Wednesday, May 09, 2007

Many Dimensions (Part Two)



Beyond the horizon across the divide
'round about midnight, we'll be on the same side - Bob Dylan


The Secret Faith

A hundred or so years ago, poet and Golden Dawn adept William Butler Yeats wrote an encouraging letter to author W.Y. Evans-Wentz, who was then researching his landmark Fairy-Faith in Celtic Countries. (An e-copy of the book may be found here.) "I am certain that it [the "Celtic fairy kingdom"] exists," said Yeats, "and will some day be studied as it was studied by Kirk." That's Robert Kirk, author of The Secret Commonwealth (also available at sacred-texts.com), a 17th Century Scottish Minister whose work is a sympathetic bestiary of elves, faunes and fairies, as well as an accounting of related paranormal phenomena.

"The men of that Second Sight do not discover strange Things when asked," Kirk writes, "but at Fits and Raptures, as if inspyred with some Genius at that Instant." In other words, those whom Kirk knew who could visit the invisible realm and return with knowledge of it did so by entering trance-like states.

Thus I have frequently spoke to one of them, who in his Transport told he cut the Bodie of one of those People in two with his Iron Weapon...yet saw nothing left behind of that appearing divyded. His Neibours often perceaved this Man to disappear at a certane Place, and about one Hour after to become visible, and discover him selfe near a Bow-shot from the first Place. It was in that Place where he became invisible, said he, that the Subterraneans did encounter and combate with him.

Invisibility, teleportation, slayings and subterranean entities: these are universal Shamanistic tropes, shared also by modern UFOlogical mythos. (Jose Antonio Da Silva described being carried by hairy dwarves into a stone chamber where he saw human bodies stacked; even the Dulce disinformation of underground battles with reptoids follow the pattern.) Credo Mutwa has said about his own experience of communicating such profound liminal encounters that "Everything was put down to black superstition, and it still is, [but] Africans simply tell what they know. " Perhaps the Irish were simply doing the same for Kirk, who died suddenly at 48 while walking up the sacred mound of Fairy Knowe. It had been his daily practice to lie upon it with his ear to the ground, listening for sounds from the secret caverns beneath. "Locals," writes Alan Richardson in his introduction to the 2005 edition, "aware of his keen interest in what he termed their 'Secret Faith,' believed that the Sithe, or faeries, had taken Kirk into their realm, leaving a 'stock' or double behind." So in death, Kirk became his own abduction account.

Evans-Wentz's book, compiled from his own fieldwork at a time when the "Secret Faith" was even more secret than in Kirk's day, contains dozen of eyewitness accounts from respected and prominent Celts, and has the feel of a Disclosure Project about it minus the background noise of covert agendas.

TC Kermode, a member of the Lower House of the Manx Parliament, declares he considers belief in fairies to be "based on an actual fact in nature, because of my own stange experience." Forty years before, walking with a friend "on the Glen Helen Road, just at the Berry Farm," he looked across the river and saw a "circle of supernatural light, which I have now come to regard as the 'astral light'...in which spirits become visible." His companion said, "Oh look, there are the fairies. Did you ever see them?" Into the circle entered "in twos and threes, a great crowd of little beings." They were dressed in red, and moved like a troop drilling. After watching for a few minutes his friend struck the roadside wall with a stick and shouted, and the vision and light faded. Kermode also notes that he had "much evidence from old Manx people, who are entirely reliable and God-fearing," that they had seen many such things also, and consider the fairies a "world in themselves, distinct from our world," and provocatively adds "where the fairies actually exist the old people cannot tell, but they certainly believe that they can be seen here on Earth." One hundred years later and he might have added that he was prepared to swear before Congress that his testimony was true.

James Caugherty, a 58-year old witness from Peel, told Evans-Wentz a reputed child abduction story. A young friend named Robby with whom he often played was walking home one evening across the hills, "and suddenly saw a little boy and a little woman coming after him. If he ran, they ran, and all the time they gained on him." Upon reaching home he was speechless, his hands and feet twisted, and remained like that for a week. The family, and Caugherty's father, believed Robby had been replaced by a changeling. He returned while they were out seeking a doctor who could work charms for his recovery. "As soon as Robby came to himself all right, he said a little woman and a little boy had followed him, and that just as he got home he was conscious of being taken away by them, but he didn't know where they came from nor where they took him." Robby was still alive, Caugherty added, and was known as Robert Christian of Douglas.

Disconcertingly, the little people don't always keep themselves to old Ireland. There are, of course, the unexpected "machine elves" that populate DMT's hyperspace, as described by Terrence McKenna.

From Erowid's ayahuasca "Experience Vault":

It may be that Terrence McKenna has simply seeded the meme-space that surrounds some tryptamines with his famous tales on self-transforming machine elves that proffer various alien objects/machines/languages with an almost malignant glee. But I certainly know what he is talking about, and these fellows now haunt the tryptamine realm for me. Tonight they leaned in quickly: “Oh you are back. We suckered you in here once again!” And they proceeded with their mischevious chittering bee-dance, as if they were coaxing me into some kind of hyperdimensional circuit that would leave sanity far behind. I never “gave in” though, whatever that means, and by the end of the trip, I was utterly tired of their cavortings.

Is there a correspondence between the elves of Kirk and Evans-Wentz and those that haunt the tryptamine realm? At least to the degree that they are both the subject of human vision. And perhaps, if their nature is exterior to our own, then it is one which is no more contained by the hyperdimensional than are we. Because, via shamanism, out-of-body experience and near-death trauma, we have found ourselves there as well.

And still, today, these old, weird tropes bleed through into our mundane modern world.

Patrick Harpur, in Daimonic Reality, notes how the President of the Wellington Women's Institute and her daughter, vacationing in Cornwall, were both struck "cold with terror" at the sight of a small man by a gate "all in green with a pointed hood and pointed ears," who was silently watching them. And a couple of years ago, discussing Budd Hopkins predisposition to pass all things weird through his ET filter, I wrote this:

Hopkins tells the story of two credible witnesses who, while driving through the wheat fields of Iowa in 1952, "came upon an eerie sight: a little old man on a bicycle, wearing lederhosen and sporting a long white beard, like something one might see rendered in wood in a Bavarian souvenir shop." About a half hour later, when they drove over a gentle rise, they encountered the same little man, "pedaling happily along in the same direction, many miles ahead of the place they had first come upon him." There were no sideroads or short cuts the cyclist could have taken, and the men had not been overtaken by a vehicle which could have given him a lift. Hopkins isn't content to let the story stand on its own strangeness. Without any justification other than his presumption of an extraterrestrial hypothesis, he posits that the figure was actually a screen memory to mask an abduction and missing time episode. After all, we can't have odd, little elfen figures bending space-time in Iowa, now can we?

Mid-morning on September 6, 1989, hunter Juan Maestas was stalking a herd of elk up a hillside in Colorado's San Luis Valley. Suddenly a twig snapped to his left and he turned to see "a fat, ugly little guy, about three feet tall," staring at him from 50 feet away. "I know how this sounds," Maestas told journalist Christopher O'Brien, as O'Brien later recorded in his Enter the Valley, "but he even had on green overalls with suspenders and a flat-topped floppy hat."

His hair was kind of reddish, and it was sticking out from underneath his cap. He had little eyes, and they seemed red and bloodshot. I could not believe I was looking at a three-foot little man! My heart was going a hundred miles per hour.... We locked eyes, and it seemed I surprised him as much as he surprised me. He sort of gave me a smile, almost like he was embarrassed, and darted behind a tree... He moved really fast - one second he was smiling at me, the next instant he was gone.... I was over there in a flash; it couldn't have been over fifty or sixty feet. I was right there. I kept my eyes on the spot so I would see him if he moved. I got to the tree and he was gone.

O'Brien adds that two weeks earlier, a quarter mile down the hill from Maestas's sighting, a family of five also reported having seen a strange little figure in green overalls and funny hat.

Curiously, early contactee reports of the modern UFO era are perhaps suggestive of transitions from traditional folkloric "little people" to the familiar "gray." For instance, 1957's John Tasco case, in which a young man saw a "brilliant egg-shaped object hovering in front of his barn" and a being who told him, in broken English, "we are a peaceful people, we only want your dog." The entity is described as dwarfish, dressed in a green suit with shiny buttons and a tam-o'-shanter like cap, but its skin was also putty-coloured and its eyes "frog-like." (Researcher Coral Lorenzen, in Charles Bowen's Humanoids, further notes that its eyes were said to be "large" and "protuberant.")

UFOs and grays are one thing, but does the phenomenon want to make fools of us? Almost certainly.

The Secret Ceremony

San Luis Valley is famously a locus for many strange congruencies. It was home to Snippy the horse, America's most celebrated, strangely mutilated beast.

Snippy died 40 years ago but the mutilations continue. Though the "newsworthiness of the subject has died down," according to a rare, recent report in New Mexico's Gallup Independent, "there are still hundreds, if not thousands [of cases] reported worldwide each year."

How can this not be news? Perhaps because our modern world lacks the categories with which to make sense of it. Stories of mythic scale and significance can fall through the cracks because our newsrooms simply don't know how to tell them anymore, or even recognize them.

Investigator Robert Allen explains to the Independent that "people just can't grasp this unless they have actually seen the mutilated animal themselves.... You can either pretend that these things didn't happen or you can look at it with an open mind." Though Allen is arguably guilty of narrowed vision himself by presuming the simplest explanation for the mysterious desanguinqtion and anal and genital coring must be extraterrestrial R&D.

Similarly, though seemingly unrelated, a month-old story from the Guardian that has also fallen through the cracks:

Devil worship links to mystery man

Police in northern Italy are wrestling with a mystery that brings together a man with memory loss, evidence of devil worship and a blood-drenched flat. One evening a young man wandered into a police station at Vercelli, between Turin and Milan. He said he had no idea who he was, or why he was there. Three days earlier, on March 16, the owner of a bedsit outside Bergamo, more than 70 miles away, had broken into her flat. The tenant had not paid his rent and she wanted to know if he was still there.

She found signs everywhere that it had been used for a Satanic rite. There were upturned crosses, and the place was smothered with symbols written in blood. Forensic experts estimated that as much as three litres had been splashed around.

Only later was it established that all of it belonged to the confused man. He has since been identified as a 22-year-old called Daniele, who, until recently, worked in a factory. His family said his only hobby was UFOs. They told police that, last September, he had suddenly left his job and spent his savings, though his relations with his parents, who he now says he cannot recognise, continued to seem normal.

According to a report in the daily Corriere della Sera, doctors have found he has punctures on his body. But there is no evidence that Daniele had taken drugs. Among the puzzles are how a man who had lost almost three litres of blood could have made his way 70 miles across country - and what happened to him in the three days that he was missing. Prosecutors are treating it as case of attempted murder.

...

Psychiatrists who have examined Daniele are convinced he is not feigning amnesia. Doctors, meanwhile, have found he has a scar, about an inch long, on his right arm and a series of smaller punctures on other parts of his body.

But there is no evidence that Daniele had taken drugs, and the marks do not correspond to those left when blood is extracted in the normal way by medical staff.... As for the young man himself, all he can offer them is the faint recollection of an abbey.


A young man, noted only for his interest in UFOs, is found scarred and desanguinated; an amnesiac who can only account for what befell him with the "faint recollection of an abbey." And more recently, another story from Italy has three female teachers - churchgoers who also taught Sunday School - arrested for sedating and sexually abusing their students. Children's pictures of the "games" they had been forced to play included "a 'man in black' who wore a hood and drank his own blood, and said they had played a game in which 'a wolf chases a squirrel and eats it.'"

All of these stories, including the cattle mutilations, imply ritual and sacrifice. No wonder the media doesn't know what to do with them, how to connect them, or even whether they are "newsworthy." These are religious stories. And religious ritual and sacrifice pertains to intercession and the opening of doors.

The Large Hadron Collider, with its smashing of countless particles in order to make inference of another side (literally, with respect to extra-geometric dimensions), will also tell religious stories. As Patrick Harpur writes, "the so-called New Physics smelled a rat long ago. they began to compare the whole enterprise to oriental religion or to suspect that its reality is primarily metaphorical, not literal or factual." Whatever the "elves" or the "aliens" may be, I doubt what they represent to us is a representation of their literal nature. If we're being spoken to, or toyed with, the medium is metaphor.

Richard L Thompson in Alien Identities recalls the story of UFO contactee Pat Price. (Note that this is not the same Pat Price as Menlo Park's most accomplished remote viewer and "Operating Thetan IV," who was himself fascinated by UFOs and claimed to have remote viewed several. Though interestingly, John Keel has observed how the phenomenon is occasionally shared among those who share the same names.) Price, in conversation with Berkeley researcher James Harder, described his telepathic conversation with the "leader":

Price: He drew me a circle, and he showed me some lines, and he told me "people can coexist - and not no it."
Harder: What kind of lines did he draw in the circle?
Price: Parallel lines.
Harder: What did he mean by this do you think?
Price: He said, "What we do, destructively, will affect them too." [sigh] I don't know what he was talking about - he just scared me.

"You cannot lift your hand without influencing and being influenced by hordes," wrote Yeats.

64 Comments:

Blogger ericswan said...

In 1890, Blavatsky warned Yeats not to dabble the knowledge she gave him in the dark sciences. He ignored her and she excommunicated him from the theosophical society.

Jeff, you dismiss the Dulce wars rather cavilarily but take the position that faeries are okay? I would be reluctant to defend either position. Blavatsky taught Yeats that man evolved from cosmic waves that mutated gold by adding a particle to it everytime the wave swept through the universe. This density also changed man. This is Dan Winter's theory of the torus. My theory is that the time and space we occupy is immutable but influential. Everytime we occupy "it" whether it is coming or going through a torus, we are affected. Think good thoughts. They may come back to you.

5/09/2007 10:00:00 AM  
Blogger Shrubageddon said...

Where are The Three Musketeers (Orz, Nomo and philipacentaur) to chastise and debunk this expose of "impaired judgement." Gee, let's get creative like them and see what we can conjure up.

Perhaps this has something to do with the Apollo Moon Landings, and NASA, in general. It could explain the odd behavior of the Astronauts upon their return from the Big Cheese. Maybe they saw Leprechauns and Fairies on the Bella Luna while chowing down on their Frosted Lucky Charms and maybe they were Changelings upon their return. Anything's possible, isn't it? Or, maybe Fruitcakes who see these things are just that...Fruitcakes. Or, maybe it's just their vivid imaginations playing tricks on them. Or, maybe they've been exposed to moldy bread or wheat and they've been having hallucinations. If there was something more to this, it would be known by now. There would have to be too many people involved for there to be some kind of exploitive, manipulative shenanigans going on.....Occam's Razor, you know.

The above should not be construed as Shrub's own thoughts and feelings...he was merely role playing to make a point.

5/09/2007 01:28:00 PM  
Blogger tazmic said...

Indeed,

There are such things as emergent phenomena in self organising systems; rhizomatic spaces with inputs falsely presented as linear & deterministic... like voting giving representation to public need.

What is this obsession with control?

I just watched Alan Watt's Conversation in the Woods.

He has a problem, for example, with the indoctrination we force on children in schools. But takes no time to consider the inevitability of this in any social framework.

It doesn't need to be a conspiracy. The problem is the trajectory, whether encouraged or not. The empire of Capital injects it's own sustaining feedback loops that through generations re-form the mind-scape. A fascist society doesn't need sheep to support its organic growth. It carries it's own momentum.

What's needed is escape lines, fractures in the system that are powerful enough to pull the network with it.

What is it that makes us are own worst enemy?

5/09/2007 03:12:00 PM  
Blogger Clint Laskowski said...

Does anyone know if Prince drew a copy of what he was talking about (circle with parallel lines in it)? And, if any copy is available on the 'net?

5/09/2007 05:29:00 PM  
Blogger Brian said...

The Little Man Who's Always There
Friday, Apr. 03, 1964

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,939433,00.html

"Whenever President Johnson strides down the ramp from his presidential jet, not far behind trots Jack Valenti, 42, a banty Texas Italian who seems to have Greasy Kid Stuff all over his hair.

Whenever Johnson's big black Cadillac pulls up to a curb, the President leaves from one door while from another pops Jack Valenti. At home, whenever the President wants his Cutty Sark and soda, the chances are Jack Valenti will be there with it. Even when Johnson is swimming nude in the White House pool, Jack Valenti is there—dutifully logging a daily eight laps alongside the President.

Just who is Jack Valenti, the little man who's always there? Officially he is on the White House staff as a $20,000-a-year "special consultant." But to Lyndon Johnson he is much more. Said the President shortly after he took office:

"The first man I appointed to my staff when I became President was Jack Valenti, whose grandfather came from Italy and who incidentally is about the best fellow with me. He gets up with me every morning. He stays up with me until I go to bed at night, around midnight, and he is the only one who can really take it. The rest of these fellows are sissies."

"The friendship blossomed—profitably for Valenti, for in 1960 his agency handled Texas advertising for the Kennedy-Johnson ticket. During that period, Valenti met Mary Margaret Wiley, a pretty Austin girl who had been one of Johnson's secretaries since 1954.

At their wedding, in June 1962, Johnson gave the bride away. Valenti saw a lot of the Johnsons after that. On the night of last Nov. 21, Valenti whomped up a big ceremonial dinner in Houston for Albert Thomas—with both Vice President Johnson and President Kennedy on hand. Next day, Johnson insisted that Valenti accompany him to Dallas, even got him a place in the presidential motorcade. When Kennedy was killed, Jack Valenti was almost immediately at Johnson's side.

He stayed there during the historic moment in the sweltering cabin of Air Force One when Johnson was sworn in, and he flew right on to Washington without even a clean shirt along."

5/09/2007 06:07:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

Okay, now this one is distracting me from much more needful things, and I only respond reluctantly and with considerable annoyance…for the common good, of course. My spleen was long ago emptied. That said, I object! Why must we bring out the old paint brushes to fill in the details in the new landscapes of the emerging (unfolding?) extra dimensions? Am I saying that SRA doesn’t happen and the elite aren’t behind? Of course not—they’ll branch out into any territory they can manipulate to their advantage. That blisteringly obvious fact is no reason to paint those extra Ds in the all too familiar NWO gangsta colors.

Toward the end of the last thread Mark made a startling, psychotropic comment about the process of unfolding the higher dimensions (@ 5/08/2007 05:17:00 PM, complete with links to the new animated version of Flatland.) As most everyone knows, just as there are many different doors into “somewhere else”—ecstasy, in its myriad forms, fear, love, unexpected epiphany, etc--so too are these other-wheres varied in their qualities and inhabitants. There are good trips and bad, valuable insights and horrid infestations—such is the nature of any journey. It can be as simple as suddenly understanding, beyond mere words the intimate but unsuspected connection between two seemingly disparate things.

Here’s the thing—the one area where break sharply with Jeff is on his presentation of the occult. There are many ironies within this split; for example, Jeff’s uneasiness with RAW, whom I’ve been reading for 30 years without fear of being infiltrated by meme-agents of the OTO. The fact is that I just don’t like the way the Dark Side is always shown to attain to mysterious, invulnerable power in the new worlds through the agency of these nasty satanic rituals. As I’ve many times asked, Who says that these sickos are empowered by doing unspeakable things to kids? Who is spreading this meme and why?

Let’s first fuel up on the necessary suspicion (assuming we’re all sufficiently morally outraged at the injustice of this shit happening to defenseless children) by examining the effect of the propagation of this meme. If the Moloch-curtseying Kissingers of the world already have the tentacled resources of the M-I-S complex (Surveillance gets its own letter now) at their disposal, then their apparent mastery of these realms still unknown by the masses surely makes them invincible…what is a poor, frightened hobbit to do? This is what I hate about the whole Illuminati business—if such things exist, can they have any greater strength than the helplessness and fear which the shocking tales of their serial intrigues inspire?

Shrub asks, innocently enough, how the existence of other dimensions can be kept secret (which differs from the ignorance of compartmentalization which asks the same question of all conspiracy theories) and this, I think is where the key to the whole thing lies. It has not been kept secret.

I would go even further—I would say that this NOB (Nasty Occult Business) has been carefully cultivated for maximum effect. Super-Ultra Modified Limited Hang Out, in fact. Except that the stories of the Sidhe were something else before they became myths, folktales...and ruthlessly exploited NWO gangster memes. They are said to have been true accounts.

Here’s what we know about myths: they are universal in human culture and they share many qualities, characters and functions, both socially and in the individual. Despite the continuing role (need?) of (for) myth in modern humans, the Old Ways are seen around the world as being in retreat from modernity, specifically from Reason and its machines. So accustomed are we to the postwar rise in SRA statistics that we forget that until the Occult Revival of the Thulesters and their ilk, at which point the public relations department of the Cabal discovered the usefulness of occultism in politics, the wee folk were on the run:

"Bulldozers now level fairie raths and sweep away fairie trees, and the Good People appear to be unable to defend and preserve their homes. No farmer nowadays would allow some of the milk from his milking machine to run off on the ground as a tribute for the fairies. Nobody ever applies to the fairies for permission and approval when he wishes to build a house. Fairie places and fairie passes are no longer treated with respect...........All this is obvious to anyone who looks around at the Ireland of today." (from The Old Gods: The facts about Irish Fairies by Patrick Logan)

If this is starting to sound like I believe in the little people, it’s not because I do (or don’t) but because it makes no sense to take something seriously enough to be frightened by it if we’re not willing to apply some sort of rigor to our consideration of such possibilities. If other dimensions exist, what are the rules? Is it all inherently evil, from our perspective, or does good exist “there” and are we powerless when once we trespass into those domains?

As to what the “rules” are, and whether we’re so defenseless as we’ve been led to believe, try Christopher Bryant’s take on the light-hearted work of Terry Pratchett, whom he takes very seriously over at L-Space which I quote now for the many-eth time:

The condition of hyperreality, as posited by Jean Baudrillard in The Order Of Simulacra, leads to a world in which there are no distinctions between the simulacra and that which they simulate:

"The new postmodern universe tends to make everything a simulacrum. By this Baudrillard means a world in which all we have are simulations, there being no 'real' external to them, no 'original' that is being copied. There is no longer a realm of the 'real' versus that of 'imitation' or 'mimicry' but rather a level in which there are only simulations."

Baudrillard's example to illustrate this principle involves "a map so detailed that it ends up exactly covering the territory" - a 1:1 scale simulation which effectively replaces the original. It is this effect which Baudrillard suggests has already taken place.

The idea of simulations superseding that which is simulated is a common theme in the Discworld novels. One book which employs the concept is Moving Pictures, which culminates in the characters from a popular film bursting through the screen at the premiere and into reality. The star of the film, Victor, is present at the premiere, and the crowd expectantly wait for him to save the day, ignoring his protests that it was all acting. The solution, in fact, turns out to be quite simple, in a Discworld sort of way - Victor yells "Lights! Picture box! Action!", the cameras start rolling, and he is able to become the hero of the film once again. So-called "movie rules" are made to work in the "real" world: "we live in a world of simulacra where the image or signifier of an event has replaced direct experience and knowledge of its referent or signified."

Ankh-Morpork, the principal location in which the novels take place, is a city obsessed with simulations. A recurring phrase through the books serves as a subtle indicator: "Technically, Ankh-Morpork is built on loam, but what it is mainly built on is Ankh-Morpork". The original city has burnt down, been flooded, been invaded, been attacked by dragons or had parts of it blown up or accidentally turned into jam by the wizards from Unseen University so many times that the city which now calls itself Ankh-Morpork is nothing more than a simulation of the original city, yet is equal and in many ways greater than its model. Its inhabitants are also entirely willing to accept new versions of reality as absolute, whether they come from the Odium picture house, the Dysk theatre, the opera house or simply from a good liar.


I wrote about this once in response to Jeff’s The Clown at Midnight post, where I then applied the “lessons” from TP to this SRA stuff:

In Lords and Ladies, the elves are coming back to the Discworld, and they're not at all what they were for Tolkien. They represent glamour and illusion covering abduction, murder and worse. And Pratchett's "defense" against the real power of/behind the illusion? Remembering what's what by disbelieving the evidence of your senses, especially when it's a story being "told" at a distance. the metaphor he uses is iron as a talisman; because it's so real, the elves can't abide its touch and it keeps you grounded. Is it just possible that we're losing our connection to the earth and the secret to standing up to the illusionists because we give them too much of our belief? It's complicated and paradoxical, I know, since these things really are real, apparently, but it's our knowing that they're real which gives them their reality, apparently.

This idea, first that we give the other dimensions their strength (if not their reality entirely) and second that we can take it back through resolute disbelieving or the waving of things as real as iron as talismans is not something dreamt up by Baudrillard and Pratchett but comes from the literature itself. Jeff mentions Kirk’s book—this is no 17th century Joseph Campbell intellectual exercise, but an attempt at an historical survey of a disappearing world. While the circumstances of the Book of Kirk—its mysterious disappearance, reemergence, publishing, suppression, translation and alteration—are a bit odd, no one has suggested that Kirk wrote this account to entertain an audience. If anyone’s interested in modern day attempts like this, try TALES OF THE DAOINE SIDHE .

In the meantime, resist the Fear (I know its addictive, but do you feel any better in the morning?)

5/09/2007 06:51:00 PM  
Blogger tazmic said...

Well IC, that certainly answers my (misspelt) question ;)

5/09/2007 07:24:00 PM  
Blogger ericswan said...

Truth is singular and it's opposite is divided.

5/09/2007 08:57:00 PM  
Blogger marykmusic said...

I, for one, not only believe in but feel I am aware of the historical origin of the Faerie Folk. And just because bulldozers are destroying their lairs now, doesn't mean that they will not in the end have something to say about it.

In the pre-Christian era, the sons of Mil, known after as the Milesians, were a part of the Iberian Celts who emigrated to Ireland as the Romans overran their territory. What they founf there were the Tuatha de Danaan, a people conversant in not only magick, but able to appear and disappear in fog and call in weather. The Milesians challenged them for territory rights, and it was a hard battle, but ultimately the Milesians displaced the inhabitants. Instead of leaving, however, the Tuatha de Danaan simply disappeared... into another dimension of sorts.

Perhaps it was because the Milesians brought iron with them...

The faerie stories that Yeats collected were still alive to the people of rural Ireland just over a hundred years ago.

Irish descendants to this day count among them some with "second sight." We've heard this type of story before...

5/09/2007 09:49:00 PM  
Blogger just_another_dick said...

More fairy gold that may yet turn to dross:

From an FT article by Therese Taylor about Lourdes. No link. Just old fashioned printed paper. Sorry.

"The Cave of Massabielle has an identifiable history prior to the apparitions of 1858. This rocky outcrop on the left bank of the river Gave, a short walk from the town of Lourdes, was part of a chain of grottos, some of which opened into deep caverns within the mountains. The grottos were sufficiently notable to feature in guidebooks to the region, although one's response to them was always dependent on class and social factors. To the educated, such natural formations were the occasion for scientific exploration and scenic appreciation; to the common people, they were sites of supernatural activity. As the 19th century anthropologist Andre Lefevre wrote: "There is hardly a single French province which does not have trees, grottoes or dolmens which are haunted by fairies. One hears of fairy pillars and rocks, fairy nooks, fairy wells, lakes, houses and chambers of fairies, wraiths and sorcerors."
Superstitions concerning Massabielle provide evidence of a reputation both sacred and demonic, of a place both haunted and holy.
When describing the area, local writer Lagreze noted that "the belief in fairies and sorcerors is dear to our mountain people", but did not record exactly what stories the grotto inspired. The fairies were also known as 'white ladies', and they lived in caves, dolmens and groves. These nature spirits could be either well or ill disposed towards humans, and the could also be lustful, capricious, and powerful. They retained all the characteristics of pagan deities mingled with later Christian elements. The figure of a powerful or impressive Fairy Queen was often mixed up with that of the Virgin Mary, whose image she both shaped and mirrored.
The fairies around Lourdes were familiar to the people of the town, and were known to live at Massabielle. Even today, the Lourdes Grotto is known as 'Fairy Cave' among local people. Lourdes tradition also linked the area of Massabielle to the Virgin Mary. It was claimed that in the 11th century Lourdes had been dedicated in feudal vassalage to Notre Dame de Puy, and that every year green herbs from the fields around Massabielle were gathered and offered to this ancient icon."

-snip-

"Bernadette's visions were the talk of the area, and soon extended beyond the common people who made up her first audience. Adelaide Monlaur, the daughter of a local schoolteacher, wrote to her cousin about these startling events. Her letter of March 8, 1858 mused on the history of the Grotto:

"Sometime before this extraordinary affair, a charcoal maker came from the forest carrying a faggot of wood; he was near the Grotto when he was caught in a shower of rain. He dropped his wood and went to shelter himself in the Grotto; a moment later, he heard plaintive cries and moans like a voice of someone suffering; he was so afraid that he had to leave, preferring, he said, to be soaked to the skin rather than to say there.
Another time, a shepherd was driving his flock nearby, when, like the other man, he was obliged to seek shelter from the rain; he wanted to make his flock enter, but he could not make them enter and they began to bleat in a strange way; he left them outside and went into the Grotto himself, there he also heard the sighs and moans; he came out quickly despite the rain, for he was afraid. "

-snip-

"From the end of April 1858, people began to report that they had seen visions, either at the Grotto or other locations. Most were children, but they included women and some men.

Francoise Junca, who watched a group of children fall into trances at the Grotto, described how they "threw themselves on their knees, together like one man, then they would rise...weep, cry, lament, then they would suddenly fall to their knees again: and we, we followed all their changes, all their prostrations." The eccentricity of these displays did not repulse her. She found the children to young and naive to be capable of invention, "therefore for them there was a vision, and also for us, the spectators." The Grotto, however, was a gateway to the other world, and anything might come through it.

Soon, many visionaries were showing signs that they were in communication with either nature spirits or devils. Local folklore preserved chilling stories of a beautiful white lady who appeared around Massabielle. Unlike Bernadette's Dame, she did not remain stationary but floated in the air and beckoned to the children who saw her, luring them towards the precipices. The white lights, also, would fascinate the watchers and draw them towards the caverns. Several visionaries would have stepped over cliffs or into the rushing water of the Gave had they not been restrained. The children at the Grotto sometimes exhibited signs that they were possessed."





&, coincidentally enough, there's this from About.com:

Cape Cod Mystery
by Robert Odenthal

"It was in the middle of March when my spouse and I went to visit Cape Cod, Massachusetts (Provincetown is where we were staying). We left from Teaneck, New Jersey around nine in the morning and got to Cape Cod around three in the afternoon with intentions of staying there for three days."

-snip-

"I got back to my room around almost 8 and decided to relax on the bed with my spouse and watch TV for a little. I still had the eerie feeling someone was watching me. I tried to take my mind off of it, but I couldn't, so I decided to sleep it off. I awoke around 12 at night with my spouse asleep next to me. I had the feeling like someone was watching me still, so I went to the window to look (now our window in the inn was facing directly the harbor we were only about 300 ft. from the water).

What I saw next I couldn't believe my eyes. I was staring out toward the ocean and the ocean looked BLACK, like not just how the ocean looks at night, but the water was black as the night sky. I peered out and saw a woman in a white gown with a veil over her face floating above the water. That's when I realized it wasn't a human being. This woman was about 30 ft. out in the ocean where the water is certainly over 12 ft. deep. She started to make a gesture with her hand like, "Come with me," and all of a sudden a force crept on me that was indescribable. It felt like I was being pulled out to the ocean by this being.

I was a quite in a shock by this, so I closed the blinds, decided to sit down in the recliner and relax. I did so and this force would not go away. I felt like I had to get up and go out there to talk to this being. I actually had to hold myself down in the recliner to not do so. The words "go to her" or "come with me" kept repeating in my brain, and I kept telling it "no, no, no." It was a good 20 minutes and this force was still with me. I decided to check if this "being" was still out there, so I peered through the blinds and there she still was floating out in the water, gesturing me to come with her.

At this point I was in such shock I was in a cold sweat. My whole body was shaking and I could barely move. I finally woke up my spouse to tell her what I was seeing. She didn't believe me and rolled back to sleep. I told her to come look out the window to see if she could see what I was seeing. She did so and said she didn't see anything and that I was crazy. So she went back to bed.

Another 30 minutes went by with me trying to keep myself put in the chair, and all of a sudden the force was gone. I felt normal again. I looked out the window and the woman was gone."

As the eerie sound of a lone Therimin competes with the crashing of the waves I bid you a fond adieu.

5/10/2007 12:34:00 AM  
Blogger Brenda said...

"we are a peaceful people, we only want your dog."

I love that quote. It gives with one hand and takes with the other doesn't it? So typical of them.

==========================

I am curious about something. Are there any examples of the "fair folk" following us into the cyber world? Of course, how would anyone tell? After all, any decent hacker can take over your PC and turn it into a zombie. So how could you tell a "real" example of an other worldly presence online from just an adept geek/hacker/programmer?

I imagine there are ghost stories involving PCs just as there are for telephones and TVs, but I'm not really thinking of that.

Maybe they can't follow us here. After all, this is our domain. We created it out of whole cloth from our own phantasies. You can be anything and anyone on the internet, maybe that keeps them out?

5/10/2007 01:03:00 AM  
Blogger Brenda said...

Oh, sorry about the double post. Philip K. Dick's "The Divine Invasion" is a modern take on "The Secret Commonwealth". Very good, I highly recommend it.

5/10/2007 01:08:00 AM  
Blogger Shrubageddon said...

Are there any examples of the "fair folk" following us into the cyber world? Of course, how would anyone tell?

Can you be certain (of course you can't) that we haven't followed "them" into CyberLand? Afterall, someone said before that Magic is merely advanced technology for which we have no perceptual benchmark.

They're Magically Delicious.

5/10/2007 09:24:00 AM  
Blogger hoi polloi said...

Alien abduction?

The Stolen Child by W.B. Yeats

Where dips the rocky highland
Of Sleuth Wood in the lake,
There lies a leafy island
Where flapping herons wake
The drowsy water-rats;
There we've hid our faery vats,
Full of berries
And of reddest stolen cherries.
Come away, O human child!
To the waters and the wild
With a faery, hand in hand,
For the world's more full of weeping than you can understand.

Where the wave of moonlight glosses
The dim grey sands with light,
Far off by furthest Rosses
We foot it all the night,
Weaving olden dances,
Mingling hands and mingling glances
Till the moon has taken flight;
To and fro we leap
And chase the frothy bubbles,
While the world is full of troubles
And is anxious in its sleep.
Come away, O human child!
To the waters and the wild
With a faery, hand in hand,
For the world's morefully of weeping than you can understand.

Where the wandering water gushes
From the hills above Glen-Car,.
In pools among the rushes
That scarce could bathe a star,
We seek for slumbering trout
And whispering in their ears
Give them unquiet dreams;
Leaning softly out
From ferns that drop their tears
Over the young streams.
Come away, O human child!
To the waters and the wild
With a faery, hand in hand,
For to world's morefully of weeping than you can understand.

Away with us he's going,
The solemn-eyed:
He'll hear no more the lowing
Of the calves on the warm hillside
Or the kettle on the hob
Sing peace into his breast,
Or see the brown mice bob
Round and round the oatmeal-chest.
For he comes, the human child,
To the waters and the wild
With a faery, hand in hand,
from a world more full of weeping than you can understand.

5/10/2007 01:52:00 PM  
Blogger Jeff said...

I meant to use "Stolen Child" in the post, but forgot. Thanks for the lyrics.

Here's Lorenna McKennitt singing Stolen Child last year.

5/10/2007 01:57:00 PM  
Blogger Shrubageddon said...

Fairies are so passé. Now we have Boobah and Teletubbies.

5/10/2007 02:30:00 PM  
Blogger Dr. Bombay said...

Last summer a friend of mine
decided it was time to take a long
vacation and ride his Harley out
west to Sturgis, South Dakota for
the annual meet. He had just
bought a new bike (with funds from
a major real estate deal) and felt
the timing was perfect. When he
returned six weeks later he came
by the house for a couple of beers
and to tell me of his adventure.
He told me that after leaving
Sturgis he decided to head south
to Colorado. He had no reason to
go there as it added another 500
miles or so to the trip but he
said the thought just popped into
his head and before he knew it he
was in Colorado. Heading south he
skirted Denver and further along
he saw a sign for The Dunes
National Park and the San Luis
Valley. He felt compelled to keep
riding and finally ended up in the
small town of Blanca, about two
hours south of Baca Grande.
After grabbing a bite to eat he
started to leave the diner when
he noticed a bulletin board with
a hand written flyer that said
"Land for sale - 10 acres"
Then he told me,"I dont know why
but I just had to call the number
on the flyer to check out the
property. I called the guy, he told
me it was just north of town and he would meet me out there if I was
interested. I went to meet him ,the price seemed right,
and I said what the hell and I
bought it". Thats when I asked him
if the property was in the San Luis
Valley. He said he thought it was
and thats when I got up out of my
chair, headed into the house and
dug out my copy of "The Mysterious
Valley" by Chris O'Brien. I headed
back outside and as I handed the
book to him I said "Do you realize
that you rode from Rhode Island
to Colorado and ended buying a
piece of property in one of the
biggest UFO hot spots in the
world?". He looked a bit stunned
and then began to thumb through
the book. We spent several hours
talking about the valley and how
he came to end up there.
"It was all just done on a whim"
he said more than once. While we
were talking I told him that in
one of Edgar Cayce's books he
predicted that after the next pole
shift (2012?) Phoenix, Az would
be "water front" property. "Maybe
thats where you'll ride it out?"
I told him half kidding. He didnt
say anything but just took another
pull off his beer. Last month
he was offered three times what he
paid for the land by someone in
California but turned them down.
I'm glad he did because I want to
make my own trip and check out all
the "High Weirdness". And isnt
Richard Branson building a "space
port" out there as well?


Re Eric: You mentioned you are
an organic farmer. Well I just read
that organic farmers are not having
major bee colony die offs. In fact,
according to a report out of Britan, there might be a link between the bee die offs and GM
crops with modified genes. And, oh
yeah, the Chem-trails are back
bigtime here in New England. At
sunset today one trail looked like
a horizontal rainbow. It reminded
me of the multi-colored sheen you
get when you pour oil into a shallow puddle of water.

5/10/2007 11:59:00 PM  
Blogger Frances said...

The absolutely strangest experience I have ever had involves an encounter with a dwarf/gnome/spirit/creature.

It was the last night I ever slept in the home I grew up in. My parents were selling it and moving down to Florida to retire. It was close to christmas and the ground was frozen solid and covered with snow.
My bedroom was located at the back of the house on the second story. Just outside of my window (the old fashioned double set, with the wooden framed panes of glass) was the roof of a small extension and along its wall ran a fence that divided our house from the neighbours. I mention this because sometime in the middle of the night I awoke to what sounded like a very large cat climbing up that fence and onto the roof. Cat, but the sound also conjured up the image of a rat. Cat rat whatever it was on the roof and making its way through the windows. " I'll just lie here and feign sleep. It will leave me alone." And so I pretended to sleep, only my eyes were wide open and looking directly into the eyes of the most ancient face I have ever seen. His expression was somber, grave, serious. He wasnt just expressing seriousness, he was the gravity. If that makes sense. He had the kind of depth and severity that living for a thousand years would impart to a character. He stood about 4 feet tall and wore a red cap, carried a lantern lit with red light, and an empty red bag was slung over his back. His face was clean shaven. I dont remember his clothing style or colour, they were dark. His eyes commanded all of my (terrified) attention. He stood over my bed watching me for some time, then crossed the floor of my bedroom and stood at the entrance to my parents bedroom. He was just watched them as they slept. "He's taking something from them. Something precious. NO!" As I thought this he sensed it and turned to look at me. I sat up and screamed. And awoke to a pitch black room. I immediately apologized for having disturbed my parents and promptly went back to sleep.
Now I have always had exceptionally lucid dreams and in the morning at breakfast I began to dissect it. A bizarre reverse santa? the garden gnomes in our back yard come to life? The ncc midget gardener of my childhood who we were always strangly intrigued by and terrified of? Maybe. But this 'dream' was different because it was the first and only dream in which I had been fully awake. The first terrifying dream that I awoke from and then promptly went back to sleep. That just never happens. I will turn the light on, I meditate on it, maybe get up and have tea, write about it. It didnt feel like a dream...but at that time I didnt know what else to call it. I had no reference in which to frame it. So I left it alone. Filed it under 'unknown' and went on about my life.
2 years later in October my mother got sick with cancer and passed over. A year later, close to christmas my father followed. I was with him for his last breaths.
Very shortly after that I was reading 'Communion'. I have always used a healthy pinch of salt when reading abduction stories but then I came to the afterword, where this very creature I had encountered is mentioned. It brought the whole 'dream' experience out of storage and I began to look at the gnome/dwarf spirit entity very differently. That was 15 yrs ago, and I am still trying to make sense of it. I worried for many years that seeing this creature would portend a death in my family. And I kicked myself for not having the courage to ask him, "who are you? What do you want?" If there is a next time I will be braver for sure.
And I just thought of something else now...that may also be connected. When my dad was ill he wouldnt let me come visit with him until it was very close to his time to go. He had jokingly told my brother that he thought I was 'cursed' and that my presence would make advance his cancer. That was totally out of character for my dad to speak that way. He was the most rational and logical 'straight thinking' guy I knew. Why would my dad think that...perhaps that night my parents had been pre-consciously aware of this entity's presence.

Over the years I have spoken to only a handful of people about this. Its just too strange and leaves me feeling vulnerable. The responses vary. The one response that seems to fit, but is also creepy/weird is that he is a spirit catcher. I have never heard more about this though and would like to know. Does anyone here have any info on spirit catchers or this gnome-like entity i am talking about?
Thanks for the space to share.

5/11/2007 02:55:00 AM  
Blogger just_another_dick said...

John McCain is a master of the selective understatement.

"GRAND RAPIDS, Mich. - Republican presidential candidate John McCain (news, bio, voting record) said Thursday he believes
President Bush's low approval ratings are hurting the GOP yet won't affect the party's 2008 nominee

"I don't think there's any doubt that when the president's polling numbers are low that it harms the Republican Party in general, but I think that when it comes election time that the overwhelming majority of Americans will choose their candidate on the basis of that individual candidate's qualifications, vision and record," McCain said in an interview with The Associated Press."

Y'see, apparently those broad manly GOP shoulders have no trouble whatsoever bearing up under an illegal war, huge gobs of unnecessary dead folk, a military that builds an abattoir then camps out amongst its whirling blades, the huuuuuuge effing sucking sound that all those "better spent elsewhere" tax dollars are making as they flush down through the hole in Bush's head & into the toilet bowl of history, the Cuban "terrorist" Alcatraz filled with "terrorists" whose only crime appears to have involved being in public with their "SELL ME TO THE STUPID AMERICANS" sign in full view, an America with a "TORTURE IS GOOD STRATEGY" fact gathering policy, an idiot of a President who apparently finds stringing 2 sentences into a coherent thought more taxing than scaling Mt. Everest , & a gang of lunatic neo-con desk jockey ideologues riding roughshod over all our "cherished ideals & freedoms."

Nope.

No problem whatsover. Nothing of the above mars the GOP sheen in the least.

But those low approval ratings, well that's a horse of a different color altogether.

All I need to make this early morning 'insomnia sundae' complete is to read some new quote from one of the stellar Democratic candidates for Prez-e-dent who originally supported all of the above but NOW thinks that I should be DUMB ENOUGH to believe that they've somehow WISED UP since being expertly BAMBOOZLED by President 'SILVERTONGUE' himself.

Yep.

That would be gooey calorie laden goodness for all.

Then I could go back to worrying about the 6 yoo-hoos who thought that attacking an Army base was a brilliant idea.

Or maybe Paris & her upcoming jailtime.

Or, to delve deeper, I could worry about why my head is filled with oodles of unsolicited & unneeded pop culture bullshit yet I can't seem to remember everything I need while at the grocery store.

Or I suppose I could sputteringly shriek/whine, ineffectually stomp my widdle feet, & march myself back up to bed to compulsively stare at my bedroom ceiling for the rest of the night.

Choices my friends, in the end, that's what freedom is really about, isn't it?

5/11/2007 03:17:00 AM  
Blogger Silverfox said...

We see no more than "a picture" of reality. To be sure it is a living, growing, and dynamic picture at evry moment, even as we know our personal appearances within it to be, but just how far are we actually willing go to understand it?

In the late 80's scientists were forced to concede that the universe is continuing to expand and in order to "adjust" to that unexpected outcome on their part they coined name "dark matter" for what fills that vast emptiness that only appears to be empty since "nothing" cannot expand or grow.

Without saying as much, however,(nor will they now), that also means that all the knowledge or understanding of our universe we have actually acquired now amounts to far less than 1% of whatever it genuinely is.

I would like everyone to take a few minutes to watch a small video with an open mind. "A picture" of our reality assembled completely out of known and observed facts that are essentailly self-explanatory, sef-referential, and self-evident.

Now I should not need to mention that the prevailing scientific view completely denies what you are going to see. In fact you yourselves have all been taught that very same "scientific" viewpoint in grade school.

Bearing that in mind try to rewind yourself to a point prior to what you were taught and compare that information equally and without prejudice to what you are about to see.

Now you are not forced by any means to believe anything except whatever you choose for yourself. In fact you really ought to have have as many pictures as you can find and feel no urgency or compunction to make any choice that isn't contingent on being replaced with something better when and if it comes along.

Now I'm not trying to introduce this as a topic. It is merely an example to encourage you to think about how we've been taught and conditioned to doubt and distrust ourselves on what is right in front of us.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjgidAICoQI

5/11/2007 05:22:00 AM  
Blogger Sounder said...

Thanks Silverfox,

But... but if the ‘appeal to authority’ arguments don’t work anymore.... well the whole world is going to fall apart! I mean...I mean, if us smart people don’t tell everyone what and how to think, people might do anything.

This mind fart was produced after reading PP’s Hosanna Church update on the DB. Read the Paul Ingram link provided by biaothanatoi. The Facade of Scientific Documentation.. indeed

5/11/2007 07:47:00 AM  
Blogger Belliosto said...

To: shrubageddon

The sanguine side of my temperament allows quirkiness which I consider to be humorous. Others may not deem it so. At the We Have A Situation post I released my inhibitions describing the history of my name. This came from a dimension in my mind linked to story telling. Wherever that dimension is. If an apology is appropriate I am sorry. I was not seeking to offend in any way.

From: Belliosto

5/11/2007 11:48:00 AM  
Blogger Mark said...

"Well I just read
that organic farmers are not having
major bee colony die offs."


Everything you wanted to know about honeybee dieoff though were afraid to ask, with ongoing comments and additions at that link.

Yes, quoting the most recent update to that thread, an excerpt from a GNN.tv article with my comments first:

Only the 'proletarian honeybees' are dying: place-based organic honeybees are doing fine throughout this CCD, at least so far.

So since organic bees are fine, it's something exclusive to do with the human social organization of the commercial beekeeing industry as a concept--since in the below article: industrial scaled, fatted up (literally, see how), placeless, polluted, antibiotic laden honeybees seem (at least right now) to be the only honeybee colonies that are dying out. This clenches the 'supply versus demand' model of the politics of commodities once more, as noted in previous posts.

Even though this recent article ignores GMOs issues, microwave radiation research on confusing the honeybees homing capacities, and HAARP issues (perhaps), though it comes down on the same blame--a conceptual model of forcing bees to be supply-side only, to be industrial pesticide placeless honeybees, which may have become its own worst enemy and without solutions, since "organic honeybees" are fine.

The clencher quote from that article:

Another perspective

Sharon Labchuk is a longtime environmental activist and part-time organic beekeeper from Prince Edward Island. She has twice run for a seat in Ottawa’s House of Commons, making strong showings around 5% for Canada’s fledgling Green Party. She is also leader of the provincial wing of her party. In a widely circulated email, she wrote:

I’m on an organic beekeeping list of about 1,000 people, mostly Americans, and no one in the organic beekeeping world, including commercial beekeepers, is reporting colony collapse on this list. The problem with the big commercial guys is that they put pesticides in their hives to fumigate for varroa mites, and they feed antibiotics to the bees. They also haul the hives by truck all over the place to make more money with pollination services, which stresses the colonies. (13)

Her email recommends a visit to the Bush Bees Web site at bushfarms.com. Here, Michael Bush felt compelled to put a message to the beekeeping world right on the top page:

Most of us beekeepers are fighting with the Varroa mites. I’m happy to say my biggest problems are things like trying to get nucs through the winter and coming up with hives that won’t hurt my back from lifting or better ways to feed the bees.

This change from fighting the mites is mostly because I’ve gone to natural sized cells. In case you weren’t aware, and I wasn’t for a long time, the foundation in common usage results in much larger bees than what you would find in a natural hive. I’ve measured sections of natural worker brood comb that are 4.6mm in diameter. …What most people use for worker brood is foundation that is 5.4mm in diameter. If you translate that into three dimensions instead of one, it produces a bee that is about half as large again as is natural. By letting the bees build natural sized cells, I have virtually eliminated my Varroa and Tracheal mite problems. One cause of this is shorter capping times by one day, and shorter post-capping times by one day. This means less Varroa get into the cells, and less Varroa reproduce in the cells. (14)

Who should be surprised that the major media reports forget to tell us that the dying bees are actually hyper-bred varieties that we coax into a larger than normal body size? It sounds just like the beef industry.

And, have we here a solution to the vanishing bee problem? Is it one that the CCD Working Group, or indeed, the [supply side industrial biased] scientific world at large, will support? Will media coverage affect government action in dealing with this issue?

These are important questions to ask. It is not an uncommonly held opinion that, although this new pattern of bee colony collapse seems to have struck from out of the blue (which suggests a triggering agent), it is likely that some biological limit in the bees has been crossed. There is no shortage of evidence that we have been fast approaching this limit for some time.

“We’ve been pushing them too hard,” Dr. Peter Kevan, an associate professor of environmental biology at the University of Guelph in Ontario, told the CBC. “And we’re starving them out by feeding them artificially and moving them great distances.” Given the stress commercial bees are under, Kevan suggests CCD might be caused by parasitic mites, or long cold winters, or long wet springs, or pesticides, or genetically modified crops. Maybe it’s all of the above. (24)

...

5/11/2007 01:15:00 PM  
Blogger CuriosityShop said...

A fellow forum friend posted a link to this new post, Jeff, glad to see you back by the way.

Went looking for fairies and Sidhe and just found the following links odd -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strontian
Strontian

Strontian is the main village in Sunart, an area in western Lochaber, Highland, Scotland, on the A861 road. It lies on the north shore of Loch Sunart, close to the head of the loch. In the hills to the north of Strontian was discovered the mineral strontianite, from which the element strontium was first isolated.

The village name in Gaelic, Sròn an t-Sìtheinn, translates as the nose [ie. 'point'] of the fairies, meaning a knoll or low round hill inhabited by the mythological Sìth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strontium
Strontium

References
Strontium (IPA: /ˈstrɒntiəm/) is a chemical element in the periodic table that has the symbol Sr and the atomic number 38. An alkaline earth metal, strontium is a soft silver-white or yellowish metallic element that is highly reactive chemically. The metal turns yellow when exposed to air. It occurs naturally in the minerals celestine and strontianite. The 90Sr isotope is present in radioactive fallout and has a half-life of 28.90 years.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liminal_being
In speculative fiction and, loosely applied, in mythology, a liminal being is a fantasy character that combines two distinct states of simultaneous existence within one physical body. This unique perspective may provide the liminal being with wisdom and the ability to instruct, making them suitable mentors, whilst also making them dangerous and uncanny.

Many beings in fantasy and folklore exist in liminal states impossible in actual beings:

both animal and human in form:
centaurs from classical mythology, among them Chiron, the mentor of Hercules.
both human and spirit by blood:
Merlin, the son of a woman and an incubus[1]
Abe no Seimei, legendarily attributed a human father but a kitsune (fox spirit) mother.
both human and vegetable
The Green Man
both alive and dead
ghosts, among them Tiresias, the dead seer whom Odysseus consulted in the underworld, in Odyssey
both human and machine
In science fiction, liminal beings include cyborgs, such as The Bionic Man
hybrids
hybrids or adoptives torn between their human and alien nature, like Spock from Star Trek

See also
Liminality
Anthropomorphism
Lycanthropy

References
^ Katharine Briggs (1976) An Encyclopedia of Fairies, Hobgoblins, Brownies, Boogies, and Other Supernatural Creatures. New York, Pantheon Books. "Wizards" p.440 ISBN 0-394-73467-X
John Clute and John Grant, The Encyclopedia of Fantasy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liminal
Liminality (from the Latin word līmen, meaning "a threshold") is the quality of the second stage of a ritual in the theories of Arnold van Gennep, Victor Turner, and others. In these theories, a ritual, especially a rite of passage, involves some change to the participants, especially their social status.

Liminality in places
These can range from borders, to no man's lands and disputed territories, to crossroads to perhaps airports or hotels, which people pass through but do not live in. In mythology and religion or esoteric lore this can include such realms as Purgatory or Da'at which as well as signifying liminality some theologians have denied actually existing, making them, in some cases, doubly liminal. "Between-ness" defines these spaces. For a hotel worker (an insider) or a person passing by with disinterest (a total outsider), the hotel would have a very different connotation. To a traveller staying there, the hotel would function as a liminal zone.

Examples in fiction include the Interzone, the Wood between the Worlds and, as mentioned, The Twilight Zone. In the series itself, fittingly, the Twilight Zone does not appear as an actual literal location, making it both a place and not a place at the same time, and therefore also doubly liminal.

Doors, windows, springs, caves, shores, rivers, volcanic calderas, fords, passes, crossroads, bridges, and marshes are all liminal. Oedipus (an adoptee and therefore liminal) met his father at the crossroads and killed him; the bluesman Robert Johnson met the devil at the crossroads, where he is said to have sold his soul. Major transformations occur at crossroads and other liminal places, at least partly because liminality -- being so unstable -- can pave the way for access to esoteric knowledge or understanding of both sides. Liminality is sacred, alluring, and dangerous.

And M Theory and many dimensions in our universe, and we walk in and out of them all day, but sometimes the walls are thin and dimensions mix.

And M Theory? M for Multi? Or?

Greetings to all, and Frances that was an amazing story.

5/11/2007 01:45:00 PM  
Blogger Shrubageddon said...

Belliosto,

No offense taken. If I didn't respond it's not because I was ignoring you....it's more a function of limited time on my part.

So, was the bit you mentioned about accusing your relative of sexual abuse fiction, or non-fiction? If it's non-fiction, then I am truly sorry to hear that....meaning, if you were abused, your family decided to name you disparingly. If it's fiction, then your penchant for dry humor is more prodigious than mine.

I thought you were just being coy....but around here, that's not always easy to discern.

5/11/2007 01:49:00 PM  
Blogger CuriosityShop said...

And PS forgot to mention that all of this reminded a friend of mine to a movie by Quentin Tarentino called The Four Rooms.

And Madonna or M is in one of the rooms conducting a secret "wiccan" ceremony that requires - gasp

sperm.

For you Shrub.

5/11/2007 01:50:00 PM  
Blogger Shrubageddon said...

Thanks for considering me, Moviegirl.

You shouldn't be afraid of sperm....afterall, you were one once upon a time.

5/11/2007 03:09:00 PM  
Blogger Belliosto said...

To: shrub again.

I was being coy. Thank you for the compliment. I appreciate it.

To: all

I have memory and awareness
But I have no shape or form
As a disembodied spirit
I am dead and yet unborn
I have passed into Olympus
As was told in tales of old
To the city of Immortals
Marble white and purest gold.

Cygnus X-1 Book II Hemispheres

Medusa in the hand of Perseus, Cetus the sea beast, Draco, Sagittarius, Pegasus the winged horse, Hydra the serpent, Centaurus the Centaur, are all characters taken from the ancient constellations in the heavens. Jason and the Argonauts, and Sinbad movies are examples of the astral bodies portrayed as earthbound. The Sphinx in Egypt is understood as representing the book written in the heavens. Virgo being the first chapter of this book and Leo being the last. The woman's head and bust with a body of a lion. These characters are a constant reminder of the global influence of the constellations.

If the Babylonian civilization had put them in the sky, the Egyptians would have proclaimed that fact with glee. They did not. So who put them up there?

By the way the definition of spermophile taken from Webster's Seventh New Collegiate Dictionary is: any of various burrowing rodents (as of the genus Citellus) that are related to the squirrels and live in colonies esp. in open areas, often damage crops, and include vectors of plague

5/11/2007 04:08:00 PM  
Blogger Frances said...

Liminality...what an excellent word, thank you Curiosityshop, for the introduction. This term not only describes many aspects of the unusual experience I have related about, but aptly describes how I have felt during much of my life, betwixt and between. Using 'liminality' as a lens with which to view my story has revealed much that was previously hidden. Finally there is some movement taking place, between the symbols and feelings and metaphors and me and my understanding.
There is more I want to write about but many of my thoughts are only just forming and the picture keeps expanding. I love language.

Silverfox thanks for the link to the growing earth video. If you havent already seen it 'Thunderbolts of the Gods' is an excellent documentary about our electromagnetic universe. I highly reccomend it.
http://novakeo.com/?p=843

5/12/2007 06:59:00 AM  
Blogger Mark said...

The "Dr. Stephen Jones" version of the U.S. architectural community has just stepped forward, a man named Richard Gage.

VIDEO: Proof of Controlled Demolition with Richard Gage, part 3 Questions & Answers. April 20, 2007

Architect, Richard Gage explores the flawed conclusions of the 911 Commission report and the conclusions of NIST, in this new presentation on evidence supporting controlled demolition for World Trade 1, 2 and 7.'

It says it was filmed in conjunction with the Project Censored group out of Sonoma State University--who I know personally from my experience with them years ago adamantly refused to touch 9-11 with a ten foot poll (or pole) despite it being the most underreported and misreported news event ever which is what they like to claim they concentrate on, instead of equally ignore in the 9-11 case. However, seems they recently changed their mind.

http://911blogger.com/node/8094

5/12/2007 12:42:00 PM  
Blogger Cailida said...

The idea of faeries, centaurs, and all those things ethereal is not a new concept. The mythology of ancient Ireland, Scotland and England is very old. Not to enter the religious realm here, so i'll dance along the cliffs for a moment - paganism reaches deeply into these "myths" as certain dieties were quite involved with said beings. Morrigan, the dark Goddess of death and rebirth, for example, was claimed to be, along with all her other attributes, a Queen of the Fae.

I would not link such things with satanism or dark cultist antics.
Nor does this topic, IMHO, coincide with government conspiricies - on the contrary, this ethereal world is quite distant from the mundane one that we know and worry with today.

Nor do I think the elite would have any sway at all in 'this' world. This is a world, a sensation, and a realm that rules itself.

If anyone has ever heard of "Otherkin"...

Instantaneously blown off by skeptical eyes as a group of "attention seeking children who can't let go of their D&D dice and live in a fantasy world to avoid the harshness of this wonderfully mundane one"...there is a lot more to this then what meets the eye. From personal experiences, I can tell you that it isn't just all make-believe and fantasy.
http://www.otherkin.net/articles/what.html
If your prone to accepting the possibility of different dimensions, then your mind is open to any possibility. True enough, limiting ourselves as human beings to a solid matter probability distorts and limits our perceptions greatly. It allows us to be easily malable, and the times have turned such "myths" into a fond smile bred up by "those crazy Irish."

Now we all know there is some truth to all mythology. And ancient Ireland held a mystical enchantment to it's forested hills and grassy knolls, and still does to this day.

5/13/2007 12:20:00 PM  
Blogger Joe said...

I read about a guy that is a Zen master. He has lots of chi-energy and very strong focus and mind-control. He travels to Brazil to visit a shaman. He goes on these drug induced journey's. He said he has been in contact with an entity known as "The Other" and 2007 is a turning point for mankind. I find this extremely interesting. Comments?

5/13/2007 03:02:00 PM  
Blogger Belliosto said...

SHORT PEOPLE
Randy Newman

Short People got no reason
Short People got no reason
Short People got no reason
To live

They got little hands
And little eyes
And they walk around
Tellin' great big lies
They got little noses
And tiny little teeth
They wear platform shoes
On their nasty little feet

Che Mah born in China. 28 inches. 40 pounds.

Nelson De La Rosa born in Dominican Republic. 21.25 inches.

14 year old Khagendra Thapa Magar born in Nepal. 20 inches. 10 pounds. 1 pound 5 ounces at birth.

Gul Mohammed born in New Delhi. 22.5 inches. 37 1/2 pounds.

Younis Edwan born in Jordan. 25.5 inches.

So I went to the doctor
See what he could give me
He said "Son, son you've gone too far
'Cause smoking and trippin' is all that you do."

5/13/2007 06:18:00 PM  
Blogger C4ISR said...

Joe said...

I read about a guy that is a Zen master. He has lots of chi-energy and very strong focus and mind-control. He travels to Brazil to visit a shaman. He goes on these drug induced journey's. He said he has been in contact with an entity known as "The Other" and 2007 is a turning point for mankind. I find this extremely interesting. Comments?
5/13/2007 03:02:00 PM



Since no links to any further info are provided, I will have to call bullshit on the basis of what we have.

First, Zen masters are people who have received inka (inka shomei) from a recognized master in an authentic transmitted line of orthodox (Rinzai or Soto) Zen.

There are damn few real Zen masters in the world, and AFAIK none have traveled to Brazil to take part in entheogen experiments. And, more importantly, if one had done so, neither you or I would know about it because Zen masters don't go around talking about such things.

Moreover, if a Zen master had received a communicated message from a non-human entity, he would dismiss it -- properly -- as an illusion. Extremely bizarre experiences are known to happen in the course of Zen training and every Zen monk knows to just let it pass.

5/13/2007 06:27:00 PM  
Blogger Mark said...

"I read about a guy that is a Zen master. He has lots of chi-energy and very strong focus and mind-control. He travels to Brazil to visit a shaman. He goes on these drug induced journey's. He said he has been in contact with an entity known as "The Other" and 2007 is a turning point for mankind. I find this extremely interesting. Comments?"
5/13/2007 03:02:00 PM


2007? I though it was 2012? He says "they" are coming back en masse by 2012, "whether governments want them or not" in files he saw. The anonymous Mr. X, who claims to be an ex-file clerk with a security clearance, was in charge of sorting out all the alien/UFO 'memorabilia' and records. He has some interesting things to say, interesting because they only correlate with many other things.

"Project Camelot" has lots of interesting interview videos, for the parapolitically inclined.

Project Camelot interviews "Mr X"
Project Camelot - 20 min - Oct 19, 2006
... A video interview with "Mr X", a former UFO archivist Landers, California, May 2006 Shot, edited and directed by Kerry Lynn Cassidy "Mr X", ...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5633785688265000034

"Mr X", as he has come to be known, came forward quite unexpectedly in December 2005, posting a message to Bill Ryan on the Serpo website contact page. His story was unusual and important. He claimed that, back in the 1980s, he was employed by a Californian defense contractor as an archivist.

Working long hours in a locked vault, he opened large mail bags full of photos, videotapes, alien artifacts, and volumes of top secret eyes-only documents that told the story behind Roswell, alien visitation and the government's careful handling of what was documented evidence of reverse engineering of alien craft.

Softly spoken, polite and truthful to a fault in all appearances, Mr X was hard to ignore and impossible to disregard as anything but what he seemed to be: a hard working believer in the ET presence and courageous crusader on behalf of disclosure. He has chosen to put himself and his family on the line in coming forward. We salute him and applaud his valor.

E-mail Kerry Cassidy or Bill Ryan at support@projectcamelot.org.

5/13/2007 07:48:00 PM  
Blogger Joe said...

Thank's for the reply.

5/13/2007 07:53:00 PM  
Blogger Joe said...

OK, let us assume I was wrong about the guy being a Zen master. He is very intelligent, wealthy and has extremely high chi-levels. He has taken these trips in Brazil to expand into a higher conscience level. He has connected with "The Other" and brings back this message: 2007 is a turning point for mankind.

Comments?

5/13/2007 08:31:00 PM  
Blogger project_falcon said...

Mark,

I saw Richard Gage give a similar presentation (shorter) at the Berkeley City College symposium "Deconstructing Deceit: 9/11, the Media, and Misinformation"
the day after the Sonoma State presentation on 4/21/07. To see the entire Sonoma State presentation given, both parts 1 and parts 2, go to:

http://www.brightpathvideo.com/

Richard's group is putting up a new website which is supposed to be open in May called: www.ae911truth.org, "Architects & Engineers for 911 Truth" but has not opened up yet.

Richard spoke and went through a power point presentation showing how all 3 buildings that collapsed on 9/11 came down from demolition charges. As he went through all the characteristics of a building being demolitioned, it became very obvious that these buildings came down that way. He said he first got interested in the whole topic of 9/11 after listening to one of the programs on "Guns and Butter". He formed an organization called Architects and Engineers for 911 truth - www.ae911truth.org .

Bonnie Faulkner hosts the "Guns and Butter" show on KPFA ( 94.1 FM) on Wednesdays from 1 to 2 PM. If you ever want to hear more about 9/11, her show is the one that most consistently focuses on this topic. You can hear previous shows:
go to: www.kpfa.org
click on: "Schedule" at the top of the page,
scroll down to the 1 - 2 PM (PST)area, then click on "Guns & Butter" in the Wednesday column.
This brings you to a page that lists the most recent shows. And, at the bottom of the page is a calendar. By clicking on prior months, you can pull up the archives and get lists of older programs. If you have a sound card in your computer and speakers, you can listen to any of the old shows of "Guns and Butter"! This gives you a whole library of excellent talks on 9/11, stolen elections, the economics of imperialism, etc.

Jim Hoffman does the 911research.com website which provides a ground breaking, scholarly & authoritative review of the WTC Twin Towers "Collapse".

Jim spoke after Richard and talked about propaganda and controlling how people think about and understand various events in US history. He showed in detail how the major news stations reported too much in the immediate minutes and hours after 9/11 - about hearing explosions and buildings appearing to fall like demolitioned buildings - but within hours were all talking about how the buildings "collapsed". It was very interesting.

Please note that personally I wouldn't be surprised if the recent much publicized collapse one week later on April 29th due to an overturned gasoline tanker carrying 8,600 gallons of gas that resulte in the collapse of a portion of the Oakland Freeway connector that connects SF to downtown Oakland/Walnut Creek was deliberately done as a warning to anyone who makes a stand for truth. This group of AIA architects are based mainly in the San Francisco East Bay (Oakland) and I have this horrible gut feeling that someone in the BlackOps department connected with the 9/11 crap deliberately had the fuel tanker driver overturn his tanker--for him to have escaped with only 2nd degree burns and then walk 1.5 miles to get help doesn't quite add up. My bet is that the driver got paid off to overturn the tanker or the company, Sabek Transportation, that employed him that sounds as if it has some mob connections and will never ever have to work a day in his life:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/04/30/MNGBEPI1371.DTL&hw=mosqueda&sn=001&sc=1000

this is just a wild guess but my guess is that TPTB hate Oakland and would nuke it in a second.

the local TV news programs that covered this story kept saying over and over how the steel beams melted and collapsed just like the WTC buildings did in 9/11. it was kind of weird how they kept linking 9/11 WTC buildings' "steel melting" with this local disaster right in the backyard of the 9/11 Truth movement, Oakland, California.

The fact that this tanker crashed just one week after the Berkeley 9/11 lecture is significant and not just to be easily passed off as another mere coincidence.

5/13/2007 11:42:00 PM  
Blogger Mark said...

Thanks Falcon. Interesting geographic connections with that 9-11 truth talk and another major organization getting started dealing with architects, and that unexplainable 'gasoline truck toppling to melt steel' (sic) soon after in the same area.

Since we live in such a Baudrillardian world, it hardly shocks me to contemplate something like what you outlined might be done, i.e., simply to generate a media clip. Simply stage an event to fill the holes in the official 9-11 lie about the Towers by a strange comparison, to 'show' a comparison to how 'gasoline melts steel.' Another intimation I have about that, was that that freeway 'accident' was a spoiled state terror event in some way. After all it occurred at the lowest possible traffic time in the typically most conjested freeway interchange area. Gasoline won't melt steel. Have you seen those pictures? I'd venture something else was involved and this is just a half story in the media. The police and firemen in that story say that NOTHING is left of the truck at all. NOTHING. Show me another example of that.

Bizarrely, the identical thing happened in Florida, though it was a "three level freeway catastrophe at night" instead of just a two level one at night in California. It occurred in Florida exactly one month (to the day) before the California one, though with an added bit:

On March 28th [instead of April 28/29th for California] an oil tanker crash closed an entire section Interstate 375 in St Petersburg, Florida. The section continues to remain closed undergoing repairs. Several people who lived in the neighborhood next to the overpass reported seeing a man with a shotgun on the overpass. Full article at http://www.sptimes.com/2007/webspecials07/graphics/375-rebuild/

Tampa where this occurred, is pretty 9-11 related, according to some whistleblowers:

Title: WHISTLEBLOWER! Pre-911 war games hit WTC, White House, Sears Tower, Pentagon with hijacks
Author: repost of Lauro "LJ" Chavez
Date: 2006.09.24 02:40
Description: "I feel that I should speak my mind and Ill tell you some things that I have not told many people at all. From 1995 till 2002 I was a Sergeant in the United States Army. Not only this, but I was stationed at United States Central Command, which is located at MacDill AFB in Tampa Florida. I was on active duty when 9-11 happened. In the days prior to the tragedies, we were involved in many exercises. Some of these exercises included the scenarios of hijacked planes crashing into, our building the world trade center, the White House, Sears Tower, and the Pentagon. These drills or exercises as we called them, where classified Top Secret. Having a Top Secret rated clearance I was dumbfounded that they would ever push a training exercise above the level of Secret."

Back in Tampa, what was the shotgun man for on the freeway? Discouraging real witnesses? Just a police officer? The unvoiced claim from picture captions implies "all this gasoline fire melted steel" as well, which I am sure will be news to architects.

(I don't know the source of the article for that shotgun issue, though it was mentioned as a comment here.)

5/14/2007 12:29:00 AM  
Blogger Sounder said...

Thanks Francis and Mark.

Examples of things that government will do to achieve objectives. Sad that my countrymen do not have the tools or intellect to see that these things go on. Still more betrayal of the integrity of our nation, the media and international institutions.

Via Rense, if the link does not work.

http://heyetnet.org/en/content/view/490/27/

Most people cannot process these elements of truth, and unfortunatly it is not going to ‘go viral’ until we have better frameworks for understanding.

5/14/2007 07:02:00 AM  
Blogger Frances said...

Gas doesnt melt steel. It seems not even over four thousand tons of ammonium perchlorate will melt steel. Ammonium perchlorate is what is used to boost rocket fuel and is highly unstable and flammable.
http://tinyurl.com/2vlx99

5/14/2007 07:50:00 AM  
Blogger Frances said...

Sounder: my story has nothing to do with the government.

5/14/2007 07:54:00 AM  
Blogger Shrubageddon said...

Sounder: my story has nothing to do with the government.

At least not to your knowledge......but as Jeff intimates.....fairies could be something other than the Supernatural/Spiritual....it could be Shenanigans by Quasi-Governmental, Nefarious Organizations playing mind games with some of us...those who are susceptible.

Note that Orz finds the conversation surrounding Fairies and Leprechauns much more interesting than CD and Moon Hoaxes. How does that not surprise me....but man, oh man, for a guy who doesn't find the latter interesting, he's sure active in the discussion. When I'm not interested in a topic, I just ignore it and go on to the next.....but I guess I'm weird that way, huh?

5/14/2007 09:15:00 AM  
Blogger Frances said...

"it could be Shenanigans by Quasi-Governmental, Nefarious Organizations playing mind games with some of us...those who are susceptible."
Anything is possible I supppose. It is my understanding that what makes a person 'susceptible' to these 'nefarious forces' is fear, anger, depression and other negative emotions/mindstates. This is what attracts and sustains them. It is what they feed on.
I am not sure that what I encountered was related to any secret government program, though I believe such programs do exist. I am thinking this entity is from old world europe and has some history with my mothers side of the family. Possibly a harbinger of death although I cannnot find any reference that visually fits with what I saw.
Because of the liminal quality of these experiences symbolism and metaphor are commonally used to decode them into conscious memory. So we have a highly personal and archtypal foreign language used to describe and decipher a highly unusual and socially unacceptable experience. Add to that ones level of understanding of self and reality. Just about any resulting theory is possible.

5/14/2007 10:12:00 AM  
Blogger CuriosityShop said...

Very good, Frances. Only those susceptible ones....... in my opinion those are the ones that believe everything works the way those in charge say it does.

I too am in love with language, and words. Take that word Believe.

Did you ever notice what's hidden right inside of it
BeLIEve. Now that's funny isn't it! Wonder what coinkinky dinky things that does to our subconscious?

All is not what it appears to be in this world or dimension and all is not what most would commonly accept. There is much going on that passes totally unobserved.

The otherworld of the Celts has various names, such as Avalon, Tir na nog ( Land of Youth ) and Plain of Delight. Examination of the stories makes it clear that this realm would have to exist in a higher dimension. To reach it, one must go to the right place in a three-dimensional space, and then one must travel in a mystical fashion that we do not understand. We can speak of this as an extra dimension of travel in to the three we are familiar with.

Since the other world can be reached by mystical travel from this world, we can speak of it as a parallel reality. This idea can be understood by imagining jumping back and forth between two parallel planes which are close together. The planes represent the parallel realities, and the jumping corresponds to the higher-dimensional travel.
http://www.holloworbs.com/underground_abductions.htm


And now only the few cuckoos out there (like myself) would even notice or put the two together of this going on in this dimension

Re: Residents Anxious to Return to Avalon
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-evacuees12may12,0,37978.story?coll=la-home-local
Residents Anxious to Return to Avalon

Aren’t we all ------


http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0099073/
Avalon

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0099073/trailers-screenplay-E12271-10-2
Avalon trailer

Now is that just another coinky dink, means nothing?

Silly, silly girl.

Or more proof that all is not at what first appears, perhaps we are all living in a giant hologram and slowly becoming conscious and aware of that.

Like this Star Trek episode
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirit_Folk

And for Pete's sake why do I have to type in those stupid letters three times before I can post on here? Am I doing something wrong?

5/14/2007 11:51:00 AM  
Blogger Shrubageddon said...

Frances....sorry for the confusion. You're right, in your case, it's not very plausible it's a nefarious, quasi-governmental organization....but I believe it is plausible and possible in the general case of Fairies and Leprechauns....just one of many possibilities.

As to your comments, MovieGirl, your inference of susceptible was not what I implied. My implication was that if it were a concerted effort on the part of nefarious, quasi-governmental orgs to mess with our minds, and perpetuate myth as reality, why would they do so? Social Control comes to mind. Well, the majority of the masses are easily controlled by other more rote and mundane mechanisms, but there is a certain element, such as the majority of folks who post here, who must be controlled in other ways. Folks who entertain the notion of other realities are highly vulnerable and susceptible to misdirection in its many manifest forms. So, the susceptible comment was more a compliment and warning than an insult, as you appeared to have received it. Of course, that's nothing new with you. You misperceive a great deal of what I say....but that's your dilemna, I suppose.....overcoming your insecurities and biased judgements.

5/14/2007 12:14:00 PM  
Blogger just_another_dick said...

More liminal beings:

http://www.forteantimes.com/articles/140_voodoo.shtml

"Beyond the arid flatlands, beyond the swamps and the spectral forests of moss and fern, high up in the smoky foothills we come after a day's rough ride on precipitous, half flooded roads that were at times no better than crude tracks, to the tiny village of Villebonheur.

Thousands of pilgrims have flocked to this area for the feast of the virgin, tying up its streets in an insane traffic jam. The Madonna is closely associated with the concept of luck and thus great many concessions have sprung up offering roulette wheels and other games of chance for the pilgrims to try themselves against.

Their excited faces huddle around the gaslit stalls, swimming in and out of the tropical darkness like figures in an El Greco canvas, underscored all the while by the wavelike rhythms of the drum tent where an ageing Voudou man in the last stages of his struggle against the AIDS virus sits propped up before the peristyle, the column representing the last link between heaven and earth, belting out one extraordinary song after another, a bevy of sultry backing singers in canary yellow picking up the choruses.
Even here, despite the use of drum machines, people were being gripped by the spirit left, right and centre, flying into shivering trance dances or simply dropping like flies.

When they start jamming like this it can go on for days or even weeks. You can feel its rhythms in your diaphragm, creeping up through the soles of ones feet, running like a pulse through ones blood and even if you can't go with it you certainly cannot ignore it.

July 17th - Saut d'Eau

On July 16, 1843 and then again on the same day in 1881 the virgin Mary appeared on the top of a palm tree at the base of the falls where the tepid water of the La Tombe river plunge into a misty cauldron long held sacred to the goddess Ezili, to Ayida Wedo the rainbow and to Damballah the serpent, the lord of the air and the father of the falling waters whose seven thousand coils hold the earth in place.

When the apparition appeared again during the first American occupation in 1910 the marines are said to have opened fire upon it. The brilliant light is reputed to have danced from tree to tree, finally metamorphosing into a dove as the last palm was felled, lingering in the vicinity of Ville Bonheur for a few days before taking off in the direction of the falls. The marines involved in the incident are said to have either died prematurely or lost their minds, allegedly wandering the forest for days before being found.

This particular feast day get off to a rather bad start when Benedict discovers that a tarantula has crawled into one of his boots during the night. By the time we hit he street the majority of the pilgrims are already crowding to take mass in the church while black garbed riot police move in, waving snub-nosed machine pistols indiscriminately in people's faces, trying in vain to restore order.

Large numbers of beggars throng about the church steps in the hope of receiving alms from the pilgrims. Everyone here has come to ask for something, not just the beggars.

Many people are weeping openly, photographs of loved ones, I.D cards and even passports clutched in their outstretched hands. Some are probably praying for the people in the photographs who might be sick or even dead while others seems to be praying for their green cars so that they can leave Haiti and find work in the states.

The traffic jam is by now so bad that the authorities are forced to cancel the annual procession in which the virgin is meant to be taken out of the church and carried through the streets. Instead we follow the pilgrims, many of them clad in pink and white, the colours of Ezili, on the last leg of their journey, up the mountainside to light candles before an ancient tree associated with Legba, the opener of the way and onwards to the sacred waterfall itself.

The pilgrims gather in the basin beneath the falls, some of them clutching bits of root or wads of mombin leaves brought from herbalists who have set up shop along the trial while others carry wooden chairs, bottles of rum or Florida water and offerings of corn, rice and cassava. Men and women, young and old, strip off their clothes as they clamber toward the falls, adding to the carnivalesque atmosphere by festooning the overhanging mapou trees with their underwear. I clamber with them over the slabs of slippery bedrock that protrude like giant steps from the base of the falls, threading my way past knots of figures bathing, drinking and filling their bottles with the healing water.

Some of them stand with their arms outstretched, invoking the spirits, their prayers lost in the thunder of the falls. Writhing figures begin to fall possessed on all sides of me, dozens at a time collapsing as the water strikes them, their naked, thrashing bodies slithering snakewise across the damp rocks, mounted en masse by Damballah.

There are no drums here, no complex sycopated rhythms to set off the collective trance, only the clear, cold lifeblood of the Goddess falling as a blessing on our upturned faces. A Voudou baptism.

A possessed woman almost crashes right into me, her arms pinwheeling, her eyes screaming tears. Frisner gets hold of her, cradling her protectively and soothing the spirit with the secret words and gestures that are taught to the Voudou initiate for just such a purpose. I climb past them, working my way higher, into roaring hear of the falls. Naked in the presence of the Goddess the cataract takes me into its embrace, bathing my overheated body with drops as hard as bullets.
17th July - Saturday night in Port au Prince

"Do you know who you are?" the possessed woman leans closer to me, her voice becoming a high pitched nasal squeak. I nod slowly, meeting her gaze and it is Gede who stares back at me now, brave Gede in black and purple, the guardian of the graveyard who wears this young woman's face like a mask.

"I been waiting a long time for you…"

We shake hands in the elaborate manner of a formal Voudou introduction, the first of many such introductions that would have to be made if I were to pass through all the stages of initiation to become a houn'gan in my own right.

"Ayi Bobo."
"Ayi Bobo", I repeat touching my hand to my heart.

With Frisner on his way back to New York I have been left in the care of Edelle, a manbo and highly respected Koongo initiate who comes across a bit like Whoopie Goldberg on D.M.T.

"Where did you get this great guy who's already got so much Gede in him?" she asks my interpreter as she flings her arms about me. "He's mine!" I return her embrace and the guardian of the graveyard cracks a lascivious smile. "Are you happy to see me because I'm sure happy to see you?"
"It's a pleasure…"

She raises a bottle of what looks like fermented chilli peppers and pickled rat embryos, drinking a welcoming toast. Then squatting beside me she pushes back her long, purple dress and parts her legs, rubbing the clear, fiery liquid over her hands and genitalia.


"You've got nothing like this in the States. All power and weirding…you and me…" She taps my chest. 'Natural born loup garou…you and me both…"

She tosses me the bottle and steeling myself I take a deep swig. No turning back now. No half measures in Voudou.

The mouthful of fluid impacts like nitro-glycerine in the pit of my stomach and I stagger to my feet, helping her unbutton my shirt, abandoning myself to a ritual that began just after nightfall when Edelle first took me by the hand and lead me to the sacred tree at the bottom of her garden, teaching me to pour the water, to light the candles and say the words, opening the way for the spirits. Her possession followed quite naturally, letting Gede do the rest.

"You will not have to pay for what your forefathers did. You are saved already." She weaves around me, massaging the burning fluid into my skin and I find myself thinking of fly ointment, belladonna and scraps of testimony from mediaeval werewolf trials. Its funny how these things come back to one.

"It is not your skin that burns. You are not white. Your faith will save you. Gede will never allow you to cry. You will be shipwrecked. When you need me all you have to do is light a candle and throw the water on the ground and Gede will save you. Every family has a head and I will make you the head of this travelling society. You are already with the spirits. You will travel far and spread the word. Its time. Time to extend the family. That is why you came here. This world's in a lot of trouble and we're going to have to work hard to keep things together. Gede will help you. I work for all of you. It was your good luck to find me…"

I bow my head as she splashes raw alcohol in my eyes, her face swimming before me as if seen through a milky ring of fire, her eyes blazing like windows on another world. "You are welcomed…"

She tells me that we will have to make a second, more dangerous pilgrimage, this time to the northern part of the island, to a remote mountain in the middle of the rainforest that is considered to be the seat of Ogoun Fera, the warrior, the god of iron. We will have to ride horses and wear red scarves in honour of Ogoun and although the way will be hard the spirits will protect us on the trail so long as I remember to say the words, light the candles and pour the water, once for Marassa, the mysterious twins, once for Legba, the opener of the way and once for all the other Loa who follow afterwards.

Then, the ritual complete, Gede abruptly leaves her, Edelle's exhausted body collapsing like a marionette that's just had its strings cut."

http://www.forteantimes.com/articles/141_faeryrings.shtml

"The perils of straying into a fairy ring terrified rural folk in 17th century England, as evidenced by an incident recorded by the antiquarian John Aubrey (1626–97). Writing in 1663, he tells us that his curate, Mr Hart, was out walking over the local downs one night when, as he approached a known fairy ring, he was surprised to see “a quantity of pygmies, or very small people, dancing round and round, and singing and making all manner of small odd noises.” Seemingly paralysed, Mr Hart could only stand and observe until, eventually, the little folk observed him. They rushed towards him and surrounded him, causing him to fall over. On the ground, the small creatures swarmed all over him, pinching him and making tiny, rapid humming noises. Eventually, they withdrew and, when day broke, Hart discovered himself in the middle of the fairy ring. He was lucky. Fairylore is full of stories of careless trespassers whisked off to fairyland, returning the following day to find some 20 years have elapsed, or forced to dance in the circular revel until some faithful friend comes to the rescue.

Explanations for fairy rings have been as wild and diverse as the mushrooms that actually cause them. Just as fungi grow in all parts of the world, so fairy rings are a worldwide phenomenon and explanations of them occur in most cultures. An early naturalistic explanation put the blame fairly and squarely on the rear ends of cattle. During the winter, cattle are fed with bails of hay and as they gather around these they form a wheel-like arrangement with their heads in the centre. Cows being cows, the natural occurs and, as they feed, they deposit high-quality manure around the perimeter. This manure, so the theory goes, causes the grass on which it falls to be more luxuriant. Of course, this does not account for many rings observed where no cattle or other animals have grazed, eg in woodland.

Shakespeare was aware of many of the folkloric aspects of fairy rings. For example, in The Tempest (Act V, scene i), Prospero declaims:

“You demi-puppets that By moonshine do the green sour ringlets make, Whereof ewe not bites; and you, whose pastime Is to make midnight mushrooms…”."


http://www.forteantimes.com/articles/118_santan.shtml

"As the Christmas season engulfs us, Santa Claus, Father Christmas, and their international counterparts beam at us from every medium, hawking earthly treasures to delight our loved ones.

As we watch this portly figure entice us with baubles, we are witnessing the last remnant of the oldest sacred figure that exists, for Santa's past is full of ancient mysteries, with a depth few imagined. In the Middle Ages he was a Wild Man, a beast-man who jousted with knights in Merrie Olde England and dashed through Germanic streets during Carnival, frightening children and adults alike. In the Sixth Century, he was a beast-god so powerful that Pope Gregory the Great chose him to be Christianity's poster child for evil – the cloven-hoofed, goatish devil figure that persists even today. For millennia before that, he was worshiped as a god whose annual death was a necessity for life on earth itself.

Tracking the elusive Jolly Old Elf's history involved a labyrinthine journey that would make Daedalus proud. The search began with 19th century gift givers in America, Britain, and Germany. These gift givers appeared at end-of-year celebrations, but didn't travel alone; they were accompanied by a predictable entourage, no matter what country they trod. Santa's companions invariably included a Bessy – a man dressed as a woman – and assorted merrymakers dressed in goat or bear skins or wearing goat or bear masks. The other characters varied; usually there was a comic doctor and often an archer. Of course, America's Christmas Man wasn't called Santa at the time; he gained that name in the mid-1800s. First, he was Pelznichol, or Nicholas in Furs; in Nova Scotia he was the Janney; in Trinidad he was Papa Bois; in Great Britain he was Yule until Ben Johnson christened him Father Christmas in his 1616 Christmas Masque. His names were as varied as the communities he both terrorized and blessed.

The Wild Man's motley crew went door-to-door, demanding entry. After the raucous group was welcomed, they acted out an odd play – the leader, who dressed in goat or bear skins, argued with another character or with the woman figure. He was killed, the woman lamented, and the doctor comically resuscitated him, or he spontaneously revived, declaring he wasn't dead after all. Before the troupe left to visit the next house, they demanded gifts. This might sound somewhat familiar; today's Halloween trick-or-treaters carry on a juvenile version of the original visit – going house to house, demanding gifts and treats. In the bygone adult festival, the troupe gave its blessing and shared fruits of the land with the inhabitants, or wreaked havoc and cursed the homes if they weren't well received.

This invasion didn't take place at only at Yuletide; in Germany, Carnival signaled the Wild Man's wild rush into town in the Schembartlauf (run of bearded men). In other countries, the wild run usually ended winter's reign, but no matter what the time of year or what country, there were arresting similarities. In the 18th century, an emerging breed of "folklorists" noted these similarities and began to record these festivals and theorize about their origins. Jacob Grimm made a herculean effort to record Germany's folk customs before they disappeared, and scholars in Great Britain managed to accumulate some of the most extensive collection of local rituals. These rituals encompass a wide range of mumming activities with the ever-present Fool, an offspring of the Wild Man and precursor of Father Christmas."

5/14/2007 02:39:00 PM  
Blogger Sounder said...

I apologize for my rushed and poor post, Francis. I meant to say thank-you Mark and Falcon. I was thinking about posting on the discussion board but posted here in too much of a hurry (and a bit upset by images of techniques for mayhem.) before work. I will be more careful in the future.

That said, I enjoy very much the material on this thread, especially your contribution.

(and i agree there is not likely any govt. element in this example, however the govt. will imitate these borderland effects to get better leverage in certain situations.)

5/14/2007 06:00:00 PM  
Blogger Frances said...

No worries Sounder. This blog is a bit difficult to navigate through, in that indivual comments are not numbered, few page breaks, etc.
I agree that this post makes for interesting reading.
When you say "government", are you refering to the 'elected' body of reps in office in US or Canada? Or are you refering to a particular branch of govt.? Or a secrective covert group of people scattered throughout various world governments at varying levels of command? What leverage?
Just curious. (-:

5/14/2007 06:45:00 PM  
Blogger Joe said...

"The Other" has spoken: 2007 is the turning point.

I have read Mayan Calendar prophecy that collaborates this. We are in a 5th Day Mayan Calendar cycle. Research has overlaid historical events to these 5th Day cycles as follows:

1. Jesus came on the scene resulting in a spirtual revolution.

2. Paper was invented resulting in a knowledge revolution.

3. Radio was invented resulting in a communication revolution.

The botton line is within the next 6 months an event or events will surface that changes the perception and direction of mankind.

History is a vast early warning system.

5/14/2007 08:17:00 PM  
Blogger Belliosto said...

Nefarious, quasi-governmental orgs messing with our minds and perpetuating myth as reality IS about social control. This element of influence guides the majority of the masses. And yes this does make us more vulnerable to authoritarian cultural domination. Propagating reality as myth too.

The myth of The Pied Piper of Hamelin is one of many stories that can take us into a better understanding of this other liminal dimension. In the story the two children who were left behind are physically handicapped. The blind and crippled kids were intentionally left behind by the piper. The rest of the healthy kids were never seen again.

The reason why the two handicapped children are left behind is to showcase the old Shamanic belief, which is the primaeval religion of all mankind, that every disease is caused by an evil spirit which enters the body. In the Book of Adam 34: 8.2 it states: 'You have, therefore, scorned my commandment: I too will scorn you.' And he sent 70 evils upon us, to our eyes, and to our ears and as far as our feet, plagues and portents, treasured in (his) treasuries. The supernatural piper uses his musical instrument to horrifically catch the ruler and villagers off guard. The Nachash is described in Ezekiel 28: 13 as having the workmanship of his tabrets and of his pipes prepared in him in the day that he was created.

Okay. He totally freaked out the villagers with his unique abilities and they refused to pay him for ridding the city of the rats. Because they do not judge him as righteous he pipes out all but the two handicapped children, who according to a very ancient belief system, are this way because of the direct influence of spirit beings. It is the idea of "We did this to you by mingling with you."We see this ancient influence showcased in this story.

It is the sacrifice of the 130 healthy children that makes the story so grim. The sacrifice of humans to appease the gods and continue serving them is also implicated in the story. The killing of the 130 kids also implicates that this is to the benefit of the two unhealthy kids.

The ridding of the lives of the healthy to assist the unhealthy. The sacrifice of the lives of the innocent to help benefit the sick and needy. Healthy babies used as sacrifice in the name of science. These cultural agendas are deemed by many in the world to be righteous. Is this being done by quasi-governmental orgs nefarious? Are there beings ultra-dimensional and super-terrestrial that tie in to this principle of condoning the killing of innocents? And are they mingling with us today?

We wonder what happened to the kids piped out of Hamelin? We have been conditioned to accept this sacrifice as being normal and we're left holding the bag. Why should we think this is normal? The propaganda of taking an innocent person's life to benefit another person could possibly originate from this ultra dimensional realm.

5/14/2007 10:17:00 PM  
Blogger surrender said...

Joe:

I don't know if you ever visited sites such as Blue Star Speaks.com or Godumantary.com which are linked. You will find the Etheral and Ancient Beings communicating the same message About 2007 as a turning point for Humanity.

My comment to you is that you are very interested in this as a possibility so you may have envisioned what that "turning point" will be like. Even when we are shown things from other dimensions and entities, what comes after we realize that a turning point in our existence is a real possibility.

I am interested to know what you may have envisioned as to what that turning point might be and how will you experience it.

There are many who have been shown what is to come. The Truth of Who We are is breaking thru into the consciousness of more and more of us, who are spending time searching for the pieces of the puzzle, for answers, for a way to express the deep outrage that those of us who thrive to live in the Truth, must express.

It is leading us somewhere. 9-11, of course, is the major event that had to happen to get our attention and many have had the veils lifted.

Now the question I ask myself is where and how do I choose to change the way I live my life. KNOWING that every time a man, woman, child, animal, or plantlife that is destroyed by violent destruction of other humans, effects me in a deep and profound way. We are all connected and we know it in the very core of our being.

Maybe, this will be the "Turning Point" in our existence. When there are enough of us choosing compassion and forgiveness, living in balance with each other and the Earth as it was intended.

I live in the country that the voodou ceremonies in the post from Richard described. I have experienced what I call "Surreal Moments" that are beyond words or description. And I have seen what the human spirit can overcome by participating in events that totally alter any perception of reality that you may have had before the experience.

5/15/2007 12:08:00 AM  
Blogger just_another_dick said...

" "The Other" has spoken: 2007 is the turning point.

I have read Mayan Calendar prophecy that collaborates this. We are in a 5th Day Mayan Calendar cycle. Research has overlaid historical events to these 5th Day cycles as follows:

1. Jesus came on the scene resulting in a spirtual revolution.

2. Paper was invented resulting in a knowledge revolution.

3. Radio was invented resulting in a communication revolution.

The botton line is within the next 6 months an event or events will surface that changes the perception and direction of mankind.

History is a vast early warning system."


Do you really believe this Mayan crap?

If you do, I'd imagine you'd be battening down the hatches & going survivalist. Otherwise, what's the point to "predictions" like this.

Is it really hopelessly irrelevant that the ancient Maya failed to predict or avert their own demise, much less anyone elses?

Is the fact that there is only one known Mayan text that makes an explicit prediction for the 2012 date-in which the glyph that says what happens is unreadable-equally as irrelevant?

I think the Mayan prophecy, just like every other prophecy filled religious creed, is little more than a blank screen upon which we project our fears & our hopes. If there is any doomsday coming, a fact that I find no more possible now than 25 years ago or 125 years ago or 1025 years ago, then you can rest assured that its fruition will be carefully nutured along by the gullible....oops, I meant to say faithful.
Sorry.

Having said that I'm going to give a totally unrelated schtick about racism so feel free to scroll on by.

This weekend I spent 2 double shifts working with my African buddy Chris. Since we were alone, I wanted to have a man to man chat about something that recently happened to me.
I have this other friend, he works at a bookstore I frequent, & we've known each other about 8 years. We've chatted about everything from philosophy to politics to comics to Monty Python routines to his divorce, etc., & I thought I knew the guy.
But one day, a few weeks back, I ran into the guy while out shopping. We chatted a bit & then I started to tell him about these 2 cool black guys I met who are from Africa(Chris & Lawrence). As I mention "Africa" he holds up his hands & says, "This isn't going to be one of those 'I love niggers' stories, is it?"

I know that my jaw was entirely slack. For one of the few times in my life I found myself completely & utterly speechless.
After an entirely awkward goodbye, I found myself driving home actually doubting if I heard him really say that, although I know he did.

So, I tell Chris that story, & he kind of chuckles & says, "That's nothing."
He then tells me about walking home in the summertime through a white neighborhood & having folk on their porches & in their driveways start screaming "Nigger," at him. This is in the late 90s fer Christ's sake.

He then tells me 2 stories that completely blew my effing mind.

He said that when he first got to this country he had a friend here who took him to East Liberty. East Liberty is a predominantly black community in Pgh. They went into a bar &, as Chris sat drinking, he noticed other male patrons in the bar becoming increasingly agitated over his presence & accent.
As Chris started on his 3rd beer, a group of black men walked over to him & said, "Listen nigger, you ain't wanted around here. You finish that beer & then you get the fuck out of this bar or we're going to fuck your African ass up."

Chris then told me about a time he was shopping with his wife, also from Zambia. His wife picked out a dress she liked & put it in her cart. It was the last of that size on the rack. As they continued shopping another black woman walked up to their cart & pulled out the dress & started to put it in her cart.
Chris' wife said, "Excuse me, but I'm buying that dress."

The lady looked at her & said, "You people need to go back where you came from."

So much for brotherhood, eh?

By the way, for what it's worth, Chris is a very articulate, funny, & soft-spoken gent who is really fucking hard to dislike on the basis of his personality alone.

It's all fucking crap, isn't it?

All of mans carefully constructed back-slapping aint we just great propaganda
wrapping paper that we wrap everything in, covers little more than a big ol' turd, doesn't it?

At heart, our abstractedly jingoistic & rhetoric laden good will aside, we really do hate each other, don't we?

I think we can also rest assured that, whatever doomsday lies waiting up ahead, we will, on some level, richly deserve it.



"A long time ago before the ice and the snow
There were giants that walked this land
And with each step they took, the mighty mountains shook
And the trees took a knee and the seas rolled in
Then one day they say the sky gave way
And death rained down, it made a terrible sound
There was fire everywhere and nothin' was spared
That walked on the land or flew through the air
And when it all was over
The slate wiped clean with a touch
There God stood and he saw it was good
And He said "ashes to ashes and dust to dust"

Then the sea gave birth and it crawled up on the dirt
And stood up and took a look around
Said "I'm the next big thing and the gift that I bring
Comes directly from God, so there ain't no holdin' me down"
So he crowned himself king
Now no one remembers his name
But the seed that he sowed took the show on the road
There was blood on their hands and a plague on the land
They drew a line in the sand and made their last stand
They said "God made us in his image
And it's in God that we trust"
When asked about the men that had died by their hands
They said "ashes to ashes and dust to dust"

Now, nobody lives forever
Nothin' stands the test of time
Oh, you heard 'em say "never say never"
But it's always best to keep it in mind
That every tower ever built tumbles
No matter how strong, no matter how tall
Someday even great walls will crumble
And every idol ever raised falls
And someday even man's best laid plans
Will lie twisted and covered in rust
When we've done all that we can but it slipped through our hands
And it's ashes to ashes and dust to dust "
Steve Earle

5/15/2007 12:11:00 AM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

Richard,

You missed something in your story about what worthless fucks deserving of Armageddon we are--your reaction to your "friend's" racism, as well as the patience and good cheer of your real friend in the face of even nastier shit. Why is it supposed to be shocking that black Americans would be so vicious toward black Africans? You ever go down South and tell your white brothers your views on race, politics and the mating habits of crackers?

This fear of the Other that allows Michael Crichton to sell so many shitty books and which allows those who pimp it to divide us in our many, many divisions is an irrational fear. You get past the "differences" between us (how deep is an epidermis?) and we share the same psyche, the same physiology, the same sensors, the same DNA: we are brothers. Unfortunately, many of us have succumbed to the ancient propaganda system.

On the bright side of things, many of us are beginning to understand that all conflict is engineered and therefore not the result of some innate defect in human nature. Was your father as open-minded about race as you are? How about your grandfather, or his?

I understand your revulsion, your frustration and your pessimism, but I'll restate my challenge to you all the same: given the choice between attending a barnraising and a lynching, which do you suppose any sane human would choose?

Is it the fault of the insane (by this definition) that there is no such choice, or even that they are insane?

Why blame the Eloi when the Morlocks are just waiting for nightfall?



Also, Belliosto--what's up with this:

The ridding of the lives of the healthy to assist the unhealthy. The sacrifice of the lives of the innocent to help benefit the sick and needy. Healthy babies used as sacrifice in the name of science. These cultural agendas are deemed by many in the world to be righteous.

Please pardon me if I'm misreading this, but are we talking about the need for eugenics, the unfairness of stem cell research, and the horrors of abortion here?

Whose "cultural agendas"?

5/15/2007 01:47:00 AM  
Blogger Belliosto said...

I do not accept the fact that heads of state, the A.M.A., top corporate CEO's, and others of this ilk have our best interest in mind when it comes to using aborted babies for curing our ills in society. The cures lie where the money is most made. The higher the cost for a cure the more likely it will be mainstreamed. And if a cure does indeed work it may have certain side effects that are also harmful. You may know of a lot of research that has already been done and is in the public medical journals concerning cures that are effective for certain maladies. What about the research that is in public medical journals that have been proven effective and are not applied clearly because there is not enough money earned by its application?

I had explained that it is accepted that spiritual beings were blamed for diseases and maladies affecting humankind. The same beings are the ones that cause the malady and offer the cure for it. And with the cure comes sacrifice of innocent lives. And if they are condoned as being righteous then humankind may be rewarded for it. If they who cause the maladies are considered unrighteous with the offering of their cures then we see an increase in human sacrifices anyway. Either way there is an acceptance of the taking of human lives. They do not go away and say we spirit beings inflict too much misery on humans. On the contrary they inflict the misery and offer us the solutions to whereas we make the sacrifices and not them.

The kids disappeared in the Pied Piper of Hamelin story. They are gone and we must get used to it. But the piper still pipes and he may be piping more children away. Why should I support this kind of sacrifice? If he horrifies people with his exceptional abilities, he should be able to understand this and work with the villagers. He need not send the innocent into an unknowable place where they are never seen again. He needs to be held accountable. He took the risk with his exceptional skills and did not earn his money. I do not believe he sees himself as a easy man to accept. I believe that he sees himself as a man who will be rejected by the villagers beforehand and he plots to kill off the innocent.

To answer i cuttlefish:

The cultural agendas of the elite in cohesion for a global management system that enables fewer men to be the world monopolists which has never been seen in human civilization.

I got to stop. I am tired and am going to retire. Maybe I seem simplistic. I am being rather general. Anyway good nite.

5/15/2007 03:56:00 AM  
Blogger just_another_dick said...

IC, I see that you're still sugar coating the turd, eh?

It seems to be what you do.

I suppose it was shocking to me because I don't forcefully insist that I be referred to as a "Cracker-American," & then turn around & spit on crackers.

"All conflict is engineered," eh?

Would this be your method of promoting intelligent design? Y'know, the old "Cain & Abel" schtick? Or is this just another allusion to those wacky "powers that be" who apparently control every aspect of our widdle lives?

If it's the former than I'm down with you IC, cause I definitely believe conflict was wired into our genetic structure.

If it's the later then sorry IC, not buying it.

How is your Morlock spiel any different than white folks blaming black folks or Birchers blaming Jews, etc. There always seems to some excuse, some guilty group, some "other" who needs removing before we get down to be the business of being the sparkly shiny really fucking swell talking monkeys that we know we could be if only those "Ghosties And Ghoulies And Long-legged Beasties And Things That Go Bump In The Night" would just fuck off & leave us alone.

Calling the "lynchers" "insane" gives them a nice moral out.

"Oh me oh my, I'm just a crazy as a bedbug puppet whose strings are Morlock pulled. How can I ever do the right thing?"

I think if you could remove all repercussions, most folk would choose the damn lynching. Way more drama &, most importantly, blood than a boring old barnraising.

By the way IC, I didn't say we were totally fucked, just on some level.

I realize that any allusion to human shitiness just raises your hackles because I know you'd like to believe we're all saints at heart, but I don't share your compulsion.

You could "cull" human population back to just 2 folk, or better yet, make it 3, 1 woman & 2 men,with nary a Morlock in sight, & I give it a year before the rock is raised & the whole sordid human slaughter roulette starts all over again.

But hey, that's me IC, I'm just peddling my stoic tragedy from door to door. No one says that you have to buy it.

5/15/2007 10:50:00 AM  
Blogger Shrubageddon said...

Wow.....I love it when Richard and IC tangle. I have to say, Richard has a very valid and compelling point, and I share his sentiment.

The question is, are all Humans made alike, or are we different based on the various Alien Species that bred with us....meaning some of us are hard-wired pacifists, whereas, others of us are hard-wired to shed blood?

5/15/2007 12:40:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

I do not accept the fact that heads of state, the A.M.A., top corporate CEO's, and others of this ilk have our best interest in mind when it comes to using aborted babies for curing our ills in society. The cures lie where the money is most made. The higher the cost for a cure the more likely it will be mainstreamed.


Belliosto,

I can’t help but agree with everything you say here; in fact, I’d go even further. The AMA/FDA cabal isn’t interested in cures at all—there’s no repeat business in a cure. If we were looking at causation, we wouldn’t necessarily have to go looking to supernatural agents, though. Most of our maladies come about from our environment, including, perhaps especially what we put into our bodies. But here’s the first hurdle: not only is the foundation of the pharmacological “health” industry threatened by health through nutrition, but its partners in the military-industrial complex would also come under uncomfortable scrutiny if we began to ask why we have to produce so vast an array of toxins in order to manufacture our consumer goods. The short answer is that we don’t.

A good friend in the noosphere recently suggested that all technology is ultimately a Faustian bargain (at least in the sense that it represents a bid for power--over the elements, etc--at its core.) My response is simply that this is only true in the technological framework that someone has chosen for us. There is another way, a way that has very little to do with your spirit world (although you are certainly free to interpret it that way—metaphors are handy devices.) In fact, if you follow a short little trail I’m going to outline for you, you’ll see that a whole other world is quite feasible which accomodates both material & spiritual concerns, without the ransoming of captives & sacrifices.

First stop, then, interestingly enough, is a place called (brace yourself) the Ancient Order of Druids in America which tells the story of a young, would-be druid acquiring his vision of this other world while sitting, Buddha-like, under a sacred oak:

Time and again I visited and reclined beneath my adopted tree, pondering and digesting the message of Aurora without realizing it. My earthly path was limited to a concentric circle between labor, meditative speculation, and my abode, but without seeing the whole unified center. But, I felt a gradual change in my perception; a release and subsidence of anger, frustration and depression. I saw others on the same path as I, although without the pause for contemplation and they appeared to be disjointed, fractured and sad, a woebegone existence trapped in a material mechanistic cubicle. The oak tree had imparted a mysterious healing energy on me, and this infused me with a positive spirit to discover why.

He then goes on to talk about how we might realign our world on naturalistic principles, without any bloody sacrifices at all, but instead by simply following Wordsworth’s advice in The Tables Turned:

…Come forth into the light of things,
Let Nature be your teacher.

She has a world of ready wealth,
Our minds and hearts to bless--
Spontaneous wisdom breathed by health,
Truth breathed by cheerfulness.

One impulse from a vernal wood
May teach you more of man,
Of moral evil and of good,
Than all the sages can.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings;
Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:--
We murder to dissect.


Enough of Science and of Art;
Close up those barren leaves;
Come forth, and bring with you a heart
That watches and receives.

In case you’re worried that this all just empty rhetoric & wishful thinking (as Richard seems to find my unwarranted optimism), our druid guide then talks about how we might use the lessons of nature, getting into the methodology of Viktor Schauberger and what he calls:

Consilience and Biophila

There are many who are working within the Gaia hypothesis, inspired and intrigued by its revolutionary proposal. Since 1984 the evolutionary biologist E. O. Wilson of Harvard University has gathered various strands of studies, and brought them together in what he terms consilience in order to explain natural phenomena. Consilience in essence is theoretical ecology and a jumping together of knowledge, facts and theory across a wide range of disciplines such as anthropology, biology, zoology, philosophy, theology to investigate and explain natural laws. Wilson went further with a theory he titled biophilia. This concept holds that because humans have evolved in the natural world, their primary instinctual motives are deeply rooted in an environment of plants, animals and landscape. The gradual transference of the landscape from a natural one to a concrete suburban one has induced symptoms of stress, high blood pressure, muscle tension and other chronic disorders. Humans need the essential "touch of the earth"to be truly healthy.

So, go check out Schauberger, and by all means follow Wilson’s Biophilia links (here and here, for starters) which point toward Mark’s Bioregionalism, btw, as this excerpt indicates:

Biodiversity is the frontier of the future

"Humanity needs a vision of an expanding and unending future. This spiritual craving cannot be satisfied by the colonisation of space. The other planets are inhospitable and immensely expensive to reach. The nearest stars are so far away that voyagers would need thousands of years just to report back. The true frontier for humanity is life on earth, its exploration and the transport of knowledge about it into science, art and practical affairs. Again, the qualities of life that validate the proposition are: 90% or more of species of plants, animals and micro organisms, lack even so much as a scientific name; each of the species is immensely old by human standards and has been wonderfully moulded to its environment. Life around us exceeds in complexity and beauty anything else humanity is ever likely to encounter.

"The manifold ways by which human beings are tied to the remainder of life are very poorly understood, crying for new scientific enquiry and a boldness of aesthetic interpretation.


(Once you’re on this path, you’ll find other examples like this one: Terra Preta: Black is the New Green. All of them are simple, common sense solutions to the manufactured crises we face. If you want to read spiritual significance into them, go for it, but you’ll find no sacrifice here.)




Richard,

I’m surprised at your defensivesness—why would you want to defend this picture you paint? Because you believe it to be true? Because it expresses your frustrations? I sugar-coat nothing, I can assure you. Now, I’ve considered your dark vision on your terms, so please do the same for mine, not with an eye toward proving your case, but simply to discover where the truth lies (which is a very fun combination of words, you’ll have to admit.)

So, the world wars weren’t manufactured conflicts? How about the Cold War? Haven’t we seen the fake Soviet troop estimates, don’t we know what game Gehlen & the CIA were playing? How about Vietnam? What was the propaganda machine doing in that one? Can we think of any reason why those in control (or who aspire to control, if you don’t think they’re there yet) would want a divided populace? That’s the key to my argument, you know. We pay lip service to “divide & conquer,” but how does this play out in our present “arrangement”?

Why do we have these “hot-button” issues, bullshit like flag-burning and gay rights? Are we not supposed to believe that there’s some sort of difference between the Republican & Democratic wings of the Party? What about your issue here, the greatest unspoken, unaddressed social problem in the US: race? Can we possibly imagine why it might serve the interests of those interests to incite hatred & fear along racial lines?

You claim that most folks would choose the lynch mob over my Amish friends' idea of fun, but can you really believe that such a choice happens in some sort of vacuum? Where did all those crackers I insulted get their attitudes?

Look, this all gets back to the same argument we’ve always had here, you & I. Yes, I’m going to bring up Milgram again. Correct me if I’m wrong, but you believe that the infamous study proves that we’re nasty beasties deep down inside, just waiting for the next Lord of the Flies to unleash our evil nature, right? How is it, again, that you refute my assertion that the only thing that this study shows is that our nature is infinitely malleable?

We know that certain groups profit, very grandly, from war, hatred & conflict in general—it’s why we go to war, right? Now, how can we predict what our study group will choose, when they’ve been conditioned, over so many generations, to buy into the hatreds that are so beneficial to the profiteers? I’m not trying to take the responsibility away from the haters, I’m just asking where it comes from. I’m also curious about why you chose not to address my question about whether your dad and all his dads before him shared your tolerance & respect for the black man? If not, how do you account for this sea change? Why wouldn’t you choose the lynch mob, or are you in some way different from those crackers whom you defend from my “slurs”?

Btw, you did read that link which attempts to explain where morality comes from, didn’t you?

Most lastly, and to both of you: you are aware that those PTB (whom one of you describes as very real, while the other sees them as some sort of scapegoat for our inherent inadequacies) are very much interested in promoting the notion that human nature is vile and that among the human populace some inviduals (whether by birth or by "accident") are better than others, right?


Shrub,

We ain't wired for nothing, except to be programmed any way the wind blows.

5/15/2007 01:24:00 PM  
Blogger Shrubageddon said...

Okay....great post, IC. Now I agree with your sentiments without eschewing Richard's...if that's possible...of course that's possible...here at RI...and selected elsewheres.

5/15/2007 02:32:00 PM  
Blogger Joe said...

Let's get some perspective here. The Neandethals survived 70,000 years as a hunter/gather race. Here we are at several hundred years with this so called great existance and about to go bust.

What race had it right? We have become mindless, controlled idiots. We live in a weak, unsustainable veil of industrial society. This will collapse soon and you are on your own.

5/15/2007 07:02:00 PM  
Blogger Shrubageddon said...

Joe, imagine all these hogs without their insulin? It won't be pretty.

5/15/2007 07:43:00 PM  
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