possible that there are Bigger Lies out there, or that stopping the Death-Spiral might be accomplished without "proving" 9/11? "

Yes its possible but I didn't claim that 911 was the biggest lie out there, nor that stopping the "Death-Spiral" couldn't be accomplished without proving 911; these are separate subjects. At the same time I wouldn't minimize the importance of 911, nor assume that is an excuse to not fairly examine evidence related to it.

But I can say we can't solve any problem without honest discourse, and Jeff's discourse on 911 is plainly dishonest (which is why it's offensive)..

He's shown himself to be quite intelligent and well-informed, therefore his consistent "cherry-picking" of which 911 evidence to argue against, which others have pointed out, to support his pre-existing conclusions (he focuses on the weakest evidence, on the Citizenspooks and Tom Flocco's), basically exposes his dishonesty.

"Tell you what. Since you seem like an open-minded, non-obsessive sort of person, hows-about you read the comment I addressed just yesterday on the board here to someone whose ideation smelled a bit like yours, and then come back and explain how nothing can be done about anything until the "mystery of 9/11" is revealed."

Thanks for conceding I might be non-obsessive, but how about practicing that yourself? This and other posts you write seem to obsessively provide a false choice; that focusing on 911 truth for a time by definition excludes possibility of inquiry into the rest of the problems the world has, therefore we should not obsess on 911, something like that..

OK, I read your entire post (and sunny's which you likened to mine) though I didn't follow all the links (too many and I think it made sense on its own). First I am persuaded your discourse, unlike Jeff's, is honest. That, even if I disagreed with it, I can deal with. Second you offer solutions which is good. I have my own solutions that have been evolving in my brain, but I can't comment on yours because I don't know enough about them. But that's healthy and I think it's a natural outcome of just learning about 911 and other such deeds.

To offer solutions you first have to realize a problem exists and come to understand it, that's why understanding 911 is important. The more understanding and then solutions offered by more people, the better. Eventually they start taking a powerful collective aspect to them, collective solutions begin to emerge and leaders from the grass roots emerge to advance them. That is why 911 truth is important and this process I mention is already happening. That's why much is being invested in diluting the effect of that (disinfo, and I propose Jeff is part of that). I do want to offer a different twist to part of what you said. Here is a partial quote from you:.

"The problem I have with this is that it limits both the problems facing us to the aftermath of 9/11 and the only possible solutions to the problems we face to the "proving" of 9/11 theories. Assuming 9/11 was a false flag op, would it have been the first, only or most significant? Just off the top of my head, I'd say that the USS Maine, the Tonkin Gulf prevarication and Pearl Harbor were at least of the same significance, if not more so... "

Notice how you appear to make many incorrect assumptions that later hinder your own analysis. Nobody said focusing on 911 now by definition limits the possible solutions later. 911 is just a step in the process of awakening.

The opposite is true. Grasping the basic truth of 911, that it was an inside job, is all that matters. Once done, that automatically raises many other big questions that never would have been raised before, like the ones you appear to fear will get forgotten.

No, to realize 911 was an inside job is to realize you've been lied to all your life, that the world is different than you thought it was.

It is what then leads people to ask who did all the lying, why, and what were all those other lies?

Such a big-picture awakening by the masses needs a catalyst, and few things, would have the power to set it off as 911. This is, because 911 was so dramatic and personal to most people.

Additionally, 911 was so sloppily done and contains so much evidence easily accessible to most people, that it offers a unique doorway into the workings of a dark brotherhood.

3/17/2007 06:20:00 PM  
Blogger MR Vox said...

Wow! Thanks for another wonderful post.


I think there's truth in what you say. I have no reason to say why, accept that I think its beautiful in some strange way, and I think beauty is our brain's way of alerting us that there is something we should pay attention to...The same way good flavor alerts us the food in one's mouth is healthy.

3/18/2007 01:03:00 AM  
Blogger just_another_dick said...

So Shrub, who the fuck sends a St. Patrick's Day card?

That's stretching the old holiday cheer sugartit just a bit much, don't you think.

My paternal grandparents were Irish & my maternal grandparents were Polish & I, honestly, don't give a shit.

Never been to either country, so my allegience to either is utterly non-existent.

How the fuck you'd tie this :

"This is a contagious bacterial disease of animals and humans due to infection with Leptospira interrogans species. Rats, mice, field moles, hedgehogs, squirrels, gerbils, hamsters, rabbits, dogs, domestic livestock, other mammals, amphibians, and reptiles are among the animals that are considered reservoir hosts.

Leptospires are shed in the urine of reservoir animals, which often remain asymptomatic and carry the organism in their renal tubules for years.

The usual mode of transmission occurs through abraded skin or mucous membranes, and is often related to direct contact with urine or tissues of infected animals. Inhalation of infectious droplet aerosols and ingestion of urine-contaminated food or water are also effective modes of transmissions.

Clinical symptoms may be severe, mild or absent, and may cause a wide variety of symptoms including fever, myalgia, headache, chills, icterus and conjunctival suffusion. The disease can usually be treated successfully with antibiotics.

Efforts to prevent this zoonotic disease in a laboratory animal facility should focus on effective control of the infection in laboratory-animal populations and use of protective clothing and gloves by personnel."

...in with leprochauns is beyond me.

A bit of a sociopathic 'Sure n' Begorra'don't you think.

3/18/2007 02:03:00 AM  
Blogger ericswan said...

IC..Darpa..ya think? Started reading an e-book yesterday on the head of Nazi Gestapo..Heinrich Mueller. Got the shock of my life when the author mentions that Germans didn't do as much surveillance on their citizens as Americans do (circa 1950) because Germans didn't have T.V.'s to listen in on their quarry. WTF????

Sniffer..just to make it all perfectly clear..There is no doubt that 911 in it's entirety including anthrax etc. is known by virtually "everyone" as an inside job. The issue here is "what to do about it" and convincing ourselves that we are be oppressed by a totally corrupt world wide hegemony is simply asking citizens to move knowledge from one hemisphere to the other is not on. Forget about it. Move the pieces forward. Get your game on. I know I'm right when I say that we have to take the technology you're looking at and move your "neighbours" over to a cashless society. Put your front lawn into production. Break the mold. If we could get citizens to put in 10 per cent of their time into a neighbourhood ecological envelope, and not prozelitize about the bad news, then we move forward. My vision of a neighbourhood is 250 households or 250 apartment dwellings or trailers or several rural properties that are connected in real time and solving real problems.

This is one way of removing the power from TPTB. No cash, no mass media hyperbole, and no divide and conquer. You don't even have to like your neighbours or go to the same church. Just solving the basic needs no matter what adversity you meet. Many hands make light work.

3/18/2007 01:06:00 PM  
Blogger luxefaire said...

I have tried other mode of comm, no good man, so this is last try.....b

the assassination of robert f kennedy
william turner
jonn christian
foreword by oliver stone (wtf?)

send mailing addy to luxefaire@gmail.com if you want me to send this book

i saw a book with same or similar subject matter on your wishlist?

good luc

b

www.luxefaire.com


ok to reproduce in entirety not-for-profit with credits to author

PERFECT
by Bill Gallagher, Hachita NM
www.luxefaire.com
022807

Electronic teleconference intercepted by ES:8ladiesman of the New American Army (NAA), San Saba Texas, March 17 2009.


Audio Minutes of Top Secret teleconference, annotated verbatim by AS:hate-notwant-not23, NAA Administrative Underground. Visuals unobtainable.



From:
Directed Energy Application Laboratory
German Division
Holloman AFB NM
TC8976-88322-0

To:
Sandia Corporation
Laboratory 17, Hatchet Mountain Facility,
Playas NM
TC0023-88040-0


Opening:

Ladies, Gentlemen, Distinguished Guests, it is my pleasure to announce that as of this day the full Electronic Weapons Grid has become a reality, and is in perfect operating order.

(Applause)

We have been assured by our allies in Rome that the recent efforts and expenditures undertaken by our kind are successful beyond expectations: the entire United States and its territories are not only a subject population, but unknowing as well. Captive and happy, shall we say?

(Light Applause)

Allow me to elucidate, for those of you who may be lacking certain details concerning our conquest.

The group in Rome has been slowly releasing technology since the early 1800's, as the New Empires military-industrial complex, controlled through its financing by our group in London, has become ever more advanced, and thereby capable of handling the technological revelations, and more importantly, handling their development. Or, should I say, redevelopment?

(laughter, applause)

As most of you know, the source of this technology is extremely ancient. The collecting and hoarding of these old tools of ours does not really concern us right now, except to say that the end result of this macro electronic deployment will be the same as it was in the world from whence it derives, which is to say, the world before this one, the so-called fourth world.

The human being was created to be augmented electrically and electronically. The darkness which has ensued since the freedom fanatics of the fourth world destroyed the last empire will be no more, and light will once again reign. I assure you, the greatest of efforts have been made to locate and physically disable anyone capable of even discerning this system of control.

This electronic augmentation that I speak of possesses a variety of forms, though in the main it is total and utter control of all targeted bio-organisms via their electrically reactive digestive track. For the scientists, we say: control of the electro-gastric system. For the laymen, that simply means control of the gut.

The vast majority of the targeted population will never even know they are being manipulated. They will miss a regular bowel movement ever so often, but will never be able to understand that this is now electronically controlled to maximize the use of their ingested food...their ignorance and inability to perceive the weapon is just a measure of our already well established and lengthy program of mind control, OTE, Other Than Electronic.

Keeping that last in mind, let me say that this newest weaponry technology of ours has been deployed as entertainment and communications, when in fact it is a control of the stomach, its functions, and the entire digestive process of the bowel.

In short: the elimination of waste can be shut off entirely via these electronics of ours, or the system can be made to operate with perfection. If elimination is stopped in any organism, death quickly follows, though this death can be protracted through many stages. When combined with quantum energy technologies such as are seen via the plasma sprayings used to condition our soil for electrically augmented crops, a full array of tortures evolve: why, it is even possible to literally cook an animals wastes out of its body, via its skin pores. Can you imagine anything worse than that?

Hmmmmm?

(laughter, applause)

If a targeted organism attempts to avoid this torture by ceasing to eat, we can induce uncontrollable hunger, or any other state for that matter, by broadcasting tight and powerful signals via the myriad antennae, said signals having been pre-recorded from individuals undergoing those various states. We can put a subject population to sleep at any time, we can keep them awake for days on end, or we can deprive them of only certain sleep states, which manifest as a very broad spectrum of predictable behaviors.

As already mentioned, the workers who behave as we wish them to, who serve us without question, will never notice anything different, and will in fact be healthier for our efforts. That is simple maintenance and of course, prudent.

For people who are outside of the loop as it were, the dissenters and tax evaders, we will wreak havoc with them, doing the necessary experiments to fine tune this technology, before eventually killing them, in as horrible a manner as possible. We are the masters, we have always been the masters, and once again, we will take our place guiding this race, our tools, into infinity.

Once our slave population becomes entrained to the electronic control of their digestive process it will take only the slightest bit of adjustment within the system to create a true plethora of predictable behaviors. They will never know they are being coerced, and one must then argue, is it coercion at all? It is their place to serve us, and serve us they shall.

The cell phone technology, by which this system of control has been hidden, has become virtually free to all users, though it is just the beginning of the electronic apparatus with which the human organisms will be implanted, for finer control, and tracking of each and every individual.

The identification powders have been deployed via atmospheric spraying years ago, and each humans electronic signature is now entered in the military database...there is no where on earth any person can go without being detected immediately, and identified.

The satellites are the third leg of this control triad: Antennae, Quantum Energy Harvesting Via Chemical Spraying, and as stated, Satellites in such profusion they are like a necklace around the entire earth.

Soon the cell phone technology, which are already being worn in-ear, will be microscopic and surgically implanted, like so many of the other chips that have been surreptitiously implanted over the last decade by our medical industry.

Yes the total weapon is now fully deployed, and operational. The subject population is 100% unaware of its actuality, and the code for this project is more than apt, it is, like the project itself, PERFECT...

(Loud Applause)


FIN

3/18/2007 01:41:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

Mark & #1 Sniffer,

Very nice responses; it's a strange feling to be "arguing" with people with whom I agree on the most fundamental questions facing us. The one area where we still part company, however, is in my perception of an underlying necessity you guys believe in following the 9/11 banner to the New Green World (which is what the better NGO's are all about, despite Kevin at Cryptogon's warnings about eco-fascism, which is actually where the movement had its roots anyway.) Positive proof that good can come from evil and vice-versa.

Now, if it's true that the New Distrust (as opposed to the millenia-old distrust of the elite, as seen in the massive public support for the Sherman Act and the general mood of anti-trust, anti-imperialism that swept the country a century ago, with Mark Twain and the muckrakers fueling the fires of resistance to the robber barons & the then-current war of imperialism/occupation in the Philippines) has been greatly enhanced by doubt about the 9/11 story, then I'm in complete agreement. Those poll numbers (the Zogby everyone quotes with its solid 1/3rd believing as we do that it was an inside job and only 16% buying into all of the official story's mythical elements) are encouraging, but those other polls that Mark cites are something else again, I think.

Long before 9/11, vast and clear majorities of the so-called sheeple in the US wanted environmental protections, universal health care, and a more equitable distribution of wealth & opportunity both in the US and abroad--I don't know that 9/11 had anything to do with the ancient knowledge that money is power and power corrupts.

Sniffer makes a point of connecting that moment of disillusioning illumination that all sensible persons experience sooner or later, that everything you know is wrong realization (if you've never heard The Firesign Theatre explain it, you've got to listen to that Side 1 mp3) and maybe it was a trigger for a lot of people, particularly the young, but I had my own, similar awakening more than 30 years ago, and I am anything but unique. Whatever its shortcomings, the counter-culture movement of the '60s opened that door for many millions of us. And, moreover, there have always been doorways past the illusion.

I'm not trying to say that there aren't new things to learn or that investigating 9/11 might not reveal some of them, but the one area you guys have not addressed in this discussion is what venue could handle a revelation the size of 9/11? Our institutions are so corroded that there is no justice in them that is not for sale. Look at what happened when GM was convicted of conspiracy in The Great Trolley Heist--one dollar fines and "go on about your business, you fine upstanding Americans, you"!!

You guys are smart enough to realize that reforming the goverment would necessitate a massive process of disclosure, truth & reconciliation, revoking corporate personhood and the national security state, dismantling the monopolistic control of resources & information, etc., etc. Such a de-nazification process, tantamount to repudiating the American Myth itself, cannot be accomplished within the current framework of "laws" and "legal recourse." What gestures would Mr. Scalia employ to express the Court's opinion on that question?

I'm all for whatever might come out of the revelations of 9/11. I'm just not going to sit back and wait for it to happen, though, either. The most universal truth is that we are the same, that the divisions imposed upon us from "above" are there for the purpose of keeping us divided, that we could and will, despite the protestations of so-called "opponents of the New World Order" like the notorious rat Danial Pouzzner, return to Eden.

We don't need no stinkin' oil!! We can clean the planet up right now--we have the will and the means to usher in an age of responsible abundance...but we're just not allowed to. Same as ever, for now. But as ericswan says, it's time to start getting off their grid now, regardless of what spectacle they throw at us.

3/18/2007 01:42:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

ericswan,

Your scary TV story reminds me of something my grandmother (whom you would have loved) always said: "It just stands to reason that they made television like they did the telephone; if you can see them through it, they can see you."

She grew up in Saskatchewan over a hundred years ago and formed her worldview there, girded by her 4th Grade education, no less. Among her observations & admonitions:

* WWII wasn't about saving Jews or protecting freedom; it was about making money

* the moon landings were only as real as anything else they "sold on that box"


Not that I listened to everything she told me, a very long list that included "the Beatles are a commie plot; don't play with your poor dead grandfather's Kinghts of Columbus sword--who knows what deviltry is in it?; cut your hair and stop smoking that Indian tobacco; don't learn German or you'll get killed just like your uncle did" (long story there, the one MI link in the family)...the list goes on and on, as I spent a great deal of time with her, mostly to help her with her massive gardens, a habit she formed when she was homesteading in Montana during WWI.

I've forgotten a lot of what she taught me--at ten I could identify most of the plants & trees where I grew up, make lye soap, and grow, cook & preserve enough food to feed a colony--but some of it occasionally seeps through all the intervening years & things I've "learned." I wonder if there are still any old folks up in Saskatchewan who remember the old ways? My grandma was an encyclopedia of sorts; like any other, she was full of deep wisdom and complete nonsense. Sometimes it's hard to separate the two.


Shrub,

I think someone's fucking with you, but not necessarily in a dangerous way. If they really felt threatened by our innocuous banter or two-bit projects for humanity, we'd be dead before we knew we had their attention, just like Eugene Mallowe was, the day after he released his famous Open Letter. If Edwin Black's fame doesn't protect him from a similar fate, maybe his reluctance to connect all the dots he knows about will.

In any case, my good Shrub, we're not any of those important people; as much as I admire your wit and agree with your view of things, we are no different from the billions of other little fish who know they live in a glass bowl. And another thing, Polskis like you have their own strange stories--they don't to go borrowing them from the Irish, whose 800 years of slavery have entitled them to a certain largesse. (The symmetry between Poland & Ireland, two of the most oppressed Euro cultures whose fortunes seem to be linked, even now as they both are experiencing "boom-times," of a sort, would make for an interesting study.)

A few more random Polski weirdness links, if you're interested: miriku's live journal and okana's blog.

3/18/2007 03:31:00 PM  
Blogger tapdance127 said...

Jeff is asking us to think outside the box, so here goes ny efforts:

Months ago when I first pondered Jeff's disbelief of CD, I thought that perhaps this was a lack of scientific education. I am not an engineer, but when I studied for my degrees, I took the core science classes giving me a base knowledge of the scientific arguments regarding the 9/11 events. Also, I grew up on a farm and this was a great education in how things work: both mechanical and living systems.

The exact mechanisms of CD is not known, but the collapsing into the three footprints, the timing and symmetry of the falls, and all the dust are obvious signs that the buildings fell due to controlled demolition.

As has been stated here by many others, this can be "rigorously intuited." We know this. I believe Jeff knows this. He is a brilliant, well-read writer able to make astute connections about so many topics and he is so obtuse on this subject?

Jeff says that he doesn't really want to write about CD again, but he does. Despite his previous denials, I believe that he has been threatened by TBTB and told that he can write all the "whoo-whoo" blogs he wants, as long as he states doubt in this area. Notice how difficult it is for him and how he can not give us reasons for his thinking and doubts. Jeff is vulnerable because he has a precious small child, a wife, and probably other family members and friends who may have been threatened.

Directly related to this thought, Shrubageddon just received a weird St. Patrick's' Day card. (see his post above.) Shrub is one of the more prolific posters on this board. More importantly, Shrub tends to integrate his personal info (what type muffin he had for lunch) with his on-topic comments. I believe that whoever sent the "Shrubageddon Tribe" this card did so in the belief that Shrub would write about it on this website. Remember that we all learned a few months ago that our cell phones now have built-in transmitters to relay room conversations back to the listening post. I guess we are all being sent a message here.

One of my siblings was a colleague of one of the murdered microbiologists. I won't give location and details here because I don't what to identify my sibling. I was told it was a cruel, brutal murder and there was never any follow-up in the local media after the initial reporting. Description sounded like a "hit" of a gentle scientist whom someone needed to be dead.

When I first realized the truth of 9/11, I simultaneously realized how hugely important it would be to keep the truth hidden. Jeff's writings now have a wide audience. Of course, if what I conjecture is true, Jeff can not admit to it. However, he can always delete this posting if it strikes a nerve.

3/18/2007 05:33:00 PM  
Blogger tapdance127 said...

Jeff is asking us to think outside the box, so here goes ny efforts:

Months ago when I first pondered Jeff's disbelief of CD, I thought that perhaps this was a lack of scientific education. I am not an engineer, but when I studied for my degrees, I took the core science classes giving me a base knowledge of the scientific arguments regarding the 9/11 events. Also, I grew up on a farm and this was a great education in how things work: both mechanical and living systems.

The exact mechanisms of CD is not known, but the collapsing into the three footprints, the timing and symmetry of the falls, and all the dust are obvious signs that the buildings fell due to controlled demolition.

As has been stated here by many others, this can be "rigorously intuited." We know this. I believe Jeff knows this. He is a brilliant, well-read writer able to make astute connections about so many topics and he is so obtuse on this subject?

Jeff says that he doesn't really want to write about CD again, but he does. Despite his previous denials, I believe that he has been threatened by TBTB and told that he can write all the "whoo-whoo" blogs he wants, as long as he states doubt in this area. Notice how difficult it is for him and how he can not give us reasons for his thinking and doubts. Jeff is vulnerable because he has a precious small child, a wife, and probably other family members and friends who may have been threatened.

Directly related to this thought, Shrubageddon just received a weird St. Patrick's' Day card. (see his post above.) Shrub is one of the more prolific posters on this board. More importantly, Shrub tends to integrate his personal info (what type muffin he had for lunch) with his on-topic comments. I believe that whoever sent the "Shrubageddon Tribe" this card did so in the belief that Shrub would write about it on this website. Remember that we all learned a few months ago that our cell phones now have built-in transmitters to relay room conversations back to the listening post. I guess we are all being sent a message here.

One of my siblings was a colleague of one of the murdered microbiologists. I won't give location and details here because I don't what to identify my sibling. I was told it was a cruel, brutal murder and there was never any follow-up in the local media after the initial reporting. Description sounded like a "hit" of a gentle scientist whom someone needed to be dead.

When I first realized the truth of 9/11, I simultaneously realized how hugely important it would be to keep the truth hidden. Jeff's writings now have a wide audience. Of course, if what I conjecture is true, Jeff can not admit to it. However, he can always delete this posting if it strikes a nerve.

3/18/2007 05:36:00 PM  
Blogger tapdance127 said...

I apologize for double posting above and the grammatical errors.

One additional comment: Note that Jeff's blog ends in a reference to "home". Could there be a double meaning here?

3/18/2007 06:12:00 PM  
Blogger Mark said...

Hi IC once more.

IC says:

"Very nice responses; it's a strange feeling to be "arguing" with people with whom I agree on the most fundamental questions facing us. The one area where we still part company, however, is in my perception of an underlying necessity you guys believe in following the 9/11 banner to the New Green World (which is what the better NGO's are all about, despite Kevin at Cryptogon's warnings about eco-fascism, which is actually where the movement had its roots anyway.) Positive proof that good can come from evil and vice-versa."

Yes, first no animosity at all, as if you didn't know that. I sort of felt like I was talking for a public discussion more than argument with you personally. (And I liked Sniffer's comments more than mine on this point actually.)

Second, no, I don't think you absorbed what Sniffer and I were communicating, that it certainly isn't required as an "underlying necessity" to talk 9-11 in the same breath as anything else. It's entirely the opposite way round: 9-11 has touched so many things, as noted above. Do I have to drag out that Griffin quote for the third time? :-)

"Monbiot [or IC], regarding the 9/11 truth movement’s conspiracy theory as a wrong-headed distraction, fails to see that the obviously false and truly distracting conspiracy theory is the official 9/11 myth, which has been used to justify imperial wars and increased militarism, thereby distracting attention from global apartheid and the ecological crisis. We focus on the 9/11 myth because, until it is exposed, getting our governments to focus wholeheartedly on the truly urgent issues of our time will be impossible."

Third, no, on "Kevin at Cryptogon's warnings about eco-fascism," I don't know where you got insinuating that with either of us or anything mentioned so far.

Fourth, "warnings about eco-fascism, which is actually where the movement had its roots anyway", no, I don't think that environmental concern is either all that modernist, European, or indebted to Nazis. The discussion there would be a book. Yes, on that particular case however. As a quick general leap to a general statement: no.

Once more, I think you are the one unfortunately conflating things together. You are the one who seems to have an "underlying necessity" to lump things together like this as "#1 Sniffer" attempted to peel away for you.

And to ericswan who said:

"...Started reading an e-book yesterday on the head of Nazi Gestapo..Heinrich Mueller. Got the shock of my life when the author mentions that Germans didn't do as much surveillance on their citizens as Americans do (circa 1950) because Germans didn't have T.V.'s to listen in on their quarry. WTF????"

He's probably--or definitely--talking about Operational Octopus, something from the late 1940s onward I think, using TV tubes to receive transmission information as well as send within a limited radius then.

I remember reading about it somewhere, probably in some Alex Constantine book somewhere... yes, here it is.

I think you would concur it does link right up with Meuller's period of discussion uncannily well, even though it fails to talk about Meuller:

"The commercialization of television, coinciding with Reagan's recruitment by the Crusade for Freedom, a CIA front, presented their intelligence world with unprecedented potential for sowing propaganda and even prying in the age of Big Brother.

George Orwell glimpsed the possibilities when he installed omniscient video surveillance technology in 1948, a [late 1940s] novel rechristened 1984 for the first edition published in the U.S. by Harcourt, Brace.

Operation Octopus, according to federal files, was in full swing by 1948, a surveillance program
that turned any television set with tubes into a broadcast transmitter. Agents of Octopus could pick up audio and visual images with the equipment as far as 25 miles away.

Hale Boggs was investigating Operation Octopus at the time of his disappearance in the midst of the Watergate probe."


Boggs additionally started to develop a habit of lambasting people like the Rockefellers who he said were combining "supercommunism and supercapitalism" as a totalitarian managerial society.

More interesting synchronity to the present: [1] Senator Boggs "disappeared" (murder by airplane accident) over Alaska with the father of Alaskan Nick Begich (later, co-author of Angels Don't Play This Haarp: Advances in Tesla Technology). [2] And who took Senator Boggs to the airport for his last flight outa here? Why, it was William Jefferson Clinton, Congressional aide, I have read.

Back to Constantine, just for those who can see where two major links joined up, the Meyer-Lansky 'Italian-Jewish' Mafia and intelligence services of the USA, built into the Nazis more and more from the beginning of the 1940s:

"In 1952, at MCA, Actors' Guild president Ronald Reagan - a screen idol recruited by MOCKINGBIRD's Crusade for Freedom to raise funds for the resettlement of Nazis in the U.S., according to Loftus - signed a secret waiver of the conflict-of-interest rule with the mob-controlled studio, in effect granting it a labor monopoly on early television programming.

In exchange, MCA made Reagan a part owner. Furthermore, historian C. Vann Woodward, writing in the New York Times, in 1987, reported that Reagan had "fed the names of suspect people in his organization to the FBI secretly and regularly enough to be assigned 'an informer's code number, T-10.'

His FBI file indicates intense collaboration with producers to 'purge' the industry of subversives."

No one ever turned a suspicious eye on Walter Cronkite, a former intelligence officer and in the immediate postwar period UPI's Moscow correspondent.

Cronkite was lured to CBS by Operation MOCKINGBIRD's Phil Graham, according to Deborah Davis."


[The Washington Post Graham family are the one's always buying up Florida papers and closing them down whenever said newspaper starts to cover state level orchestrated "Votescam" (state level orchestrated vote fraud) as the Collier brothers mentioned. At least read the reviews there, and segments of the book are all over the web as well concerning state level votescam as 'performed by election predictions' in TV media, later set to expected 'performed' totals. The Colliers argue that it started in Florida potentially by the late 1960s.]

"Another television conglomerate, Cap Cities, rose like a horror-film simian from CIA and Mafia heroin operations.

Among other organized-crime Republicans, Thomas Dewey and his neighbor Lowell Thomas threw in to launch the infamous Resorts International, the corporate front for Lansky's branch of the federally-sponsored mob family [and that goes right to the Bushes soon after...] and the corporate precursor to Cap Cities.


[book chapter: Drug Running Bush Family and their Fake War on Drugs: Police as drug pushers
author: tarpley

"But the whole truth is much uglier. We have documented in detail how the Iran-contra drug-running and gun-running operations run out of Bush's own office played their role in increasing the heroin, crack, cocain, and marijuana brought into this country.

...Documents found by Burdick in the Dade County land records office show that USA Racing, the company operated by Aronow which built the [intentionally low grade] Blue Thunder catamarans for the Customs service [so they couldn't catch the drugs being smuggled in intentionally] was not owned by Aronow, but rather by a one Jack J. Kramer in his capacity of president of Super Chief South Corporation. Jack Kramer had married a niece of Meyer Lansky. Jack Kramer's son Ben Kramer was thus the great nephew and one of the putative heirs of the top boss of the US crime syndicate, Meyer Lansky. Ben Kramer was also a notorious organized crime figure in his own right. On March 28, 1990 Jack Kramer and Ben Kramer were both found guilty of 23 and 28 counts (respectively) of federal money laundering charges.]

"Another of the investors was James Crosby, a Cap Cities executive who donated $100,000 to [Prescott Bush proxy] Nixon's 1968 presidential campaign.

This was the year that Resorts bought into Atlantic City casino interests. Police in New jersey attempted, with no success, to spike the issuance of a gambling license to the company, citing Mafia ties.

[And Mafia/CIA ties goes right into the Pelosi family as well: "Particularly because of the Pelosi family links to Italian-Jewish organized crime historically. Her father, Thomas D'Alessandro, of U.S. Military Intelligence, allied with WWII right wing Lucky Luciano's U.S. Mafia. After WWII, Pelosi's father "D'Alessandro...elected Mayor of Baltimore in 1947...when Luciano's mob had a virtual free reign in...Baltimore [and shipped in the CIA's heroin that way]. It would appear that Ms. Pelosi has forgotten that her Mafia-linked father dealt with right wing thugs on a routine basis.".]

In 1954, this same circle of investors, all Catholics [though not "representing all Catholics"], founded the broadcasting company notorious for overt propagandizing and general spookiness. The company's chief counsel was OSS veteran William Casey, who clung to his shares by concealing them in a blind trust even after he was appointed CIA director by Ronald Reagan in 1981.

"Black radio" was the phrase CIA critic David Wise coined in The Invisible Government to describe the agency's intertwining interests in the emergence of the transistor radio with the entrepreneurs who took to the airwaves....

A Hydra of private foundations sprang up to finance the propaganda push.

One of them, Operations and Policy Research, Inc. (OPR), received hundreds of thousands of dollars from the CIA through private foundations and trusts. ....

In Hollywood, the visual cortex of The Beast, the same CIA/Mafia combination that formed Cap Cities sank its claws into the film studios and labor unions.

Johnny Rosselli was pulled out of the Army during the war by a criminal investigation of Chicago mobsters in the film industry.

Rosselli, a CIA asset probably assassinated by the CIA, played sidekick to Harry Cohn, the Columbia Pictures mogul who visited Italy's Benito Mussolini in 1933, and upon his return to Hollywood remodeled his office after the dictator's.


And we all know that Alex Constantine took his pen name from Godard's Alphaville, right?

3/18/2007 07:51:00 PM  
Blogger Mark said...

L'esprit d'escalier:

It's interesting that Democrat Nick Begich had just been elected to the "oil motherlode" state of Alaska, and was recampaigning with Boggs support when both "disappeared" in a presumed airline accident. Boggs as well had started to mumble publicly about the Warren Commission as a really silly story before he "disappeared" with Begich.

"In 1970, Begich was elected to the at-large seat for the state of Alaska. He served until a mysterious plane crash on October 16, 1972. Begich was in the process of campaigning during the crash. Also aboard were Representative Hale Boggs of Louisiana, and two others. All were presumed dead after...[a] 39-day search....

During the period of the search, he was [still] [re-]elected to a second term in the United States House.

[However,]...[h]e was declared dead on December 29, 1972 at 40 years old and a special election was announced.

[Different party of] Republican state senator Don Young won the election and took Begich's seat, and has held it ever since.


[This is interesting:] Nick Begich's son, Mark Begich, is the current mayor of Anchorage, Alaska. [The other son: co-author/activist about HAARP in Alaska.]

And as an example how avoiding corrupt politics is at your peril when you discuss sustainability concerns, note just this little vignette on the oil raw material regime tied into this parapolitical murder mystery: Who replaced Begich?

Republican John Young, who just lost to the "missing presumed" dead man Begich. So John Young with the field cleared, ran once more, and got in. John Young has been there ever since. John Young is responsible for this kind of actions and rhetoric:

"According to an editorial in the Boston Globe on February 26, 2006 [8], Young sponsored a proposal to the fiscal 2006 Coast Guard authorization bill that would have banned [technological energy competition to oil by] offshore wind turbines within 1.5 nautical miles of navigation channels, a measure [actually on the contrary] opposed by the Coast Guard [that he had grandstanded to claim to be 'protecting' as a cover for his oil raw material regime handlers], and, according to the Globe, [he from Alaska!] intended to block the Cape Wind energy farm off Cape Cod, Massachusetts.

The measure, now in conference committee, has been drawn more narrowly so that it would only apply to Cape Wind, as well as stating that the Coast Guard or governor may quash the project if they find it to be unsafe or otherwise unsuitable."


What about oil as "unsafe or otherwise unsuitable?"

So this circles back to an earlier point of mine: even if we, as the IC's of the world say, paraphrasing 'concentrate on technological changeover and forget about the corrupt politics', it's the corrupt politics that you have to address in the same breath for any successful durable technological infrastructure toward sustainability.

John Young is a prime example of that.

Here's the fuller bit on the oil raw material regime and Young gatekeeping for them in Alaska:

Alaska's at-large congressman, Democrat Nick Begich, disappeared in a plane crash on October 16, 1972. He was reelected to the House that November, but was declared dead on December 29. Young, who had been the Republican candidate against Begich in November [and who lost even to the dead Begich,(as Ashcroft lost to a dead man--likely murdered in my opinion, equally, to 'even the odds' for Ashcroft in election in 2000--which still failed for him)], ran in the special election in March 1973 and won, just barely defeating Democrat Emil Notti.

[Next, John Young]...won a full term in 1974 in another relative squeaker, largely due to his role in fighting for the Trans-Alaska Pipeline System.

Oil began flowing on June 20, 1977. Since then over 15 billion barrels (2.3 km³) have been pumped, peaking at 2.1 million barrels (330,000 m³) per day in 1988. Around 16,700 tankers had been loaded at the Marine Terminal at Valdez by 2001. The terminal has berths for four tankers and cost almost US$1.4 billion to build. The first tanker to leave the terminal was the ARCO Juneau on August 1, 1977.

John Young...didn't face another serious opponent until 1990. That year, John Devens, the mayor of Valdez, nearly defeated him because of dissatisfaction with Young's role in the [non-]investigation of the Exxon Valdez spill.

Young is the 8th-longest serving House member, and the 3rd most senior Republican (ranked only by Bill Young of Florida and Ralph Regula of Ohio). Due to his long tenure in the House and that of Senator Ted Stevens, Alaska is considered to have clout in national politics far beyond its small population (it has long been one of the smallest states in population and is currently 47th, ahead of only North Dakota, Vermont, and Wyoming). He is often called "Alaska's third senator."

Young's voting record is relatively moderate by Republican standards. However, he vigorously opposes federal control of Alaska's land and resources. He is also a strong proponent of opening the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to oil drilling.

Young chaired the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee from 2001 to 2006.

He also chaired the Resources Committee from the 1995 Republican takeover of the House until 2001....

[He's still there:] He currently serves as the Republican minority's Ranking Member on the Resources Committee.


According to The New Republic, Young is "well-known for his sharp elbows and generous appetite for legislative pork."[1] His reputation for steering federal dollars to Alaska is almost as legendary as that of Stevens. For example, in the 2005 Highway Bill, Young helped secure "$941 million for 119 special projects," including a $231 million bridge in Anchorage which a rider in the bill would name for Young himself.[2]

He was listed as one of the ten worst congressmen by the popular magazine Rolling Stone, and dubbed "Mr. Pork" due to his involvement in Bridge to Nowhere incident.[3]


If curious, follow out his oil raw material regime links at the not so venerable Wiki, where you can source for such memorable quotes as:

* "Environmentalists are a self-centered bunch of waffle-stomping, Harvard-graduating, intellectual idiots" who "are not Americans, never have been Americans, never will be Americans."[9]

* "If you can't eat it, can't sleep under it, can't wear it or make something from it, it's not worth anything."[10]


Ah, though what if you can, though someone else's raw material regime keeps you from doing it because they dislike competition for the consumptive use?

In other words, if we want a "Bridge to Somewhere" instead of a John Young "Bridge to Nowhere", ignore corrupt politics at your peril. As I would argue, corrupt politics has a lot more to do with unsustainability (and its technology and materials forced use) than you could imagine.

3/18/2007 08:50:00 PM  
Blogger Silverfox said...

To be perfectly honest...

Regardless of how many items we collect, if we don't wholeheartedly serve, respect, and value “The Truth” we presumably wish to know, first and foremost; or are sincerely working to expand our awareness and understanding of what “The Truth” itself is in this process, we might as well be collecting butterflies.

In other words, it’s nothing more than the same kind of vanity that falsely claims to love the “beauty” of a thing and then proceeds to coldly and cruelly demean and debase it in the worst possible way by actually denying it’s real purpose, “pinning it down” and simply taking possession of it.

So it’s hardly any quest undertaken with any genuine regard for either what is being pursued nor even with some understanding of why it is or even should be valuable, only the selfish presumption that if it is valuable, owning or possessing it will surely make someone “better”, or “superior”, or give them some power or advantage over someone else.

That is precisely the same kind of motivation and thinking, in essence, that has driven the very people everyone is so intent in “getting the goods on” to do what they have done in the first place.

And what have they done, after all, if not gone chasing after an equally debased truth of their own that was of no more importance to them either beyond gaining the same kind of advantage they thought it would confer on them over others?

Now we may say we are looking for "The Truth" but we are only kidding ourselves if that is why and what we’re really all about here.

We're also only kidding ourselves if we're just looking for more strange and unusual items to add to our strange and unusual little collection without ever daring to question how "more" of them will somehow magically transform that collection into something “more understandable” or meaningful instead of merely more strange, unusual, and incomprehensible than it already is.

If we are indeed looking for “The Truth” it seems only prudent that we should be not only be prepared to meet it, but to be honest about the prospect that it can only happen on its terms and not ours.

Anything else, any other expectation on our part is pure ego, simply wishful thinking.

If what is so troublesome, confusing, or with no sane or reasonable outcome in sight, is to be changed for the better as a result of our encounter with “The Truth” it will only be because we ourselves will no longer be the way we were to have seen it that way and nothing more.

Now "The Truth" has a conceptual reality that far exceeds any of the small occasions when we catch a fleeting glance of some small fragment of it.

That concptual reality kneeds to be thoroughly known. The ways by which we know and identify any example of what we call "The Truth" and what makes it irrefutably so for us.

That is the criteria, the measuring stick that needs to be placed against the description of any questionable events.

3/18/2007 10:52:00 PM  
Blogger Mark said...

That Boggs quote failed to sound right when I put it up there. I was right: it was wrong.

Correction below, though it's hardly often you correct yourself and make another point in the process, this time on medical repression technology as well.

Instead of the quote coming from Boggs, it came from Larry McDonald (1935-83).

I got confused because McDonald died in the same quadrant of the planet as Boggs/Begich did, in a similar presumed plane accident, though it had a bit of a flair--since the USSR shot down the Senator's commercial plane "by accident" it is told, being known for statements like this:

L. McDonald (Congressman): “The drive of the Rockefellers and their allies is to create a one world government, combining super-capitalism and communism under the same tent, all under their control. Do I mean conspiracy? Yes I do. I am convinced there is such a plot, international in scope, generations old in planning, and incredibly evil in intent.”

Larry McDonald was elected to the Ninety-fourth Congress of the United States of America in the elections held in November 1974 as a member of the Democratic Party. McDonald served as Congressman in the sixth district of Georgia, which lies north of Atlanta. He was re-elected four times and served from January 3, 1975, until his death, on September 1, 1983.

McDonald was very conservative, even by Southern Democratic standards. His anti-communist fervor was probably second only to Sen. Joseph McCarthy. He took the communist threat seriously and considered it an international conspiracy. .... He also advocated the use of a non-approved [though it works] drug Laetrile to treat patients in advanced stages of cancer. [He was less 'heroic' when it came to his social politics however...]

On September 1, 1983, Larry McDonald died when Korean Air Flight KAL-007 was shot down by Soviet fighters after the plane entered Soviet airspace. Korean Air Lines Flight 007, also known as KAL 007 or KE007, was a Korean Air Lines civilian airliner shot down by Soviet jet interceptors on September 1, 1983 just west of Sakhalin island. KAL 007 carried 269 passengers and crew, including U.S. congressman Lawrence McDonald. There were no survivors.

After McDonald's death, a special election was held to fill his seat in Congress. McDonald's widow, Kathy, was a candidate, but she lost to George "Buddy" Darden. Much of the congressional district McDonald represented would later be represented by [Bohemian Grover] Newt Gingrich.

more juicy stuff here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Flight_007

3/18/2007 11:28:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

Hey Mark,

I really didn’t intend to conflate your views with some of my asides—the blood & soil/Wandervögel roots of the ecology movement, for example—nor to portray you and Mr. Sniffer as obsessed by the necessity of proving 9/11 in order to achieve sustainability & social justice. You’ve written quite eloquently on those subjects in the past without any reference to the big eye-riveting spectacle whatsoever.

I guess part of my concern here is that you guys feel that Jeff is obligated to embrace CD, based on both his responsibility as a beacon of truth in a sea of deceptions and as an intelligent person who, as such, can’t very well 'ignore the weight of the evidence.' I'm sorry, but that’s just a little too dogmatic for me. If I have some fervently held belief, well, I might try to explain it here or in person, but I’m not out to convince or convert anyone to my way of thinking. If the message resonates, great; if not, oh well.

There is something else you didn’t really fully address that is even a bit more troublesome, which you sort of responded to in this passage:

What about oil as "unsafe or otherwise unsuitable?"

So this circles back to an earlier point of mine: even if we, as the IC's of the world say, paraphrasing 'concentrate on technological changeover and forget about the corrupt politics', it's the corrupt politics that you have to address in the same breath for any successful durable technological infrastructure toward sustainability.

Here’s the thing about that statement. As Black describes the historical shifts to different energy sources, the keepers of the status quo have always resorted to a false chicken & egg dilemma: How can we build hydrogen fuel cell cars (or electric, or anything other than petroleum) if there’s no infrastructure to support it? Black answers this stalling tactic of an excuse for continuing down the road to ruin by reminding us that before gasoline cars were mass produced, there was also no infrastructure (gas stations, etc) in place, but they soon grew as the manufacture of the gas-eaters increased.

My response to “that’s impossible” is to go ahead and quietly build working models, communities, what have you, and then say, “Lookee here—it does work!” That’s why I keep mentioning Wangari Maathai’s Green Belters. They were faced with the choice of either going through the political/legal process to get what they wanted or to simply start doing it, not exactly surreptitiously, but in a low-profile, small-scale enough manner so as not to trigger a brutal reaction from the Kenyan PTB. There were a few showdowns along the way, but basically her reforestation/economic/political empowerment scheme grew up under the official radar until it could no longer be ignored or wiped out because it was already working. 40 million trees, economic stability through environmental stability, etc., etc.

Of course, there will have to be a political reckoning at some point, but how can we hope to win if we apply for justice from position of weakness, with all the decks so uniformly stacked in their favor? Disclosure, truth & reconciliation, ending corporate personhood & the national security state, dismantling the entrenched monopolies & the federal reserve—how can we even contemplate achieving these things through a system so thoroughly in the hands of the owners? Even if 9/11 were “re-opened,” you know they’d just find a different set of fall guys, maybe even the Chimp and the neo con artists (after all, they aren’t the real power behind the throne), and we’d still end up with a whitewash and none of the things on my laundry list would have come about.

If, on the other hand, we could foster a small network of alternative models that functioned so well that the public began to ask, “Hey, why can’t we have those things/live like that?” then the shell game of petropolitics would become irrelevant. Then we could talk about cleaning house and convening a new constitutional congress.

As far as the suppression by assassination meme goes, Black has already put his neck on the line here. Maybe he did with his IBM and the Holocaust as well, but this time he’s taken it a huge step further. In the final chapter of Internal Combustion he lays it out very clearly: We already have the technology and enough infrastructure to switch over, right now, to a hydrocarbon-free economy. If you haven’t read this yet, I can explain this in detail, if you’d like, (* a very telling passage from the book follows my commentary here) but what I’m saying here is that he’s thrown down the gauntlet in such a well-documented fashion that he can’t be refuted. The only question is whether he’ll be killed or ignored for his temerity.

I know better than to underestimate the resources or the ruthlessness of the worldkillers, but I frankly don’t see how either strategy will keep the lid on this. Martial law and WWV might do the trick in the US, but what about the rest of the world?

* From Internal Combustion:

Decentralized Energy Independence & the End of Greenhouse Gases

More than a car, the Honda FCX comes with its own home-based hydrogen energy station that obsoletes gas stations and gasoline - and even cuts the tether to utility bills. About the size of a common home air-conditioning unit, the Honda Home Energy Station will be driven by natural gas, not electricity, and will create enough hydrogen daily to fill one or more FCX vehicles and heat and power an individual home. Honda's Home Energy Station is no pipe dream. Plug Power, an upstate-New York fuel-cell maker with more than six hundred installations worldwide, supplied Honda home power stations for several years before March 16, 2006, when they jointly announced the smallest model yet and most ambitious phase of their partnership - FCX program. Honda's Home Energy Station will soon be configured to run on solar, either from panels or perhaps from nanosolar materials embedded in its sleek case or other nearby home surfaces. An estimated twenty square yards of nanosolar wrapped around a pole or a building surface could independently power Honda's Home Energy Station. A Plug Power source confirmed that the company's home station can be mass produced for the price of an air conditioner, opening the way to scalable untethered energy. Honda controls the license on Ply Power's home station technology. (p. 309)

Did you catch that, Mark? All power needs for both home & auto supplied by twenty square yards of nanosolar wrapped around a pole or a building surface, for the price of an air conditioner?! He also goes into greater detail about the current capacity of wind & solar in the US--eight times the current need. I just don't see how this can be ignored--reacted to, sure, but not ignored. Once the hydrocarbon economy collapses, well, that's bound to be nasty, but countries survive depressions. Especially when alternative frameworks exist...say, what do you know about bio-regionalism?

3/19/2007 01:37:00 AM  
Blogger Sounder said...

Silverfox said;

“ If we are indeed looking for “The Truth” it seems only prudent that we should be not only be prepared to meet it, but to be honest about the prospect that it can only happen on its terms and not ours.”

Worth repeating.


There are hazards to thinking that more information will bring us to solutions for our problems. While true that information bits may save us from embarrassment as we compare our collection with fellow collectors, it is not the stuff providing the glue that holds (our picture or illusion of) reality together. The glue is found in the efficiency that our criteria for understanding connect to the ground of being.

Currently our poor connections seem to engender suppression of sub-conscious knowledge into unconsciousness. A new criterion for understanding is called for then, to enable better (opportunity for) integration of current sub-conscious elements into our conscious models.

It is through new criteria that we create a more dynamic and healthy relationship to reality. Then we point to “The Truth” with less gnarly and crooked fingers.

Ah, -- If only, I could be perfectly honest.

3/19/2007 08:11:00 AM  
Blogger Shrubageddon said...

Richard,

I hear you about St. Patty's Day. Like yourself, I am both Polish and Irish....and St. Paddy's Day was never celebrated in my household growing up. My wife likes to wear green on St. Paddy's Day...so I go along with it just to keep the peace. Also, my wife likes to make a traditional Irish meal on St. Paddy's Day....in fact, she's making it tonight, belatedly. She's making Corned Beef, Colcannon and Irish Soda Bread.

In regards to the card I received, we still have not received a response back from our inquiry of the couple we keep in contact with there. I agree with you that the Leptospire versus Leprechaun juxtaposition is bizarre.

Tapdance, I actually thought about what you said when I posted about the card here. I thought that if it is someone, or something fucking with me, that it may have intended for me to post it...but I wanted you all to know about it...in case I suddenly never post anymore, and you got to wondering.

I tried to reproduce the milk cup incident, and I could get it to perform the feat it did that day. That one's really bizarre. Objects flying across the room have happened to me before in my life. During a period of great inner turmoil and most likely laced marijuana use, I awoke out of a restless sleep to witness some wicker baskets my mother had hanging on the wall literally fly off the wall and land half way across the room at the side of the bed in which I was sleeping. It freaked me out...and still does to this day.

IC, maybe it's not a spook and if it is not the people we know there, then who or what is it? Surely, it falls in the category of High Weirdness...and this is just the place to talk of such. If it is a case worker, I sure hope it's Valerie Plame...cuz she is smokin hot...and I would like to get to know here better, carnally, or otherwise.

3/19/2007 01:17:00 PM  
Blogger just_another_dick said...

The speed at which the world changes is really quite astounding.

At 11:31 Yahoo had this headline:

"Chaos dims Bush vision for Iraq democracy"

& at 12:06 Yahoo had this headline:

"Bush:Crackdown showing signs of progress"


At this rate I doubt that it would be overly optimistic to expect the complete cessation of hostilities by 4 P.M. today, followed by the complete withdrawal of American Troops by 6 P.M.

One other thing, I find that folk who use trite, meaningless, way effing overused phrases like "think outside the box" need to be locked in a box for a very very very long time.

Good day.

3/19/2007 01:24:00 PM  
Blogger just_another_dick said...

"I tried to reproduce the milk cup incident, and I could get it to perform the feat it did that day. That one's really bizarre. Objects flying across the room have happened to me before in my life. During a period of great inner turmoil and most likely laced marijuana use, I awoke out of a restless sleep to witness some wicker baskets my mother had hanging on the wall literally fly off the wall and land half way across the room at the side of the bed in which I was sleeping. It freaked me out...and still does to this day."

Shrub, sounds like you have a veritable ocean of untapped psychic hoodoo just roaring along under that cynically sceptical exterior of yours.
Might be worth exploring.

Oh yeah, there was not the teensiest bit of sarcasm in the above sentences, so please, don't take it that way.

By the way, in regards to your card, any old girlfriends with a sociopathic streak in your past?
Or any current flirtations?

Unrequited love does have a bit of a tendency to turn toxic at times.

3/19/2007 01:34:00 PM  
Blogger Dr. Bombay said...

Hey, just for the record,
"Paddy" is considered an insult
by the Irish.

RE: Shrub,
Perhaps you have been
paid a "secret" warrentless
visit by the feds. In your last
few posts you have talked about
"what actions to take". This might
have sent up a red flag somewhere.
A couple of weeks ago I came home
to find my back door unlocked.
Its a dead bolt and certainly
didn't unlock itself. Nothing
is missing as far as I can tell,
so if it wasn't a B&E what was it?

3/19/2007 01:57:00 PM  
Blogger ericswan said...

Hey Lux Sup?

I have a little tiny anecdote to share. I spent a number of years working graveyard and come coffee break, I head out for a Tim Horton's and a continuous litany of cigarettes. One night a couple of months back, there were an inordinate number of RCMP in the parking lot. Usually, I only see them driving by at least 4 per break every single break I take. I feel "protected" and since it is 3 am in the morning, somewhat mollified that my tax dollars are at work.

But this one night in particular, there was what I would call an ëxecutive" looking RCMP vehicle with a couple of guys in the front seat and a number of other squad cars possibly three more, parked a couple of hundred feet from me and close to Tim's. I had my coffee and cig thing going and was "sort" of watching the police vehicles jockeying around as they came and went. The executive looking vehicle had positioned itself so as to be the closer to me of all of them and I pondered what was up as they say. This be the strange part. A tiny little green laser light suddenly appeared on the lit end of the cigarette and lasted for a second or two. End of story.

3/19/2007 02:25:00 PM  
Blogger MistahCharley said...

The posting begins w. a quote from one of my favorite Bob Dylan songs - I only recently discovered that this is yet another of Bob's songs covered by Jimi Hendrix - you can hear his version on the Hendrix at the BBC cd. Very nice.

3/19/2007 02:33:00 PM  
Blogger ericswan said...

Mark.. I said circa 1950 because we didn't have tv til the 50's up in Canada but in fact Mueller specifies that this tech was in 1948. The e-book is called Nazis in America. If it wasn't for the fact that his personal diary is in the form of an e-book, I would have to call it a "page-turner" ;).

I tried to post to your blog on your cover of green polling and global warming but for tecnical reasons at my end it didn't happen. What I would have said is that I won't participate in polls under any circumstances. I never see stats on that when I see a poll. They never mention the holistic reader who won't be stuffed into their little boxes.

Lux...send me the book at

sakmaquil@gmail.com


Mark..interesting to read about a paperclipped former Gestapo chief as he tutors Trueman about the traitors in his midst. Forrestal is even covered up in his personal journals with the suggestion that whatever Forrestal was going on about would have to include anyone in the asylum that Forrestal talked to. I wonder if his denials of the Holocaust constitute hate literature since it was written for private consumption being his private journal and written well before the laws came into force. His trips to Colorado in the sweat soaked Washington D.C. summers in the late 40's and 50's leave the door open for visits to Montana but Mueller is far to discreet to say anything too specious. I'm only a third through the paper, but the voice of an insider from the paperclip alumni confirms much of what we call conspiracy on the 21st. His prognostications for the future are stellar.

3/19/2007 02:48:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

Shrub,

I'm not saying it wasn't a spook playing with you--I'm still wondering who put that damned hawk in my house right when I was lost in that Hawkwindish reverie--all I'm saying is that if it was some hitherto unknown alphabet agency, you should count your blessings that all they were doing is playing with you. Better to lose your mind for a while than the machine that houses it...


Mark,

Where are ya? That cut from Black I so painstakingly pasted is the real McCoy, if I might get my Irish on for a moment, since it demonstrates beyond mere conjecture that we were right all along when we maintained that we don't need no stinkin' oil. How far that cat gets out of the bag is another question, I suppose, but there's more from Black on this, much more.

3/19/2007 04:10:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

Oh, yeah, then there's this making its way through the RI boards. More proof-embedded pudding.


Richard,

Did you hear the Leader speak today? That's why history changed before your eyes (he borrowed LBJ's "Slow but Steady" speech, almost verbatim--good thing there's no besieged embassy from which to escape by helicopter, sadly abandoning our national dream of stopping the inexerable fall of the domino...thanks to the treachery of those who stabbed us in the back by not supporting this most just and holy war, of course.)

3/19/2007 04:27:00 PM  
Blogger Shrubageddon said...

IC,

Maybe it's more than our friends there, or spooks. Maybe there's more to the equation than you and I will ever know because our visual cortex isn't sufficient enough to process the imagery...only occasional and seemingly aberrational fragments.

By the way, I saw Internal Combustion in the bookstore over the Christmas Holidays...and seriously considered purchasing it. I read it for 20 minutes whilst my wife, children and her extended family members milled about. It was engrossing....and I thought of you when I read it. I have ordered it from the public library.....it has arrived...my wife's going to pick it up tomorrow....I can't wait.

Does Valeri Plame have a Swimsuit Calendar? If not, she should. If all spies looked like her, I would be a staunch supporter of the intelligence services. If we have to have shackles...they should at least be aesthetically pleasing.

3/19/2007 04:37:00 PM  
Blogger Shrubageddon said...

Yeah, that Air Compressed Engine, specifically the one that eliminates the majority of the friction, is here and now. Imagine combining that with the remainder of the of the vehicle being made of 100% recyclable carbohydrates and roadways made from recyclable materials? We need to eliminate air travel, though, or alter it, somehow. Those Big Birds massively pollute...just look at the God Damned Contrails that last for freakin ever...like today, where I reside.

I don't see "them" giving up without a fight. Perhaps "they" would rather go down in flames than relinquish "their" grip. We can't let that idea stop us...but it is a possibility...if all else fails...and all else just might fail for "them."

3/19/2007 04:53:00 PM  
Blogger tapdance127 said...

Hey "just_another_dick", I agree with you 100% that the phrase "think outside the box" is trite, meaningless, and way effing overused. It's almost as bad, but not quite, as using the word "very". (Yes, I know you know.)

My "box phase" was alluding to the title of the post - supplied by our esteemed blogger, Mr. Wells, not me.
I thought all this was obvious, but I guess not.

How long have you been living in your own personal box of smug hostility?

Good Day.

3/20/2007 12:42:00 AM  
Blogger tapdance127 said...

Hey "just_another_dick", I agree with you 100% that the phrase "think outside the box" is trite, meaningless, and way effing overused. It's almost as bad, but not quite, as using the word "very". (Yes, I know you know.)

My "box phase" was alluding to the title of the post - supplied by our esteemed blogger, Mr. Wells, not me.
I thought all this was obvious, but I guess not.

How long have you been living in your own personal box of smug hostility?

Good Day.

3/20/2007 12:45:00 AM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

Right you are Shrub, on many counts. On Black's book, bear in mind that it's not exactly airport thriller material--not that I'm suggesting that's your genre of choice, far from it--although, despite Black's insistence upon documentation & detail, and also despite the horrible history of monopoly & conspiracy that he recounts, the book does build momentum and a real sense of excitement about the future. Because we don't have to wait for some new miracle tech to free us from the oily oligarchs--it's here, right now. At least the energy side of the equation, the importance of which cannot be exaggerated. Energy is the biggest industry on the planet, the reason for the wars we wage, the excuse for our loutish behavior among our neighbors.

Still, as large as that part of the puzzle is, the story of the End of Oil is only half-told with the advent of clean renewables; there remains the other half of our petroleum dependence, the Second Woe of the Peakers who told us that even if we could rush alternative energy sources online, we'd still face the "impossible" task of finding substitutes for all the product applications into which the octopus of oil has snuck its tentacles. Ask them about chemurgy and they think you mean alchemy; nevermind that the first plastics were not petroleum based, nevermind that Henry Ford's plastic/hemp car, which was developed in 1941 by workers who weren't even chemists, was much stronger than steel, far lighter, and eco-friendly in its manufacture.

Now, that doesn't even begin to address the fact that many thousands of chemical patents for innumerable applications were developed by the Nazis who eventually had to do without oil altogether (once their American Nazi friends were finally forced to stop supplying them, that is.) It's at this point that the story of the suppressed science of chemurgy really veers into RI territory. After the war, our Nazis stole the German Nazis and their myriad patents, the latter of which were promised to be open for public use and full disclosure. Somehow, that never happened. The Ford formula? We're told "they didn't keep records," so it would "impossible" to duplicate, since the hemplastic car was mysteriously, accidentally (take your pick) destroyed by the very same guy at Ford who first began work on the project (the guy from the "Styling Department"). That's stylin' alright.

I know they think we're pretty damned stupid, but who would believe such a story? The deeper and far scarier question is how it could be possible that science could be so completely controlled by the evil goons of industry that no one would have even attempted to replicate the wonder materials of the 1940s. I mean, okay, I understand that scientists have families to feed, and that you go where the money is, but is George Washington Carver not even mentioned in chemistry classes anymore? What happened to the famed "curiosity & sense of wonder" that guides scientific breakthrough? Do apples just not fall on heads anymore, or is there something more sinister at work?

The answer, of course, is all of the above. The same playas who killed the first electric car in 1914 and who then went on to kill the marvelous science of Carver are still in charge of things. Great American institutions like DuPont, Dow, Standard Oil in all its incarnations, etc., etc. The biggest murderer's row of good ol' boys the world has ever seen. Just in case anyone has possibly not read Dave West's Low, Dishonest Decade, despite the 500th occasion of my linking it here, here's another chance to see all the mug shots. (Granted, they were taken in the '30s, but some things never change...until Mr. Black comes out with Part II, which I've already been bugging him about.)

So yeah, go ahead and read the book, Shrub--it's a great ride through a dismal landscape. But then you have to bug the poor guy to finish what he started by telling the other half of the story. If enough of us read the first one and beg for more, and God willing he lives to tell the rest of the tale, maybe he'll have found that mysteriously missing formula, too.

3/20/2007 12:47:00 AM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

Newsflash!!

Shrub, I think I just found that alternative to conventional airplanes!

3/20/2007 01:00:00 AM  
Blogger nunnatsunega said...

IC, have you read any of the work by William Lyne? If you haven't, try "Occult Science Dictatorship: The Official State Science, Religion, and How to Get Excommunicated." Personally, I kind of take a middle path between the Lash-ian "Archontic" perspective (mixed with a healthy dose of Vallee's informed musings) and the Black Ops Perspective (BOP). For a modern mythic presentation of ideas similar in points to Lash's Gnosticism reconsidered, try Nigel Kerner's "The Song of the Greys."

Peace, Nunnatsunega

3/20/2007 04:32:00 AM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

Nunnatsunega,

Thanks. They're on the list. I'm kind of constrained by circumcstance to reading what my library has to offer, but they're pretty good about acquiring books that I request. They even went out and bought Jeff's monastic cliff-hanger, although they still haven't gotten back to me on Eugene Tsui's EVOLUTIONARY ARCHITECTURE: NATURE AS A BASIS FOR DESIGN ($80.00), which is supposed to be very good, or his first one, THE URGENCY OF CHANGE (2002, available for a piffling $60.00).

I know that these look like "books on architecture," but they get into much more fundamental issues, such as how we live and how we think...Anyway, thanks again!

3/20/2007 10:51:00 AM  
Blogger Silverfox said...

Well Friend Sounder...

You don't seem to have too much difficulty when it comes to being "painfully" honest...hmmm?

And surely you've noticed that there's no shortage of folks around here who have no trouble at all being "brutally" honest, at least when it when comes to others...hmmm? LOL

Well... being "perfectly" honest is nothing more than the proper balance between those two and is more than attainable just as soon as you decide to stop being so hard on yourself for being a "human" being and put that in its proper perspective.

To simply look upon your own faults in the light of those of others and their's in the light of your own and be as fair about it as you quite "humanly" can...because you can, you know, quite easily.

Now you do, in fact, "know better" than a good many of those others and that is much to your credit and no less importantly, your good fortune.

You should be very glad and genuinely happy about that and see it that way. No particular reason to stand up and take a bow and no particular reason to feel any need to apologise for it either.

A liitle smile is all that is required between you and the universe that has bestowed it upon you and you no less upon it!

3/20/2007 01:12:00 PM  
Blogger Sounder said...

Silverfox, all right I will look to see how it is that I am being hard on myself for being human. Nope, I do not see it. I like being human, although I’d also like my human matching with my Being. Hmmm.. Now what do I do?

Fox, you make me laugh, -and think, and as I like both these things, thanks. I am curious as to how this situation may develop, and trust that this cryptic stage does not last too long.

3/20/2007 06:21:00 PM  
Blogger Mark said...

IC said:

"Hey Mark,

...

I guess part of my concern here is that you guys feel that Jeff is obligated to embrace CD, based on both his responsibility as a beacon of truth in a sea of deceptions and as an intelligent person who, as such, can’t very well 'ignore the weight of the evidence.' I'm sorry, but that’s just a little too dogmatic for me. If I have some fervently held belief, well, I might try to explain it here or in person, but I’m not out to convince or convert anyone to my way of thinking. If the message resonates, great; if not, oh well."


It seems to me, and many others who have posted, that if Jeff could come up with a coherent argument, fine. However, he can't. Jeff doesn't have a leg to stand on regarding how he intentionally ignores and distances himself from the armloads of evidence concerning the fact of THREE well planned and previously rigged up controlled demolitions in New York City on 9-11-01--to coincide with the (only) TWO plane crashes.

Jeff continues the ad hominen attacks in lieu of discussing it rationally in his latest blog post, which resembles "Rigorous Inquisition" instead of Rigorous Intuition, since more than 2/3 of what he 'writes' is nothing except a slew of ad hominem emptiness.

It's not a displeasure of Jeff "not agreeing" with the controlled demolition. As others have said, he doesn't ever have an argument against it, so it can't be called disagreement. He simply ignores evidence, and calls that an argument. Thus the discourse that he uses to dissuade against it is entirely DISHONEST and he knows it.

So, as to your characterization of Jeff as "his responsibility as a beacon of truth in a sea of deceptions", I don't think Jeff can seriously be described as that, given the level of cherrypicking that Jeff has exhibited in this post.

Back to IC quote:

"There is something else you didn’t really fully address that is even a bit more troublesome, which you sort of responded to in this passage:


...

Here’s the thing about that statement. As Black describes the historical shifts to different energy sources, the keepers of the status quo have always resorted to a false chicken & egg dilemma: How can we build hydrogen fuel cell cars (or electric, or anything other than petroleum) if there’s no infrastructure to support it?

Black answers this stalling tactic of an excuse for continuing down the road to ruin by reminding us that before gasoline cars were mass produced, there was also no infrastructure (gas stations, etc) in place, but they soon grew as the manufacture of the gas-eaters increased.

My response to “that’s impossible” is to go ahead and quietly build working models, communities, what have you, and then say, “Lookee here—it does work!”


...

Well, since that is exactly what Dr. Peter Lindeman had described himself doing with others, yes, I take your point.

Though I'm back to making the point with the example of oil regime representative John Young of Alaska swooping down on Massachusetts to kill off wind power there--or anything else in the future including the precious Honda technology.

The wind power attack by Young was politics. All great energy autonomy ideas of the past 50 years--the 4,000 or so sealed patents we cannot ever know about right now because they are sitting sealed up without patent numbers in the Patent Office according to Tom Valone--shows that high politics of energy has a higher batting average than your recommended "introduction on the sly."

If Waangari had invented a way to turn tree sap into gasoline, she would probably have been murdered in other words.


Back to IC:

"As far as the suppression by assassination meme goes, Black has already put his neck on the line here. Maybe he did with his IBM and the Holocaust as well, but this time he’s taken it a huge step further. In the final chapter of Internal Combustion he lays it out very clearly: We already have the technology and enough infrastructure to switch over, right now, to a hydrocarbon-free economy.

...

* From Internal Combustion:

Decentralized Energy Independence & the End of Greenhouse Gases

More than a car, the Honda FCX comes with its own home-based hydrogen energy station that obsoletes gas stations and gasoline - and even cuts the tether to utility bills. About the size of a common home air-conditioning unit, the Honda Home Energy Station will be driven by natural gas, not electricity, and will create enough hydrogen daily to fill one or more FCX vehicles and heat and power an individual home. Honda's Home Energy Station is no pipe dream."


And neither has been the '4,000 other ones' that ex-Patent register officer Tom Valone says have been ignored through political corruption. Not to mention all that it takes is to simply "make an offer they can't refuse" if it was already issued a patent and then sit on it like many oil corporations are buying up different energy patents right now.

Back to IC:

"Did you catch that, Mark? All power needs for both home & auto supplied by twenty square yards of nanosolar wrapped around a pole or a building surface, for the price of an air conditioner?! He also goes into greater detail about the current capacity of wind & solar in the US--eight times the current need. I just don't see how this can be ignored--reacted to, sure, but not ignored. Once the hydrocarbon economy collapses, well, that's bound to be nasty, but countries survive depressions...

Yes, that's great. Though I'm thinking off all the other "yes, that's great" ideas that have been squashed equally. I imagine that a lot of this will be done and tolerated on the local home level.

It's always the bit about scaling it when the politics of energy seem to come out of the woodwork, if I could draw on the case of 'hydrogenated water energy' car inventor Stanley Meyer, who once he started making deals for mass car changeovers at his local automotive dealer, he was quickly thrown in jail (on false charges), and then ended up dead in jail.

Their other option with Stanley didn't work: he admits in the "Phenomenon Files" British documentary "It runs on Water" from 1995, that he was offered '1 billion dollars from certain arab shiekdoms', though he refused to sell it to them.

Thus even with this version of energy autonomy and removal of energy clientelism you describe, it is still endangered by the two corrupt methods of destruction of past 'changeovers' ([1] "Dear John," national security letters issued to seal patents and keep them from being issued, and confiscation of use; since the Honda thing passed that bar, [2] buy up of already issued patents by the raw material regime that is challenged, and/or assassination of the people working on it--1 and 2 not mutually exclusive).

I still don't think we are talking about mutually exclusive actions: all I ever said was that techheads aren't going to change the world without having some method of politically defending themselves if they ever scale their solutions or popularize them in the name of their local ecological self-interest against the "John Young's" of the world reaching down from oily Alaska to stop another state's local energy autonomy or different technological base.

Another example that has quickly dropped off the collective map is that you could have been equally enthused about the Californian politics that made--and destroyed--the electric car there. In fact, the position of the electric car in California is being taken by the Honda FCX.

The history of electric cars in California is another example I think that pans out that it is the attempt to scale workable solutions when all hell breaks loose and you see the corrupt basis of most 'modern' states.

A great deal of politics killed a truly workable local energy autonomy solution in the electric car as well. Solar technologies are bought up by gas companies, and left undeveloped.

In the case of the electric car, they refuse to sell them (only leased) until they could get the corrupt court's to reverse the California technology mandates, and then they happily crushed their own electric cars to keep them from being popularized.

read up:
[[Anon. “Suit Tossed on Revised Emissions Rules,” Los Angeles Times (August 13, 2003, Wednesday, Home Edition, Page 2; John O’Dell, “GM, California in Talks to Settle Emission Suits; Negotiations come after the state drops a rule requiring electric cars powered by batteries,” Los Angeles Times (May 31, 2003; Saturday, Home Edition, Page 2) ; Mark Martin, “State likely to steer away from electric cars; Electric-car effort running out of juice; State air board may back hybrids instead,” The San Francisco Chronicle (March 23, 2003; Sunday, Final Edition, Bay Area, A14); Anon. “Federal Judge Delays Enforcement of Electric-Car Mandate,” The Associated Press State & Local Wire (June 17, 2002)]]

larger story:
[[Has the Non-Renewable Fuel Industry Hit the Dimmer Switch on Solar?” Written by Ellen Housman Wednesday, 13 September 2006, http://towardfreedom.com/home/content/view/886/ ; ]] More efficient gas engines have been available for decades, though they are left undeveloped. [[Byron Wine]] Inventors are threatened or murdered, lest they change the other institutionalized frameworks around scale, raw materials choice, and externalities—and thus change someone else’s effortless profit strategies. [[anon. “Water Fuel Experimenters Ken Rasmussen & Team in California Threatened with Death by Hired Goons,” http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2006/06/340528.shtml;. “A History Of 52 'New Energy' Technology Invention Suppressions That Demote Consumer Choice,” 20:22 Jun-19; anon. “Forget Peak or Veg Oil, go Water Engine: plans, video, politics of zero point excited H20”, May-24 http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2006/05/339892.shtml ]]

I don't know who owns Honda, though with its Japanese origin, I do know that the Japanese don't have a raw material regime of oil interfering with their technological energy investment strategies, and that is why they spend more on cold fusion and many other things that have been banned by the Oil Inquisition in the United States.

Actually, from the Honda FSX website, note how this technology is being fitted into the previous California situation, just like the electric car. The American automotive corporations despised moving away from the oil addition where they get most of their money. The Japanese corporation may be different, you say though, note that it continues to be linked to the oil regime for the origin of its hydrogen:

The Honda FCX

Have you ever had to roll up your windows to keep from choking on the exhaust from an older car in front of you? Did you wish that car was a Zero-Emission Vehicle (ZEV) like the extraordinary Honda FCX?

The only emission that the FCX produces is water vapor.

That's because a revolutionary technology allows the FCX to power its motor with electricity generated from a hydrogen-oxygen chemical reaction. [notice how they avoid saying "it still runs on natural gas from oil regime, effectively"]

With a maximum output of 80 horsepower and 201 Lb.-ft. of torque, the FCX has responsive acceleration that is ideal for city driving. Plus, the FCX is practical for a wide range of typical daily driving trips in today's world.

In July 2002, Honda's FCX was certified by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and the California Air Resources Board (CARB), [then battling with the American oil addicted automotive manufacturers that didn't want to do a changeover or be inventive, which has been the history of most American 'big technology' for a century, see Misa's book on steel for that for instance] making it the first and only fuel cell car in history to be approved for commercial use.

CARB and the EPA have also certified the FCX as a Zero-Emission Vehicle (ZEV), Tier-2 Bin 1.

In December 2002, the city of Los Angeles began leasing the first of five Honda FCXs, which are now used in normal, everyday activities by city officials. And as the official pace car of the L.A. Marathon for five consecutive years, the FCX has proudly served in some not-so-everyday activities as well.

While the 2005 Honda FCX is our second-generation fuel cell vehicle (FCV), it is the first to be powered by a Honda designed and manufactured fuel cell stack. And it has been certified by both the United States Environmental Protection Agency (USEPA) and the California Air Resources Board (CARB) for commercial use.

The 2005 FCX achieves a nearly 20-percent improvement in its EPA fuel economy rating and a 33-percent gain in peak power (107 hp vs. 80 hp) compared to the 2004 FCX.

With an EPA city/highway rating of 62/51 mpkg (57mpkg combined) and an EPA-rated driving range of 190 miles, the hydrogen-powered FCX delivers nearly a 20-percent improvement in fuel efficiency and range versus the 2004 model with an EPA rating of 51/46 mpkg (48 mpkg combined) and a range of 160 miles. In terms of energy efficiency, one mile per kilogram (mpkg) of hydrogen is almost equivalent to one mile per gallon (mpg) of gasoline. The hydrogen-powered Honda FCX has been certified by CARB as a Zero-Emission Vehicle (ZEV) and by the EPA as a Tier-2 Bin 1, the lowest possible national emission rating.

The FCX is a technology of the future that's becoming more and more prevalent today. Keep an eye out for FCX sightings-because you definitely won't smell them coming.


http://corporate.honda.com/environment/fuel_cells.aspx?id=fuel_cells_fcx

The fuel it says is "Compressed hydrogen gas."--I don't know the physics of energy on that, though hydrogen just sets up another massive polluting industry, doesn't it, if it comes from natural gas? What about Stanley Meyer's high frequency split water for getting the hydrogen?

And as for the supposed "home fuel system" of the Honda FSC, how "home fuel" is "natural gas" severing us from anything? "Honda Home Energy Station will be driven by natural gas,..."

It seems that this technology is only a crony compromise coming out of the high politics of California auto pollution meets international automakers, round two, where they maintain the whole infrastructure of polluting oil, natural gas, and liquid gas. No wonder it's not dead yet?

By all means move forward on multiple alternatives. Though keep in mind that there have been many "best new things" for decades now. And many of them are in the graveyards due to murder.

The electric car technology was killed by high oil company politics, and the story of this Honda technology you mention is still nascent enough to have an unhappy ending by #1 or #2 as mentioned above, despite it being some form of compromise technology since it 'gives a cut' to the oil Mafia.

I'm not saying that it has to be, though I don't think the art of institutionalizing alternative locally attuned material consumptive choices is served best by pretending that it has survived without simultaneously dealing with political corruption involved in 'past' global hegemonic raw material regimes, coal and oil mostly. Your African trees example is not really sequitur to oil changeover, because these were not in competition for the same consumptive position. You're real comparison to oil changeover is the graveyard of many other attempts of the past 100 years, instead of a grassroots African tree project.

It's interesting that a Japanese automotive manufacturer had to introduce it, though the fact that it maintains connections to the oil regime instead of severing them--is I think the story that Black is not really being honest with.

Since even the Peugeot was hounded out of the US markets by political attacks by U.S. automotive manufacturers and false disinfo peddled by 60 Minutes of all places, simply because enough powerful raw material regime actors didn't like competition with another oil car, don't put anything past them attempting to hold onto their consumptive administration of your life by demoting your consumer choices on this more basic issue of energy switchover.

The death of the electric car was an example of that. The death of Stanley Meyer was an example of that.

Honda's FCX seems more am oil infrastructure compromise than anything else.

I don't know why Edwin Black hawks hydrogen. That's probabaly why he's still alive. :-) If he ever started talking about low frequency split water for fuel, hundreds of miles per OUNCE, instead of something that innately and sympathetically benefits the same corporations connected to oil infrastructures, then ....

Instead of Edwin Black's infomercial for the Honda FCX (there's a Photoshop for someone out there..), personally what intrigues me is the link I put up about the European compressed air car, instead of the "old oil in new bottles" of the hydrogen car of Honda.

The Air Car"
08:52
Beyond Tomorrow 2005
www.theaircar.com

For instance, if the "home unit" of the air car could recompress air all the time into the axillary tank, with solar panels on the car itself for example, that would be something truly autonomous from the clientelism of other's crony decisions poking into your life.

3/20/2007 08:30:00 PM  
Blogger Mark said...

Hey, at least I bother to correct my known mistakes:

"If he ever started talking about low frequency split water for fuel"

should be

If he ever started talking about low watt, high frequency split water for fuel..."

see:

Equinox - It Runs on Water (1995)
Equinox - 50 min - Apr 17, 2006

On Sunday, 17 December 1995, viewers in U.K. saw an hour-long T V. program which, at long last, puts across the clear message that "free energy" is on the way.

In the opening stages Arthur C. Clarke explained how there were four stages in the way scientists react to the development of anything of a revolutionary nature. "Free energy" was now working its way through these four stages of reaction, which were:

a: "It's nonsense," b: "It is not important," c: "I always said it was a good idea," and d: "I thought of it first."

The scene moved to Rome, Georgia where Jim Griggs of Hydrodynamics, Inc. demonstrated the assembly and operation of a "hydrosonic water pump" which operated over-unity by producing hot water or steam with energy in excess of the electrical energy input to the pump motor. "Over-unity" was confirmed by satisfied customers, including the Albany Fire Station, where engineers from the "local university" and the "local power company" had been called in to verify the over-100% efficiency.


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2464139837181538044

Water can have many other consumptive position uses.

Video of people 'rediscovering' over and over high frequency effects of zero point, in different technological applications.

"No energy created" only applies to thermodynamics. And this ain't thermodynamics.

3/20/2007 10:01:00 PM  
Blogger Shrubageddon said...

Mark makes some very valid points here, IC. I thought the same thing when I read about the Honda FSX.....hydrogen via Natural Gas is not the way home...if there is a way home.

3/21/2007 01:21:00 PM  
Blogger Emanuel said...

What does it mean that these boxes seem to keep going on forever? Do the people at the top actually think outside *all* the boxes, or are they trapped inside one too? I think it's helpful to see these boxes not as neatly nested one inside the other, as if you can progress up and out into wider and wider boxes until you are ultimately free (or at least inside the biggest box). Rather, I think the boxes overlap. Some are bigger than others, sure, but none even approach freedom. What we have here are only competing worldly interests trying to expand their own power by confining others to smaller boxes and keeping their own boxes secret (and shrouding them in mystery to confuse). But boxes are boxes, after all. Players get tempted to "rise in the ranks" because they think those above them have bigger boxes and are thus closer to the ultimate truth. (The CIA fosters this assumption... "And Ye Shall Know the Truth. And the Truth Shall Set You Free.") It's all a lie. The way out is OUT, not UP. You have to dump all the boxes, all the samskaras, all the vrittis.

Catherine Austin Fitts once told me that the Octopus folks consider the rest of us "mushrooms" because we grow in the dark. Some of them have compassion for us. All of them feel superior to us. What they don't realize is that while they are dazzling us with shadow puppets, they too are staring at the wall in Plato's cave.

Emanuel

3/21/2007 02:44:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

Mark & Shrub,

I really hope you guys come back and see this (I'll try to get a message to each of you) because you both missed something there. First off, you are absolutely right, Mark, about the sad history of suppressed tech and the raw materials regime--it's a game so old that Black was able to trace it back past the Hostmen of Newcastle (a really solid monopoly) all the way to the pharoahs in Egypt. I know all about the 4,000 sealed patents, the Pogue carburetors, Eugene Mallove, etc., etc.

What's different here is that Black has very cautiously introduced not just an excellent history of these suppressions, not just the easy availability of wind & solar for all US domestic power needs, but even the very thing that gets the offers that can't be refused. I think he was so worried about receiving such an offer himself that he couched his revelation in such a way that even you guys missed it. Let's look at that crucial passage again:
Internal Combustion:

Decentralized Energy Independence & the End of Greenhouse Gases

More than a car, the Honda FCX comes with its own home-based hydrogen energy station that obsoletes gas stations and gasoline - and even cuts the tether to utility bills. About the size of a common home air-conditioning unit, the Honda Home Energy Station will be driven by natural gas, not electricity, and will create enough hydrogen daily to fill one or more FCX vehicles and heat and power an individual home. Honda's Home Energy Station is no pipe dream. Plug Power, an upstate-New York fuel-cell maker with more than six hundred installations worldwide, supplied Honda home power stations for several years before March 16, 2006, when they jointly announced the smallest model yet and most ambitious phase of their partnership - FCX program.

(Okay, you're both right, at this point they're just talking about a program that runs off natural gas--this is how they were able to get into the starting gate. Now watch what happens):

Honda's Home Energy Station will soon be configured to run on solar, either from panels or perhaps from nanosolar materials embedded in its sleek case or other nearby home surfaces.

(Did you catch that? When they reconfigure it to run on solar, they're taking the natural gas out of the equation. Completely. I have read this chapter many times to make sure; this is the secret Black stuck his neck out for. Now read the conclusion again):

An estimated twenty square yards of nanosolar wrapped around a pole or a building surface could independently power Honda's Home Energy Station. A Plug Power source confirmed that the company's home station can be mass produced for the price of an air conditioner, opening the way to scalable untethered energy. Honda controls the license on Ply Power's home station technology. (p. 309)

I realize you guys are probably wondering why he had to phrase this so carefully, or why Honda's website is so circumspect about the ultimate goal of their work, but you already know the answer to that: it's gotten a great many brave souls killed. Now, if I can spot what Black has revealed, you can bet the Watchers have as well, but it's too late. Even if it's hidden behind a natural gas facade, it's out there. Here's the beauty of Black's method--are they going to kill him now, when he's in the limelight? Will they force him to make a retraction?

Either one of those actions will bring the spotlight on the cleverly hidden truth. Now expand the lens a bit. Do you guys think we're the only ones talking about this stuff? Do you have any idea how popular the memory of the trolley car is, how vile the conspirators who Roger Rabbited it seem in the public eye? And what about the Who Killed the Electric Car? meme? That thing is growing, not fading away.

When Eisenhower appointed Charles Wilson as secretary of defense, one of his most important responsibilities was to oversee the massive expansion of the interstate highway system, a project which made sure that any mass-transit infrastructure would be very difficult to build in the future. At Wilson's confirmation hearing, he was asked whether he had any conflict of interest, given his 40,000 shares of GM stock and his 11 years as president of that company. (1941-1952...he was involved in the collaboration with the Nazis, as we'll see)

Now, when Wilson fired back his famous response ("I cannot conceive of one because for years I thought what was good for our country was good for General Motors, and vice versa. The difference did not exist. Our company is too big."), this may have resonated at the time with that part of the public that was not hopping mad about the burning of their beloved trollies (yes, they actually burned them, gleefully, in public, and ripped out the tracks as soon as possible), but that is no longer the case.

We all know who killed Roger Rabbit and the electric car. We all know that men in black, working for our government, will come and kill you if you have some knowledge which threatens them or their clients. While this fear might please those who hope it paralyzes us, it also takes away their credibility, their deniability and their plausibility. I think that Black is walking a wire, but he's safe, for now, as long as he keeps moving. Which means tossing more truth to the starving.

Once the gates are open, the many different alternatives should be able to sneak through. That compressed air thing is impressive, although the French engineer seems to have "borrowed" a lesser-known Uruguayan's design, but no matter. there are a dozen more I know about and with any luck this knowledge will soon be widespread. Thanks be to God (and Edwin Black!)

3/22/2007 12:32:00 AM  
Blogger Mark said...

Thanks for pointing out my oversight there (when I recommended to book to you in the first place, LOL).

IC said:

"Okay, you're both right, at this point they're just talking about a program that runs off natural gas--this is how they were able to get into the starting gate. Now watch what happens): Honda's Home Energy Station will soon be configured to run on solar, either from panels or perhaps from nanosolar materials embedded in its sleek case or other nearby home surfaces. (Did you catch that? When they reconfigure it to run on solar, they're taking the natural gas out of the equation."

What about the car side?

It's still an internal combustion hydrogen engine there, right?

Or is it a hydrogen fuel cell?

(where:

hydrogen ---> runs electric car; and solar ---> electric ---> hydrogen;

and sometimes now straight solar ---> (no electric middle period) into hydrogen.)

Yes, that would be impressive.

How is the Honda Fthing translating home solar into an internal combustion engine for hydrogen?

I guess the Honda Fthing car has to be a fuel cell? If not, it's still a false solution.

(STILL HOWEVER looking for the better "Schauberger Motor Werks" inductionism instead of combustionism, I guess, well described here by Callum Coats.)

And on some stuff I read about hyper-efficient solar for you (or anyone) on the 'home front' so to speak: seems we can (or could) get rid of the polluting silicon industry with the polluting oil industry in one go:

To put some probity here for the basis of conversation, though with some bracketed caveats, from Penn State and other areas on how efficient this solar to hydrogen process is getting or the solar to electric process (to hydrogen) can get right now):

Splitting water

Chief among these renewable sources is plain old water. By passing an electric current through H2O, you can split the aqueous molecule neatly into its constituent elements. Hydrogen gas rises from the negative cathode, and oxygen gas collects at the positive anode. The process is called electrolysis, and it's been around since Jules Verne's time.

[Though electrolysis is so 'old hat,' it's much easier to set up a 'zero point low amp high frequency' hydrogen inducer water splitter, and the energy from that could be solar as well.]

[Low efficient] Electrolysis [or high efficient low amp high frequency vibration out of the void for energy to split water] produces a very pure form of hydrogen and it's simple enough to be widely adapted.

Some futurists envision an electrolysis box in every garage, producing hydrogen from tap water.

The catch is that electrolysis requires electricity. Lots of it. [the non catch is that a lot of electricity is not required in zero point issues, because the energy is not exclusively thermodynamic in origin, though simply being inputed into 'old looking' technology] And if that electricity is being produced in the conventional [crony political] fashion—from fossil fuels—then again we're just running in place in terms of producing clean energy.

We do, of course, have a renewable source for all the electricity we could possibly want: It mounts the sky every morning.

Yet while there has been considerable progress in solar technology over the last twenty years, researchers still haven't figured out how to harness the sun's power cost-efficiently.


[Not true:

Cost of Solar Power Equal to Coal Now

The development at a South African University of a process to manufacture panels made with
a much better material (CIGS) that generates electricity from sunlight at a lower cost than the
silicone photo voltaic panels
is what has been hoped for for decades. Solar power is no longer too expensive compared to coal plant generation.

"The most promising PV material identified to date is Copper-Indium-Gallium-Diselenide (CIGS)." 1

"Less than one [freaking] micron of CIGS absorbs more than 99% of available
incident solar energy, compared to 350 microns of silicon
to do the
same job." 1


[350x more energy absorbent/electrical creative than all the gibberish later described below in terms of silicon]

"International experts have admitted that nothing else comes close to the effectiveness of the South African invention." 2

"...[and] the cost of the South African technology is a fraction of the less effective silicone solar panels." 2

"A typical middle-class suburban family needs only about 30 square
metres (about the size of a living room) of solar panels to supply all
of its electricity needs." 1

The German company IFE started production a year ago, and other
companies are negotiating to produce [and hopefully not kill off] the panels.


...

Please make your leaders and electric companies aware of this new
photo voltaic panel....


Back to Penn State in the heart of the coal belt working still with first generation silicon:

"It's easy to see how improving solar cells is a critical step towards an affordable hydrogen economy. What we need," says Tom Mallouk, "is good cheap materials that do what a solar cell already does pretty well."

[Been there done that. Earth to Penn State (literally).]

Mallouk is Dupont professor of materials chemistry and physics, and director of Penn State's Center for Nanoscale Science. As he explains it, today's best solar cells are reasonably efficient, converting sunlight to electricity at a rate of about 25 percent. But those cells are made of single-crystal silicon, the same stuff that goes into computer chips. It's a good photovoltaic material, but it's expensive to grow.

[no longer, see above]

Seeking an alternative, Mallouk [reinvents the wheel...]

...

[Perhaps another reinvention of the wheel, though definitely less toxic than the gallium/selenide efficient stuff above]...

A third avenue that Mallouk and his students have long been pursuing bypasses electricity altogether, creating hydrogen and oxygen directly from water using only sunlight and a photocatalyst.

Call it artificial photosynthesis: You find a compound such as ruthenium trisbipyridine—"Ru-bipy" to chemists—that is energized by sunlight.

You suspend it in an aqueous solution, along with a semiconducting material that is doped, or treated, with a catalyst. When sunlight hits, the electrons given off by the Ru-bipy are taken up by the semiconductor and—spurred by the catalyst—they join with hydrogen ions already present in the water to form hydrogen gas.

Meanwhile, a second catalyst pulls electrons from adjacent water molecules, generating oxygen molecules and hydrogen ions. The hydrogen ions float off to further the cycle.

...

The power of green

Hydrogen is also produced by natural photosynthesis. Biologists know that certain species of green algae and photosynthetic bacteria can make hydrogen using sunlight.

[etc., etc.]

...

....there are still other ways to tap the energy contained in biomass. Wood chips and agricultural waste can be converted via the same gasification techniques used to extract hydrogen from natural gas and coal....

...

Think global, act local?

"Not all hydrogen will be produced in one way," Logan told the audience gathered at University Park last fall for Hydrogen Day. "It will depend on where you live—how much sun, wind, and biomass are around." [and of course it won't necessarily be hydrogen as in the energy position everywhere.]

...

Mallouk chaired a Department of Energy panel last spring that was charged with outlining the technological obstacles to a hydrogen economy. Though he agrees in principal with Logan's assessment, he cautions, "To make hydrogen efficiently on a large scale, to avoid runaway global warming, we will ultimately need solar. Nuclear [oh sure, out of the climate change frying pan into the radioactive fire....], biomass, wind*, hydroelectric—they don't have enough capacity to make a dent in global energy needs. With solar, there's an unlimited supply."


*(Shows what little this specialist knows. He wrong on the stats from Stanford on wind power:

"WIND: ONLY 5% OF KNOWN WIND SITES required to DOUBLE global energy capacity above current usage, and without pollution. Wind power could generate enough electricity to support the world's energy needs several times over, according to map of global wind speeds--first of its kind. The map, compiled by researchers at Stanford University, shows wind speeds at more than 8,000 sites around the world. They found that at least 13% of those sites experience winds fast enough to power current wind turbines. If turbines were set up in all these regions, they would generate 72 terawatts. That's more than five times world's current energy needs...if only potentially doubled energy use is projected, then that means ... it takes ONLY 5.2% OF THOSE SITES being used to double world energy capacities. That's only about 400 wind farms and you DOUBLE global energy capacity."

It's clearly doable. We (planetarily speaking) simply have to avoid being done in.

3/22/2007 01:50:00 AM  
Blogger Mark said...

Something rather inventive to pass along and around about oil power in the U.S. and the world.

Though its from 1973, still a good primer for the first family of oil: Joel Andreas did a 50 page comic book book on the Rockefellers, called "The Incredible Rocky" you can read that by going here:
http://www.indybay.org/uploads/2007/02/26/theincrediblerocky_joelandreas1973.pdf
[around 24 MB download, cover in color, rest in black and white renditions.]

Hardly as epically beautiful as Sue Coe's work, though epic indeed.

3/22/2007 02:12:00 AM  
Blogger Mark said...

another vid of how lying it is to still say "hydrogen is so faaaaar away...", "no stations to refill with hydrogen, blah blah, blah blah..." --ALL OF THAT is disinformation considering things like this around:

Water Power
2 min 39 sec - Sep 2, 2006

Inventor (with patents) Denny Klein "in negotiations with one U.S. automaker and the U.S. Government....members of Congress recently invited to present his invention to them" in a press conference.

Here is a Fox 26 News report on a guy who created the ability to power vehicles or just about anything by converting H2O into HHO. The prototype vehicle shown can travel 100 miles on 4 OUNCES of water.


Last I heard, he's still alive....

3/22/2007 02:33:00 AM  
Blogger Shrubageddon said...

It's interesting that when we talk about sustainability, the conversation quickly focuses on the automobile. However, one of the major culprits of environmental degradation is power plant production, i.e. coal fired power plants.

How do you stop this, IC, considering what Mark posted above about Mallouk who seems to be myopic in regards to Solar (only focusing on Silicon based solutions)?

Here's a good article on Coal Fired Power Plants.

Power Plants, Your Health and the Environment

Despite our efforts to combat air pollution over the past thirty years, serious air quality problems remain throughout the nation. Air quality has remained poor and even deteriorated in many parts of the country. The Environmental Protection Agency estimates that nearly half our entire population -110 million Americans - breathe and live in areas with unhealthy air. From the aggravation of respiratory problems such as asthma and emphysema to premature death, air pollution is taking its toll on America's health.

Air pollution is also destroying our environment, causing acid rain, ozone damage to trees and crops, mercury contamination, and global warming. Power plants are the number one industrial source of the air pollutants causing these problems. Tackling power plant emissions, especially those from older, more polluting coal-burning plants, is imperative, if we ever want to clear the air.



Coal-Burning Power Plants are the Single Largest Industrial Source of Air Pollution

In terms of volume and variety of contaminants emitted, no other single industry comes close to matching the negative impact from electric power plants. They are the single largest industrial source of some of our worst air pollutants, including sulfur dioxide, nitrogen dioxides, carbon dioxide and mercury. Among power plants, the dirty old coal-fired facilities produce the most pollution.

Power Plants Cause Massive Health and Environmental Damage

Premature Death: Sulfur dioxide is the primary component of fine particulate matter pollution in the eastern half of the country. These fine particles can be inhaled more deeply into the lungs than larger particles, and are linked with respiratory disease and premature death. Particulate pollution from power plants cuts short the lives of an estimated 30,000 Americans each year.

Asthma: Nitrogen Oxides are the major ingredients in ozone, or "smog," pollution, which is most commonly known for causing smog warnings. During 1999, the health standard for smog was exceeded more than 7,694 times in 43 states and the District of Columbia. Smog and fine particle pollution have a particularly devastating impact on our nation's 14.9 million asthma sufferers; one out of every three asthma victims being a child. In 1997, in the eastern United States alone, ozone/smog triggered over 6 million asthma attacks and sent almost 160,000 people to the emergency room.

Mercury contamination: Americans are being warned that eating the fish from our rivers, lakes and oceans can be harmful to our health. Mercury contamination is responsible for 60 percent of state fish consumption advisories. Over forty states advised their citizens to reduce their consumption of fish from contaminated waterways. Infants and children are the most at risk from mercury contamination. It can cause serious neurological and developmental damage, including subtle losses of sensory or cognitive ability, delays in developmental milestones such as walking and talking, and birth defects.

Acid Rain: Sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxide emissions from power plants form acids in the atmosphere that fall to earth as rain, fog, snow or dry particles. This acid precipitation (known as "acid rain") is often carried hundreds of miles by the wind. Acid rain damages forests and causes lakes and streams to become acidic, killing the fish. Acid rain also damages buildings, historical monuments and even cars.

Forest and Crop Damage: Nitrogen oxides from power plants cause other harmful environmental impacts such as forest and crop damage from ozone, nitrogen over fertilization of estuaries, loss of fish and other aquatic species from acidification of streams and lakes, and reduced visibility because of regional haze.

Global Warming: Carbon dioxide, one of the primary "greenhouse" gases that cause global warming, threatens dramatic climatic change that could effect both the environment and public health. Power plants are the largest source of carbon dioxide in the U.S.

Clean Air Act Loophole Lets Oldest, Dirtiest Power Plants Off the Hook

In part because of their special grandfathered status, power plants have become the biggest single cause of our unhealthy air. The death, disease, and environmental destruction caused by power plant pollution continues to mount as the emissions of nitrogen oxide and sulfur dioxide have increased and the emissions of mercury and carbon dioxide have gone unabated.

Since 1970, the Clean Air Act has exempted the oldest, dirtiest coal-burning power plants from complying with modern emissions standards. As a result, these so called "grandfathered" power plants are permitted to emit as much as 10 times more nitrogen oxides and sulfur dioxide as that of modern coal plants. Even worse, the entire industry is currently allowed to emit unlimited amounts of mercury and carbon dioxide. Power plants are the only unregulated source of toxic mercury air emissions.

This lucrative loophole is now allowing power companies using grandfathered facilities to gain a competitive cost advantage over their more environmentally responsible competitors. As a result, the power industry is relying on these dirty old plants more than ever. For instance, between 1992 and 1998, there was a dramatic 15.8 percent increase in the amount of electricity generated from grandfathered coal-fired power plants.

No other single source of pollution causes so many adverse health and environmental impacts as do coal-burning power plants. Improving the air we breathe and share with plants and animals must begin with cleaning up dirty power plants. Legislation in Congress has been introduced that would finally close the 30-year old loophole that lets power plants off the hook and that would set reasonable and achievable caps on the four major pollutants. Only when dirty old power plants are made to comply with modern pollution control standards can we all begin to breathe easier.


And this is just America....throw in India and China....over whom we have little control, and the outlook appears dismal. Sorry, IC, but every time I try to be optimistic, I can't help but check myself about what seems to be an insurmountable challenge.

3/22/2007 01:57:00 PM  
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