Thursday, June 21, 2007

Born Yesterday (Part Two)

I live in another world, where life and death are memorized - Bob Dylan

The UFO sightings occurred across several Ohio counties the evening of December 14, 1994, but it's come to be called the "Trumbull County incident." It's not especially special as these things go, except for the witness of multiple police departments, the chase response of multiple police units and their dispatch recordings.

I've got a visual on it! I'm east on Old [Rt.] 82 with a visual on it by the 'S' curve! I can see a large red, blue and green light. I am going east on Liberty. This thing's going so fast, there's no way I can keep up with it. When I pulled in Liberty I could see it in the distance, but I got closer and it started moving.

I'm almost to Brookfield, I just pulled off and have it under binocular observation, and there is definitely a structure there, 429. What you saw... I can see an upper structure off the main part of the lighting.

When Sergeant Toby Meloro of the Liberty Township Police Department caught up with the object, "Everything shut off in the vehicle":

I didn't understand what was going on. My car completely stopped. That's when the light hit the vehicle. I stood outside. I was a little bit dumbfounded; I didn't know what exactly it was. I had to shield my eyes. All I could see was white light; it seemed to be more intense in the centre of it. It was huge. I've never, never seen anything that could compare to this. And the thing that was very strange was there was no sound." After hovering above Meloro and his patrol car for 30 seconds it moved off, and "as soon as it started moving off my car started back up; the radio kicked in.

It moved into Brookfield Township, where Lieutenant James Baker climbed the highest point, an old radar tower, to better see the source of the the flap on his police radio. He saw three objects in a triangular pattern, "with the centre light being raised above the other two. Oddly enough they were changing colours simultaneously, from red, yellow, blue and green; all lights would change at the same time." Baker told dispatch "I got 'em right here, I'm looking at 'em.... They're sitting stationary, I got three of 'em." Earlier, another officer had reported that he couldn't see anything except a white light that looked like Jupiter or Sirius, and joked "You might try getting a little more rest during the day." Baker radioed, "If they are those planets those guys were talking about, then they're planets with Christmas lights on." And added, "This is weird - oh my God, I hope that's a plane."

Assessing Baker's sighting, Astronomer James McGaha said "It's exactly what you would expect for a bright star or planet low on the horizon." Meloro's intense bright light was "very likely a fireball." That his car shut off and restarted "was just a coincidence and had nothing to do with this whatsoever."

McGaha's rationalizations, and those of everyone whose guiding principle is it can't be, therefore it isn't, are not particularly unreasonable when considered on their own. But that's to distort the integrity of the event, which is never on its own, and to ignore patterns of events and whatever they may imply. (The car draining of power, and suddenly restarting, is such a pattern it's become a pop culture trope.)

For years after he signed on in 1948 as scientific consultant to the US Air Force's Project Sign, which became in turn Projects Grudge and Bluebook, Astronomer J Allen Hynek employed the same method . Initially, he thought "the whole subject seems utterly ridiculous," and debunked cases by coming up with a "'commonsense explanation for each new [case]," as he writes in The Hynek UFO report. "I stress the word 'each,' for there was no attempt to look for patterns; each report was regarded as though it were the only UFO report in the world":

This made it easier to find some individual explanation, even though it was sometimes far-fetched. It might even be stated as a theorem: "For any UFO report, when regarded by itself and without reference to similar or related reports, there can always be found a possible commonsense explanation, even though its probability may be small."

Hynek followed this course most notoriously (and perhaps under an Air Force directive) in the Michigan "swamp gas" case of 1966. (As an aside, it's instructive to consider how the press and the public's mood has changed in 40 years. Hynek was excoriated for his snap debunking, upon which he soon started backtracking, and "swamp gas" became a metaphor for the improbable commonsense whitewash. It's as difficult to imagine such an outcry today as it is an actual, official response to a UFO event.)

The late and respected British UFOlogist Gordon Creighton wrote, "We dream of a logical Universe; what if it isn't logical at all, but a vast surrealist nightmare?" It may be near that, but it's at least logical enough that we can, in the course of our day, make mundane assumptions about what we might expect. It's unlikely that our assumptions will be confounded, but then the exceptional will always be unlikely. Or rather, when exceptions cease to be unlikely, then they become our new assumptions. Absurdities are the result of trying to make the seemingly impossible fit a closed logical system. A "scientific method" that hasn't been humbled by ineffable experience will go loping off into foolishness as it tries to hold it all together.

My grandmother was born in England in 1896; the year x-rays were discovered and Gugliemlmo Marconi patented his device for "wireless telegraphy." Her own grandmother would have been a young girl when Cambridge Professor Adam Sedgwick and "gentleman-scientist" Roderick Murchison characterized the "Heroic Age" of Geology and introduced concepts of Deep Time to modern Western minds. (Though the world and everything which encompasses it may have been no more than 6,000 years old to the mind of a pre-modern Western, we should note that traditional peoples have often held profound sense of The great stretches of prehistory were first plotted and described, and often given parochial British names - Cambrian after "Cambria," what the Romans called Wales; Devonian after Devon, in southwest England. One of his summers in Wales, Sedgwick introduced his student Charles Darwin to field work.

The British Isles, we should already know, is a weird place. But it is also unusually old. Many strata which elsewhere would have been subducted beneath new rock lies exposed and readily studied; one reason why it accounts for so much of the early field work. More than 400 million years ago the Devonian Period saw the land colonized by complex creatures of soft tissue that come down to us as fossil imprints of either bone or chitin. Devon today is home to ancient mysteries and unaccountable dreads, such as the discovery of 100 sheep slaughtered last year in ritual fashion on the moor. ("All of the bodies had been arranged in a satanic star shape on the floor or laid out in a circle with their necks broken.") The mutilations, crop circles, "Devil's footprints" and anomalous beasts cannot all be accounted for by Necrominocon-chic and Led Zeppelin album art. The Irish knew the "Good Folk" were already there before they arrived. And Loch Ness only stirred with a plesiosaur-like cryptozoid after Aleister Crowley's occult workings in Boleskine House on the Loch's south shore.

The history of prehistory is barely two centuries old. I knew someone, who knew someone, who predates it. You probably do as well. Of the four and a half billion years before consciousness came upon us, what might have been here that could not have been captured by a fossil?

We've been burning coal since the bronze age, but it's only since 1699, when Oxford naturalist Edward Lhwyd described fossilized plant structures found in Carboniferous strata, that it's been of academic interest. And even then, Lhwyd thought that the plants had grown within the rock, washed through crevices, not that the rock itself was the carbonized remains of ancient biomass. We've been burning crude oil in quantity for less than 200 years, and may be close to having expended half of the Earth's recoverable deposits, and for some there is still uncertainty about what exactly it is and where on Earth it comes from.

Cambridge lecturer Douglas Palmer, in his recent Prehistoric Past Revealed, writes that "typically, species only persist for, at most, a few million years. Human-related species such as Neanderthals only survived for 300,000 years before becoming extinct without evolving into a new species."

In geologic and even biologic time we're not so long out of the trees. We still sport vestigial tails; "wisdom teeth" that don't fit our smaller, modern jaws; hair that "stands up" on the back of our necks as a threatened large mammal might to make it appear larger to a potential threat. Our wise men can hear reports of strange lights in the sky and say it's the planet Jupiter, while wise men, not so many generations ago, knew Jupiter as the god Marduk.

Traditional peoples excepted, we have lived unaware of Deep Time until practically this time. Perhaps we've become conscious to it because we are, as a species, on the verge of reentering it. With increasing frequency we read headlines of new milestones set, drawn to a measure we didn't even know existed just two centuries ago. Average planetary temperatures are near a million-year high, and increasing. A million years ago, Australopithecus was supplanted by Homo Erectus. If the Earth has the grace of another million years to sustain complex life - a debatable and optimistic assumption - our descendants will be at least as different from us as we are from our first upright hominid ancestors. Whether they're returning to the trees, functioning on a level we can usually only imagine, or something entirely other, they won't be us. (And by our ingesting plastics and preservatives that "switch off" vital parts of our matrilineal, Mitochondrial DNA, no less than by our Venusian -worthy climate-sculpting, we may be deciding the issue for them.)

Hynek, 10 years after the "swamp gas" episode, said "I have come to support less and less the idea that UFOs are 'nuts and bolts' spacecrafts from other worlds. There are just too many things going against this theory. To me, it seems ridiculous that super intelligences would travel great distances to do relatively stupid things like stop cars, collect soil samples, and frighten people. I think we must begin to re-examine the evidence. We must begin to look closer to home."

I believe UFOs represent a phenomenon which is more a subject of Deep Time than of Deep Space. As are we. Except we haven't been here nearly as long.


Blogger Heywood J. said...

As thought-provoking as ever. It's always great to see you back in the mix, Jeff. Hope your family is doing better.

6/21/2007 12:04:00 PM  
Blogger just_another_dick said...

This sighting is pretty similar to the 1966 sighting that ended about 4 miles from where I live. Alas, I was only 4 when it happened so I can't speak for its authenticity, but local newspapers occasionally trot it out along with the Kecksburg crash, usually around Halloween. I guess Halloween is the period when we can take a break from fucking up the planet with our well-honed rat race scalpel and allow ourselves a few spooky stories before we re-attach our McNoses to the "self-poisoning" McGrindstone.

Source: Richard Hall, NICAP website
Original Source

One of the most dramatic encounters by police officers with an apparently structured, low-level UFO occurred in the early morning of April 17, 1966. Officers of the Portage County, Ohio, Sheriff's Department first saw the object rise up from near ground level, bathing them in light, near Ravenna, Ohio, about 5:00 A.M. Ordered by the sergeant to pursue the object, they chased it for eighty-five miles across the border into Pennsylvania, as it seemed to play a cat-and-mouse game with them. Along the route, police officers from other jurisdictions saw the object and joined in the chase.

Deputy Sheriff Dale Spaur and Mounted Deputy Wilbur 'Barney’ Neff had left their scout car to investigate an apparently abandoned automobile on Route 224. Spaur described the sighting in these words:

“I always look behind me so no one can come up behind me. And when I looked in this wooded area behind us, I saw this thing. At this time it was coming up . . . to about tree top level. I'd say about one hundred feet. it started moving toward us.... As it came over the trees, I looked at Barney and he was still watching the car . . and he didn't say nothing and the thing kept getting brighter and the area started to get light. .. . I told him to look over his shoulder, and he did.

"He just stood there with his mouth open for a minute, as bright as it was, and he looked down. And I started looking down and I looked at my hands and my clothes weren't burning or anything, when it stopped right over on top of us. The only thing, the only sound in the whole area was a hum . . . like a transformer being loaded or an overloaded transformer when it changes. . . .

"I was petrified, and, uh, so I moved my right foot, and everything seemed to work all right. And evidently he made the same decision I did, to get something between me and it, or us and it, or whatever you would say. So we both went for the car, we got in the car and we sat there...."

As they watched, the UFO moved toward the east, and then stopped again. Spaur picked up the microphone and reported to the dispatcher. At this time, the object was about 250 feet away, brilliantly lighting up the area ("It was very bright; it'd make your eyes water," Spaur said.) Sergeant Schoenfelt, off duty at the station, told them to follow it and keep it under observation while they tried to get a photo unit to the scene.

Spear and Neff turned south on Route 183, then back east on Route 224, which placed the object to their right, and out the left window. “At this time,” said Spaur. "it came straight south, just one motion, buddy, just a smooth glide . . ."and began moving east with them pacing it, just to their right at an estimated altitude of 300-500 feet, illuminating the ground beneath it. Once more the UFO darted to the north, now left of the car, and they sped up to over 100 mph to keep pace with it.

As the sky became brighter with predawn light, Spaur and Neff saw the UFO in silhouette, with a vertical projection at its rear. The object began to take on a metallic appearance as the chase continued. Spaur kept up a running conversation with other police cars that were trying to catch up with them. Once when they made a wrong turn at an intersection, the object stopped, then turned and came back to their position.

Police Officer Wayne Huston of East Palestine, Ohio, situated near the Pennsylvania border, had been monitoring the radio broadcasts and was parked at an intersection he knew the Portage County officers would he passing soon. Shortly afterward he saw the UFO pass by with the sheriff's cruiser in hot pursuit. He swung out and joined the chase. At Conway, Pennsylvania, Spaur spotted another parked police car and stopped to enlist his aid, since their Cruiser was almost out of gas. The Pennsylvania officer called his dispatcher.

According to Spaur, as the four officers stood and watched the UFO, which had stopped and was hovering, there was traffic on the radio about jets being scrambled to chase the UFO, and ". . . we could see these planes coming in.... When they started talking about fighter planes, it was just as if that thing heard every word that was said; it went PSSSSSHHEW, straight up; and I mean when it went up, friend, it didn't play no games; it went straight up” (Transcript of taped interview with Dale Spaur).

The Air Force "identified" the UFO as a satellite, seen part of the time, and confused with the planet Venus. Under pressure from Ohio officials, Major Hector Quintanilla, chief of PROJECT BLUE BOOK, had an acrimonious confrontation with witnesses and refused to change the identification, although it was pointed out to him that they had seen the UFO in addition to Venus and the moon at the conclusion of the observation. Major Quintanilla also denied that any jets had been scrambled.

William B. Weitzel conducted an exhaustive investigation on behalf of the NATIONAL INVESTIGATIONS COMMITTEE ON AERIAL PHENOMENA (NICAP), obtaining taped interviews, signed statements, sketches, and all pertinent data which was assembled into a massive report that was made available to congressional investigators. When the UNIVERSITY OF COLORADO UFO PROJECT was initiated in 1966, a copy of Weitzel’s report was hand-delivered to the director, Dr. Edward U. CONDON, for his consideration. The CONDON REPORT, published two years later, does not mention the case.

-- Richard Hall

The only difference is that Venus was the supposed culprit along with one of those special low flying satellites that were all the rage in the 60's.

6/21/2007 12:21:00 PM  
Blogger just_another_dick said...

One more thing, you said,

"Whether they're returning to the trees, functioning on a level we can usually only imagine, or something entirely other, they won't be us."

Maybe that's why we're shrinking.,12271,1185457,00.html

"Researchers have made a startling discovery: Americans are shrinking. A nation once famed for its strapping, well-nourished youth is gradually diminishing in physical stature."

Of course, it's only Americans as the rest of the world continues to grow & grow.

It would be kind of fitting for the country that idiotically clings to its "every man for himself" mentality, while eschewing any of the socialized accoutrements that other countries accept as givens for a civilized & humane society, to shrink to Chim-Chim size & be forced, ooking & eeking, back into the trees.

Nah! It's probably entirely too good to be true.

6/21/2007 12:41:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

The UFO circus is an interesting diversion, to be sure, and I think that Richard might be right when he suggests that it might well be an officially sanctioned diversion from our senseless toil. Refreshed, or freshly re-frightened and confirmed in our confusion, we turn back to The Grind more uncertain and more willing to buy the certainties we’re sold by the authorities.

Was Hynek ever in any better position to assess the reality of aliens than the rest of us?

What meaning is there to the "enlightened" discussion of whether our visitors travel in physical spaceships from other planets or are some sort of manifestation of our indwelling, unexplored psyche? We who still don’t understand the material world well enough to explain the function & nature of gravity are competent to declare what’s possible on the basis of our puny understanding of physical “laws” that we write?! John Horgan’s arrogantly ignorant presumption that we’ve arrived at the “end of science” (all there’s left to do is tweak small matters, etc) notwithstanding, Jeff is spot on with his reminder of just how recent the vintage of our knowledge is.

In short, we don’t know enough to say what’s possible and what’s not in extraterrestrial matters—for all we know, there could be technologies which would allow space travel much as the sci-fi writers have been imagining all these years.

A closed mind is more of a barrier than the so-called speed of light.

The electric light and heavier-than-air flight were both declared “impossible” by the scientific community for years after Edison’s incandescent light bulbs were working and the Wright Brothers were actually flying (see Science and the "Real World" if this seems too “far-fetched”.)

There is one area where Jeff is quite obviously mistaken, however, even if it’s only in a matter of semantics. He writes:

If the Earth has the grace of another million years to sustain complex life - a debatable and optimistic assumption - our descendants will be at least as different from us as we are from our first upright hominid ancestors. Whether they're returning to the trees, functioning on a level we can usually only imagine, or something entirely other, they won't be us.

This, you see, is the official story. In fact, according to that narrative, we have far less time because sustainability is—just like those fantasies of Edison and Wilbur & Orville—“impossible”.

Doom, gloom…oh, there’s just nothing we can do. No silver bullet can save us…

…blah, blah, blah…

If being engaged in meaningful work, secure from the terror of the State and the programmed fears of hunger, cold & violent death constitutes “functioning on a level we can usually only imagine, or something entirely other,” then this might indeed be something “new,” but since the truth is that we could these things right now, it would still very much be “us,” just not the us that we’ve been led to believe we “are”.

Btw, Richard's strange note about our shrinking stature has just triggered an old memory, a funny song by Genesis back when Phil Collins was just a drummer, before he went on to become a ladies undergarment salesman:

Get 'Em Out By Friday


(John Pebble of Styx Enterprises):
"Get 'em out by Friday!
You don't get paid till the last one's well on his way.
Get 'em out by Friday!
It's important that we keep to schedule, there must be no delay."

(Mark Hall of Styx Enterprises, otherwise known as "The Winkler"):
"I represent a firm of gentlemen who recently purchased this
house and all the others in the road,
In the interest of humanity we've found a better place for you
to go, go-woh, go-woh"

(Mrs. Barrow,a tenant):
"Oh no, this I can't believe,
Oh Mary, they're asking us to leave."

(Mr. Pebble):
"Get 'em out by Friday!
I've told you before, 's good many gone if we let them stay.
And if it isn't easy,
You can squeeze a little grease and our troubles will soon run away."

(Mrs. Barrow):
"After all this time, they ask us to leave,
And I told them we could pay double the rent.
I don't know why it seemed so funny,
Seeing as how they'd take more money.
The winkler called again, he came here this morning,
With four hundred pounds and a photograph of the place he has found.
A block of flats with central heating.
I think we're going to find it hard."

(Mr. Pebble):
"Now we've got them!
I've always said that cash cash cash can do anything well.
Work can be rewarding
When a flash of intuition is a gift that helps you

(Mr. Hall):
"Here we are in Harlow New Town, did you recognise your block
across the square, over there,
Sadly since last time we spoke, we've found we've had to raise
the rent again,
just a bit."

(Mrs. Barrow):
"Oh no, this I can't believe
Oh Mary, and we agreed to leave."

~ ~ ~

(a passage of time)

(18/9/2012 T.V. Flash on all Dial-A-Program Services)

This is an announcement from Genetic Control:
"It is my sad duty to inform you of a four foot restriction on humanoid height."

(Extract from coversation of Joe Ordinary in Local Puborama):
"I hear the directors of Genetic Control have been buying all the
properties that have recently been sold, taking risks oh so bold.
It's said now that people will be shorter in height,
they can fit twice as many in the same building site.
(they say it's alright),
Beginning with the tenants of the town of Harlow,
in the interest of humanity, they've been told they must go,,br> told they must go-go-go-go."

(Sir John De Pebble of United Blacksprings International):
"I think I've fixed a new deal
A dozen properties - we'll buy at five and sell at thirty four,
Some are still inhabited,
It's time to send the winkler to see them,
he'll have to work some more."

(Memo from Satin Peter of Rock Development Ltd.):
"With land in your hand, you'll be happy on earth
Then invest in the Church for your heaven."

(Couldn't find a free streaming mp3 of that one, but Watcher of the Skies is maybe just as relevant.)

Nah, that's just too diabolical--they can't play with our genes, too, can they? I mean, our thoughts and the fabric of reality itself, okay, but our genes?! Crikey--is there nothing sacred?

6/21/2007 03:16:00 PM  
Blogger Emlon said...

On topic, I have seen several 'things' that were not unlike those described here - I am not going to say they were UFOs but they were unidentifiable, and airborn. Unless you have experienced it, you can't compare it because it isn't like anything else.

Off topic, but distinctly related, on the recent killings in Oakland:

6/21/2007 04:32:00 PM  
Blogger muddy elephant said...


You've stepped up to the plate and hit another one well beyond the confines of the ballpark. Thanks for your thoughts.

6/21/2007 04:37:00 PM  
Blogger Mark said...


Jeff quoted this man:

"To me, it seems ridiculous that super intelligences would travel great distances to do relatively stupid things like stop cars, collect soil samples, and frighten people. I think we must begin to re-examine the evidence. We must begin to look closer to home."

Look up. I see the moon, the moon sees me, what the hell is the moon, and what the hell is me?

Who Built the Moon? by Christopher Knight, Alan Butler : "For most people the suggestion that the Moon could be artificial is about as sensible as saying that it is made of green cheese..."

Moreover, taking others at face value from multiple 'sources' (like [1] Bob Lazar ['temp help' on back-engineering UFOs at S-4/Groom Lake]) and [2] Robert O. Dean [ex-U.S. NATO Europe desk officer with top secret clearance, who still curses the day he was tossed a top secret NATO report on UFOs and extraterrestrials by his commander]), both claim to have read high level top secret information that we've been genetically manipulated for many millennia.

The Lazar Tape... and excerpts from the Government Bible (1991)
40 min - Apr 14, 2007 - small full
Robert Scott Lazar (January 26, 1959), or Bob Lazar, claims to have worked from 1988 until 1989 as a physicist at an area called S-4 (Sector Four), located near Groom Lake, Nevada, next to Area 51. According to Lazar, S-4 served as a hidden military location for the study of extraterrestrial flying saucers. Lazar says he saw nine different alien discs there and provides details on their mode of propulsion. [He additionally talks about files he was instructed to read 'to bring him up to speed' about humans being engineered over 60 times in their history--he doesn't elaborate how the original documents gained this information or whether that was accurate either. He's just relaying what he read. This is a shortened free version of his nearly hour long talk. It may only include part of what I am talking about. There is additionally a long interview with him years later.]

Cutting Edge Show 54 Robert O. Dean - Is Humanity Ready for UFO Disclosure
25 min - Jul 13, 2005 - small full

[To answer his question in the title, he says he started out as 'hell yes,' then has moved to 'hell no!' ;-) The 'interviewers' as many of these kind of programs do, tend to come across as 'not really all there in the head', though Dean the person they are interviewing does to me. Godard would love the contrast of personalities.]

The way the describe it is influenced by their own religious views. Lazar is 'secular'. Dean inserts a Christian viewpoint.


Jeff writes:

Whether they're returning to the trees, functioning on a level we can usually only imagine, or something entirely other, they won't be us."

Completely agreeing with IC, though taking Dan Burisch head on as well, he notes that one 'timeline version 'of 'humans'--that came back to visit us from around 50,000 in the future (and became captive in some U.S. military project), look quite different. There's another version he describes from 30,000 in the future I think as well. I refuse to spoil his descriptions. Watch his testimony and judge for yourself.

Once this guy's humor defense mechanism crumbles in some places in this interview, you can see how terrified, traumatized, and even (in my opinion) seems to have suffered a case of arrested psychological development from his teenage years shocks), given what he knows and when his life took a serious trajectory change due to a UFO contact episode that involved some form of mental transference.

He sometimes has even a hard time speaking when he drops the humor, and is on the verge of tears. I find this really hard to watch as well without incredible empathy. They have to cut away several times when he is openly bawling and come back when he is composed.

Out from under Majestic: Dan Burisch uncensored
2 hr 16 min - Aug 9, 2006 - small

A video interview [by Project Camelot] with Dan Burisch Las Vegas, July 2006

In this unique interview, Dan is entertaining, humorous, serious, emotional, articulate and sincere, as he responds to incisive questions... all the questions we ourselves wanted to ask in order to better understand his experiences.

This may be his last interview. This unique testimony will give viewers a long, close-up look at the real Dan Burisch. We hope you enjoy and appreciate your time with him as much as we did.

6/21/2007 06:26:00 PM  
Blogger Mark said...

If you want to talk 'deep time', and renovations in the 'history of pre-history,' here's some books I would recommend via some lists to browse:

So you'd like to...
Seek Solid Archaeoastronomy Links to Occult Politics?

So you'd like to...
Seek Solid Archaeoastronomy Links to Occult Politics?

6/21/2007 07:14:00 PM  
Blogger middleworld said...

In January, out of the blue, I dreamed that aliens took over. They looked exactly like us, only they had no feelings. A slow painful torturous death bothered them not at all. What made the so powerful were their flying robots, shaped like spherical fractal patterns, orangeish in color, that "sniffed" around the humans like dogs, and recorded and reported everything to their alien masters. Resistance was not even a remote possibility.

Some people were disappearing, or just not there. Some were sort of decomposing in bags. To some nothing had happened yet.

The robots could easily go underwater. The aliens were like an occupying army.

Each humanoid alien seemed concerned with a different thing. Some of the things seemed banal. One asked me directions to a museum. The location of the dream was near water somewhere, but it was also near home, or in someone’s home.

I woke up feeling crushed and devastated, with a terrible foreboding. And the phrase in my head "death is no escape"

6/22/2007 06:21:00 AM  
Blogger AJ said...

"We who still don’t understand the material world well enough.."

Which could also be applied to mainstream religious views.

I remember on one occasion I asked my son's math teacher what the mathematical possibility of life on other planets were. Her response was:

"None.Jesus cannot be crucified again."

The disturbing thing was that this was not just her {intellectual} position, but a supposed universal moral one that immediately applied to me for asking such a silly question.

Glad your family is doing well Jeff-still waiting for your book to be delivered!
(If you wait long enough, perhaps the CD will be worth more than the USD {gasp},...... or is that your plan?)

6/22/2007 08:11:00 AM  
Blogger Sounder said...

Yikes middleworld, that was a disturbingly plausible scenario. I would like metaphor such as this to drive people toward opening up to potential through cultivation of ethical values, precisely the thing that the alien oppressors lack.

Jeff said;

"A "scientific method" that hasn't been humbled by ineffable experience will go loping off into foolishness as it tries to hold it all together."

I think the ineffable did (and does) inspire science, it’s just that as categories become more hardened, that voice becomes less available.

From my blogspot writing; (sorry shrub)

How do we relate to, and bring material from out of the ineffable? We have “visions”, and then we interpret the vision into prosaic terms so that others may understand it. This social compact (or inevitability) feeds back into the questions that we ask of the ineffable. Our knowledge is not the recognition of a pre-existing ideal (Plato). Our knowledge is not a new discovery (Sophists). Our knowledge instead represents answers that are arrived at always within the terms of the questions asked (Aristotle).

All the things that are thought to have been put their proper place stifle intuition. If the places they have been put are not proper then a conflict exists between conscious and sub-conscious elements of mind, and the concurrent need to deny ones cognitive dissonance limits the depth of our conceptual structuring. If the loud voice of the ego is spouting off, then the still small voice will not be heard.

My opinion is that because we seldom examine the origins of our criteria for understanding and how they shape our psyche, we are then shaped by society rather than finding the leverage whereby we may better participate in the shaping of society.

6/22/2007 09:58:00 AM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

Right on, Sounder! You could really expand on that thought--many of us can't seem to understand how the question effects the answer...

Serendipitously enough, I started reading a new book yesterday, after I wrote that comment about the ridiculousness of our learned men telling us what’s possible and what’s not, and another example fell right into my lap. I say “fell” because I do not go out of my way to find this stuff—it seems to find me.

I realize that Tsoldrin has found my anti-scientific establishment rants somewhat anti-science, but this is not the case. I love science. It’s what’s done in its name that I find reprehensible, just like genuine spirituality when religion comes calling. The fact is that different mindsets will produce different science, Sokal be damned. If we pre-judge everything on the basis of whether it accords with our accepted framework, then we’re looking at the world with our eyes closed.

And this happens. Every day.

The forbidden concept I just happened to run into was exactly what I mentioned in my comment: the religious tenet of Light Speed among the Orthodox. It’s in a brilliant novel which has a spaceship full of weird aliens (is there any other kind?) crash landing in medieval Germany--Eifelheim by Michael Flynn. (Available online, strangely enough for a new book, here ). Stunned by the book’s scientific premise—that the speed of light is variable and that Planck’s constant isn’t (constant), I went online and found some science guys talking about the theory (VSL) in some very telling ways.

The establishment guys are calling one of VSL’s most fiery proponents-- Joao Magueijo--a “heretic” (don’t they realize what this makes them sound like?) and are urging excommunication and the burning of books. Magueijo responds by calling them all sorts of fun things.

The level-headed science guys are saying, “No, that’s not very scientific” about the Inquisitors and have put forth something called the Declaration of Academic Freedom. You can drop some eaves on this conversation at a place called Arcadian Functor in a post called (ironically or not) Freedom Fighters.

Here’s a sample of the DAF:

Article 8: Freedom to publish scientific results

A deplorable censorship of scientific papers has now become the standard practice of the editorial boards of major journals and electronic archives, and their bands of alleged expert referees. The referees are for the most part protected by anonymity so that an author cannot verify their alleged expertise. Papers are now routinely rejected if the author disagrees with or contradicts preferred theory and the mainstream orthodoxy. Many papers are now rejected automatically by virtue of the appearance in the author list of a particular scientist who has not found favour with the editors, the referees, or other expert censors, without any regard whatsoever for the contents of the paper. There is a blacklisting of dissenting scientists and this list is ommunicated between participating editorial boards. This all amounts to gross bias and a culpable suppression of free thinking, and are to be condemned by the international scientific community.

All scientists shall have the right to present their scientific research results, in whole or in part, at relevant scientific conferences, and to publish the same in printed scientific journals, electronic archives, and any other media. No scientist shall have their papers or reports rejected when submitted for publication in scientific journals, electronic archives, or other media, simply because their work questions current majority opinion, conflicts with the views of an editorial board, undermines the bases of other current or planned research projects by other scientists, is in conflict with any political dogma or religious creed, or the personal opinion of another, and no scientist shall be blacklisted or otherwise censured and prevented from publication by any other person whomsoever. No scientist shall block, modify, or otherwise interfere with the publication of a scientist's work in the promise of any presents or other bribes whatsoever.

In Arcadian Functor’s posts on VSL (here, (here, and here), we find this gem which brings us back to Jeff’s post, specifically the notion of how much we think we know:

At a seminar here yesterday we heard that as recently as the 1920s people still believed that the Milky Way was the entire universe, with the sun sitting at its centre. A mapping of globular clusters in the Milky Way soon indicated that the sun lay on the periphery of the galaxy, and it was finally recognised that the strange spiral nebulae were in fact distant galaxies, not unlike our own. The same seminar concluded, on the observation that accelerated publication rates had not produced as many major breakthroughs in the last two decades, that technology had finally caught up with observations over the electromagnetic spectrum and that we may well have seen most of what there is to see. Naturally there was some dissent. To believe that in a mere 80 years humanity can go from a relatively trivial understanding of the cosmos to complete comprehension is hubris.

Today we are just beginning to observe the so-called Dark Matter in the skies. The luminous baryonic matter is a small fraction ($\frac{\pi - 3}{\pi}$) of the matter we imagine is out there. No doubt this is only another small step in the evolving vision of our mind. A Theory of Everything can never be more than a theory of what little we have known before.

My question here is what would happen if this Declaration of Academic Freedom caught on? Might we revisit cold fusion, for example, without the bias & sabotage? Or, bolder still, why not the science of Tesla--has that mine really been thoroughly exhausted, or is his status as "eccentric crank" sufficient to block any further inquiry into the notion of energy from the vacuum?

Variable Speed of Light theorizing is attacked, not on its merit, but simply because it appears to threaten the current paradigm. This is the objective and impartial pursuit of knowledge?

That declaration I quoted above said, in part, that no "...scientist shall have their papers or reports rejected when submitted for publication in scientific journals, electronic archives, or other media, simply because their work questions current majority opinion, conflicts with the views of an editorial board, undermines the bases of other current or planned research projects by other scientists, is in conflict with any political dogma or religious creed, or the personal opinion of another, and no scientist shall be blacklisted or otherwise censured and prevented from publication by any other person whomsoever."

And yet, this is what happens everyday, even when no challenging new research is submitted for publication. This affects every avenue of life, from the "esoteric" questions like life outside our little sun system to the most "mundane" business of how we live. The political/economic establishment tells us (indirectly at times) that American imperialism is justified because there is no substitute for oil and that we can't really feed the poor. Is the scientific community somehow released from their moral obligation to humanity in the face of such lies?

Consider the case of Einstein, who has become institutionalized to the point where none may question the "laws" he laid down...and yet, in life Einstein was no close-minded authoritarian. True, he was never comfortable with quantum mechanics, nor was he courageous enough to embrace David Bohm's appeal for a solution to non-locality (in the form of Bohm's implicate/explicate order model), but then again, he died before John Bell wrote his famous theorem and the work of Alain Aspect.

The point I'm trying to make with Einstein is that he neither turned his back on mankind nor closed his mind to questions which challenged the orthodoxy of his day. One has only to consider his correspondence with Prof. Hapgood, in which he urged him to continue his work on crustal displacement theory in the search for Atlantis.

Of course, the Egyptologists will have none of this sort of thing, despite the by now common knowledge that the erosion of the sphinx was caused by water, not wind, (which pushes the age of the pyramids back thousands of years and opens the door to the possibility that there could well have been technologically advanced civilizations in the remote past...precisely because this challenges their precious model and their grand self assurance.

No, Einstein did not deify himself; this was done by the establishment which grew up in the rubble of classical physics. He is a saint to the "intellectual mastubators" (as Joao Magueijo and Bibhas De describe them) who write elegantly irrelevant theories of string and super-string.

Silly string.

When they take time out from their Nobel prize-strewn playground to condemn practical experiments like Steorn's magnetic motors, as Michio Kaku does, on the basis that such things would contradict another saint's "laws" (Newton's 2nd thermodynamic scripture), it's bias, pure and simple. Self-serving bias at that.

Speaking of bias, I’m willing to consider Dan Burisch and Bob Lazar again, Mark, but I wish they wouldn’t associate with all those cheesy people—it doesn’t really help their case much. The other problem I have with that school is that it tends to lead to Phil Schneider, who sounds like he was invented by Mr. Icke…but that’s just my own bias showing up again, right on time.

At least I'm honest about it. And, I will check out those materials, Mark.

6/22/2007 03:15:00 PM  
Blogger ericswan said...

I (i) don't know how any of you feel about reading anything on the internet that might be life changing but this read bucks up.

6/22/2007 09:10:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...


Thanks. This one’s for you: it’s called Tolkien's Industrial Apocalypse, but it’s got an undercurrent of Steiner’s warnings about Gaia’s revenge and lots more in that vein…

6/22/2007 11:46:00 PM  
Blogger Mark said...


Continuing the theme of the artificial moon, the "NASA Airbrushed UFOs / Lunar Base Towers" Trailer
4 min - Aug 26, 2006

It's from the "UFO - The Greatest Story Ever Denied" movie [additionally on the web], by Jose Escamilla. for more information.


I've additionally seen a short excerpt film of a pass of a U.S. probe over the moon where it was looking down on the moon as it was passing over and it caught one of these towers actually "pushing out" a short spurt of some kind of dark bellow of smoke for a second, then it was over, and the empty stack passes out of sight below the still passing probe.


Surely we've all seen the famous "hexagon" 6-sided crater? It is in Mare Crisium. This may imply that the moon has a geodesic undergirding?

The Mare Crisium location "just happens" to be the location of Arthur C. Clark's short story "The Sentinel" (1948) where an alien object is found.

"Mare Crisium is the setting for Arthur C. Clarke's 1951 short story "The Sentinel"...."The Sentinel" is a short story by Arthur C. Clarke, famous for being expanded (and extensively modified) into [future] the novel and movie 2001: A Space Odyssey. Clarke has actually expressed impatience with the common description of it as "the story on which 2001 is based." He has been noted as saying, it is like comparing "an acorn to the resulting oak-tree". [1]

It was written in 1948 for a BBC competition (in which it failed to place) and was first published in the magazine 10 Story Fantasy in 1951, under the title "Sentinel of Eternity". It first appeared in the USA in The Avon Science Fiction and Fantasy Reader published by Avon Periodicals, Inc. in 1951. Despite the failure of the story, it changed the course of Clarke's career.

The story deals with the discovery of an artifact on Earth's Moon left behind eons ago by ancient aliens. The object is made of a polished mineral and pyramidal in shape, and is surrounded by a spherical forcefield. The first-person narrator speculates at one point that the mysterious aliens who left this structure on the Moon may have used mechanisms belonging "to a technology that lies beyond our horizons, perhaps to the technology of para-physical forces."

For millennia (evidenced by dust buildup around its forcefield) the artifact has transmitted signals into deep space, but it ceases to transmit when the astronauts who discover it breach the forcefield. The narrator hypothesizes that this "sentinel" was left on the moon as a "warning beacon" for the possible intelligent and spacefaring life that might develop on Earth.

This quote illustrates the idea, and its ramifications:

"It was only a matter of time before we found the pyramid and forced it open. Now its signals have ceased, and those whose duty it is will be turning their minds upon Earth. Perhaps they wish to help our infant civilization. But they must be very, very old, and the old are often insanely jealous of the young."

In the movie 2001: A Space Odyssey, the operation of the sentinel is reversed. It is the energy of the sun, falling for the first time on the uncovered artifact, that triggers the signal that creatures from the Earth had taken the first step into space."

Just a huge coincidence of course he wrote that it was there. Who is Arthur C. Clarke? Because he was "accidentally correct" about Saturn in the publication of his novel 2001, as another interesting alien technology location.

Perhaps this rough hexagon crater was a jury-rigged repair job from some damage (see one side of it)--where they skimped on hiring someone with the skills of Slartibartfast to provide the more typical aesthetic disguise touch of the underlying construction?


Further coordination of stories: there is additionally an astronaut book, We Discovered Alien Bases on the Moon II by Fred Steckling and Glenn Steckling (first edition 1990, second edition updated 1997):

16 of 18 people found the following review helpful:
I wouldn't doubt it, March 15, 2001
By U.F.O. nut (nowhere) - See all my reviews

George Adamski claimed in the 50's that he saw trees and rivers on the moon. Now, decades after he allegedly visited there, there are NASA photos which partly corroborate what he said: the pictures show green blotchy areas inside meteor craters... hmm, what could that be? And especially interesting are the pictures of "tracks" on the moon, which clearly seem to be artificially produced-- possibly some sort of mining operation by the aliens. Further, there are countless photos of domes and other strange complex on the lunar surface. Thus, the evidence is in the photos, so it's up to you to decide whether or not you believe in them.

Every serious UFO researcher should own this book. For more information I recommend Alien Agenda by Jim Marrs and Martian Genesis by Herbie Brennan.

14 of 17 people found the following review helpful:
The Best Book Since sliced Bread, January 20, 2001
By DeCloshley (Russia) - See all my reviews

This book although claimed to be debunked has not received any debunking at all from the person below who failed to debunk it successfully even to me by email. The photos are what they claim to be and NASA has made sure no one can check them by republishing the photos at such a small scale that nothing is visible. I have had a high power telescope in operation checking the pictures and found them all (the ones visible on this side of the moon) totally authentic."


Who knows whether all are friendly, indifferent, or hostile and wanting this cute little blue green world for their own (since some, it is argued, were likely here long before [Forbidden Archeology, and all that], millions of years ago, and come back to see lots of other things scurrying about.

Though I think we might assume that the weaponization of space might be ultimately justified on an alien threat (bogus or real, on human political schedules, as implied by Von Braun.) However, he believed emphatically that all from his view were friendly. I don't think I (much less he) had the complete information, and things do change...

Title: Triangles,the Weaponization of Space & the Fake Alien Threat: 2 high level "outs" compared
2006.08.07 12:01
Description: Werner von Braun vs. Phil Schneider go head to head. Is there an alien threat, or is it just a ploy to get the weaponization of space from which people have been on record wanting to condition people to accept such a "danger" to justify military budgets and their own global Naziesque path to power and eventually dominating the earth from space? This is a comment posted from "Rigorous Intuition v.2.0"


And Arthur C. Clarke's meganovel 2001 and megamovie 2001 (and 2010) only enhances his supposed 'insider status' since he writes-up about an alien technological presence "on a moon around Saturn." In the movie 2010, it turns into "Europa." Well, guess what?

Actually, it's Iapetus--quoting from a Jan 2001 comment at RI, this 'moon of Saturn' which looks more like a 900 mile wide abandoned alien spaceship with geometric undergirding, than anything formed out of the random gravity adhesions of space rock and dust:

The 900 mile wide question

In [now less than] nine months, September 2007, NASA will have a closer look at the constructed tetrahedral faceted 900 mile spheroid alien spaceship [very similar to Earth's moon construction it seems], orbiting at the most far distant canted angle around Saturn unlike all of its other closer moons, AKA, "Iapetus."

"The 2007 Cassini fly-by should send us close-ups of these extraordinary features that are literally 1000 times better... than these:

Read the three parts here:
and 2 and 3

"Iapetus" (for lack of another name for the faceted 900 mile wide "it", for the moment) looks quite like the "Death Star" of Star Wars fame actually, and it seems constructed from geodesic architecture [like Earth's moon's hexagonal Mare Crisium]: giving the horizon line of "it" regular straight edge facets 100s of miles long; surface square city block features visible in some areas; and hexagonal 'craters' of [pushed in flat internal] collapse, instead of impact.

Oh, there's a huge vertically straight (and perfectly at the equator) 12 mile high 'weld' running around "it" as well. [exactly the same like the "Death Star" models in Star Wars]

What did George Lucas [or his scriptwriters who inserted it] know? [Where did they get the "random idea"?]

And what did Arthur C. Clarke know?

In his novel 2001 he put [his SECOND other "perfectly random" though perfectly right on the money 'guess'] 'the Monolith', that symbol of alien intelligence and alien intervention in the human species in our solar system "around a moon of Saturn...." [where, voila , it does seem to be.]

The Brookings Institute had some public relations in 1960. Their New York Times article 'Mankind is Warned to Prepare for Discovery of Life in Space', where they opined that discovery of aliens or alien archaeological finds would "destroy human civilization"--...with lots of petty earth politics evaporating.

Of course others may attempt to use it as a sign to create the weaponization of space, as mentioned earlier...

September 2007 is going to be a big month in earth history I predict if we get to see more accurate images of "Iapetus."


We're practically swimming in exopolitics like the proverbial fish in water that is unaware of the water all around it, debating whether 'the water theory' really exists.

"Impartial observers from other planets would consider ours an utterly bizarre enclave if it were populated by birds, defined as flying animals, that nevertheless rarely or never actually flew. They would also be perplexed if they encountered in our seas, lakes, rivers, and ponds, creatures defined as swimmers that never did any swimming. But they would be even more surprised to encounter a species defined as a thinking animal if, in fact, the creature very rarely indulged in actual thinking." --Steve Allen

6/23/2007 04:17:00 AM  
Blogger Mark said...


"They" may have warned us to stay off the moon,--particularly the dark side of the moon--though those around Kennedy in the early 1960s insisted humans go. The implications of the whole 'moon space program' being faked may have had a lot to do with alien's flicking their little pinky finger at such a project, so the whole thing was filmed on earth to make it look like someone went to justify the failed project goal getting an 'alien veto'?

E.D.: The second part of her account had to do with the stalking of our space mission by UFOs of our space missions to the moon and so on. She even said that they apparently helped in one case by bringing the Apollo 13 back, that was the impression that she got and..

D.T.: yes but they (aliens) also didn't want that craft to investigate the part of the moon that they was going to, so they may have caused some of it too, but it was supposed, we were told not to go but we ignored it. Now thats what I've heard, that some of the stuff he was telling me.

E.D. Did he say that, your direct contact?

D.T.: Yes!

E.D.: That the United States was told not to go to the moon?

D.T.: To that certain place on the back side of the moon.

E.D.: And did he know why we weren't supposed to go there?

D.T.: I guess they didn't want us to see something back there, I don't know, I don't know that part.

Of course none of the Apollo missions went much further than earth orbit. If they did I expect they utilized some black projects technology. They could hardly risk the public relations disaster of a "TV live" mission so any actual attempts would have assuredly been secret. Anyway, in the made for TV Appollo missions, they would have all died in their NASA rinky tin cans due to the Van Allen radiation belts if they went much further, and they didn't even have enough fuel in their rockets in these "made for TV" spaceshots as noted by von Braun's own calculations in the early 1960s. All this is noted in the expensive and heavily researched film A Funny Thing Happened on the Way To the Moon (which is only about the moon mission fakery, instead of about aliens.)

I see the moon, the moon sees me...

6/23/2007 04:55:00 AM  
Blogger Mark said...


Sea of Tranquility hexagons on the Moon.

6/23/2007 06:16:00 AM  
Blogger ericswan said...

IC.. I hope Movie Girl picks up on the link you posted above and maybe Eve might have something to say on the link that I posted.

Mark..I agree with your points on the Apollo fakery but my experience as opposed to my intuition is informing me that time travel is more likely than space travel and that includes the so called higher intelligence alien technology. I'm not saying that we are alone in the universe. I'm tending more toward IC's link to Steiner and his thoughts along the lines that God was totally disapated when he created the universe. Angels and elves, Satan and Sauron all part of the creation with the light tangled into darkness at varying degrees.

Stillness is motion. Accretion is the model. I know I'm not a unique being but I do have some knowledge from this particular time/space entity that is me of the recursive aspect of my life. I made a concious decision (choice) to savour the trip just as much as arriving at my destiny.
My working life is an extension of a machine and that machine and me feed 30,000 people a week.
What happens when I put my tools down? Tolkein would have me disappear over the horizon. Wagner would that I just disappear.

6/23/2007 11:34:00 AM  
Blogger Mark said...


'Monolithic' mathematics

In Knight and Lomas's book Who Built the Moon, the main arguments circle around the perfect and unprecedented ratios between various planetary and solar radii and volumes as entirely unpatterned--until you get to the solar system's only metric proportionally nested and scaled 'ideal' distances between Earth, Moon, and Sun relationships. This implies that the monolithic math was all worked out to fit some gravitational or 'look at me' issue before the Moon was built/placed to fit already existing Earth and Sun relationships.

However, the authors say in their book that (somewhat untrue it seems, with regards to Iapetus/Saturn) that 'no other planet, moon, sun relationships of radii, mutual proportions with each other, etc., occur like this in the solar system,' basically.

However, Hoagland in 2005 (a year before the Knight/Lomas book of 2006) was already arguing for some similar 'perfect numerical monolithic math' for Iaepetus/Saturn relationships, which involved similar unique/strange 'perfect numbers' and nested numbers, to whit, in this case with Iaepetus being the only canted angle moon of Saturn at so precisely a proportion (15 degrees) and a relationship strangely almost perfect (of Iapetus being almost exactly 60 Saturn radiuses away) which Hoagland claims strangely 'locks' into the relationship to the width of Iaepetus (using 900 miles). None of the other moons of Saturn have any 'monolithic math' interrelationships with Saturn in such a geometric 'lock and key' relationship. That may be nothing, since the relationship doesn't hold outside of using English miles (with Iaepetus's 718 km radii), though indeed, yes,..59.09 Saturn radiuses away is Iapetus, and it's tipped in a near perfect circle at 15 degrees.

Hoagland additionally mentions that for typically offset orbits of moons around planets, when they are so eccentrically off the plane of the ecliptic, you find additional eccentricity making very ellipse like orbits as well. However, Iaepetus is still almost a perfect circle, despite being so far off the plane of the ecliptic, which is unprecedented--and it's all alone. Moreover, the same base 60 'monolithic math' issues that figure so much in Knight and Lomas's work (and in Knight/Butler's Civilization One) are seen in at least one Saturn/Iaepetus relationship, at least closely in terms of the radii distances between planet and moon. I have not seen anyone else comment on this number commonality, so here we go. Hoagland writes:

"The sharp reader will have noticed, from the preceding references, that Iapetus currently orbits slightly less than 60 radii away from Saturn (59.091 radii, to be exact - below).

[Though off a different set of numbers, mostly 400x and 109x in many ways, geometric nested proportions and values between Earth-Sun-Moon radii and volume figure prominently in Knight and Lomas's Who Built the Moon.]

This discrepancy, 0.15% -- in the artificial model that precisely 60 radii was originally intended -- would represent how much Iapetus has drifted since it was “parked” (as a designed “station”) in Saturn orbit. That rate of drift, either due to Saturnian/sun tides, or other forces (to be discussed in detail later), could give another way to estimate – other than by counting craters – roughly “when” this entire scenario in fact occurred …. [Thus Hoagland clames drift as a rationale for the 'off' number, as well as argues evidence of which side of synchronous rotating Iaepetus being pocked with dust and damage more (the currently always facing Saturn side, strangely), implies that something threw it for a loop in the past and turned the damaged side toward Saturn, or that it was placed that way...?]

That “ideal” Iapetus distance from Saturn just “happens” to also be base 60 -- another tetrahedral number -- suddenly appearing in the first Sumerian civilization on Earth some ~ 6000 years ago ….

[Actually, read Civilization One for a critique of it starting with Sumeria. Comparatively, some Chinese historical measurements comparisons that I have done--NOT mentioned in Civilization One show some strange similar findings as Knight and Butler get in their book.]

[Base 60 is]...[a] number that fits perfectly into the redundant, equally mysterious tetrahedral placement of the two major “ring basins” we’ve previously discussed on Iapetus … 120/240 degrees apart. [and 60 degrees is the internal angle of a hexagon]

And, the same number that is also redundantly communicated via Iapetus’ own baffling Platonic shape!

Which leads us to another startling “coincidence.”

If you take the inclination of Iapetus’ orbit (~ 15 degrees) and multiply by its distance in Saturn radii (60) [thus getting into 'Knight and Lomas' 'monolithic math' territory], the result is the average of the current Cassini “triaxial measurements” of Iapetus’ diameter (below)—

~ 900 miles!

The measured Iapetus’ diameter!! [X, that's not a ratio, that's an artifact of 'miles.']

(The slight discrepancies between the “ideal numbers,” and those currently observed, can easily be explained as slight changes – occurring over a literally geological period of time – in the evolving orbital elements of Iapetus … again, due to external solar system forces.)

All these numbers – Iapetus’ size, distance from Saturn, and orbital inclination -- are “independent variables.” Meaning – none of them are automatically interrelated, or mandated by any current theory of satellite formation. Yet, for some reason, they have all come together in Iapetus … this one bizarre “moon” … orbiting Saturn. This simply makes no sense, and the odds of it happening coincidentally – especially, resulting in the actual diameter of Iapetus expressed in miles! -- are (really!) “astronomical”—

Unless this was designed!

Now, if Iapetus was created (literally, “from the ground up”) -- to memorialize “something” extremely valuable and historically important -- both its size and orbital elements could easily have been precisely engineered …

--similar to Knight and Lomas's data arguments concerning similar Moon, Sun, Earth proportions, radii, masses, and distances, mass ratios noted to fit lock and key in Knight and Lomas. Some of them the same 'base 60' relationships noted in Who Built the Moon, and in Civilization One.

Since Hoagland finds such interesting ratios and nested numbers between Iaepetus and Saturn in 2D, what about 3D (mass/volume)? Knight and Lomas find nested 'monolithic math' in volume between Earth, Sun, and Moon as well. Will anything interesting show up in ratios between Iaepetus and Saturn, similarly? I didn't find any clear mass or volume proportions nested between the three (Saturn, Iaepetus, Sun, using NASA reported figures in km.). Such a lack of other correlations Knight and Lomas mention in their own exhaustive analysis of all permutations I remember.

Conclusion, or Beginning?

Mentioned above, and what did Clarke write about as the key evidences of alien intelligence in 2001 the novel?

It was to do with various mathematic interrelated proportions as the key bit of evidence of alien intelligence and design in 'the Monolith.' He additionally (as summarized on p. 63-4 of Who Built the Moon), made an argument that there would be gravitational and magnetic anomalies as a sign of 'them.' These similar gravitational to mass anomalies are found on the Moon (p. 73-4 in Who Built The Moon), implying a 'super small core' and a mostly less dense moon. The same strange point that it should weigh more (i.e., a gravitational anomaly) is found on Iapetus as well as the Moon, by the way.

In the novel 2001, Clarke wrote of both Moon and Iapetus. The latter which he could not have publicly known about to pick at random out of the sky then--in then public domain knowledge.

Quoting Clarke's novel 2001, transcribed by Hoagland:

"There was more; already he was certain that Iapetus was his goal.… One hemisphere of the satellite, which, like its companions, turned the same face always toward Saturn, was extremely dark, and showed very little surface detail. In complete contrast, the other was dominated by a brilliant white oval, about four hundred miles long and two hundred wide. At the moment, only part of this striking formation was in daylight, but the reason for Iapetus’s extraordinary variations in brilliance was now quite obvious …."

Those words -- written over forty years ago by...Arthur C. Clarke -- describe the voyage of a lone, surviving astronaut – David Bowman – to the ringed wonder of the solar system, the planet Saturn, aboard a 21st Century spacecraft named “Discovery.”

[Hoagland additionally notes Clarke describing perfect features on the surface that no one could have known. Hoagland writes that Carl Sagan sent some of the first images to Clarke, with the note "thinking of you..." because Clark 'pre-described' Iapetus before the fly-by up close with more accuracy than anyone else had at all.]

What Bowman discovers in the Saturn system – on an enigmatic moon called “Iapetus” -- will forever change the Destiny of Humans ….

But, Arthur’s prophetic words could just as easily be describing the current, equally astonishing 21st Century revelations of an unmanned spacecraft called “Cassini,” exploring the latest baffling mysteries Saturn …. In particular -- NOT the much ballyhooed, though recently successful descent of Cassini’s Huygens probe to the surface of Titan … Saturn’s largest satellite (whose results will be involved later in our extraordinary tale …)—

But Cassini’s far lesser known, far more haunting … (and to me) far more significant— Close-ups of Iapetus!"

Hoagland (on page 4) goes on to note that the scheduled radar reflectivity studies of Iaepetus (that would have revealed the strange facets more clearly of similar kind of studies done on the Moon in the 1960s.).

Similar gravitational anomalies are mentioned by Hoagland:

The distant images immediately confirmed one curious impression left from the Voyager encounters of a quarter century before: in addition to its other unique characteristics, Iapetus does not seem to be a perfectly round moon!

A comparison with a real sphere (below-right) reveals that, from this angle, Iapetus is visibly “squashed” -- by something like 50 miles out of its 900, or about 5%. For solid rocky bodies larger than [a threshold of] a few hundred miles across [and Iapetus is 900 mi across], the relentless force of gravity always overcomes the innate tensile strength of such materials, and forces them to assume a spherical geometry. For solid icy bodies (those possessing less tensile strength), the limiting size before a sphere is formed is even smaller.

The key to defining this upper “roundness” limit lies in remotely determining a moon’s “specific gravity,” which will in turn reveal its average composition.

The means of doing this via an orbiting or passing spacecraft, is by optically measuring the object’s diameter (from images), then comparing that to its overall mass (derived from observing the effect of its gravitational field on the spacecraft’s trajectory). This mass determination, divided into the optical diameter, then gives the average density of the object – which, in turn, can narrow down its potential composition.

Earth’s Moon, for example, has an average density of “3.34” (3.34 times a similar-sized sphere composed of water) – revealing it to be composed primarily of much denser “silicates” … a rocky object. Thus, at 2160 miles across, despite the significant tensile strength of “rocks,” the Moon’s own gravity has crushed it down to almost a perfect sphere, as seen from Earth. [However, Hoagland seems unaware that there are equally strange gravitational mass anomalies at the Moon that make much about its overall specific gravity to size very strange and 'light', similar to Iapetus actually.]

For Iapetus, Voyager’s measured density (via the techniques described above) is about 1.21 – clearly only slightly denser than an equal sized body made of water (there were obviously a few rocky “impurities” incorporated into Iapteus during in its formation, slightly increasing its average density …). Because this solid, mostly icy body measures almost 900 miles across, yet rotates only once every 79 days, any equatorial “centrifugal force” is clearly insignificant. Thus, this cannot be the source of Iapetus’ major “out of roundness.”

Coupled with the density observations of Voyager (and now Cassini), these simple calculations assure that Iapetus’ basic shape (not counting pieces blown off by external comet impacts …) should be essentially a perfect sphere. Several of Saturn’s significantly smaller moons -- like Mimas and Enceladus -- although also icy objects, are [forced into] spheres ….

Clearly, for some important reason [much larger] Iapteus is not [so much gravity pressured to conform to spherical geometry despite being many times larger than smaller moons so gravity pressured already].

Hoagland notes that the ONLY data missing from public release on the whole Cassini mission roster that was in the public domain events relates to Iepetus. One particular study of Iapetus has gone down the memory hole. Though mentioned in public releases as an upcoming data analysis, the results has been hidden alone.

Instead, NASA and JPL talk avidly and exclusively about the Saturn moon Titan on the same variable analysis that Iaepetus was equally analyed upon: a radar reflectivity test that provides a lot about detailed surface features.

Everything else from the mission has been released within days if not hours after it happened...except for this Iaepetus radar reflectivity information. This test is described by Hoagland as a sure method to determine some major surface features and even slight depth composition issues. Whatever they learned about Iapetus , it's not going to be public.


Who is Arthur C. Clarke?

Clarke noted that something quite uncanny to our story was on his mind from an early age--something quite "Moon like" and "Iaepetus like", and is considered the first to do so, artificial satellites:

During the Second World War, he served in the Royal Air Force as a [first generation of its invention] radar specialist and was involved in the early warning radar defence system which contributed to the RAF's success during the Battle of Britain. He was demobilised with the rank of Flight Lieutenant. After the war, he obtained a first class degree in mathematics and physics at King's College London.

In the postwar years Clarke became involved with the British Interplanetary Society and served for a time as its chairman.

His most important contribution may be the idea that geostationary satellites would be ideal telecommunications relays. He was the first in the world to propose this in a paper privately circulated among the core technical members of the BIS in 1945. The concept was later published in Wireless World in October of that year.


Early in his career, Clarke had a fascination with the paranormal, and has stated that it was part of the inspiration for his novel Childhood's End. He has also said that he was one of several who were fooled by a Uri Geller demonstration at Birkbeck College. Although he has long since dismissed and distanced himself from nearly all pseudoscience, he still advocates research into purported instances of psychokinesis and other similar phenomena.


In the 1980s Clarke became well known to many for his television programmes Arthur C. Clarke's Mysterious World and Arthur C. Clarke's World of Strange Powers.


Clarke was the first Chancellor of the International Space University, serving from 1989 to 2004, and Chancellor of Moratuwa University, Sri Lanka, from 1979 to 2002.


In early 1998 Clarke was scheduled to be made a knight, with Prince Charles visiting Sri Lanka in order to make the investiture. Just before the ceremony, a British tabloid, The Sunday Mirror, claimed in a sensationalist story that Clarke was an avowed paedophile, giving supposed quotations from Clarke about the harmlessness of his predilection for boys. Clarke released a statement saying that "the accusations are such nonsense that I have found it difficult to treat them with the contempt that they deserve." He also said, "I categorically state that The Sunday Mirror's article is grossly defamatory and contains statements which in themselves and by innuendo are quite false, grossly inaccurate and extremely harmful." He later asked that the investiture of his knighthood be delayed "in order to avoid embarrassment to His Royal Highness the Prince of Wales during his visit to Sri Lanka." In answer to the newspaper's allegations, Clarke was investigated by Sri Lankan authorities, with the accusations eventually being dismissed. The newspaper later printed a retraction and Clarke was made a Knight Bachelor on May 26, 2000, in a ceremony in Colombo, Sri Lanka.[7][8][9]


Clarke's work is marked by an optimistic view of science empowering mankind's exploration of the solar system. His early published stories would usually feature the extrapolation of a technological innovation or scientific breakthrough into the underlying decadence of his own society.

The Sentinel (1948) introduced a religious theme to Clarke's work, a theme that he later explored more deeply in The City and the Stars. His interest in the paranormal was influenced by Charles Fort and embraced the belief that mankind may be the property of an ancient alien civilization. Surprisingly for a writer who is often held up as an example of hard science fiction's obsession with technology, three of Clarke's novels have this as a theme...Another theme of The Sentinel was the notion that the evolution of an intelligent species would eventually make them something close to gods, which was also explored in his 1953 novel Childhood's End. He also briefly touched upon this idea in Imperial Earth. This idea of transcendence through evolution seems to have been influenced by Olaf Stapledon, who wrote a number of books dealing with this theme. Clarke has said of Stapledon's 1930 book Last and First Men that "No other book had a greater influence on my life....[It] and its successor Star Maker (1937) are the twin summits of [Stapledon's] literary career".[10]


And who is Olaf Stapledon?

"His work directly influenced Arthur C. Clarke, Brian Aldiss, Stanisław Lem, C.S. Lewis and John Maynard Smith and indirectly influenced countless others, contributing so many ideas to the world of science-fiction (most of them inspired by his readings in philosophy) that they are too numerous to list. Although his work predated the appearance of the word "transhuman" in 1966, both the transhuman condition and the supermind (composed of many individual consciousnesses) form recurring themes in his work. Star Maker also contained the first known description of Dyson spheres. Freeman Dyson credits this novel with giving him the idea.

Bingo. Dyson spheres are a theme of artificial hollow worlds, basically. Sound familiar to the Moon or Iaepetus? Back to Stephenson, with two other common themes on his mind here...

"Last and First Men also featured early descriptions of genetic engineering and terraforming. Sirius describes a dog whose intelligence is increased to the level of a human being's.

His fiction often represents the strivings of some intelligence that is beaten down by an indifferent universe, and its inhabitants which, through no fault of their own, fail to comprehend these lofty yearnings. It is filled with protagonists who are tormented by the conflict between their "higher" and "lower" impulses. Last and First Men (a projected history of humanity) and Star Maker (a sketched history of the Universe) in particular were highly acclaimed by figures as diverse as J. B. Priestley, Virginia Woolf and Winston Churchill. Their philosophy repelled [Christian writer] C. S. Lewis, whose Cosmic Trilogy was written partly in response to a perceived amorality. In fact Stapledon was an agnostic who was hostile to religious institutions, but not to religious yearnings, a fact which set him at odds with H. G. Wells in their correspondence.

None of his novels or short stories have been filmed, although George Pal bought the rights to Odd John.

Together with his philosophy lectureship at the University of Liverpool (which now houses the Olaf Stapledon archive), Stapledon lectured in English literature, industrial history and psychology. He wrote many non-fiction books on political and ethical subjects, in which he advocated the growth of "spiritual values", which he defined as those values expressive of a yearning for greater awareness of the self in a larger context ("personality-in-community").

So Stapleton was close to H.G. Wells, was he?

Hoagland identifies H.G. Wells as mentally imagining and illustrating with the same kind of geodesics uncannily found on Iaepetus (and unknown to Hoagland, in some strange hexagonal 'craters' on the Moon itself). Hoagland writes:

"As I gazed at this astounding [Iaepetus faceted] image, something about it was eerily familiar ….

Then it hit me: this was the same geometric shape...that H.G. Wells – that famed Victorian science fiction writer, who also left us immortal classics like “The Time Machine,” and “The War of the Worlds” -- had proposed for his own spaceship … in “First Men In the Moon” (1901)!

(Which brings up the nagging question: what did Wells know … and how did he get wind of it ..!?)

Why call it 'in' the moon?' Because Wells' book is all about what is 'in' the moon:

"Set in England at the beginning of the 20th century, average industrialist Bedford finds himself entwined in the machinations of Cavor, an eccentric genius who has developed Cavorite, a substance that negates the pull of gravity. The two men construct a vessel called the Sphere which hurls them to the moon. But the adventurers have very different agendas. Cavor hopes to discover a utopian society he imagines living on the planet, while Bedford is purely interested in the monetary gain the trip represents (after all, everyone knows there's gold on the moon). Once they arrive, they stumble upon the world of the Selenites, insect-like, biologically engineered aliens living beneath the surface of the moon in dark, cavernous, technologically-astounding cities. Then things go drastically wrong...

Wells' envisioning of Earth's satellite is fascinating in its accuracy; a barren planet with a thin (yet breathable) atmosphere, a freezing night and very little gravity. However, when the sun rose, Wells imagined forests of trees and plants exploding to life, having a mere moon-day (which is like an Earth week) to grow, germinate and seed before the cold of the night withers them. Wells saw the possibility that the moon itself would be full of catacombs, tunnels and internal seas. The Selenite society (although Cavor humorously refers to them as "Moonies") would exist beneath the surface like an ant colony. The images he creates are briefly seen by Bedford and somewhat described later by Cavor, which Wells has cleverly done to leave the reader's imagination to paint its own picture of this underworld.

And guess who did the reissue introduction for that 1901 book? Why, it was Iaepetus-obsessed Arthur C. Clarke--the only other place in the solar system with some strange hexagonal geodesics that seem to imply artificial hollow protective moons--that neither of them could have known about. Or if they did, how could they have, then?

According to Monteith's highly documented discussion (1 hr 43 min), Wells was right in the thick of Anglo-American "NWO" plotting in the early 20th century as well.

Definitely the interpersonal links between Arthur C. Clarke, Olaf Stapledon, and H.G. Wells might be an interesting research trail...

6/23/2007 12:36:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

Great, great vibe going here, boys & girls. I have a few items for this stoned soup:

Orthogonal Multiverse Coordinate Change


Travel between different universes, or as it is known by its scientific name, an "orthogonal multiverse coordinate change", is a form of space travel. To be precise, quantum technology is used to travel to another place in the multiverse.

Our universe (or OTL) - the universe we see, the universe of rocks and trees and people and galaxies out in space - is just one of an infinite number of universes, existing side by side. Each of these universes is constantly splitting, so there is a universe where Hitler lost the war, and another where he won; a universe where Kennedy died, and another where he lived. And also a world where you brushed your teeth in the morning, and one where you didn't. And so forth, on and on and on. An infinity of worlds. There are multiple universes and they're running right alongside our own. All these multiple universes are referred to as a multiverse.

Reality is much greater than just what we see in our universe. Other universes exist and they sometimes interact with our own universe. It's the nature of the multiverse. Within the multiverse, the universes are constantly splitting, which means that many other universes are very similar to ours. And it is the similar ones that interact.

International Technology Corporation (ITC) has the technology to travel to these other universes…

Or, if you want something with a little more “authority,” try Hyperspace for Space Travel from the American Institute of Physics:


In the Theory of Relativity time is treated as a dimension. This property of time has never been completely understood and accepted because we instinctively perceive time only as a running parameter. In recent developments of the Theory of Relativity, it has been proposed to apply a coordinate transformation by which the four coordinates all acquire the dimension of space, with time defined as a running parameter related to the speed of light. The transformation formally defines the Four-Space or, using a common word for spaces with more than three dimensions, the ``Hyperspace''. Under this paradigm, the entire story of the Universe is similar to a set of nested trajectories in which our ``reality'' develops along a membrane moving through the nested trajectories at the speed of light. The new paradigm implies the existence of multiple ``parallel'' membranes, or parallel local universes or multiverses and ``crossing'' membranes, or ``orthogonal'' local Universes, which do not emerge from the plain Theory of Relativity.

In the Hyperspace everything normally travels at the speed of light, but a localized strong gravitational field, which creates a propagation speed discontinuity in Hyperspace, may allow travel to different local universes or Faster Than Light (FTL) travel within the same local universe. The collision or focusing of gravitational waves can produce effects comparable to those of short-lived black holes that can be projected into the Hyperspace to produce the required speed modification. Well known optical effects and four-dimensional rotation may also find application to Hyperspace travel.

Another route is going forward by looking into the past, which is not necessarily a von Daniken experience, since we're the aliens in this story: Ancient Technology Revisited.

Ericswan, I’m very much drawn to your view of these things. In this Ancient Tech thing they talk about space travel without spaceships; about “advanced technologies” which are actually quite simple—we just can’t see them with (or because of) our lenses. For example—and check out the resonances with previous ideas we've discussed:

Dan LaRochelle recently visited with David Hamel in Canada. Hamel claims he was shown alien technology which had been given to many prior earth 'advanced civilizations' in times of global peril and that our museums and archeological sites are replete with indications of this alien technology, yet we cannot recognize it because it does not fit in our perceptions of how the universe works. Hamel provided him with a paper that he claims very closely describes the alien technology, it is located at the end of this document.

One of the earliest forms of the Egyptian crescent now depicted as holding the solar orb. The Aten band has migrated from the center downward probably due to a lack of understanding of the principle. John Keely claimed he could use a silver, gold and platinum wire, wrapped around a mass at its equator and excited by specific vibrations which could be used to increase or decrease the weight of a mass, or dissociate it to a plasma condition, thereby liberating tremendous amounts of energy.

Tesla, copying Keely's original experiments (yet not crediting him as discoverer) used electrical currents instead of finely tuned mechanical vibrators and claimed he could place a wire around the center of the earth and cause it to move anywhere he wanted in our solar system.

Otis Carr claimed you could spin two cones, with the bases attached, to achieve levitation. Carr said you must make the outside circumference of your model rotate at a velocity faster than that of the earth at the equator.

Using a mechanical form, Victor Schauberger found that a rapidly revolving rim would produce a vortex to achieve a plasma condition that generated both levitation and thrust.

John Searl performed similar experiments using spinning magnetic disks, as has our most recent wonder-worker, David Hamel who also used wobbling/spinning magnets to concentrate power and produce gravity phenomena. And lets not forget Leedskalnin and his Coral Castle creation in Homestead, Florida.

The CRITICAL POINT here, you don't have to have all of our high technology to produce the phenomena, you can use basic items as found in nature or requiring only slight modification. The phenomena is achieved by understanding HOW AETHER WORKS and can be manipulated by compression, rarefaction or deflection.

Gradual evolution of the crescent to the stylized versions as the basis of the technology was forgotten or lost. Priests and secretive groups kept the information to themselves for control or out of fear of what would be done with the technology by the more barbaric factions of society, a fear that I have no doubt exists today in similar groups.

Okay, so this is the Talbott Ship of Heaven stream, which connects with the Electric Universe stuff that Mark has linked before, as well as all that Book of Enoch stuff. Another place that seeks the connections between these ideas is, especially The Celestial Sea and the Ark of Heaven. Tracy is one strange kitten, though. She started publishing “occultish” ramblings at age 16—she was the force behind Dagobert’s Revenge, for example, and is very heavily into all that Holy Blood, Holy Grail stuff.

Don’t know how much I believe what she writes, but she certainly is interesting. The Unified Field Theory of Dagobert’s Revenge gives a quick overview of her Merovingian leanings, while Blasphemy and Treason: The Influence of Islamic Law on Western Societies reveals her extreme bias against Muslims in general and her apparent acceptance of the FoxNews Clash of Civilization circus, which is enough to drive me away, but there are some gleams in there, between her strange and vaguely Nazi-like rantings.

Another, less messy view of the ancient, spaceship-less tech idea can be had (if you’re very careful!) at Chronos Apollonios' Home On Olympus: Magic, Science And Imagination Blending Into Light And Hope (Possible Resources For World Improvement). I’d recommend just sticking to the following links initially, since it gets really sticky once you step off the path:

Ancient Egyptian Wisdom, the Magick That Is Science, Part One

The Magick That Is Science, Part Two

Palingenics: The Ancient Egyptian Alchemic Phoenix and Time-Reversal Science

Tutankhamen's Nebris: Ancient Egyptian Anti-Gravity

Solar Science: Mystical Vedic Science in Egypt

Star Way: Ancient Knowledge of Atoms and Molecules (with Egyptian examples)

The reason I list these links is because this guy’s stuff is a morass, full of broken links, weird dead-ends and redundancies, etc. There’s one page, for example, that’s very tantalizing--Part Two of "Tutankhamen's Broom" and Ancient Anti-Gravity and Free Energy Page, but the link is broken (

Another route is through the moderns rediscovering this stuff, as seen in the example of Genius Inventor: The controversy about the work of Randell Mills, America's Newton, in historical and contemporary context, by Thomas E. Stolper, which is a lot more like RI-type stuff. A sample, from the Amazon review:

"Ignoring Mills and supporting Podkletnov was a classic example of how large outfits evaluate risks. They want incremental innovations that sustain existing programs, not major innovations that disrupt them. If Podkletnov-type antigravity work succeeded, then NASA would still be doing rocketry, and everything at NASA would go on much as before, though its work load would be a little lighter (pun intended). If Mills-type anti-gravity work succeeded, then NASA would enter upon its golden age, but at the price of organizational upheaval."

"Political reporters and foreign correspondents can go and check the assertions of top officials for themselves. Science writers can't do that with quantum theory or relativity theory or most other topics in science. They have to choose whom to believe, and nine hundred and ninety-nine times out of a thousand, the established authorities in science provide the best guidance. The Mills affair was worse than unusual. It was unprecedented in living memory, and situations without precedent are always hard to deal with."

"According to (Jonathan) Phillips, the bias against Mills' ideas was so strong that the Journal of Physics D wouldn't even send the line-broadening manuscript out for review in 2003, because, an editor said, the journal feared that reviewers would recommend publication."

In Stolper's closing remarks:

"Science is a candle in the dark, just as Carl Sagan said. It must be guarded and tended, because its flame is not yet as bright or steady as most scientists think or as the leaders of science would have us believe. The winds of obscurantism are still strong, and the surrounding darkness is vast indeed. Mills has lit a new candle, one that may in time become a beacon. The efforts of those who would hide its light under a bushel or snuff it out entirely need to be countered."

Sounds about par-for-the-course to me.

(Mark, do you know of this Stolper/Mills thing? Or, how Jonathon Swift might fit into the prophetic writer's guild? Bibhas De is also among that company, btw...)

6/23/2007 02:24:00 PM  
Blogger Dr. Bombay said...

As usual your timing is impeccable, Drudge is reporting
today-6/23- that a British airline
crew is reporting a "near miss"
event with a UFO "a mile wide".
I agree with Stanton that UFO's
are not just "nut and bolts" but
I am also convinced that they have
to show us a "material" form to
convince us that they "exist".

6/23/2007 07:47:00 PM  
Blogger Dr. Bombay said...

My mistake. It was Dr. Allen Hynek
that was quoted in Jeffs article.
RE: "UFO's are not just nuts and
bolts". All apoligies...

6/23/2007 07:56:00 PM  
Blogger ericswan said...

Mark... Wells is a key in the puzzle but this futuristic treatment by him points to NWO origins and implementation that requires it's incorporation into his motives, associations and his time frame predjudice. The link is to an e-book thay lays out H.G. Wells time travelling perogative for the new world order.

6/24/2007 12:23:00 AM  
Blogger ericswan said...

Dr. Bombay and IC.

Carr revisited..

6/24/2007 12:53:00 AM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...


Again, thanks—that was the perfect link! As slow-motion as this dialogue is (and as ill-attended), I have the distinct impression that some sort of progress, some crystallization of ideas is occurring. The notion which Dr. Bombay echoes—that spacecraft are not entirely nuts & bolts—fits in perfectly with the metal of Carr’s space-disc turning to a jello-ish consistency when it crosses that resonant threshold.

Likewise, Ring talking about the mechanics of propulsion being two-fold, based on a Schaubergerian/Pythagorean copying of Nature—working with it, emulating it, instead of forcing it, blasting through it with our phallic dominance rockets—and also on the tuning of consciousness onto a wavelength of “right thought” makes perfect sense. In fact, if you think about it, these two prerequisites for this type of time and material melding space travel are also ultimately connected. It’s squaring the circle, after all, which can be approached from both the workman’s bench and the philosopher’s barstool.

One of the reasons that the school of thought which promotes consciousness as an agent of creation is attacked (or, more usually, summarily dismissed) is that it’s viewed as anthropocentric—how can puny man create universes by observing them? (Even the proponents of this theory call it--mistakenly, I think--the Anthropic principle.)

What if it were the other way around—what if we were really helping to create universes by becoming one with them?

Letting go of our personal, ego-driven appetites & attachments in order to tune in to the music of the spheres…and in so doing creating realities like teleportational travel.

All this is the opposite of the technology & science which Goethe, Steiner, Tesla, Keely, Schauberger & Tolkien hated—the Ahrimanic principle. Now, in this little lecture, our friend Mr. Steiner lays out a dialectic between the Luciferic and Ahrimanic principles, which he insists must be reconciled and balanced by what he calls the Christ impulse, but this is exactly what these “opponents of Ahriman" have done. They are not Luciferians, they do not wallow in excessive, uncontrollable paroxysms of shallow spirituality…they seek balance, proportion and harmony. Again, squaring the circle. What better metaphor for this than Carr & Schauberger’s countervailing, counter-rotating forces lifting us, freeing us from gravity and the illusion of time?

I’m going to recommend one more thing here, Harmony and Proportion by John Boyd-Brent. It’s the story of finding the geometry of Spirit through the study of the geometry of Nature. (The links you find there will take you even further.)

Btw, did you notice, ericswan, that Ring went out in the desert of Arizona and sort of accidentally built himself a round, energy independent house…as a way to recover from the raiding & suppressing of The Cartel? It’s no wonder that Wells feared the saucers and that the suppressed tech itself does not profit the worldkillers (althought its suppression certainly does)—they are inherently unbalanced, as all hell-bound creatures are. I just read this morning, in my aliens in medieval Germany sci-fi, of all places, that Jesus said, "Do not be afraid" more often than anything else. Isn't it interesting that those who claim His mantle nowadays tell us the opposite every chance they get?

(Mark, in case you were wondering about those references to Swift & De, Swift predicted Martian moons, while De predicted Uranian Rings--an astronomical first, in that his prediction was based on a theoretical projection...)

6/24/2007 11:53:00 AM  
Blogger ericswan said...

I wonder if the Masons have figured out the squaring of the circle with their compass and square symbolism. If they ever ask you what the G stands <4> don't tell them.

6/24/2007 01:54:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

The Burning Taper ponders just that question. Why, if they had this hermetic knowledge, wouldn't they take it out of the jar for the good of all? Who's afraid of open source, anyway?

This guy tries to paint their "reticence" in more sympathetic colors, but then he's (supposedly) one of them...

Maybe a better path is to just ignore these jabloons and look at it like HyperFlight does, from the perspective of the QUANTUM PYTHAGOREANS, as they call themselves.

(HyperFlight is brainfood that won't make a head fat, nor a fathead.)

6/24/2007 02:33:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

I seem to have futzed one of those HyperFlight links. The correct path & link (or at least the one I was looking for) went something like this:

"The circle cannot be made into the exact square and that's the beginning and the end. Hey, it's the alpha and the omega of science."

-- Okay. That means that 'straight' and 'curved' are not the same. Therefore, 'straight' & 'curved' are absolute parameters and are not subject to convention. Still, that's just the beginning of the squaring of the circle. Between the alpha and the omega there is a tau.

6/24/2007 02:41:00 PM  
Blogger Mark said...

"(Mark, do you know of this Stolper/Mills thing? Or, how Jonathon Swift might fit into the prophetic writer's guild? Bibhas De is also among that company, btw...)....Mark, in case you were wondering about those references to Swift & De, Swift predicted Martian moons, while De predicted Uranian Rings--an astronomical first, in that his prediction was based on a theoretical projection...)"

Thanks, I never heard of that Mills guy.

You said yourself that Swift could have taken it from Kepler. So I don't that that was a prediction or 'prophecy' as you said. Swift drew his material from satire of others. I don't know much about Swift personally though. (And Kepler was a real nut--he probably murdered Tycho Brahe to get his star charts....)

That Bibhas De guy, as you said, was just making a theoretical prediction--which in itself is interesting--though it's not really a 'prophecy'.

What was odd about Clarke's predictions unlike these others is that they were very observationally accurate without having any theoretical basis. In other words, someone assuredly knew about Iapetus and told Clarke--long before humans got there with Voyager or Cassini probes?

Or secondly, it implies Clarke (with his interest in the paranormal) may have gotten the information channeled to him somehow by a medium--or, with his little wry smile that always seems to be saying to me, "I'm holding a hell of a lot back from everyone," he may be prescient himself. Clarke always looks to me like the cat has his tongue. It's interesting Clarke "started out in the top," in top secret British radar installations. How do you do that, unless you are sponsored in the first place as a person before you get your technical radar knowledge? His whole family might be interesting to peruse, or he seems a vehicle for someone else's ideas passed to him.

And by the way Iapetus was the father of Prometheus. I guess Cassini gave it that name:


Discovered By
G.D. Cassini

Date of Discovery

Here's Hoagland's view once more where he gets into implications of propulsion of such a fake moon:

If Iapetus is a modified moon/spacecraft, developed by an advanced interplanetary/interstellar civilization … then it is foreordained to have embodied physics and engineering far beyond of any current capabilities or even theories.

Ergo: it was NOT propelled by “rockets.”

If Einstein’s UFT ideas, or any of the modern variants which have evolved -- from super strings to M-brane theory – can ultimately be engineered into workable technologies for literally bending space and time ... then, all bets are off. Anything could be waiting inside Iapetus … if we return.

Only one thing now seems clear:

Whoever designed it, for whatever ultimate objective, if our “insider” physicist is correct in observing “…one way of thinking of an antigravity device is to think of it as an unusual form of electrical motor …”, then the mystery of Iapetus ~60,000-foot-high“wall” may now be close to resolution—

As the massive field coils of a world-sized, anti-gravity propulsion system ... which may have literally carried Iapetus between the stars … setting in motion a series of extraordinary events, stretching across literally billions of ensuing years …

If that is true, then its very name – “Iapetus” … the father of Prometheus, the “maker of Mankind” --- is eerie foreshadowing of all we might one day confirm ….

Could that stark possibility – that, in Iapetus, we are confronting our very origins …

Who gives a little moon off Saturn such a starkly loaded name 'without knowing' about it, much less able to see it much?

Cassini discovered and I guess named Iapetus. The current probe moving in gravitational arcs around Saturn right now lets remember is called Cassini--even though they aren't publicly revealing the juicy stuff about Iapetus currently...

And occult family sort of jumps to mind when you notice this decided 'induction' form of father to son over four generations in the same line of work, as well as his 'start' in astrology. I'll post something else about this later.

6/24/2007 03:21:00 PM  
Blogger ericswan said...

Hippocrates did some geometry a while back..

Interesting thing about his working formula was that it survived. If memory serves, his parchment was found in a monastary underneath some psalms. All in the interests of conserving paper mind you. The discovers did a show that used different frequencies of light to look through the friars good works to find Hippcrates work underneath. His basic premis was the three sided figure to a four sided figure up to the 16 sided figure (or more???) than join all the outside dots to make a circle. As the link above points out, this never quite makes it but then "tolerance" is mostly what it's all about anyway.

Now for something really bizarre. I woke up to some sort of kafuffle going on and just barely opened my eyes without raising my head to see a bit of petrified wood that has been worked into a library shelf as part of the decor. I had to look past several other objects that were closer to see this piece of rock vibrating wildly above and below where it sits on my nighttable. I looked at this thing happening for 15 seconds noting that nothing else on the table was going out of focus and closed my eyes for a bit than opened them to see that this petrified piece of wood was still doing this extreme vibration where half of this 5 inch piece went above and below the table. I honestly tried to focus my one eye and make this go away but the situation remained the same. Everything else was normal on the table but this rock was vibrating several inches up and down. Oh well, the light wasn't that great anyway. It may have happened yesterday as it was the morning after I posted the Ring video and before I read your "jello" post.

6/24/2007 06:08:00 PM  
Blogger Mark said...

VOICEOVER: "Meanwhile, back in Gotham City..."

WTC7 Security Official Details Explosions Inside Building

The Alex Jones show today welcomed Loose Change creators Dylan Avery and Jason Burmas to discuss an exclusive interview they have conducted with an individual with high level security clearance who was inside the Office of Emergency Management in World Trade Center 7 [who was looking for Giuliani--though G already got the word on the building being soon to be detonated. The WTC7 security guy looking for Giuliani]...has described and detailed explosions [when he was] inside the building prior to the collapse of any of the buildings at ground zero on 9/11. [i.e., he's talking WTC7 internal preparatory explosions before 9:59 a.m. 9-11-01--same as other witnesses to internal preparatory explosions for WTC1 and WTC2 long before their complete detonations.]

The interview, to be featured in the forthcoming Final Cut of Loose Change is currently under wraps but the creators have allowed some details to leak purely to protect themselves and the individual involved who has asked to remain anonymous until the film is released.

We can reveal that the individual concerned was asked to report to building seven with a city official after the first attack [at 8:46 a.m.] on the North tower but before the second plane hit the South Tower [at 9:02:52 a.m.] and before their eventual collapse [WTC2 at 9:59 a.m.; WTC1 at 10:28 a.m.--WTC6 actually detonated at 9:03/9:04 a.m. during melee of WTC2 hit by plane in that one minute].

[He was going into WTC7 then] in order to provide the official with access to different floors of the building.

The city official he was escorting was attempting to reach Rudy Guiliani, who he had determined was inside building 7 at that time [which was untrue--wonder who told him to go there then? Maybe that official was actually sent into the WTC7 to be killed along with the WTC7 security guy (similar to sadistic guilty party for 9-11 Jerome Hauer of OEM hiring John O'Neill as head of security for WTCs, with O'Neill's first day of job to be 9-11-01). O'Neill died in the melee. However, the WTC7 security guy survived.].

According to Avery and Burmas this official [that was seemingly sent into the WTC7 to kill him or just complete miscommunication] now works for Guiliani partners.

The individual was also asked to provide access to the Office Of Emergency Management on the 23rd floor of the building, this was the so called "bunker" that was built inside WTC7 on the orders of Rudy Guiliani [and organized by Jerome Hauer, who hired O'Neill. Bunker only operational from 1999.]

When he got there he found the office evacuated and after making some calls was told to leave immediately.

[THE INTERESTING POINT HERE IS THAT THE BUNKER as the demolition cockpit as a theory seems to have been discredited--so it would have to be somewhere else, perhaps the top of the Woolworth Building--which leads to Bo Dietl and the Bush family's private covert op security teams that had been trusted to do Bush family personal security operations before. Bo Dietl accidentally admitted on Fox News he was "down there" near the Towers on 9-11. Bo Dietl has additionally admitted working construction on the WTCs back in the 1970s.]

It was at this point that he witnessed a bomb going off inside the building [between 8:46 and 9:03 a.m. in WTC7]:

"We subsequently went to the stairwell and were going down the stairs, when we reached the sixth floor, the landing that we were standing on gave way, there was an explosion and the landing gave way. I was left there hanging, I had to climb back up and now had to walk back up to the eighth floor. After getting to the eighth floor everything was dark." [So explosions were taking out the ways up or down, and thus any accidental witnesses capacities to escape.]

The individual in a second clip detailed hearing further explosions and then described what he saw when he got down to the lobby:

"It was totally destroyed, it looked like King Kong had been through it and stepped on it and it was so destroyed i didn't know where I was. It was so destroyed that had to take me out through a hole in the wall, a makeshift hole I believe the fire department made to get me out."

[This is the same concussion explosions without fire that was occurring to destroy the lobbies/elevators of WTC1 (and basements with the 8:46 a.m. hit) and WTC2 (basements with the 9:03 a.m. hit)--thus the same lobby (perhaps basements) explosions were done on WTC7 between these two hits.]

He was then told by firefighters to get twenty blocks away from the area because explosions were going off all over the World Trade Center complex.

The key to this information is that the individual testifies this all happened BEFORE either tower collapsed, thus building 7 was at that point completely undamaged from any falling debris or resulting fires. It also means that explosions were witnessed in WTC7 up to eight hours before its collapse at around 5.30pm.

listen to the clips here.

Avery and Burmas, who played the two short clips of the interview prior to further analysis and more clips to be played on their own GCN radio show later tonight at 7pm CST, further described how the individual had witnessed dead bodies in the lobby of 7 and was told by the police not to look at them.

This is vital information be cause it is in direct conflict with the official claim that no one was killed inside building 7. The 9/11 Commission report did not even mention building 7, yet here we have a key witness who told them he saw dead people inside the building after explosions had gutted the lower level.

What makes all this information even more explosive is the fact that this individual was interviewed by the 9/11 Commission as they conducted their so-called investigation.

The fact that the building was not even mentioned in the report in light of this information thus becomes chilling and indicates that officials have lied in stating that they have not come into contact with evidence of explosive devices within the buildings.

Avery and Burmas successfully contacted the individual after discovering a TV interview he did on 9/11 while they were trawling through news footage from the day in research for the Final Cut.

Avery says that he can and will prove beyond any shadow of doubt that the individual was in building 7 on 9/11 and that what he is saying is accurate."


I'd love to see that original video clip of the WTC7 security officer talking to the media live on about explosions in his building on 9-11.

6/24/2007 10:25:00 PM  
Blogger CuriosityShop said...

Wow, the twists and turns throughout the comments of these past two posts.

You guys have given me so much homework reading assignments! Barely keep up, I was still back reading about the scientist who invented the water fueled car and zing now look where you are.

So I am just going to have to jump in here, so this is going to sound jelloish. But ...

By Mary Anne Weaver

Copyright (c) 1999 by Delphi Technologies

For a number of years now, researcher and former NASA consultant Richard C. Hoagland of the Enterprise Mission, has observed what he has identified as a "pattern" in star positions at the time of NASA launches and/or landings. He published his discovery a few years ago as an article entitled "Kennedy's Grand NASA Plan", and has since written many more articles and performed extensive research into this topic. Later on, Mike Bara, an Aerospace design engineer with many years experience in his field, joined the research effort into this stellar alignment phenomenon and has assisted Richard Hoagland in investigating its attributes and the frequency of its occurrence.

Both Richard Hoagland and Michael Bara note that specific stars are found at particular elevations above the horizon, namely 19.5 and 33.0 degrees but also directly on the horizon and meridian, at the precise moment of a NASA launch or landing. Since 1996, Michael Bara and Richard Hoagland have done considerable research into the "star alignment" theory and posted a large amount of data. Also since that time and based on copious research into this topic, they have proposed a number of theories to account for this phenomenon.

I don't propose to answer the "what does it mean" question in this article. I felt it important to determine first, if there a solid scientific basis for Richard Hoagland's hypothesis that these alignments form a pattern. If so, this solid foundation will provide the basis for asking and finding the answers to more questions, such as "what does it mean?"

Because of my interest in the space program, and because NASA launches and events lend themselves more easily to statistical analysis (since there are a set number of them), I decided I would limit myself to analyzing NASA events (launches, and mission activities). My task, then, was to determine numerically whether or not these NASA alignments occur more often than random chance; and if so, how much more. If there were quite a few more alignments than random chance would allow, then this could be an indication that a pattern was being followed, if all the right factors were present.

To do this, I first had to develop a correct model of the odds. For those readers who wish to view the scientific method and proofs in detail, read my technical paper. Otherwise, this summary will mention in less detail what I did and what I found.

In order to correctly model the odds, I had to come up with a simplified and restricted version of the Hoagland "star alignment model." This was for the sake of consistency, and meant to be a preliminary investigation that could catch at least some of these repetitive 19.5 and 33.0 degree star alignments.

A Brief Review of the Hoagland "Star Alignment Model"

The Hoagland "star alignment model" angle selections are based on tetrahedral geometry; specifically, a tetrahedron inscribed inside of a sphere. The circumscribed tetrahedron is descriptive of a kind of "hyperdimensional physics," which is simply a physics that takes higher (thus unseen!) spatial dimensions into account. I will not get into detail about the theory here, but rather summarize it briefly so that the reader will understand the basis of the related Hoagland/Bara star alignment work.

Hoagland's original "hyperdimensional physics" theory states that "rotation," such as that of a planet on its own axis, creates higher-dimensional dynamic forces inside a planet, which ultimately conform to a specific 3-D geometry; as a result, phenomena appear on the planets' surfaces in accordance with the geometric contact points of that geometry -- two interlaced 3-D tetrahedra inscribed inside a sphere. The lowest order touch points of these circumscribed tetrahedra (beside the poles of rotation) are at approximately 19.5 degrees, North and South latitude.

Go read the rest put together by a statistician who ended up going through the looking glass. And yes there is a pattern.

Researchers say there might be tiny versions of galactic giants throughout Milky Way
Keay Davidson, Chronicle Science Writer

Friday, June 9, 2006

Researchers have proposed a bizarre new theory that our solar system might be the home of thousands of very small black holes -- that is, pint-size versions of the weirdest objects in the universe.

If verified by a NASA satellite scheduled for launch next year, their claim might overturn orthodox ideas about nature and the universe. In particular, it could dramatically reinforce physicists' growing suspicion that the cosmos is pervaded by invisible alternate dimensions, never-never lands that cannot be detected with existing instruments.

Black holes are collapsed stars whose gravity is so intense that nothing can escape them, not even light -- hence the adjective "black." So far, there is strong evidence for only one type of black hole: the huge kind that inhabits deep space, millions of light-years from Earth. One example is a titanic black hole that is sucking up nearby stars at the core of the Milky Way. Scientists know the black hole is there because the galactic core is emitting intense radiation -- the death cry of devoured stars.

But black holes, like shoes, might come in different sizes. Physicists have speculated that very small black holes might have formed after the Big Bang that spawned our cosmos more than 13 billion years ago, then vaporized like dew drops after sunrise.

Now, researchers Charles Keeton at Rutgers University and Arlie Petters at Duke University have proposed that throughout the cosmos, very small black holes might have survived to the present day. Thousands of them could be drifting around our solar system like dust motes in an old house.

They base their claim on their interpretation of one of the hottest ideas in theoretical physics: "braneworld" theory, a distant cousin of string theory.

"Brane" is short for membrane. To greatly oversimplify: According to string theory, matter ultimately consists of infinitesimally tiny, vibrating strings of energy. A harp or guitar produces different sounds when its wires vibrate at different frequencies; likewise, a string of energy turns into different subatomic particles according to its vibrational rate. In brane theory, string theory is broadened to include multidimensional, vibrating membranes that are believed to pervade the cosmos.

I continue to find the internet strange and mysterious. When I'm doing what I call free surfing, the most magical things seem to happen. Perhaps because I lean way over towards magical thinking I am just reinforcing my own self. Don't know, don't really care I guess, just love the hell out of it when it happens.

I have been zooming around reading about the scientist who invented a supposedly real water car from the links you guys left on Jeff’s previous post. And who died mysteriously. Many say murdered. (have forgotten his name information overload ) But remembered that movie with Keanu Reeves and Morgan Freeman called Chain Reaction filmed right here in Chicago. And I'll be damned but that movie seems totally based on this scientist. But that movie came out prior to his death.

Then with a deep intake of breath, I for some reason remembered one of my all time favorite, breath taking, mind expanding, magical thinking Sci Fi novels -

Rendezvous with Rama.

And I'll be damned if it is not in production for release in 2009, being produced by Morgan Freeman who says it is one of his all time favorite stories.

I'll be damned, I say, I love the internet and I love magical thinking! And here you guys are talking about Arthur Clarke!
and if you meander around in here long enough and go take a look at O'Neill cylinders, wow! And of course click on the link that describes Rama, the giant cyclindrical world………

I know it sounds weird but it's like the universe is interacting with us.

Dr Bombay that UFO sighting that for some reason the mainstream press is all excited about happened at the end of April. And they are just now reporting it. Why now? Even Fox News is discussing it

(here’s something I wrote for the forum I post at in APRIL)
A very rare earthquake in Great Britain yesterday rattled a bunch of folks ( )
Funny catchy name I think –
HG Wells (1866–1910) lived at Sandgate to the west of the town, and brought many famous authors of the day to the town. Local sporting hero Jerry Hughes who is currently starting his nfl career with the Kent Exiles. Charles Dickens lived at Albion Villas in the 1850s while writing Little Dorritt, and had previously been a visitor to the town. Wilkie Collins stayed with Dickens during this time, according to Fr. Arthur Tooth, the Ritualist priest, was a curate of St. Mary's from 1865–1868. Other people who have connections with Folkestone are June Brown of EastEnders fame, David Tomlinson, the actor famous for appearing in several Disney films (Bedknobs and Broomsticks, Mary Poppins), Dr Stephen Rayner, who is currently at the forefront of the fight to find a medical cure for stupidity, and Michael Bentine, one-time Goon. Noel Redding, bass player of The Jimi Hendrix Experience was born and lived here, likewise Pete Kircher, a rock drummer whose career has included stints with Redding, and later The Honeybus and Status Quo. Yet another, heavy rock/metal musician Folkestone area based since the mid nineties, is the ex (IRON MAIDEN), (SAMSON) Drummer Thunderstick Infamous for wearing a mask and playing in a cage ?!?!
And they have a famous racecourse where the Tour De France is coming.

And just odd isn't it, that right before the earthquake - UFOs were sighted -

And on to Jules Verne mysteries
Journey to the center of the earth – entire book online

But here is where it all gets funky and entangled universe indeed
Da Vinci Code and Jules Verne

Rennes le Chateau is surrounded by a few places of interest:

- the castle of Blanchefort (?Blanca fort? in old French meant "white castle"); some have claimed that the 6th Grand Master of the Templars, Bertrand de Blanchefort (or Blanquefort) was born there.

- Rennes les Bains (a second "Rennes") located a few miles east of Rennes le Chateau; it is an old town with several hot springs where people bathe in to get healthier. A local old legend claims that one of the springs was called the Queen's Bath because Queen Blanche of Castille (King Louis IX's mother) made several visits there. The Queen's Bath is known for its water which is salty and smells like sulphur.

- and finally Bugarach Peak, the highest mountain of the area; it is located exactly to the east of the castle of Montsegur some fifty miles away.

In 1897, Jules Verne, the famous 19th century science fiction writer, published a novel called "Clovis Dardentor". It wasn't one of his most well known novel, but the story is very puzzling.

First the title is interesting: Clovis was the name of one of the first Merovingian kings. The plot of the novel is about the hunt for a treasure. It doesn't take place in France but curiously near the city of Oran in Algeria.

At some point the heroes of the story find themselves at the old castle of Blanca (... Blancafort?...). Surprised

In the novel, a certain place is described; it is located near an Algerian town and called the Queen's Bath. Jules Verne specified that the water of the spring was salty and smelled like sulphur (... Rennes les Bains?...). Surprised

And finally the name of the main heroe of the story is "Captain Bugarach"! Surprised

The similarity between the names of the novel and the names of the locations near Rennes le Chateau is too obvious to be a coincidence.

The connection between Rennes le Chateau and the Merovingians didn't come to light until the early 1970s. That was when Pierre Plantard and Jean-Luc Chaumeil started spreading their stories and ultimately inspired Henry Lincoln, Michael Baigent and Richard Leigh to write "Holy Blood, Holy Grail". So how could Jules Verne have known about the connections between Rennes le Chateau and the Merovingians some 80 years earlier?

His allusions to the Merovingians, to a treasure in the camouflaged region of Rennes are very intriguing... Some have said that Jules Verne belonged to a secret brotherhood. Could it explain his interest for the region of Rennes le Chateau? Did his brotherhood already know of the existence of a treasure and of its link with the Merovingians?

The most puzzling thing is that ?Clovis Dardentor? was published in 1897, the very same year abbot Berenger Sauniere restored the church dedicated to Mary Magdalene in Rennes le Chateau.

A few years earlier, in 1892, Sauniere had made the discovery of a crypt under the church. It contained the tombs of the lords of Rennes, a key element of the secret that apparently made him rich. Right after that, the priest went to Paris. Did Berenger Sauniere meet Jules Verne in Paris and tell him about his discovery?

Here is a link to the Clovis Dardentor story online. - Unfortunately it’s in French. But there are the illustrations from the book . Enlarge the first one by clicking

Now what the hell? A giant sphere or barrel being rotated by? And a zillion other things going on in this illustration.

Puzzles within puzzles.

(geez I think I won the prize for longest comment, sorry)

6/25/2007 12:37:00 AM  
Blogger Mark said...

No apologies, no worries, CuriosityShop, thanks for the details. Particularly this, which I think I can add a dimension to (no pun intended):

"The connection between Rennes le Chateau and the Merovingians didn't come to light until the early 1970s. That was when Pierre Plantard and Jean-Luc Chaumeil started spreading their stories and ultimately inspired Henry Lincoln, Michael Baigent and Richard Leigh to write "Holy Blood, Holy Grail". So how could Jules Verne have known about the connections between Rennes le Chateau and the Merovingians some 80 years earlier? His allusions to the Merovingians, to a treasure in the camouflaged region of Rennes are very intriguing... Some have said that Jules Verne belonged to a secret brotherhood. Could it explain his interest for the region of Rennes le Chateau? Did his brotherhood already know of the existence of a treasure and of its link with the Merovingians? The most puzzling thing is that "Clovis Dardentor" was published in 1897, the very same year abbot Berenger Sauniere restored the church dedicated to Mary Magdalene in Rennes le Chateau..."

Fascinating. Hmm. Verne might be part of "A.A."--seemingly like Sauniere and other royalist supportive Christian/occult/Martinist mystical groups.

Rennes les Bains has an interesting story, told well in this book which will highlight continuity issues of a secret society called "Angelicus" or A.A. as a continuation of the (French outlawed, under Richileu) St. Sacrement--the previous iteration was supposedly connected to teaching adepts alchemy under cover of monasteries and private castles. One of the main castles was entirely leveled by Cardinal Richelieu when St. Sacrement was outlawed.

There are very old catacomb areas beneath a church in this area of Rennes les Baines that run like a thread through much of this St. Sacrement into (Sauniere era) A.A.:

See this book on the "A.A.":

The Secret Vault: The Secret Societies' Manipulation of Sauniere And the Secret Sanctuary of Notre-Dame-de-Marceille (2006)

I put an image of the back of the book's summary there.

In a quick search for "Verne Martinist", I found someone that IC mentioned just above (Tracy R. Twyman) reposting something about the potential of it, in an interview with a co-author of a book called Web of Gold, on her site:

DR: Do the Martinists still embrace the concept of Synarchy?

GP: It is very difficult to compare the original Martinism with the later groups, often the result of splits or natural evolution, that carry the name, such as the OMS - Ordre Matiniste Synarchique. I certainly cannot reply for all Martinists, but it would be fair to say that many of those drawn to Martinism would probably support some sort of Synarchic model.

DR: Is it likely that Jules Verne was initiated into the secrets of the Merovingian Dynasty, and if so, by whom?

GP: I wouldn’t want to comment on the extent of Verne’s involvement with the Merovingian cause or associated sects, as I have never seen any direct proof. However, from his novel Clovis Dardentor, it appears that he was aware of the legends of treasure in the Corbieres and its possible link with the displaced Merovingian kings. Whether the allusion to these themes in his book is artistic license or insider knowledge is open to debate.


Let's recall Verne wrote about subterranean worlds as well as St. Yves talked of subteranean 'masters' and is claimed to be the first to introduce the concept that was spun by Blavatsky and later went into the Nazi movement elites as a major belief (Himmler carried around the Bhagavad Gita in his S.S. uniform (looking to use it as a model to create the 'perfect caste society for the world with Germans on top'), and even sent off German research and exploration teams to find the Tibetan masters, search for the 'racial evidence' in the current population, and seek entranced to Shambala. Thus was the priorities of the Reich.

Since the concept of Agarttha was introduced, a large number of books has been written using the idea of subterranean worlds. The most famous are perhaps H. G. Wells’ The Time Machine, Jules Verne’s Journey to the Center of the Earth, and Edgar Rice Burroughs’ Pellucidar series. Others (listed in Godwin) include: George Sand’s Laura, ou le voyage dans le crystal (Laura, or the voyage in the Crystal); Edgar Allen Poe’s The Narrative of Arthur Gordon Pym; Alexandre Dumas’ Isaac Laquédem; Bulwer Lytton’s The Coming Race, Jules Verne’s Le Sphinx des glaces (The Sphinx of the Ice); William Bradshaw’s The Goddess of Atvatabar (1892), Robert Ames Bennet’s Thyra, a Romance of the Polar Pit (1901), and Willis George Emerson’s The Smoky God (1908).

In 1871, Edward George Bulwer Lytton, the author of The Last Days of Pompeii (1834), wrote the novel, Vril, The Power of the Coming Race, about a subterranean world.

"Vril" is a mysterious energy used by Lytton's subterranean race -- refugees from the deluge that submerged Atlantis -- to power their advanced civilization. Generations of occultists have mistaken this bit of business for something other than fiction; and still more generations of science fiction writers have recycled the novel's plot. Vril is a book of strong interest to anyone doing a scholarly study of the evolution of SF; it's also a novel well worth reading in its own right. Vril, The Coming Race, an early science-fiction work, with its superman race the Vril-ya descended from the same ancestors as the great Aryan family, from which in varied streams has flowed the dominant civilization of the world spawned a occult secret society known as the Vril Society or Luminous Lodge - its philosophy and swastika symbol profoundly influenced the Nazis."

[book review: "Vril" is a mysterious energy used by Lytton's subterranean race -- refugees from the deluge that submerged Atlantis -- to power their advanced civilization. Generations of occultists have mistaken this bit of business for something other than fiction; and still more generations of science fiction writers have recycled the novel's plot. Vril is a book of strong interest to anyone doing a scholarly study of the evolution of SF; it's also a novel well worth reading in its own right....The Coming Race, an early science-fiction work, with its superman race the Vril-ya descended from the same ancestors as the great Aryan family, from which in varied streams has flowed the dominant civilization of the world spawned a occult secret society known as the Vril Society or Luminous Lodge - its philosophy and [sun symbol] swastika symbol profoundly influenced the Nazis.]

It is in this novel that Lord Lytton introduced the concept of Vril power. [And the uber-Nazi secret society Vril of the same name, of course in the Third Reich. About that book:

After more than two decades of painstaking research, this book unveils the darkest innermost secrets and history of a secret Nazi occult order. The veil surrounding this most secret and legendary was impenetrable until now, and the reality is even stranger than the wildest dreams or blackest nightmares. The Vril Society counted among their minions the black adepts Adolf Hitler and Heinrich Himmler. More than any other secret society or occult order, the Vril Society influenced the history of the world. The godmen of the Vril Society sought to rule a world where enslaved subhumans would toil beneath the purple flames of the black sun and serve the arcane purposes of a master race. From the stupendous Atlantis technologies to the most secret occult rituals, theirs was the universe to conquer and subjugate. About the Author: Theo Paijmans is a Dutch researcher into secret societies and suppressed inventions. He is the author of John Worrell Keely: Free Energy Pioneer. He lives in Amsterdam.]

Alec Maclennon relates the interesting note that “In a biography, The Life of Edward Bulwer, First Lord Lytton, by his son the Earl of Lytton (1913), we are told that when he was only eight he announced one day to his bemused mother: ‘Mamma, are you not sometimes overcome by your sense of your own identity?’” Victoria Page (in Shambhala) describes Vril as a sort of “terrestrial Kundalini.” She writes, “The nature of the spirit that animates the earth, “subtle, omnipresent, yet ever indefinable in terms of the dimensions apparent to our senses,” says [John] Michell [writing in Earth Spirit], ‘forms the ultimate problem for modern physicists as it did for their predecessors, the magicians….Yet we can be certain that this force, formerly identified with the holy spirit, provided the power and inspiration by which the ancient civilization was sustained….It was held to be what some now call the life-essence, the pervading flow with which at death the spirit becomes merged, and from which arises the vital spark that stimulates new growth. Its names are legion. It is the prana or mana of eastern metaphysics, the “vril,” the universal plastic medium of occultists, the anima mundi of alchemy.’ Wilhelm Reich called it the orgone force, the Chinese call it qi or chi and understand its causal relation to all other forces....

Some writers use the terms Shambhala and Agarttha interchangeably, while others distinguish between them. The latter may refer to Shambhala as the “left-hand path,” or “black occult,” or “Wheel of the Black Sun” group, and to Agarttha as the “right-hand path,” or “white occult,” or “Wheel of the Golden Sun” group (and source of the Vril power, which some suggest is the Kundalini power). The leader of Agarttha is The King of the World (Le Roi du Monde). The leaders of Shambhala have various names, as described in this passage from Victoria LePage: “Alice Bailey calls them Ascended Masters, Idries Shah calls them Guardians of the Tradition, John Bennett psychoteleios or “perfected ones,” and they are also known as the Ancient Ones, the Watchers, the Immortals, the Monitors, the Hidden Directorate, the Children of Seth. All follow what is known as the Ancient Path. According to esoteric tradition, in remote times before the advent of the Mystery schools they lived in more open communication with us, but as the age advanced were compelled to withdraw into their present obscurity, so that now they are accessible to only the most highly purified souls and with rare exceptions are known to the rest of us only through the grace of mystical vision.”


Synarchist Concepts Since the Time of Saint-Yves

After writing the preceding part of this article last weekend, I came across an article written by Lynn Picknett and Clive Prince, authors of The Stargate Conspiracy. It is entitled “The Rise of the Rough Beast,” and was adapted from a lecture given at the Saunière Symposium, Conway Hall, London.

Below follows a part of that article dealing with synarchy (for the complete text, see ). See Picknett and Prince’s The Stargate Conspiracy (Berkley Books, 1999) for additional material on the history of synarchy.

In Britain, Synarchy is not widely known even among those interested in esoteric movements and secret societies. This is very surprising, as Synarchy and its founder have been extraordinarily influential.

Synarchy was founded in the early 1870s by Joseph Alexander Saint-Yves d’Alveydre (1824-1909). This was a period in which many new political ideas were taking hold. Like many of a conservative mind, Saint-Yves was alarmed by the rise of Anarchy, and he developed Synarchy specifically in order to counter it. Whereas Anarchy believes that the state should have no authority over the life and behavior of an individual, Synarchy took quite the opposite view. In other words, the more control the state has over the individual the better. This, as you can imagine, was an idea held an attraction for many.

Essentially, Synarchy advocates government by secret society – or, in its own terms, by an elite of enlightened initiates who rule from behind the scenes. It therefore doesn’t matter which political party holds power in a state – or even what political system that state has. Synarchists would step in and take control of the key state institutions. St-Yyes identified three key pillars of society that, once under the control of his elite, would allow them to rule without the population even being aware of their existence. These were the political and social institutions, the economic institutions and the religious institutions.

Although Synarchy can therefore rule in any kind of state, for obvious reasons it finds itself more at home among totalitarian regimes (power is held by less people, and the ruling regime doesn’t change as often as in a democracy). It has therefore always attracted a greater following from the right. Synarchy is totally opposed to ideas of democracy and social equality, as it believes that some people – i.e., Synarchists – are natural leaders.

However, Synarchy as devised by St-Yves was not a purely political movement. St-Yves was active in the esoteric world of 19th century Europe – he was, for example, a friend of key figures such as Victor Hugo and Lord Bulwer-Lytton [mentioned above] - and so incorporated specific mystical and occult ideas into his system.

St-Yves believed in the existence of spiritually superior beings that could be contacted telepathically. His elite would be made up of people who were in communication with them. He himself claimed that he was in touch with these beings, and that they actually gave him the principles of Synarchy. [sounds like Crowley's automatic writing claims, and that backs into the American space program as well through John Parsons...]

Saint-Yves drew upon many esoteric systems, from both East and West, in developing his ideas. For example, he regarded the Knights Templar as the ultimate Synarchists of their day – after all, they exerted control over the political, financial and religious life of medieval Europe, his three pillars of society.

Consequently, Saint-Yves incorporated ideas from the many neo-Templar societies that were flourishing in his day. In particular, he borrowed from a Templarist Masonic society, the Strict Templar Observance, the concept of Unknown Superiors [who were once just the Stewart/Jacobites attempting to get their England back from the Hanoverians] – a group who directed the order but whose identity remained unknown to the members. However, he expanded this concept and made his ‘unknown superiors’ spiritually advanced beings that lived in a remote part of Tibet.

Although Saint-Yves himself is hardly known in this country, he was incredibly influential in the development of 19th century occultism. For example, he was the person who introduced the concept of Agartha, the mysterious underworld realm peopled by initiates hidden somewhere in Tibet. The Masters with whom he claimed to be in contact lived there.

Saint-Yves’ doctrines included ideas about the evolution and history of the human race that were, at the time, novel, but which have since become commonplace in Esoteric and New Age circles.

Central to his reconstruction of history was Atlantis as an advanced, global civilization. He believed that the Sphinx was not built by the ancient Egyptians, but was created by the Atlanteans many thousands of years before the rise of Egypt.

Saint-Yves placed the end of Atlantis at around 12000 BC.

St Yves also promoted the idea of root races – a succession of dominant races each allocated a period of supremacy, but each destined to be supplanted by the next, superior race. It should come as no surprise to learn that the current dominant race is the white Aryans. [This example of “root race” is incorrect. The Aryan root race is comprised of all human beings currently on the planet, i.e., the entire species Homo sapiens.]

It must be stressed that it is impossible to separate Saint-Yves’ version of history from his political ideology. The history is used to justify the ideology and vice versa. Also, his version of history was the result of ‘revealed’ information – it lacked any historical or archaeological proof. For his followers, accepting these ideas was a simple act of faith.

All these ideas have become, of course, part and parcel of subsequent occult beliefs, mainly because they were taken up, embellished and popularized by Madame Blavatsky (1831-1891), that larger-than-life Russian magus – some call her a charlatan – whose love affair with the mysteries of the East led to her founding the Theosophical movement. These concepts were, in turn, incorporated into the teachings of Alice A. Bailey (1880-1949), which have had a huge influence over the beliefs of the New Age – and on the development of the Stargate Conspiracy.


Another important movement that became closely associated with Synarchy was Martinism. Although this predated St-Yves by several decades, the principles of the two were very close – St-Yves was himself a member of the Martinist Order, so there was a lot of cross-fertilization of ideas.

This is interesting because in our last book, The Templar Revelation, we traced the connection between the Martinist Order and other secret societies that make up a network of groups, all ultimately descended from the Strict Templar Observance, which includes the Priory of Sion. It is now becoming clear that an understanding of Synarchy can shed light on the origins and activities of the modern Priory of Sion – but that’s another story...

By the beginnings of the 20th century, the Martinist Orders – and many others – were firmly aligned with the ideology of Synarchy. In 1921 the Martinist and Synarchist Order was founded in France. There were also explicitly Synarchist Masonic lodges formed in France.

However, Synarchy has not only had influence over the occult world, but also over politics.

As we have seen, Synarchy outlined a specific program for the take-over of states. But Saint-Yves’ aims went much further than that – he wanted the whole of Europe to be governed by Synarchy. Right from the start, an important part of the Synarchist agenda was the creation of a United States of Europe, advocating the removal of national boundaries, customs duties, and so on.

This continued to be a central objective of Synarchy. In fact, a Synarchist document published in the 1930s refers to one of their key aims as being ‘the formation of a federal European Union.’ It advocated a United States of Europe – although it would be a Europe that, for economic reasons, would be dominated by France and Germany.

As we saw earlier, Synarchy favours undemocratic and totalitarian regimes – they are, after all, easier to gain control of. And there is a definite connection between Synarchist groups and the origins of Fascism in Europe in the late 1910s and early 1920s.

An organization called the International Synarchist Movement was created in response to the Russian Revolution of 1919. According to French researchers, this was largely behind the rise of Fascism in Italy – and the creation of the Pan-European Movement in 1922.

As might be expected, Synarchy also had some influence on the development of Nazi ideology, although Synarchists had reservations about the Nazis emphasis on German nationalism and the Messianic cult of Hitler.

Synarchy continued to thrive in Saint-Yves’ native France. Synarchist groups were behind a wave of right-wing terrorist attacks in the 1920s and 30s. In the 1930s a Frenchman named Viven Postel du Mas (of whom more later) wrote a notorious document called the Synarchist Pact, which became their manifesto.

In 1932, a society called the Synarchist Empire Movement was founded in France, which was described by one commentator as ‘a secret society with very specific and limited membership, following a definite politico-economic program’. This was behind right-wing terrorist groups such as the CSAR (Secret Committee for Revolutionary Action) – most of the CSAR’s members were part of the Synarchist Empire Movement.

In 1941, in Vichy France, a report by the police warned of a plot by Synarchists to take over the government, which noted the close relationship between the Synarchist movement and the Martinist Orders. In fact, during the trial of Marshall Pétain, the President of the Vichy government, in 1945, questions were asked about his connection with the Synarchist Pact.

The point is that Synarchy was taken very seriously by French authorities in the 1930s and 40s. The term has entered the French political vocabulary (although the French press often use the term ‘synarchy’ to refer to any political or economic conspiracy, such as price-fixing cartels).

After the War, Synarchy adopted a lower profile, but it is still very active. In fact, in recent years Synarchist groups have begun to act more openly both in Europe and in Britain.”

And from a novel kind of PDF, this information claim from a Shockwave Flash paperdocument:

"One of the most interesting people to write about the Prieure may be Michael Lamy. He claims that
Jules Verne was a member of both the Prieure and the Illuminati. Further, he maintains that the Prieure's politics must be understood as "Orleanist," which he describes as "aristocratic, anarchistic, and Nietzchean." Perhaps it all becomes most clear when Lamy reveals to the reader that the true secret of the village of Rennes-le-Chateau is that the extinct volcano Mount Bugarach leads down into the hollow earth to a realm of supermen."

[Michael Lamy, "JULES VERNE, INITIE ET INITIATER -Le ele du secret de Rennes-le-Chateau et le tresor des rois de France" Kosakusha ISBN4-87502-230-1]

With Verne, or St Yves d'Alveydre, or Lytton's Vril, "prophecy", underground themes of elite masters, 'sci fi' and European secret elites get all mixed up...

6/25/2007 03:11:00 AM  
Blogger Sounder said...

The earlier Tolken and Blake posts made for a nice pair. I will go out on a limb here to try to say what is missed when the ‘normal’ dichotomy is applied to the Luciferic/ Ahiramic complex of influences. First off, most people treat their dominant influence as being positive while treating the minor influence as being negative. It is not so.

When consciousness is young it needs to be told more, what proper boundary conditions are to be. This represents the positive side of the fixed principle. It turns negative however if it impedes the development of consciousness. Think of overcontrolling parents. Lucifer, the lightbringer is positive when it uses consciousness to integrate new elements into a larger perspective. It can be negative however when it rebels in anger or tries to use the newfound ‘knowledge’ to create it’s own power base.

All you folk are helping to ‘feed my focus’, and I thank-you for this.

6/25/2007 07:16:00 AM  
Blogger ericswan said...

Mark..If you consider that there are 100 million pages added to the internet daily this blog could, for all intents and purposes, be considered it's own secret society. The old out in plain sight thing deja vu all over again.
Your posting above is truly interesting but I wonder how much of your cut and paste that you subscribe to?

Obviously, at least to my way of seeing things, all of your links remind me that we are squaring the circle here with the rough edges of the square being turned like a dog ear of a great book. Thanks Mark. Good to know you.

6/25/2007 09:48:00 AM  
Blogger just_another_dick said...

I'm somewhat surpised no one has mentioned Trevor James Constable & his "atmospheric lifeforms."

"Constable believed that these atmospheric lifeforms(ALFs) are all around us and made of some kind of "living aerogel"-like giant soap bubbles, but alive. He believed that the creatures could move and were normally invisible to the naked eye, occasionally becoming visible as meteors, the "will-o-the-wisps" of folklore, UFOs or similar phenomena.

Constable experimented with photography and captured some strange images on infrared flm, his only evidence of their existence. Looking like single-celled organisms or developing defects, his images have never been definitively studied or explained."

You can see some of Constable's photos here:

& here:

The latest examples of these supposed "critters" can be found here:

You can also find folk using Constable's & Reich's theories to muck with the weather here:

Interestingly enough, a number of science-fiction writers, including Arthur C. Clarke, have explored the biological plausibility that atmospheric jelly fish or giant balloon creatures may evolve on a gaseous planet.

I'm equally surprised that Austin Osman Spare has received little attention here.

A good overview of Spare can be found here:

"Spare was occasionally bothered by dilettantes and thrill seekers of one kind or another, and on one occasion two dabblers asked him to evoke an "elemental" to visible appearance. A couple of ectoplasm junkies looking for stronger kicks, they had seen the spirits of the human dead materialised at séances, but now they were on a psychic safari after rarer game. They wanted to see a non-human spirit. Spare tried to dissuade them, explaining that these entities embody atavistic forces from deep in the unconscious, and that it is better not to bring them up to the surface. But the dabblers insisted.

Spare drew a graphic symbol of his own devising on a piece of paper, and pressed it to his forehead. Nothing happened for a while. Then the poor light seemed to thicken and grow misty. A greenish mist now definitely seemed to be in the room, congealing into flitting, seaweed-like fingers and beginning to constitute "a definite, organised shape" with a nightmarish quality of absolute evil; "it entered into their midst, gaining more solidity with each successive moment. The atmosphere grew miasmic with its presence and an overpowering stench accompanied it; and in the massive cloud of horror that enveloped them, two pinpoints of fire glowed like eyes, blinking in an idiot face which suddenly seemed to fill all space." The dabblers panicked and begged Spare to send it away again, which he managed to do, but they were badly shaken by the experience. One of them was dead within a few weeks; the other was in a psychiatric hospital."

The 'truth" of any of this is beyond me, but as far as "fictions" go, they are a tad bit more interesting than the run-of-the-mill "fictions", such as "George Bush is a great leader" & "Iraq Has WMDs" & "America is a democracy," that we're normally fed along with our diet of sodium benzoate encrusted sodas & our bovine growth hormone infected burgers.

6/25/2007 01:11:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...


You're right, of course, about the importance of balancing these "drives" (that is the urgency behind Jaap Bax's reconciliation between reductionism & holism), but the case can also be made that the current, Promethean technology is so pervasive, so thoroughly ensconced--at the expense of the kinder tech that Schauberger, for example, envisioned--that a revolutionary reversal is warranted. I'm not sure it's even possible to go too far in that other direction.

I gots to echo Movie Girl & Richard about the relative relevance of sci-fi (NWO-connected visionaries notwithstading!), even if it is just a facile excuse for one of my own addictions. Speaking of such relevances, did I mention Big Gav's Shockwave Rider post? (Now there's a place where fiction & reality meet...)

6/25/2007 04:42:00 PM  
Blogger Sounder said...

Perhaps if Ireneius had not prevailed in enforcing the common doctrine, the luciferic impulse could have developed in a healthier manner. But, no need to cry over spilled milk. (Insensitive? –oops -sorry) I am reminded of a book by Norman Cantor, called History of the Middle Ages. (Caveat, it was a long time ago, so I must check on the book and author name.) In it he profiled people that called themselves ‘perfectibles’. These folk seemed like nothing more than creepy libertines. Clearly gnostic, they seemed like a model for later parasites such as Sabbatians, bankers, commies, etc.

IC, your Schauberger reference also reminded me of an IBM scientist, who upon retiring was given ½ million dollars of test equipment. I forget his name but he developed the magnetic tape and later served as creative development honcho. Anyway by spinning water around a crystal he generated high voltage. He seemed totally curious as to what was going on, and was open to suggestions. I tried to contact him, but no success.

6/25/2007 08:26:00 PM  
Blogger ericswan said...

Richard...I followed your link with the expectation that I would see at least one of the rods he was talking about but nadda. I have taken a few pix of objects that to me are unidentifiable and posted them to my website. Could you check out the pix and let me know if this is what Jose is on about?

6/25/2007 09:31:00 PM  
Blogger oldskool5150 said...

you god damn crazies make my head hurt! ...............................................sometimes a good scalp massage helps a hangover

6/25/2007 11:44:00 PM  
Blogger CuriosityShop said...

I thought this was a good video. And I agree, we are never going to get the truth about UFOs until we explore the inter dimension aspects or possibilities of UFOs.
ufo video discussing inter dimensional possibilities

6/26/2007 12:12:00 AM  
Blogger Mark said...

The same phenomena, separated by 42 years. At least we would know it "wasn't us" back in 1957....

UFO - Black Ring Cloud, 1999
17 sec - Mar 10, 2007 - small full (17 ratings) [the same clip is labeled Orlando 2006 in the other film]
... Florida 1999

The Amazing Ring Shaped UFO, 1957, 1966, 2006, multiple from 2007
4 min - Jun 2, 2007

RooRing, 2006 (0:22)

UFO - Black Horseshoe Smoke -Ring
Footage shot from jet over Germany
Time: 03:19 (just near the end of the film)

The Bob Lazar videos explain the 'why' of this.

Granting it's the same thing he's talking about, this is a rare film of a craft with a "gravity drive".

It affects to warp space (and potentially I'm sure, time, once you start to conceive of such a system of propulsion) where you never move or feel inertia in the craft, though you operate by buckling space/time arrangements before and aft of your craft. (This is similar to the Ralph Ring video above, which I had seen already actually before it was posted. It's interesting, eh?)

Lazar said that in the UFO's he watched in their test flights this diphaneous ring effect and disturbed space around it was the expected external visual effect of that kind of gravity drive. Light is being bent around it and there is just a slight interference pattern that is visible--exactly like these two videos show.

Other craft that might yield a glowing ring (where you can still see the craft) seem to be some form of air ionization of heavy electromagnetic drives operating on putting a positive charge on one side and a negative side on the other, and it would move through space. This is 'old hat' technology similar to the 1930s discs mentioned in the Nick Cook book, The Race to Zero Point, which were quickly made top secret of course.

Lazar mentioned that this additional kind of effect can happen with a gravity drive. The craft obviously doesn't look like this, that's just an afterimage distortion effect of it moving. Some of these do look rather like long balloons thrown in for good measure, though others really do look like warped space/time film stock in a long blur around something.

So, how's that politically enforced stone age technology of thermodynamics (gasoline, oil) looking to you right now? When it's entirely unrequired?

6/26/2007 01:56:00 AM  
Blogger Sounder said...

Aah, memories. The husband of our family’s first day care provider worked for NASA assembling propulsion elements on the Lunar Lander. I was big into 'different' physical theories at the time and had doubts about the actuality of our trips to the moon. I asked him about certain inconsistencies, and his response was short, honest, and very sweet. He said that he installed components, the function of which he did not understand at all. This exchange left me with the impression that NASA has more tech than the larger physics community is aware of.

About this time I switched from thinking about tech and new physics toward thoughts on how to assist the common consciousness become a proper receptacle for new potentials as they open up. That is, I consider that developing a better general approach to reality will serve to more responsibly create the next level for physics, rather than counting on a new physics to shape the future expressions of general consciousness.

6/26/2007 08:04:00 AM  
Blogger Mark said...


On the genetic issues, since "we" look like many aliens (according to more than just this guy), and many could pass for humans on the street, he side-links to the issue of genetic manipulation/genetic sharing mentioned above. "We humans" are probably one of "their" breeding/seeding project, who can say why? "Father of Prometheus" (Iapetus), indeed.

Maybe the actual prime directive is interference and genetic 'harmonization'--to make sure no one goes rogue biological on them....Others though say some are toxic to humans. Though with an array of Heinz 57 varieties saucing it up, seeding a planet with your biological life and 'poisoning it' that way to others, is perhaps one way to scent mark a planet for future use...

57 Alien Species Have Visited Earth
Clifford Stone excerpt (long Version) (4:26)

Eric brought up whether I "believe it," well I don't have that level of information to be sure of course. Though it would make a lot more sense of all the data placed above than assumptions the 'missing link' is here on earth somewhere--instead of out in the stars.

Come on, Iapetus has flat facets, for crying out many planet/planetoids have facets, and a massive perfect 12 mile high equatorial ring structure, and evidence of squared off structures? (See Hoagland above).

Arthur C. Clarke got the inside dope from someone. He described it forty years in advance of the actual NASA flyby Voyager photographs which "just happpened" to verify his novel's 'fiction' about Iapetus.... And now NASA is hiding the even closer flyby Iapetus radar images--which is the only "non release" in the entire publicly stated program of studies so far. Instead, they spin it as if stupid old moon Titan was cool or something compared to Iapetus.

Meditative image, no sound or text. Just Earth's "Moon"TM and Saturn in the distance in an incredible astronomy video shot. Somewhere in that live image is faceted Iapetus right there, just 900 miles across. compared to Saturn at
74,898 miles across, a little over 1% width of Saturn.
Saturn come in sight from behind the Moon in night of 2-3 February 2007. (4:53)

It's called an occultation. Certainly an appropriate double meaning word here...

Al Beilek says that the Earth is pocked with various underground entrances as well--one of them at Montauk Point, Long Island.

Maybe I'll watch the movie version or read Verne's Journey to the Center of the Earth for some clues....anyone know of any (out of the ordinary) strange things in that book that didn't make it to the movie? I always liked James Mason.

"Journey to the Center of the Earth" (1959) Trailer
Pat Boone, James Mason and Arlene Dahl.
Time: 03:13 [ah, how innocent, when organ music was the 'scariest' thing around...]

6/26/2007 09:15:00 AM  
Blogger ericswan said...

Absolutely one of the best movies ever made. It might interest you to know that the three straight lines used to "mark" the way have a long history in themselves. They are called the Duw-A-Digon. I could say more but that would be giving it all away.

I'm surprised that you see the work of Ring and Lazar but don't see the manipulation of time only space. The craft didn't move. It was stationary the whole "time". Anyway, that's my argument for the population of distant satellites. All part of the human race just different timelines and again, the only thing moving was time.

6/26/2007 10:31:00 AM  
Blogger acl said...

IC have you seen this article before? It seems like its right in your bailiwick. Its a little dense so I'll try to highlight an important part or two to whet your appetite:

Latour (1996b, 2000) described how objects, by virtue of their being in the world in some form,
push back in their interactions with humans. A thought, once instantiated, is no longer exactly
that thought, for it now has an independent existence in the world. We can fold ourselves into
an object, but the object always expresses our thoughts, values, intentions, and norms with its
own “timings, tempos, and properties” (1996a, p. 268) —that is, in its own particular form.
Latour gave the example of delegating to a wooden fence the task of containing sheep. He
asked, “Are the sheep interacting with me when they bump their muzzles against the rough pine
planks?” and answered, “Yes, but they are interacting with a me that is, thanks to the fence, disengaged,
delegated, translated, and multiplied. There is indeed a complete actor who is henceforth
added to the social world of sheep, although it is one that has characteristics totally
different from those of [human] bodies” (1996a, p. 239). The fence enacts Latour’s intention to
keep the sheep all together in one place to make sure that none wander off. His action is folded
into the nature of the fence; but if one looks for a “mind” in this situation, it is as much in the
head of Latour, who is now freed up to read a book, as it is in the fence that enacts a particular
way of thinking (keep the sheep together), a way of valuing (although the sheep might not like
it much, it is more important for them to be penned up than for them to roam free), and a way
of interacting (now the sheep interact with the fence rather than with Latour). The relation between
humans and technology is thus best conceived not as humans using objects, but rather as
humans interacting with and through objects.
From this perspective, action has no point of origin; rather action is distributed between actants
(things and people). Latour (1996a) argued that “to act is to mediate another’s action” (p. 237).
The properties of particular humans and objects shape the way action unfolds—that is, humans
and objects are mediators—and all action arises from a process of mutual mediation. This conception
of action does not grant analytic priority to humans, because action is a moment of mutual
mediation between actants, “no one of which,” Latour (1996a) explained, “ever, is exactly the
cause or the consequence of its associates” (p. 237).

In what follows, we take as a premise that persons and artifacts are equivalent actants in this
sense: Persons and artifacts engage in mutual mediation, and the actions that result are not ascribable
more to one than the other. We extend the logic of this premise, suggesting that it implies a
theory of distributed mind in which mediation is the fundamental ontological unit of activity. We
examine the pedagogical and cognitive consequences of such a position, asking, what is thinking
if human action is not the focus of activity? And what are the pedagogical implications of such a
view? That is, we assess the value of addressing Burke’s metaphysical controversy in developing
our conception of thinking and learning in a virtual culture.

and this

Writing and mathematical notations are, of course, static representational systems. Once marks
are made on a writing surface, they do not change unless they are reinscribed. When you write an
equation with a pencil on paper, it remains there until someone erases, changes, or adds to it.
Thinking in a theoretic culture can therefore be reasonably characterized as the result of human
agency mediated by cultural tools. Theoretic culture depends on large-scale storage of information
as a database for analytic thinking, and on a set of external tools that help us control the flow
of this information to our biological processors—that is, to our brains, which evaluate and transform
that information (Donald, 1991). In a theoretic culture, what matters is not what the unaided
mind can accomplish, but rather, as Clark (2003) suggested, “how information is poised for retrieval
and for immediate use as and when required” (p. 69). In such a culture, tools and thoughts
are equivalent, as Dewey suggested, in the sense that both are used by individuals (or groups of individuals)
in activity (Hickman, 1991).
Computational media, however, offer inherently dynamic representations: The power of a
computer lies in its ability to change its state in the world without the ongoing action of a programmer
or user (Kaput, 1986; Shaffer & Kaput, 1999). When you ask a graphing calculator to solve a
system of simultaneous equations, it calculates a long series of approximate solutions until it converges
on an answer without further action on the part of any human being.1 Computational media
thus pose a different relationship between tool and person. Building on Donald’s framework,
Shaffer and Kaput described computational media as a new transformative tool, one in the process
of creating a new cognitive culture. They suggested that just as the theoretic inscription systems of
writing and mathematical notation externalize human memory, computational media make it possible
to externalize a particular form of thinking—namely, understanding that can be expressed as
a well-formed finite-state algorithm. A procedure that can be described to a computer can be carried
out independent of any person. Shaffer and Kaput argued that just as the ability to represent
events in physical gestures created a mimetic culture, the ability to exchange narrative stories using
spoken language made possible a mythic culture, and the ability to store symbolic information
with written symbols led to a theoretic culture, the externalization of symbolic processing in computational
media is in the process of creating a new virtual cognitive culture.

6/26/2007 11:32:00 AM  
Blogger just_another_dick said...

Sorry ericswan, nothing that looks like your posted photo. The best I could find were the 2 film clips here:
but they don't resemble what you have.

Again, sorry.

6/26/2007 11:40:00 AM  
Blogger et in Arcadia ego Eve said...

ericswan - I know that you secretly missed me and knew that I could not resist coming back upon seeing a link to a Camelot domain.

And of course it goes without saying that I am magnetically (or magically) drawn to anything related to Rama and the Sentinel.

But where is my Shrubbery?

6/27/2007 12:23:00 AM  
Blogger Mark said...

And where is everyone else? This thread seems to have led most to run off and drink heavily. I have seldom seen a thread so shockingly quiet (and short), perhaps because it's so close to the bone? Though I can empathize why dissociation is more comfortable than what this implies.

As Jeff's post notes, RI tends to stick to contemporary parapolitics more than 'deep time parapolitics,' though as this William Cooper talk indicates, if you link these up you have a general handle of a major secret and rationale for much of current politics particularly in the USA for the past 50 years.

William Cooper: The Secret Government and UFOs (probabaly recorded in 1989, almost twenty years ago, pre-internet folks!, this is its real title, whoever posted it to Google Video altered the topic title of the talk)
1 hr 28 min - Sep 1, 2006

Pasting a list I put on a previous thread that relates to this, here are the Americans in the know.

It would be a great book to collectively follow these people from the 1950s to the present to see where the those in the know turned up and see if Cooper's insider information collection of data was correct:

William Cooper (at the link below) argues for the "Jason Scholars" of the 1950s around Eisenhower as a governmental-occult network--more governmental first and made occult later by the desire to isolate the knowledge base about aliens as well as keep leaks from occurring.

I imagine links to other occult societies started to seriously get involved in these personnel or were already involved with this list of people.

The ‘first generation alien scholars’ let in on the supposed alien contact information was, he says, a “pre-MJ12” group that met for three years in the 1950s.

It is worth checking out every bio on this list he gives.

To cut to the chase and spark comment, the list he gives with likely some mistrascribed/spelled by me, is:

“the study group on the aliens” aka Jason Scholars
held at: Marine Corps Base Quantico

Gordon Dean, Chairman

Zbigniew Brzezinski, study director for the first 18 months
Henry Kissinger, study director for the next phase

Dr. Edward Teller represented the scientific community

Major General Richard C. Lindsey
Hanson W. Baldwin
Lloyd B. Berkner (sp)
Frank C. Nash
Paul H. Nitzy (sp)
Charles P. Noyes
Frank Pace Jr
James A. Perkins
John K. Price
David Rockefeller [Nelson Rockefeller sat in as well sometimes he said elsewhere]
Oscar M. Rubehausen
Lt. General James N. Gavin
Carl E. Haskins
James T. Hill, Jr.
Joseph E. Johnson
Mervin J. Kelley (sp)
Frank Altschul
Hamilton Fish Armstrong
Major General James McCormick Jr
Robert R. Borey (sp)
McGeorge Bundy
William A.M. Burden
John C. Campbell
Thomas K. Pindletter (sp)
George S. Franklin Jr
I. I. Rabbi (sp)
Rozwell L. Gilpatrick
N. E. Halaby
General Walter Biddell Smith
Henry DeWolf Smyth
Shilds Childs Warren (sp)
Carol L. Wilson
Arnold Wolfers (sp)

Some of those names would probably be “reporting back” what was going on to more tangible occult networks and it would get all intermeshed in different political designs that way.

Cooper said there were 37 people (though he gives 38 names--including Nelson Rockefeller 'sitting in' occasionally).

More on that location:

The Marine Corps Base Quantico, near Triangle, Virginia, is one of the largest United States Marine Corps bases in the world. Known as the "Crossroads of the Marine Corps", it is a major Marine Corps training base, covering nearly 100 square miles. The Corps' Combat Development Command is based here, which develops strategies for Marine combat, and makes up most of the community of over 12,000 military and civilian personnel, including families. It has a budget of around $300 million. The Marine Corps Research Center at Quantico pursues equipment R&D, especially telecommunications, for the Marine Corps. In addition, the FBI has its principal research and training facilities here, including a mock village, numerous labs, and equipment test ranges. Quantico is also the principal training facility for the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA).

It is the site of the Marine Corps Combat Development Command and HMX-1, the presidential helicopter squadron.

The base is the home of major training institutions for both the Marine Corps and federal law enforcement agencies, including:

* Drug Enforcement Administration training academy
* FBI Academy
* Officer Candidate School
* The Basic School
* The Advanced School
* Marine Corps Security Guard Battalion
* Marine Corps University

6/27/2007 03:00:00 AM  
Blogger ericswan said...

Mark.. Back to real time eh?

6/27/2007 09:09:00 AM  
Blogger ericswan said...

One more link on the theory of time and why all of these aliens in this string membrane are future humans.

6/27/2007 09:14:00 AM  
Blogger Mark said...

Holy hell. Look at those photographs. Look at that 'self-executing script'. It's quite beautiful, isn't it? Thanks, Eric. Mere Earth cultural aesthetics can be so limiting, do you agree? What a strange feeling. Like staring at a key you don't know where the lock is or even what the lock looks like despite having the key right in front of you.

Where did you hear of "Isaac"?

What are these "recent sightings" he talks of at the start, as if is common knowledge?

Good God:

favorite quotes:

I should be clear before I begin, as a final note: I am not interested in making myself vulnerable to the consequences of betraying the trust of my superiors and will not divulge any personal information that could determine my identity. However my intent is not to deceive, so information that I think is too risky to share will be simply left out rather than obfuscated in some way (aside from my alias, which I freely admit is not my real name). I would estimate that with the information contained in this letter, I could be narrowed down to one of maybe 30-50 people at best, so I feel reasonably secure.


I should first be clear that I'm not directly familiar with any of the crafts seen in the photos in their entirety. I've never seen them in a hangar or worked on them myself or seen aliens zipping around in them. However, I have worked with and seen many of the parts visible in these crafts, some of which can be seen in the Q3-85 Inventory Review scan found at the top of this page. More importantly though, I'm very familiar with the �language� on their undersides seen clearly in photos by Chad and Rajman, and in another form in the Big Basin photos.

One question I can answer for sure is why they're suddenly here. These crafts have probably existed in their current form for decades, and I can say for sure that the technology behind them has existed for decades before that. The �language�, in fact, (I'll explain shortly why I keep putting that in quotes) was the subject of my work in years past. I'll cover that as well.


Private industry in Silicon Valley was responsible for some of the most incredible technological leaps in history and this fact did not go unnoticed by the US government and military. I don�t claim to have any special knowledge about Roswell or any of the other alleged early UFO events, but I do know that whatever the exact origin, the military was hard at work trying to understand and use the extra-terrestrial artifacts it had in its possession. While there had been a great deal of progress overall, things were not moving as quickly as some would have liked. So, in 1984, the CARET program was created with the aim of harnessing the abilities of private industry in silicon valley and applying it to the ongoing task of understanding extra-terrestrial technology.


Unlike traditional research in this area, we weren�t working on new toys for the air force. For numerous reasons, the CARET people decided to aim its efforts at commercial applications rather than military ones. They basically wanted us to turn these artifacts into something they could patent and sell. One of CARET�s most appealing promises was the revenue generated by these product-ready technologies, which could be funneled right back into black projects.

[Gee. "Black Projects Go Legit." That's just great (sarcasm). What? They don't get enough money from half a trillion dollars annually pimping the whole international drug trade to fund this stuff anymore?]


PACL was located in Palo Alto, but unlike XPARC, it wasn�t at the end of a long road in the middle of a big complex surrounded by rolling hills and trees. PACL was hidden in an office complex owned entirely by the military but made to look like an unassuming tech company. From the street, all you could see was what appeared to be a normal parking lot with a gate and a guard booth, and a 1-story building inside with a fictitious name and logo. What wasn�t visible from the street was that behind the very first set of doors was enough armed guards to invade Poland, and 5 additional underground stories. They wanted to be as close as possible to the kinds of people they were looking to hire and be able to bring them in with a minimum of fuss.

Inside, we had everything we needed. State of the art hardware and a staff of over 200 computer scientists, electrical engineers, mechanical engineers, physicists and mathematicians. Most of us were civilians, as I�ve said, but some were military, and a few of them had been working on this technology already. Of course, you were never far from the barrel of a machine gun, even inside the labs themselves (something many of us never got used to), and bi-weekly tours were made by military brass to ensure that not a single detail was out of line. Most of us underwent extensive searches on our way into and out of the building. There it was, probably the biggest secret in the world, in a bunch of parts spread out on laboratory tables in the middle of Palo Alto so you can imagine their concern.


One downside to CARET was that it wasn't as well-connected as other operations undoubtedly were. I never got to see any actual extra-terrestrials (not even photos), and in fact never even saw one of their compete vehicles. 99% of what I saw was related to the work at hand, all of which was conducted within a very narrow context on individual artifacts only.


A lot of the technology we worked on was what you would expect, namely antigravity.


The �Language�

I put the word Language in quotes because calling what I am about to describe a �language� is a misnomer, although it is an easy mistake to make.

Their hardware wasn�t operated in quite the same way as ours. In our technology, even today, we have a combination of hardware and software running almost everything on the planet. Software is more abstract than hardware, but ultimately it needs hardware to run it. In other words, there�s no way to write a computer program on a piece of paper, set that piece of paper on a table or something, and expect it to actually do something. The most powerful code in the world still doesn�t actually do anything until a piece of hardware interprets it and translates its commands into actions.

But their technology is different. It really did operate like the magical piece of paper sitting on a table, in a manner of speaking. They had something akin to a language, that could quite literally execute itself, at least in the presence of a very specific type of field. The language, a term I am still using very loosely, is a system of symbols (which does admittedly very much resemble a written language) along with geometric forms and patterns that fit together to form diagrams that are themselves functional. Once they are drawn, so to speak, on a suitable surface made of a suitable material and in the presence of a certain type of field, they immediately begin performing the desired tasks. It really did seem like magic to us, even after we began to understand the principles behind it.

I worked with these symbols more than anything during my time at PACL, and recognized them the moment I saw them in the photos. They appear in a very simple form on Chad�s craft, but appear in the more complex diagram form on the underside of the Big Basin craft as well. Both are unmistakable, even at the small size of the Big Basin photos. An example of a diagram in the style of the Big Basin craft is included with this in a series of scanned pages from the [mistitled] "Linguistic Analysis Primer". We needed a copy of that diagram to be utterly precise, and it took about a month for a team of six to copy that diagram into our drafting program!

Explaining everything I learned about this technology would fill up several volumes, but I will do my best to explain at least some of the concepts as long as I am taking the time to write all this down.

[no more Babbage, no more Von Neumann computer architecture, no more boolean binary based semiconductor frameworks:]

First of all, you wouldn't open up their hardware to find a CPU here, and a data bus there, and some kind of memory over there. Their hardware appeared to be perfectly solid and consistent in terms of material from one side to the other. Like a rock or a hunk of metal. But upon [much] closer inspection, we began to learn that it was actually one big holographic computational substrate - each "computational element" (essentially individual particles) can function independently, but are designed to function together in tremendously large clusters. I say its holographic because you can divide it up into the smallest chunks you want and still find a scaled-down but complete representation of the whole system. They produce a nonlinear computational output when grouped. So 4 elements working together is actually more than 4 times more powerful than 1. Most of the internal "matter" in their crafts (usually everything but the outermost housing) is actually this substrate and can contribute to computation at any time and in any state. The shape of these "chunks" of substrate also [i.e., the shape of the craft itself is a language issue] another variable in the had a profound effect on its functionality [i.e., see the strage images at the link of the 'craft'], and often served as a "shortcut" to achieve a goal that might otherwise be more complex.

[The very shape of the craft is 'read' by the field to make it work.]

So back to the language. The language is actually a "functional blueprint". The forms of the shapes, symbols and arrangements thereof is itself functional. What makes it all especially difficult to grasp is that every element of each "diagram" is dependent on and related to every other element, which means no single detail can be created, removed or modified independently. Humans like written language because each element of the language can be understood on its own, and from this, complex expressions can be built. However, their "language" is entirely context-sensitive, which means that a given symbol could mean as little as a 1-bit flag in one context, or, quite literally, contain the entire human genome or a galaxy star map in another. The ability for a single, small symbol to contain, not just represent, tremendous amounts of data is another counter-intuitive aspect of this concept. We quickly realized that even working in groups of 10 or more on the simplest of diagrams, we found it virtually impossible to get anything done. As each new feature was added, the complexity of the diagram exponentially grew to unmanageable proportions. For this reason we began to develop computer-based systems to manage these details and achieved some success, although again we found that a threshold was quickly reached beyond which even the supercomputers of the day were unable to keep up. Word was that the extra-terrestrials could design these diagrams as quickly and easily as a human programmer could write a Fortran program. It's humbling to think that even a network of supercomputers wasn't able to duplicate what they could do in their own heads. Our entire system of language is based on the idea of assigning meaning to symbols. Their technology, however, somehow merges the symbol and the meaning, so a subjective audience is not needed. You can put whatever meaning you want on the symbols, but their behavior and functionality will not change, any more than a transistor will function differently if you give it another name.

Here's an example of how complex the process is. Imagine I ask you to incrementally add random words to a list such that no two words use any of the same letters, and you must perform this exercise entirely in your head, so you can't rely on a computer or even a pen and paper. If the first in the list was, say, "fox", the second item excludes all words with the letters F, O and X. If the next word you choose is "tree", then the third word in the list can't have the letters F, O, X, T, R, or E in it. As you can imagine, coming up with even a third word might start to get just a bit tricky, especially since you can't easily visualize the excluded letters by writing down the words. By the time you get to the fourth, fifth and sixth words, the problem has spiraled out of control. Now imagine trying to add the billionth word to the list (imagine also that we're working with an infinite alphabet so you don't run out of letters) and you can imagine how difficult it is for even a computer to keep up. Needless to say, writing this kind of thing "by hand" is orders of magnitude beyond the capabilities of the brain.

My background lent itself well to this kind of work though. I'd spent years writing code and designing both analog and digital circuits, a process that at least visually resembled these diagrams in some way. I also had a personal affinity for combinatorics, which served me well as I helped with the design of software running on supercomputers that could juggle the often trillions of rules necessary to create a valid diagram of any reasonable complexity. This overlapped quite a bit with compiler theory as well, a subject I always found fascinating, and in particular compiler optimization, a field that wasn't half of what it is today back then. A running joke among the linguistics team was that Big-O notation couldn't adequately describe the scale of the task, so we'd substitute other words for "big". By the time I left I remember the consensus was "Astronomical-O" finally did it justice.

Like I said, I could go on for hours about this subject, and would love to write at least an introductory book on the subject if it wasn't still completely classified, but that's not the point of this letter so I'll try to get back on track.


By the time I was done, I'd made out with hundreds of photocopies, as well as a few originals and a large collection of original photographs.

With this initial letter I have attached high resolution scans of the following:

1. A page from an inventory review with a photo that appears to depict one of the parts found in the Rajman sighting and parts very similar to the Big Basin craft

2. The first 9 pages of one of our quarterly research reports

3. Scans of the original photographs used in that report, since the photocopies obscure most of the details [OMG, it's very shape is part of the 'program']

4. 5 pages from a report on our ongoing analysis of the �language� (inappropriately titled �linguistic analysis�), depicting the kind of diagram just barely visible on the underside of the Big Basin craft

This material is the most relevant and explanatory I could find on short notice. Now that these are up, IF I decide to release more in the future, I'll be able to take my time and better search this rather large collection of mine that I've sadly never organized.

[fascinating that he claims to recognize the 'self-executing script' on some decloaked photographs of flying alien craft recently taken, and puports to explain how the mere shapes somehow generated the antigravity effect in a special 'field' as he says.]


One thing I can definitely say is that if they wanted us gone, we would have been gone a very, very long time ago, and we wouldn't even have seen it coming. Throw out your ideas about a space war or anything silly like that. We'd be capable of fighting back against them about as much as ants could fight back against a stampede of buffalo. But that's OK. We're the primitive race, they're the advanced races, and that's just the way it is. The other advanced races let them live through their primitive years back in their day, and there's no reason to think it will be any different for us. They aren't in the market for a new planet, and even if they were, there are way too many planets out there for them to care about ours enough to take it by force.

To reiterate my take on the recent sightings, I'd guess that experimentation done in the last couple months on a device that, among other things, is capable of interfering with various crafts onboard invisibility has resulted in a sudden wave of sightings. It may not explain all of the recent events, but like I said, I'd bet my life that's exactly what happened at Big Basin at least, and it's probably related in some way to the Chad, Rajman and Tahoe sightings. So, despite all the recent fanfare over this, I'd say this doesn't mean much. Most importantly, they aren't suddenly �here�. They've been here for a long time, but just happened to turn unintentionally visible for brief periods recently.

[What is odd is that some aspects of the self-executing script look like Japanese....]

That's a working anti-gravity generator, guys. "Figure 4.1." Four pounds, three ounces. Little over a foot long, less than a foot wide. No moving parts. No control interface. Only known method of controlling what they call this "A1" is the "S1" external part, which gives A1 three different settings.

The most fascinating thing is that this antigrav is a ubiqutous metal joining technology utilized throughout the craft and other applications.

Anti grav 'gears' (they say they turn 'on' the A1 and smaller parts A2 and A3 fly into empty hanging space around it, in what they assume are its 'working position'; they additionally mention that antigrav can join distant objects in this way to operate as a "solid piece," even though there is empty space between the two pieces and you could move your hand through the empty space; you can additionally set the A1 to make a particular item 'rotate around its centroid' as if it was weightless, so the exact shape of particular things matters greatly I guess)

Anti grav soldering (temporary gravitationally unbreakable soldering, switchable on or off)

What was surprising is that antigrav they say is far more than propulsion: it's "their" key physical science knowledge that has derived a whole whole branch of applications outside propulsion, described in this introduction paragraph.

The human generations now living may be the last humanocentric developmental ones, ever--if this really does come out into commercial technological applications.

It's been a good morning. I wonder what I'll do this afternoon.

6/27/2007 11:11:00 AM  
Blogger Mark said...

I assume this is a picture of the A1 in the 'on' position.

Note the A2 and A3 pieces look like they have 'snapped' into a floating position. Attempting to think of the rationale of those particular positions is quite vertigenous, isn't it? Much less how you program one position over another position...or program a particular effect on a piece in addition to programming a position... or programming two pieces to 'lock' like these seem to have done relative to each other, in a certain position.

If there are no moving parts in this "A1", what the hell are the A2 and A3 pieces for? What requirement do they serve?

I wonder if this is zero point vibratory in origin for power.

Bearden has patented a non-moving parts engine--the MEG--though those are motionless magnet generators. Magnet based. No on or off there.

However, to have a separate 'on' phase, controlled remotely from somewhere else (in that "S1" thing that he was reluctant to show a photograph of), implies something vibratory aimed at the A1 to make it work? Does the A1 magnify something tiny coming out of the S1?

If the A1 is motionless, is it a zero point energy amplifier and antigrav generator rolled into one? Is that the 'universal' tap for power it uses?

Even if that was so, it seems that there's a whole aspect of basic physics and electrogravitation-magnetics tapped here that this exploits about the real world, and we don't know to even have technology built around such a real world idea. And "they" do. The fact of rigid spatial positioning of things seems to imply a gray area between gravitation and magnetics (like the balance or push you get with holding magnets against each other in the wrong way; seems something about gravity can get similar 'inverted magnet' effect on something you want. Anything you want. Within a certain 'field.'

It seems like a perfected controllable 'three shift' "Hutchinson effect generator." Which implies that the same three antigravity effects 'Isaac' describes ('rigid spatial positioning' that is quite 'magnet like' without magnets in one piece or bewteen different relative pieces locked in "grav sync" (an effect Hutchinson has never seen); off the shelf antigravity (which H has seen); stable (immovable?) rotation around a centroid (somewhat magnetic and antigrav: H hasn't seen that either).

That means these other effects are equally natural to gravitation in objects and between objects--and could be generated predictably by Hutchinson if he knew how. Maybe gravity is just some type of effect stuck in the on position.

6/27/2007 12:59:00 PM  
Blogger ericswan said...

There actually is a buzz about that craft.

and Whitley Streiber sort of debunks it but C2C is interviewing Isaac tomorrow night. Sounds like it will go viral to me.

6/27/2007 07:48:00 PM  
Blogger just_another_dick said...

"And where is everyone else? This thread seems to have led most to run off and drink heavily. I have seldom seen a thread so shockingly quiet (and short), perhaps because it's so close to the bone? Though I can empathize why dissociation is more comfortable than what this implies."

Mark, Mark, Mark, you've definitely missed the nail head this time.
I suspect that RI-ers, like myself & most Americans, have been dealing with the really important issues such as Paris Hilton's post prison fashion statement.

You need to put down your dog-eared copy of Behold A Pale Horse, de-Google yourself from these tangled conspiracy webs you favor & hunker down with some real news.

Just to be neighborly I'll start you on your way.

& IC said, "I gots to echo Movie Girl & Richard about the relative relevance of sci-fi (NWO-connected visionaries notwithstading!), even if it is just a facile excuse for one of my own addictions. "

All facile excuses for your addictions aside IC, you've got to admit that "fiction" has a way of crossing the aisle into the "non-fiction" section don't you?

Just taking this thread with its alien hoodoo voodoo ambiance, almost all facets of the UFO/alien abduction scenario were pretty artfully pre-figured to a great degree in those cheap sci-fi pulps of the 30's & 40's.
Even something as outre as certain contemporary dabblers in things magickal & their insistence that Lovecraft's fiction was thinly veiled "truth," were beaten there by Robert Bloch & his 1972 novel Strange Eons.

To paraphrase Alan Moore, 'Well, we made it all up.'

I'm drifting so far into the "everything is just fiction" camp that I'm willing to concede you your utopian view & its possible fruition. After reading Cialdini's book & his insistance that every desired change becomes far more likely if you first get those in need of change to write down their desired changes, I think your dream world is do-able if you swing enough folk to commit in writing.

If, that is, they can still write after a lifetime of "news" like the PH vid I linked to above...

....which happened to be THE TOP FUCKING STORY on my Yahoo "news" page. As if seeing that would make me want to do something other than thwack myself repeatedly in the head with an iron skillet while simultaneously stapling this goddamn computer to my 15 year old television set & heaving them both out of the motherfucking window.

6/27/2007 10:40:00 PM  
Blogger Mark said...

"Mark, Mark, Mark, you've definitely missed the nail head this time. I suspect that RI-ers, like myself & most Americans, have been dealing with the really important issues such as Paris Hilton's post prison fashion statement."

hee hee. If the aliens were more PR savvy, they would buzz Paris's prison-debutante catwalk event ... or follow Britney Spears around ... or televangelists .... or TV news anchors ... or hover over football halftime events .... --- or as Eric suggests, go back in time and appear on The Price is Right reruns as contestants.

Though only 4% of the world are Americans, let's remember.

6/27/2007 11:14:00 PM  
Blogger CuriosityShop said...

Writing In Chad "Drone" Image - A Link to
NASA Clementine 1 Moon Mission?

© 2007 by Linda Moulton Howe
Original digital image submitted by Chad of dragonfly-shaped aerial "drone" that shows
symbols and writing on the long, segmented appendage as object flew over Chad
in the general Bakersfield region. Image dated May 6, 2007, and © by Chad.

June 18, 2007 Albuquerque, New Mexico - On Sunday evening, June 17, I received an email from George Pettit, a truck driver based in Shermansdale, Pennsylvania. He uses and listens to Coast to Coast AM Radio. So George was aware of the ongoing and evolving dragonfly-shaped drone story. He was studying the Chad photographs at Earthfiles:

George decided to rotate 180 degrees the lettering on the long tail to see if he could figure it out more clearly. He decided that in the middle section of the segmented tail, he could make out +x yx7+

Chad's close-up of dragonfly "drone" lettering on long tail section,
rotated 180 degrees in Photoshop so that the center panel reads +x yx7+.
Chad wrote that his images were taken on May 6, 2007, in the general Bakersfield region.

George then typed +x yx7+ into Google. He was so stunned by what came up that he sent me this email:

"Date: June 17, 2007

I looked at pic number 5 (in Earthfiles sequence of Chad photos, 5 has writing on tail section) and rotated it 180 degrees, and then googled the " +x yx7+ " writing on the craft. You must leave a space between x and y. This is the first thing comes up!

M p 3 ð 2 ¿ { ¢ / ˜ o ï ' ¡ ® ‘ Þ ’ 3 u Z t µ é V y Ä § O ó f 1 ¾ o j x Ž _ ¸ o 9 Ý $ Ü ... R •8Æõ yX7+ Û½1hÐ(è¤íÿ몲?8ê»w9ëAHó&@Üo€v ”æ0Ë“Œ zæœ,`Žeê ý… ... cl_0060/lun262/lhxxxxxx/lhxxxxxd/lhd0437d.262 - 22k - Cached - Similar pages

Notice the in the URL above.

Thank You
George Pettit"

I followed George Pettit's directions and the URL took me to the information below about Deep Space Program Science Experiment, Clementine 1, Lunar Mapping by Naval Research Laboratory.

And when photos of this thing first started making the rounds (oh it is already viral ericswan) the trekkies were positive it was Klingon writing on there. Haven’t checked out Klingon writing lately but could be a Nasa joke.

But it exists and it does look like antigravity technology. So?

And Shrub for the past month every day the most popular story in google has been Paris Hilton. Go figure. I guess she’s just another form of Prozac, which really is supposed to make you happy but just makes you unhappy and mad as hell.

I think if everyone would get off of Paris (pun) and go read stories like this, maybe just maybe we wouldn’t all be so damn sad and running around killing, killing, killing.

Astronomers look to quark stars for a fifth dimension
They analysed the Cygnus X-3 binary system, in which a normal star orbits a second object, generally thought to be a neutron star.
Objects in Cygnus X-3 are under extreme gravity, which the researchers say would provide the necessary conditions for extra dimensions to affect matter. Moreover, it spews out ultra-high-energy particles as far as Earth, which the team say could have been tweaked by an extra dimension inside the system. Astronomers believe these high-energy particles, dubbed "cygnets",
The Cygnus Mystery

All around the world ancient peoples fixed the location of heaven - the source of cosmic life and death - in the same segment of sky, the constellation of Cygnus, the Swan. But why?

The Cygnus Mystery provides compelling evidence that …

- Cosmic rays from a binary star known as Cygnus X-3 helped accelerate human evolution during the last Ice Age

- The veneration of Cygnus as a bird associated with cosmic life and death goes back 17,000 years to when the constellation occupied pole position in the northen night sky

- Cygnus is at the root of all the world's religions

6/27/2007 11:42:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...


Still thinking about that link…

From ericswan’s link:

When an UFO flies away, it appears to us as terrific acceleration. But it is just an appearance! Whatever the physical make-up of the occupants of these machines, they could not undergo such lightning acceleration without injury. It is not therefore "variable spaces "that must be studied, but "variable time" . For example: if the acceleration of an object appears to us to be 100m / s2, (330ft/s2) it is really, for the occupants, 10m/s2 (33ft/s2) because their seconds change density. In other words, the first of their seconds will be the same as ours, then the next one will dilate to become one of our minutes, and so on, so that in fact, it accelerates very little. But the illusion which we have is a fantastic acceleration until their disappearance into another density of time, thus making them invisible for us AS WE ARE FOR PLANTS WHEN WE PASS IN FRONT OFTHEM WITHOUT STOPPING

This is the heart of that Variable Speed of Light theory that’s getting squashed by the Ample Ass-Cheek of the Orthodoxy (great band name, eh?)!! From Flynn’s novelization of VSL & aliens in medieval Germany (Eifelheim), we find this in the

Physics Notes (Page 459 of 467)

The model that Sharon develops for the multiverse was slapped together and given a coat of paint many years ago for the novella Eifelheim (Analog, Nov., 1986) from which the “Now” portions of this book derive. Mohsen Janatpour, who now teaches at San Mateo State in California, was most helpful in this and Janatpour Space was, and is, named in his honor.

Recently, variable light speed (VLS) theories have become a hot topic among cosmologists. One prominent advocate is João Magueijo, whose gossipy book Faster Than the Speed of Light is a good introduction, as well as an entertaining narrative of how physics actually gets done. I was pleased to read in his book that he considered the “Kaluza-Klein” approach that Mohsen and I came up with back in the 1980s, though unsurprised to see him reject it. I decided to keep it, just because. In all fairness, the decline in light speed has not happened over historical times, but only in the aftermath of the Big Bang. It has been proposed as a way of getting around the kludge of inflaton fields, which were made up simply to make the Big Bang model work. A mysterious force, the inflaton, invoked simply to save the appearances of the theory and afterward allowed to disappear from the universe would never have passed muster with Buridan, and Will Ockham would have howled about the needless multiplication of entities. VLS theories nicely resolve the problem using inherent feedback loops that homeostatically fine tune the universe. No new entities are needed.

When we last spoke, Mohsen and I discussed also the quantization of the red shift. Some physicists see it; others don’t. Same data. One explanation for a quantized red shift is that time is quantized just as space is supposed to be. Since I had already invented the fictional chronon for the original Eifelheim, this new redshift question fits right in. If it’s true, we may have to revise the universe, again.

Same concept, more or less. No wonder it doesn’t get out much.


I’m not getting that Fortune City link at all, except for that fractal-looking photo of the language analysis machine—any ideas? (Link in “longhand,” maybe?) So far, it sounds remarkably like Rudy Rucker talking about Wolfram's computational universality in The Lifebox, the Seashell, and the Soul: What Gnarly Computation Taught Me About Ultimate Reality, the Meaning Of Life, and How To Be Happy.


Stranger things have happened...haven't they? My friend at NewHeadNews sent me this link on old Paris today, asking me if I happened to catch Tommy Chong on Colbert a few nights ago. Now that's news.

Movie Girl,

Here's the only version of Cygnus I can trust anymore. Okay; it's the only one I know.

6/28/2007 12:53:00 AM  
Blogger ericswan said...

The fabric of time is on three threads and it is for that reason we have a new string theory which is now described as the string membrane theory. If you're interested, check out

The link is "old school" and does not do the membrane theory at all. Schauberger would be proud of the membrane strings. He may even be the reason that we have such a theory.

e.g. swan

6/28/2007 08:51:00 AM  
Blogger CuriosityShop said...

Anyone else remember this movie?
The Explorers

This film blends some elements of E.T. with The Goonies and classic sci-fi films, as three young friends are drawn into a space fantasy adventure. The protagonists of this film are three neighborhood kids, Ben Crandall (Hawke), Wolfgang Müller (Phoenix), and Darren Woods (Presson).

Ben is obsessed with aliens, and one night he has a dream about a circuit board. He proceeds to draw out the board; with the aid of the brainy Wolfgang, the two friends begin to assemble the device. After a fight at school, Ben meets Darren, a new kid in the neighborhood that appears to be a tough. The three continue working on the circuit board. All three have a recurring dream which includes seeing each other and flying about a giant version of the circuit board.

They quickly discover that the circuit board enables the creation of a sealed bubble that can be remotely steered. It can force open the ground and allows space travel.

The first bubble is made in their workshop, and is about 3 inches diameter, and makes holes in anything that it goes through. Their next experiment is away from town. The bubble is about 5 feet diameter and forms around one of the boys and gives him a scary unexpected flight.

The three build a home-made spacecraft out of an amusement ride seat (a "Tilt-A-Whirl"), with windows from washing machines and televisions. Darren names it the Thunder Road, after the Bruce Springsteen song. Their first flight results in property damage and a close call with the police, and a UFO report in a newspaper. They do not want to finish where the circuit board is taking them, so they reverse polarity (shutting the bubble off, which allows in a fresh supply of air) and return to the ground.

Another dream and circuit board results in a device that creates oxygen. They install three breathing apparatuses connected to this device. Two of these apparatuses are each a small medical mouth-and-nose transparent oxygen mask coupled to the air supply by a thin transparent hose. The other is a wider single corrugated black hose linked to a scuba diving full face mask of the type with two flat eye windows and an inner mouth-and-nose mask.

They embark on an adventure deep into outer space. An alien spaceship shows up and scoops up the boys' spaceship. Ben and Darren get separated from Wolfgang. They end up meeting an intimidating spider-like robot that proceeds to smell and frisk them. They then come across Wak (Robert Picardo), a friendly but odd alien. They set out to look for Wolfgang, who is lounging under a window with Neek (Leslie Rickert), a female alien. Both of the aliens are enamored with TV and radio signals they can pick up; Wak mimics sounds and voices perfectly and proceeds to entertain them. The boys discover that the aliens have been sending the circuit schematics to Ben's dreams in order to meet some of the people who have been beaming the signals into space.

A lot to think about, isn’t it.

Perhaps UFOs are just kids out for a joyride.

And that old, old movie The Day the Earth Stood Still, there is a scene from that movie where the camera pans around the crowd gathered to see the aliens, and you have all the adults filled with absolute panic, military everywhere with itchy trigger fingers, and then every kid there is wide eyed with wonder and BIG smiles on all their faces.

What a message, may we always remain child like and filled with wonder.

Too bad so many of us grew up and became just like those adults.

6/28/2007 12:17:00 PM  
Blogger Mark said...

"And that old, old movie The Day the Earth Stood Still, ..."

I read somewhere (or watched an interview with someone, I forget, sorry) that that movie was a U.S. gov't 'trial balloon' intentionally seeded. They wanted to know how the public would react to such an ultimatum from an alien species to 'shape up, stop endangering yourselves, because we won't allow that type of atomic/nuclear militarism into space'. Because, they had just got the same real ultimatum themselves.... If I can think of the source of where I heard that, I'll post something else about it.

6/28/2007 12:36:00 PM  
Blogger Mark said...

I don't watch TV news, and this is why. And this newscaster knows it. She's sick of Paris Hilton as well.

Frankly, I don't even recognize these newscasters, which makes me glad.

This MSNBC one named Mika, is as she said, "about to snap" over being forced to lead with the Paris Hilton story day after day.

So she attempts to set her Paris Hilton story on fire, on camera, it is taken away from her by her coanchor, then she takes it back, rips it up, then there is another clip of her taking the forced lead and shredding it on camera.

June 26: MSNBC's Mika Brzezinski refuses to talk about Paris Hilton on Morning Joe.

There is an annoying commercial first, and then we have the ripping up of the Paris story. That's over by about 1 minute, then as icing on the dead media cake they get into 'serious news'--which is only some kind of U.S. corporate product advertising (some kind of internet phone being demonstrated as "news"), etc.

6/28/2007 01:03:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

Alright, acl, I’ve digested that Toolforthoughts stuff, and here’s where it leaves us: as co-creationists with the tools we’ve invented or discovered to spread “our” memes. For example, we devise this myth of Prometheus, but then it takes on a life of its own in a certain way—as a symbol it keeps communicating with the world long after we’ve set it down and gotten into something else.

It’s not just the old question of just when the symbol becomes reality but instead a universe where we keep building these reality engines which keep on ticking long after we’ve stopped paying attention to them. Whole technologies can be said to belong to this category of reality engines—especially the internet and any open source holdings. As a weirdly synchronous example, I just went back through this thread to find this link again (I always lose them somewhere), and along the way I stopped at a link that Mark had put up about Triangles.

The link was to Portland IndyMedia and featured a discussion of the Werner von Braun vs. Phil Schneider “debate,” which I started reading, only to come across a passage in quotation marks but otherwise unattributed that rang all sorts of bells for me. Something about the phrasing was just so familiar I knew I had seen it somewhere before. So, I climb back up to the top and find a link to RI, follow that back here, and discover that the eerily familiar passage damned well ought to be, since I wrote it.

Just as the Toolforthoughts folks describe this phenomenon, I no longer “owned” that passage—I didn’t even really recognize it (certainly not as something I had written myself) but was instead just picking up a “vaguely familiar" vibe.

What this all means is that they’re right, to some extent at least. We set things in motion—languages, ideas, phrases, technologies, etc--which then have a sort of life of their own within the distributed mind that is consciousness. The point is that we can’t really even call it human consciousness anymore, made up of so many non-human entities as it is. Or maybe it’s enough to say it’s not a human-centered consciousness.

The other ways of looking at this are the paths taken by Susan Blackmore (it’s the memes that are expressing themselves, not us—she even argues that the unprecedented growth in human brain size was caused by the meme-pool’s need for language, which necessitated larger brains in the carbon-based vehicles that we are…) and by Wolfram, Rucker and others who claim that life is a complex computation building itself ever better touring/Turing machines.

Information, bits, bytes, Light. Any way you look at it, we’re not quite as important as we thought we were. Of course, William Blake and the Buddha both knew this secret long before any of these moderns with their fancy-schmancy explanations.


What was the name of that book again? It sounds very much related to this idea, not to mention that quote from Picasso, “Everything you can imagine is real.” (Of course, since he also famously said, "Art is a lie that makes us realize truth,” this becomes fairly complicated (if you consider his aphorisms "artful".)

On the third hand, he also also said, “If only we could pull out our brain and use only our eyes,” so that sort of evens things out.

(Btw Mark, I still think Tommy Chong derailing a "journalist" trying to do her Paris story is funnier than an alleged "real journalist" getting all indignant about having to do a story beneath her dignity--I mean, if she were all that serious about her profession, wouldn't she have something just a little more important than this before now to put down her pretty little foot over?

6/28/2007 04:22:00 PM  
Blogger Mark said...

Hi IC. Sorry, I don't know what else to say about "Isaac", regarding your comment above.

IC said:

"Btw Mark, I still think Tommy Chong derailing a "journalist" trying to do her Paris story is funnier than an alleged "real journalist" getting all indignant about having to do a story beneath her dignity--I mean, if she were all that serious about her profession, wouldn't she have something just a little more important than this before now to put down her pretty little foot over?

I would agree. Though hey, she's Trilateral Brzezinski's daughter, you know. Is she going to get all up in arms about the world her father has designed hegemonically (the technofascism of his technocratic 'technotronic era' and all that--which she is piloting ?

From someone's short sweet review of a Zbig book:

"He stated his goals and values very clearly in an earlier book, Between Two Worlds: America's Role in the Technotronic Era, when he unequivocally stated that it would soon become possible to maintain continuous surveillance on virtually every person on the planet, and that this would support the overall goal of eliminating national sovereignties and democracies, under the leadership of an international elite-ruled global governance. He is, in short, a closet fascist. He wants, and advocates, an Orwellian society of technological surveillance under an elite-run global feudalism. I'm sure he would choose more pleasant euphemisms for global totalitarian dominance by a few wealthy bankers, financiers and intellectuals, but I will call it what it is: fascism. Read his books. But don't forget the infantile grandiosity, the supreme hubris, and the Orwellian dreams of technological global totalitarianism that is the motive behind them. His books and his own words will make that clear, if anyone is willing to wade through them."

And full circle, according to the list I posted above, her father is THE thread back to the 'alien question'...

“the study group on the aliens” aka Jason Scholars
held at: Marine Corps Base Quantico

Gordon Dean, Chairman

Zbigniew Brzezinski, study director for the first 18 months
Henry Kissinger, study director for the next phase

Dr. Edward Teller represented the scientific community...

6/28/2007 05:15:00 PM  
Blogger acl said...

Hey thanks IC, I'm not completely sold on the toolforthoughts idea or deadset against it, it was something the evoked some odd synchronicities for me so I thought you might like to take a run at it.

Some times I like to jot down whatever ideas pop into my dead as I'm reading through something like this. So its nice that you mention Wolfram because I thought of the same thing only I had his predecessor who he cribbed heavily from in mind: Konrad Zuse. In particular cellular automata are a weird, wild thing: in particular the "rules" for them don't have to be mathematical in the strictest sense. Intrinsic randomness might be a close realtive of the gnarly logic one of your links mentions above.

I also thought of Althusser and the notion of "process without a subject" and Alan Watt's discussions of nothingness.

So maybe the idea itself could be more simply stated (definitely) but I found it provocative. Sorry I don't have time to dig up links for any of the things I mention right now

6/28/2007 09:00:00 PM  
Blogger ericswan said...

If you don't mind the new age commercials, there is a great radio program with one of my heros here and now...

6/28/2007 10:34:00 PM  
Blogger CuriosityShop said...

Mark said
And full circle, according to the list I posted above, her father is THE thread back to the 'alien question'...

“the study group on the aliens” aka Jason Scholars
held at: Marine Corps Base Quantico

Gordon Dean, Chairman

Zbigniew Brzezinski, study director for the first 18 months
Henry Kissinger, study director for the next phase

Dr. Edward Teller represented the scientific community...

What a psychedelic house of mirrors everything appears to be. Unwrap one box and there is always another underneath with a brand new wrapper. And each new wrapper takes you deeper into the rabbit hole of weirdness and changes the whole picture of reality.

Some current events seem almost like they are meant to contain some secret code or message for those “in the know”. And then there’s that secret language, or Language of the Birds, and that strange language with the droids. And even if this is some viral marketing scheme, that we help give life to, feels like we are being manipulated in some strange way.

In 2000, Brzezinski began a short hiatus from CBS, during which she worked for rival MSNBC on the weekday afternoon show HomePage with co-anchors Gina Gaston and Ashleigh Banfield. She returned to CBS as a correspondent in September 2001, which thrust her into the limelight as a principal "Ground Zero" reporter for the September 11, 2001 attacks. Brzezinski was broadcasting live from the scene when the south tower collapsed

And checking out Gordon Dean
Gordon Dean (December 28, 1905 - August 15, 1958) was an American lawyer and prosecutor who served as chairman of the US Atomic Energy Commission (AEC) from 1950 to 1953.

Following government service, Dean worked as a private investment banker and as an executive of General Dynamics. Dean was killed in a commercial aviation accident over Nantucket Island on August 15, 1958.

And wiki had two links on Gordon Dean and the first one I went too was this -
Gordon Dean is a character on the American television show Alias. He was portrayed by Tyrees Allen.

Dean was the head of The Shed, a clandestine criminal organization similar to SD-6. Like SD-6, most of the operatives of the Shed believed they were working for a black ops division of the Central Intelligence Agency. Apparently only Dean and his associate Kelly Peyton knew the truth, that the Shed was actually a division of Prophet Five.

Prophet Five was started sometime during the 1970's by Oskar Mueller as a project funded by a private foundation. Parts of the project were compartmentalized, but it is known that the "best and the brightest" mathemeticians, linguists, scientists, and cryptologists, including James Lehman and the father of André Michaux, were recruited to decrypt a section of a 15th century manuscript known as the Profeta Cinque (Fifth Prophet) which was written in apparently unbreakable code. They succeeded, and discovered that the manuscript referenced proteins, nucleotides and amino acids - advanced genetics apparently ahead of its time. Lehman and Michaux assumed they were being tested, and presented their findings to a committee. The project was shut down and they were sent back to their everyday lives
Milo Giacomo Rambaldi is a fictional person from the American television series Alias. The work of Rambaldi, often centuries ahead of its time and tied to prophecy, plays a central role in the show.

The character is named after Carlo Rambaldi, the creator and operator of many special creatures for Sci-Fi movies. Rambaldi won the 1983 Best Effects-Visual Effects Oscar Award for his work on the E.T. movie creature.

6/29/2007 12:22:00 AM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

No problem, acl—it is fascinating stuff. There’s (at least) one part of it that has continued to elude me, though, which is probably no great surprise, given my mathematical blindspot. Rucker maintains that Wolfram’s “Class IV” computations (complex & unpredictable) are way beyond our computer tech for the foreseeable future, at least those responsible for naturally occurring fractal phenomena—this would include the weather, btw—and yet R & W also claim that the tiniest of electronic brains, including the most stripped down Turing machines ever developed, are actually capable of performing the same very gnarly computations as the most stupendously super computer…something does not compute here.

I’m not saying that they’re wrong—they obviously know more about this stuff than a guy who still hasn’t figured out how to email an attachment—or that this is “proof” that the worldkillers aren’t molesting the Earth’s weather; it’s just that if the smallest unit can contain within it the operating parameters of the largest computation (and these natural phenomena are computations, they tell us), then why can’t we Mandlebrot the weather the same way that Mark’s aliens embed the whole into each component of their heuristic architecture? Mind you, Rucker is very big on “As above, so below” (his book by that name on the life of Peter Bruegel is both mind-bending and life-affirming, my favorite fictional cocktail.)

Maybe I’m just missing something in their definitions, but it seems to me that we do have the math to model Nature and these guys know it…if only they’d take that alien heurist chip design idea and float with it…

This brings me (in some inscrutably heuristic fashion) to the subject of Tim Boucher and his zany Pop Occulture Blog. Mark, if you haven’t read this guy, you’re going to love it. (He used to comment here occasionally, too; heya Tim, if you’re “out there”!) The two posts of Tim’s that are relevant here are the old Welcome to the Technate! where he gives a nice overview of that sick NWO shit that Mark was just talking about, but from Tim’s somewhat different perspective, and the newer The Grand Ritual Mass Custom Conspiracy Performance, where he explains how conspiracies are really just competing musicals. (He’s right, too…of course.)

A few relevant links left floating in this ramble were the new post at Dark Truth: The Megalith Mystery (the webforce behind Planet Earth: Weapon by Sister Rosalie Bertell (a seminar by the environmental epidemiologist…you know, “ozone,haarp,chem trails,space war, Van Allen Belt nuclear explosions…”)

It kind of makes me ponder Tim’s question—who is writing all these scripts, anyway? In his great new book, The Execution Channel, Ken MacLeod has the shadow government manufacturing phony conspiracy theories to cover the real conspiracies, but they can’t quite seem to compete with the real ones…oh, what an ugly thought to end with! Okay, a quote from a review instead:

"In a world just down the road from our own, on-line bloggers vie with old-line political operatives and new-style police to determine just where reality lies..."

6/29/2007 01:29:00 AM  
Blogger Unknown said...

I don't know if any of you have seen this new documentary called ZEITGEIST. Here is a link -

It covers how Jesus was just a carbon copy of many other figures before him then gets into 91 and the creation of the federal reserve. It is one of the best of these docs that I have seen. Watch it and spread it.

6/29/2007 01:38:00 AM  
Blogger Unknown said...

sorry about the typo

6/29/2007 01:39:00 AM  
Blogger middleworld said...

A few observations on the paucity of participation in this thread, as mentioned by Mark: A few of you seem to be treating this comments section as if it is your own personal blog.

The fake moon, and bases on Saturn, or that weeping attendee of an intergalactic, interdimensional, alien peace conference are a total waste of time. Suspicious.

Which leads to another observation on all the free time some of you seem to have. Good for you. Suspicious.

When the links take us to old RI posts, the comments sections there are usually much more incisive and varied. Perhaps Jeff’s insistence that UFO reports are more credible than the trade tower’s 9-11 CD reports have lost this blog a lot of readers. His insistence that the islamic terrorists are as equal a threat as wasp bankers, blue-blood fascists and corporate/CIA undercover pedophiliac mind fuckers, is ultimately absurd. I know I was surprised that he didn’t respond when Friendly Fascism called him out a thread or two ago.

The secret state operates by a detailed understanding of human nature. Since it can’t control everything it infiltrates and pulls new shifts in awareness in it’s own direction, like an aikido master. It seems like that is happening here. You all looked through “The Stargate Conspiracy” No? Then check this out about a Course In Miracles and CIA Mind Control:

It seemed Jeff was leading this blog in a certain direction, trying to tie together high weirdness and base time political events, hinting at revelations much deeper than Zionism, all garnered from his research. But then no revelations, nothing real time just more UFO’s. Nice photoshops of Cheney, but no mention of Cheney’s blue blood lineage, or skull and bones connections, or family history of war profiteering. Or it's connections to Canada via the history of Montreal.

Also a huge international pedophile ring gets busted in the UK: must’ve had government help, no? Or help from the wasp empire, to keep control of 31 kids?

I know absolutely everything turns into absolute mystery, and studying this stuff takes you to the edge of sanity, and consciousness is everything and everything is one, but a lot of the links here still manage to be way off topic! Or what I thought was the topic, even for high weirdness.

6/29/2007 09:39:00 AM  
Blogger ericswan said...

Colin Powell leaks real reason for SSN

The American Public

I was watching Fox News Sunday this morning, 06/17/01, being hosted in

the first segment by Tony Snow. The lead off guest was Colin Powell,

the US Secretary of State. Mr. Powell gave an excellent recitation

relevant to foreign affair matters.

Mr. Powell during the entire interview was very confident, and spoke

without hesitation throughout the entire interview excluding for a one

second period, after one specific statement made by him as he was

talking about the Russian peoples. When he realized the consequences

of making this disclosure indirectly to the American public, he froze

for a second, his eyes rolled back as he realized what he had said,

and then he continued without further pause for the rest of the


In my lifetime, I have never sent out to others a post relevant to a

quote I heard while watching a news program. In this case, the

significance of what was said in the flow of truth coming from Mr.

Powell, is a statement that establishes the primary reality of intent

per the politics and operative structure coming from government in

this country. I had to immediately share what I had heard with others.

Mr. Powell was discussing Mr. Bush's trip to Europe, and was at a

point in his recitation covering certain concerns regarding Russia,

and Russia being requested to cooperate with the United States to

track down lost Nuclear materials and scientists who were unaccounted

for after the break up of Russia, that now may be in the hands of, or

in the case of the missing scientists, working for adversaries of the


The quote from Mr. Powell, per the Russian Scientists that every

American "NEEDS" to hear immediately is as follows:

[Colin Powell] - "Finding the Russian scientists may be a problem

being that Russia does not have a Social Security System, as here in

America, that allows us to MONITOR, TRACK DOWN and CAPTURE an American


6/29/2007 10:03:00 AM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

A few observations on the paucity of participation in this thread, as mentioned by Mark: A few of you seem to be treating this comments section as if it is your own personal blog.


Here’s a thought—where do you go when you’ve seen the Light? Yeah, Jeff was building some steam a year ago or so, the connections between the “events” staged by the Owners were becoming more and more clear…and then what? Your suggestion that he was then supposed to give us some truly grand revelations that would somehow be weighty or irrefutable enough to topple The Empire seems…kind of odd.

Once we’ve seen that the official story is a vast, self-perpetuating lie abetted by our institutions (the media, the scientific establishment, the “market,” etc.), what more needs to be said? What further inducement to get people off their asses is needed? Sure, it’s still useful or possibly even interesting to follow these sidebars—your fascination with the nature of consciousness is a good case in point—but Jeff’s job is done. And done well, I might add.

Does this mean that he needs to hang it up, like our friend at The Whiskey Bar did, having expressed his insights and his spleen, leaving the field in disgust and possibly despair? Or, that he must now join the world savers in their quest to fix what was so intentionally broken? I’d say, no—there are still other roads. The world saving part is the Great Work, of course, but as you know, many are called…and yet how few have stood up?

As far as the readership thing goes, I suspect that those high times you reference were the result of people first sinking their teeth into unprocessed Truth. Most have probably made that choice I mentioned above—sink or swim in more constructive waters—while the rest of us hang on because we still find interest in the sidebar topics and in just talking to each other. If you want numbers, go to the mainstream sites—they’re still packing ‘em in far, far greater numbers than the alternative dens ever have. They still argue conventional focking politics, pretending that it makes some sort of difference whether a Republican or a Democrat is elected because they cling so tenaciously to the increasing transparent tale they’ve been told since they were little.

The real visionaries have always been unpopular, mistrusted, outcast. Do you suppose that Meister Eckhart had a following to rival today’s tele-preachers? The great writers, builders and tinkers work almost unnoticed by the herd, but they keep working anyway. Check out Corpus Mmothra sometime, or Peak Energy, which is the most misnamed blog out there, or NewHeadNews—their audiences, at least in terms of those who bother to comment, are absurdly small. But is that really such a surprise? How many brain cells are there in a human compared to the total number of cells?

6/29/2007 12:50:00 PM  
Blogger just_another_dick said...

2 things of interest (to me anyway):

"They also had the benefit of footage from closed-circuit TV cameras, hoping the surveillance network that covers much of central London will help them track down the driver of the Mercedes.

The CCTV footage would be compared with license plate recognition software, British anti-terror police chief Peter Clarke said. There are 160 security cameras in the Westminster Council, the district encompassing Piccadilly Circus and the Haymarket area, alone."

Translation: Hey America, don't y'all think that we need more cameras over here.

Via Cannonfire:

comes this news piece:

"For four months, the Kuykendalls, the Prices and the McKays say, they’ve been harassed and threatened by mysterious cell phone stalkers who track their every move and occasionally lurk by their homes late at night, screaming and banging on walls.

Police can’t seem to stop them. The late-night visitors vanish before officers arrive. The families say investigators have a hard time believing the stalkers can control cell phones without touching them and suspect an elaborate hoax. Complaints to their phone companies do no good – the families say they’ve been told what the stalkers are doing is impossible.

It doesn’t feel impossible to Heather Kuykendall and her sister, Darci Price, who’ve saved and recorded scores of threatening voice mails, uttered in throaty, juvenile rasps stolen from bad horror films.

Price and Kuykendall have given the callers a name: “Restricted.” That’s the word that shows up on their caller ID windows: on the land lines at home, and on every one of their cell phones.

Their messages, left at all hours, threaten death – to the families, their children and their pets."


"The stalkers know what the family is eating, when adults leave the house, when they go to baseball games. They know the color of shirt Courtney Kuykendall, 16, is wearing. When Heather Kuykendall recently installed a new lock on the door of the house, she got a voice mail. During an interview with The News Tribune on Tuesday, she played the recording.

The stalkers taunted her, telling her they knew the code. In another message, they threatened shootings at the schools Kuykendall’s children attend."


"Messages received by the sisters include snatches of conversation overheard on cell-phone mikes, replayed and transmitted via voice mail. Phone records show many of the messages coming from Courtney’s phone, even when she’s not using it – even when it’s turned off.
McKay, a teacher in the Peninsula School District, said she and Taylor recently explained the threats to the principal at Gig Harbor High School, which Taylor attends. A Gig Harbor police officer sat in on the conversation, she said.

While the four people talked, Taylor’s and Andrea’s phones, which were switched off, sat on a table. While mother and daughter spoke, Taylor’s phone switched on and sent a text message to her mother’s phone, Andrea said."

I'd have to agree with Mr. Cannon's assessment:

"Obviously, anyone who intends actual physical harm to these people would not indulge in such an elaborate charade. If we discount the "just for laffs" theory, what do we have left?

It is perhaps worth noting that Richard Price, a member of one of the affected families, is an officer at McChord Air Force Base. That factoid leads me to suspect that these attacks constitute a psychological experiment of some sort. The military has certainly engaged in even more bizarre studies in decades past.

(Anyone who scoffs at the suggestion should look up an old book by the respected British journalist Peter Watson, called War on the Mind: The Military Uses and Abuses of Psychology, which is filled with strange-but-true anecdotes. In one chapter, the book recounts the tale of a small group of soldiers on an island who were led to believe that the rest of the world had perished in a nuclear war.)

Price's superiors and fellow officers would be in a position to track how the campaign has affected him. If the gambit succeeds in "breaking" his equilibrium and inducing paranoia, similar techniques may be applied to other targets -- for example, to a government whistleblower, or to someone like Cindy Sheehan."

All scary stuff indeed, but, since I hate cell-phones &, more frequently, their users, I'm tempted to say, "So What?"

I don't know if I'd actually fear someone monitoring all cell-phone chit-chat or pity them.

From some of the utterly banal "conversating" I've been forced, by circumstance, to overhear, such as the lady I was behind in a local department store who was dictating her exact position, moment by moment, as she made her way towards the check-out line. Or the hundreds of examples of a shopper faced with the choice between Brand A & Brand X feeling compelled to call home & discuss the relative merits of 2 products whose ingredient lists are exactly the same while I stand there fiercly repressing the urge to grab them by their shirt collars & scream, "JUST MAKE A DECISION FER CHRIST'S SAKE!!!!!"

Or my personal fave, when folk endlessly, during work hours, make calls with this kind of substance"


"What are ya doing."

"Nothing. I'm at work."

"Where ya gonna be?"

"The bar?"

Yeah, I wanna drink."

Call me."


I know that the merits of these calls are so self evident they explain why everyone on the planet NEEDS their own little Star Trek communicator, but evidently I'm so dunderheaded that self evident things constantly befuddle me & I can't help gleefully chortling, "Serves you motherfuckers right if you have your collective dipshittery turned against you."

Still, I can't escape the creepy, hair rising on the base of my neck, heebie-jeebies that I experienced while reading that story.

Go figure.

6/30/2007 12:14:00 AM  
Blogger ericswan said...

Richard...PANOPTICON knows no bounds. I have been curious to know why that "drone" needs cloaking anyway. Back in 1983, I picked up one of new fangled telephones. You was called the cordless and Radio Shack had it first. Interesting thing about that phone was the little red light that would go on when the phone was in use. Funny thing about being first on your street with a new phone was the little red light would "turn itself on" every now and then.

Torpark is an onion router that allows the user of this software to go online anonymously. The internet software is Foxfire and routes your ISP throughout the world with every new IP that you visit. Sandisk makes the USB portable hard drive up to 4 gb for less than $100.. Sandisk changed their Cruzer software so that no such thing as an anonymiser can be loaded into this cigarette sized hard drive. I wonder who they serve? Certainly not the purchaser of their handy little device.

When they track down the perps with the Mercedes using their CCTV system, you have to wonder if they won't suffer from blowback when none of the dozens of subway cameras had film during the 7/7 black op.

Go gentle into that good night.

6/30/2007 04:59:00 AM  
Blogger ericswan said...

When banks predict the future.

6/30/2007 06:54:00 AM  
Blogger phadraigin said...

i've read you for a while (thanks!) but curiously, it is the Genesis quote that moved me to write back for once (love that song, in an Evil way! hearing it in my head now, as i type.)

i don't claim to truly know shit from shinola, but what i'm picking up from you, and all the other related sources of news, insight, that, well, we are meant to be *more* than we appear. as well, we are one of those creepy species who seem inclined to enslave and use our own fellows--unusual, really, among mammals. this makes perfect sense to me, when i look around.

as i know i am NOT an enslaver, that really only leaves me the status of being do we break out of this? it's ridiculous. i see no reason why "they" should even be able to get away with it, save by some foolish con or trick--don't we ALL have the same innate abilities? let's be done with this B.S., it is time someone called their bluff! yeah, i can be killed or whatever, but i can't be forced to be afraid. screw that. i'm done playing.

6/30/2007 06:56:00 AM  
Blogger Mark said...


Rut-roh. I may have to change my mind on this "nonsense" about Vril that we were mentioning above. Gerry Vassilatos is planning a big book series on Vril...

The Vril Compendium
by Gerry Vassilatos

In past catalogues, we featured data on the Vril, a vital force of nature that was also extended to technology. Over ten volumes have been written by Gerry Vassilatos, a well known writer on suppressed science. Learn of arcane designs and remarkable inventions and more. Contact Sky Books and ask for a flyer.

Author and researcher Gerry Vassilatos has spent several years scouring Victorian scientific archives in search of the arcane, the anomalous and the amazing. The fruit of these searches is the release of a singular work of astounding depth and immense power...THE VRIL COMPENDIUM. This project is an ongoing major work which is to be published in successive complete volumes. The chief academic value of the VRIL COMPENDIUM includes the fact that its documents, photographs, articles and extracts are taken, not only from a wealth of Victorian sources, but from legally weighty ones as well, such as the U.S. Patent Register. Each volume is a treasure house of patent documents in whole form.


Gerry Vassilatos is a high school science teacher who lives in New York City. He is the author of such books as Lost Science and Secrets of Cold War Technology: Project HAARP and Beyond.


And I think this deserves mention, I was unaware a British Lord was a 'hollow earther'. Here's a little blurb on his book on the 'journey to the center of the earth theme' that was so much associated with the Vril issue in its original treatments:

Brinsley Le Poer Trench British House of Lords Member, the Earl of Clancarty, Brinsley Le Poer Trench, long campaigned the Halls of Parliament to “come clean” on “close encounters.” In his later years, he began to write of legends and myths that tell of gods from outer space who ruled over Atlantis and were the progenitors of our civilization. He tells how, during a long battle, the Atlanteans were forced to escape from the surface and move to the inner earth where they reside today. Includes Byrd’s lost voyage, the central sun, the Shaver Mystery, etc. Over 200 pages that will fascinate all.....

more detailed. So who is cribbing from whom, Jules Verne or Brinsley Le Poet Trench--or the same source....

In addition to being the author of numerous books on UFOs and extraterrestrial archeology, Brinsley Le Poet Trench was for several decades the editor of the prestigious British Flying Saucer Review. But, his greatest influence came about as a member of England's House of Lords.

Trench, who held the title Earl of Clancarty, long campaigned in the Halls of Parliment for the Crown to "come clean" on matters related to close encounters.

While the Earl strongly endorsed the theory that aliens have been coming here since the dawn of creation, toward the end of his career, his ideas took on a stranger turn, encompassing the notion that an ancient "pre-Noahan" civilization existed in what we commonly refer to as the Lost Continent of Atlantis.

Intermingling with this Atlantean culture were space beings arriving regularly for various reasons -- some beneficial, some destructive. "The result of which," says Brinsley, "is a long panoramic narrative in the form of legends and myths, telling us of gods that come from outer space, who ruled over Atlantis and were the progenitors of our own civilization. They also fought terrible wars, and made grotesque monsters and giants with reptilian legs (and bodies), that turned upon the gods themselves."

Trench adds that the Atlanteans tried to escape the surging chaos by using thermal drills and electron ray guns to bore out a massive tunnel system that extends even to this very day from the surface to the hollow core of our planet. There the Atlantians still lie in peace and tranquility away from the war-like elements upon the surface.

In this book, the author takes the reader on an exploration like no other. Here are tales of polar openings, hidden civilizations, strange underground races, Admiral Byrd's Top Secret discoveries, the central sun, the Shaver Mystery and much more that will open your eyes to a new reality like never before!

Denis Crenshaw of the Hollow Earth Insider has added a lengthy new introduction bringing the topic up to date and there are some mind blowing photos of the entrances at the North and South Poles."

His wiki-bio. He died in 1995. I would be fascinated how he backs up these claims or where he got his source. He looks damn serious.

William Francis Brinsley Le Poer Trench (September 18, 1911–May 18, 1995) was 8th Earl of Clancarty (an earldom in the Peerage of Ireland), Marquess van Heusden in the peerage of the Netherlands, as well as a prominent ufologist.

He was the fifth son of the 5th Earl of Clancarty and Mary Gwatkin Ellis. He was educated at the Nautical College, Pangbourne.

Clancarty was a firm believer in flying saucers, and in particular, the Hollow Earth theory. He claimed that he could trace his descent from 63,000BC, when beings from other planets had landed on Earth in spaceships. Most humans, he said, were descended from these aliens: "This accounts for all the different colour skins we've got here," he said in 1981. A few of these early aliens did not come from space, he explained, but emerged through tunnels from a civilisation which "still existed beneath the Earth's crust." There were seven or eight of these tunnels altogether, one at the North Pole, another at the South Pole, and others in such places as Tibet. [shades of Shambhala..] "I haven't been down there myself," Clancarty said, "but from what I gather [these beings] are very advanced."

[What does it mean "from what he gathers..."?? Gathers from who/what?]

* 1 Career
* 2 Bibliography
* 3 Private life
* 4 Reference


From 1956 to 1959 he edited the Flying Saucer Review and founded the International Unidentified Object Observer Corps. He also found employment selling advertising space for a gardening magazine housed opposite Waterloo Station. In 1967, he founded Contact International and served as its first president.

He also served as vice-president of the British UFO Research Association (BUFORA) and was an honorary life member of the Ancient Astronauts Society.

When he succeeded to the earldom (created in 1803) on the death of his half-brother, Grenville Sydney Rocheforte, 7th Earl of Clancarty, in 1975 he founded a UFO Study Group at the House of Lords, and introduced Flying Saucer Review to its library."

On Shambhala:

The Western fascination with Shambhala has often been based upon fragmented accounts of the Kalachakra tradition, or outright fabrications. Tibet was largely closed to outsiders until very recently, and so what information was available about the tradition of Shambhala was haphazard at best[6].

The first information that reached western civilization about Shambhala came from a Portuguese Jesuit priest and explorer, Estêvão Cacella, in early 17th century. The Hungarian scholar Alexander Csoma de Köros, writing in 1833, provided the first geographic account of 'a fabulous country in the north...situated between 45' and 50' north latitude'.

During the 19th century, Theosophical Society founder H.P. Blavatsky alluded to the Shambhala myth, giving it currency for Western occult enthusiasts. H.P. Blavatsky compiled a fifteen-hundred-page, two-volume synthesis of Eastern wisdom, evolutionary science and races - The Secret Doctrine. The Secret Doctrine made an especially powerful impression in Germany, refueling the 'theories' of the Third Reich about the Aryan master Race. Those 'theories' preoccupied two major figures in the Third Reich - Heinrich Himmler and Rudolf Hess leading to the German Tibet expeditions (1930, 1934-5, 1938-9)[7]. Later esoteric writers further emphasized and elaborated on the concept of a hidden land inhabited by a hidden mystic brotherhood whose members labor for the good of humanity.

The mystic Nicholas Roerich[8] and the Soviet agent Yakov Blumkin led two Tibetan expeditions to discover Shambhala, in 1926 and 1928."

So when's RI's trip to Iceland...? ;-)

6/30/2007 01:20:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

Hey thanks, phadraigin —those things do stick to the mind’s ribs, don’t they? I also concur with this resolute indomitability of yours—I mean, okay, they’ve got their bloody panopticon, they’ve got radio transmitters in the underwear you buy (for marketing purposes, they say--marketing crews apparently drive around Suburbia pointing scanners at houses to determine where we're buying our consumer goods), they’re fertilizing us with chem trails, etc, etc, but aren’t we still able to say “fuck off, evil thugs—I will not practice your cannibalism on my fellow man!” ?

I also sense a search for hidden, higher purposes in your thoughts. Materialists be damned, we are more than the sum of our parts.

Here’s a great example of where these notions can be dissected, although I don't really agree agree with the POV that this guy employs: Sentient Developments (Transhumanist and technoprogressive perspectives on science, philosophy, ethics, and the future of intelligent life~~George P. Dvorsky's Blog). This guy is a transhumanist who wants to transcend the code he’s been given, a position I’m not really against, in principle—if he wants to grow wings or gills or make himself smarter than me, is it really any skin off my back? If someone could fix the disability I have by tinkering with my genes, I’d be sorely tempted.

On the other hand, maybe it really is a Pandora’s box. Much has been written in speculative circles about the cheapening of life through the introduction of casual cloning and monstrous hybrids. Remember the strange mention of this in the Leader’s 2006 state of the Union address? (I don’t know what compelled me to tune in to that broadcast, but I did…) My initial reaction was that if he’s against it, I’m for it, but that’s a bit oversimplified.

If you step back and compare this to the common, very sane reaction to GM crops (bad news, don’t do it!), then the question of humans fiddling with their codes becomes a bit more complex. One of the biggest arguments against GM crops is that their tweaked genes will find their way into the plant kingdom’s genepool—could this also be the case of those who suddenly sprout strange appendages and/or mental faculties?

The problem lies in our inability to project comprehensive models of what might happen, which brings us back to Rucker & Wolfram…

Dvorsky goes even further with this notion, tackling the thorniest issue of all: eugenics. The post I’m thinking of is Neugenic Nation, which I find fascinating, if not entirely honest. In his desire to 'win the argument,' Dvorsky twists the facts a bit, as we see in this passage:

Dysgenics and Neugenics

But what does it mean to oppose eugenics? When one is anti-eugenics what does that actually entail?

There's an old truism (or is that an old Rush lyric?) which states that even when you choose not to decide you still have made a choice. A similar thing can be said about those who oppose eugenics. By consequence, detractors have unconsciously positioned themselves as being either dysgenicists or neugenicists.

Dysgenics is the notion that humans should genetically regress from an evolutionary standpoint and default to harmlessness. Yes, there are people who actually believe we should do this (which, I suppose, is not nearly as bad as the misanthropic Voluntary Human Extinction Movement). Such a standpoint can be interpreted as a kind of oxymoronic Luddite transhumanism where progress is measured not by the increase or refinement of physical and psychological capacities, but instead by their regression. The ultimate goal would be to see civilizations whither away and have devolved humans return to the jungle.

Neugenics, which is the majority bioethical opinion today (and most notably the opinion of bioconservatives, human exceptionalists, and anti-transhumanists), is the conviction that the human genome must not be deliberately altered to any significant degree. The general idea is that Homo sapiens are fine just they way they are and that enhancement will only lead to greater societal discord and/or diminished lives (i.e. a case of more being less). The underlying assumption is that God or nature has already optimized human beings; human enhancement would only knock over this fragile house of cards.

First off, the second link in that passage goes to forbidden archeologist Michael A. Cremo’s HUMAN DEVOLUTION: A VEDIC ALTERNATIVE TO DARWIN'S THEORY page, and while Cremo is a bit of a nut, his argument is the opposite of how Dvorsky portrays it. Cremo believes that we have not evolved from lower life forms, but actually devolved from spiritual beings of pure energy, that we have taken on these limited forms for ignoble reasons. So, he’s actually supporting Dvorsky’s premise, in a very roundabout manner, in that we should somehow transcend this prison of weak skin & bones.

The last thing I’m going to talk about here is the last sentence I quoted, although there’s a good deal more in Dvorsky’s post:

The underlying assumption is that God or nature has already optimized human beings; human enhancement would only knock over this fragile house of cards.

I guess I’m a little irked by Dvorsky’s apparent belief that this house of cards isn’t fragile. I’ve been reading Kellert & Wilson’s The Biophilia Hypothesis recently, where I learned some very alarming things (as well as some quite encouraging news). The first essay in TBH is by Scott McVay who was struck by a line from Melville’s Moby Dick that seemed to sum up our connection to the life of the Earth:

“I saw that this situation of mine was the precise situation of every mortal that breathes; only in most cases, he, one way or another, has this Siamese connexion with a plurality of other mortals.”

Kellert & Wilson present a complex and convincing argument that the greatest danger facing us as a species is the loss of biodiversity—in 1993 they wrote that 20% of the species on/of Earth would disappear within 30 years if we didn’t stop the death spiral. They go on to explicate all the reasons why biodiversity matters to us as a species. Dvorsky’s transhumanism doesn’t seem to take this into account at all—he seems to think we’re 'advanced' enough to engineer ourselves in virtual isolation from the rest of Life, a proposition that makes Frankenwheat seem tame by comparison.


Do I have to comb through all these threads to find that book you were talking about, or are you going to help a guy out?


Vassilatos' Lost Science is great, great stuff--not at all what I'd call "fringe". If you're interested in the Hollow Earth meme, you've got to check out my boy Rucker's version, which brings Edgar Allen Poe into the story--the best version I've seen yet.

Much as I'd like to go back to Snorri Sturluson's stomping grounds again, the best entrance might be in the melting Antarctic...

6/30/2007 02:08:00 PM  
Blogger ericswan said...

This middle earth stuff just won't go away..

Within LOTR are the "seeing stones" and as Tolkien wrote, " Not all are accounted for." The three crystal balls are interesting in that they were apparently used to determine a number of things.

Crystals are found underground and look like a glass however inside there is a prism which divides the rays of the light. During Paradise Time,when a child was born, a crystal sphere was taken to a dark room or the Temple where one candle of light divided the Prism of light into rays. Rays at the surface of the crystal sphere were like stars of the whole universe that shone on the Temple wall. In this way, from the crystal sphere, was seen where the stars were located in the sky.

Constellations are part of the star system and every star belonged to some constellation. When a child was born from the sperm of the breeder, the child received a name from a star from the constellation of his breeder. His first child became the first star, the second named by the second star and so on. The star system enabled people to see their brother and sister in right order in the stars of the night sky. When someone died they could be still thought of by looking at the stars and their place of order in the family. After Paradise Time, during star nights one could go out to watch the stars of the relatives or one's own star, which shone from the light of Oden and so one could honour the whole family.

Stars consist of different metals. Solar rays hit the stars, which reflect the rays in the eyes of the humans. Because of this, people are born under different stars and this has it's own effects upon each person, which was understood by Astrology: which was the study of the sun, moon and stars. Solar rays had great importance: when the solar rays hit the moon, which is metal, these rays reflect in the eyes of the human and was an important symbolism of the moon. According to astrology, rays of the sun create all green leaves, which turn to mold. From this mold, seeds sprouts which enables new growth. In this way Oden created the Earth.

One was able to communicate with any person holding one of the other crystal balls and so these are the "seeing stones", the crystal balls buried with each golden Bock.

Will myth change back to legend once more and become life as we know it or be forever lost in the midst of subservience to a system of illogical control of a hierarchy based on ill beginnings, false records, and denial of our true history and true inheritance? Will we also go to the grey havens and depart forever?

To continue to falsify our history, our origins and our heritage - using a science that is crumbling day by day - is as clear a sign that the old Rings of Power are indeed loosing their power. Much of academia is based upon what the churches allowed to be taught, yet many still try to deny this. Our known history relies upon documentation that has barley existed for a thousand years, yet scoffs at a history intact that reaches far back in thousands of years.

6/30/2007 02:26:00 PM  
Blogger just_another_dick said...

IC, your appeal has been heard....nothing personal pal, I've just been working a lot & I don't have time to read through everything.

Influence: Science and Practice by Robert B. Cialdini.

It's actually turned out to be a good book. My problem with it strikes at the heart of my distrust of academia.
When books like this, encompassing a wide array of sociological & psychological studies of the human animal, are published, the people who should be reading it won't get within miles of it, while the folk who only use this info to further enable their flummoxing of the rest of us, gobble it up like cherry pie.
It's in the "business" section fer Buddha's sake.

7/01/2007 12:14:00 AM  
Blogger Mark said...

One more thing related to the Jason Society mentioned above as 'the' venue dealing with the 'alien question' for the U.S. military. There was actually a book about "The Jasons" published last year...

It would be interesting to note what names the author mentions when she does...

The Jasons: The Secret History of Science's Postwar Elite by Ann Finkbeiner ((2006)

From Publishers Weekly
If necessity is the mother of invention, then the U.S. government's midwife for much of the Cold War was a small, brilliant and fiercely independent cadre of physicists who assembled each summer to make scientific reality out of pie-in-the-sky ideas. [or alien technology back-engineering priority/strategy sessions?] Ingenious problem-solvers to a man (they were, for decades, an all-boys club), "the Jasons" (a nickname of uncertain origin; it's either taken from the Greek myth, Jason and the Argonauts, or an acronym for the months of July through November) agreed to help the government--and cash its checks--on the condition that their work be free from political influence; if the Pentagon or White House proposed a project the group found absurd or ethically reprehensive, they would say so in their typically blunt, intellectually arrogant manner. However, the smartest people in the room weren't always the savviest, and the Jasons found their work manipulated by the military to suit its own purposes. At least that's the story as told by Finkbeiner, who spent two years interviewing dozens of Jasons past and present and doesn't hesitate to give them the benefit of every doubt that's arisen in the group's shadowy, five-decade history, particularly those dealing with the Jasons' involvement in Vietnam.

Nonetheless, Finkbeiner offers a rare and valuable look at the intersection of world politics, military strategy and scientific discovery.


From Booklist
At a dinner honoring Freeman Dyson, Finkbeiner heard the physicist allude to government advisors called "the Jasons," a group little known except to Pentagon insiders. The first author to devote a book to the Jasons, Finkbeiner explains that they are a self-selecting cadre of scientists independent of the government who evaluate military technologies [sic] at the frontier of physical feasibility. Intrigued, Finkbeiner sought interviews with Jasons. Some jovially consented, others refused, and two guardedly agreed if identified as "Dr. X" and "Dr. Y." The reasons for anonymity are emblematic themes in Finkbeiner's fascinating account: Dr. X didn't want to reveal too much about the Jasons' secret work; Dr. Y didn't want to be hassled by antimilitary zealots at her university.

So the dilemma between the "technically sweet," as Finkbeiner aptly quotes Robert Oppenheimer, and the morally objectionable courses through her account of the Jasons' brainstorming about weaponry at annual summer retreats since their founding in 1960. [ she says...perhaps this was misinformation, or a more open spinoff several years later of the earlier group?]

Readers interested in the politics of science will become deeply absorbed in Finkbeiner's original organizational history."

7/01/2007 12:36:00 AM  
Blogger middleworld said...

Kudos to the Mohawks and the Algonquins in Ottowa, and Shawn Brandt. Now that is getting the job done.

We have to get out in the street people.

OK, so the government and the elite of USA/empire are about to bomb Iran, send the world into chaos, and Jeff takes us away from compelling evidence of controlled demolition on 9-11, the general inside nature of which did finally seem to be building up some steam, because it smacks of disinfo and association with wackdoodle fringism to discuss theories of time? Dylan ignores politics for art and fame, Jeff ignores politics for UFO’s? But they were going to make a leader out of Dylan, and/or he was going to get marginalized, but Jeff is no leader and Jeff is already marginalized.

The only thing empire has ever responded to is bodies in the street. Bodies refusing to participate. Moral insanity and moral indifference are raging, and here, the best and brightest were gathering for research and community. It appears the research has stopped on empire and been subtly shifted into the unknowable. Worse, into UFO’s, which are interesting, but have been shown to have associations with right wing cultism. The other aspect of right-wing cultism right now is demonizing islam, which was Jeff’s big fear about CD, that it was ignoring islamic terrorism. When the entire western world is focusing on it, we should be ignoring it. Except follow the money.

I’m not expecting a revelation from Jeff that grinds empire to a halt. Just follow up with all these hints he’s been dropping about the power behind the power. Maybe there is no power behind the power. Is it just the CIA and the blue blood American and European elite bankers? The war, drug and slave lovers. With a technocratic focus and a fringe of occult pedophilia. That’s it. Cool it with the coy come-ons then. Or is it alien DNA manipulation? Is that where we are heading? Or maybe it is the Devil? Is that it? Or do we just need another election? Get rid of these bad republicans?

At least interesting stuff about the Jason scholars came out in this thread. But otherwise it seems we are being led away from any information sharing that actually shines light on the moral rot consuming us. And as we know, that is what power is best at. Bread and circuses. This place is getting like a circus.

Kudos to the Mohawks and the Algonquins in Ottowa, and Shawn Brandt. Now that is getting the job done.

We have to get out in the street people.

7/01/2007 08:46:00 AM  
Blogger CuriosityShop said...

Everthing that "they" do has a little side effect that they hadn't planned on.

They are not as smart as we give them credit for. Oh smart yes, they have been studying the human psyche for eons. Manipulating us, drugging us, testing us.

Why? For What?

Seems to me that they just might be a little afraid of us. And don't want to lose control.

9/11 was a lot more than a pre-entry into another war for profit. It was a stargate doorway for many of us to go searching for the truth about ourselves.

Was that an unplanned side effect or did someone who has studied us for years, know that that would happen and wanted it to happen...

Just like the CIA testing LSD in the sixties had an unplanned side effect on a whole generation that "woke up" and is still waking up, but you have to admit that the sixties brought a HUGE amount of new thinking and creativity.

I felt like I was scolded by a comment for being "off topic" a few comments back, so decided he was right, but there is a magnetic pull here, and Jeff is you become annoyed that I/we are off topic please say so.... and my apologies up front.

People come in myriad shapes and sizes and types. Just like flowers in a garden. And some of us are weeds to others, but weeds can be beautiful.

I took the time to watch that movie Zeitgeist recommended by poster Jason (coincidence of a name). It was very good and very slickly done. Not some amateur. I like the movie but I question who made it and where it came from.

by Joni Mitchell

I came upon a child of God
He was walking along the road
And I asked him where are you going
And this he told me
I'm going on down to Yasgur's farm
I'm going to join in a rock 'n' roll band
I'm going to camp out on the land
I'm going to try an' get my soul free

We are stardust
We are golden
And we've got to get ourselves
Back to the garden

Then can I walk beside you
I have come here to lose the smog
And I feel to be a cog in something turning
Well maybe it is just the time of year
Or maybe it's the time of man
I don't know who I am
But you know life is for learning

We are stardust
We are golden
And we've got to get ourselves
Back to the garden

By the time we got to Woodstock
We were half a million strong
And everywhere there was song and celebration
And I dreamed I saw the bombers
Riding shotgun in the sky
And they were turning into butterflies
Above our nation

We are stardust
Billion year old carbon
We are golden
Caught in the devil's bargain
And we've got to get ourselves
back to the garden

Copyright © Siquomb Publishing Company
Today I took a walk in Cannonball Park, just across from my home.

The Verrazano Bridge stands at the foot of the park
crossing the Atlantic Ocean to Staten Island.

I walked to the far end of the park, at the foot,
the columns, the tuning forks, of the bridge.

I turned back to survey the long grassy field I had just crossed.

No one was around.

I smiled as I noticed the dandelions.

Observe the matrix of this dandelion.


Then I understood .....

I have always heard this phrase in my mind,
"Dandelions Are Free!"

It symbolizes the freedom of the souls.

Leo the Lion- The Lion is Zarathrustra, Z. Dan=DNA.

The incomplete flower of life can be found on several pillars within "The Osirion"(The tomb of Osiris) at Abydos in Egypt.The Osirion is known to be the oldest building in Egypt.World secret societies have made sure,we either ignore the flower or have our attention drawn towards other ancient sites.They have taken great care in keeping the significance of the flower hidden.You wont find the complete flower on any Drunvalo site!If you contemplate the complete flower it will open a part of the mind which has been lost (hidden) to modern man.
We are stardust
Billion year old carbon
We are golden
Caught in the devil's bargain
And we've got to get ourselves
back to the garden

I am a metaphor hunter. So many things are many more things and on and on and on

Journey to the Center of the Earth, ever thought how that could just mean the journey to the secret of you, there are scary things and wonders along the way, and if you persevere you find a golden sun inside of you.

A star.

7/01/2007 09:16:00 AM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

Thanks, Richard. My library doesn't seem to own it, although they do have two earlier psychology of influence pieces by Cialdini: Influence--how and why people agree to things, and then a sound recording called:Instant Influence, which is described as follows:

tape 1. The principle of reciprocity ; The principle of scarcity -- tape 2. The principles of authority and consensus ; The principles of commitment & consistency and liking, by Robert B. Cialdini.

Now, it strikes me that even with these two earlier works (1984, 1995), Cialdini was getting at something that we've all talked about before (many times, with many different degrees of agreement) and which is actually very much connected with middleworld's comments.

Most of us aren't even aware of the extent of the bill of goods we've been sold.

Sure, we know that governments lie, we know that money is power and that the notion that all men are equal in the eye of the law is complete and utter bullshit because money is power. Some of us have even looked into the real history of what our governments have done in secret (but still allegedly in our name and in our "interests")...but nothing will come of these revelations without a unifying narrative that gives them their real context.

Take Shawn Brant. His protest actions are awesome and inspiring, sure, but his demands are too modest to effect meaningful change for his people. All he wants is some small attempt at parity, subsistence level access to land, water & education. And how has this modest request been perceived?

The mounties are scared, so they're treading lightly, for now. The general public in Canada is mostly sympathetic, if also fairly ignorant of the history which has put the indigenous people of the world in such a predicament, but then you also have the upholders of the status quo who have whipped out the ready-made definition of "terrorist" shipped north by Homeland Security in the wake of their mostly successful state terror event back in '01. Check out what the wackos at Caledonia Wake Up Call! are saying about Shawn Brant.

The funny thing is that, by their logic at least, they're right! No one has the right to disrupt the economy of the Empire for even one day. If these people just gave up their primitive ways and joined McHumanity™, everything would be just fine...

What I'm getting at here is that very, very few people realize the extent of the sham that's been perpetuated and, as Richard talks about from Cialdini's insight, the compliance we've exhibited with the scam. I don't know how many of these threads you've been following here, but it's not just the interesting-but-far-out stuff that we've been talking about here.

In a great many threads we've talked about how easy it would be to make Earth into a garden planet again. We've explained why Malthus and the Club of Rome are wrong; we've shown that we don't need no stinkin' oil (nor the pursuit of political hegemony in the acquisition thereof); we've discussed how we could feed the world, raise the standard of living enough to stabilize population growth, reclaim & detoxify the land and its watery arteries and make every bioregion self-sufficient and autonomous.

All this, mind you, from Jeff Wells' peek-behind-the-curtain blog; not even the so-called worldchanging, greenest green sustainability sites go that far...because they're still blinded by the myth of scarcity, conditioned by the place of the "market" in human affairs.

Now, this isn't to suggest that we're exactly all on the same wavelength here, or that we all believe that human race can still pull this off in the 11th hour (my buddy Richard and I have bloodied each other repeatedly on this issue), but we do all share the belief that we've been lied to serially about nearly everything and this is what is still missing in the consciousness of the greater public. This is why Shawn Brant won't be able to change the conditions his people face significantly: he's not asking for enough!

As for those poor fools who think that voting for Obama or storming the Black Gate in D.C. will change anything...well, they still haven't seen enough of the big picture to know what they're up against.

So, yeah, we do talk about some strange things here, things that may have no obvious connection to the Struggle, but that's not to say that's all we do. As to the notion that we have to stay on message and only talk about the way things should be because if we don't, then we must be disinfo agents...please.

One last item. If 9/11 were reopened (or, actually looked at for what it was for the first time), what would it reveal? Why, the nexus of state terror, which in turn would lead to the unveiling of the real machinations of the military industrial complex, which would shed light on the complicity of the media in the swindle, which would then illustrate the nature of business and the manipulation of scarcity (real & imaginary) upon which the Empire is based.

Are the institutions we have to carry out such investigations capable of demonstrating their own complicity? Do we imagine they're either independent enough or have the resources to turn on the hand that feeds them? Or, is it the job of the everyman, little guys like us, to fill in the true colors of the world, so that the world might see what's been done to it and, even more importantly, where we go from here?

7/01/2007 12:19:00 PM  
Blogger Mark said...


I hope you consider publishing your collected little essays someday, IC.


CuriosityShop, you might want to check your surface view of Woodstock at the door. Look who organized it. Read:

Title: "It Was Twenty Years Ago Today,"...That Crowley Drugged World Away: CIA psyops of 1960s-
2006.06.24 05:28
Description: extended comments from Jeff Wells' Rigorous Intuition "v.2.0" post at: --on the CIA infiltration (and creation) of the 1960s, in a right wing attempt to steer culture toward some rather dark goals and keep rock and roll "from going leftist".

the excerpt:

Woodstock as a CIA experiment

The largest concert after Monterey Pop, the "Woodstock Music and Art Fair," would be what [Mockingbird driven] Time magazine celebrated as an "Aquarian Festival"' and "history's largest happening."

At Woodstock, a small town in upstate New York, nearly half a million youth gathered to be drugged and brainwashed on a farm [by the CIA]. The victims were isolated, immersed in filth, pumped with psychedelic drugs, and kept awake continuously for three straight days, and all with the full complicity of the FBI and government officials. Security for the concert was provided by a hippie commune [specially flown in from New Mexico, and their isolated "Hog Farm", on a privately charted Boeing 727 for $17,000 dollars. They were trained in the mass distribution of LSD and connected to the CIA].

Once again, it would be the networks of British military intelligence which would be the initiators. Woodstock was the brain child of Artie Kornfeld, the director of EMI's Capitol Record's, Contemporary Projects Division.

The original funding was provided by the heir of a large Pennsylvania-based pharmaceutical company, John Roberts, and two other partners.

It was another pharmaceutical company, the Swiss-based Sandoz Laboratories, which had first synthesized LSD. Roberts would later be accused of using his company for the mass drugging of the attendees.

Little adequate preparations were made for the nearly half a million people who came. Joel Rosenman, one of the three partners [with John Roberts], writes, as the concert neared, "Food and water were clearly going to be in short supply, sanitary facilities overtaxed, tempers short, drugs overabundant. Worst of all, there was no way for anyone who wanted to, to leave."

A hippie commune called the Hog Farm, had a special role at Woodstock. The Hog Farm was led by a man nicknamed Wavy Graver,... .who was a former member of Ken Kesey's MK-Ultra operation, the Merry Pranksters.

Communes like the Hog Farm were commonly found in the remote parts of California and served as the breeding grounds for Satanic cults [and MKULTRA programming], as well as terrorist groups. Members of these communes continually interchanged with other communes and were the recruiting grounds for the Process Church and Manson. [For instance,] Hog Farm member Diane Lake was a member of Charles Manson's Family, at the time of the massacre of Sharon Tate and her guests.

On August 14, one day before the scheduled opening, the entire festival security force, comprised of 350 off-duty New York City cops, pulled out. A spokesman for the New York police claimed that no official arrangement was ever made with the city, a claim the promoters vehemently denied. In an August 15, 1969 New York Times article, the head of Woodstock's security said, "Now I don't have any security at all. I've been struck. We're having the biggest collection of kids there's ever been in this country without any police protection." Not surprisingly, the [CIA MKULTRA linked] Hog Farm was put in charge of security.

Woodstock funder and director John Roberts, openly admitted that he was well aware of the Hog Farm's connection to drug distribution. He writes, "their fee was [zero, and] simply transportation to and from the festival... a peace-keeping force that looked, talked, and smelled like the crowd would be both highly credible and highly effective...

The Hog Farm at the time was living in New Mexico's mountains. Roberts [the heir of a large Pennsylvania-based pharmaceutical company], chartered a Boeing 727, at a cost of $17,000, and flew 100 of them to New York.

To clear the final path for the planned drugging of half a million youngsters [to see what happens], the district attorney for the area agreed privately that there would be no arrests or prosecutions for violations of drug laws.

[The heir of a large Pennsylvania-based pharmaceutical company], John Roberts writes, "The District Attorney...recognized early on that many of our customers would be using illegal drugs...

Roberts also writes that he was meeting continuously with the FBI up to and including one day before the start of the concert, and had their full cooperation.

The Experiment Begins

Two days before the scheduled start of the concert, 50,000 kids had already arrived in Woodstock. Drugs immediately began to circulate [from the Hog Farm CIA groups]. Many people brought their babies and, as Roberts says, even they were drugged. Roberts writes that at a nearby lake, "the tots swam naked, smoked grass, and got into the music."

A poll conducted at the festival by the New York Times showed that 99 percent of those attending were using marijuana. Local sheriff deputies, totally overwhelmed, reported that no arrests were being made for drug use. The New York Times of August 17 quoted one deputy," If we did (make arrests), there isn't enough space in Sullivan or the next three counties to put them in."

Following the design of the original MK-Ultra project, the mass distribution of LSD came next, much of it in LSD-laced Coca Cola, as Kesey's [Merry CIA] Pranksters had done five years earlier [in San Francisco—and the Hog Farm had links to Kesey of course].

For the next three days, the nearly half a million young people that arrived were subjected to continual drugs and rock music. Because of torrential rains, they were forced to wallow in knee-deep mud. There were no shelters, and no way to get out. Cars were [intentionally kept distant and] parked over eight miles away. Rosenman writes that the key to the "Woodstock experiment"' was "keeping our performers performing around the keep the kids transfixed..."

Within the first 24 hours, over 300 kids reported to medical authorities, violently ill. The diagnosis: they were having "bad" LSD trips. Thousands more would follow. On August 17, the New York Times reported: "Tonight, a festival announcer warned from the stage, that 'badly manufactured acid' (a term for LSD) was being circulated. He said: 'You aren't taking poison acid. The acid's not poison. It's just badly manufactured acid. You are not going to die.... So if you think you've taken poison, you haven't. But if you're worried, just take half a tablet.'"

The advice, to nearly 500,000 people, "just take half a tablet" was given by none other than MK-Ultra agent Wavy Gravy.

With a growing medical emergency on hand, a call went out to New York City for emergency medical personnel. Over 50 doctors and nurses were flown in.

By the end of Woodstock, a total of 5,000 medical cases were reported.


Just to complete a thought: Back to Iapetus, perhaps the most interesting thing in the whole solar system besides Earth. For those who think Iapetus is annoying, just skip it.

More on the "why Cassini” issue--the one who discovered as well as presumably gave Iapetus that loaded name. This gets into some hairy occult issues.

Besides Earth, where we know that there are artificial structures and life, Iapetus is a great candidate for huge artificiality—with even the entire thing being artificial. Who gives it this loaded name Ipapetus, the father of Prometheus (with Prometheius in Greek mythology being the human who stoke god-like fire/powers) when you can barely even see it back in the 1600s when it was discovered with a 2 inch wide glass telescope?


Discovered By
G.D. Cassini

Date of Discovery

Here's Hoagland's view once more where he gets into implications of propulsion of such a fake moon:

If Iapetus is a modified moon/spacecraft, developed by an advanced interplanetary/interstellar civilization … then it is foreordained to have embodied physics and engineering far beyond of any current capabilities or even theories.

Ergo: it was NOT propelled by “rockets.”

If Einstein’s UFT ideas, or any of the modern variants which have evolved -- from super strings to M-brane theory – can ultimately be engineered into workable technologies for literally bending space and time ... then, all bets are off. Anything could be waiting inside Iapetus … if we return.

Only one thing now seems clear:

Whoever designed it, for whatever ultimate objective, if our “insider” physicist is correct in observing “…one way of thinking of an antigravity device is to think of it as an unusual form of electrical motor …”, then the mystery of Iapetus ~60,000-foot-high “wall” may now be close to resolution…as the massive field coils of a world-sized, anti-gravity propulsion system...which may have literally carried Iapetus between the stars…setting in motion a series of extraordinary events, stretching across literally billions of ensuing years…

If that is true, then its very name – “Iapetus” … the father of Prometheus, the “maker of Mankind” --- is eerie foreshadowing of all we might one day confirm ….

Could that stark possibility – that, in Iapetus, we are confronting our very origins …

Who gives a little moon off Saturn such a starkly loaded name 'without knowing' about it, much less able to see it much? Cassini discovered and I guess named Iapetus. The current probe moving in gravitational arcs around Saturn right now is called Cassini as well--even though they aren't publicly revealing juicy stuff about Iapetus currently...

For the Cassinis and their context, occult family sort of jumps to mind when you notice a decided 'induction' form of father to son over four generations in the same line of work, as well as his 'start' in astrology, and many of them being born actually in the astronomical observatory itself according to their biographies.

The people who sponsored Cassini originally were from Bologna in Northern Italy, the Malvasias, part of the hereditary elite ruling the city and competing culturally and politically with next door neighbors in occult Florence, the Medicis. Both the Malvasias (Bologne) and the Medicis (Florence) had high level family connections with the French crown, described below. The first European secular university of Bologna, Northern Italy, is additionally prominent in the story.

Malvasia is actually a form of wine, which immediately has religious connotations in European history:

A competing theory holds that the name is derived from the district of Malevizi, near the city of Heraklion (known to the Venetians as Candia) on Crete.[2][3] In any case, Malmsey was one of the three major wines exported from Greece in medieval times. (For other examples, see Rumney wine and Cretan wine).

Both Monemvasia and Candia have lent their names to modern grape varieties. In Greece, there is a variety known as Monemvasia, evidently named after the port, though now grown primarily in the Cyclades. In western Europe, a common variety of Malvasia is known as Malvasia Bianca de Candia, from its reputed origin in that area. The Monemvasia grape was long thought to be ancestral to the western European Malvasia varieties, however, recent DNA analysis does not suggest a close relationship between Monemvasia and any Malvasia varieties. DNA analysis does, however, suggest that the Athiri wine grape (a variety widely planted throughout Greece) is ancestral to Malvasia.[4][5] Whatever its precise origin, the ancestor to the modern Malvasia varieties must have spread westwards through Mediterranean lands in medieval times, its final leap to Madeira taking place soon after the Portuguese began to settle the island in the fifteenth century.

The Cassini astronomers, four of them all in the same position for the King of France from the late 1600s through the 1790s.


* Giovanni Domenico Cassini (1625-1712), also known as Jean-Dominique Cassini, Italian-French astronomer; discovered and named Iapetus

* Jacques Cassini (1677-1756), French astronomer, son of Giovanni Domenico

* César-François Cassini de Thury (1714-1784), French astronomer and cartographer, son of Jacques

* Dominique, comte de Cassini (1748-1845), French astronomer and cartographer, son of César-François

The 'first original Cassini' and discoverer of Iapetus was an astronomer at the Panzano Observatory, from 1648 to 1669. He was a professor of astronomy at the University of Bologna and became in 1671 [the year he discovered/named Iapetus], director of the Paris Observatory for the French King. He thoroughly adopted his new country, to the extent that he became interchangeably known as Jean-Dominique Cassini —although that is also the name of his great-grand-son. Along with Robert Hooke, Cassini is given credit for the discovery of the Great Red Spot on Jupiter (ca. 1665). Cassini was the first to observe four of Saturn's moons, which he called Sidera Lodoicea; he also discovered the Cassini Division (1675) [the name for the gap in the rings of Saturn]. Around 1690, Cassini was the first to observe differential rotation within Jupiter's atmosphere.

In 1672 [one year after founding the Paris Observatory for the king] he sent his colleague Jean Richer to [South America] Cayenne, French Guiana, while he himself stayed in Paris. The two made simultaneous observations of Mars from different widely spaced points on the Earth where the distance was relatively known and thus found its parallax [the slight degree difference of their observations seen from Earth of the same object] to determine its distance, thus measuring for the first time [via further interplanetary triangulation and trigonometry] the true dimensions of the solar system.

Cassini was the first to make successful measurements of longitude by the method suggested by Galileo, using eclipses of the satellites of Jupiter as a clock.

Attracted to the heavens in his youth, his first interest was in astrology rather than astronomy. Later in his life he focused almost exclusively on astronomy alone and all but [publicly] denounced astrology as he became more and more involved in the scientific revolution and ultra-rational thought of the day [which was not, dear Wiki, all that hyped up and rational actually; let’s recall 'rational Newton' considered his best work information about finding the dimensions of the Temple of Solomon--and he spent vastly more printed lines on alchemy poetry than gravitation].

While young Cassini read widely on the subject of astrology, and soon he was very knowledgeable about it; strangely enough [not really], it was his extensive knowledge of astrology that led to his first appointment as an astronomer.

Bolognese Malvasias Sponsor Astrologer Cassini

In 1644 the Marquis Cornelio Malvasia, who was a senator of Bologna [in northern Italy] with a great interest in astrology, invited Cassini to Bologna and offered him a position in the Panzano Observatory which he was constructing at that time.

[Malvasia seems to be in the same circles as the VERY occult Medicis right next door in Florence]: "After the failure of Marie de Medicis to purchase [a certain] picture, it was still on the market when Cornelio Malvasia wrote to the duke of Modena, as whose agent...", etc.]. Interesting.

As said above, "Malvasia" is the name of a wine grape, which may be symbolic of an occult lineage in hyper-occult European (non-orthodox) Christian lines:

There's very little on Cornelio Malvasia, through from what there is, the whole Malvasia family was the political elite of Bologna. This one, Cornelio Malvasia, who extended the invitation to the ‘first Cassini’ aiming to hire the 'astrologer/astromer' Cassini, was both a Bolognese politician and Bolognese military general--and of course an astrologer as well:

Cornelio Malvasia (* 1603; † 1664) was an Italian general, politician and an astronomer. A rough German translation of some text I found:

"Malvasia was a multi-talent. He ascended during his military career to the generalship in Papal services; then he became a fürstlicher advisor and commander of the guard of Alfonso IV of Modena. In 1622 Cornelio Malvasia invented the gun cross-hairs, and during his participation in...war he still found time to translate the astrological writings of [Medici hired] Luca Gaurico (1476-1558) into Latin.

Luca Gaurico (in Latin, Lucas Gauricus) (March 12, 1476 - 1558) was an Italian astrologer, astronomer, and mathematician. He was born to a poor family in the Kingdom of Naples, and studied “judicial astrology,” a subject he defended in his Oratio de Inventoribus et Astrologiae Laudibus (1508). Judicial astrology concerned the fate of man (astrologia judiciaria; mundane astrology) as influenced by the stars. His most famous work is the Tractatus Astrologicus. Luca Gaurico's reputation was such that he served as an "astrological consultant" to Catherine de Medici [the banker Medicis of totalitarian dictatorial 'enlightened despotism' Florence and later dominating the papacy, and dominating through the female line [Catherine de Medici] that married into the kings of France, that country as well].

Cornelio Malvasia invited in 1644 the astronomer Giovanni Domenico Cassini to Bologna as a director of the Panzaro Oberservatoriums.

Another Malvasia had close French royal connections already:

Carlo Cesare Malvasia (1616-1693) [who would seem to be Cornelo Malvasia's brother] was an Italian scholar from Bologna, best known for his biographies of Baroque artists titled Felsina pittrice, vite de’ pittori bolognesi, published in 1678 [1]. Malvasia is the Bolognese equivalent of Giorgio Vasari, ***and saw his native city surpassing [the Medicis] Florence in the artistic supremacy of his time.*** Born to [the same] aristocratic family, he is also known as Count Carlo Malvasia. He received cursory training in painting under Giacinto Campana and Giacomo Cavedone. [The latter painter is described in the 1911 Britannica (incorrectly called Jacopo Cavendone) where it claims his wife accused her painter husband of witchcraft. He lived until 1660, and died in poverty. So one Bolognese aristocratic Malvasia is associating with presumed 'witchcraft' interested painters. Another Malvasia from the same family is translating the Medici's astrologers' writings into Latin.]

Carlo Cesare Malvasia also was an amateur poet and participated in local literary circles. He traveled to Rome in 1639 where he met Cardinal Bernardino Spada and the sculptor Alessandro Algardi. He graduated as a lawyer, and lectured [as his aristocratic family gave him a position] on the subject at the university in [his home town of] Bologna.

This university is the oldest in Europe, and known for its 'secularism' (and its opposition to papal jurisdiction and ideologies): The University of Bologna (Italian: Alma Mater Studiorum Università di Bologna, UNIBO) is the oldest continually operating degree-granting university in the world, and the second largest university in Italy. It is located in the city of Bologna. The University of Bologna was the first university founded in the western world (AD 1088) and since 2000, its motto has been Alma mater studiorum (Latin for "fostering mother of studies"; cf. Alma mater). The university received a charter from Frederick I Barbarossa in 1158 [during his fights with the pope over Northern Italy and Southern Italy], but in the 19th century, a committee of historians led by Giosuè Carducci traced the birth of the University back to 1088. The University celebrated its 900th anniversary in 1988, making it arguably the longest-lived occidental university. The University of Bologna is historically notable for its teaching of canon and civil law.

In 1158, at the urging of four doctors (thought to be pupils at the University), Frederick I promulgated the Constitutio Habita, in which the University was legally declared a place where research could develop independently from any other power.

In the 14th century, so-called "artists" - scholars of medicine, philosophy, arithmetic, astronomy [astrology], logic, rhetoric, and grammar - began to collaborate with the school of jurists. In 1364, the teaching of theology was instituted. **Dante Alighieri, Francesco **Petrarca, Guido Guinizelli, Cino da Pistoia, Cecco d'Ascoli, Re Enzo, Salimbene da Parma and Coluccio Salutati all studied in Bologna. In the 15th century Greek and Hebrew studies were instituted [i.e., learning from earlier Christian texts that the current Papal versions of the Bible were somewhat different…], and **in the 16th century those of "natural magic", which we would refer to as, "experimental sciences." The philosopher Pietro Pomponazzi upheld the study of the laws of nature against the traditionalist position of theology and philosophy. A representative figure of this period was Ulisse Aldrovandi, whose contributions ranged from pharmacopoeia to the study of animals, fossils, and marvels of nature which he collected and classified. In the 16th century Gaspare Tagliacozzi completed the first studies of plastic surgery. In the 17th century, which is thought of as the "golden era" of the University, medicine coincided with the teachings of Marcello Malpighi and students began to employ the microscope for anatomical research [as they were employing the telescope for astrology]. By this time, the University's fame had spread throughout Europe and it was a destination for many illustrious guests. Famous scholars and students included [occult Christian cabbalist] Pico della Mirandola and Leon Battista Alberti, who devoted themselves to canon law; and Nicolaus Copernicus who began his astronomical observations while studying pontifical law [at Bologna]. [Leon Battista Alberti (February 14, 1404 – April 25, 1472) was an Italian author, poet, linguist, architect, philosopher, cryptographer, and general Renaissance humanist polymath. In Italy, his first name is usually spelled "Leon". Alberti's life was described in Giorgio Vasari's Vite....An Italian humanist, Alberti is often seen as a model of the Renaissance "universal man." He was born in Genoa, one of two illegitimate sons of a wealthy Florentine merchant, Lorenzo Alberti. Leon's mother, Bianca Fieschi, was a Bolognese widow who died during an outbreak of bubonic plague. Like many other families, the Albertis had been expelled from their native city, Florence, by the republican government, run by the Albizzis. At the time of Leon's birth, his father Lorenzo lived in Genoa, but the family soon moved to Venice, where Lorenzo ran the family bank with his brother. Lorenzo married again in 1408. The ban on the family was lifted in 1428, and that same year Leon visited Florence for the first time. Alberti received the finest education then available to an Italian nobleman. Alberti, as a member of noble family and as part of the Roman curia, had special status. He was a welcomed guest at the Este court in Ferrara, [another interesting occult linked family] and in Urbino he spent part of the hot-weather season with the soldier-prince Federigo da Montefeltro. The Duke of Urbino was a shrewd military commander, who generously spent money on the patronage of art. Alberti planned to dedicate his treatise on architecture to his friend. For the Rucellai family in Florence Alberti designed several buildings, the façade of Palazzo Rucellai, executed by Bernardo Rosselino, the façade of Santa Maria Novella, the marble-clad shrine of the Holy Sepulchre, and perhaps also the Capella Rucellai.]

Paracelso, Raymond of Peñafort, Albrecht Dürer, St. Carlo Borromeo, Torquato Tasso, and Carlo Goldoni all spent time at the University of Bologna as well. With the advent of the Industrial Revolution in the 18th century, the University promoted scientific and technological development. In this period came the studies of Luigi Galvani who was one of the founders of modern electrotechnical studies (along with Alessandro Volta, Benjamin Franklin and Henry Cavendish). Following the establishment of the United Italian State came a period of great prosperity for the University in which the figures of Giovanni Capellini, Giosuè Carducci, Giovanni Pascoli, Augusto Righi, Federigo Enriques, Giacomo Ciamician, and Augusto Murri stand out. In 1888 the eighth centennial of the University was celebrated with a grand ceremony. Representatives from universities all over the world convened in Bologna to honour the "mother of universities," and celebrate their common roots and ideals of progress and tolerance.

The University maintained its central position on the scene of global culture until the period between World War I and World War II.

Future sponsor of Cassini, Malvasia, obtained a theology degree from Bologna in 1653 as well. He was [within a decade] appointed a canon in Bologna Cathedral in 1662. So he was 'Christian canon' of Bologna Cathedral when presumably his brother Malvasia invited a famous astrologer to Bologna.

His Felsina pittrice is a principal sources of information about the wave of Emilian painters that rose to Italian pre-eminence during the Baroque. Over the years, the book has been criticized for inaccuracies and, that for example, unlike the contemporary Gian Pietro Bellori, his writings are mere compilation of facts embellished by courtly flourishes, but lacking critical assessment or core ideology (other than a provincial attachment to his native city) . [In other words, we might call his work just 'city boosterism.'] He collects biographies of Francesco Francia, the Ludovico and Annibale Carracci, Guido Reni (his favorite painter), Domenichino, Bartolomeo Schedoni, Elisabetta Sirani, Francesco Albani and Guercino. He also published a guide to Bolognese antiquities called Marmorea Felsina (1690). [Despite his seeming lack of depth,] He was a collector and also an agent for Louis XIV’s interests in the Bolognese artworks. [Carlo Cesare Malvasia: The Life of Guido Reni, Review author: Claire Pace; The Burlington Magazine (1982); p 306-308.]

Just like a lot of attempts to find an anachronistic difference between 'secular scientific and/or Christian religious Europe', once you scratch the surface, the whole assumption that current secularism came from secular thought sort of collapses in a huge amalgam. Same as the difficulty of separating occult religious views and personal motivations of hermetic alchemy in ‘chemistry.’

Below is a description of the Florence Medici astrologer that the Bolognese Malvasias were so keen on translating, and seemingly hiring the next best astrologer/astronomer in the next generation: Cassini. Luca Gaurico seemed to have 'second sight'--in accurate prophesy--and was the astrologer to the Medici banker dynasty "Christian pope" as well as being an astrologer appointed to the position of Christian bishop by the same Medici pope.]:

Gaurico had predicted the accession to the papacy of Catherine's great-uncle Giovanni de Medici (when he was 14 –who later became Leo X) and predicted Catherine’s uncle Giulio de Medici involvement in important political struggles and numerous descendants. (Giulio de Medici later was to become [yet another pope] Pope Clement VII, who involved with disputes with both Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor and Henry VIII of England, and is [a pope] said to have produced 29 bastards.)

Two for two so far, Giovanni II Bentivoglio, ruler of Bologna, also consulted him about his destiny. Unpleased with Gaurico’s prophecy, Bentivoglio subjected Gaurico to the torture of mancuerda, the effects of which he suffered for the rest of his life, and exiled the astrologer.

When Bologna fell to [the armies of] Pope Julius II, Gaurico returned to general favor [via support from the papal party.][1]

Gaurico became famous after predicting the ascension of [another banker pope family] Alessandro Farnese, a prediction that came true with Farnese's ascension as Paul III. [The Farnese family was an influential family in Renaissance Italy. The family could trace its origins back to around AD 984. Important members include Pope Paul III and the Dukes of Parma. Ranuccio Farnese (c. 1390 - July 2, 1450) was an Italian nobleman, lord, and condottiero. Born in Bolsena, he is considered the founder of the fortunes of the Farnese family. In 1416 Ranuccio succeeded his father as commander-in-chief of the Republic of Siena's troops, and defeated the [papal dynasty of the] Orsinis of Pitigliano. In 1419 Pope Martin V [who was equally arch enemy of the Orsinis, was a Collona: [son of Agapito Colonna and Caterina Conti, he belonged to one of the oldest and most distinguished families of Rome. He became apostolic protonotary under Pope Urban VI (1378–89), was created Cardinal Deacon by Pope Innocent VII (1404–06), and in 1410 was the delegate of antipope Alexander V (1409–10) to hear the appeal which had been taken in that year to the Papacy by Jan Hus. He was elected pope on St. Martin's Day (November 11) at the Council of Constance]. So this Collona pope appointed someone who had battled the Orsinis like his family always had, making him an allied Senator of Rome after he fought off the Orsinis. Three years later he received the fiefs of Tessennano and Piansano in the Papal States. Also serving as Papal commander under Eugene IV [that pope born in Venice to a rich merchant family, a Correr on his mother's side], Ranuccio obtained new lands in rewards of the credits accumulated towards the Apostolic Chamber.]

That's the context Luca Gaurico the astrologer/prophesier moved within. Gaurico foretold also the sickness and death of this Pontiff, who died on November 20, 1549, the day said to have been indicated by Gaurico. [Farnese pope] Paul III obviously did not wait for his death in order to verify Gaurico's prediction. Paul III, who encouraged astrologers to come to Rome and work under his protection, made Gaurico his unofficial astrologer, and was made a Papal Table Companion, knighted, and appointed bishop of Giffoni (Salerno province), and thus described as Episcopus Geophonensis, in 1539. Paul III [next] made Gaurico bishop of Civitate (San Severo), in Capitanata, in southern Italy, in 1545.

Four years after the death of Paul III, [astrologer] Gaurico abandoned these [bishop] duties and settled in Rome.

Before he had been appointed bishop, he had written his Tractatus Astrologicus (1540), which contained the natal charts of popes and cardinals, kings and nobles, scholars, musicians and artists. Gaurico systematically examined each natal chart, compared it to the life of the person in question, and in the case of living subjects, predicted the outcome of their lives and careers. Gaurico also attempted to calculate the exact date of Jesus' crucifixion, and the number of hours between it and the resurrection. Both he and Nostradamus were responsible for predicting the death of Henry II of France in a tournament in 1559.

[Another competing ‘updated’ Tractatus Astrologicus was written in the next generation by an associate of Tycho Brahe, someone that astronomers attempt to claim was “different” from the astrological wing. Guess what: it was all the astrological wing. Kepler likely even murdered Tycho Brahe for his star charts, because of his Christian/occult interests wanted verification with their accuracy—as well as Kepler’s more mundane contribution of noting that planets moved in perfect ellipses instead of circles. Like Kepler, near Brahe was Heinrich Rantzau or Ranzow (Ranzovius) (1526-1598), a German humanist writer and statesman, who was a prolific astrologer and an associate of Tycho Brahe. He was son of Johan Rantzau. He was the astrologically interested Governor of Holstein, a rich man and celebrated book collector, and a patron of scholars. His updated Tractatus astrologicus de genethliacorum thematum appeared in 1597 (50 years after Luca Guarico’s), and went through five editions by 1615.]

So after the good press received from the ex-Papal appointed bishop/astrologer Gaurico’s Tractatus Astrologicus, Catherine de Medici had wished to know her Henry's destiny as the Apparent Heir of France. Gaurico replied that the Heir would exert his royal power, which would first marked by a duel, and finally by another duel that would put a stop to his reign and his life. He also explained in detail the kind of wound that would result in the death of Henry II during this duel.

But the danger of this duel was impossible because of the social condition of the Prince, and Gaurico was not believed. But Gaurico insisted on his statements, printed in France in 1552, that is, seven years before the well-known duel in which Henry II would find his death. He is also said to have sent a letter to the King repeating with full details his prediction and advising him to avoid any single combat in closed field, especially around the time when he had reached 41 years of age, since a wound on his head, at this age, could produce his blindness or his death. The letter did not deter Henry.

On July 1, 1559, during a match to celebrate the Peace Treaty of Cateau-Cambrésis with his longtime enemies, the Habsburgs of Austria and to celebrate the marriage of his daughter Elizabeth of Valois to King Philip II of Spain, during the final joust, King Henry's eye was pierced by a sliver that penetrated the brain, from the shattered lance of Gabriel Montgomery, captain of the King's Scottish Guard. He suffered terribly, and, despite the efforts of royal surgeon Ambroise Paré, died on July 10, 1559 and was buried in a cadaver tomb in Saint Denis Basilica.

In regard to the birth of Martin Luther, Gaurico found a connection between this date (November 10, 1483, according to the reckoning of the Gregorian Calendar) and a "grand conjunction," that is, a meeting of the planets Jupiter and Saturn. Grand conjunctions were meant to predict extensive changes in the secular and religious power structures. Because the “grand conjunction” of 1484 took place in the sign of Scorpio, an astrological sign that stood for radical, revolutionary events as well as for epidemics and widespread death, this indicated to Gaurico that dramatic changes would occur in all social spheres –such as would result from the Reformation.[2]

Astrology and Buildings

Gaurico was widely renowned as an astrologer, and his Tractatus Astrologicus (1552) [others say something like this was published in 1540] also contained charts of the foundation of various buildings and cities. [Farnese] Pope Paul III thus used Gaurico to determine the most auspicious time at which the cornerstone of a new building in the neighborhood of St Peter's Basilica should be laid. [Ha. Bet very few knew that St. Peter’s was astrologically constructed.]

It is said that Gaurico arrived at the scene in great pomp. An assistant, the astrologer Vincentius Campanatius of Bologna, was commanded to inspect the sky with an astrolabe and cry out in a loud voice the best time when the moment to lay the first marble slab arrived.[3]


Gaurico ran a school of astrology at Ferrara. One of his [astrology] pupils was Julius Caesar Scaliger. [When Scaliger was twelve, his kinsman the emperor Maximilian placed him among his pages. He remained for seventeen years in the service of the emperor, distinguishing himself as a soldier and as a captain. But he was unmindful neither of letters, in which he had the most eminent scholars of the day as his instructors, nor of art, which he studied with considerable success under Albrecht Dürer. In 1512 at the Battle of Ravenna, where his father and elder brother were killed, he displayed prodigies of valour, and received the highest honours of chivalry from his imperial cousin, who conferred upon him with his own hands the Order of the Golden Spur, augmented with the collar and the eagle of gold. But this was the only reward he obtained. He left the service of Maximilian, and after a brief employment by another kinsman, the duke of Ferrara, he decided to quit the military life, and in 1514 entered as a student at the University of Bologna. He determined to take holy orders, in the expectation that he would become cardinal, and then pope, when he would wrest from the Venetians his duchy of Verona, of which the republic had despoiled his ancestors. But, though he soon gave up this design, he remained at the university until 1519. The next six years he passed at the castle of Vico Nuovo, in Piedmont, as a guest of the Della Rovere,...Della Rovere is a noble historical family of Italy. Coming from modest beginnings in Savona, Liguria, the family rose to prominence through nepotism and ambitious marriages arranged by two Della Rovere popes, Francesco della Rovere, who ruled as Pope Sixtus IV (1471-1484) and his nephew Giuliano (Pope Julius II, 1503-1513). Pope Sixtus IV is known for having built the Sistine Chapel, which is named for him. The most successful match established a line of della Rovere dukes of Urbino [who sponsored the Holy Sepuchure monument there]. That dynasty ended in 1626 when Pope Urban VIII incorporated Urbino into the papal dominions, the gift of the weary last della Rovere duke, Francesco Maria II, in retirement after the assassination of his heir, Francesco Ubaldo. When the Fascists took over Italy, the [fascists went out of their way to destroy them and the] Della Rovere family villa was stormed and many Della Roveres were killed. A Della Rovere family member, the third oldest son, escaped to New York after hiding in a well for four days.]

Back to Guarico. As a scholar, Gaurico edited George of Trebizon's translation of Ptolemy's Almagest, a work Gaurico dedicated to Pope Nicholas V, who had commissioned the work. Gaurico theorized that Ptolemy was a native of Pelusium.[4] The lunar crater Gauricus is named after him.


Amidst Christianity, banker dynasties warring on each other for the papal throne, astrologer-bishops, and witchcraft-studying painters, the Malvasias of Bologna hired the Cassinis:

Most of their time was spent calculating newer, better, and more accurate ephemerides for astrological purposes using the rapidly advancing astronomical methods and tools of the day.

In 1669 Cassini moved to France and through a grant from Louis XIV of France [who had the Bologna connection through the other Malversia at the French court as well] and helped to set up the Paris Observatory which opened in 1671; Cassini would remain the director of the observatory for the rest of his career until his death in 1712. [This is the context in which the 'rose line' was created. The Paris Meridian is a meridian line running through Paris, now longitude 2°20′14.025″ east. It was a long-standing rival to Greenwich as the prime meridian of the world, as was the Antwerp meridian in Flanders. A French astronomer, Abbé Jean Picard, measured the length of a degree of longitude and computed from it the size of the Earth during 1669-1670. In 1666, Louis XIV of France authorized the building of an observatory in Paris to measure longitude. On Midsummer's Day 1667, members of the Academy of Sciences traced the future building's outline on a plot outside town near the Port Royal abbey, with Picard's meridian exactly bisecting the site north-south. French cartographers would use it as their prime meridian for more than 200 years. There is a Meridian Room (otherwise known as the Cassini Room) at the Paris Observatory. The Paris Meridian is traced on the floor through the room.

Two years after arriving, in 1673 Cassini became a French citizen. While in France Cassini also served as the court astronomer/astrologer of Louis XIV ("The [astrological] Sun King") for forty-one years, serving the expected dual role yet focusing the overwhelming majority of his time on astronomy rather than the astrology he had studied so much of in his youth. [or so current official stories read--the so called 'differentiation' was meaningless then.]

During this time, Cassini's method of determining longitude was used to measure accurately the size of France for the first time. The country turned out to be considerably smaller than expected, and the king quipped that Cassini had taken more of his kingdom from him than he had won in all his wars.


Cassini was employed by Pope Clement IX in regard to fortifications, river management, and flooding of the Po. [That pope, born Giulio Rospigliosi to a noble family of Pistoia, Grand Duchy of Tuscany, he was a pupil of the Jesuits. After receiving his doctorate in philosophy at the University of Pisa, he taught theology there. Later Rospigliosi worked closely with Pope Urban VIII (1623–1644), a Barberini Pope, where he worked in the Papal diplomacy as nuncio to Spain, among other posts. He was also made vicar of Santa Maria Maggiore in Rome. Rospigliosi was an accomplished man of letters, who wrote poetry, dramas and libretti, as well as what may be the first comic opera.] That Pope asked Cassini to take Holy Orders to work with him permanently but Cassini turned him down 'because he wanted to work on astronomy', full time.

In the 1670s, Cassini begun work on a project to create a topographic map of France, using Reiner Gemma Frisius's technique of triangulation. The project was continued by his son Jacques Cassini and eventually finished by his grandson Cassini de Thury and published as the Carte de Cassini in 1789[1] or 1793[2]. It was the first topographic map of an entire country.

As for Cassini progeny, his son was eerily born 'at' the observatory. This went on for three more generations. "Cassini was born at the Paris Observatory. Admitted at the age of seventeen to membership of the French Academy of Sciences, he was elected in 1696 a fellow of the Royal Society of London, and became maître des comptes in 1706. Having succeeded to his father's position at the observatory in 1712, he measured in 1713 the arc of the meridian from Dunkirk to Perpignan, and published the results in a volume entitled Traité de la grandeur et de la figure de la terre (1720). He also wrote Eléments d'astronomie (1740), and died at Thury, near Clermont. [Additionally interested in Iapetus and Saturn,] he published the first tables of the satellites of Saturn in 1716.

The next son of that son was born in the observatory as well.

César-François Cassini de Thury (June 17, 1714 – September 4, 1784) was a French astronomer, son of Jacques Cassini, and grandson of Giovanni Domenico Cassini. Cassini de Thury was born at the Paris Observatory. He succeeded to his father’s official employments in 1756, continued the hereditary surveying operations, and began in 1744 the construction of a great topographical map of France. The post of director of the Paris observatory was created for his benefit in 1771, when the establishment ceased to be a dependency of the French Academy of Sciences.

And the next son of the son of the son was born in the observatory as well.

Jacques Dominique, comte de Cassini (June 30, 1748 – October 18, 1845) was a French astronomer, son of César-François Cassini de Thury. Count Cassini was born at the Paris Observatory. In 1784 he succeeded his father [as his grandfather did and as his great grandfather] as director of the observatory; but his plans for its restoration and re-equipment were wrecked in 1793 by the animosity of the National Assembly. His position having become intolerable, he resigned on September 6, and was thrown into prison in 1794, but released after seven months. He then withdrew to Thury, where he died 51 years later. He published in 1770 an account of a voyage to America in 1768, undertaken as the commissary of the French Academy of Sciences with a view to testing Pierre Leroy’s watches at sea. A memoir in which he described the operations superintended by him in 1787 for connecting the observatories of Paris and Greenwich by longitude-determinations appeared in 1791. He visited England for the purposes of the work, and saw William Herschel at Slough.

[Hershel believed lots of planets were inhabited in the solar system, and believed in a hollow earth. William and Mary had one child, John, born [like the Cassini children] at Observatory House on 7 March 1792. In 1816, William was made a Knight of the Royal Guelphic Order by the Prince Regent entitling him to the prefix 'Sir'. He helped to found the Astronomical Society of London in 1820, which in 1831 received a royal charter and became the Royal Astronomical Society. On 25 August 1822, Herschel died at Observatory House, Slough, and is buried at nearby St Laurence's Church, Upton. His son John Herschel also became a famous astronomer. One of William's brothers, Alexander, moved permanently to England, near Caroline and William. His house in Bath, where he made many telescopes and first observed Uranus, is now home to the William Herschel Museum.]

"Cassini IV" completed his father’s map of France, which was published by the Academy of Sciences in 1793. It served as the basis for the Atlas National (1791), showing France in departments. Count Cassini’s Mémoires pour servir à l’histoire de l’observatoire de Paris (1810) embodied portions of an extensive work, the prospectus of which he had submitted to the Academy of Sciences in 1774. The volume included his Eloges of several academicians, and the autobiography of his great-grandfather, Giovanni Cassini.

Named after Cassini

* Cassini-Huygens Mission to Saturn
* Saturn’s ‘moon’ Iapetus discovered and named by Cassini
* The Cassini Division in Saturn's rings
* He named Cassini Regio, the dark area on Iapetus
* Cassini crater on Mars [named for him instead of by him]
* Cassini crater on the Moon [Mare Imbrium, Latin for "Sea of Showers" or "Sea of Rains", is a vast lunar mare (mahr'-ay) filling a basin on Earth's Moon. Mare Imbrium was [so they say] created when lava [what lava?] flooded the giant crater formed when a very large object hit the moon long ago. The moon's maria (mahr'-ee-ah) (plural of mare) have fewer features than other areas of the moon because [so they say] molten lava pooled in the craters and formed a relatively smooth [repaired?] surface. To the contrary, the moon is 60% less dense gravitationally that it should be by expectations of solid size, and rings like a bell when struck.]
* Cassini's Laws (1693) deal with the motion of the Moon. The first law states that the Moon has 1:1 orbital resonance. This means that the rotation / orbit of the Moon is such that the same face is always facing the Earth. The second law states that the Moon's rotational axis maintains the same angle of inclination from the ecliptic plane. In which case the Moon's axis forms a cone and this cone intersects the ecliptic plane as a circle. The third law states that a plane formed from a normal to the ecliptic plane and a normal to the Moon's orbital plane will contain the Moon's rotational axis.]
* 24101 Cassini, an asteroid
* Cassini's identity for Fibonacci numbers
* Cassini Web Server

Mormon Moonmen

Another 'prophet' who believed in an inhabited moon like Hershel seems to be the founder of Mormonism, Joseph Smith, which this Mormon page quotes attempting to discredit the quote and information :

7/01/2007 12:38:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

While intended for students of psychology and for practitioners of the black art of marketing (selling over-priced unnecessary "stuff" to the unwitting), I regard this text as a very helpful reference for the new warriors, the practitoners of Information Operations and within that larger discipline, Strategic Communication & Public Diplomacy.

The six "principles" of influence, reciprocation, consistency, social proof (e.g. canned laughter), liking, authority, and scarcity, each receive their own chapter with annedotes and study questions.

Most interesting to me would be an international variation of this book, one that discussed the nuances of influence in other cultures, inclusive of family ties and prevalent sterotypes.

This book is applicable to business, evangelism, foreign affairs, defense, homeland security, and just about any field where interaction with humans is called for, and the mission demands the elicitation of collaborative behavior from others.

7/01/2007 08:36:00 PM  
Blogger ericswan said...

Whitley Streiber might be interested in the chunk of petrified wood that seemed to levitate on my night table. Food for thought...

The Drones: Are They Real, and What Do We Do?
Friday June 29th, 2007

There isn't any serious doubt at this point that people are observing strange objects in the sky, most often near certain air force bases. There is also a plethora of computer graphics animations appearing on various video websites. So far, all of this video consists of animations and is not real.
However, the witness reports, such as the one featured on this week's Dreamland, are almost certainly real, and some of the photographs are real, too, quite possibly all of the ones that we and Linda Moulton Howe have posted.

This could be human technology, pure and simple. Perhaps a much more potent expression of electrohydrodynamic propulsion has been deployed and is being tested. There is a very high demand within the intelligence community for low-level, close in monitoring systems that are undetectable, so certainly such technologies are being worked on with high priority.

And then there is the matter of the "Isaac X" posting, which has been so violently attacked by UFO researchers.

Maybe it is a hoax and maybe not, but there is one element of it that isn't a hoax, and this element is of extraordinary value, as you will see.

For this reason, the hoax issue isn't all that important when it comes to this material. Even if Isaac created it entirely out of his imagination, this material is still real, and it is pure gold.

He says on the website he has created for this material: "They had something akin to a language, that could quite literally execute itself, at least in the presence of a very specific type of field. The language, a term I am still using very loosely, is a system of symbols (which does admittedly very much resemble a written language) along with geometric forms and patterns that fit together to form diagrams that are themselves functional. Once they are drawn, so to speak, on a suitable surface made of a suitable material and in the presence of a certain type of field, they immediately begin performing the desired tasks."

This is correct, and not only that, one of the materials on which these imprints will work is the human brain, and one of the fields that will activate the forms is the electromagnetic field of a living brain.

Now, it is VERY important to realize something before I go on, and to take it into your mind and heart: EVEN IF the entire Isaac production is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to be a hoax, and that may happen, the statement above is STILL true.

How would a true statement come into a hoax? Quite simply, because the hoaxer is probably a close encounter witness himself, probably in amnesia about his encounters and very disturbed by them, and has dropped information from those encounters into his hoax without even knowing it.

Understand, my gut feeling is that the Isaac material is real. The main objections to it are not convincing, and I will detail why not later in this journal, for those who are interested.

But, even if a hoax is proven, please don't throw out the baby with the bathwater, because we all have a chance now to make a major advance, and, for those of us who work hard and effectively, to transform ourselves in fundamental ways.

Always remember this: the visitors have said what is on offer to us. Phillip Corso was told, in no uncertain terms, "a new world, if you can take it." This means that we must wrest it out of the hands of the grays, and also be able to bear it. And I warn you, the more parts of yourself you don't like, the harder the light that it brings will be to endure, because that light drives consciousness deep into the parts of ourselves of which we dare not even speak.

I warn you, but I also seek to tempt you ahead. We can remake our world. The equipment has already been installed. All we need now to do is turn it on.

Let me offer two instances of how the patterning described above works in a human brain. The first of these involves a man called Jose Garcia. I don't believe that this case is referenced on the internet. This is not the Jose Garcia associated with the Ashtar Command material, but a simple farmer in Mexico who had an unusual experience.

A tall man walked up to him in his field one day and showed him a set of symbols, and told him to memorize them, then visualize them while planting his crops. He did this, and after that the crops began growing to record size. The case briefly appeared in Texas papers, and was privately investigated by a Texas sheriff. I assume that it is documented somewhere, but I cannot find it. I'm grateful to one of the people who have worked on this case with me for bringing it up.

A second data point involves long-time close encounter witness Jim Sparks. He recounts an instance of being made to trace a letter "E" when in the presence of a gray, and experiencing unusual physical sensations as he did so. He was told that he was being taught a skill.

What is happening now is that this skill is being offered on a gigantic scale, and it is possible for us to take advantage of it.

First, we have been shown, in the drones, some of the equipment that can be constructed using it. What they do, we do not yet know, but I have a thought that some of them, at least, are used in making crop circles.

Understand, I cannot prove any of this, and it is not my intention to do that. It is my intention to continue on the road I've been on most of my life, that stretches into the unknown and arises out of my soul's old long time.

We are all on this road, and to demand the wrong sort of explanations--concrete proof, for example, that none of this is a hoax--is to stand fast instead of continuing the journey. No risk, no gain.

That said, I think that the two fragile indications I have described above, plus Isaac's message, suggest that there may already be a set of patterns, in the form of the crop circles, that we can apply to the material of our brains by memorizing the images and calling them to mind when we need them.

Understand, I have no idea how this will work or even if it will work. But I sense that it will, and that we need to do it, and that by doing so we will create a technology within ourselves that will reconnect us with powerful energies that are intrinsic to the earth, and enable us to reunite with our planet in a journey of healing that might just save this species.

The program is simple enough. It involves going back to images of the early crop circles, and methodically memorizing them and bringing them to mind during mediation and in our everyday lives, and seeing what, if anything, happens.

Obviously, some of the circles we do this with will be authentic and others fake. It isn't important. The fake ones simply won't work and will end up being forgotten.

I believe that the circles are placed near ancient sites of power because these are the fountainheads of whatever energy it is that we seek to reconnect with. Ancient man probably couldn't do as much with these energies as we will be able to, but he knew they were there, and that's why he clustered his places of worship around them.

Most of you might go to a crop circle website or open a book and try this once or twice. Nothing will happen and you'll forget about it. Or you'll wait passively for it to "do" something to you and it won't, and you'll move on.

I know you will do this because I am liable to do it, too. When I first started meditating nearly forty years ago, it felt useless. Now, however, it is the foundation of a gigantic second life that penetrates into all sorts of realms. Had I not been meditating, the visitors would never even have found me.

So, I urge you to stay with this new practice. In our subscriber section, I am going to begin a series of sample meditations on the circles, and go on with it as best I am able.

In our consciousness, fact and imagination are two different things. We say, "it was just imagination" to dismiss something.

The visitors have a different view of this. They say that imagination creates fact, and it is out of this more correct understanding of reality that their evolution of power forms has arisen.

Because we have not recognized the degree to which the mind actually mediates reality, we are making two mistakes, and one of the reasons that I think that the Isaac material is real is that it very subtly reflects one of these mistakes, which is that the universe is founded on a group of facts that we must discover in order to understand how it works.

In reality, the universe that we live in is founded on the human mind, and our imagination governs the laws of existence as we experience them.

The mistake that was made by the Isaac scientists was to assume that, if only they understood the principles behind the equipment they possessed, they could use it. This isn't completely impossible, but a much more elegant solution is to work backward from what we see the equipment doing, and use our imaginations to determine how something might do that. This way, we adapt our vision of the universe to our understanding of it, rather than slowly and painfully entering somebody else's vision and contorting our own imagination to fit it.

I know that this sounds esoteric, but it actually isn't. In fact, if you want to explore it more deeply, you can turn to the cover story on this week's New Scientist (June 30-July 6, 2007) and read the article "How the Universe Got Its Laws and Our Surprising Role in Shaping Them."

I digress in this way to offer some rationale for why using the crop circles in the manner I describe above will work. How it will work, of what our minds will do to enable it to work I don't know. But, for some of us, it will bring changes that will be in the direction of greater power over ourselves and our world.

7/02/2007 02:08:00 AM  
Blogger Sounder said...


7/02/2007 07:34:00 AM  
Blogger ericswan said...

Mark.. I really think you should be punished for your Iapetus piece excepting for the fact that it finally did stir something in my feeble brain that made it worth the read. Just a couple of points here. Nostradamus in his letter to Henry 11 makes a reference to latitude of Paris as being as significant as longditude at Grenwich. And he did predict the accidental death of the king as well.

Are you aware that the cornerstone for the "Temple" has already been laid? Of course, that's all that has been done but the consequences, I'm sure, will follow in their due time. asked me once upon a time, if reincarnation could take place in an eleven year + period. My authority on this subject is Lobsang Tuesday Rampa who actually reincarnated into a living person.

7/02/2007 10:28:00 AM  
Blogger Mark said...

Eric said:

"...makes a reference to latitude of Paris as being as significant as longitude at Greenwich. And he did predict the accidental death of the king as well."

Yes, I read that somewhere. Maybe they both were in on killing him. :-) Or both were prescient.

Yes, as for the longitude issues might have something to do with their similar connections to Jerusalem and a potential Ark storage place. See the argument in Templar Gold.

I reviewed the interesting bit in my archaeoastronomy book links here:

_Templar Gold (half recommended; maps hiding treasures; Masonic rituals geometric frameworks; slippery slope arguments abound; data feels like diamonds in the rough: 33 point circle around Pech Cardou, Paris Meridian to bisect; Payrolles snake; 33 degrees to Kalossi from Greenwich; 33 degrees from Paris Meridian to Jerusalem--hardly accidental; well with: Shadow of the Sentinel: One Man's Quest to Find the Hidden Treasure of the Confederacy; Key to the Sacred Pattern (S. of Pech Cardou); The Knights Templar in the New World: How Henry Sinclair Brought the Grail to Acadia; The Templars' Secret Island

The author of Templar Gold makes a case that the Ark had a temporary resting place in Kalossi in a perfectly executed hidden floor vault that would fit its known dimensions.

In other words, he argues that esoterically Greenwich was chosen to maintain the 33 degree connection off the main focus of the 'Christian Orient' to keep the assocaition with Jerusalem/Ark (33 degrees to Paris) location, just moved a bit west to Greenwich (fitted to keeping the esoteric requirements of 33 degrees to Kalossi/Ark).

Cute, eh?

Kalossi Castle is in Crete--Crete seized in the 1200s difficulties of keeping Crusader lands in the Levant. Crusaders were completely pushed out of Acre by 1291.

"The Kolossi Castle is a stronghold a few kilometers outside the city of Limassol on the island of Cyprus. It held a great strategic importance and contained production of sugar, one of Cyprus' main exports in the Middle Ages. The original castle was possibly built in 1210 by Frankish military when the land of Kolossi was given by King Hugh I to the Knights of the Order of St John of Jerusalem (Hospitallers) (see also Commandaria), and the present castle was built in 1454 by the Hospitallers. Dwellers in the castle include Richard the Lionhearted, the Templars and the already mentioned Hospitallers."

What's particularly interesting in this regard is that Cassini, Mr. Paris Prime Maridian guardian himself, went to arrange the Greenwich line, with Hershel.

7/02/2007 12:42:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

7/02/2007 02:39:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

Things are getting a little wacky here. First off, thanks, Mark--I've had similar requests to publish some of my essays from persons both known and unknown to me (I've even heard that a small group of researchers stranded somewhere on the backside of erehwon have taken to publishing them with the team's copy machine), which sounds good to me, but I have no idea how to go about "getting published". I also hear that there are more books published nowadays that people to read them, at least in the winner-take-all environment of bestselling crap and unread gems.

Second, I have to admire the maybe logic that's coming out now in this thread. It started with Movie Girl's admission that even though the CIA might have been "behind" the psychedelic revolution, it produced fruit they never imagined. How could they have hoped to contain consciousness expansion with their simplistic desire to keep young people away from politics? It takes some kind of rabbit hole moment to see conventional politics for the dead-end it is; if the Eisenhower years had continued to the present day, we wouldn't be here talking about the scam that's been perpetuated...

As for the imagination informing reality stuff, well, it's been an interest of mine for a long, long time. I'm not sure that Whitney Strieber's they-came-across-the-galaxy-to-put-a-probe-up-my-butt model is the one I'd care to embrace, but, as ericswan says, it doesn't matter if a liar tells you the truth; the truth is no less true.

That's the funny thing about the machinations of all these secret organizations & societies--they can't really control what they start when it gets out of their hands. Let's assume that Kepler was working for CHAOS, for example. He was still a Pythagorean and his 3rd Law of Planetary Motion is an integral plank in Schauberger's implosion theory.

Further, even though the Masons and their ilk have appropriated the symbology of the Pythagoreans, the Music of the Spheres can still be found down that road if we just spit on the skulls before we kick them out of our way. In fact, all this talk about ancient meridians is a little "after the fact"--the key to finding symetries between the ancient sites of magic and power is remember that the North Pole has shifted its locations many times.

In Wilson & Flem-Ath's The Atlantis Blueprint, they recalibrate the world grid of these sites by making Giza the "0" line or prime meridian. When they do this, everything falls into place, using phi--the formula of the Golden Mean. Here's an example of where these sites sit from the Giza Prime Meridian:

Ojai~~150 degrees west; Easter Island~~140 degrees west;
Teotihuacan~~130 degrees west; (map);
Tula~~130 degrees west;
Copan~~120 degrees west; Quirigua~~120 degrees west;
Lubaantum~~120 degrees west;
Quito~~110 degrees west;
Tiahuanaco~~100 degrees west (map)

That's the short list--Rosslyn, Canterbury and every other "magical place" all fall neatly into line when you apply Pythagoras to Prof. Hapgood's Crustal Displacement theory. You can make a little more sense of this here and then try: How to Test Any Ancient Site against the Atlantis Blueprint.

Most startling of all, Joni Mitchell knew all about thus stuff long before it was published, in a weird kind of way.

Look again at Woodstock: if we accept Mark's version of a sinister Wavy Gravy and the awful conditions that the Men in Black set up for their nasty experiment, why then didn't Woodstock turn into Altamont squared?

Why, the Golden Vibe, of course. It turns out that you don't even need any acid to trip your brains out...although if you do manage to get some real entheogens into your bloodstream, you'll be alright, too, once you "come back".

None of them are actually physically dangerous; that's all Go Ask Alice propaganda...but that's not really much of a surprise, is it? Especially when we know the real reason drugs have to be illegal (Bush's other base.)

Oh, yeah, now for some laughs:

Who Needs Petroleum When You Can Have Vivoleum?

7/02/2007 04:29:00 PM  
Blogger Mark said...

From IC, who just deleted the comment I'm commenting upon (ha ha), how strangely recursive. OK, He just put it back up now.

He mentioned the geodesic Giza Pyramid, interesting stuff I didn't know:

Ojai~~150 degrees west; Easter Island~~140 degrees west;
Teotihuacan~~130 degrees west; (map);
Tula~~130 degrees west;
Copan~~120 degrees west; Quirigua~~120 degrees west;
Lubaantum~~120 degrees west;
Quito~~110 degrees west;
Tiahuanaco~~100 degrees west (map);

Remember the 10 degree separation thing, and I'll come back to that.

However, Flem-Ath wants it both ways. He argues against himself at that link. He has a self-contradictory argument about "stability off Egypt (remember, aligned due north currently) as "evidence of interconnection" yet he has to ignore that current orientation to current north and then goes on to claim "instability/twist of these South American locations as equal evidence of polar shift" while the base that they are linked to in Egypt is not shifted? I don't think so.

Having both arguments simultaneously is hard to reconcile with each other, particularly when he attempts to claim that "hey, isn't it strange that [he claims] Giza moved exactly 15 degrees." Er, he begs his own question. And why would the so called evidence of shift be exactly so many degrees...instead of "wait a minute, perhaps such accuracy in supposed polar shifts can be evidence that the thesis is not sound, or at least not drawn from the evidence I'm offering":

"The first site I measured was, of course, the eternally compelling Great Pyramid at Giza. I calculated its coordinates against 60 degreeN 83 degreeW (Hudson Bay Pole). Giza had been 4524 nautical miles from the Hudson Bay Pole which meant its latitude was at 15 degree North prior to 9,600 B.C. I found it odd that Giza, which today lies at 30 degree North (one third of the distance from the equator to the pole) should have been so neatly at 15 degree North (one sixth the distance) before the last earth crust displacement."

However, he has to ignore that Giza is aligned to current north, so he can't argue it was based on a previous north at the same moment in South America that he wants, and then ignore it later--unless the south American sites are older than the Pyramid. particularly Tiahuanaco one has such a claim if you read about it in Hancock's book on the subject.

Moreover, the Amazon area basin seems to have been a site of a great urbanized area once, from rag tag archaeological anomalies mentioned in Dawn Voyage, by Bradley. Others claim that South America 'was' Atlantis...

Unless he can argue some force that would intentionally just shift it exactly 15 degrees, I don't think that he is really providing "evidence" for shift, he's just using the idea of shift to organize his data.

However, the current geodetics off Giza are what I take from that book, and not his style of argument that 'Lhasa is so many miles from Hudson Bay. Hudson Bay was the Pole. Therefore [sic], Lhasa was on the equator because it is so many miles from the past pole [sic].' That's ludicrous. That's not evidence for pole shift. That's like saying London is x miles from Greenland. X miles is additionally the distance from someplace else. Therefore London had to be once in a different location. That's stupid.

Only the current Pyramid geodesic issues is what I like about his data. I'd trust Stecchini more than Flem-Ath. Stecchini's detailed appendix to Tompkins's Secrets of the Great Pyramid is great. I added some scans of it at the link.

Remember the 10 degree issue Flem-Ath talked of? Here it is once more:

Qabba cube at Mecca, perfect Egyptian geodetics 10 degree west relationship to plumb line of Egypt

Elsewhere in book, Greek Delphi & Dodonna, 7 & 8 degree north, respectively to Egypt northernmost point).

Russian geodetics off the Dniper River, in similar Egyptian measurements--traceable as early as 600 BCE maps.

Persepolis is sited on Egyptian geodetic lines as well, as it should be: it was built by imported Egyptians for them.

7/02/2007 04:32:00 PM  
Blogger Mark said...

And perhaps the 'hottest' thing in that book:

Ark of Covenant and Great Pyramid coffer the same dimensions

Ponder on that.

7/02/2007 04:48:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

Yeah, Mark, Flem-Ath's argument appears to be contradictory, but there's a rationale for it, buried some 200 pages into The Atlantis Blueprint, which is really an annoying book, truth to tell, because its promise was to be a sequel of sorts to Wilson's From Atlantis to the Sphinx and it's not.

In the first book, Wilson argues fairly convincingly that the Egyptians were the last ancient civilization to have had a very different way of thinking about Nature--an intuitive, Lunar-heuristsic mode of thinking that allowed them to perform engineering feats we still can't match today, not to mention a physics that included anti-gravity and space/time travel.

In The Atlantis Blueprint, Wilson lends his name to Flem-Ath's crustal displacement & geodesic world grid theories without ever really getting into exactly how the ancients thought (with the exception of a theory of heuristic arithmetic, based on some huge numbers found on Sumerian tablets) and, even more disapointingly, how we might recover this knowledge. It seems to me that it's obvious that this other school of thought is the Pythagoreanism I've been on about so much this past year.

Pythagoras did cite intuition, or rather, an "unmediated and direct apprehension of the forces of Nature" as the secret knowledge passed on to him from the Hermetics and their Egyptian predecessors, and there are modern-day, very practical applications of this art of seeing the eternal forms in Nature, such as Joseph Feigelson's positive energy & water coefficient housing.

Schauberger used to get irritated with his physicist son Walter's slowness in understanding his implosion theory, telling him he had to "think an octave higher," which is straight from Pythagoras. (Via R.A. Wilson, here at Deoxy in The Octave of Energy [8-fold path, anyone? Or maybe Deoxy's Random: Interview with Hakim Bey...or, for those off on that trail, a very comprehensive RAW link nest?])

Another, less mystical route to this way of thinking is to be found in Philosophical Reflections: an analysis of Western and Eastern Philosophy, Mysticism, Religions, Modern Physics and Psychology by Dr.Abdul Lathief, which is the sort of stuff that Sounder might read for fun and which is available at Free Online Novels and Free Online Cyberbooks or in a somewhat more readable format here.

But getting back to the apparent contradiction in Flem-Ath's map, the reason he gives is that the ancients built subsequent sites after each pole shift. Now, there have been these three major shifts he looks at--the present North Pole, the Yukon Pole, and the Hudson Bay Pole--in addition to other even more ancient shifts less well defined. The most curious thing about this procession is that several of the sites fall into 2 or even 3 pole shift alignments, which is either bizarrely coincidental or the result of the sitemakers intentionally aligning the later sites with the earlier orientations as well as the (then) current north pole. Rosslyn is one of these, as are Canterbury and Glastonbury, where Green Men tend to congregate.

So, if you accept his premise that the sitemakers adjusted new sites to both the new shifts and the old pole locations, it makes sense enough...except for the question of why/how the pole shifts were so mathematically precise. Of course, Pythagoras could answer that question, too. If all this sounds too unscientific, consider how well the orthodox Egyptologists are explaining the water erosion on the Sphinx, or what the archeologists are doing to explain 90,000 year-old crystal skulls...

What's most unsatisfactory to me is why we still can't seem to see the world through the eyes of the ancients well enough to achieve lift off. Yet.

7/02/2007 08:43:00 PM  
Blogger Mark said...

"But getting back to the apparent contradiction in Flem-Ath's map, the reason he gives is that the ancients built subsequent sites after each pole shift."

That still didn't get at my critique.

I'll have to read the book.

However, he shouldn't then argue 'Giza was original zero line forSouth America,' if Giza came later than South America, in his thinking--unless Giza has been in all supposed displacement eras the zero line.

Second, as I said above he can't argue "crust shift with pole shift" in the same breath as mere rollover Earth "pole shift without crust shift" in other locations to make his data work.

He attempts to argue 'old amorphous unpredictable crust slide pre-positions' though cites [wha?] current post-shift correspondences as evidence?

Then he's not arguing crust shift at all if he claims to go around the earth currently still finding 'old correspondences' sometimes and elsewhere doing something else--'citing crust shift' to fit certain other sites in? He's gaming his own system choosing one of two theories that fits different data.

Sometimes he holds crust shift theory in abeyance in his argument, requiring no crust shift, then adds it in in other cases to explain locations of other things--though if the crust shift would be equally there for his other locations it would have already messed up his synchronous site issues before, etc.

I'll have to read the book.


Enough of this. Bush just released bestiality/pedophile novel writing friend Scooter Libby from jail.

From a memorable Jeff post on Scooter Libby, back in 2005:

I'm sorry I haven't time for a proper post today, but I feel compelled to draw your attention to The New Yorker's excerpts from the 1996 novel The Apprentice. Paedophilia, incest, bestiality: welcome to the inner life of Scooter Libby.

At age ten the madam put the child in a cage with a bear trained to couple with young girls so the girls would be frigid and not fall in love with their patrons. They fed her through the bars and aroused the bear with a stick when it seemed to lose interest.


He asked if they should fuck the deer.

(The answer, it would seem, is yes.)

Is it just another dirty book? There's no harm - or not much - in that. Hell, I wrote a book myself that could be charitably described as one, though bears coupling with children didn't occur to me. How about just another disgraced Republican's dirty book? There are plenty of those as well. But this is the long-time Chief Advisor of a man long-linked to covert-sanctioned ritual abuse and trauma-based mind control, prominent features of which are paedophilia and bestiality, writing a fictional account of child sexual slavery and rape by a domesticated bear that could have been lifted straight out of survivor literature.

The New Yorker plays it for laughs - there go those wacky Republicans, writing about weird sex again - but even if this is fiction, it's not just fiction for America's "Family Values" Fascists, is it? There's Bill Bennett's alleged dominatrix, John Bolton's crimes of passion, George HW Bush's much whispered "problem," and far too many examples of "conservative" politicians found with their pants down around young children for them to be "momentary lapses of moral judgement." This can't be answered with "mistakes were made." This is systemic pathology.

7/03/2007 02:33:00 AM  
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