Tuesday, August 21, 2007

Tuesday, August 21

The new and better heart
Guy Maddin's The Heart of the World

Let's not say we're surprised: the long-delayed Hosanna Church ritual abuse/child sex case is falling apart. A victim and a witness have apparently recanted, and another who still asserts that she was abused is not expected to testify because she is only seven years old. Meanwhile, the "more sensational aspects" of the allegations against the accused will be downplayed at trial by both sides. "It is not against the law to worship the devil," said Assistant District Attorney Don Wall. No, it isn't. But if the motive for a crime is unmentionable, the likelihood of justice becomes improbable.

Tony Blair's friend, millionaire banker Nicholas Lethbridge has had a great fall. Formerly of the Saudi International Bank, the World Bank and the investment firm Babcock and Brown, Lethbridge died last week from injuries sustained at his 11th century estate in the south of France. "It is believed he fell after getting up early to make himself a cup of coffee...tragically crashing through the balustrade and down a stairwell." Well, these things happen. And with some frequency within the circles of a certain kind of money.

The creation of "wet artificial life" is expected within three to 10 years. While Mark Bedau, chief operating officer of ProtoLife, concedes there are legitimate concerns of unleashing something that could "run amok," it will still be a "very long time" before that's a problem.

"The guiding spirit of modern science, according to the Faust myth, is a satanic demon.... How seriously do we need to take the idea that our whole society and civilization is under the possession of such a spirit, worshiped through money and power? How much are fallen angels actually guiding and perverting the progress of science and technology? Is a great war between the good and evil angels being acted out on Earth? We hardly know how to think or talk about such possibilities since they are so alien to the official, standard models of Western history."
- Rupert Sheldrake, in Chaos, Creativity, and Cosmic Consciousness


Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

These past threads have all been vibrating on the same frequency--I think Jeff is pushing us in a certain direction, or maybe it's a case of mutual oscillation. In either case, and in response to both Sheldrake's comment on the "battle" between good & evil and the discussion so far from the previous, sequentially linked threads, here's another nickel's worth:

The whole concept that we can "do" anything is silly. Gurdjieff talks about LEARNING HOW THE MACHINE OF MAN OPERATES. Gurdjieff emphasizes that modern man does action based on outside superficial forces, whereas the "mechanical" man does action from the inner energy centers.


Although I don’t disagree with your “solution” necessarily, on the individual level, there are two points to be made about this picture you present. First off, your path is a solitary path, with no social component whatsoever (except as an incidental consequence of withdrawing from what you perceive as “the Matrix.”) Yours is a sort of Buddhist transcendance; the goal is a post-human existence where you’re not really alive anymore in the conventional sense. If that’s what you choose to do, well, you should have that choice. Maybe it’s the ultimate destiny of humankind, an evolution into creatures of pure energy.

However, this idea that there’s nothing else we can “do” and that life is merely the functioning of a vast machine is debatable. Just because the langauge of the universe is mathematical does not mean that existence is mechanical. If, as Wolfram & Rucker (and even poor old Douglas Adams) suggest, the earth is a sort of computer and life a computation, this should not be conflated with our notions of what computers or computations are; the real thing is organic and predates the machinations of the Overlords.

This is where your Mothership’s landing occurred in different locations for you & me. You seem to think that since the Bad Guys have used the Music of the Spheres for their dark purposes, those oscillations cannot be put to a very different use. Why not, exactly? Joseph Feigelson has found a way to incorporate the Platonic Solids as found in Nature into the design of houses which produce more energy & water than they consume. In other words, through design based upon the PKS School, we can create engines or, better yet, eddies of syntropy in a planned wilderness of entropy.

Moreover, for those of us who’d like to live a little before we cross over, there exists a way in which we can build an alternate universe right in the middle of your Dark Machine construct. Mark’s bio-regional framework is notably founded on the geography of watersheds; you don’t have to be some sort of Gaia-worshipping New Age Druid in order to apprehend the vary basic truth that water is the blood of the earth, that the hydrological system is exactly analogous to the human circulatory system. What is perhaps shocking news is that we can restore this dying planet to robust health and in the process--for the first time--build a social structure that empowers instead of imprisons its “subjects.”

We can defeat entropy. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts. The zero-sum game is a scam whose dominion is ending.

Consider this. If we were able to grant every serf real autonomy, in the form of freedom from want—energy, shelter, food, clothing and the opportunity to exercise their divine creativity—then no submission to the Matrix would be either necessary or even possible. You can’t manipulate someone over whom you don’t have any leverage.

Surrender & Shrub are also on to something with this notion of creating alternate financial streams—did you guys know that you can take this even one step further, and that it’s legal? Turns out that you can print your own money and that, within certain constraints, banks have to honor it as legal tender? Turns out that not only has this always been the case, but there is currently an explosion of alternate currency taking place.

You can print money for value produced. This means that if someone helps you build your self-sufficient house, you can pay him in the new purple-backs that your community is printing. He can then pay you in the same funny money for teaching his kids. You then give some out for the vegetables your neighbor produces, he gives them to...etc, etc. Not only that, but the supply of money is only limited by the scope of your activities. At each stage of activity, wealth can be created instead of merely exchanged.

Another syntropy cycle.

So, yeah, we’ll all be passing on eventually, but we might as well try living together once the right way first, just so we can tell the ancestors what it was like. And wouldn't it just feel better to make these emotional cripples we call the "elite" irrelevant & obsolete, instead of the objects of so much emotional investment on our part?

8/21/2007 12:22:00 PM  
Blogger ericswan said...

I suppose the only witnesses to the truth of man predate money and power. Back to the caves, the mounds (no, not the mounds) umm..
Well, he was cast out of heaven a very long time ago.

8/21/2007 12:26:00 PM  
Blogger moddey screbbagh said...

There's so much that is relevant here in the literature within and about the "Faust tradition." A wonderful essay by a former teacher of mine, Harry Levin, called "Science without conscience," comes to mind, but I can't find it online, unfortunately. Early on he muses that the title perhaps should have been "science without consciousness," I remember. It's a commonplace that Leonardo (another Faust figure) invented all sorts of contraptions in his mind that he did not ever build because he thought they would be too dangerous. Few have such a conscience today. As someone who works in the sciences, I am sceptical that we'll have the self restraint not to make some of these things that could prove to be our undoing. Anyway, the essay is highly recommended to those who can find it (I think it is in his book on Christopher Marlowe, called "The Overreacher").

8/21/2007 12:36:00 PM  
Blogger surrender said...


"How much are fallen angels actually guiding and perverting the progress of science and technology? Is a great war between the good and evil angels being acted out on Earth? We hardly know how to think or talk about such possibilities since they are so alien to the official, standard models of Western history."

- Rupert Sheldrake, in Chaos, Creativity, and Cosmic Consciousness


I just read this and it is "out there", but anything is possible?

This from Educate Yourself:


8/21/2007 01:12:00 PM  
Blogger Edo said...

Is it a coincidence that most of these scientists without conscience are extreme atheists and darwinists?

(Newton and Darwin were high level freemasons, a coincidence?)

Hi Jeff,

thank you again for your clarity.

I know exactly what you mean: All to often things happen with people and places ( or clearly don't happen) and then other people make up outrageous and elaborate theories about what happened or didn't happen that have NO basis in the facts.

Then these theories lead a life on their own spawning new theories and thoughts on and on, for which there is NO basis whatsoever.
Sort of like spreading False rumors. (think WMD and Iraq).

It is then as if what did happen doesn't matter anymore for the story continues based upon a lie or an illusion.

8/21/2007 01:15:00 PM  
Blogger Brenda said...

"How seriously do we need to take the idea that our whole society and civilization is under the possession of such a spirit, worshiped through money and power?"

How seriously? Stupid questions need not be taken at all seriously.

How much are fallen angels actually guiding and perverting the progress of science and technology?"

Angels don't exist.

Is a great war between the good and evil angels being acted out on Earth?"


We hardly know how to think or talk about such possibilities since they are so alien to the official, standard models of Western history."

Religious dogma is indeed alien to scientific understanding. This should hardly come as a surprise. This has been another episode of quick answers to stupid fucking questions. Thank you.

8/21/2007 02:15:00 PM  
Blogger surrender said...


Here’s another lie or illusion that will make it easier for the food industry to keep those suffering from eating too much, to keep on eating FOODS that have been introduced to America over the past thirty years that have NO nutrition, but tastes so good you can’t REFUSE. Think back if you are as old as I am; WHEN did Americans begin to get so big and miserable?????
And where? Pray tell did this sneaky little virus come from???

Forbes - 4 hours ago
TUESDAY, Aug. 21 (HealthDay News) -- New research is bolstering the theory that obesity may stem, a least in part, from a common virus -- one that helps create new, heftier fat cells.
The study also reported identification of a specific gene in the virus that appears to be involved in this obesity-promoting effect.
"We’re not saying that a virus is the only cause of obesity, but this study provides stronger evidence that some obesity cases may involve viral infections," said study presenter Magdalena Pasarica of the Pennington Biomedical Research Center. "Not all infected people will develop obesity............."

Once again, thanks to science, we keep geting led to the "feed bag" of alternate realities that keep us "heavy" and lethargic. How can anyone who can't walk because thier bodies have blown up like blimps have any sense of power to change thier lives if they cannot change thier diets??

A slow genocide...........

8/21/2007 02:18:00 PM  
Blogger wwwdotnet said...

Dr. Bombay,

In reply to the previous post, thought everyone must have migrated to this one...yes, what a shame it is having to watch our words. I thought maybe over there it is something you guys are more wary of. Here it does not feel dangerous in any way, yet! Although take a look at this- http://www.guardian.co.uk/military/
Blair has the guiness world record for law making. Cherie gets wet at the sound of a new law, it's not his fault- http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/


call me w, dot, net, whatever is easiest on your tapping fingers...I do not know of any groups, which is why i was curious. I mean I have seen a site I have a vague memory of, that had a sort of updated list, that its right wing audience would read. A sort of hit list of liberal figures. know if it? I cannot remember the name, nor find the link. as for grammar, I is a gud spella, me got an A in englisch .

Onto the subject of this post, it reminded me of a drawing I am currently attempting. It is of a scientist, peering through a microscope, unaware that he is examining his own leg. I think once our scientists, or more of them, realise our (obvious?) connection, that they are part of the fabric that they sew with, then the conscience will surely come?

8/21/2007 03:03:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

Well, it's easy enough to laugh at simple-minded beliefs like "angels," but is the reliance on scientific dogma in the Orthodoxy really that much different? If one looks at these viewpoints as metaphors for the real thing, what difference does it make in the end if the explanation either works or, more importantly helps?

The fact that more than half of our scientists work for the military-industrial complex and "believe in" or at least adhere to a paradigm which tells us that the universe is a dead mechanism of unconnected "parts" is not exactly insignificant in terms of the applications of conventional research.

Is it a coincidence, for example, that so very little work has been done on solar conversion technology when we know that renewable energy is a dead end for those who control both the markets and the funding of the researchers?

Why is Academe so pugnacious in its defense of entropy, anyway? Because the alternative would cause them to rethink their belief system? (Say it ain't so...) And, what is the alternative?

Here's an example of just one that's chockful of quotes from very establishment figures, not that they would probably have approved of having their words put to such blasphemous usage:


Can you change the minds of these "rule makers"? Have you tried to convince any of the writers of anti-cold fusion articles that they made a mistake? One hundred years ago, scientists dealt with an energetic aether. Since about 1905-1915 the accepted scientific dogma has been that there is no aether. Now we call it zero-point energy and over 400 peer-reviewed articles have been published about ZPE (aether by another name). How many scientists accept the idea of ZPE alias aether? So why waste time on trying to change the minds of people who make the rules?

Boxed Insert:

Time wounds all Heals. - T.H. Bell.


A paradigm is an example, a pattern, or a model. The course of science is to discover, measure, suggest models to explain the discovery and the data, recycle and improve the model. If and when the model has excellent explanatory power, and the experiments are replicable, and the model is sold to peers so that it is taught in institutions of higher learning, then it becomes the current paradigm. What current paradigms needs changing? We suggest the following two paradigm changes:

* Nuclear reactions in a metal lattice differ from nuclear reactions in hot plasma physics.

* There is an energetic aether.

There is a difference between a new model (paradigm) based on new scientific discoveries and the acceptance of that paradigm. However, a scientific paradigm is based on scientific facts. A new paradigm for low-energy nuclear reactions is needed. We have many new scientific facts but not, as yet, an adequate model. The experimental data being presented at the second conference on Low- Energy Nuclear Reactions should provide additional data from which a better paradigm can be developed. The existing paradigm DOES NOT SUPPORT THE NEW DISCOVERIES! That is the first step to a paradigm shift. Now we must provide the new model and we must also be intensely involved in selling the concept that the old paradigm no longer has sufficient explanatory power.

Boxed Insert:

True Genius resides in the capacity for evaluating of uncertain, hazardous, and conflicting information. - Winston Churchill.


Consider advice number 3: "Change the rules." We have already established that the old paradigm is outmoded, therefore, the rule makers are now at a strong disadvantage, they know their paradigm is inadequate. In essence, we are close to accomplishing the first strategy. Now we need to explore what rules need to be changed.

Here are some rules to be changed:

* Change "Nuclear reactions in or on a metal lattice must be the same as found in hot-plasma physics," to "Nuclear reactions in or on a metal lattice can be produced at low-energy levels."

* Change "The vacuum is empty and has no energy," to "There is an energetic aether that is a potential source of energy."

* Change "The red shift is caused by an expanding universe," to "The red shift can be explained by an interaction between photons and the aether."

* Change "Any device that produces more output energy than input energy is against the Law of Conservation of Energy," to "A device which produces more output energy than input energy is admissible if the device is transforming available energy from the environment."

* Change "Government employees have the right to classify inventions developed using private funds," to "Government employees shall have the right to classify inventions only if such inventions were produced using government funds."

Boxed Insert:

Every dogma must have its Day. - H.G. Wells

It's time for SOME to go away. - Peter Gluck.

8/21/2007 03:25:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Tin Mole Man in the last post I mentioned the word militia and was labeled as potentially violent. It is not fair to do this to people. In fact it is mean. I agree that violence is not the answer too. Unless you train yourself physically and step into a ring for a hand to hand combat competition like during the Olympic games. Respectfully the giving up of your own life to save another person would be a difficult decision to make. I think most men think going on the offensive defending themselves or others is worth bragging about. But if it has to do with losing your life in the process, well...

The idea that a person disagreeing with everything you say and is willing to fight to the DEATH your right to say it, to me, is tyrannical. Since the individual who is willing to lose his life over your rights has never asked you for the permission to fight to the death for that. If he is willing to fight to the death my right to say something, he is jumping the gun. What he needs to do is ask for permission and the responsibility and security of the relationship is kept intact. I would never give him the permission to do it. No need to fight to the death. Sorry.

Anyway I'm rambling on... I am clearing up the fact that any labeling of Belliosto, that is me, as being too violent is unfair to me and prejudices me when it comes to any kind of productive conversation. I am not offended Tin Mole Man or angry at all with you. I am making sure that the readers simply do not assume that I am this violent guy that has tendencies to terrorize others because I mention certain words or subjects. I am disinterested in these push button mentalities. I may mention cannibalism but that does not make me a cannibal.

8/21/2007 04:17:00 PM  
Blogger tmb said...


So there are no other possible dimensions or beings/forces acting on us not accounted for by "scienctific understanding" er, as "currently" accepted, right? (I understand germs did not "scientifically" exist at one time . . . please get a clue.) The truth is that the "understanding" we are all told is so great is in fact miniscule, and killing the planet, but the brainwash by the scientific "authorities" is total - - as are the phoney areas they wish for the masses to put their belief in, such as what really causes cancer vs. what they say causes it etc (nuclear testing v. second hand smoke, please . . . . one we never hear about the other is a joke and we hear about it constantly).

There is a great deal of archaelogical and other type oddities that do not fit the current "model" of "reality" that are just, well, discarded, if not ridiculed out of existence - - by well paid imbeciles and "intelligence" types with an agenda to preserve the current version of "reality" as well as by Academics at the "publish not perish" world that is the current academic climate that is a total farce . . . the questions here aren't "stupid" and you provide no "answers" just mainline, programmed, accepted "thinking" . . . that's not why people come here . . . Rush L, Carl Sagan (deceased, now acknowledged CIA/Intelligence plant), The National Enquirer (started by a CIA psych warfare expert to cause ridicule and popular disinterest in UFOs - a phenomenom the military believes in regardless of what they might really be in fact i.e. they do exist whatever they are . . .) and all those other controlled "scientific" thought areas can provide you the "answers" you so seem to need to hear and "they" so wish you to believe . . . just ignore everything else that doesn't fit your world view as it bites you on the ass. Have a nice day.

8/21/2007 04:55:00 PM  
Blogger Mark said...

Brenda said:

"Religious dogma is indeed alien to scientific understanding."

The more dogmatic statement is this cocksure one? Not to be interpreted as a promotion of various forms of religious dogma in its place, only to bring so called 'scientific understanding' down into the sawdust with the rest of most other religious dogmas. How many times has 'scientific consensus' changed its dogmas, and still somehow treats itself on the artificial idea that it is "now at last the truth" (each time)?

Besides, in the previous comments, the religious motivations for much empirical research is always the more (scientifically!) demonstratable thing going on. I don't think the whole 'science vs. religion' thing is real anyway, it's just a shell game for the latest ideas of a form of state-science that mystifies state raw power and supply-sided corporate power as much as any Roman Catholic Church ever did.

This is not to hold out that it can indeed be different, though so much in what Cardinal Brenda says above is just a recipe for a cloaked ideology of interests and NOT scientific enterprise. Science is the research and exploration of the unknown, not a form of dogma about the nature of reality that I think you were using it exhibiting above. It's premise is pretty Eurocentrically based on a dogma as well, that humans can intuit the framework of the physical world through empirical analysis. This is one I happen to agree with, though at least I understand that this is an assumption, Brenda, subject to self-revision and not burning of heretics to shore it up.

The people who would have gone into the Roman Catholic Church in Europe centuries ago now go into the Universities and take Economics and Genetic Engineering degrees.

8/21/2007 05:08:00 PM  
Blogger ericswan said...

Eve...just in case you missed it.

Johnny's got his finger on the trigger..


8/21/2007 05:34:00 PM  
Blogger wwwdotnet said...


i just wanted to tell you that you have shared some humorous synchronisity with my internet travels, i was about to post this link -
the source of the writing that you posted... how I know long for a metal studded phallace.

8/21/2007 06:26:00 PM  
Blogger Brenda said...

So there are no other possible dimensions or beings/forces acting on us not accounted for by "scienctific understanding" er, as "currently" accepted, right?

That is more or less correct. Things which cannot exist, like square circles, need not be given a second thought. Things which are utterly unlikely to exist, like a choir of angels, can be given a slight pause... then dismissed for the delusions they are.

The truth is that the "understanding" we are all told is so great is in fact miniscule, and killing the planet

Riiiight, I'm killing the planet because I don't believe in angels.

There is a great deal of archaelogical and other type oddities that do not fit the current "model" of "reality" that are just, well, discarded

They are discarded because they are wrong. They don't check out, they are lies and hoaxes perpetrated on gullible fools. Von Daniken and all his imitators are con men, you are their marks.

The more dogmatic statement is this cocksure one? Not to be interpreted as a promotion of various forms of religious dogma in its place, only to bring so called 'scientific understanding' down into the sawdust with the rest of most other religious dogmas. How many times has 'scientific consensus' changed its dogmas, and still somehow treats itself on the artificial idea that it is "now at last the truth" (each time)?

Science is not a religion. It is the simple human activity of of discovery. You get an idea (hypotheses), then you test it (experiment), lather, rinse and repeat. The body of knowledge that results over time is what we call "science". The institutions that humans have created over time are not science and they can be more or less flawed but that doesn't invalidate what we know to be true.

Science doesn't even deal in Platonic Truth with a capital "T". It deals only with pragmatism or "what works". It is by far one of the most egalitarian and non-hierarchical pursuits there are. Nor is mathematics "the language of Nature". Mathematics is nothing more than a human invented language. It is a tool used to describe nature, nothing more.

You just don't like science because it doesn't promise you a pony (or in most everyone's case here, a unicorn). Science pops bubbles and delusional fantasies like free energy, UFO's, controlled demolition, RFK and the rest of the garbage that passes for "rational" thought here.

8/21/2007 06:28:00 PM  
Blogger wwwdotnet said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

8/21/2007 07:14:00 PM  
Blogger wwwdotnet said...


"Jeremy Narby was a young anthropologist studying the Ashaninca Indians in the Peruvian Amazon when he first took ayahuasca in the mid-1980s. The Indians had told him that ayahuasca was the source of their plant knowledge. They called it "forest television." Narby was interested, though skeptical.

He was less skeptical an hour after drinking the brew, when he found himself surrounded by two huge snakes, fifty-foot boas, who spoke telepathically to him, putting him in his place: "They explain that I am just a human being. I feel my mind crack, and in the fissures, I see the bottomless arrogance of my presuppositions. It is profoundly true that I am just a human being, and, most of the time, I have the impression of understanding everything, whereas here I find myself in a more powerful reality that I do not understand at all and that, in my arrogance, I did not even suspect existed." Later, the shaman tells him the snakes are known as "the mother of ayahuasca."

From "Breaking Open the Head" by Daniel Pinchbeck, citing Jeremy Narby's book "The Cosmic Serpent"

8/21/2007 07:35:00 PM  
Blogger tridentblue said...


I think you are dead on in your assessment. The simple truth we are sensing deep in our symbol driven subconcious is that our old religious worldviews and new scientific advances are incompatible. Its summed up on the public state through the fear of an Iranian a-bomb, controlled by zealots from the middle ages.

It has to be dealt with, and neither science nor religion can continue as is without compromise. But there are strong currents in both trying to stop this from happening, and these forces are hurdling toward an insane future.

We have to cut the crap in religion and science and face the profound mystery the universe with a little humility, then we can start making serious progress toward a livable future.

8/21/2007 07:58:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well Gurdjieff uses "machine" the same way that Westerners have a "mechanical" interpretation of music.

For example Sri Ramana Maharshi states that Mantras as a Method -- i.e. OHM -- are less effective than the logical inference of the I-thought because:

Mantras become Mechanical.

I was reading "Galileo's Daughter" today by David Sobel. Essentially the Pythagorean framework WAS the MECHANICAL framework. For example Kepler was a Pythagorean. Galileo was a "reformed" Pythagorean believing Pythagoras could be corrected. For this reason Galileo did not believe in Kepler's theory that the Moon causes the ocean tides because that seemed too astrological. Yet for Kepler it was part of his Pythagorean belief and Newton picked up on that with the emphasis that Galileo did not really understand true Pythagorean teachings.

So Gurdjieff is using "mechanical" in the Western sense but what Gurdjieff really means is asymmetric harmonics of complimentary opposites.

Music is guided by ratios -- harmonics but MUSIC IS NOT MECHANICAL.

Math and Emotions -- resonate to what - - FORMLESS AWARENESS.

I can assure you that the more a person meditates the less the person is alone. This is the great irony of the "hermit."

In fact I leave me room in order to be "more alone" by not focusing on internal harmonics as much as by resonating with people around me.

Modern society is full of people who do not know themselves and therefore even if they're in a big group those people are more alone -- their true self is isolated psychically and controlled by the Matrix -- than if they were alone in a room.

When a person practices the "small universe" or "microcosmic orbit" -- the 12 harmonic nodes as the scale -- along the outside of the body, i.e. Taoist Yoga while sitting in a chair -- then eventually the spirit leaves the body.

At that point the Self is truly known -- you are NOT YOUR MIND NOR YOUR BODY -- you are pure consciousness.

Light comes from pure consciousness. Life becomes a full mystery.

I just had a drunk homeless Native lady do a lap dance to me while I sat on a chair in a sidewalk cafe. She then sat next to me while I was reading in McDonalds.

We have had several psychic orgasms together. Sorry but as Gurdjieff emphasizes most people have their consciousness focused in the lower half of their body.

A true "machine" is a pervert if they're a male and a slut if they're a female. As per Tantra -- most people now fall into this category -- it's the final dialectic of the commodity fetish that separates the body (earth) from the mind (heaven) as per mass sacrifice ritual.

At any rate I spend most of my day activating other people's energy -- doing healing -- instead of building up my own energy.

As I sit in full-lotus the energy builds up and then shoots from my third eye out of my eyes. This is basically extra life force energy that actually is orgasmic -- especially for females.

The more this interaction occurs the more heat is created in the body and the more intense the climaxes. About 3 climaxes are the limit for public "healings" since otherwise the intensity requires too much spectacle for the recipient of the energy.

For me I've masted the female internal climax -- which is activation of the right-brain vagus nerve. This causes over acidification of the stomach and also transduces the food digestion into the brain. This is why "spiritual" people have to eat a very alkaline diet -- veggies, fruit, nuts -- and not alot of food.

You can always eat a lot but it's a full "brain" digestion process. The food goes to the head -- but the full-lotus just processes the energy and shoots it out of the third eye (if it's directed as such).

Otherwise the energy is stored in the body and opens up the brain channels. The only problem, as I stated, is that the more the inner channels are open the more a person realizes that they were "never" alone!!

To suck up a person's sadness or anger and transform it into bliss is an amazing process.

Also Gurdjieff discusses how full-lotus yoga breathing does not mix well with food -- so that's why I like Gurdjieff because he's very honest about how the alchemical transformations take place in modern society.

The over all trend of society is blatant. Now it's cell phones and lab tops. Next it's microchips -- and how we'll love them!

We have 20 years of freshwater left and look what happened at 9-11 -- our leaders went underground. No one is to be spared -- the only truth is Harmonia (formless awareness as the FEMALE PRINCIPLE -- the cosmic Womb-tomb).

8/21/2007 10:57:00 PM  
Blogger ericswan said...

That's more like it. Is harmonia the same thing that Ouspensky is calling peak experience? Are you always aware of what your third eye is doing to other people and women in particular? Do you think Satan helped write the holy bible?

8/22/2007 12:22:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ouspensky confused people big time. I tore out all the excerpts of "In Search of the Miraculous" that were Ouspensky's so that only Gurdjieff's teachings remain. Gaps in my book are nice to see. Poor Ouspensky. Bennett's books detail how Ouspensky, just as Gurdjieff knew, always lamented his parting.

The moon feeds off the life of Earth, as Gurdjieff teaches. When the life on Earth does not provide psychic food for the Moon then the Moon destroys life on Earth. That is what is happening today. Gurdjieff taught how to understand the "machine" of this psychic feeding process and then to be aware of it's source -- the Absolute stemming from the law of 3.

An excellent book that gives detailed excercises based on the same teaching is "Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality" trans. by Charles Luk.

The Absolute can be accessed through the will power (kidney energy) that is the source of the I-thought. This is the Jing of Taoism turning into Chi (electromagnetic fields) that turns back into formless awareness as the Absolute.

So in terms of music "you" and "I" do not exist. If there is food then this is a lower form of energy. The highest form of energy is emotion -- especially the heart chakra. But the emotion energy comes from the life force energy -- the kidneys.

As Gurdjieff stated the big problem in the West is underactivated sex energy -- not CONSCIOUSLY sublimated. So it turns into perversion as projected subconscious commodity fetish.

The left-brain logic represses the emotions and the life force gets subconsciously projected as anger, sadness, worry, over-excitement, which leds to compulsive shopping, imperialism, Freemasonry, etc.

The pineal gland is the moon energy and the right brain -- through harmonics -- then can activate the whole body so that the life force is converted back to formless awareness.

This means "you" are an instrument played by the Harmony of the Spheres. The sun energy is strongest at 11 to 1 (both day and night) while the Moon energy is strongest 3 days before and 3 days after it is full. Meditation is 10 times stronger during the 3rd day before the full moon.

The pineal gland is automatically (like a machine) activated by the moon energy. The lower tan tien (life force center) is activated by the Day Sun energy (11 to 1 pm). The upper tan tien (consciousness center -- the 3rd eye) is activated by the Night sun energy (11 to 1 am).

Magnetic bliss becomes very strong at these times (automatically) and meditation during this times is twice as effective. The magnetic bliss is always there for those who have achieved a "permanent center of gravity" in the 3rd Eye as Gurdjieff describes. This is a Level 4 person.

This cycle matches with the circadian rhythm studies showing melatonin peaks at 1 a.m. -- the strongest antioxidant by far. N.I.H. held a conference to teach cancer treatment in synch with melatonin circadian cycles.

The blissful euphoria (serotonin turning into melatonin) is our natural state but it arises from formless awareness which is beyond spacetime. Formless awareness is the Absolute -- it cares not -- it is beyond emotion. It is the logical inference of the I-thought that creates an asymmetric resonance of complimentary opposites.

Science is based on symmetry -- not complimentary opposites. So people do not know how to "run their machines" and therefore have extra energy that is wasted and also have emotions that are repressed and accumulate as disease of an electrochemical nature. The full-lotus is worth 4 hours of any other practice but this is only because it is Tetrad harmonics directly. The Small Universe will achieve the same result if practiced more and will enable a person to enter into the full-lotus. Simple tai chi excercises strengthen the Chi of the body so that healing energy can then be extended into other people.

But we have to be careful -- not to pull someone's energy from the top of the head. When we pull away the blockages of the body it's important not to put the hand over the top of the head. Touching is never necessary but even still a person's spirit can be pulled out of their body. I did this once by accident.

Luckily the energy can be reversed by the conscious awareness of the practitioner because of the resonance involved (the results bounce back to make the practitioner even more aware that the Formless Awareness caused the results -- not the intention).

It's similar to the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle where the formless awareness is position and the energy is momentum. Sri Aurobindo makes this analogy and it's accurate because position times momentum does not equal momentum times position (asymmetry is the truth and the reason for the failure of GUTS). So you "go into the emptiness" which then achieves the result of your intention (the sound-current). This happens through transduction of energy.

The more you heal others the more you heal yourself. So if I fast then my healing energy is stronger -- but healing in public can be intense. The healing is actually just the resonance reply to the blocked energy in other people.

So if they have a blockage in their lungs (sadness) or liver (anger) then this gets transformed through my full-lotus back into blissful love energy that then shoots back through the pineal gland to the person who needs the energy.

The cycle of energy is focused through my eyes but that is not necessary because the full-lotus is a vortex that sucks up lower frequency vibrations and then transforms the energy just through the Law of Three. It's not "me" that does any thing -- it's just like playing music but the player is the formless awareness. There is a natural attraction to the magnetic bliss of the full-lotus vortex.

So I may have "intentions" when in fact those are just part of my own healing to go to a deeper level of formless awareness. Logically the deeper level is the source of the Heart Chakra -- called Jnana Yoga, as taught in Brahmin Vedanta. The Jnana is a zombie -- their heart has stopped for over 10 minutes -- yet it restarts and no karma accumulates. Their mind-body is just karma running on "automatically" and appears real meanwhile every thought and breathe "automatically" resonates back to the source of the heart-mind. Only about 6 people on Earth are jnanas at any one time and even the followers of Sri Ramana Maharshi can not fathom that he had to kill himself in order to "cut the knot" to achieve "eternal liberation." I studied all his books at the S. Asian library at the University whereas most of his followers don't take his teachings that seriously. He says very clearly that only after 9 years of solitude did he finally achieve eternal liberation -- beyond all spacetime -- all astral realms -- all powers -- just formless awareness.

The teacher I studied with stated the only power he has not achieved is killing himself. That's a taoist joke! haha. Because this secret healing skill is for the community -- before language was dominant as a tool for spatial control. Moon synchronization is the source of language developed for human law. Humans have lost the connection with this original moon cycle. Professor Chris Knight's forthcoming book "The Human Conspiracy" (2007, in preparation, Yale University Press) is about how humans, but not other primates, rely on digital or binary body language (the conspiratorial head nod).

In fact yoga is analog body language based on protosapien tribal trance transduction that relied on auditory dominance (like orangutans) rather than visual dominance (like chimps). Fruit is the original territorial commodity that created the need for monogamous "consumer units" (gibbons).

In contrast the healing ritual of the Bushmen, going back 80,000 BCE, relies on a circle of women around a circle of men around a fire. The fire heats the belly while the women sing and the men dance. The singing overtones creates ultrasound which also heats the belly. N/um then rises up the belly as intense blissful heat -- ionized electrochemicals. This turns into electromagnetic fields and the ability to go into !Xia -- trance 3rd Eye vision -- to see light spirits that are energy blockages in other people. Then the males go and put the hands on the back and front of the females to suck out the blockages and then the males shoot the spirit-light blockages (the information) back into the darkness so that the dead spirits can feed off this extra energy.

8/22/2007 01:24:00 AM  
Blogger Dr. Bombay said...

Call me naive, but I was under
the impression that everyone lives
in a "metal studded phallace" in
England..Wot? It's just the Royals?

8/22/2007 02:54:00 AM  
Blogger Sounder said...

“How seriously do we need to take the idea that our whole society and civilization is under the possession of such a spirit, worshiped through money and power?”

Maybe I go overboard in embracing this idea, but i saw how oil crunch money went through Chase and greenhorn debt salesmen, as adjustable rate loans to despots in South America. Then the rates went up, and who pays? Well of course, the taxpayers, with the country of origin paying the other half in the form of land ‘donated’ to some land conservancy trust. I’m thinking the Rockefellers hold the deeds. Then that Savings and Loan business, then fake bonds as collateral, neat trick, very popular and on and on. There is no needs for further details, instead I focus on, “What perverse kind of understanding of reality allows for this kind of activity to continue?”

Drew, I think you have an interesting and subtle take on reality. My take on Gurus is less charitable. One useful thing taken from my spiritual searches was the insight meditation concept, or Jnana Yoga. Now my application may be crude because of my bad attitude (toward guru’s), but my examination of the I-thought as the driver of causation has built a beautiful life for my family. Selfish, maybe, but maybe not if the autonomous-I is an illusion of our perspective processing systems.

Back in the day, but after my epiphany I would visit with some gurus and lay out my understanding of things. I asked one guy if my basic outline was ‘correct’, (similar to the material on my blog spot) he said yes it was but that I did not understand why it was so. Fair enough. My boss happens to be this Gurus top student. Twenty-five years of committed meditation has done nothing for his ‘spiritual’ development. Well maybe it’s added to his narcissism and sense of entitlement. (i am not being fair, my boss is better than most and is trying real hard.)

But back to Jeff’s blog topic. This taken from The Reenchantment of the World opened at random after being driven from the computer by bad movie dialogue in the background. Page 89, Morris Berman is the writer.

“...Eliade rightly calls modern science the secular version of the alchemist dream, for latent within the dream is “the pathetic programme” of the industrial societies whose aim is the total transmutation of Nature, it’s transformation into energy. The sacred aspect of the art became, for the dominant culture, ineffective and ultimately meaningless. In other words, the domination of nature always lurked as a possibility within the hermetic tradition, but was not seen as separable from its esoteric framework until the Renaissance. In that eventual separation lay the world veiw of modernity: the technological, or the zweckrational, as a logos.

tmb, wwwdotnet,tridentblue, ggg, Jeff, (sheldrake), IC, Brenda and others, great stuff -Thank-you

Oh yeah, check this out, Ron Paul, an inspiration for people all over the world. I think integrity may be more important than philosophical differences at this point.


8/22/2007 07:42:00 AM  
Blogger Jeff said...

"I think integrity may be more important than philosophical differences at this point."

But I think we have to be careful about setting aside those differences, because dropping the distinctions and then rallying to someone perceived to have integrity has led to populist fascism. I'm not saying Paul = Hitler, for any number of obvious reasons. Just that integrity is also a political commodity, and it has been played frequently as a bridge to the middle and the left from the right, even from the extreme right.

8/22/2007 09:27:00 AM  
Blogger surrender said...

Earlier posts regarding the Militia was equated with violence instead of looking at it as a constitutional right and a possible solution. Here is a quote from the article, but the article in its entirety is worth a read.


Dr. Edwin Vieira, Jr., Ph.D., J.D.
August 16, 2007

Part 2 states:

"If “the Militia of the several States” existed in their proper constitutional form, exercising their proper constitutional powers, most if not all of the fears catalogued at the beginning of this commentary would not be plaguing Americans today. For, in their regular meetings, Militia companies across the country would have investigated what has been going on, what is at stake, who is at fault, and what they should do with respect to all of these matters—each of which is an aspect of “homeland security,” and therefore within the purview of the Militia.

No one should assume that the Militia would resort to violence. Even when fully justifiable, violence is always expensive, typically unpredictable, and usually undesirable—because when violence begins, reason ends; and then anything can happen, and often does. Even in self-defense, personal or political, violence is always the very last resort, to be relied upon only when all else fails. Therefore, for anyone to advocate, condone, or even suggest violence by the Militia would be counterproductive and even puerile.

With respect to remedying the problems cited heretofore, it would also be contraindicated. Sufficient for such situations would be simply a nationwide Militia remonstrance to rogue public officials in the General Government, informing them that:

(i) the course they were pursuing was wrong and dangerous; (ii) in those circumstances they ought to take certain actions and refrain from taking certain others; and (iii) if they refused or failed to heed this advice, immediate consequences (not just consequences at the next election) would follow. Then, if the politicians remained obtuse, obstinate, and obdurate, the Militia would call a day, a week, or more of “Down tools!” No one in the Militia, or in Militiamen’s families, would go to work or perform any other than absolutely necessary humanitarian services (such as medical care, fire-fighting, feeding the homeless, and so on). Inasmuch as tens and tens of millions of adult Americans would be involved, the country would grind to a screeching halt. And not only in private enterprise, either, but also in the public service—for most individuals in public employment, even though exempted from regular Militia duties, would nevertheless remain members of the Militia, or find themselves within some Militiaman’s family, and if not subject to Militia discipline then confronted with the sanction of ostracism by their family members, friends, and neighbors.

If this would not bring rogue public officials and bureaucrats to their senses, and if not to their senses then to their knees, in record time—and nonviolently, too—what would? How could the miscreants stop it? How could they get around it?

Moreover, just the possibility of such actions would deter rogue public officials from setting out on legally questionable courses in the first instance. For they would not want their possibly unconstitutional adventures immediately and effectively challenged."

8/22/2007 11:43:00 AM  
Blogger Mark said...

Thanks for that link on the developing "Ron Paul International" .

It reminds me that I've always thought that most of the real politics of the U.S., like that of ancient Roman Republic, occurs amongst the rural areas it dominates and keeps disenfranchised.

Like the Roman urban core, same with the U.S. republic urban core. We can consider the rest of the rural world and the 300 U.S. military bases overseas amongst people (who would love to vote in U.S. elections and should at this rate) just like the grand majority of people chafing within the military empire of Rome. In the Roman empire, the only political party really was the special interests of the army (the only welfare state Rome as well as the US, ever had). This was combined with a war profittering and financial elite of Senatorial inbred families. They additionally loved mass sports to keep people compliant, in huge stadiums they built everywhere.

At this point, U.S. politics matters more to people outside of the U.S. than those inside it it seems. This is a sad compliment to the seamlessness of the two-party fascism that has created a virtual world through centralized media, political, and economic control. They can still manage to generate the media spectacle that there is a competition is going on between the Democrats or Republicans instead of a collusion. The literal marriage in 1993 between the ex-Clinton campaign manager and the ex-Bush Senior campaign manager should have been enough to wake anyone up, though many prefer their illusions. This is combined with lack of options. Ron Paul may generate a sense of an option that is rarely seen in U.S. politics, though he's still tapdancing within a systemic illusion.

On that illusion: with stolen national elections in 2000 and 2004 and 2006 (assuredly that reduced the Democratic surge to 'manageable' proportions for the neocons (from some data I have seen as well as Palast's estimation)), Ron Paul is doomed by corruption. To think that representative elections will ever occur in the USA anymore on the federal or many state's level is bogus without removing the privatized electioneering networks. It's all an empty electronic virtual vote rigging show now. The two-party fascism will goosestep all over him.

I hope I'm incorrect, though with 2000, 2004, and 2006 under our collective observation, why would 2008 be different simply because of hope?

As for hope, any concern for systemic change should be swayed by other things than a mere singular candidate with principles. More people like him are required to make a difference. However with only one of them, he only serves to legitimate via distraction the ongoing corrupt system on the federal level elections.

As much as I respect Ron Paul, another point is in line with Jeff's comment: libertarianism has existed quite well unfortunately cloaking a corporate monopoly ideology with individual liberty. The "Wise Use"TM astroturf movement is one example from the U.S. Ron Paul is not like that, though much of what passes for libertarian sentiment is symbolic corporate pork politics.

Besides, Ron Paul's desire of dismantling everything really uncannily goes well with what the Clinton/Bush neocons have been doing for 20 years in the USA. If they let him win with e-vote fraud, it will just be neocon policies jumping into another ideological cloak, the same as has increasingly happened as the German Greens have become neoliberalist as well.

They'll just sell you the same neocon policies with a libertarian spin next I expect?

8/22/2007 12:07:00 PM  
Blogger ericswan said...

I wonder if the system would collapse of itself if there was no opposition. What's under your bed?

8/22/2007 12:24:00 PM  
Blogger Mark said...

Eric said:

"I wonder if the system would collapse of itself if there was no opposition...

Or only expand of itself with less opposition?

8/22/2007 12:35:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

That was a very interesting response, Drew, but I'd still quibble with how "social" your third-eye interaction with the womenfolk really is. More to the point, I'm intrigued as to why you feel it's hopeless or impossible to build a better world using Pythagoras' understanding. You know about that Schauberger stuff, presumably...


You've caused me great belly laughs. Science is "egalitarian"? Really? No hierarchy there, no strings attached to funding, no slavish devotion to the reigning paradigm, etc? God's Bodkin, that's amazing! Just for grins, since you've given me so many here, I wonder how you'd respond to the Scientific Establishment's expressed desire to burn the work of Rupert Sheldrake? Or, for even deeper chuckles, maybe you'd consider a little Bibhas De on the subject...

8/22/2007 12:48:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

One more tidbit, from that burning Sheldrake link, in the interview section:

(Sheldrake, answering a previous question): ...The question of conscious survival of bodily death is also something one can generally not go into from a scientific point of view. But of course one of the major obstacles to such a notion is the materialist assumption that memories are stored inside the brain -- which, if you think about it, is itself very much a metaphysical assumption.

Q: How do you mean metaphysical?

A: Well, materialism is a philosophical proposition or belief system which denies that there is anything underlying or beyond physical reality. Since this view is not, itself, scientifically testable, it's just as metaphysical to assume the physical world has no source beyond itself, as to assume it has. One is, of course, entitled to either assumption. But either way is a purely philosophical position, and I don't think scientists have any special privilege to proclaim on this...

Sounder, ericswan, anybody?

8/22/2007 01:19:00 PM  
Blogger Dr. Bombay said...

Excellent post! When our
elected officials propose policies
that will make us nothing more
than indentured servants to the
State, while stripping us of our
basic civil liberties they must be
made aware that their will be
consequences for their actions. As
long as they feel that we will
meekly submit to to their autocratic
rule, major reform is unlikely.

As far as Ron Paul is concerned,
anyone who's got the balls to come
out and say that his first act as
President will be to abolish the
IRS...let me repeat that.. ABOLISH,
not "reform" the IRS is going to
get serious consideration from me.
I've said this before on this blog
but I firmly believe we are paying
for our own demise as a people
and as a nation, by allowing the
IRS to reach into our pockets
and steal our hard earned money
to finance what amounts to
the NWO. Not ONE PENNY of what you
pay in Federal income tax goes
into the Federal Treasury. It all
goes to the Federal Reserve (which
is neither Federal nor has a
reserve) and trillions of OUR
tax dollars are controlled by
individuals who are so far removed
from any sort of oversight that we
can't even be told their names.
The fact is we do not need the IRS
to collect taxes to pay for basic
services because those services
are already payed for by sales
tax, corporate income tax etc.
So if you want to stop the NWO,
stop funding it trough the front
man known as the IRS.
And the thought just occurred to
me that if "State Militia's"
were put in place to help secure
and monitor our Federal elections
perhaps they would not be so easily

8/22/2007 01:20:00 PM  
Blogger Vemrion said...

Jeff: This is a bit off topic (or maybe not), but as a Canadian I thought you might want to know, if you don't already, about the recent SPP protests that were almost sabotaged by police provocateurs.

However, instead of inciting a riot the undercover cops managed to get themselves exposed!

The most amazing thing is that the media is actually covering it!

8/22/2007 01:29:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

GEEGEE wrote:

"The highest form of energy is emotion -- especially the heart chakra. But the emotion energy comes from the life force energy -- the kidneys."

Ya know, I think he/she/it must be write. This morning I took a long piss and, wow, what an emotional experience! My fourteenth chakra is still spinning.

And I thought the seat of the soul was the liver. Silly me.

Maybe it's the adenoids.

8/22/2007 02:20:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sheldrake relies on standard use of resonance -- with a logarithmic, symmetric definition. So for him evolution is just based on "habits" which are malleable.

This is the same problem with Kepler, Newton, Galileo and the rest of science.

Alchemy comes from asymmetric resonance while science is based on symmetry. This is why Sheldrake, Capra, Ken Wilber, and the rest of the while male science gurus are wrong.

8/22/2007 03:18:00 PM  
Blogger Jeff said...

"Vemrion said...

Jeff: This is a bit off topic (or maybe not), but as a Canadian I thought you might want to know, if you don't already, about the recent SPP protests that were almost sabotaged by police provocateurs.

Yeah, I saw that. It's being discussed on the RI board here

8/22/2007 03:59:00 PM  
Blogger wwwdotnet said...

My, what a great piece of video and article on the Canadian protest. It is so blatant. Acting is a great skill, and to direct actors another. With all this mess we have, neither the direction nor the skills are being developed it seems. the result is an elite, and their tools, of poor theatrical skills and bad production value! Who was in charge of the costumes? Bandannas and a rucksack full of sandwiches their mothers made?

Can someone post a nice starting point for Sheldrake for me? And SOUNDER, one to warm me up in I-thought. It is not the most googleable search term.

BOMBAY, it is sad...we all used to live in great big phallaces , but then one day we were all ejected from our homes. Now, we are on the receiving end, constantly picking up soap. I am also, rightly or wrongly, an admirer of Ron Paul. But he wouldn't ever go for a national health care system? But he just seems to feel his words, which for me makes a great difference. Maybe he's one of the few left at the top with a talent for theater. By the way Bombay, for a nice ending to these sexual references, have you heard of a Bombay roll?

8/22/2007 05:22:00 PM  
Blogger wwwdotnet said...

Also... VEMRION, or anyone..any links to the photos of the yellow triangles seen on the soles of the provocateurs and police?

8/22/2007 05:30:00 PM  
Blogger surrender said...

Dr Bombay and Belliosto,

Thank you. It seems to me that because the Militia is constitutional and should be as active as possible, without violenc, especially now, may be the only recourse we have to free ourselves from this, prison of corruption and lies, death and destruction, which is keeping us from the right to LIVE our lives as citizens of the world.

The way I see it, this kind of action must occur before we can free our minds and souls from the anvils of destruction, and build the kind of communities that IC envisions.

The US may be the only country that allows its citizens to form Militias to protect themselves from a government that has gone Extremely Maniac.I have not researched it enough but the full article that I quoted from earlier is intended to inform and educate us as to what rights we can exercise and why it might work.

IC: your doing a great job so far with making your point with Brenda and the rest of us. I will always appreciate you relentless attempts to stay conscious. It is our only true defense against archaic thinking that threatens our very existence.


MY Angels are a bit disturbed by your renunciation of thier existence, but they have chosen to forgive you and send a few more your way. They are considering sending them to you from the 4th and 5th dimensions, maybe even the 9th dimension, not sure.

Do you believe this latest SCIENTIFIC bullshit that a "new" virus is attatching itself to certain genes and making people FAT??????Wonder what new drug they will come up with to attack this sneaky litle virus that rides in on a gene into your body and causes it to blow up like a balloon blimp. I am sure it will be an "eat all you want and still lose weight" kinda drug.

Maybe, these Scientists will call this new drug "Blimp Busters"

Whadda ya think???

8/22/2007 05:38:00 PM  
Blogger Tin Mole Man said...

Belliosto said:

I may mention cannibalism but that does not make me a cannibal.

Are you sure?

Anyway, dude, I did not label you anything. I just want everyone here to know I never labeled anyone anything.

For the record, I believe in the Second Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, an obscure, antiquated law document that is the basis of statutory law in the country the United States.

8/22/2007 05:40:00 PM  
Blogger Tin Mole Man said...

Edo said:

It is then as if what did happen doesn't matter anymore for the story continues based upon a lie or an illusion.

And such is the way of all information up in this sheaaat.

8/22/2007 05:50:00 PM  
Blogger Tin Mole Man said...

Hi Brenda, I bet yer real, real perty.

Guess what, a SQUARE peg can only fit into a round hole only if its diagonal is as long or shorter than the diameter of the circle. Either way, the total area (two-dimensional “substance”) of such a SQUARE is always less than that of its accommodating circle.

Anyway, may the circle be unbroken, by and by, by and by...

Um, why are YOU here?

8/22/2007 07:07:00 PM  
Blogger ericswan said...

When the three amigos went to the press conference, a FOX reporter asked each of them to comment on the highway being constructed across the whole of N. Am. Harper stepped up first and didn't answer the question. Calderon was next and ditched it. Bush was a bit more candid and ignored the question. And that was a FOX softball. No mention of military interventions by any of the journalists playing ring toss.

IC..as far as taking on Brenda, I'll pass. What I would like to say is that Sheldrake misses the point as well. I posted a you tube experiment where a couple of guys froze a bottle of beer. I pointed it to you but I'm thinking you didn't see it and if you did you didn't see the Schauberger connection. Basically, the frozen bottle of beer is pulled out of the freezer after 3 hours. It's still liquid. One of the guys bangs the bottom of the beer bottle on a table and it instantly turns to ice. Same thing happens to our brain (read memory). Give it a hard enough whack and it forgets what it was doing.

8/22/2007 09:18:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

Well, ericswan, I wasn't really encouraging anyone to "take on" Brenda, nor for that matter was I consciously attempting to "defeat" her position in some sort of debate mode--it just seemed so funny to hear someone talk about science being egalitarian and free of bias and such-like. What I particularly liked about that passage I quoted from the Sheldrake interview was the way in which he demonstrated that science's denial of anything beyond the material plane was essentially a metaphysical position, just as much so as those who do think that existence cannot be entirely (or even adequately) explained through the lens of materialism.

When you and Drew say that Sheldrake misses the mark, or doesn't see the whole truth, etc, I think you might be correct, but that doesn't mean he's entirely wrong, either. For the person asking about a good intro to his perpsective, I would suggest this one as a good starting point, as it ties in the work of Bohm & Jung & Pribram and others who have attempted to pick up the threads of the morphogenesis school from the '20s (in an eerily similar parallel to the new Aetherist crowd's recent attempts to do likewise for that long-abandoned/effectively sabotaged movement.)

It's not necessary to tie up all the loose ends in Life, the Universe and Everything in order to have a valid perspective on some part of that Triad. Similarly, to reject Sheldrake's contributions as just another white guy hung up on symmetry is a bit short-sighted, I fear. If you twist the lens a bit and consider the relationship between chaos & order from the perspective of Rucker & the Choaticists, you'll see that symmetry and its opposite can (and do!) swirl around one another in the fractal chaos that is Nature on every level from the macro to the quantum. The only real point of departure or distinction is whether you buy the myth of entropy or have seen the light of syntropy (if I can so blatantly give away my own bias).

On a most pragmatic level, there's this one question for which I'd really love to see an answer from you, Drew: if we can build engines of entropy-defying creation--for example, in those communities which produce more energy & water than they consume--why isn't the autonomy this provides (not to mention a community that is not based on fear & scarcity) enough to make the monopolies of the Owners irrelevant?

Please forgive me if I'm wrong in interpreting this sort of thing as a surrender to the old Limits of Growth and its cousin, the Zero-Sum Game, but it sure looks that way to me. It's not so much that limits don't exist (the planet and its resources are finite, after all) as what you do with those limits. Maybe oil is biotic...but who needs oil anyway?

Or those who peddle it and the wars we wage in its name.

Oh, yeah: yes, I did catch that retro-frozen beer thing, ericswan--what was the implication again, as it pertains to this discussion? (It's the connection I've forgotten; apparently there's a limit to the number of times you can jump synapses with battery cables, too.)

8/22/2007 10:32:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

IC -- I was just reading "Exploring Complexity" so more -- the book co-authored by Prigogine who got a Nobel prize for entropy studies.

Negentropy -- this book states that the heat-death of the universe ALREADY happened because the background radiation of the universe has so much entropy in it.

In other words, the book states very specifically, that for matter to be created spacetime had to have an irreversible creation of huge amounts of entropy.

The secret is something called "asymmetric time reversal" that's the basis for quantum chaos and also noncommutative geometry (one of the unified field theories).

Basically the reason there is more matter than antimatter in the universe is because of "spontaneous symmetry breaking" that was asymmetric -- even though all of science is based on symmetric measurements.

Scientists are desperately trying to make artificial life -- the key is how to control asymmetric, irreversible entropy.

It's hypothesized that silica originally was right-hand asymmetric and this enabled left-hand asymmetric carbon-based molecules -- the "vital clay" model of A.G. Cairns-Smith (see his book "Evolving the Mind.")

The problem is that all the technology -- even noncommutative geometry -- still relies on symmetric measurements that now prove Nature is irreversible asymmetric. Meanwhile the symmetric measurements are destroying asymmetric Nature! So how to justify this entropy creation! Argue that in fact for matter to be more present huge amounts of entropy ALWAYS-ALREADY had to be made.

Nice justification -- meanwhile the experiments are actually creating antimatter positronium weapons -- and synthetic black holes -- that could chain-react and vaporize the whole planet.

So much for "free energy" systems.

The only thing free is formless awareness itself -- the nonlocal information that is beyond causality and relies on a "primitive asymmetry" that can not be reproduced.

We can logically inference it's existence -- as Kurt Godel emphasized. The vortex model for physics -- put forth first by Descartes, then Helmholtz, then the two Thomson physicists, has secretly been the basis for electrogravitic propulsion systems which have paranormal effects.

Read the book "Beyond Telepathy" by CIA mind controller Andrija Puharich for details -- his "psi-plasma vortex" as the centerpiece of my book.

Basically you can create the effects of a black hole mass that bends spacetime through a very high voltage frequency wire that has a nonlinear feedback with the atmospheric pressure. Leonard G. Cramp's book "The Cosmic Matrix" is actually very fascinating in this respect.

But there are always "externalities" of such systems that are not free. As my conspiracy friend states: "They're repealing the Law of Gravity."

Entropy is inherent with the symmetric basis of mathematical measurements which has the "music logarithmic spiral" trajectory of increasing intensity of technological destruction.

The solution is to practice asymmetry -- through rational number overtones -- LISTEN -- switch to an auditory dominance system.

We are already free -- the concept that we need to "save the planet" is the problem -- humans do not exist outside of Nature and the attempt to control nature through visual-based technology creates deep disharmony.

This system has its limit built-in from the very beginning it established the Pythagorean Theorem -- aka the Power Set Axiom -- a trajectory of mass squared inversely proportional to energy frequency distance.

Dimension is just the magnitude of the hypotenuse as the irrational number. We can say that the Cantor Set is an infinite fractal with no real distance but in fact the way to create that fractal is through logarithmic disharmony.

And so on.

8/22/2007 10:52:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

But Tin Mole Man you said on 8/19/2007, 9:25 PM...

Dr. Bombay & Belliosto,

Violence is not the answer. It is the most primitive way to solve our problems.

Then you asked me if I'm sure that I am not a cannibal.

In my opinion you kind of separated me from any mature influences involved here and threw me into a camp of potentially violent people, who cannot help themselves from committing acts of violence. Again I am not angry. I felt a little uncomfortable about being presented as a possible violent person here.

Yeah Tin Mole Man I look at grown men shooting guns in the woods practicing military drills as being rather violent. It is about fight, fight, fight. What is this worth? Any militia group would probably be totally defeated by Government authorities. If militia men protested by not working then they would be replaced by other men who would not be a problem in my opinion. Then the militia would be labeled as an un-American terrorist group as they are today by our establishment.

Yeah you did not actually label anyone. Your presentation about violence made me feel uncomfortable. That's all.

8/22/2007 11:24:00 PM  
Blogger Dr. Bombay said...


Well...my version of a Bombay Roll
consists of an intelligent female,
say around ..twenty two, a fifth
of cold Bombay Sapphire gin, a spliff
the size of Big Ben rolled by
Richard Branson himself and some
scuba gear....and yours?

8/22/2007 11:50:00 PM  
Blogger ericswan said...

Have you ever wondered why the word "stream" is used to describe water, video, time and cosmic conciousness? Who was that fellow that put his foot in the "stream" and noticed that you will never be able to do that again?

Schauberger and Drew would prolly agree that the stream is asymetric as are the subjects noted above. We homo sapiens sapiens may look symetrical on the outside but Drew has pointed out that our organs have different centres unlike our bones. Our brains may look equal but our abilities to use our brains are not.

My brain can't spell symetry, fascism, Guerdijeff, al kada. But my thought will "stream" my message nonetheless. The metaphor that I'm expanding is water. There is more to it than meets the I-thought. What is the Age of Aquarius if it isn't the ewer?

8/23/2007 01:24:00 AM  
Blogger Mark said...

On the topic of solving the easier mysteries of the world:

Eric said:

"I posted a you tube experiment where a couple of guys froze a bottle of beer. I pointed it to you but I'm thinking you didn't see it and if you did you didn't see the Schauberger connection. Basically, the frozen bottle of beer is pulled out of the freezer after 3 hours. It's still liquid. One of the guys bangs the bottom of the beer bottle on a table and it instantly turns to ice."

I think it has to to with the combination of factors involving [1] fizzy-carbonation that is thrown out of solution all at once in a very cold [2] alcoholic liquid. The alcohol keeps the rest of the liquid from freezing well below 32 F.

However, the rapid expanding air bubbles (that if you look at any of those videos is the area of the freezing) released when you tap it reduces the general temperature of the liquid even more--way below freezing. So it does start to freeze automatically, because the alcoholic liquid is already colder than 32 F.

For another comparison of the same, I read something once about the top of a champagne bottle. Even when merely chilled, in the instant it is popped, the rapid expansion at the top where that little wisp of smoothly flowing frost comes out,
has dropped the air temperature under the cork that expands rapidly down well below -50 degrees F in that instant.

In a closed beer bottle that is tapped, this air expansion lowers the temperature just the same only it has no where to go except to freeze the liquid.

It's based on a strange principle of all materials (particularly water is extreme in this) that it can exist at 32 F as liquid phase water and 32 F as solid phase ice. There is a rather large heat threshold to cross there instead of simply linear dropping of temperature automatically getting the next solid phase. There's a huge hurdle to get there. That supercooled alcoholic solution (beer) is below it already so it's teetering on the edge. When the bottle is tapped, the expansion of bubbles drops the temperature even further. It immediately crosses the additional 'hurdle' as the still existing heat in the bottle is redistributed quickly. It might have something to do with the sudden added pressure in the bottle as a result, since pressure can effect a phase change as well even while temperature remains the same. Lots of odd things are conjoined in that little party experiment.

Water has these other weird properties:

Mpemba effect

The Mpemba effect is the surprising phenomenon whereby hot water can, under certain conditions, freeze sooner than cold water, even though it must pass the lower temperature on the way to freezing. However, this can be explained with evaporation, convection, supercooling, and the insulating effect of frost. [Supposedly, no one knows exactly what is occurring still in this--the effect was only noticed in the 1960s. And pure water was only isolated in the 1930s. ]

Hot ice

Hot ice is the name given to another surprising phenomenon in which water at room temperature can be turned into ice that remains at room temperature by supplying an electric field on the order of 106 volts per meter.[8]

Read up on the odd, though quite common, water molecule if you want:

Explicit Outer Bonding Transformations in Liquid Water. The Key to its Understanding.
SPQR Labs, Texas Tech University

8/23/2007 04:01:00 AM  
Blogger ericswan said...

Thanks Mark but there are still a few unanswered questions. Does Newton's third law apply here? The molecules of water are in motion which is slowed down by freezing. Water expands when it is frozen. The gas in a bottle under pressure has nowhere to expand if in fact, the top of the bottle is under pressure.

8/23/2007 09:10:00 AM  
Blogger Sounder said...

In the last thread, Jeff alluded to the Big Bang as something in science that is as much an article of faith as any religious dogma. Science is faith based because it seldom examines its initial premises. A person cannot be objective about reality if they impose materialistic limits to the examination of reality.

Mark said;

“As for hope, any concern for systemic change should be swayed by other things than a mere singular candidate with principles. More people like him are required to make a difference. However with only one of them, he only serves to legitimate via distraction the ongoing corrupt system on the federal level elections.”

Well said, Mark. No doubt, a large part of the appeal of Ron Paul to non-Americans is his declaration that projecting military leverage is not an appropriate way to achieve economic objectives. With wars allot of contracts get signed. It is an intentional misuse of resources. To make peace it would seem internal considerations come prior to the external changes. So I don’t do ‘politics’, but I can give moral support to certain ideas.

Excellent perspective on William James in this review.


“James's writing during this period revealed the shape of his thoughts to come. In reviews and lectures he began to explore the creative potential of uncertainty. "Doubt itself is an active state," he wrote, becoming convinced that what we call freedom grew out of what physicists call chance. Challenging Herbert Spencer's influential work, he insisted that the mind was more than a passive reflector of reality; preference and interest, not external stimuli, were the key to consciousness. Alice's compass was working its way. Philosophical problems were at bottom psychological problems, James concluded, and rationality itself was rooted in sentiment--the wish for a world that made sense.”

8/23/2007 09:11:00 AM  
Blogger Dr. Bombay said...

"Never doubt that a small group
of thoughtful, committed citizens
can change the world. Indeed, its
the only thing that ever has."

Margaret Mead

8/23/2007 12:44:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

Thanks for those references, Drew; I'll just plop them on top of the teetering stack, the growth of which is itself proof of something coming from "nothing." This, you see, is where all this seems to be heading. I've heard that scary talk about collateral black hole formation and other warpings of Einstein's rubber space/time beach blanket, too, but here again we're faced with the question of who's doing the tinkering and to what end.

Remember when I asked why the secret knowledge that Pythagoras seems to have lifted from some murky Egytptian (Atlantean?) sources and which was then further developed by Kepler, Keely, Tesla, old Viktor and the Vectorists/Aetherists (to name but a few) couldn't be put to some non-Masonic use? Well, you seem to suggest that this understanding and the anti-Promethean/cold electric/cold fusion...negentropic technology which comes from it can only do more harm than good, that whether we think we're just rehabilitating a dead river or building a self-sufficient community, we're still, if unwittingly, ripping the seams of the Multiverse apart...Or am I misreading that?

It is a worthwhile question to pose--"where is the energy coming from?"--when the Zero-Point enthusiast cobbles his contraption together, since it's obviously not ex nihilo, but there's also the frame of reference to consider. Even if you're willing to abandon the closed system as an arbitrary and fundamentally unnatural construct of the materialists, fretting over the apparent "sourcelessness" of De's photon's mass is more appropriate to the discussion of the Black Ops agencies' positron weapons than to my little fix-the-planet schemes. (Even if there are delicious hints of transmutation of the elements therein...)

In other words, if the creative blue-green engine was once in harmonic balance, why shouldn't we be able to re-balance it without waking Zeus (or, more probably, his father and the titans in their frozen prison)? Because of the energy that the worldkillers have already so profligately extracted?

Scale is not insignificant in this discussion.

If you follow Sepp's thermodynamic cycle, sure it's got a certain undeniable symmetry, but it also points to Nature's habit of repairing itself. The energy required to produce the amber the tree secretes to seal the stump of a dismenbered branch does not kill the tree or throw the forest into a downward energy-leaking death spiral.

(Esaruoho talks about some other properties & behavior of water that Mark didn't quite cover in his links here...)

My Scots independence/anarcho-libertarian-communist/sci-fi guy Ken MacLeod views the Greens with dark suspicion, which Mark has supported here recently as well, but if you remove those unseen agents who would attempt to place environmental stability/sustainability in opposition to & outright competition with the desire for social justice, there's no reason that the two imperatives shouldn't be re-united after their long artificial separation.

It's easy to say that we're already free when you limit the location of that freedom to some non-physical state, but there again we're reducing our "choices" to either some sort of post-human transcendence (trance-end-dance?) or the same beastly subjugation to the Entropy Regime. It wasn't one of the proles who told us we couldn't eat the cake, after all. (What is the bloody point of having it, elsewise?)

Again, I'm not knocking your choice; we'll all have to discorporate eventually anyway. I just think that we might as well tidy up the house before we go--really live once before we die.

You'll have noticed (I hope) that I'm also careful not to phrase my defiance of those fookin' PTB and their world-as-it-is as some sort of battle between good & evil (as Mr. Sheldrake described/questioned it in Jeff's post): I don't want to defeat them, I would much rather make them and their misappropriation of the Ainur's Song irrelevant, obsolete...an impotent and deranged fantasy of the power-mad imperialists.

Why shouldn't we investigate our human potential before we climb into the cocoon for the next stage?

8/23/2007 01:59:00 PM  
Blogger Mark said...

IC wrote:

"My Scots independence/anarcho-libertarian-communist/sci-fi guy Ken MacLeod views the Greens with dark suspicion, which Mark has supported here recently as well,...

Some interesting quotes from the 1986 edition of Green Politics (mostly by Spretnak), on the topic of spirituality and materialist views contending against each other in the alliance-based formation of the Greens.

Spretnak and others went around and interviewed many of the German Greens of the first generation describing the origins of the movement and its strategies and goals:


p. 25
"Perhaps the most interesting, visionary Green theorist is Rudolf Bahro, who evolved into post-Marxist politics all the way from the inner circles of the East German Communist Party. On the 30th anniversary of the German Democratic Republic, sixth of October 1979, 20,000 criminals were released from prison under a general amnesty. Bahro was included because a public outcry from the west at his sentencing for writing The Alternative in Eastern Europe. Some people had discerned "a hidden Green" in his book, and when he moved to West Germany he was warmly welcomed by the nondogmatic leftists who were part of the FPA-The Greens. Only a few weeks later he was a keynote speaker at the Green Association's assembly at Offenbach, where he surprised the radical-left Greens by stating, "In our own civilization, Christ was incontestably the first teacher of our ultimate goal, the first teacher of the general emancipation of humanity." He has continue to surprise and confound the left -- and to inspire the majority of the party -- with statements such as: "The Greens are to Marx and Marxism what Einstein was to Newton and Newtonian physics -- in short, a qualitative transformation of a worthwhile system whose time, however, is up." Of the tensions within the greens he told us: "Although no one any longer contends that Marx was correct in a general sense, a big problem with any Greens is that we are still operating within the remains of Marxism, legitimizing things in terms of the old tradition."


p. 53-4
"The Greens include in their analysis of our into related crises in the "spiritual decay" and "spiritual impoverishment" of our industrial societies, and they call for the inclusion of "spiritual subjects" in the education of our children….Many, if not most, of the greens in that consider themselves Christians but are not often involved with institutionalized religion. When we asked Greens at all levels of the party and in most parts of the country whether there is a spiritual dimension to green politics, most emphatically answered "Yes" although almost no one could discuss the concept except in vague terms. The main reason spirituality remains largely on articulated in the Green party is that Hitler manipulated the pre-Christian Teutonic myths, or sacred stories, to serve the propaganda machine of his National Socialist party. Hence, as Petra Kelly remarked (who was likely murdered right as Germany recombined--the Greens were against reforming Germany, including an ex-military General who went Green who seems to have been murdered with her), the overt linking of spiritual values and politics is merely forbidden: "A problem in the Realpolitik of West Germany is that anytime you mentioned spirituality people accuse you of talking about something perverted-because it was perverted by the Nazis." In addition to the Nazi legacy, there is the Marxist insistence among most of the radical-left Greens that the spiritual dimension of life does not even exist so naturally it is not permitted to be discussed in connection with political goals.

[Regardless that the Sheldrake point above could be argued for Marxism the social movement: it's metaphysical insistence of only matter-world issues]...Many of the early members of the Greens recalled that the spiritual impulse was stronger in the days before the movement became a party, partly because moving into party politics within the post-Nazi context they been cautious about expressing spiritual principles and partly because the influx of radical-left members after the impressive showing in the European Parliament campaign in June 1979 squelched expressions of spirituality. However, during the early period of the Green movement the Anthroposophists, followers of Rudolf Steiner's spiritual and ecological teachings, played an important role,....They are still a strong force in the Green politics of Baden-Wurttemberg: Dr. Giselna von Kugelgen, a wise and charming white-haired woman who is well-known in the Anthroposophist community, was the top vote-winner for the Greens in the Stuttgart city Council election of June 1980."


p. 100
"We asked [Jo] Muller whether this meant that the Greens did not favor of nationalization of private property. He stated emphatically that they did not. "Expropriation, as Marx demanded it, necessarily implies centralization. But the Green principle is decentrality. for me this is a decisive point, because it is well known that smaller entities are more easily subject to Democratic control. This thesis is simply true...[Sounding like Ron Paul...]...[t]his is why we say: no expropriation and central planning, for heaven's sake! Rather, wherever possible, create something like community property....The decisive entity in our society has to be, from the perspective of our politics, not the federal government but the traditional notion of the community. This could even be the traditional Christian community or, in a different manifestation, the commune."


p. 23-4
"In the summer of 1983 it was apparent that tensions still existed between those party member is proposing "radically Green" positions and those who had come from a dogmatic-left background. We often asked our interviewees, as we travel around West Germany, whether a particular goal or strategy they had described was embraced by everyone in this heterogeneous party: "Does everyone in the greens support nonviolence absolutely?" We asked. "Yes... except certain Marxist-oriented greens." "Does everyone in the greens see the need for the new kind of science and technology you have outlined?" "Yes... except certain Marxist-oriented greens." "Does everyone in the greens agreed that your economic focus should be small-scale, worker-owned businesses?" "Yes... except certain Marxist-oriented Greens."


p. 26
"Ultimately, the role of the left within the Green party may be described most accurately with the joke we heard frequently: "Two Greens, two opinions." However, the left evokes three general categories of responses. The Group-Z Greens emphatically feel that they are core members of the party, and they are accepted as such. Thomas Ebermann told us "I think of those who define themselves as "the real Greens" make a mistake and are dishonest. The Greens are that spectrum that has come together, and no one can say he is the authentic Green."....A second view, held by some portions of the party, is that group-z Greens hinder the evolution of Green politics, as Roland Vogt explained: "The materialist-Leftist approach is destructive within the Greens. Whenever the visionary or spiritual people make a proposal, the Group-Z Greens neutralize it...." Because of the Marxist-oriented Greens, Gruhl left the party in late 1980, as did many members in the state of Schleswig-Holstein (where a takeover by former-Communist greens was bitterly resented) and in the city-State of Bremen. Gruhl's attempts to form a coalition among those former Greens failed, and then he founded a small organization, the Ecological Democratic Party. (However, tensions between the Group-Z Greens and the rest of the party are much less now than in the early days, as Vogt and others agree.)"


And thanks for the link to the Digital Biology bit. First good page I have seen on that. It made it into Commodity Ecology for several categories.

8/23/2007 05:25:00 PM  
Blogger Tin Mole Man said...

Belliosto said:

In my opinion you kind of separated me from any mature influences involved here and threw me into a camp of potentially violent people, who cannot help themselves from committing acts of violence. Again I am not angry. I felt a little uncomfortable about being presented as a possible violent person here.

Dude, chill bro. We are not enemies, you and I. I did not label you though, for the record. I noticed that you were breeching the subject of violence. I was trying to disuade you from finding yourself on some list as an enemy combatant.

I hate the fact that modern "activism" avoids violence, or any philosophy that condones violence, like it is a disease. This is ridiculous I think. Should we allow only the tyrants to violently condition us? No. Definitely, No. If we need to get physical to make it clear to them that it will cost them to fuck with us, maybe that's okay.

You better have a good hiding place.

I just happen think that it would be impossible to fight them, unless there was a sudden crack in the zeitgeist that caused a spontaneous mass revolution. What would it take? Like I was discussing with someone recently, even if they announced that our first born would be state property or something, it wouldn't happen. There seems to be no offense that the powers that be commit that will inspire anyone to do anything but drool or whine, the latter of which me and you do often.

Violence is a word. It is a reality. It is happening. It will happen. to avoid it is a grave mistake, and a mistake that will curse the irresposible, fearful Americans who actually support our draconian criminal justice system--who support it not because they think they need protection, but because they think that everyone else but themselves should get what they deserve. Then there are those who think they need protection and don't mind not owning guns: they think the guvmint with protect em.

It's a mess and hard to make sense of.

Violence happens no matter what.

8/23/2007 06:22:00 PM  
Blogger ericswan said...

I can say that Dan's present activities are so important, pressing and secret that those in the new group, the group which took over from Majestic at the end of 2006, the group for whom he has agreed to make himself available, sought him out for this assignment and insisted that he is limited to no public contact until after December 14, 2007. This will provide the time for him to complete his activities with them, and be debriefed from the assignment. His present assignment is National Security related. Due to the nature of the assignment, Dan has accepted and been sworn to a National Security Oath.

Following his activities for the new group, Dan and I will be publishing our new book, 'Emanation of the Solfeggio', which will detail cutting edge discoveries in the area of acoustics. Next year, he and I will be speaking publicly (in person) about Project Lotus - the groundbreaking investigation into a strange silicate-associated phenomenon which may be altering the genomes of every living organism on planet earth. We are presently scheduled for an academic venue and planning a general audience presentation. (Introductory video trailers are already on Google.) A new edition of our work on Mars and Earth anomalies is also underway.


8/23/2007 06:55:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

IC -- the mahayana buddhists state that there are 8 levels of consciousness. The first 5 are the body. the 6th is conceptual -- all the writing on this blog is the 6th level. The 7th level is the ego-mind. the 8th level is the whole universe.

In order to "empty out" the 8th level of consciousness -- the universe -- you have to first empty out the first 5 levels of consciousness -- the body. The two are joined together.

Nature grows from within so science will never empty out the first 5 levels of consciousness, because science relies on subconscious projection of body awareness.

Buddha taught that the best method of meditation is the 'inner ear' method. To ask "where does energy come from?" you can start with your body -- and your brain.

Who is asking the question? Where does sound come from in the brain?

Inventors have tried external alchemy but it only works in conjunction with internal alchemy. So Keely had to touch his tools. Telsa was a yogi visionary who could heard slight sounds a block a way and had to live in solitude.

Anyway who works closely in Nature will develop this sense of consciousness beyond duality -- neither inside nor outside.

But those physical "territories" of energy are then coopted by science through mathematics. All of mathematics relies on symmetry while alchemy relies on asymmetry.

There are different levels of "emptiness" just as there are different levels of "consciousness" but the energy that connects this difference between "inside" and "outside" is resonated through asymmetric nodes.

Buddha stated that desire is suffering. Understanding the source of desire ends suffering.

Why do you desire to know the source of energy? Desire is controlled by emotions which are based on complimentary opposites modeled by harmonics -- the inner ear method.

So, just like learning a music instrument, you have to focus your mind on the source of energy -- the body.

Writing will not work. All words are based on the assumption of an "I-thought." The source of the I-thought resonates through complimentary opposites.

Because we exist within Nature than we have no choice but to harmonize with Nature. This can be learned the hard way -- through subconscious desire projected as technology (the biopower of capitalism) or the easy way (the complimentary opposite harmonics).

Some scientists are aware of this secret religion behind science (Freemasonry) -- including Sheldrake (who studied at the Freemasonic Sri Aurobindo's ashram, mentioned in my blogbook).

8/23/2007 08:02:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

Writing will not work. All words are based on the assumption of an "I-thought." The source of the I-thought resonates through complimentary opposites.

Because we exist within Nature than we have no choice but to harmonize with Nature. This can be learned the hard way -- through subconscious desire projected as technology (the biopower of capitalism) or the easy way (the complimentary opposite harmonics).

This is a very interesting notion. I tend to have my most lucid impressions of the way things hang together late at night, when I'm out walking, too tired to think clearly...and not really trying to anyway. Unbidden, non-verbal, the stream rises and I'm carried away by it. Everything seems so simple, so clear, so obvious.

Then, when I sit down and try to recapture some of this stuff in the clear light of day, it's like translating terms that don't have literal expressions.

I was telling a friend of mine about my recent experiences reading Schauberger's one and only book, Unsere Sinnlose Arbeit (Our Senseless Toil) at this open source site I found after being frustrated at not being able to afford Callum Coats' Living Energy and his Eco-Technology Series books from Amazon (they're all listed at the bottom of Frank Germano's page here). The thing is that he didn't work out his theories according to any conventional wisdom and he certainly didn't rely on any mathematics to support them (Bibhas De also talks about the invasion of the mathematicians into the world of physics, which phenomenon has pushed the few remaining "natural philosophers" right off the map).

Instead, Schauberger just opened himself up by sitting still, letting his eyes rest on a flowing stream for as long as it took for the patterns of energy to reveal themselves to him. Tesla spoke of his whole adult life merely being the attempt to make tangible what he perceived in an instant as a 15 year-old boy in the mountains of his native land.

The strange thing about reading Schauberger in the original is that even though my German has gotten pretty rusty from disuse, and despite his translators' constant warnings that the old boy is impossible to translate because of the "mystical" nature of his writing, it seems, well, perfectly sensible to me, even when my vocabulary fails me now & then.

So, yeah, I see exactly what you mean about the futility of writing true images, but some of us manage this trick despite the difficulty. I'm also still reading Pynchon's new one, Against the Day (which, btw, is all about exactly these things we've been discussing these past few threads), and this guy's ability to thread the impossible needle is just breathtaking.

Also, despite the incommensurability of the physical media, some people are able build things which embody the visions they've been granted. If the Bad Guys are able to fashion weaponry from the hidden flow, I don't see why we can't build life-friendly stuff, too. I've seen it in the organic architecture of Eugene Tsui and in the strange artifacts coming out of the biomorphic school, so I know it's at least possible, if maybe not exactly second nature yet.

8/23/2007 10:31:00 PM  
Blogger ericswan said...

Download McCanney Aug. 23 show free here..


How to power the planet with hurricane energy...

who is stealing all the water from Lake Superior

the Minnesota tie in...

8/24/2007 12:21:00 AM  
Blogger Sounder said...

Drew said;

"Because we exist within Nature then we have no choice but to harmonize with Nature. This can be learned the hard way -- through subconscious desire projected as technology (the biopower of capitalism) or the easy way (the complimentary opposite harmonics)."

This reminds me of the True Reality Creation article over at Montauk.net, when a contrast is made between painful struggle and fun struggle.

Also this;

"Formless awareness is the Absolute -- it cares not -- it is beyond emotion. It is the logical inference of the I-thought that creates an asymmetric resonance of complimentary opposites."

I find this appealing, feel free to elaborate.

8/24/2007 08:24:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey Mark,

Are you familar with this School? I have a relative who works there and has a son who attends. The Father is in Intelligence....and he's an arrogant ass, from what I here.


It seems pretty creepy to me.


8/24/2007 02:14:00 PM  
Blogger Salam Hadad said...

hi how are I hope you are fine I also know odfried hepp i met him in damasucs in 1996 also later I saw him in Germany sine long time I didnt any information abut him please infom me if you know any information is he in jail or out doyou know his email..
many greeting


8/24/2007 02:26:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I would listen to traditional shiva music sung be females. The Indian modes create this blissful heart energy that stays in your head all day.

Full-lotus bliss is full body orgasm from the Female Principle (formless awareness) leading to magnetic fields shooting out of the pineal gland, transducing information around you.

8/24/2007 02:36:00 PM  
Blogger Mark said...

Shrub, thanks for the link, though if you really want to know about a private school's character, you would have to know who the trustees are--and their biographies. (For instance, Skull and Bonesmen when they are private school trustees generally coalease around a repeating handful of certain private schools they want to keep an eye on, to make sure they are 'for themselves' I guess). You would have to know which families kept sending their children there as well. Though it's a relatively recent foundation it seems in this case.

A 'new old-fashioned private Catholic preparatory school' may be a dime a dozen, though one that wants to connect itself with the Christian apocrypha is unique.

I'm not making this up, this is the way they describe themselves:

"The name Avalon is of both historical and spiritual note, reaching back nearly 2000 years. Christianity (and legend has it, the Holy Grail) was first brought to England by Joseph of Arimathea at Glastonbury on the Isle of Avalon. [They sort of skip the whole Christ story, note.] The Isle of Avalon also is the legendary resting place of King Arthur. Based on this information, Lord Baltimore gave the name Avalon to his first colony in the New World in what is present-day Newfoundland. Baltimore's express purpose for the voyage was "to plant the seed of piety and religion in the new world." Although the colony did not survive, it did pave the way for his "gentlemen adventurers" to found the colony of Maryland in 1634, where his dream of religious freedom became a reality. More recently, the concept of Avalon as myth has been claimed as a "new age" symbol. The Avalon School hopes to restore it to its rightful ["old age"] place in society."

How many other 'brand new' (only founded in the past several years) private boys schools hang their hat on the Christian apocrypha? And name their boys houses there after major royal and aristocratic families linked into the whole "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" storyline--regardless of what you or I may think of that issue:

"The Stewart Dynasty, which ruled England, Scotland and Ireland, oversaw England's first successful colonies in the New World, and their names have been enshrined from Jamestown, through the Carolinas, to Annapolis. James I (Stewart) knighted his former Secretary of State, George Calvert, as the First Lord Baltimore, and granted him permission to found the Colony of Avalon in Newfoundland. The next Stewart, Charles I, granted the Charter for Maryland to Cecil Calvert, the Second Lord Baltimore.

In honor of these Royal Founders, Avalon's Stewart House bears on its coat of arms the royal Lion Rampant (from the flag of Scotland where the dynasty first began), the Horn (as a call to battle or the hunt), and is distinguished by the color RED (the fierce color most traditionally reserved for royalty).

So they are lumping together Christian heritage religious freedom (from 'straight Catholicism') and a love and adherence of royalty at the same moment, go figure.

I didn't know that Lord Baltimore attempted to found his own colony off in the Canadian area before the American Revolution (off Newfoundland--a presumed site of much escaped Knights Templar shenanigans in the late 1300s-1400s--read some Michael Bradley), and that Maryland was his son's second choice location in the next generation. And just which Mary is his potential double entendre meant to honor?

This bloodline thing appears to be real. It's just one interesting esoteric bit of history about European Christianity--that one variant of it kept the traditional Jewish bloodline leadership cadres (like some other escaped groups to India that continued the same with more Jewish cultural attachments). There's always been a plurality of Christianities in Europe by definition, despite the 800 year police state of the Inquisition versions (or Protestant versions) attempting to stamp out different equally real variants that were heresies to its own view. At least that's my view on this.

Another odd crypto-bloodline Christianity story? Read about the odd story connected to Michael Bradley's 'helpmate' Joelle Lauriol (French translation of last name: 'the halo' (gloriole)), who was delivered to Bradley with a memory wipe of her teen years, a difficulty emotionally bonding, a history of being Mormon (relapsed), all arranged by the Rosicrucian Order.

8/24/2007 03:45:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Funny you should mention this -- I just got back from reading Michael Baigent's new book "The Jesus Papers" -- on the whole secret bloodline argument.

It's bunk. He has some interesting analysis but most of the book is built on spurious research totally blown away by Acharya S.' research.

I've tried to dispute Acharya S.' research, by reading Bishop Lightfoot's attack on her main source: Supernatural Religion by W.R. Cassels. Lightfoot's book, recently reissued, is an extremely erudite promotion of the mainstream view but Cassels admits very clearly that Eusebius was deciding which texts were forgeries or not.

The historical Jesus is a product of the Roman Empire.

8/24/2007 05:08:00 PM  
Blogger CuriosityShop said...

Mark said
This bloodline thing appears to be real. It's just one interesting esoteric bit of history about European Christianity--that one variant of it kept the traditional Jewish bloodline leadership cadres (like some other escaped groups to India that continued the same with more Jewish cultural attachments). There's always been a plurality of Christianities in Europe by definition, despite the 800 year police state of the Inquisition versions (or Protestant versions) attempting to stamp out different equally real variants that were heresies to its own view. At least that's my view on this.

I think it’s real, but not what Da Vinci code leads one to believe.

Great Galactic Ghoul said...
The historical Jesus is a product of the Roman Empire.

No doubt.

I am sorry to only have time to do a quick copy and paste, but the following article may be of interest.

And Brenda, I understand your viewpoint, but there is more to life than even science knows. When I held my newborn baby girl in my arms for the first time she smiled at me. I was engulfed in the most wonderful joy I have ever known, I happily laughed out loud and said look, look, she knows me, she’s smiling at me, and that scientist herr doctor, said no no my dear, your baby only has gas.

Science is one of the reasons we are in the mess we are in. Man’s supreme arrogance as master of all, we are the only creature on earth that seems intent on destroying its own habitat, and dooming our own children. We have lost our way.


Paratge ( Peerage):
"Paratge" translates literally into English as peerage, but this gives almost no clue to the significance or meaning of the word in medieval Occitania.

Paratge denoted a whole world-view, almost a philosophy, as alien to the modern mind as it was to the medieval French Crusaders. The word meant something more than honour, courtesy, nobility, chivalry or gentility though our concepts of honour, courtesy, nobility, chivalry and gentility all owe something to the concept of "paratge".

The word also carried implications of balance, natural order, and what is right. Paratge does not seem to have been a distinctly Cathar notion. The Count of Toulouse could reportedly use the word to the Pope in reminding him of his duty to paratge. In any case we have no indication of any disagreement between the two belief systems, which appear to have coexisted in complete harmony. If it seems odd that we have even the faintest echo of the concept in English, it is well to remember that Occitan was the first language of many in England, including two queens (Eleanor of Aquitaine, and John's wife Isobel) and an English King, Richard I).

The nearest concept to paratge we know of elsewhere seems to be the ancient Egyptian idea of Ma'aht - another untranslatable word carrying suggestions of right, cosmic balance and natural order to which may be added ideas of contentment, joy and light. In the modern world, the nearest we can come to it is probably in Eastern philosophies: the yin-yang and the Buddhist ideas of karma and what is "right".

The word paratge was used extensively in Occitan writings, and it features heavily in the works of troubadours and especially in the Song of the Cathar Wars. If you knew that a man upheld paratge, then that was pretty much all you needed to know about him. Similarly, if you knew that he despised paratge then again that was all you needed to know.

In the latter part of the Canso (The Song of the Cathar Wars) written in Occitan the writer is horrified and mystified that the French invaders seem to have no respect for paratge, or even any understanding of it. The charge is more serious than any other - indeed it probably encompasses all the others - deceit, brutality, vandalism, lying, hypocrisy, even mass-murder. Here is an observation, laisse 137, referring to the French Catholic Crusader victory over the joint forces of King Pedro II of Aragon and Count Raymond VI of Toulouse defending their lands at Muret:

Toto lo mons ne valg mens, de ver o sapiatz,
Car Paratges NE fo destruitz e decassatz
E totz Crestianesmes aonitz abassatz.
It diminished the whole world, be sure of that,
For it destroyed and drove out paratge,
It disgraced and shamed all Christendom.

Here is a later example from a famous coruscating indictment of a dead crusade leader, Simon de Montfort, referring to the epitaph on his original tomb at the Cathedral of Saint-Nazaire in Carcassonne. The inscription on it is now lost, but we know that it envisaged Simon as a saint enthroned in heaven, enjoying God's reward for his earthly deeds:

E ditz e l'epictafi, cel qui•l sab ben legir,
Qu'el es sans ez Es martirs e que deu resperir
E dins e•l gaug mirable heretar a florir
E portar la corona e e•l regne sezir.
Ez ieu ai auzit dire c'aisi's deu avenir
Si, per homes aucirre ni per sanc espanir
Ni per esperitz perdre ni per mortz cosentir
E per mals cosselhs creire e per focs abrandir
E per baros destruire e per Paratge aunir
E per las terras toldre e per Orgilh suffrir
E per los mals escenre e pels bes escantir
E per donas aucirre e per efans delire,
Pot hom en aquest segle Jhesu Crist comquerir,
El deu porta corona e e•l cel resplandi
The epitaph says, for those who can read it,
That he is a saint and martyr who shall breathe again
And shall in wondrous joy inherit and flourish
And wear a crown and sit on a heavenly throne.
And I have heard it said that this must be so -
If by killing men and spilling blood,
By wasting souls, and preaching murder,
By following evil counsel, and raising fires,
By ruining noblemen and besmirching paratge,
By pillaging the country, and by exalting Pride,
By stoking up wickedness and stifling good,
By massacring women and their infants,
A man can win Jesus in this world,
Then Simon surely wears a crown, respondent in heaven.

Elsewhere the canso [laisse 147] reports that Simon's death filled the world with light and set paratge free.
An Excursus

In many respects an upholder of paratge resembled a perfect knight and an ideal gentleman. King Richard I of England was familiar with the concept - he was from the Aquitaine himself, the son of Eleanor of Aquitaine and the great grandson of William IX the first troubadour. He was a fluent speaker of Occitan and must certainly have understood and respected paratge. He himself was greatly esteemed in his time. Even his Moslem enemies called him Melek Ric - the True King.

Yet Richard was not the greatest embodiment of the ideal of Paratge. The two men remembered by English history who perhaps most embodied the ideals of paratge were both alive at the same time as Richard. One was William Marshal. The other was Al-Malik al-Nasir Saleh ed-Din Yusuf, better known to us as Saladin. Both were renowned and honoured even by their enemies. Richard held them both in the very highest esteem - though he spent years fighting Saladin, and had once had to beg for quarter from William Marshal. History gives us a good indication of both men:

Saladin. On one famous occasion, seeing Richard's horse killed beneath him in battle, Saladin sent him another. We also know that Richard offered the hand of his sister in marriage to Saladin's brother.

William The Marshal. William's surname was taken from his office. The hereditary title of "Lord Marshal" designated a head of royal household security - one of many senior officers of a kingdom. William, a younger son, became the finest warrior of his age and Marshal to Henry II. He was tutor in chivalry to Henry the Young King, and it was William who knighted the young Henry. It was also William who declined to kill the rebellious Richard.

It is a measure of Marshal's standing that after 1204, when King Philip Augustus of France and John of England started insisting that paladins should chose between their territories in Normandy and those in England, alone of all of them William Marshall was allowed to continue holding fiefs in both. It was Marshall's decisive action on the death of John in 1216 that ensured that the next king of England was Henry III, and not the son of the King of France. At the age of over 70 William lead the English army against French forces and killed the leader of the invading forces, a man 35 years his junior, in personal battle.

Marshal served five kings — Henry II, Henry the Young King, Richard the Lionheart, John and Henry III. Before his death in 1219, he was made Regent of England for the child-king, Henry III. On his deathbed, William was accepted into the Order of the Knights Templars. Stephen Langton described him as the "greatest knight that ever lived", a verdict that no one has since sought to overturn. He was also known as "the Flower of Chivalry". By the time he died, people throughout Europe referred to William alone when they spoke of "The Marshal"; and to anyone interested in European history he is still "The Marshal". If you try a Google search for William Marshal today you will find well over a million entries, and over 24 million if you spell it William Marshall.

Wiliam Marshal, Earl of Pembroke (1146-1219) from his effigy in the Temple Church, London

Always a pleasure
Movie girl

8/24/2007 06:36:00 PM  
Blogger Syn Diesel said...

I'm feeling linky.

Louie C K Explains The Catholic Church

http://www.consuptionjunction.com/content/detail.asp?ID=71609&type=1&page=3 (NSFW porn ads)

http://www.consuptionjunction.com/content/downloader.asp?file=/downloadsnew/cj_71609.wmv (file direct link)

8/24/2007 08:37:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sounder do you think animals want to directly communicate with us? Animals run on instinct. We can rely on freewill choice. I know that they pretty much are afraid of us humans unless they are domesticated. I'm thinking that their instincts dispermit them from communicating with us unless they are defending themselves. Then its barking, roaring, chirping, etc.. as a call to warn us off. I remember staying at a campground in New Jersey when a silverback gorilla approached us showing us his 2 foot penis in a rage. No I'm mistaken it was a silverback bird. His friends were in the bushes and trees watching him approach us. This was true. I do not know what kind of bird just a regular bird in New Jersey. He looked at us and pecked the ground over and over again. I realized he was begging for food. So I gave them some broken up hot dogs and fried eggs. The silverback birdman was a pretty bold young bird. I just thought I'd share this with you. It's kind of funny too.

To: Tin Mole Man yes I agree we are not enemies. Violence happens all the time. I see us as mammalians. Not better or worse than our mammalian cousins. As a bird flying from his nest is I. Out in the wild flying and taking care of business. Birds are not mammals but we are similar to them as well. Every time we leave our homes we have no clue as to what will happen to us. I sometimes tell people that you can never be too careful.

8/24/2007 10:05:00 PM  
Blogger Dr. Bombay said...

After hearing that Aaron Russo had
passed I went over to Prison Planet
to check out their coverage of his
death. They have posted the
interview that Aaron did with Alex
Jones, originally aired for paid
subscribers only, as a free webcast.
This is an incredible interview.
Aaron was "befriended" by Nicholas
Rockefeller while Aaron was running
for Governor of Nevada. Rockefeller
tried to recruit Aaron into the
CFR and laid out the whole agenda
of the New World Order. Over many nights of dinner and drinks
Rockefeller told Aaron about RFID
chips, the Federal Reserve scam,
the upcoming phony War On Terror,
and a huge terrorist event that,
11 months later, the world would
bear witness to as the staged 9/11
attacks. These events would signal
the final stages of the New World
Order's plans for total domination.
Think what you will of Alex Jones,
but this interview is not to be
Aaron..May you rest in peace

8/25/2007 05:20:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Funny. I just got back from the free food kitchen and this lady had said: "At least there's still chivalry left in the world" to me. I had been sitting in full-lotus doing a healing on her friend, an obese lady with a cane. As I sat in trance (we've hung a bit before) this electrochemical wave of sadness was sucked into my heart and transformed. She was now feeling better and got up to go. My reason for staying was over and after they both stood up I SPRANG out of full-lotus.


Now on instinct -- according to Gurdjieff instinct is very important in humans (especially in the final days of late capitalism).

Instinct is the lowest energy center of the three lower centers: sex and moving are the other two.

Instinct is equivalent to the tailbone or sacrum chakra -- the tail of mammals extends into the air and it their highest point for collecting consciousness.

For late capitalist humans instinct becomes the main energy center -- for perverts and sluts.

This is because, as Gurdjieff details, when there is too much abuse of sex then the body begins drawing on the lower center than sex for energy -- the instinct center.

Instinct is physical sensation and rote learning -- the two main forms of perception in late capitalism. Humans are increasingly just going through holographic rituals -- be it 6 hours of t.v. a day or cell-phone click consumerism.

8/25/2007 01:25:00 PM  
Blogger et in Arcadia ego Eve said...

Belliosto - animals definately want to communicate with us, no doubt about it.

Shrubbery - why you no visit me.

Jeff - I told Poulet if he kept sin-swording me (he even deleted 'have a nice weekend')I was going to post an anagram about him at Rigorous Intuition (and we all know what happens to you after Eve post an anagram about you on Rigorous Intuition).


Hi Dr. Bombay and Surrender - I love you guys!

8/25/2007 02:14:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This morning I took my thirteenth chakra out for a walk, and I decided to let it off the leash. It started to spin away from me, but then I firmly told it to "Heel!" and it came right back to me and stayed just a half step behind me on my right side. It's so obedient. Now I just say "Heel!" and it does.

8/25/2007 03:35:00 PM  
Blogger Syn Diesel said...

CuriosityShop said...

"Paratge denoted a whole world-view, almost a philosophy, as alien to the modern mind as it was to the medieval French Crusaders."

Leopold Kohr ("small is beautiful") had a sense of this. The greeks called it tonos. Kinda like the music of the spheres and harmony stuff.


I read this yesterday, seems appropriate for the synchrontron machine we have going on here.

"THIS CONCEPT, which one can understand as "the just measure '', "reasonableness'', or "proportion'', the Greeks named tonos. These differences in meaning invite one to look at its history. I want here -- especially in the light of energy tax proposals -- to look at tonos as the foundation for understanding cosmic relations in Western thought; it is also central in a 2,000-year tradition of making sense of oneself and of the world. Then one can see that if the common welfare is not built on a tonos, a certain tension, a proportion between humans and nature, the energy tax idea, together with other economic alternatives, slides into adaptive utilitarianism, systems-oriented technical administration or diplomatic environmental gossip.

A hundred years before the French Revolution, proportion as a guiding or orienting idea, as the condition for finding one's basic stance, began to be lost. Up to now, this disappearance has hardly been recognized in cultural history. The correspondence between up and down, right and left, macro and micro, was acknowledged intellectually, sense perception confirming it, up to the end of the seventeenth century.

Proportion was also a lodestar for the experience of one's body, of the other, and of gendered relations. Space was simply understood as a familiar cosmos. Cosmos meant that order of relationships in which things are originally placed. For this relatedness, this tension or inclination of things one to another, their tonos, we no longer have a word today. One cannot even imagine the experience of Dante, emerging from hell, rejoicing in the harmony of four new stars, having moved into the realm of justice, temperance, fortitude and prudence (Purgatory, Canto I). Today, one is confined to the positivist symbol of a scientific paradigm.

This energy tax proposal gives us the opportunity to make explicit the argument for ordering oneself and one's world through proportion. Such an attempt is not romanticism, nor a turning back of the clock, and certainly not a renunciation of social justice. On the contrary! We want to recall that tonos which was silenced in the course of Enlightenment progress as a victim of the growing mathematization of science and the desire to quantify justice. Therefore, we face a delicate task: to retrieve something like a lost ear, an abandoned sensibility. Perhaps we can achieve this with music."

8/25/2007 06:30:00 PM  
Blogger wwwdotnet said...

Bombay, your roll is the finest I have heard. Here is is not quite the same! About Aaron Russo, I first heard his mention of Rockefeller within the documentary/film Zeitgeist...I think it is a well made piece, although it skims surfaces, I think it is a great starting point for many who have an aversion to even thinking about conspiracy theory -


Animals communicating to us, oh sure ! I firmly believe there is something there. My first San Pedro trip was in a friend's garden, the peak was just as the birds started singing, and there i giggled with each tweet I heard. i distinctly remember one particular bird song, from the same place, which I felt was directed at me. Of course, San Pedro is a powerful cactus, but I think my senses were working differently for me to feel this communication. Or I was just "tripping". Nice, nice, nice.

8/25/2007 08:09:00 PM  
Blogger Syn Diesel said...

Just a curious question if anybody is listening err reading...

Has the name Claude Rifat come up in discussions here? I've been indulging in some reading of an old favorite subject of life extension and transhumanism-through-chemicals. Rifat has some writings on certain chemicals (like GHB) but also some what-is-mind stuff which I guess can be a subject studied by neurochemists just as honestly as the lofty philosophers and theologists.

One link which fit in nicely with the recent readings of mind-in-matter around these parts is this following thread I read the other day:



Consciousness and matter subject (tryptamines! yay!)

Memory subject (gnostic implications):

8/25/2007 08:37:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

A really fascinating essay on quantum consciousness is Henry M. Stapp's recent article, readable at his website:

Quantum Mechanical Theories of Consciousness (Entry in Blackwell A Companion to Consciousness, eds. Max Velmans and Susan Schneider, Blackwell Jan 2007)

Stapp focuses on philosophy of mathematics -- the difference between Number and Order (exactly the same emphasize I give in my blogbook).

The key issue again is that Heisenberg Uncertainty violates the equipartition principle -- the symmetry of all science, based on the commutative principle. But the matrix of Heisenberg is converted back to symmetry -- the logarithmic math of the Poisson Bracket.

There is a deeper, more radical problem with quantum consciousness -- namely that emotions arise from asymmetry itself and there never can be a proper conversion back to symmetry via science. So Stapp hones in on the real problem but doesn't provide the solution. Nevertheless it's a fascinating read.

8/25/2007 09:30:00 PM  
Blogger Syn Diesel said...

Great Galactic Ghoul said...

"Stapp focuses on philosophy of mathematics -- the difference between Number and Order (exactly the same emphasize I give in my blogbook)."

Kohr was onto something like that too. Order being proportion, relations or the quality of the Numbers, size and quantity. "Quantity has a Quality."

"Kohr remains a prophet today because even those social theorists for whom small is beautiful have not yet discovered that the truth of beauty and goodness is not a matter of size, nor even of dimensions or intensity, but of proportion."

8/25/2007 11:16:00 PM  
Blogger Sounder said...

Thanks Syn

From Milo Wolf,

"Our brains appear, in this model of reality, as a concentrated form of consciousness of which the SUBSTRATE is diffuse and pervades the whole Cosmos..."

While my sence of the particulars is a bit different than Wolf's work, and why would it not be; I do relate to his use of terms and general approach. Thing is, unless we are talking about a science of consciousness,it will not be science that will pull us out of this mess.

Bellistio, certainly all are trying to communicate, -ah but to find where the value is within each communication and to learn to create consistant value within ones own communication,-that is the nut to crack.

8/26/2007 07:23:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here's my blogbook again. Basically the solution is to practice something called "the microcosmic orbit" detailed in the book: Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality.


For the importance of this practice an excellent new source is Dr. David A. Palmer's book Qigong Fever: Body, Science and Utopia in China (Columbia University Press, 2007)

8/26/2007 10:13:00 AM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

Basically the solution is to practice something called "the microcosmic orbit" detailed in the book: Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality.

And this is going to fix what, exactly, Drew? You know, I kept patiently waiting and rephrasing my question--why we can't do anything to fix the world, using the very same knowledge & understanding of it that the worldkillers have misappropriated--and you refuse to answer me straight on, instead it's all this, "You're already free, look inward, look the the next world, etc..." frankly, ad nauseum.

If you choose to confine your activities to your navel zone, that's fine, Drew, but it's just bullshit to let the world go like that, especially when it's so easily fixed!

I'm sorry to sound so harsh & judgmental, but this guru-hood is galling. Sure, the kingdom of heaven is within us--always has been--but that doesn't mean it can't be reached physically. If you make this distinction between the material & the spiritual, then you're only echoing the same sort of empty dualisms that the elite have always fed us.

In a nutshell, we're not going to stop child slavery by consulting with and focusing on our chakras. If you say such things aren't our concern, then you've again joined the Owners in demeaning the importance of community.

It seems to me that the bodhisattva who turns back from nirvana to help his weaker brothers is doing more to right the cosmic balance than the ones who go on, heedless of the "illusion" of suffering.

In An End to Suffering: The Buddha in the World (a 53-minute audio file well worth the time), Pankaj Mishra writes:

It was what I began to see more clearly that autumn in Mashobra: what the Buddha had stressed to the helpless people caught in the chaos of his own time: how the mind, where desire, hatred and delusion run rampant, creating the glories and defeats of the past as well as the hopes for the future, and the possibility for endless suffering, is also the place — the only one — where human beings can have full control over their lives.

The mind is where the frenzy of history arises, the confusion of concepts and of actions with unpredictable consequences. It is also where these concepts are revealed as fragile and arbitrary constructions, as essentially empty. What seems like necessity weakens in the mind's self-knowledge, and real freedom becomes tangible.

This freedom lies nowhere other than in the present moment — the concrete present, the here and now, that the Buddha had affirmed over the claims of an abstract past and an illusory future.

To live in the present, with a high degree of self-awareness and compassion manifested in even the smallest acts and thoughts — this sounds like a private remedy for private distress. But the deepening and ethicizing of everyday life was part of the Buddha's bold and original response to the intellectual and spiritual crisis of his time — the crisis created by the break-up of smaller societies and the loss of older moralities. In much of what he had said and done he had addressed the suffering of human beings deprived of old consolations of faith and community and adrift in a very large world full of strange new temptations and dangers.

I wasn't talking about "salvation through technology" or any of the other deflections you offered up here, Drew. I just wanted a simple answer to my question, since you seemed to have done a great deal of research into the Pythagorean thread. I'm sorry that you find this knowledge exclusively "Masonic" and any use to which it might be put inherently evil--about which conclusion I very much disagree, as you've seen in my take on Schauberger's Our Senseless Toil.

I'm also sorry to disagree so disagreeably, so uncharacteristically violently even, but I just can't comprehend this turning your back on the rest of humanity. Do you have any kids?

Should that even matter?

I don't remember this from Epicenters of Justice...there seemed to be an intense interest in social justice there, very close to where I am now. Or have you simply evolved from that moment in time?

It still sounds pretty good to me:

...I have demonstrated the direct connection between the formal origins of western materialistic consciousness and the creation of inaccurate linear logic, science, technology and, oppressive legal concepts of sovereignty manifested in the corporate-state. I contend that unless the energy or power roots of open systems radical ecology are fully processed and unless the eternal multidimensional harmonic consciousness is restored, then the roots of formal inaccuracy will remain and the future will be a deepening of suffering on the planet.

8/26/2007 01:52:00 PM  
Blogger Syn Diesel said...

"All of these are like useful things as well as evil things."

- Sayings of Jesus, The Apocryphon of John

"The four chief demons are: Ephememphi, who belongs to pleasure, Yoko, who belongs to desire, Nenentophni, who belongs to grief, Blaomen, who belongs to fear. And the mother of them all is Aesthesis-Ouch-Epi-Ptoe. And from the four demons passions came forth. And from grief (came) envy, jealousy, distress, trouble, pain, callousness, anxiety, mourning, etc. And from pleasure much wickedness arises, and empty pride, and similar things. And from desire (comes) anger, wrath, and bitterness, and bitter passion, and unsatedness, and similar things. And from fear (comes) dread, fawning, agony, and shame. All of these are like useful things as well as evil things. But the insight into their true (character) is Anaro, who is the head of the material soul, for it belongs with the seven senses, Ouch-Epi-Ptoe."

8/27/2007 08:56:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

IC -- Western Buddhism is a very sorry state of affairs unfortunately. An excellent analysis of why this is the case is presented by the books of Buddhist professor and master Nan, Huai-chin (who also sits in full-lotus all the time).

Most Western Buddhists have not read Master Nan, Huai-chin -- because he directly challenges the "what is enlightenment" crowd. Huai-chin considers the 6th level of consciousness -- conceptual analysis -- to be very important but he emphasizes that humanity as a whole is a quandary for buddhism.

Buddhism is not "humanism" which is a form of NeoPlatonism. Buddhist monks in China now have cell-phones and cruise the internet. The Buddhist scholars in China around the turn of the century could see the end of Buddhism and translated their works into English with the hope that the West could perserve the Dharma.

In Thailand the monks in the northern forest -- where the real FULL-LOTUS practice ensued -- now have to devote their time to ecological and social justice issues. The Power Buddhism of Burma relies on military regime slave labor to build the meditation cabins for Westerners. Similar issues for Buddhism arise in Tibet and Sri Lanka. Buddhism was a tool, and continues to be a tool, for expansion of imperialism -- phonetic language, left-brain dominant imperialism.

Nevertheless Buddhism is the last stage of the Tantric city-states that ruled Western Asia, as matrilineal culture transitioned to the Solar Dynasty Freemasonic regimes.

Buddhism was always in a creative struggle with Taoism in China because Taoism did not rely on imperial tax patronage.

Activism arises naturally from the perspective of having no other choice -- if a person resonates with formless awareness then social and ecological justice are important because we are part of Nature.

Without the proper foundation everything else is pointless.

That attitude is not the norm for activism. Westerners think they can "save the planet" -- in fact this is impossible and it's this global existential leap that is the true cause for activism to face. As long as Westerners (mainly white males) think they need to "save the planet" then this is simply a projection of the white males repressed psychological imbalances.

The truth is Female and Nature is Female in principle. Most of Nature does not need males and until males learn how to achieve female bliss so that contact with formless awareness can be built then there will be a continued global existential crisis.

My masters thesis was written seven years ago and since then I've read one book a day while continuing to work at an environmental nonprofit part-time. The West continues to rely on "techno-fixes" for all problems but in fact the truth is a kind of tribal radical sovereignty -- a free flowing of psychic energy without any barriers between individuals or species.

This is achieved through bioacoustics -- nonwestern bioacoustics. For example the snake can hear through the air, contrary to popular opinion, but the snake, like the yogi or tribal healer, relies on the inner ear for communication.

Which came first the snake or the Tai-chi symbol? Justice is blind but it can be heard.

8/27/2007 02:43:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As far as the practicality of the "small universe" practice -- healthcare is the number one civilian cost.

Here's some examples of the dramatic results from natural resonance practice:


8/27/2007 03:22:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...


I can understand that. A friend of mine recently told me the story of the Patriarch of Thai Buddhism blessing a battleship in a public ceremony. But when I told another friend--a woman who came here from Thailand about 6 years ago--this story, she laughed and said, yes, this is what the leaders do, especially the men (who are the only ones calling themselves "leaders." She went to explain that the real leaders, at least those that the villagers look up to and come to for advice, are and always have been women. Wizened little grandmas who run these sorts of general stores in the countryside, dispensing food, medicines (traditional), and little nuggets of practical wisdom.

This is a microcosm for what I'm getting at here. The patriarchs have misappropriated and misapplied the understanding of Nature that we in the West call the Music of the Spheres. Burn the witches, keep the obvious truths hidden, obfuscated behind secret handshakes, secret societies. When you speak of the Big Boys making weapons from the True Knowledge, I take it to be the greatest perversion/logical conclusion of Bucky Fuller's Weaponry/Livingry paradigm. As a society, we have yet to make this switch from death to life, but as individuals we can.

There are practical applications of the TK which are "small" enough not to be extensions of one's ego, this "fixing the world" complex. I'm talking better living through design. This is not just another Great Man spreading his seed over the planet's face. In fact, it's the opposite.

It's paying attention to the smallest unit, the shabbiest hut that the poorest man calls home. Now, if I follow Schauberger's advice--to understand & copy Nature--this is, in your terminology, essentially a feminine, Earth-Mothering pursuit. I figure out how to rebuild the poorest man's house in accordance with the living energy of the planet...and two things happen.

One, we're relieving some of the pressure on the natural systems; instead of consuming resources and creating yet more pollutants, we're producing more energy & water than we consume. Two, we've just given the poor schmuck something he never had a hope of before, something we in the vastly "wealthy" West do not have: autonomy. He doesn't need anything They're selling. No scarcities, no fear.

The reason I'm drawn to this particular effort is because it's the most fundamental activity there is. Home is not just where the heart is--the mind lives there as well. If we go along with the Program, then we work for the Man at stupid, meaningless, planet-killing jobs in order to pay rent or mortgage on our socially stratifying mini-warehouses, from which we peer out at "the world," maybe fling some shit at the monkeys next door or attend fancy dinner parties in the neighborhood (fairly approximate activities, if you think about it.)

Scale is what's important here, along with the power dynamic. You are correct when you say that most "fix the world" schemes can't work, since they are essentially wrong-headed, in that they make those they're "helping" clients, giving yet more power (fealty, deference, dependence) to the "donor" than the new vassal.

Politics and policy decisions/initiatives are also doomed to fail for similar reasons.

This other way is a short-cut, an end-around, a reversal of that whole thing. Those Biotecture crews come to town and, well, now something very different is happening. They build your off-grid house from discarded materials, whatever is lying around basically, and in the process, they teach you and your 11-man crew how to do it. You, in return, take a road trip and teach another seed community how to do it. (Here's the famous 11-minute movie version.)

Pretty soon, things are turning green, nobody's buying anything at the Company Store, and your kids are asking, "Daddy, what's a 'banker'? I read it in a book the other day."

It's a revolution from the ground up, unlike all the others.

Two books that talk about this sort of leaderless movement (I'm in that book-a-day club, too) are Paul Hawken's Blessed Unrest and a more practical, team effort called Design Like You Give a Damn: Architectural Responses to Humanitarian Crises. Although it gives you the long view, which I've been stressing is not the focus, the book description from amazon on this latter one does get at the immediacy of finding a way to live that adds instead of subtracting:

The greatest humanitarian challenge we face today is that of providing shelter. Currently one in seven people lives in a slum or refugee camp, and more than 3,000,000,000 people--nearly half the world's population--do not have access to clean water or adequate sanitation. The physical design of our homes, neighborhoods and communities shapes every aspect of our lives.

My brother in aims, Richard Austin, runs this thing called the Institute for Planetary Renewal which is also based on this Fullerene better living through design idea...which, naturally, comes from understanding the patterns of energy in Nature.

Pythagoras with a pipe, not the bomb that the elite have made from his powders.

I've got nothing against your path, Drew; I'd just prefer to approach that goal from another angle. Ask Sounder. He knows the Joys of Carpentry.

8/27/2007 04:07:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This afternoon I was in FULL LOTUS (one possible anagram being "f.u. slut, l.o.l.") when the scales suddenly dropped from my eyes, and I felt a whole lot lighter.

"I can see!" I shouted. "I can finally see!"

Well, you get the picture. Let it go, man. It's only the takeover of democracy by a totalitarian government. Let it go

8/27/2007 05:27:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Real music isn't geometry. Music is based on the empirical truth of natural overtones. This overtone truth is validated by logical inference -- which, as Godel details, is more powerful than all technology.

Godel states: That's the power of logic.

Gurdjieff emphasizes that Western alchemy trys to just sublimate sexual energy (through technology) without understanding the logic of self-remembrance (the source of the I-thought).

Gurdjieff details that for this reason western alchemy will never work.

It's important to approach Gurdjieff with a proper understanding of natural overtone harmonics, using asymmetry.

For example probably the most important statement by Gurdjieff is easily misunderstood:

"But, in this connection, it must be remembered that 'intelligence' is determined not by the density of matter but by the density of vibrations. The density of vibrations, however increases not by doubling as in the octaves of 'hydrogens' but in an entirely different progression which many times out numbers the first. If you know the exact coefficient of this increase you will be in a position to solve this problem." (p. 320, In Search of the Miraculous).

So first of all Gurdjieff doesn't tell us the answer. Secondly he states that it's a "coefficient."

In fact the law of Three is based on asymmetric resonance while "coefficient" uses symmetric logarithms.

So as usual Gurdjieff has presented a mystery that is solved by the Law of Three detailed in "Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality" trans. by Charles Luk.

Three steps: simple tai chi. Small universe practice (guided by $3 tape from http://springforestqigong.com clearance).

Then after the energy channels open it's full-lotus bliss spacetime travel.

Have fun.

8/27/2007 09:24:00 PM  
Blogger ericswan said...

There is a reason why Gurdijeff doesn't or won't answer the hard questions. Something to do with lifting the veil sort of what lotus will do without languaging but again, won't do because the final realization is that time travel is evil.

8/27/2007 11:43:00 PM  
Blogger Sounder said...

It does seem important for health that we keep our energy centers open and flowing. Qigong is a technique or form that points toward this substantive truth. My problem with all forms both eastern and western, is their susceptibility to being co-opted by negative polarity expressions. (The evidence is in the outcomes.) We all find our own ways toward growth, and that is as it should be. Resistance is an important part of the struggle, and different tools may be appropriate in different hands for breaking down the walls.

For my part, I will search for expressions of understanding that, first off, are by their nature difficult to corrupt. When found (explicated), current forms will be subsumed within this larger form. Qigong will become a minor artifact, yet much more useful because it will no longer be tempted by the Luciferic impulse to transcend. But that is only my opinion.

Drew, loved that 2:43 post

8/28/2007 06:51:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We all find our own ways toward growth, and that is as it should be.

Wrong. Some people don't even bother, or attempt to grow...instead they stagnate and atrophy. Other's grow involuntarily, via circumstances beyond their own control. Still, others who think they are growing, and have actively sought to do so, can in fact regress as the result of choosing the wrong path for growth. Finally, there may be no such thing as growth....it is merely yet another human construct employed to maintain our sanity in a system that is, for all intents and purposes, insane.

8/28/2007 07:47:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Also, I must say, you guys are so close to the solution, you can smell it.

Tell me when and how you plan on rolling it out to The Masses.....oh, what's that I hear...you have no intention of doing so.....it's up to The Masses to find The Light.

Right (as Moses used to say)!!!!

8/28/2007 07:50:00 AM  
Blogger muddy elephant said...

It is rather interesting that the comments here have drifted into East Asian metaphysics and Buddhism.

"By eliminating disturbances we redouble the disease."

--Cho Setsu (quoted by Master Dogen)


I would just like to say that I think you have shown a most eminently sane approach to the difficulties our species is facing. You continue to inspire me.

8/28/2007 07:55:00 AM  
Blogger ericswan said...

Shrub..Are you a cherry picker? The solutions to all of the world's problems won't sound good to anybody when you base them in the reality we are faced with. I posted a couple of thoughts based on a couple of Christian concepts without using their Christian origins which are "render onto Ceasar.." and "Love your neighbour". When I suggested that 99% of the population had to make due with 10% of the wealth, I was basing that on royalties. Our respective governments take a royalty on all natural resources and the law says we can take that royalty in "cash or kind". We should take it in "kind".

When I said "Love your neighbour" I was suggesting a layer of interaction that is presently non-functioning. Before you can love your neighbour, you have to at least know their names. I suggested we interface neighbourhoods to resolve conflicts and meet our basic needs. Terraforming the "neighbourhood" using the hard earned goods and services in a "giving" network of neighbours. The interface I suggested was networking neighbours with an "intranet" communication system. Sharing fruit from fruit trees, planting the best boulevards with the most sun or best soil with gardens, recycling offcast clothing.

The old axiom, "Charity begins at home" will solve many of our problems. We ignore our neighbours at our own peril. Belongingness will break down the racial barriers. Religious beliefs "corporatize" our community. They divide and conquer us. We need to solve problems based on helping hands. When the crunch comes the abode that IC is so important will be our prison if we don't resolve the problem of our next door neighbours inability to feed that flock of children.

8/28/2007 08:18:00 AM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...


Yes!, yes, and thanks! At the root of every trite truism is a profound truth which too often dies the ignoble death of obscurification. Just plopping ecotectural paradisios down on the huddled masses & befuddled consumers wouldn’t address the discumbobulation of our rootless isolation; new plagues would just rise up, sure as shootin’. Even though the map is not (normally) the territory, the journey really is the destination in this case.

You see, it’s the building of each other’s nests that breaks down the old, serially produced walls & divisions. Community is key, in an as-above-so-below kind of way. Roger Dean talks about his research into the aesthetics of interior spaces, largely from interviews with children, whose perceptions haven’t yet been hemmed in by those false categories that Sounder chases with his clear eraser.

Just as some physical qualities inspire fear, hopelessness & isolation, so too do the golden (“flowing,” curvilinear) spaces bring comfort, strength and openness. This is what happens to the individual psyche inside of one home, however. The more amazing thing is when the synergy of the whole village exceeds the separate energies of the each home. (What's the frequency of the syntropy bell, Drew?)

You do know your neighbors when you build each other’s houses, work together in the village gardens, workshops, schools, theaters…spiritual spaces. My whole point, all along, has been that you can approach the ineffable through the quotidian; to compartmentalize “material” and “spiritual” is to engage in orgies of irrelevance.

There are parts of Dean’s vision that really appeal to me, obviously, but he’s not my guru, either. For one thing, he doesn’t quite go far enough. Sure, he talks about habitat fitting in seamlessly with the environment, even to the point of describing the process of “healing after construction,” and he’s got this wonderful appreciation for the aesthetics of biomorphic, “organic” architecture and the social glue that binds communities together, but he still stops short of re-imagining money, the alchemical agent which creates hierarchies instead of communities. It will poison every well if not itself transmuted into something else…or eliminated altogether.

I don’t say this about Dean as an accusation but as an inevitable observation. If you go to his Architecture page and read all the good stuff there about the Willowater project, stuff like what I’ve described and this:

"The village style community we propose to create will be a highly inspirational neighbourhood, a role model for community building. It will effectively address many of the critical issues sometimes overlooked; issues such as security, communications, the environment, sustainability, practicality, children and the less abled, spiritual amenities and materials."

All seems well…until he starts talking about the villagers going outside the village to their day jobs: hobbits into wage slaves the minute they climb into their fookin’ cars.

There will be work, all kinds of work: meaningful, value-producing, community & environment enhancing work (how many forest universities will we need to accommodate 6 billion people with the choice to attend, if they so choose?), but not the sorts of “jobs” we now have. We’re talking beyond sustainability here…into responsible abundance, that unknown territory only glimpsed obliquely by our farthest-foraying imagineers.

This is where all the communes ever dreamt fell apart. Even if they survived the attacks of the Existing World Order from which no experiment has ever been immune and the short-sightedness of their own ideologies, they never achieved both freedom from want—true self-sufficiency—and freedom from…the fear of freedom.

Anarchy is such a dirty word.

That’s why autonomy for the masses is so dangerous to those enjoy the privilege of privilege. Everyone’s better off with a strong Leader looking out for them, right? And a strong national defense, naturally. A robust economy and a free market~~~

~~~sorry, I had to reach for my bucket.

One area of Dean’s imaginarium I haven’t yet explored is the movie he’s making with Yes called Floating Islands, if anyone’s interested. Maybe he transcends his monetary limitations in it, although it appears to be some sort of Good v. Evil saga, as if we hadn’t yet seen enough of those. (Not all transcendences are to avoided, you know, Sounder.)

One designer who has an even deeper vision than friend Dean is Eugene Tsui, whom I've mentioned before, but I'm running out of ink. Here's a good link for the curious.

8/28/2007 01:51:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here -- listen to the free Chunyi Lin radio interviews -- qigong masters are real and we all can learn how to find the wave-form of consciousness (beyond frequency and amplitude).


8/28/2007 02:26:00 PM  
Blogger Sounder said...

Well shrub, when I said that we “find our own way towards growth”, my intention was that it be a fairly open sentiment. As you may well know, if you read my material; my general opinion is that indeed people do not ‘grow’ much. However, this may well be considered as an artifact of the current meta-model rather than a limitation of the potential within consciousness.

Nonetheless, bravo shrub, you made me ‘back up’; -good work.

And certainly IC, if the ‘transcendence’ results from an organic expression, no problem, but we don’t want to Imminentize the Eschaton do we?

8/28/2007 04:21:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

No, we certainly do not--all those little Hitlers rising out of the cold lake are enough to make the skin crawl (if you're familiar with the image...) I'm interested in that "organic" designation you assign to the healthy transcendence, and I think I know what you mean by it, too. You might be interested in that Eugene Tsui link, Sounder. He seems to have found sound 'jumping off' points. I'm going to try your frequencies, too, Drew, as I was quite serious about broadcasting counter ELF messages earlier in this ramblesome discussion.

8/28/2007 07:14:00 PM  
Blogger drumbo said...


"How seriously do we need to take the idea that our whole society and civilization is under the possession of such a spirit, worshiped through money and power?"

>How seriously? Stupid questions >need not be taken at all seriously.

Why is it that the self-proclaimed rationalists, the experts in the use of logic, reason and scientific method, are so averse to demonstrating these talents in debate? No considered rebuttals, no metaphysical nuance, no exploration of the psychological dimensions? No, the topic is not worthy of anything more than irascible dismissal, as if even thinking about such things is a criminal waste of time, every second of which obviously should be spent applying the scientific method.

Whatever you may think of Rupert Sheldrake's theories it is always disappointing to hear him described as "stupid" or "kooky" or "ga-ga" or the thousand other slurs that are the automatic lot of the scientist/heretic. His writings are intelligent and lucid. He understands and rigourously applies the scientific method - necessarily, as research in such areas is prone to much more strict peer scrutiny than is normally practiced in, say, research into pharmaceuticals. Of course, none of this is of any concern to the rationalist; the simplest explanation, regularly invoked in the face of all evidence, is that the paranormal researcher is either a fraud or insane.

>>How much are fallen angels actually guiding and perverting the progress of science and technology?"

> Angels don't exist.

>>Is a great war between the good and evil angels being acted out on Earth?"


It is clear that such answers are based on one fact and one fact alone: you do not believe in the existence of angels. That is the value of your information: your opinion on something you have no experience of. So therefore we need not take this as mankind's final word on the subject. This will no doubt be dismissed as tiresome metaphysical nit-picking, yet there is an important point to be made. It is one thing to offer an opinion, quite another to proclaim total certainty. I personally do not care whether angels exist or not, unless one were to take a personal interest in me, but I do not consider myself qualified to decree once and for all that they do not exist.

This is a general problem with scientific believers (as opposed to the scientifically trained - another species altogether ). Hostile to metaphysical thought due to its unsavoury associations with mysticism, superstition, religion and all the other pre-enlightenment heresies, they nontheless feel qualified to enter the metaphysical arena, usually with the grace of a half-blinded bull, to issue blunt edicts such as the one above. Further discussion is neither necessary nor productive; the scientific consensus (a nebulous and unstable entity in itself) is the ultimate authority on such matters - if angels cannot exist, they do not exist. What an angel may be, or what existence may be, are questions decided long ago and not subject to revision. Although this all starts to resemble the dogma of the christian church at the height of its power, fear not: the scientist is as impersonal and egalitarian an individual as ever walked the earth in his selfless search for the truth. For the scientist, any concomitant material rewards/career opportunities are mere distractions, trifles, irrelevances. If the sum of man's scientific knowledge lacks, say, a deeper understanding of the dynamics of miniature plutonium fission weapons, then it is the heroic and selfless duty of the scientist to attempt to fill that yawning gap. Thus we can trust the product of the scientific method as being as close to the pure truth as it is possible to be. What rational being could not ally themselves with this great crusade?

>>We hardly know how to think or talk about such possibilities since they are so alien to the official, standard models of Western history."

>Religious dogma is indeed alien to scientific understanding. This should hardly come as a surprise.

Implicit as ever in the scientific rationalists contempt for religious dogma are these naïve beliefs:

(1) nothing in the realm of scientific knowledge is itself a matter of faith or belief. All is certainty, even if the only certainty is that someone else is certain.
(2) There is no scientific dogma, nor are scientists ever dogmatic. Flexible and open, they will readily modify their models given convincing evidence, whatever it may be.
(3) Religious thought contains no information of any use to anyone, including those areas concerning ethics, society, relationships, happiness etc. Science tells us all we need to know about such “soft” categories of human knowledge. For example, Love is a particular combination of neuro-transmitters and brain activity, measured by electro-encephalograph, CMRI and samples of spinal fluid. Or if we prefer, we can assign scientific respectability to metaphysical speculations such as psychology.

> This has been another episode of quick answers to stupid fucking questions. Thank you.

The tendency of the lay ( or otherwise ) scientific rationalist to become flustered, annoyed or furious when faced with yet more idiotic peasant superstition may have more to do with a nagging feeling that they are stood on very shaky and uncertain ground – hence the compensatory aggression, an attempt to steamroller the point home by sheer force of personality. A tactic Archbishop Dawkins himself has done much to popularise.

8/29/2007 01:25:00 PM  
Blogger Sounder said...

Thanks drumbo, well written and nice style.

9/05/2007 05:02:00 PM  
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