Friday, October 12, 2007

Blow'd Up Real Good (Part Two)

What can you see?
from Antonioni's Blow Up

I must be something of a disappointment as a conspiracy theorist, because I don't know what the fuck is going on.

I mean, I have an inkling. Like David Hemmings in Blow Up, the closer I look the worse things appear, and it doesn't take a Dante to know that everything is going to Hell. Though perhaps it takes a Nostradamus to believe we know how, and when, because maybe he just made shit up, too.

The End has been a long time coming and its anticipation has been with us from the beginning, so perhaps abductees and channelers and psychonauts have been on strangely familiar ground when entities and "spirit guides" and the chemistry of nature have reportedly told them that "Earth time is desperately short" (as Arthur Shuttlewood related he was told, in his Warnings from Flying Friends.)

Albert Bender, arguably the first "Men in Black" contactees, was warned of a pole-shift due in 1953. Knud Weiking, supposed voice of "Orthon," claimed he'd been told there would be a nuclear holocaust on Christmas Eve, 1967. Alarms raised of the Earth's imminent incineration, flood, or "cleansing" are not just facts of the fringe, but also of mainline contactee religions. (As virtually every religion is.) Perhaps one example is the closely guarded and apocalyptic "Third Secret" of Fatima, which the "Beautiful Lady" shared with her three young contactees.

It's a game tricksters play, whether human or not quite so, as John Keel experienced during the Mothman flap. He was warned of a catastrophic plane crash by an "Asian-looking character" calling himself Apol, seated in the back of a black Cadillac. He went on to say the Pope would soon be assassinated, followed by three days of darkness and worldwide power failure. There were many other warnings from other strange sources and allegedly channeled spirits that something dreadful was about to happen, but none which pointed unambiguously to the dreadful thing which did, except perhaps for a lucid dream Keel was told six weeks earlier by a Point Pleasant resident of "a lot of people drowning in the river and Christmas packages floating everywhere in the water." For the most part, wrote Keel, the "contactees would be manipulated, used as robots to propagate beliefs and false frames of reference, and then be discarded to sit in the darkness and wonder why the world was not as they had imagined it."

Does this trade in fear and false prophecy sound familiar? Or maybe rather, does it feel familiar, because it's not something I've often heard discussed.

Fritz Springmeier, the "Christian Identity" white supremacist, convicted bank robber and victim-triggering expert in "Illuminati mind control," published in a mid-90s newsletter that "The leadership in both Russia and the U.S. are preparing for war. From 8:00A.M. to 6:00P.M. on June 6, 1996 the proper alignments will occur to detonate numerous nuclear devices." Then in 1999, he wrote "Over two weeks ago, this author was given inside information that the New World Order had pulled all their key people -- specialists, and so forth out of San Diego, CA. These people were given a secret high-level briefing which told them to leave San Diego by April 3 [1999] and that their reason to leave was that Russia was going to drop nuclear bombs on San Diego, Seattle, NYC...."

On his October 18, 2001 broadcast, Alex Jones said "Within 2 years I'm predicting...that you're going to see a suitcase nuke in this country. You're probably going to see a release in a few years of something communicable. And I am predicting that you will see a lot of conventional bombings in the next year or so." In March 2005 he predicted Arnold Schwarzenegger would "save children at a school shooting, or there'll be some type of bombing, and he will land by helicopter and run in and direct things. I predict it - I see it all aligning. I see it all coming together. I see their plan, clear as day." More soberly, on August 10, 2006 he announced "There is a 90% chance we are gonna see bone-shattering mega-attacks in the United States, Canada, or England or Israel in the next couple months - by mid-October. We're talking about the total end of America, total martial law. I am predicting you will have huge terrorist attacks in the Western world by, at the latest, late October."

More recently, last August, there was the so-called Kennbunkport Warning issued by Webster Tarpley, alleging "massive evidence" for a "new 9/11 terror incident...over the coming weeks and months." A number of its signatories, including Cindy Sheehan and Cynthia McKinney, have since claimed their endorsements were forged and their support for its claims misrepresented, while critical readers of the Statement have been labeled "divisive" and "COINTELPRO" by Tarpley and his supporters.

I've been guilty of it, too. I've been suckered by channeled "insiders" who predicted the other shoe was about to drop. I don't want to be again. Conspiracy research is not a prophetic art. We can see clearly enough to make out the broad strokes on the big canvas, and we can tell it's not going to be a pretty picture, but we're kidding ourselves - actually, entertaining ourselves - if we believe we know how it's all going to turn out. Or that some Unnamed Other is going to come along and tell us, rather than trick us.

Fixing dates for the end of the world and bouncing with goosebumps from one fabricated scenario to the next is imposing a false narrative upon a story that has yet to be told. And the temptation is great, in part because many of the plot points are whispered suggestions of the storyteller who'll never tell us the whole story, but simply means to give us a good fright. This seems to hold, whether the story is Springmeier's "insider's" or Shuttlewood's "flying friend's."

It's a perverse fact of the conspiracy industry that it incubates credulity within those who claim to "Question Everything." But that's the nature of industry, to nurture its market, and the nature of conspiracy, to place every honest and dangerous inquiry into disrepute.

What can you see now?


Blogger Warren said...

Jeff, I've enjoyed reading your articles for a long time. I don't always agree but often I do and often I'm left with questions similar to yours. You don't seem the religious sort but then most who are 'religious' turn off those that are seeking answers. Often times though, I find the answer to your questions in the Bible. I actually believe it's true. Now that my kook status is confirmed. Please look up Ezekiel 38 and 39. Newer translations use familiar names but old translations use words most are not familiar with. It basically lists a group of nations that will align against Israel and attempt to attack her. For quite some time Turkey was on the list but smarter folks than I were concerned that they are our allies and it didn't seem likely that would change any time soon. Well, I'm sure you noticed that the Turkish Ambassador to the US has been called home because the US has denounced some atrocities which happened years ago. Naturally, this has engendered much love for the US in the Turkish population. If the relationship with the west further deteriorates Turkey will finally be in a place where that prophetical alliance is not only possible but probable. How a 2500 year old prophecy is working itself out right before our eyes, to me, is amazing.

It isn't only the gurus that are getting the 'time is short' message. Christians (real ones, not the ones you see on TV begging for money) are getting that message to, although from a different source. Jesus said that when you begin to see these signs come to pass look up for your redemption is near which also implies that the final age of mankind will begin soon as well.

Another thought has occurred to me but I'll cut it off for now.

10/12/2007 03:56:00 PM  
Blogger Warren said...

My thoughts continued.

I was reading an e-book that was discussing the new age. In it there was a conversation between Bailey (I think) and her spiritual guide. The 'guide' explained to her that he would expel the unbelievers from the earth. When I read this I got a bit of a chill. Why? Well, as I'm sure you know there are many that believe that they will be raptured from the earth.

So, depending on which side of the fence you are standing there will be either a rapture or an expulsion of Christians from the earth. From my stance it appears that Satan will take credit for Gods work and many will believe him.

It is interesting to note that much of what 'spirit guides' are telling people is a corruption (again, from my perspective) of things that the Bible says. Why do you suppose that is?

10/12/2007 04:09:00 PM  
Blogger Computo aka Compute Oh said...

Thanks Jeff, best post in a long while.

I am particularly glad to see mention of the Kennebunkport Warning fiasco, that has seemingly confounded and disintegrated the entire community.

Tarpley and his cadre of fanatical cling-ons have really achieved exactly what any intel agency would desire, when infiltrating a movement to poison it from the inside.

The tacit approval of Tarpley's position, by Alex Jones and others, really serves to exacerbate the problem, also.

I can't speak to the legitimacy of all of the people who Tarpley et al claim to be COINTELpro, but I know a few of them, and the absurdity of the claims really hit home.

The most telling point, was the suggestion that these people are paid or supported by some sort of intel program. Directed at someone like Cosmos, this kind of accusation stretches the credibility of the one making it.

Thanks for putting the situation into the larger context, Im always telling people, that every generation has thought the world would end in their lifetime.

What makes us so special?

10/12/2007 04:29:00 PM  
Blogger Aaron said...

Warren, the bible also says that no one knows when Jesus will return, not even him. I think it's a good thought to keep in mind and I've started to wonder if the more we hear that the end is nigh, the less chance there is of that actually being the case. Especially as there are so many mere mortals trying to make it happen.

I'm not a believer as such but can you imagine God being happy to have the timing of the end times being determined by the Neocons?

To extrapolate this theory further I'd have to say that 2012 is going to be a very safe and peaceful year that will prove to be a let down for a great many people. 1st January 2013 on the other hand could be a whole nother deal :-)

10/12/2007 04:43:00 PM  
Blogger FilmNoir23 said...

Your use of "Blow-Up" is quite brilliant. There is a rather interesting Masonic/mind-control element that runs through that film which is unsettling.

In much the same unsettling manner which we are currently living our lives

10/12/2007 04:49:00 PM  
Blogger Warren said...

Aaron, Nope, I can't imagine His pleasure at being even associated with Neocons. They have taken the name of Jesus and drug it through the mud; I don't think that pleases Him at all. And please don't think that I think of myself as an expert on prophecy. I just read a lot, much like you guys.

In any case, I make no claims to know when the end will be I just find it super curious to see so many of the required items in place for the prophecies to be fulfilled.

On prophecy. In the Bible it states that you will know a prophet by only one thing: all of his prophecies will come to pass. Alex should probably hold off on making too many more prophecies. Am, I the only one finding him increasingly militaristic?

We definitely live in interesting times.

10/12/2007 04:52:00 PM  
Blogger Arabesque said...

Read my review of the Kennebunkport Warning controversy here:

The Kennebunkport Warning Controversy Reviewed

10/12/2007 04:59:00 PM  
Blogger Dale said...

The size of the lie is a definite factor in causing it to be believed, because the vast masses of a nation are in the depths of their hearts more easily deceived than they are consciously and intentionally bad.

The primitive simplicity of their minds renders them more easy victims of a big lie than a small one, because they themselves often tell little lies but would be ashamed to tell big ones.

Such a form of lying would never enter their heads. They would never credit others with the possibility of such great impudence as the complete reversal of facts. Even explanations would long leave them in doubt and hesitation, and any trifling reason would dispose them to accept a thing as true.

Something therefore always remains and sticks from the most imprudent of lies, a fact which all bodies and individuals concerned in the art of lying in this world know only too well, and therefore they stop at nothing to achieve this end.

~ Adolph Hitler, Mein Kampf

10/12/2007 05:01:00 PM  
Blogger muddy elephant said...

Dale, your quote is quite chilling... Thanks, I think.

Here's an oldie but a goodie from recent Nobel prize winner for literature Doris Lessing:

"Yes, I do believe it is possible, and not only for novelists, to 'plug in' to an overmind, or Ur-mind, or unconscious, or what you will, and that this accounts for a great many improbabilities and 'coincidences.' "

10/12/2007 06:54:00 PM  
Blogger muddy elephant said...

Jeff, thanks as always for expressing your mind.

You do make the world a better place.

10/12/2007 07:02:00 PM  
Blogger ericswan said...

Must be something in the water or is that in the chemtrails.

Jeff... I would accuse you of plagiarizing the above blog if it wasn't so synchronously you being you in lockstep over the bridge and down the razor's edge.

As for me being me, I don't know what Cointelpro means. Sure, I've heard it, read it, ate it, threw it up but it won't sink in.

I will just say that tomorrow is the 700th anniversary and it will be marked in some way

10/12/2007 08:20:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Prey to St. Francis

10/12/2007 09:38:00 PM  
Blogger PeterofLoneTree said...

From Alternet:
"The talk of sea level rise should not be in centuries, it should be decades or perhaps even single years. And coastal regions like New York and Florida are in the front line for devastation.
"It is hard to shock journalists and at the same time leave them in awe of the power of nature. A group returning from a helicopter trip flying over, then landing on, the Greenland ice cap at the time of maximum ice melt last month were shaken. One shrugged and said:"It is too late already."

Entire article at

10/12/2007 10:10:00 PM  
Blogger messianicdruid said...

I think the wind was out of the southeast.

Warren might be the only one interested here, but there is a good discussion of the so-called "Russian Chapters of Ezekiel" at:

Mark 13:32 is time sensitive. When Jesus said this no one knew, but the Father. Doesn't mean no one else would ever know. Consider the parable of the ten virgins. The watchman told them to go out and meet him, apparently the watchman knew.

Right now it's time to be trimming your candles and make sure there is oil in your lamps.

10/12/2007 10:17:00 PM  
Blogger PeterofLoneTree said...

10/12/2007 10:18:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yeah Jeff this is probably your best blog post I've read! Having visions of the future is not a very good skill in the West because we rely on left-brain syntax as "progress" but shamanistic cultures do hone this skill to an art.

In my own experience in 1995 I had a dream that was more vivid than being awake. I immediately wrote it in my journal, around 2:30 a.m., that my dream of my activist friends, with Native Americans, standing on the roof of a house to protest against the destruction of a wooded area WOULD COME TRUE.

Then in 1998, long after I had forgotten my journal entry, while staring at a photocopy of a photo of the above dream -- to a detail -- only from a newspaper -- I just had a strange sensation but no conscious recognition. Then I "decide" to visit my parents the next day and for ostensibly nostalgic reasons, start paging through my old journal from three years. Whammo, I stumble across my dream prediction and amazed that it happened just as reported in the newspaper.

Most visions of the future happen just like that -- dreams which seem more vivid than real. After enough experience of what I call "glitches in the Matrix" then when the vision occurs, whether in meditation or during sleep, then an understanding of its portent begins to emerge.

Usually these visions of the future are of more emotionally intense encounters -- that girl seeing me and spontaneously being inspired into a classical dance display. My sister's 40th birthday party in a fancy restaurant. My other sister's new house and woods across the country. My new living space for the past five years.

Those are a few examples of visions of the future I've had that I didn't quite realize would happen but when they did I was able to process the "present" more easily since I knew it was another "glitch in the Matrix."

10/13/2007 06:55:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's funny I just went to read (at my parent's). The overhead light didn't work so I had to detach the cover from the hanging fixture to try a new bulb. Still no go and my dad reports: It's a very complicated thing and he had to rewire it and to wait till later.

So I then take my book, "randomly" open it, and immediately read the following from Amir D. Aczel's "The Riddle of the Compass":

"Motzo hypothesized that Etruscan mystical practices were linked with the use of a magnetic device, and that this device together with the sixteen points used in divination led to the construction of a magnetic compass. But the theory that sixteen points of the horizon....needed an actual find.... The chandelier is fashioned from a large, circular piece of bronze, weighing 130 pounds. In its center is a gorgon surrounded by sixteen figures: eight ithyphallic satyrs alternating with eight sirens. ...Motzo and other scholars have suggested that the sixteen figures, viewed from below, represent a sixteen-point system of diving the horizon -- the same system used in modern navigation." (pp. 47-8)

Oh course the overhead lamp is complicated -- it predicts the future! haha.

10/13/2007 07:27:00 AM  
Blogger Brainpanhandler said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

10/13/2007 08:18:00 AM  
Blogger Brainpanhandler said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

10/13/2007 09:11:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Which Future???

Or, better yet, what future??

10/13/2007 10:04:00 AM  
Blogger Mark said...

In all respect to Jeff's agnoticism, when the silver lining glints at you, you should notice. Particularly a 700 year old glint. This is in regard though to what Eric presciently said. Here it is, Eric.

Eric said:

"I will just say that tomorrow is the 700th anniversary and it will be marked in some way..

I presume you mean in anniversary of this...

Bingo, Eric.

BPH said:

Many such faux releases abound all around us,...

At least this one ain't faux. You might have to blink a couple of times before it sinks in on the "Alta Vendita" implications?


Vatican Prints Secrets of Knights Templar
By Philip Pullella,
Posted: 2007-10-13 00:08:04
Filed Under: World News

VATICAN CITY (Oct. 12) - The Knights Templar, the medieval Christian
military order accused of heresy and sexual misconduct, will soon be
partly rehabilitated when the Vatican publishes trial documents it had
closely guarded for 700 years.

A reproduction of the minutes of trials against the Templars,
"'Processus Contra Templarios -- Papal Inquiry into the Trial of the
Templars"' is a massive work and much more than a book -- with a
$8,333 price tag.

"This is a milestone because it is the first time that these documents
are being released by the Vatican, which gives a stamp of authority to
the entire project," said Professor Barbara Frale, a medievalist at
the Vatican's Secret Archives.

"Nothing before this offered scholars original documents of the trials
of the Templars," she told Reuters in a telephone interview ahead of
the official presentation of the work on October 25.

The epic comes in a soft leather case that includes a large-format
book including scholarly commentary, reproductions of original
parchments in Latin, and -- to tantalize Templar buffs -- replicas of
the wax seals used by 14th-century Inquisitors.

Reuters was given an advance preview of the work, of which only 799
numbered copies have been made.

One parchment measuring about half a meter wide by some two meters
long is so detailed that it includes reproductions of stains and
imperfections seen on the originals.

Pope Benedict will be given the first set of the work, published by
the Vatican Secret Archives in collaboration with Italy's Scrinium
cultural foundation, which acted as curator and will have exclusive
world distribution rights.

The Templars, whose full name was "Poor Fellow-Soldiers of Christ and
of the Temple of Solomon," were founded in 1119 by knights sworn to
protecting Christian pilgrims visiting the Holy Land after the
Crusaders captured Jerusalem in 1099.

They amassed enormous wealth and helped finance wars of some European
monarchs. Legends of their hidden treasures, secret rituals and power
have figured over the years in films and bestsellers such as "The Da
Vinci Code."

The Knights have also been portrayed as guardians of the legendary
Holy Grail, the cup used by Christ at the Last Supper before his

The Vatican expects most copies of the work to be bought up by
specialized libraries at top universities and by leading medieval

Burned at the Stake

The Templars went into decline after Muslims re-conquered the Holy
Land at the end of the 13th century and were accused of heresy by King
Philip IV of France, their foremost persecutor. Their alleged offences
included denying Christ and secretly worshipping idols.

The most titillating part of the documents is the so-called Chinon
Parchment, which contains phrases in which Pope Clement V absolves the
Templars of charges of heresy, which had been the backbone of King
Philip's attempts to eliminate them.

Templars were burned at the stake for heresy by King Philip's agents
after they made confessions that most historians believe were given
under duress.

The parchment, also known as the Chinon Chart, was "misplaced" in the
Vatican archives until 2001, when Frale stumbled across it.

"The parchment was catalogued incorrectly at some point in history. At
first I couldn't believe my eyes. I was incredulous," she said.

"This was the document that a lot of historians were looking for," the
37-year-old scholar said.

Philip was heavily indebted to the Templars, who had helped him
finance his wars, and getting rid of them was a convenient way of
cancelling his debts, some historians say.

Frale said Pope Clement was convinced that while the Templars had
committed some grave sins, they were not heretics.

Spitting on the Cross

Their initiation ceremony is believed to have included spitting on the
cross, but Frale said they justified this as a ritual of obedience in
preparation for possible capture by Muslims. They were also said to
have practiced sodomy.

"Simply put, the pope recognized that they were not heretics but
guilty of many other minor crimes -- such as abuses, violence and
sinful acts within the order," she said. "But that is not the same as

Despite his conviction that the Templars were not guilty of heresy, in
1312 Pope Clement ordered the Templars disbanded for what Frale called
"the good of the Church" following his repeated clashes with the
French king.

Frale depicted the trials against the Templars between 1307 and 1312
as a battle of political wills between Clement and Philip, and said
the document means Clement's position has to be reappraised by

"This will allow anyone to see what is actually in documents like
these and deflate legends that are in vogue these days," she said.

Rosi Fontana, who has helped the Vatican coordinate the project, said:
"The most incredible thing is that 700 years have passed and people
are still fascinated by all of this."

"The precise reproduction of the parchments will allow scholars to
study them, touch them, admire them as if they were dealing with the
real thing," Fontana said.

"But even better, it means the originals will not deteriorate as fast
as they would if they were constantly being viewed," she said.

Copyright 2007 Reuters Limited.

Jacque de Molay is avenged indeed. They 'own' the Vatican now?

Alta Vendita and all that..

10/13/2007 10:29:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


I don't give a shit about the Vatican, Pope Bent Dick and The Knights Templar. With my Ronco Vibe Machine and Organite Grinder, my defenses are impenetrable.

Thanks to Mr. Popeil, The Future's Open Wide.

10/13/2007 11:57:00 AM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

I must be something of a disappointment as a conspiracy theorist, because I don't know what the fuck is going on.

I mean, I have an inkling. Like David Hemmings in Blow Up, the closer I look the worse things appear, and it doesn't take a Dante to know that everything is going to Hell. Though perhaps it takes a Nostradamus to believe we know how, and when, because maybe he just made shit up, too.

So…why waste ink and everyone’s time talking about shit that’s made up?

The conspiracy theory industry is a scam; its "truths" don’t qualify for Hitler’s definition of a Big Lie (even when they are true). It’s entertainment and distraction, the purpose of which is (as you so far down the post finally add, almost in contradiction to what you spent the entire post talking about) “to place every honest and dangerous inquiry into disrepute.”

If that’s so, then why are we reading so much about Jones, Springmeier, Tarpley and the other neo-Nostradamans who are making money off sensationalist crap that is not the Big Lie?

The Reichstag fire was not TBL; nor was 9/11 or any of the other incidents. Pretexts, excuses, rationales for unconscionable behavior, fine, but these things are not the Lie themselves.

This is where I have my most serious objection to CT and its infonautical explorers. When you say, “I mean, I have an inkling…it doesn't take a Dante to know that everything is going to Hell,” it implies that this would be a deviation from where we’ve already been. Like Alex Jones and the ardent Truthers (and the Ron Paul followers and “patriots” of every stripe) saying, “If only we could restore the Constitution,” and “If only the market were truly free,” this is a perpetuation of the Lie, not an earth-shaking revelation.

Inkling? Here’s the inkle that no freedom fighter touches: it’s all been a lie, a scam, and a swindle—from the moment that Cain (agriculture/scarcity) killed Abel (natural cycles of abundance), we’ve been pretending to be civilized while we’ve actually been engaging in the most brutal acts of slavery and murder in our long, embarrassing history.

Some of us point to 1947, the year of the National Security Act, as the breaking point. Others to Wilson’s duplicitous and carefully engineered entry into the Great War at the behest of DuPont & the profiteers…keep stretching. And, no, I’m not going to list the well-known litany of imperialist adventures (even though that Mexican-American War was really a sexy trendsetter in so many ways).

The point is that The Greatest Nation in the History of the World, the Shining City on the Hill—the emblem and greatest exemplar of freedom & democracy—has always been a nation of plutocrats and slaves (and the middle classes which play the role of patsy in the Swindle, of course.)

The Real Story is about who has what and why they get to have it. It’s behind every stupid phony story we tell ourselves and it’s the one thing we can’t ever address. When we talk about immigration, it’s always only “they’re taking our jobs and making our country unsafe” or “we can’t just deport those aliens—our economy depends on cheap labor doing jobs no real American would stoop to,” never “we’ve rigged the world so that the country which has 5% of the human race controls the living conditions of every other country on Earth.”


Well, yeah, it’s easier to inkle, more profitable to prophesy, more interesting to play the Tom & Jerry of: Secret Truths Revealed! and They’re a Bunch of Fruitcakes Spinning Tales for the Gullible.

The last bone of this contentious rant (sorry, Jeff—it was just a camel/straw thing—nothing personal) is that I’m saying it’s not “a perverse fact of the conspiracy industry that it incubates credulity within those who claim to "‘Question Everything,’" because the ringleaders in this particular circus do not "question everything." In fact, they only question the fluff, the sensational, and the irrelevant…not the ugly truth of how we justify our cruelty, our perversion of the very concepts of freedom and justice.

Bucky Fuller told the truth half a century ago—that every man, woman and child could enjoy a peaceful, rich existence without any harm to the earth (in fact, while healing it)—but he was dismissed as a utopian crank then…and as a "visionary too far ahead of his time" now.

Besides, that kind of truth doesn’t sell, does it?

(Jeff, I really don't mean this as some sort of insinuation or indictment of your integrity. Honestly. I just don't understand why even we have to follow the script. I know I've been offending a lot of people of late, so sorry in advance.)

10/13/2007 04:48:00 PM  
Blogger Dale said...

"I have made at worst some neat, precise and joyous little tales which prevaricate tenderly about the universe and veil the pettiness of human nature with screens of verbal jewelwork. It is not the actual world they tell about, but a vastly superior place where the Dream is realized and everything which in youth we knew was possible comes true. It is a world we have all glimpsed, just once, and have not ever entered, and have not ever forgotten. So people like my little tales. . . . Do they induce delusions? Oh, well, you must give people what they want, and literature is a vast bazaar where customers come to purchase everything except mirrors."

-James Branch Cabell from "The Certain Hour" (1916)

10/13/2007 05:28:00 PM  
Blogger Dream's End said...


People don't kill people,

Mystical, parallel-dimension, synchronistic coincidences kill people.

There is no hope. Humans cannot prevail against our overlord-controllers. (See, I HAVE been paying attention.)

I would suggest spending our remaining few years enjoying the earth before we have to give it back. Maybe take in a little sightseeing. I hear the stained glass windows in Chapel Perilous are dazzling. Hypnotic.

But for goodness sake, don't actually DO ANYTHING to head off the inevitable. Not only is resistance futile, but if you are stupid enough to exert effort in the real world, then the bad guys will come kill you with a boom boom bouquet. I read all about that. Scared the shit out of me, so I even canceled my subscription to Mother Jones. You can't be TOO CAREFUL!

Of course, if we all acted COLLECTIVELY rather than as isolated little islands of resistance, that might at least frustrate those little grey buggers before we all get the anal probes...

What am I saying? Paranoid delusions. I'm the most paranoid motherfucker in this place, and that's saying something.

Plus, anal probes don't really hurt that much anyway. If you're a first-timer, just ask Whitley to hold your hand during insertion.

Or dubbiedo.

Really, when it comes to getting transdimensionally fucked, you have a variety of options. Just lie back and enjoy it. You probably won't remember anything anyway.

10/13/2007 06:13:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

IC -- RAW called Buckyfuller a Solar Dynasty Dictator Avatar and that's my favorite statement from RAW. It's true! Why? Bucky would not get rid of the square root of two. Bucky still relied on symmetrical geometry -- he was a NeoPlatonist. Bucky claimed that hopefully down the road we could get rid of the square root of two but in fact Bucky did not grasp that the real secret of the Tetrahedron is the asymmetric resonance: 8 triangles of 2:3:4 resonating as 2:3 Yang and 3:4 Yin.

The reason this works is because of growth FROM WITHIN -- not externally constructed tetrahedrons. Pyramid power is part of the Solar Dynasty Freemasonic Imperialism -- whether it's the little secret pyramids used by the Mayan farmers (read "Secrets of the Soil") or Patrick Flanagan's razor-sharpening pyramid power of the 70s or the levitating rock Pyramid power of Andrew Collins.

The problem is the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle of asymmetry is translated back into logarithmic-based geometry (PI maybe "transcendental" but it's still a logarithmic series).

So water is a macro-quantum free-energy element but this measurement of water is just an increase in using it as a pivot for nanobiomotors (a la assimilation Schauberger's research). There's an amazing NASA water vapor vortex engine on Science Citation Index.

Richard Dawkin's can't wait to use BuckyBalls to create Nano-based silica-AI synthetic ecology as Dawkin's real Freemasonic-Deistic evolution model (just see his Cambridge conferences on synthetic ecology).

Of course we should be in AWE of his Nano-Kin. (what a Dick).

As Nandor Fodor stated:

NUMEN EST OMEN. Name is Fate.

Fodor is my favorite parapsychologist by far.

10/13/2007 07:16:00 PM  
Blogger wwwdotnet said...

Great post....


Put a fucking spoiler alert above it for fucks sake man !!!! it's wonderful, your use of imagery, and now moving image, but for Allah's sake, warn people that the clip you are streaming is the final beautiful end of the film. damn.

back tomorrow when i digest everything. hope all is well with everyone. xxx

10/13/2007 11:12:00 PM  
Blogger fletcher said...

With all the talk of Jesus and Freemasons and pyramids...I couldn't help but mention the layout of Washington DC, as a huge pentagram, the Owl etc...
So the neocons want to bring about the end of the world?
More likely, the end of civilization. Though for them it will be a Golden Age...they will be the ultimate "Haves". The rest will be left to wonder why no one stopped them.
Though to be fair, is our great civilization really worth saving??

10/13/2007 11:42:00 PM  
Blogger sfmike said...

Thanks, muddy elephant, for the Doris Lessing quote, and if ever their was a future-seeing Cassandra, it's our latest Nobel laureate. "The Four Gated City" from 1969 ends with the end of the world, essentially, happening right about now.

As for the Knights Templar, Masons, etc., I've just been a supernumerary slave AND priest in Mozart's "The Magic Flute" in San Francisco, which opened tonight. What the hell IS the secret society about? And could I have an agnostic explanation? Thanks, everyone.

10/14/2007 04:02:00 AM  
Blogger Mark said...

IC said:

"The last bone of this contentious rant (sorry, Jeff—it was just a camel/straw thing—nothing personal) is that I’m saying it’s not “a perverse fact of the conspiracy industry that it incubates credulity within those who claim to "‘Question Everything,’" because the ringleaders in this particular circus do not "question everything." In fact, they only question the fluff, the sensational, and the irrelevant…not the ugly truth of how we justify our cruelty, our perversion of the very concepts of freedom and justice."

Hear, Hear.

"Bucky Fuller told the truth half a century ago—that every man, woman and child could enjoy a peaceful, rich existence without any harm to the earth (in fact, while healing it)—but he was dismissed as a utopian crank then…and as a "visionary too far ahead of his time" now."...Besides, that kind of truth doesn’t sell, does it?

I think there are a lot more listening now. Planet Earth has a green majority. The contention over reclientelizing that greenness is what is going on right now.

The internet has been a huge consciousness-raising exercise. It has provided (at least for those individuals so inclined) encouragement to view multiple perspectives of thought from different positions in our vastly inequitable and contentious world. What has helped are trends in internet, educational, and common language capacities. Interesting short film of 8 minutes about that. Of course it's self-selecting for that use of the internet though it's a resource and social situation completely unavailable to all previous generations.

No wonder they have to invent without any proof the bogey-man of OBL (and hilariously attack an abstract noun ('terrorism')) instead of a real enemy anymore.

If you can keep in your mind that public, private, and secret issues are overlapping in the same actions (instead of the 'secret' always being out of sight), then the 'conspiracy literature' is insightful for elite shenanigans instead of (as Jeff implies) entirely a rabbit hole without end. For those who still want to read the conspiracy genre, regardless of who you think wrote the Iron Mountain text, it was indeed written. And, shock, some ideas in it can be documented.

I think Jeff is right to say beware the unattributed quality though alas, Jeff cherrypicked his examples and left out other examples where Alex Jones has been the only one to harp highly about issues highly documented though left unreported (like Project Northwoods, USS Liberty issues, etc., 9-11, etc.).

Mae Brussel always said look into all sorts of conspiritoria to round out your documentary perspective instead of relativism being the end of your search. Different viewpoints and data on the same events is the only possible corrective in any literature. This is particularly so in the conspiracy genre. However, BOTH conspiracy writings and 'artificially lobotomized non-conspiratorial writings' (like most textbooks) both come out of an activist and ideologue tradition.

IC said:

"(Jeff, I really don't mean this as some sort of insinuation or indictment of your integrity. Honestly. I just don't understand why even we have to follow the script....)"

Hear, Hear.

However, to defend the conspiracy literature and play devil's advocate for a moment:

1. I would say that the 'conspiracy literature' is useful for popularizing the breaking of that script however.

2. It helps people temper their naiveties about surface events to asking more pointed questions about what has been left out of any official perspectives that are just as real as anything else.

3. For me, it has helped me understand patterns in how people get screwed into supporting a world of consumer and ideological clientelism (by the way choices are effectively policed and removed), and how people are mass manipulated away from their 'real' interests (to use that 'dirty word' in a crowd of complete relativists perhaps) in long term sustainability.

4. The conspiracy literature is additionally a useful corrective for much historical narrative written by the winners, since much of the writings are written or penned by the also rans and the crushed groups under any hegemonic framework of power and clientelism, material and/or ideological.

5. For me, it helps to add my conspiracy readings to my research into the more publicly visible actions in history instead of pretend that conspiracy is all there is.

With these caveats, I thought this was a great post of Jeff's about what to beware of though it was not a really good post about the benefits of conspiracy literature.


As for 'Dream's End' comments, dont' worry, it touches IC's point to say that nothing humanly unsustainable has ever lasted however much hubris it had. TBTP know that whatever dimension you think they are coming from. (Nice long talk from Jared Diamond at the close of the link there about his book _Collapse (2005)). The real question when you look in the mirror should be whose script am I following out to the pre-determined conclusion?


Said above:

"What the hell IS the secret society about? And could I have an agnostic explanation? Thanks, everyone.

More like 'secret societies' plural.

A short answer is the importance left out in most historical writings of high level elites involved in steering societies for non-public, non-democratic goals through their public positions being utilized for covert purposes for themselves or their group alone.

A more complicated answer involves how external non-elite groups themselves plot to enter power through this manner of secret societies, in competition with elite groups. (Much of Chinese peasant secret society tradition was in this vein against totalitarian, patrimonial, managerial, Chinese dynasties from the Later Han onward. Early Christians were forced underground as secret societies as well. Their warrens in the Anatolian Goreme can still be viewed today a combination of underground bunker and Christian church.)

Some interesting short documentation that will turn your head on the early 1800s European 'revolutionary nationalist' tradition is in the (academic, shock!) book Violent Solutions: Revolutions, Nationalism, and Secret Societies in Europe to 1918.

Fire in the Minds of Men: The Origins of the Revolutionary Faith is one sided to looking only into the occult issues of revolutionary 'left wing' politics.

And why limit talk to Europe.

A large effect of Japanese imperialism came out of the Dark Ocean Society (secret society) that linked with the yakusa and animated the personnel of the Japanese imperialist venture. They were formed like the European ones of synarchy--as elite reactions against the democratic and public participation trends of their own society.

Long term books on Europe would be Hancock/Bauval's Talisman or Tobias Churton's The Golden Builders.

Or from a non-agnostic point of view, mine, see these lists. I promise they are filtered and 'selective' based the scant books I have found available that are a rigorous data source on these issues.

Though always buffer my list with other writers on the same subject.

And I'm not wholesale recommending these books' perspectives or their author's views. I am recommending their information as a resource.

Five lists are below.

The first two lists are about the esoteric material/religious science occult groups connected to astronomy in much of the European (and even global) elite tradition.
1 and 2 are for "Seek[ing] Solid Archaeostonomy Links to Occult Politics"; 3, 4, 5 are for global 'modern' (past 300 years or so) history and the issue of synarchy and 'global synarchic consolidation' involved. By the early 20th century in Europe much (or many) of the autarky and mutual hostility of different occult groups presumably were brought together in a large international hierarchy. This was under Ordo Templis Orientis, the OTO, and its grades synthesized by Aliester Crowley and his ilk. [Good book on that: Blood on the Altar]

Here are the five lists:




A Definition of Synarchy:

"...a specific politico-esoteric system, a movement known as Synarchy. This is a 'Government by secret societies,' or by a group of an initiates and operate from behind-the-scenes. It is analogue of a 'theocracy,' or rule by a priesthood....

"The founder of Synarchy [sic], a Frenchman named Joseph Alexandre Saint-Yves d'Alveydre (1824-1909), explained that the term was the opposite of anarchy. Whereas anarchy is based on the principle that the state should have no control over individuals Synarchy proposes that it to have complete control. He proposed that Synarchists achieve power by taking over the three key institutions of social control: political, religious and economic. With its own members and positions of power, the Synarchists would, in effect, secretly govern entire states. And why stop there? One of the aims of Synarchy, from its very inception, was--from the words of a Synarchist document--the creation of a 'federal European union.' Is it any coincidence that we're now moving rapidly toward such a European state? Significantly, those words were written as far back as 1946...."--

The concept, in European history, goes much further back, further than 1946, even 1776. However, this list is for 1776 to the present.



10/14/2007 04:57:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jared Diamond's Collapse is STUPID -- Diamond doesn't even consider synergistic feedback, just as the supercomputer models for global warming exclude most of the feedback cycles (making reality much worse).

Diamond's first big hit -- Guns, Germs, and Gonarehha or whatever was actually a rip-off from Marvin Harris (but since no one reads Marvin Harris, only the books pushed in their faces through mass marketing....)

While on it: Kotke's Final Empire was a cool book -- TEN YEARS AGO! But he doesn't get into the deeper structural issues.

10/14/2007 10:48:00 AM  
Blogger surrender said...

Dear Jeff,

Thank you for caring....

Authentic Inquiry:

"What is inquiry, really? This is a good question. And like most really good questions, it is very basic. Authentic inquiry is allowing yourself to care, to take on the weightless burden of caring. Everyone knows what it’s like to inquire out of intellectual interest—asking for the sake of asking or because you think you should. This is not caring. When you care about something, it gets inside of you. It gets inside the shell that keeps you from being affected or bothered, the shell that keeps anything really new from happening.

So in the beginning, to deeply inquire about anything, you have to care about it. You have to care enough to allow it to get inside that shell. What do you really care about? What pulls you into here and now, this minute? What is the most important thing to you? For real inquiry, it is important to be asking about something you sincerely care about. The question needs to be personal, not about a spiritual teaching or something that’s outside of your experience. It needs to be something that’s coming from the inside.

When you care, you care from the inside. Many people impose ideas from the outside upon themselves, but this isn’t inquiry. When you really care, you enter a love affair with what you care about. Sometimes it draws you into bliss, sometimes into confusion. You don’t know what to do. You don’t know where you are going. You feel a bit out of control. You’re letting this caring get under your skin. To find out that you care like this is the most important thing; otherwise you can spend your whole life caring about what someone else says you should care about.

Like many people, you may be afraid to find out how much you care because that caring could just steal you away. What is the one thing that will matter the most at the end of your life? Without it, you would say: “That’s what it was all about and I missed it.” If you had the best job, lots of money, the perfect lover, or whatever your ideal is, and suddenly your life was over, what would still be left undone? That’s what it’s all about.

When you find that kind of caring, inquiry has some power behind it. You also find your own inner integrity. You find something inside that’s stable. There’s a place inside you that is willing to be a little crazy—crazy enough to take inquiry seriously and hold nothing sacred. Holding nothing sacred means that nothing is assumed to be true and all of your assumptions are fair game. The more spiritual they are, the more they are fair game. Ultimately it is your most sacred and unquestioned assumptions about yourself, others, and life that are most important to question.

Many people find their spirituality taking them outward. They think they are going inward because they have heard the spiritual teaching, “Inquire and look within.” Meanwhile, they are out in the stars somewhere looking for someone else’s experience, looking for the right experience, or looking for the experience they believe they are supposed to have. This is spirituality going entirely in the wrong direction. Inquiry is a means of taking you back to yourself, back to your experience.

When inquiry is authentic, it brings you into the experience of here and now, bringing you to the full depth of it, pulling you into it. The question pulls you back into the mystery of your experience. “What am I?” takes you right back into the mystery. If your mind is honest, it knows it doesn’t have the answer. You ask, “What am I?” and instantly, there is silence. Your mind doesn’t know. And when it doesn’t know, there is an experience right here, right now, that is alive. You bump into nothingness inside—that no-thing, that absolute nothingness which your mind can’t know.

The answer does not come in the form of a description or phrase; it is a direct experience. And this experience, your livingness, always transcends any words or intellectual answer. In fact, the truth of your being is eternally transcending itself. As soon as it projects itself out as something, even as a profound insight, it has already transcended it. So eventually the inquiry wears itself out. You wear yourself out. You wear your ego self out. You wear your spiritual self out. You wear it all out. You’ve inquired yourself out of this whole thing, and you’re disappearing faster than you can put yourself together.

As Nisargadatta Maharaj said so brilliantly and beautifully, “The ultimate understanding is that there is no ultimate understanding.” When it’s in the head, it’s an impressive piece of understanding; when it’s in the heart, as the Buddha said, it’s extinguished. You find a living experience of being, empty of content, empty of you. This is where spiritual awakening begins. This is the living answer of authentic inquiry.

© Adyashanti

10/14/2007 11:50:00 AM  
Blogger CuriosityShop said...

That was beautiful, Surrender, thank you.
The Mouse & The Light.

A fable.

10/14/2007 02:32:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

I hear the stained glass windows in Chapel Perilous are dazzling. Hypnotic.

Dream's End,

Yes, they are, but if you visit often enough you get the sense that, like anything, it’s just another show. In fact, Wilson, the anti-Guru, spent a great many essays trying to drive home the point that all hallowed halls were hollow holds in the Trip Ship of “Fate.” Bilgewater is all that Ponce de Leon was selling in yet another Roadside Attraction in the artificial state of Flouride-Ahh.

Synchronistically enough, I just ran across another antidote to the illusory sliding show of Liff in an oddly sober passage from the weird world of Steph Swainston:

“Once you realize of how little consequence you are in the immensity of time, you gain a great power, a liberty and you can follow your own path in peace.” (Dangerous Offspring, p. 229)

That said, I’m still a little nervous around those probes of Whitley’s—I can’t help but think of the anal pears I saw in the torture museum in Amsterdam. Could our little friends from Beyond have visited the same creepy exhibit, or is it a case of parallel evolution? Pan-Galactic Inhumanity?


Some of what you say about Bucky might be true enough—I especially liked the short version (“the reason this works is because of growth FROM WITHIN”), but it’s a logical fallacy to conclude that since he didn’t manage to find the replacement for the squre root of 2 that everything he wrote—including his conception of a world based on abundance—has to be tossed out with the bathwater you find so lacking.

Whatever his faults & deficiency of formulae, Bucky’s admonitory ultimatum—to switch from weaponry to livingry or die in the heat death of the unsustainable Empire—is the crossroads at which we find ourselves. He and Schauberger both posited a world based on abundance, an abundance that is indeed viable because of growth from within. You can’t read Fuller’s vision of a nonhierarchical, post imperial civilization or Schauberger’s syntropic, eternally replenished water world and possibly find a continuation of Empire within these visions.

They stand in opposition to the manipulation of scarcity; if I live in a geodesic hobbit hole, I am not a vassal of the Overlords because the math used it its manufacture is an asymmetrical abstraction of natural symmetry. (Ditto with Dawkins’ mad scheme using Bucky’s fullerenes.) Likewise, if I help to re-green the planet by restoring watersheds using Schauberger’s insights into the living energy of water, I am not just building more plantations for the Man.

The fact that the NASA Nazis are using vortex mechanics (while telling the world that vorticular & æther physics are “impossible”) means nothing in itself. The elite have been misappropriating technologies since they first gained a foothold. Schauberger was forced to work for the German Nazis, too. Saying

So water is a macro-quantum free-energy element but this measurement of water is just an increase in using it as a pivot for nanobiomotors (a la assimilation Schauberger's research)

doesn’t begin to describe the nature & implications of Schauberger’s work, much less serve to dismiss it as yet another Freemasonic bit of asymmetrical deviltry. You really have to look into these things before dismissing them out of hand purely on the basis of this extremely limited application of the symmetry rule.

I don’t susbscribe to Diamond’s shtick lock, stock & barrel, either, but that’s not because of a single fault I find with something he wrote. He is one of the great champions of indigenous wisdom, for example, which really pisses off the eugenicists and as such is worth considering for this alone. Same with Harris. Even though I still like Cows, Pigs, Wars & Witches, I can also see that his worldview was as limited by his emic/etic dualism (dialectical materialism, really--the difference between what they say they’re doing and what we, with our superior knowledge know they’re really doing) as Dawkins is in his skin tight lizard skin.

As far as the relevance of Kötke’s book goes, your dismissal that it’s dated, that it was a good book “TEN YEARS AGO,” is just silly. What’s the shelf life of that poem by Wordsworth that still expresses your point about Western science’s habit of “murdering to dissect”? Or have his many points about the theology & practice of empire become so widely accepted that we’ve moved on from there? No one believes in Malthusian linear increase anymore, right? Or the absurdly self-serving tooth, nail & claw evolutionary meme that the social Darwinists use to justify their predations?

Are you really suggesting that?

It seems to me that Kötke’s breakdown of the Imperial World Order in that wonderfully concise Chapter 13 is as accurate now as it was then. True, he was a bit too pessimistic then about what to do (although he never fell back on some “there’s nothing we can do” surrender, mind you), but he has kept on growing his mind since then and is coming out with a new one on the specific, even structural steps we can take right now. (See The Hero’s Journey for a preview.)

My point here, Drew, is that we have to be able to make distinctions. There is much of value in many sources with which we don’t entirely agree. If your only yardstick is this asymmetrical fixation of yours, well it’s no wonder that you aren’t proposing anything other than getting in touch with our Qi.

I am intrigued by the possibility what might replace the square root of 2 as the mudshark in our mythology, but knowing that we have the tools to remake the world right now, that the solution is not political or “religious,” and that turning our energies inward is not the only option available is something that we can “get behind” without necessarily “believing in.” Nietzsche kept insisting that the New Horizon could only be built by supermen, when all he had to do is look out the window of his library to see how Nature builds its stunning cathedrals without any bosses or slaves.


Those are great resources. There is a valid line of inquiry in the conspiracy theorist’s history book, as long as he remembers to remember that there is such a thing as a free lunch, after all.

Thanks for all the material. What I find particularly worthwhile in such stuff is that it backs up the sort of wild-eyed claims I make when I say that the elite have rigged the game so that the bloated carcass that is America steals the resources of the world and keeps both its own fattened citizen patsies in line and the rest of the world in normally invisible chains. If the mechanisms of monopoly were more well known, much of the empty blather that passes for political discourse would deflate into the flaccid sack of nothingness it comprises.

On the other hand, all those patriots so self-righteously screaming warnings about the encroaching NWO would have to realize that the boot has been stomping the face of the rest of the world for a very long time now. Why is it they’re only alarmed when their own fat faces are threatened?

Thanks, surrender & Movie Girl--you're both embodiments of the peaceful goddess to me.

10/14/2007 03:08:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

IC let me repeat what I've stated with the hope that you will keep to my words:

1) Schauberger's math is based on making things equal One -- as in a phonetic-based, symmetrical Number that contains infinity. Schauberger is a product of the Bismarckian Empire. He knew that Western technology was wrong but he didn't know the answer.

Your Action: Nisargadatta Maharaj -- study him since he knew the answer.

2) The same goes with Buckyfuller -- as I stated Bucky did not understand the concept of formless awareness resonating through complimentary opposites.

Your Action: No One can know the Tao. Listen to Anuradha Paudwal and other nonwestern musicians then slowly your brainwashed status will clear up.

10/14/2007 03:57:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yeah Jeff it is unpopular to say conspiracy truth/theory has led to or can lead to traumatic stress. Whether affected mildly or severely depends on the person's situation, involvement, and mind-set. Conspiracy truth has caused depression, generalised anxiety, substance abuse, vigilance and scanning, episodes of rage, insomnia, suicidal ideation, and survivor guilt in many individuals.

Kindness, generosity, consideration, affection, honesty, hospitality, compassion, thoughtfulness, charity... are necessities needed for survival; without them society would collapse. Maybe these conspiracy truths and traumatic events can lead us back to being more kind, considerate, and honest with each other as a whole. As for now people are more interested in individual survival and are abandoning compassion, love, and kindness for the sake of mere existence because of elitist plots. Whether you are aware of the plots or are not.

Anthropologist Colin Turnbull, the author of The Mountain People(Simon and Shuster 1972), the classic, poignant study of the lk - the hunting and gathering people of west-central Africa who had been driven from their former hunting grounds by the creation of a new game preserve, writes about the lk: Economic interest is centered on as many individual stomachs as there are people, and cooperation is merely a device for furthering an interest that is consciously selfish...Anyone who cannot take care of himself is a burden and a hazard to the survival of others... Such interaction as there is within this system is one of mutual exploitation. That is the relationship between all, old and young, parent and child, brother and sister, husband and wife, friend and friend... They are brought together by self-interest alone... This reality of the lk happened suddenly, in a matter of years. But the same situation in Western civilization took several centuries.

We as adults may react to conspiracy truths/theories in selfishness and pass fear and insecurity onto our children - even those yet born - by replacing in their childrearing a sense of a secure world with a fearful worldview. The knowledge of conspiratorial plots breeds self-interested paranoia that may handicap us in our own personal lives. We then have to handle this handicap we may have. We can be honest and genuine company to others without pushing agendas on them. We do not need to be prideful with our knowledge of conspiracy. Just genuine and sincere company. When we do this then I guess we overcome our handicap. These conspiratorial plots are mischievous and arrogant and anything we say or do is not going to change this. But we need to acknowledge more often that this kind of arrogance simply is destined for failure. Not just OMG it is so bad and feel jealous of others because they refuse to accept the truths and theories of these plots.

10/14/2007 09:13:00 PM  
Blogger the author said...

Yes, prediction is impossible since if real inside info leaks out, they can always change their plans. However, that's precisely the reason why the Joneses and Tarpleys should keep leaking them. It keeps them on their toes.

10/14/2007 10:11:00 PM  
Blogger the author said...

"Them" being the PTB.

10/14/2007 10:13:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The concept of defining territory through visual dominance is a mammal issue called the "voluntary exclusionary principle" in ethology. Female exogamy is the result, practiced both by chimps and by Freemasonic or iron-based human societies.

But more of human history is matrifocal with reality defined by auditory dominance as with animals that live in forests -- not transitioning to savannahs. The latest evolutionary research states that bipedal protohominids were actually living in trees -- upright primates back 20 million years ago were tree-based!!

Anyway this visual dominance is based on a logical fallacy -- that infinity can be defined by a visual symbol and then contained through rectilinear geometry, based on the Solar calendar.

I just finished "Lost History: The Enduring legacy of Muslim scientists, thinkers and artists" by Michael Hamilton Morgan (2007). It's an excellent book but he makes a major snafu:

He correctly states that Islamic science was inspired by Aristotle's claim that revelation comes from reason, so mysticism is not mutually exclusive to reason. But then he states that Aristotle believed in zero.

In fact Aristotle was against zero and the author, detailing the development of Algebra, correctly points out that the concept of zero is not based on reason at all!

Nevertheless it makes for nice geometric-based analysis and so the book "Revolution in Time" by David Landes states:

"Subsequent gains have averaged an order of magnitude every five years. As a result of this heightened accuracy, the old defintion of the second...was no longer suitable; the solar day was simply not uniform." p. 186.

Solar time has been replaced by atomic time but still relies on a "divide and average" statistics using phonetic-based cipher logic.

Divide and average is the same as "divide and conquer."

Two WESTERN writers I do recommend as having the same views as mine are:

1) Gurdjieff -- "In Search of the Miraculous" (be sure to tear out all the extended comments by Ouspensky since he was totally clueless).

2) Rene Guenon's "The Reign of Quantity."

Now what's fascinating about these two authors is that Gurdjieff almost committed suicide since his "Tales of Belze..." could not get published as he wrote it! The stupid editors and publishers actually had the nerve to force him to make changes that went against his intended meaning.

And so the West followed Ouspensky and Orage instead of Gurdjieff even though the latter two were idiots compared to Gurdjieff -- they literally did not have the ability to teach Gurdjieff's views.

A practical example is Colin Wilson's in his book "The Occult." Wilson notes Gurdjieff's ability to bring females to orgasm at a distance. Wilson notes that even Crowley could not do this -- despite the fact that the whole Western magic scene is based on Crowley. I can do this!

Now for the second writer -- Rene Guenon. He died early due to what he called "psychic attacks." He states in his manifesto -- the Reign of Quantity -- that others have taken on his "traditionalist" term but they do not understand it. This is an explicit reference to the people that to this day are considered to be more important than Guenon yet were using his "traditionalist" label. Because they were also fascists people use this to disown Guenon.

Now the latest work on Guenon -- Sedwick's Oxford book -- doesn't even have a detailed discussion of the Reign of Quantity and leaves out this important comment by Guenon about his supposed followers.

So again the West is all to quick to slip back into the denial about resonance of complimentary opposites from formless awareness and when it is presented to them -- through Gurdjieff and Guenon -- people squirm and put up all sorts of stupid psychological blocks.

10/14/2007 10:24:00 PM  
Blogger Arabesque said...


In checking the link you provide I noticed an article about the "History" channel documentary on 9-11 conspiracies. While I found the article full of information I am curious if you have researched who owns the History Channel and therefore presumably controls the agenda of it's propaganda and hive-mind control?"

Yes, Prisonplanet has done some articles on who owns the History Channel. I link to some articles on the bottom of my post that discuss this issue.

"Enter the term "yellow journalism" in the Encyclopedia Britannica and one of the first entries you will see is William Randolph Hearst. The listing attributes to Hearst a legacy of "distorted" and "lurid" reporting, and cites him as being hugely influential in fanning the flames of the Spanish-American war as a result of his newspaper's sensationalist yellow journalism."

10/14/2007 11:07:00 PM  
Blogger Dennis Igou said...

The content of this blog and comments are extraordinary. I am amazed at the length,breadth,and width of this blog and comments.I learn much and my psyche is exalted with such experience. Respectfully, Dennis.

10/14/2007 11:07:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

In the 1966 book Tragedy and Hope pp 950, Carroll Quigley wrote: There does exist, and has existed for a generation, an international Anglophile network which operates, to some extent, in the way the radical Right believes the Communists act... I know of the operations of this network because I have studied it for twenty years and was permitted for two years, in the early 1960's, to examine its papers and secret records. I have no aversion to it or to most of its aims and have, for much of my life, been close to it and to many of its instruments. He believed that England needed to be federated with the United States and had to remain isolated from Europe. He goes on to write: but in general my chief difference of opinion is that it wished to remain unknown, and I believe its role in history is significant enough to be known.

This is one of many establishment insiders that conspiracy specialists have used to prove an existence of an international commerce network. Common sense dictates that Quigley as a member of the establishment was not the only member that wanted or wants this global network to be known to the public at large. Quigley received a B.A., M.A., and Ph.D., in history from Harvard University, he taught at Princeton University, Harvard, and Georgetown University. We know that at Georgetown he influenced Bill Clinton. Quigley also served as a consultant to the U.S. Department of Defense, U.S. Navy, and Smithsonian Institute.

The spin that conspiracy specialists put on this teaching is that you HAVE to oppose it. They teach us that we peasants need to revolt for our own sakes. That most people have not been taught these things and its up to us to do something about it! But they themselves hardly do anything productive but report on what other people have reported on. Quigley put a tremendous amount of effort to know about this Anglophile network and wrote at least two books about this Anglophile network. Any opposition to it that is of any value was surely discussed with Prof. Quigley when he was still alive.

My point being is that these people involved with this global network are productive, educated, very busy and socially active internationally. Any one sharing information about their whereabouts or plans is as threatening as an invertebrate on Rothchild's property. Quigley shared a tremendous amount of knowledge with people about this network for decades in full support of it. He is not the only Professor that knows about this and supports it. The Pentagon, CFR, TC, UN... people happily share knowledge about their global influence and plans.

When you say I am against it no matter what is like listening to a grown man say A is the first letter of the alphabet no matter what. I think the conspiracy specialists are profiting from creating intense feelings of worry and depression by not doing anything but making money as a result of the existence of this global network. I have not made a dime as a result of globalists. Because I have shunned making money as a result of globalism and the fear of it, I must be a shill and a servant of it. But while earning profits preaching against it there can be no corruption committed by the preacher. That would be sacrilegious.

10/15/2007 01:15:00 AM  
Blogger Sounder said...

I expect that most thinkers even if correct on some essentials will still be incorrect on particulars, and vise–versa. Many times I may read a book and get only a page or two of really good material. I would never expect to find all truth from any human being, given the basic conformities and corruption’s produced within society. At the same time I am able to compare other folks material with my own experience and thereby find bits and pieces that may add to my own understanding. It is a long road and I for one have no desire to get to the end of it.

This from Transcending the Control System at;

The positive (or STO, Service to Other) hierarchy is a network. This means higher evolved beings help lower evolved beings learn and evolve. In this way, those higher beings evolve as well. Here on earth, those who think they can fight through life alone are failing to make use of this network. They are succumbing to negative influences because of their pride, and must learn that because they are part of a network, requesting help from higher positive forces is perfectly fine. If the request is pure, those higher positive forces will help, especially if it aids in unblocking or accelerating one’s spiritual evolution.....

Within the negative hierarchy, beings force each other to evolve through constant competition, tricks, manipulation, extortion, and violence. Within the positive network, beings help each other evolve through creativity, compassion, teaching, sharing, and learning.

To be positive or STO consists of two qualities: having gained the lessons required to interact harmoniously within one’s polarity, and having gained the lessons needed to interact vigilantly with the opposite polarity.

And here lies another fault of YCYOR, the idea that all is “love and light” and one need merely think fluffy thoughts and put on rose colored glasses, and all will be fine. Another aspect to disinformation is missing information. Here, New Agers are taught only half the equation. Christians are taught the same thing with the “turn the other cheek” idea which is actually a corruption of the original meaning of the phrase.

The half of the equation they do possess involve the ideals of creativity, compassion, teaching, and so on. But when it comes to dealing with negative forces, they are wholly ignorant and unprotected sheep. This is another principle that negative beings count upon, for it makes their targets easy to feed upon and control.

When opposite polarities interact, problems can occur if the positive being treats the negative being as though it were positive. Rather than simply behaving “nicely”, being inclined toward STO means not feeding STS; being positive means not feeding negative. No matter your polarity, the only way a negative being will learn is through resistance against its manipulations or attacks, on your part.

If you were of negative polarity, you would often take the initiative to attack another less powerful negative being, but if you were positive, you would only act in self-defense and never actively provoke anything, merely respond if your response was “requested” by another being through its act of aggression.

The best way for positive to interact with negative is to not feed them, to act only in response to a hostile request, to stick up for oneself if attacked, and to pick one’s battles wisely. Treating them as though they were positive only feeds them more, and burns oneself out, like the short-circuiting of two batteries incorrectly connected....”

10/15/2007 06:50:00 AM  
Blogger ericswan said...

Sounder..Much like Drew's "Gurdjieff" pov with the small discrepancy in that Drew is talking about 7 brain centers in each and everyone one of us. If memory serves these "brains" are mostly in the head but have centres in the abdomen, the solar plexus and throughout the body and do the "thinking" along distinct lines of mental, physislogical, spiritual, auto-physiological, higher intellectual, emotional and sexual centers.

The "Know Thyself" axiom is knowing all of these brains and which one is doing the work at any given time. One center will compensate for a weaker one and may or may not be up to the task of supplanting an intellectual or spiritual for STS.

Orgasm at a distance is a remarkable and memorable experience but it's not self-explanatory. It's not even highly evolved. Simply put, it is the sexual brain center working hard and in unison with another.

Drew..This blog and other's like it is a medium that Gurdjieff and Ouspensky prolly projected into the future but as McLuhan explained in "The Medium is the Message" there is hot and cold mediums. Blogs can be both depending on whether you post a ton of "links" or you speak from your heart (brain). Are you thinking or are you learning? Sounder is working on his higher mass mind brain while IC and his phisiological albatross is busy linking from others and burying his "self" deeper and deeper in the higher pursuits.

I think we are all in therapy and working to "know thyself" but that doesn't mean we will all progress down the same brain path to perfection as we all have achieved different perspectives based on what we need to fulfill ourselves.

Gurdjieff would have preferred face to face communications as it would be child's play for him to see what brain is the least developed and point that person on the path to his salvation.

In short, Drew...George was a manipulator using the axiom of divide and conquer. Wordsworth would have something to say about dissection and east vs. west dichotomy of left and right brain would leave a house divided.

10/15/2007 09:15:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Paul.......Fuck Ron.

Let's Prey For His Safety.

10/15/2007 09:48:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

John Pilger Rocks.......but assuming an All Powerful, Monolithic Elite, how is it that he's still alive?

10/15/2007 09:50:00 AM  
Blogger Fructedor said...

Surrender 10/14/2007 11:50:00 AM

That really was a lovely post. Thanks from me too.

There's some excellent stuff here - I agree with Mark that despite the unavoidably unpleasant downside, there are clear benefits to be gained from 'conspiracy' information - the Internet has made available to anyone with an inquiring mind a wealth of information which was unavailable before. This can only be an enriching experience - by picking up the threads, just as in real world conversations, we learn as we go to distinguish between the useful, the doubtful and the useless - which should be guided by our own individual inner truth, a matter of intimate conviction. This is ever-changing, it can't be anything else.

Because a man like Alex Jones, for example, comes off as a bombastic prick, for example, or because he or she has questionable associates, or whatever, does not automatically disqualify everything they say. Take what you need and leave the rest.

'To learn the truth from falsehood
And artifice from art,
A man must polish endlessly
The mirror of his heart.'

Talking about AJ or Tarpley or Dave Van Kleist mostly concerns 9/11, about which there is sufficient information from all sides to allow anyone with a few surviving neurons to determine that, once again, the power structure is lying in order to exploit we the people. These days, thanks to the available info, anyone can see that ... so what else is new?

One of the most unnerving aspects of this sort of enquiry is that it can't fail to dawn on you that, quite likely, the PTB actually aren't that worried about what we learn - they'll just keep insultingly stonewalling, backed by any number of the volunteer blind who, for a few bob, will keep screaming that the emperor's suit is magnificent. They're not worried probably because they have ample proof that we can't, or haven't a clue how to, do anything about it. JFK etc as proof, as I've said before. David Ray Griffin said that's the idea that keeps him awake nights. It's pretty much locked down.

There will be civil strife and violence, even in our 'free democratic societies', no doubt about it, but I wouldn't be betting on a favourable outcome for we the people. There exist indications that power has technology and weaponry decades in advance of what we're aware of, and it's not there to be used for our benefit.

Back to intuition and intimate conviction. The source for these most essential human attributes is described by yet another maligned and worn-out word - the soul. We can all define that aspect of us all, hopefully without sinking into the quicksand of established religious dogma. This is why it's essential to excercise and develop this aspect of our humanity, because it's the only way to a better world. Some of you don't believe that a better world exists, but I do, and it is being built by prayer and good works.

Prayer is vibration - and vibration is all life. Not just spoken prayer, which is a perceptible, audible vibration, but also silent prayer, which is vibration on a finer level. I join with others in recommending a look at the Cymatics videos - you can also order these documents from a guy called Jeff Volk, whose address I'll pass on as soon as I dig it out of my paper pile. You may be able to find him thru Google. These videos are an excellent visual witness to the work of vibration. What we say and do and think and feel affects the entire texture of existence - this is the reason why it's imperative that we work on our own consciousness and strive to clean ourselves from the negative influences which surround us from birth. I believe that the true meaning of human life, essentially so at this point in time, is that we accept the fact and the responsibility of being creators and act upon that.

'Know thyself' does not necessarily mean eating the library, though if you feel the need, bon appetit. It's more sounding the depth of our own humanity, not just for our own personal satisfaction but in order to share more efficiently and beneficially for us all.

I think it was IC who said (rather better than this) that the basic problem is not one conspiracy or another, but the entire foundation of the way humanity has been operating from as far as we can remember. I agree. Greed, deceit and murder. But this does not mean that it's the only way we can ever operate - the point is, what needs to be changed, and more importantly, how can it be changed?

It's human awareness that needs to be improved, and that improvement will only come about by a change of heart - in the soul sense of course. Let's pray for others, let's begin close to home, see how that works. Pray for education, pray for those working for ecology, for those who work for the health of others.

Rigour in investigation will avoid your falling into traps, but intuition leads the way. The mind is a tool for the spirit, not the other way round. We need mind food, but we need, essentially, food for the spirit. That, too, is free.

10/15/2007 10:56:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What exactly do you mean by "pray?"

10/15/2007 11:09:00 AM  
Blogger surrender said...


If you have a conscious relationship to the Source you would not ask that question.

I will not answer for FRUCTEDOR for he has his own special realtionship to Source and prayer works for him as well as for me.

Praying for me is simply stating my intention to the Unviverse, which always says YES. Since I have "choice" in the matter, I must always be conscious and clear about what my "intention" is, so as not to confuse the result.

I keep it simple and pray for Surrender to "what is so." I have surrendered my life to the Source and the work I do celebrates and honors all life here on Earth and Elsewhere. I experience miracles everyday, even while living in one of the poorest countries in the world. I pray for joy, for love, for exstacy, and I always recieve what I ask for.

Humanity is struggling for Spiritual Freedom to Be Who We ARE.
And to realize our True Purpose for being on Earth while we are experiencing a Transformation or Transition into another Era of Existence.

We are discovering the existence of those dark forces, kindly referred to as the geopolitical CABAL, who are busy doing whatever possible to thwart our Spiritual Evolution and interferring with our Right to LIFE.

We are not alone in our struggle for there are many who are exposing the dark forces with light and love.

Contrary to what many believe that post here, I KNOW we have much to look forward to during this time of Transformation. The outcome is our Choice, for Choice is the gift of the Source.

We will, as a collective consciouness, choose Free Will and experience life on Earth as Free Spirits without conditions that inhibit our True Purpose as Human BEINGS...

10/15/2007 12:28:00 PM  
Blogger Fructedor said...


I'll get back to you in a while - I have a prayer group at home tonight.

10/15/2007 01:21:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you have a conscious relationship to the Source you would not ask that question.

Well, then, count me among the damned, I suppose. The fact that you acknowledge me, is enough for me, Surrender. I don't need you to pray for me to some ambiguous source. The fact that you acknowledge me in a positive manner tells me that you consider me to have positive worth, and that's something money can't buy.

10/15/2007 01:24:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have a prayer group at home tonight.

Will they be serving Lamb?

10/15/2007 01:25:00 PM  
Blogger surrender said...


Religion does not equal Spirituality.

And I agree with you whole heartedly that many are misled and do pray to some ambiguous god fed to them over centuries of distortion and lies to convince Humanity that they have no power.

And you are certianly not "damned" if you do not pray to some ambiguous entity outside of yourself that has no meaning or reality for you. You probably have "saved" yourself from lots of heartbreak and confusion by refusing to jump on the "god" bandwagon that takes most people as far away from the Source as is possible.

IMHOP this is the cause of our demise as Human Beings.

I promise not to pray for you for that is not my way of connecting to you. I just like what you write. I like your rigorousness in what you post... and your humor cuts to the chase and keeps us on our toes...

Each of us has some conscious or unconscious awareness of our Soul's connection to ALL that Exists and to the Source of that Existence...

10/15/2007 01:59:00 PM  
Blogger Amanda said...

To Warren:

The "Rapture" does not appear in the bible and was an invention of the 19th century by Margaret MacDonald and John Darby. Perhaps you should re-read your bible.

10/15/2007 02:24:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...


No need to resort to "brainwashed status" here. A very valid question would be how we know what we think we know, a trail that ultimately leads at minimum to--cultural conditioning and at maximum to active & coordinated brainwashing, yes, but let's assume that we at least have the freedom to examine our beliefs and the implications of these beliefs.

If we are really automatons, what's the point of discussing anything?

Now, I'm not saying that your asymmetrical calculus is irrelevant; I'm just trying to get you to see that it can't explain everything, since anything that explains everything is impossibly reductionist.

Again, distinctions are everything.

In the case of Schauberger, or Eugene Tsui for that matter, we have people who begin with no preconceived notions whatsoever--absolutely no mathematics, no scientific construct. Instead, they set out to observe Nature in the hope of intuiting, not deducing (the art of forcing phenomena to fit theoretical constructs) how Nature works. Then, having received this experience directly, unmediated by anyone's theory of anything, they set out to copy Nature.

This was their methodology--Western, asymmetrical, Freemasonic mathematical corruption had precisely nothing to do with how they came to practice what they practiced. Have you actually read Our Senseless Toil? How about Evolutionary Architecture?

Now, it might well be that when Schauberger was forced to use the tools of mathematics to build physical models of what he envisioned, he unwittingly made use of corrupted systems--I'll grant you that much--but my response is still "So what?" Same with Bucky; his inability to transcend the square root of 2 problem does not take anything at all away from his vision of a world based on abundance.

If Eugene Tsui and Peter Vetsch and Malcolm Wells can build a world where we're no longer subject to the tyranny of the scarcity brokers, what difference does it make if their slide rules run along the old curving track? At this point, your asymmetry lens becomes a moot point, an exercise in abstract absolutism.

Kötke's Final Empire, by comparison, as well as every other project which attempts to do something aside from listening to "different" music or rearranging the furniture of our minds in isolation from the rest of humanity, has every bit as much relevance now as it did "TEN YEARS AGO." As does Epicenters of Justice. How is it again that by connecting with chicks using the Eastern music shtick you're actually still working for the same cause?

Now, if you were talking about some sort of cerebro-spiritual revolution that would eventually (and hopefully sooner than later) manifest in the material end of the material/spiritual Oneness of All, well, I'd be down with that program straight away.

Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't hear you advocating doing anything at all--you told us that there is nothing we can do, that the world can't be fixed and that such things should not even be attempted. What does that leave us with?

Looking backward in time, what sense does this position make? Before your Bad Guys used Pythagoras' metric to enslave the world, or in my terms before the Agricultural Revolution, we lived in harmony with Nature. Do you mean to say that the Empire was inevitable and that it's now unstoppable, that all human potential is contained within the Duck and Cover reflex that your advice seems eerily reminiscent of?

What about all the other worlds, what about the idea that the only real limitation we face is the limits of imaginative faculty? If you reject the notion that everything is possible, you're left with either a grim determinism or an equally grey materialism ("this is the only reality; accept it on its terms.")

Drew, I'm not trying to cross dork swords in a public venue with you--I really am interested in all varieties of truth, regardless of how programmed my thinking might appear to you. I just can't shake the impression that you're the one reducing an incommensurable universe to a single equation. I'm open to any trip you want to suggest, really. I'll even follow these sources you've cited. Hopefully they won't lead back to a single, vanishing point.

(Btw, have you ever checked out When Zero Equals Infinity? I know I'm probably way too open to new ideas and such [no doubt as a result of my lifelong brainwashing], but the whole timelessness spiel it's a part of is sort of interesting as an alternative mathematical construct. Just a suggestion.)

Belliosto, Fructedor, Sounder, surrender & ericswan:

Very clear thoughts. Many thanks.


You're still a very funny guy. (Are you done being mad at me yet?)

10/15/2007 02:38:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

That's another good post sounder. Thank you so much.

Hey Jeff. Hello up there. Can you hear me? How comes you nevers respond to anybody towards the middle of posts and towards the ends. You only responds I reckon in the beginnings.

10/15/2007 02:55:00 PM  
Blogger Jeff said...

"Hey Jeff. Hello up there. Can you hear me?"

Loud and clear.

Lately, if I'm having trouble with the next post I've been tuning out comments to the last post after a few days. Chiefly because my lack of productivity depresses me.

10/15/2007 03:07:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You're still a very funny guy. (Are you done being mad at me yet?)

I was never mad, IC. Contentious and Effusive, yes, but not mad. Passionate and Intense, yes, but not mad. Mad as in Insane, yes, but not Mad as in angry.

Now....let's examine the oft used phrase "I just want what's good for all of us." Does someone who says this really mean it? Is such a want possible given that what's good for the goose isn't always good for the gander?

10/15/2007 04:28:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

IC: I've read Schauberger and he states very clearly equations each of which equal ONE as his vision of totality. The "zero as infinity" link you've given is just a rehash of Euler who still relied on logarithmic math, as I detail in chapter four of my blogbook: "Secrets of the Greek Freemasonic Miracle."

Math professor Joe Mazur emailed me stating that my analysis was "very important" and he wanted it published in the most read math journal but he also asked me to add my personal comments.... with obvious results.

Now IC all you can do is continue linking to little techno-fix projects that are nice extensions to the nearest Mall-shop. Kinda like when the Peace Corps went to India and dug water wells everywhere -- great, now India is about to run out of water.

A professor who does have an excellent structural understanding of the ecological crisis is Professor Robert Nadeau. His book The Environmental Endgame: Mainstream Economics, Ecological Disaster, And Human Survival by Robert L. Nadeau (Hardcover - April 25, 2006) focuses again on quantum chaos -- the cutting-edge science relied on by the military for global management.

You'll find he states the same thing I do. Not only is Nature more complex than any ingenuity of humans but the end result of technology is still the same nondual consciousness that was the logical origins of science.

10/15/2007 05:09:00 PM  
Blogger Fructedor said...

Shrub - endives au jambon and some great cooked pears from the garden - bloody tasty, too, I could last on that until Thanksgiving. Of course, when the ladies began swopping recipes I got antsy as usual and snuck off to smoke a ciggy and read the blog.

'What exactly do you mean by pray?' That's a tough question to answer, not because I don't know (at least for me), but because the only tool I have to explain, apart from prayer itself, is language.

It's late, so I'll finish this tomorrow, when I hope to come up with something coherent.

10/15/2007 06:28:00 PM  
Blogger Brainpanhandler said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

10/15/2007 06:49:00 PM  
Blogger ericswan said...

Drew ..are you talking gatorade or Coca cola cause if it's gatorade, then you know who got the water in Atlanta but if it's India well, you know it's coca cola that has dried up the aquifers.

Or were you suggesting that we send all of the bottled water we can find to New Orleans cause they haven't got any? Scratch that.

Or were you suggesting that we send all of the bottled water we can find to ATLANTA because they don't have any either.


Would it just be better for everyone involved if Coke just got out of everybodies "common"?

10/15/2007 07:58:00 PM  
Blogger wwwdotnet said...

I just can't keep up, busy with non anonimous life, that i don't have the time to read all this juicy stuff, and keep up convos.
so on the original post, kinda, on anonimity...I look close. but I see text. if I did look closer, wouldn't it reveal ourselves for the ego that haunts us? but how else to communicate? imagine if were were to put a photo of each of us on here? or voice posts.... how bizarre. so there is a level of distance that we operate on. if we blow up the picture, things go funny, or the non blown up picture becomes funny, and then we have to stay there.. micro to macro, and vice versa... can't put my finger on it.

and Jeff...don't be low on your productivity, you ain't a factory, artists spurt man! on the blow up meme -

You think I'm just some guy from Fresno who tinkered with crack pot ideas in his attic? Well let me tell you something, this country was built on the shoulders of people who tinkered with crack pot ideas in their attics, basements and backyards.

Wayne in "Honey, I blew up the kids"

10/15/2007 07:58:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm amazed that "the Author" has some intuitive insight to this issue:

The Author -- what you said about the octave and the fifth is very crucial. The octave actually isn't a perfect rehash of itself, as we presume in the West. This is also the cause of the Pythagorean Comma dilemma that led to logarithmic mathematics. After seven octaves the overtones create the 12 notes of the scale but the final note of the octave is not the same as the original note -- it's not a doubling.

This means that the real natural resonance of octaves is actually a spiral of full-spectrum energy transduction.

This free energy is based on logical inference of overtones achieved through LISTENING or logical inference of complimentary opposites (so the fifth as the first overtone is the principle of generation with 2 as Female and 3 as Male).

The One is not a Number because it does not refer to a physical string -- but rather if one listens to the source of the one, asymmetric or complimentary resonance with FORMLESS AWARENESS occurs as the female source of all energy-consciousness-existence.

This is the 3 in 1 principle.

When applied to the body there are three basic practices: The small universe or microcosmic orbit, Tai Chi or trance dance and the full-lotus.

The vagus nerve transduces the electrochemical hormones so that the serotonin gives the voice a rich, deep healing quality.

10/15/2007 10:03:00 PM  
Blogger Dogananda said...

Well...if Rudy is elected, at least we'll be prepared for whatever may come.

10/16/2007 01:02:00 AM  
Blogger Dale said...

Jeff, Mars is now in the early summer (cancer) part of the "heavens" - not a particularly happy place for it. Brings quite a bit of agitatiing energy to all of us, especially on the family on stomach fronts. Take care, don't stress or overload at this time. In a few months it will pass. Cancer is a time for nurturing rather than instigating.

This may be of interest:

Kinda fits in with Mark's little link to

10/16/2007 02:03:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Think Amish thoughts Jeff. We never see them in the court buildings and they have an excellent reputation as builders, farmers, and loan payer backers. I think we all would like to be in the Amish village. No phones or televisions.

Horse and buggies. Bonnets and beards, woodworking and crafts.

10/16/2007 06:39:00 AM  
Blogger Sounder said...

Surrender, I re-read the Adyashanti piece and was laughing at the number of times that the word ‘experience’ was used. I like experience.

As was said;

“There’s a place inside you that is willing to be a little crazy—crazy enough to take inquiry seriously and hold nothing sacred.”

To tie in the prayer issue and what one cares about (from Adyashanti’s essay). Most all learning seems to come via hearsay, that is; I do not trust the foundational premises. What is a person to do if he does not trust the ‘wisdom of the ages’? In my case I made a formulaic ‘prayer’, repeated two or three times a week for about two years. It said; “Dear Lord, please let me see reality as it is, independent from my preconceptions as to the nature of that reality.” The answer was way over my head, but at least I learned to appreciate that reality is poorly contained within our current forms of understanding.

Over time I have come to consider that one result of my experiment is to indicate that the ‘god’ that you bow down to is what resonates with your chosen expression of being. That is, the thing that you focus on becomes ‘god’, your creator. My prayer (or focus) is that I approach the task at hand with appropriate action so that efforts show results for my mundane world, and that my understanding be increased so I have a better chance at choosing appropriate actions.
This works for me.

10/16/2007 07:24:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Horse and buggies. Bonnets and beards, woodworking and crafts.......

and Sister Rape, don't forget Sister Rape.

10/16/2007 08:08:00 AM  
Blogger CuriosityShop said...

What we still don't know - Are we Real?

"The universe is still a place of mystery and wonder."
Sir Martin Rees

Are we alone?
Why are we here?
Are we real?

Astronomer Royal Sir Martin Rees investigates ...

All life on Earth is nothing more than an elaborate facade created by super-intelligent beings. Humans now exist in a computerized version of the world – a simulation that keeps us happy, while our powers are drained by our creators for use as fuel in their campaign for dominance in the ‘real’ world. This is the premise of the cult sci-fi thriller 'The Matrix'.

‘The simulation hypothesis, that we are currently living in a computer simulation, should be understood literally, it’s not just in a metaphorical sense whereby one could view the universe as a simulation, but literally we would be living in a simulation created by some advanced civilization in a computer they built in their universe. And everything we see and our brains themselves would just be parts of this simulation.’ Oxford University philosopher Dr Nick Bostrom echoes the thoughts of sci-fi writers and scientists alike. The simulation hypothesis is not sci-fi, it’s serious academic thought.

In Are We Real? Martin Rees navigates the extraordinary territory between science fact and science fiction. He reveals the logical steps that have led cosmologists and philosophers to the shocking conclusion that The Matrix scenario cannot be safely relegated to our storybooks. Whether it’s true or not, and it might be, here is a story that is altogether more serious and more deeply disturbing than any sci-fi fantasy could ever be.

10/16/2007 08:10:00 AM  
Blogger ericswan said...

Built for speed with time warp capability just in case you miss your stop. Call it defective perfection or call it a hologram or maybe it's reverse thrusters, the fact is the sum is not greater than the whole when zero=infinity=God.

This is the grand Architect theory on steroids. God put his All in creation and left nothing of Himself out. He did, however have a failsafe that timed out in precession and recursed itself in a most peculiar way. The mathematics that Drew talks about or the music of the spheres and the recursive One is beyond all comprehension. We simply don't live long enough anymore. The days of Moses and Methusalah are long past and man shall live but 120 years.

But the Architect put his All into his creation and the creation is out of His control. Did the Architect build in a failsafe where the entire creation folds into itself and back to zero or will this cosmic dance step to the beat of one hand clapping?

You be the judge.

10/16/2007 09:09:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Movie Girl,

I'm glad you brought that up, because I've been thinking about just that in context with the discussion about prayer and spirituality.

What happens to the simulation once the simulatees figure out, en masse, that they are in a simulation? Does the program terminate? Tower of Babel Reboot?

I revealed this theory to my nine year old daughter and she literally broke down. My wife was furious with me. I honestly did not expect that reaction from my daughter....but it rocked her forming world.

10/16/2007 09:54:00 AM  
Blogger surrender said...

That which was before consciousness began, is eternal; that which humanity thinks is changeable and inconstant; that which was, before consciousness began, is Truth; that which humanity thinks is truth, is truth to them. When the Law of Truth comes to consciousness, it will erase all that humanity has ever thought erroneously.

As the centuries roll on and push back the material veil by the process of evolution, thoughts come through the mind of humanity that revert back to Truth or, as we call it, the original cosmic fact; and these thoughts that fill the memory of the past, faced with the facts of the present and overshadowed by prophecies of the future, stand out definitely upon the path of the whole evolving race consciousness. Thus the race is called back again and again to the original existing principle. By this return and repetition, humanity is shown that Creation is eternal, the same with all mankind; but mankind’s creatures are always changing and they are under a manifestation of Law called action and reaction. When human beings have gone far enough in their creation of creatures, the Great absolute Law of Truth takes a hand in bringing them face to face with the original plan. Thus we see that cosmic law never allows life to run too far in a tangent. This law is always polarized in equalization, balance, and harmony.

In spite of idols or creeds it will crowd mankind on into complete union with Absolute Realities. All things that are not in perfect accord and union with actual, existing cosmic fact, must erase themselves when the Absolute Law of Truth holds sway in the human consciousness. The thoughts of humanity are always so formed as to release their imperfect creations, that are only born of half-truths, when Truth arrives.

Cosmic Absolute Law must be fully satisfied. Thinking, speaking, or acting the Law of Reality is bound eventually to lead humanity into Law or Reality itself. The ancients tell us that every tree that the Heavenly Father has not planted within you, will be uprooted. ‘Let them alone, blind leaders of the blind. If the blind always lead the blind, shall they not fall into the same ditch?’

The cycle is fast closing in which the blind of the whole race have led the blind into a welter of ignorance, superstition, and delusion created by those who believe as human beings think, rather than that which is true and real. The civilization that has risen on the delusions and superstitions of the closing centuries is submerging itself in the welter. Through the pain and tragedy of their misappropriated creations, a new race consciousness has been conceived and is fast evolving. In fact, the door is opening wide for its new birth.

There is no other course than to go on from one plane of consciousness to a higher and more advanced step in the actual cosmic path. The only condition forbidden in the vibration of the great cosmos is that quality of thought which allows the human race to become so solidly fixed in what it believes that, if it clings desperately to its old delusions and will not let go, it can in no way come into the greater expanse of universal thought.

Those thus absorbed in personal consciousness must go on through natural exhaustion of beliefs and experiences until they fail to go forward; then, of its own accord, Absolute Law wields a progressive hand through disease, pain, and loss, until the human is satisfied and turns to find the curse of a false idea within the idea itself.

If a race or nation refuses to let go of things created by a portion of human thought instead of that which really exists, the Law takes a hand in its progress by allowing the accumulated vibrations sent out by such a condition to reflect back upon itself through the light ray. Then with war, strife, discord, and death on every hand, that race or nation is wiped out, in order that it may be placed again in a new up-lift of creation. Thus it can begin over again in a new contact with that which was before the beginning of human consciousness.

Civilization today is fast approaching a great reconstructive moment. All things that seem so stable and well-founded now will soon be immersed in a state of inversion. Every tree that has not been planted by Truth will be uprooted. There is approaching a complete cosmic overthrow of the present social, political, financial, and religious institutions that will make room for the placing of the new era in order that humanity may come in closer touch with that which is and was established before the present human consciousness submerged and set it aside.

Truth waits on with attentive, loving, and radiant beneficence until man will see that he can embrace and become the consciousness of that which has always existed.

10/16/2007 11:30:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I realize that my blogbook is quite unreadable but this is a discovery that is still crystallizing. Math professor Joe Mazur stated it's "very important" information.

Now let me clarify:

Babylonian math did not use zero but used a continued proportion for music -- the Tetrachord from the 60-base number system.

6:8::9:12 -- we can see how this is just 3:4 with two and three as the multiplier while 6:9 and 8:12 are 3:4 -- so this is the Tetrad of Pythagoras or China -- 2:3 is Yang and 3:4 is Yin -- converted into logarithmic or "divide and average" analysis in Babylon.

Babylon did not use zero and therefore had not phonetic cipher to convert letters into equalling infinity (with the I-thought as One). This was the addition of Brahmin math to the Greek Freemasonic Miracle.

How so? 5:4 is the Major Third harmonic but it's also the cube root of two.

Archytas, the buddy of Plato, extended the octave 1:2 into 1:4 so that he could convert arithmetic mean (divide and average) into geometric mean (magnitude) as an INFINITE symbol.

Previously the Brahmins had only approximated the square root of two -- probably because they didn't use logarithmic algebra as extensively as the Babylonians, relying more on geometry (like Egypt).

So the Tetrad of Pythagoras was supposedly extended from 1:2:3:4 into 4:5 which had to be converted into 5:4 for a ratio beyond the octave (which is either 1:2 or 2 with the interval of the 11th as the "vanishing mediator" of Orthodox Pythagorean harmonics) and then applied for Archytas' geometric mean equation (discussed further in my blogbook --

chapter 4.

Now 9:8 cubed is the square root of two (approximated) but through geometric mean logic -- it's a precise conversion of "contained infinity."

Another way to think of this is that the octave was made into a smaller frequency from 1:2 to 1:4 so that the frequency of 4:5 could be converted to amplitude of 5:4 as the cube root of two. This is from the Golden Ratio whereby 5:8 of the Fibonacci continued proportions was converted into 8:5 as a geometric mean because 5:8 is the minor sixth as the complimentary opposite of the major third 4:5.

In fact, as I emphasized 1:2:3:4 are not logarithmic measurements but asymmetric resonance of male and female complimentary opposites with infinity as FORMLESS AWARENESS -- not to be contained through a visual or material measurement.

This is also the inference of the I-thought -- as taught in Brahmin jnana logic of Advaita Vedanta or vichara.

So science is based on the repressed emotions (desire as music ratios) projected as logarithmic power (amplitude converted into magnitude) but what is lost is logical truth of the Logos.

Technology is the right-hand projection of the repressed emotions through left-brain mathematics and syntax -- which, as it increases in logarithmic power, causes a further structural intensity of ecological destruction.

This is why conspiracy literally means "spiral unity" as F.W. Schelling understood.

10/16/2007 01:27:00 PM  
Blogger Fructedor said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

10/16/2007 02:04:00 PM  
Blogger Fructedor said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

10/16/2007 02:14:00 PM  
Blogger Fructedor said...

10/16/2007 02:31:00 PM  
Blogger just_another_dick said...

"Take that gold on that man's ring...he...he long's he work for that? 2-3 weeks to get that ring? And when he got that ring he puts it on his finger & he rides it around. And he doesn't know that he's holding up the very same values that's working his African brother to death. And is starving somebody else down into the ground, but he wears it on his finger like it was okay. I'd take it off and thow it on the dirt. Y'know I wouldn't enslave nobody for a piece of gold. That's stupid. And anybody you see wearing gold, y'now, they're enslaving somebody else with it. But, it's where their brain is and you can't get them out of it"

"You probably lie every day of your life. But there's one person you don't lie to, and that's yourself. You can't lie to yourself, and I'm more "yourself" than you realize. Na-ha-ha!"

"Stop cutting the children out of your life by telling them, "get off the phone, don't do this, don't hear that...," hide this from them, hide that from them. They're gonna find it sooner or later, one way or another. You did, didn't ya? And you found it to be so goddamn miserable when it got to you, because someone had hid it from you. That's why you're in the mess that your in, cause someone hid the truth."

"Music is my soul. It's the way I's my religion."

"I'm just no longer afraid, and I've lost interest in this old world of capitalist sin. Racism? I've lost interest in it. So if somebody wants to make me stay in it by compromising with filthy minded people that can not even have respect for somebody who would die, even for his enemies, and they want to cause anarchy in our midst, I would just as soon bring it all to a gallant, glorious, screaming end. Just bring it to a screeching stop in one glorious moment of triumph."

& this quote's for you Shrub:

"It's not a question of whether you want to fix the water, you've got to fix the water. But nobody gives a fuck about the water, they would rather worry about the money."

Oh yeah, all quotes are by Charles Manson & The Rev. Jim Jones.

10/16/2007 02:59:00 PM  
Blogger surrender said...


"I also believe that there are extra-dimensional beings whose function is to help us evolve – I’d go so far as to say that developing a connection with them is essential in our progress".

Do you also believe there are extra-terrestial beings helping us to evolve before we destroy ourselves and do greater damage to the Earth? Or are they included in the extra-dimensional beings?

From what I gather we have always had this connection. I am interested in whether you have had personal experience or contact with such beings. Many, many people all over the world have had such experiences and there is an increase in reports of children from many countries who have special abilities and insights and advanced intelligence i.e evolved children who are not ego-centric or anchored in the material consciousness. I have not only read of this children, I have met some of them. Just last week I met a 4 year old for the first time and she told me that she can "see things" that no one else can see. Her mother told me she is very psychic, can read adult books and paints like a trained artist. She painted with me and I was blown away by her.

The possibilities for Humanity's advancement into a New Era or a new way of being are limitless.

10/16/2007 03:05:00 PM  
Blogger Fructedor said...

I can't help thinking of Frank Zappa who once famously led the (un)faithful in hilarious prayer - "Dear God, don't listen to the other guys ..."
Obviously, in this vision of God, he sitteth like a President in a comfy chair waiting to by swayed by various lobbies, some of whom are actually convinced he speaks no other language but theirs. Most of us have had to get out from under that one - luckily it's not too difficult. Some of the escapees, however, disgusted by the stupidity of the scam for which so many have fallen, come to the too hasty conclusion that the whole idea of anything greater than man is rubbish, and then begin taking cheap shots at weak-hearted 'believers', thereby proving that they've made no progress whatsoever.

When I say 'pray', I mean, literally, to conduct vital energy towards an objective of my choice. This can be a person, a group of people, or a more abstract intention, such as "... for the increase of peace in the hearts of mankind."

It's important to understand that the person who prays is a relay, and not the source of the energy transmitted. The source is, of course, the creative universe - by praying, we are accepting service in the evolution of creation. We are also accepting the fact that, in most cases, we don't really know what the outcome should be. We can only assume - and this again a question of intimate conviction - that evolution will be beneficial.

The natural state of a human body is perfect health and a capacity for self-healing which confounds medical science even today - perhaps because, mostly, medical science concentrates on the physical, the quantifiable, and takes the position that our actions should be aimed at correcting 'errors' which have sneaked into the mix. Pasteur used the idea of the human body as a fort which needed to be protected against invasion by ‘enemy’ germ forces – although his work was important concerning numerous rules of basic hygeine, several of his contemporaries ( whose names I can’t remember, I’ll look them up) were busy exploring the causes of the appearance of these germs – one guy in particular was convinced that the appearance of germs in a human body was first of all the result of an energetic imbalance. These views were swept under the rug by a powerful publicity campaign similar to the one still used today by our governing bodies to swamp us with one idea to the exclusion of all others. In the case of medicine, this has led to an increasing search for new and more efficient drugs which usually have partially beneficial effects at the cost of numerous negative side effects, most perceptible in the treatment of AIDS, cancer, and so on.

In a healthy body, we can assume that all the cells are working correctly and in harmony with all others, that the exchanges between them are harmonious and unhindered, and that the immune system is efficient and on the ball. But the human body is not just a physical thing. As is abundantly clear, and continually borne out by scientific research, the material world is first and foremost an energetic world, and changes in the material are first operated in the energetic world. This of course is not just true for the human body, but for all creation. The universe, as we perceive it, is an ongoing process, sustained by an energy source we don't really understand - that's the whole point of the sciences, to understand what it is and how it works.

It's no stretch to understand that feeding a living creature with unhealthy elements can only lead to a degradation of the system, which in turn will lead to increasingly inefficient functioning and eventually, destruction. Such a state will also, obviously, be transmitted to the surrounding creatures, which depend on their connection with what should be a healthy system. An example of this is the use of nitrate fertilisers, which force a plant to feed on water which is rendered bereft of copper – copper is an essential element for the maintenance of our immune system – could forty or fifty years of the use of nitrate fertilisers in our food be a cause, or the cause, of the plethora of human diseases whose common denominator is an increasing weakness of our immune system?

This is true not just of nutrition, but of the vibratory field. We define 'bad' vibrations by their 'negative' effects on our systems, and 'good' vibrations as those which are 'beneficial' to our systems. We could all make lists, and probably find that we agree on most of the items. We need to learn to become more efficient at producing ‘good’ vibrations, which are the very base of healthy life.

The Universe is alive and intelligent, otherwise where does human intelligence come from? Of course, there are those for whom Life is no more than the flickering of random electricity over landscapes of meat - I'm no scholar, but this idea seems to be pretty new in human experience, and seems to have grown in proportion to excessive pride in our dazzling scientific skills. I repeat, I'm no scholar, but as far as I know, every civilisation has developed their own idea of higher being. Perhaps the ungodly in those days just couldn’t raise the cash to get a decent press agent – but is this God idea just embroidery on the screen around the fear of death, as some like to claim - or were all these guys on to something fundamental?

The intelligent mind of the creative universe is not outside us, like a traffic controller, it works through us – all of us, all the time. We all have our place – the chances of our understanding the importance of our place with our human intelligence are very slim, probably nil - and I believe, beside the point. It is our capacity to function correctly that makes a difference. Hence prayer.

Our mental intelligence is an essential tool – but our intuitive intelligence connects us to the source of life itself. By developing this connection, we enter into creation on a different level from the creations guided by our brains. Praying is one of our basic human functions, the use of energy for creation, just as a body cell will pas on the necessary enzymes to another as part of its natural function. It’s a question of developing our capabilities, which, since we are all participating functions in the ongoing creation of the universe, are universal, that is to say, limitless. I believe it’s far more fruitful to investigate and learn to use this creative connection than spend all our energy exploring incessant quantities of mental information which, almost exclusively, maintain us on the sensory level.

So here it is, and I really hope this isn’t going to sound twee and NewAgey – you have my word that I wouldn’t stoop to giving advice or passing on info I haven’t verified for myself. Like Surrender, I can testify to what I’m tempted to call miracles in my own life and the lives of many people I know, most particularly, unexpected and unexplainable healings.

If you still your mind – just as an exercise – still your mind and stay with being for a while, you will almost certainly experience what we can call your connection to the life force. You will feel it and recognise it. It may be necessary to practice this for a while, perhaps repeatedly, but if you want to find it, you will. I’d be willing to bet that some of us here have tried meditation in one form or another. Meditation can take you to the same place. However, instead of remaining in silent communion with your own individual connection, as in meditation, try this – you can direct that force outward. Start with something simple, let’s say someone you know and if possible, someone you love. Direct the life force toward them. There is little point asking for Jimmy to pass his exam, or for Ethel to win the lottery, because what we’re doing is something like watering a seed – if you don’t know what the plant is destined to be, there’s little point asking for cabbages or roses. You may experience a subtle sensation in your solar plexus – I do, but everyone does not – in the end it’s unimportant. What is essential is the direction of beneficial energy to the person or intention for which you’re praying. It’s most often called love, yet another relentlessly flogged-to-death word which nonetheless designates something vital and real. You will also find that this exercise also nourishes you – in a sense, it’s a triangular relation between the energy source, you the prayer, and the person you’re praying for. It’s this connection and movement which makes it vital.

I hope this is of some use to someone – I believe that developing our spirituality, which has to be the domain of every human being – is what is required at this point in time. In any case, it’s the road I’m on. I’m grateful for all the head food I can glean from this site and the communications by you all.

I want to say to that I really appreciated the post by Sounder – an evocative pseudonym. I also believe that there are extra-dimensional beings whose function is to help us evolve – I’d go so far as to say that developing a connection with them is essential in our progress.

And I can’t resist this - GGG, à propos the direction of benficial energy, I have to express my awe at the fact that you came make women come at a distance. I assume you warn them first? I have nothing on you, man, I’m not beyond preferring the hands-on technique as yet – but perhaps the energy technique is one which may come in handy as I advance in age – for one, it’s got to be cheaper than Viagra.

10/16/2007 03:10:00 PM  
Blogger Fructedor said...

The researcher I mentioned in relation to Pasteur was called Antoine Bechamp - he was a contemporary, not a colleague

Info here

10/16/2007 03:31:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

I was never mad, IC. Contentious and Effusive, yes, but not mad. Passionate and Intense, yes, but not mad. Mad as in Insane, yes, but not Mad as in angry.

Glad to hear it, Shrub, and good on you.

Brainpanhandler said...Broadband Cuttlefish? (I was never quite certain of my ancestry, although those Celts certainly got up to some interesting things...Thanks!)

Now IC all you can do is continue linking to little techno-fix projects that are nice extensions to the nearest Mall-shop. Kinda like when the Peace Corps went to India and dug water wells everywhere -- great, now India is about to run out of water.

Well, Drew, I know I don’t always express myself clearly, but nothing could be further from the truth than this characterization. I’ll get to what I’m really saying in a moment, but first let me tell you, pal, that you’re sending out all kinds of weird, even elitist vibes that don’t really resonate with all the cosmic certitude you’re preaching.

Why is that?

If I were to respond in kind to the sort of disparaging, snide remarks you’re making towards folks here, I’d have ample fodder. Stuff like:

I'm amazed that "the Author" has some intuitive insight to this issue.

Why would you be amazed that someone other than yourself might have some insight? I’ve already talked about this strange habit you have of ignoring the entire body of a person’s work on account of an equation that annoys you, or a single quotation--do you really believe that RAW wasn't an ardent supporter of Bucky's because of the label you mentioned?--and yet you seem to be very keen on self-promotion…when you’re not addressing any of the world’s problems at all:

And so the West followed Ouspensky and Orage instead of Gurdjieff even though the latter two were idiots compared to Gurdjieff -- they literally did not have the ability to teach Gurdjieff's views…Wilson notes Gurdjieff's ability to bring females to orgasm at a distance. Wilson notes that even Crowley could not do this -- despite the fact that the whole Western magic scene is based on Crowley. I can do this!

Well, that’s great, Drew. Ouspensky and Orage are “idiots,” even Crowley couldn’t “bring females to orgasm at a distance,” but you can. Stunning. I can see right off where this sort of skill is going to work well in bringing about social justice, environmental stability and the furtherance of the human potential. Remote Gland Goosing For Peace does have a certain ring to it, but how does it help a broken old grandfather begging for a cup of rice or child laborers who are worked to death?

Dude, I just don’t get it. You say you understand that All is One, but then you dismiss Schauberger’s insights into the way Nature works because his maths indicate that All is (the number) One. I’d still be willing to give you the benefit of the doubt if you’d advance some sort of plan, but aside from impressing chicks, you fall back on the old obscure clichés about The Way being unknowable and all that action-through-inaction stuff.

Where’s the social justice? (Please, no more about remote orgasms or how impressed some professor is with your contribution to alternative mathematics: tell me something real.)

You write:

Schauberger is a product of the Bismarckian Empire. He knew that Western technology was wrong but he didn't know the answer.

when he actually did. I know, implosion theory and all his years of observing Nature count for nothing because he didn’t possess your True Secrets about the number of the Beast, but how many of us have? By this logic, everyone who doesn’t share your secret is an idiot and their work is for shit.

Except…what is it that you’re proposing?

Here’s the other weird thing about your rants here. You emailed me about plugging Mothership because you knew I liked Epicenters and that I was open to new material & points of view, which I did because I am, but then you come here with all this condescendsion, hostility and exclusivity. I do like parts of what you’ve written in Mothership, but that doesn’t mean I’m buying its conclusions, just like I can take bits & pieces of many, many writers without signing my name on the dotted line to all they’ve written.

My message is not some sort of soulless “techno-fix projects that are nice extensions to the nearest Mall-shop”—everything I’ve written stands opposed to what is. The problem we face is the control of the many by the few through the systemic manipulation of scarcity carried out by entrenched monopolies, corporate owned pseudo-democracies and franchised media. We know what the result is: environmental degradation and massive inequalities in wealth and opportunity. Life in the matrix, as you say. MLK’s spiritual death (I know, he didn’t know about the asymmetrical obfuscation, but I’m linking that speech anyway.)

The question is: what to do about it.

If All is One, if Nature consists of an harmonic unity, then the material world is as real as the spiritual (at least insofar as either is real—the dream logic of the simulation Movie Girl talks about is rather compelling). In fact, the material world is indivisible from the spiritual—the schism of Western dualism is not going to be solved by denying the existence or the unimportance of the material world.

When I talk about rebuilding the world, one of my favorite metaphors is the one that Belliosto mentioned: “Think Amish thoughts Jeff.” I can’t count the number of times I’ve written that, given the choice, people would much rather come together for a barnraising than for a lynching—it’s precisely in rebuilding the world together that meaningful communities can be formed. When I bring in relevant links to support this thesis, it’s not so much the technology that’s important as the design. This is where Eugene Tsui comes in.

Like Schauberger, he started out with no preconceived notions, certainly no mathematical frameworks, and simply opened himself up to learning how Nature builds things in order to help us remake man’s relationship with Nature. We have 6 ½ billion humans living outside the harmony of Nature right now. We have political & economic regimes which not only control the population like some vast, bipedal herd but seem intent on shoving them over the cliff if the lemming programming isn’t up to specs.

We have to do something or the trajectory we’re locked into will lead pretty much where the doomsayers are predicting. Fortunately, the solution is fairly simple. We regreen the earth. We dismantle all the plastic crap and earth-killing artefacts we’ve covered her with and rebuild along principles that any observant person can see for himself. Fuck the gurus, forget about the political saviors and all the other "great men."

Old Viktor never saw himself as some kind of savior of mankind—it was never about his ego but about the things that matter:

Viktor Schauberger's great dictum, frequently asserted, was "C2 - Comprehend & Copy Nature," for it was only thus that humanity could emerge from its present crisis-stricken condition.

"They call me deranged. The hope is that they are right! It is of no greater or lesser import for yet another fool to wander this Earth. But if I am right and science is wrong, then may the Lord God have mercy on mankind!"

(I know that C2 is not the magical formual and probably won't give anyone an orgasm at twenty paces, but there just might be more important natural phenomena…that embody the spiritual as well. Maybe even idiots can understand them.)


You are obviously no idiot; that was a beautiful comment (and not just because you started it off with Uncle Frank.) I, too, believe that the universe is alive and intelligent, despite certain evidence to the contrary. Bravo!

10/16/2007 03:51:00 PM  
Blogger Fructedor said...

Hi Surrender

Extra-terrestrial? - I couldn't say, although I have to say that the idea of a universe within which we humans are the only sentient beings seems to me quite ridiculous, not to say downright scary. I personally have never knowingly perceived any extra-terrestrial beings, but I've read enough on the subject to accept that there is a strong probability that they exist and that they are in contact with humanity in one form or another. There are probably 'goodies' and 'baddies' on this plane too, since there are on ours. I'm open to the idea of their existence - if only because it's more interesting that way.

What interests me more, however, is the extra-dimensional beings,in whom I am definitely ready to believe, both 'good' and 'bad' - because I have experiences which I can't explain, but which can be explained very efficiently by the existence of such beings. They seem to be invisible to our four-dimensional perceptions, but nonetheless connected to us in a very real way. Communication with these 'good' beings seems possible, and, if they truly exist, their input has always been beneficial to me.

However, out of honesty, I have to admit that these experiences - like, for example, the intuitions some people experience concerning 'past lives' - remain entirely subjective, and cannot be proven 'objectively' or 'scientifically'. That does not disqualify them, however.

One of my earliest memories, which I later verified with my parents, dates from my first years of life, I must have been about two or at most three - we lived in a small wooden bungalow in the countryside, beside a canal. One night I woke up and saw a number of small green humanoid creatures moving gently around the room I was sleeping in, seemingly peering at me curiously - after a while I called out to my parents, and my Dad came in - the little green guys ran for it immediately - how they got in or out I can't say. When I told Dad what I'd seen, he made a big game out of it, pretending to chase them away, and I went back to sleep. However, I have absolutely no doubt that I actually saw these creatures with my waking eyes, it was not a dream, I actually watched them moving silently around. With the eyes of innocence. What were they?

Many spîritually oriented horticulturists firmly believe in the existence of 'nature spirits', elves or such, and work with them through prayer, sometimes with amazing results. Why should they not exist?

I also know from my own experience that 'negative' energies can be manipulated invisibly in order to introduce negative interference in my perceptions, creating fears, obsessive ruminations on negative subjects, and so on. Again, these experiences remain subjective, though, in my experience, cannot be explained simply by the need for a good meal or some sleep, as others can.

The innocent perceive the world differently from the rest of us - have you ever noticed how infants will often look fixedly above your forehead before they look at your face? This happens all the time. What are they seeing? I think they're seeing manifestations of the energy world - until they get left-brained into learning that we can't see it, or that it doesn't exist.

I think it's possible to create a relationship with these beneficent extra-dimensional beings, whose job seems to be helping us out. But all this has to be based on sincere work on improving the quality of our own perceptions and our own actions - in terms of ourselves, but most importantly, in terms of other human beings.

Keep planting them trees - you can be sure you're making a lot of little green geezers happy.

10/16/2007 04:32:00 PM  
Blogger surrender said...


Thanks for your response. I really like the way you express your views and perception of life.

I had a feeling that you had some kind of experience like you described when you were young.
Keep posting....

I don't know about those little green geezers but I know Mother gets a kick when another tree is planted. Its my way of honoring Her and my miniscule contribution to the regeneration of Spirit.


Bravo to you for you last post! Your words are getting thru to some of us and for sometime now.
Nature (I call Her Mother) has all the gifts of life we need and more. I truly believe, once the stronghold on our development weakens, we will be able to live in a world in harmony with Nature as we were intended. Your intention is strong and valuable, at least to me. Thanks.

just a note:

You said:
"We have to do something or the trajectory we’re locked into will lead pretty much where the doomsayers are predicting. Fortunately, the solution is fairly simple. We regreen the earth. We dismantle all the plastic crap and earth-killing artefacts we’ve covered her with and rebuild along principles that any observant person can see for himself. Fuck the gurus, forget about the political saviors and all the other "great men."

Could we open up the possibility that there are some "great women" waiting for the time when we will be heard and maybe even source the regeneration of the planet?
(and I don't mean Hillaaarry or Condolessssa)

Cheers to you IC!

10/16/2007 06:56:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The logical issue is whether we can "save" Nature as IC argues by "copying and comprehending" or whether we are "PART OF" Nature and therefore, from the get go, have no intention of saving or changing anything.

This later position scares the shit out of Westerners! That's why I like it. haha. To harmonize or tune through proper waveform is not the same is "doing nothing" but appears to be so by those whose reality is defined by a geometric-based infinity.

It's a logical structural issue. Another way to understand the Greek Freemasonic Miracle of how One (whether it's Schauberger or Newton) became a replacement for formless awareness -- the Female source of all reality -- it the concept of intensity in physics.

When Newton built on the concept of intensity, changing it to density, his direct source, as discovered in the 1960s, was Pythagoras. Gravity was defined by Newton as stretching a musical string with 4 times the weight so that the intensity of the string created twice the frequency.

We can see that this is just an extension of Archytas' "geometric magnitude" concept whereby what had previously been pure logical inference achieved by listening to harmonics was now limited to "containing" infinity through physical symmetry.

Again the octave had to be extended so that the frequency of the octave, 1/2, could now be just the string length as intensity or magnitude of two (if the total string length is measured by 4 times the weight).

Now IC you have referred to my masters thesis from 6 years ago, "epicenters of justice," linked at but this masters thesis just charts the convergence of nonwestern harmonics and paranormal powers with quantum chaos science -- both starting and ending in the Female formless awareness.

But there's a logical error in Epicenters of Justice, in the second section, where I state that the Tai-Chi symbol can be found as a logistic equation of quantum chaos.

This symbol can indeed be created from such a system but that doesn't mean that logically quantum chaos is equivalent to nonwestern harmonics or that the Tai-Chi is subsumed as a subset of a logistic quantum chaos equation.

Again it does mean that the two converge -- through what quantum chaos calls the "double torus" or Klein Bottle, with a couple different examples, one of which is the focus of quantum chaos professor Steve Strogatz' research he did at Los Alamos. The full-lotus yoga position is the real Klein Bottle through what I had recently published as the "Yan Xin Secret" at

Strogatz replied to my enquiry about this convergence in synchronicity of quantum chaos with nonwestern harmonics. Strogatz is currently researching the dynamics of cancer cells. I pointed out that the current N.I.H. conferences on melatonin treatment for curing cancer, in conjunction with circadian rhythms, is also the same as the 11 p.m - 1 a.m. meditation focus in qigong whereby every two hours the energy of the body switches to a different organ. Melatonin production climaxes at 1 a.m. and therefore this is the prime time to meditate. I mention this in my masters thesis in regard to the five main organs modeled by the pentatonic scale created by the overtones of 2:3 as male, yang energy.

Paranormal powers are of different levels but more importantly is the logic al foundation that enables them to be achieved. The principle of asymmetric harmonics is very simple yet very radical since through its application the practitioner actually merges with the foundation of reality to understand that indeed we can not copy nor comprehend that which is beyond all duality. Formless awareness is ever new, ever fresh. Through tuning or harmonizing the formless awareness manifests itself as fulfilling all of our desires.

Logically the Female Formless Awareness is neither within nor without, neither inside nor outside, yet it guides all energy and existence. Science and technology are just a subset of formless awareness and through resonating complimentary opposites, as modeled in nonwestern music, then existence and energy can be harmonized.

Science and western technology will achieve the same goal of realizing existentially or ontologically that which is beyond spacetime, but only through the projection of a rotten root or logical inaccuracy of geometric symmetry.

The tetrahedron, for example, is made up of eight 2-3-4 triangles which, as the Full-Lotus body position, causes the triangles to turn into a vortex -- what the CIA mind controller Andrija Puharich called the Psi-Plasma Vortex. In otherwords that which appears to by symmetric is actually asymmetric and inherently creates free energy due to the natural overtones as complimentary opposites with 2:3 as Yang and 3:4 as Yin.

Very simply C to G, the Perfect Fifth in nonwestern music, is 2:3 while G to C is 3:4 which violates the commutative principle undergirding all of science (C x G does not equal G x C). Even noncommutative geometry converts back to a one-to-one correspondence of letter with number.

So my discovery of the "actual Matrix Plan" after I completed my masters thesis, based on the "music logarithmic spiral," not only confirmed my results (since they exactly paralleled this elite CIA-Institute of Advanced Study-quantum chaos research) but also lead me to dig further into the origins and results of what you have appropriatedly termed


Yes my blogbook is about the "Orthodox Pythagoreans" but all of Western science and technology are based on Pseudo-Pythagorean concepts, using phonetic-based logic with a one-to-one correspondence of letter and number.

It's a deep rotten root, solved through the logic of nonwestern music -- known as the Law of Pythagoras. Pythagoras has been lied about more than any other Westerner because he's the "vanishing mediator" of ecological harmony.

Pythagoras did not state that "All is Number" but rather "All is Number and Harmony" with the latter meaning Harmonia as Female Formless Awareness.

I'm not selling anything so if you state that you do not "buy" something that's just further indication of a bourgeois approach to reality dependent on the commodity fetish.

Now if you want to argue with the structural logic of my blogbook then feel free to do so.

As far as what I offer:

1) a detailed description of the structural drive behind Western civilization as a conspiracy.

2) a detailed description of how to escape that Matrix plan -- by practicing nonwestern harmonics as the Logos.

After that it's all Free'd Ohm.

10/16/2007 07:40:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here's further details on the Schauberger-sound connection, from my old blog:

As I pointed out in my last blog post, scientists are realizing that “sound” (i.e. pressure waves) actually is the driving force for the growth of supernovas and galaxies (see the lastest New Scientist, for example, for the super nova-sound discovery).

The question is will scientists have the balls (or ovaries) to actually take a close look at the Harmonic Series that models sound and is the unproveable foundation for all science?

“intensity of sound is proportional to the square of the amplitude of the pressure deviation, just as the intensity of the water wave is proportional to the square of the deviation of the surface of water.” (p. 151, “The Great Design”)

Here we are back at the old “bait and switch” (starting with phonetic gematria) between Pythagorean “intensity” used for the photoelectric effect (“intensity of light is proportional to the fourth power of frequency”, thereby leading to the unification of forces fiasco) and sound pressure as amplitude — when in fact

The pressure of water was converted from intensity to volume density for iron to measure momentum. In otherwords utilize the old Tetrad 4:5 ratio as the “deep disharmony” logarithmic cube root of three for “contained” intensity. This is how Pythagorean Natural resonance water-controlled left-hand asymmetrical carbon-based ecology was changed to Iron-based weapon projectiles!!

10/16/2007 08:38:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

And just so you know I'm a real conspiracy activist:

My Reptilian Research -- it's totally academic-based, with none of the same sources as David Icke.

10/16/2007 08:48:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

God where's Oliver Sacks when you need him:

"Can playing music alter the structure of the brain?" (WIRED, Oct. 2007).

"Very strikingly. In musicians, parts of the corpus callosum -- the bridge between the two hemispheres -- are enlarged, and there's more gray matter in the cerebellum. While you can't tell by a glance at someone's brain if they're a writer or a mathematician, you can tell if they're a musician."

Oliver Sacks.

Now amazingly I posted a new 2003 MRI study recnetly on on "high hypnotizability" that determined it was caused by an enlarged corpus callosum.

The same high hypontizability that enables paranormal skills -- just read Brad Steiger's book "Minds through Space and Time."

10/16/2007 09:07:00 PM  
Blogger ericswan said...

That old saw "Be careful what you wish for" seems to have caromed right on through the zero point. I'm enjoying the conversation more and more all the time.

IC...Where do you look to find the muddy waters? I contacted your link to zero=infinity. He wrote me back and I feel a need to share his response.

----- Original Message -----
From: Gevin Giorbran
To: ...
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 3:13 PM
Subject: Re: 0=Infinity=God..eric swan

Hi Eric,

I don't understand the idea that numbers are man-made? I think of numbers as a feature of the Universe. We attach specific words to features of the Universe. You also seem to be suggesting that something made by man is not made by God, as if man is independent of (God) the Universe, which is not possible. The ultimate definition of the word Universe is everything that exists. So the Universe is being itself. The secondary definition of "universe" is some bounded region of space or time, but this smaller universe exists within the ultimate single whole Universe. In however way that you define God, God is either something inside the Universe, inside the whole of being, or God is the Universe and being. Otherwise God is apart from existence which is not possible, as then the God one is referring to technically would not exist. Again, there is the Universe, or being, or existence. That is it. This is very important to understand, and yet simple. Since I personally am convinced that existence is infinite, timeless, and is indistinguishable from meaning, and further since I believe both the physical world and consciousness are indistinguishable from meaning, aspects of it, or how real meaning is, consequently I believe being and consciousness are the same thing. In being infinite, the Universe is omniscient and fully conscious, true from it simply being itself in all its multitude. Zero, the word we ascribe to balance, perfect symmetry, no-thing-ness, oneness, is not empty or a non-existent type of nothingness, but rather it is full. It is everything forever. Personally I no longer distinguish between God and Universe or being. I think of infinity, timelessness, the whole, zero, no-thing-ness, oneness, omniscience, full consciousness, symmetry order, implicate order, unity, and existence, as all referring to the same ultimate state of the Universe.

Eric, you are alive and thinking, but what you think is dependent upon how disciplined you are in your thinking. There is a lot of work necessary for disciplined thinking. It is an exercise that takes time to master. You have to be very careful about what you consider to be true or accurate of reality yet you cannot be afraid to think, and you can't be afraid to depart what others think or what you have been taught to think. You have to ultimately be completely free from the influence of others, such as referring to God as "he" or in the masculine. It is very difficult to break free from the forces around us that try to make us think a certain way. There is an instinctual bone in our heads that makes us want to go along, stay in a crowd, bond with the powers that help us or make us safe. But we do so at the cost of having a free and disciplined mind. Very few people are able to achieve mental freedom and disciplined thought, but the two fit together in a wonderful way that leads to creativity and truly beautiful reasoning, all of which is a gift of being, reality, the Universe, God. Personally I would sooner die than give that up. There are incredible pressures in the world to think a certain way. And there is a natural feeling of disconnectedness when you break free, but there is also a sense of relief. You have to conquer your fears. But the truth is that we are always making decisions about what we think, and there is an internal desire to be clear and honest about what we decide to believe. One of my favorite quotes is from Ursula K. Leguin in her book A Wizard of Earthsea, "You thought, as a boy, that a mage is one who can do anything. So I thought, once. So did we all. And the truth is that as a man's real power grows and his knowledge widens, ever the way he can follow grows narrower: until at least he chooses nothing, but does only and wholly what he must do."

Language is not an exact science. So much can be interpreted in various ways or further twisted to the meaning of something else, but disciplined thinking is simple. One has to consider all ideas without bias. One has to acknowledge all possibilities. One really doesn't choose to believe anything. True belief or knowing is a side effect of avoiding unnecessary conclusions and not having beliefs. The place of saying "I don't know" is one of the most important stages of growth. And ultimately we cannot know anything for certain. All we can do is discover what is probably true. "In all that I know, this is probably true." "Given all I can learn from all sources without having bias for any direction of thought, this is what is most probable." That is all that we can ever say. Things do fit together. Science, all the religions and philosophies such as Buddhism, are all trying to understand the same Universe. They do each see the Universe but none are singly correct. How could they be? Each is influenced by many people, so the powers of ignorance and division and control make their way into those belief systems. Only the individual can find freedom from such powers.

Best wishes,

Numbers are a manmade instrument where the Universe is made by God. When you reduce God to numbers, then God the Infinite is God =0. Nothing wrong so far. But move that a bit further along the spiral and you will find that God put His all into All into His creation and 0 (naught) left over for Him. Nothing wrong with that either. This is the kind of God that celebrates his works and sacrifices his only begotten Son for man. He has put his all into creation and his all to save man.

eric swan

10/16/2007 11:04:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

When he states that "the universe is being itself" he pinpoints his own error. The West is based on anthropocentrism that started in 10,000 BCE with the "symbolic revolution" of hierarchical, rectlinear art work.

Before this time humans were mainly foragers using hoes in matrifocal cultures but with the anthropocentric "symbolic revolution" came the creation of Gods and Goddesses -- along with the destruction of all circular houses, representing the female principle.

God is a word from the Indo-European root GOTT meaning BULL just as Brahman in Sanskrit means God as Bull.

The letter "A" is from the Sumerian ideogram for an upside down Bull's Head.

And so God defined as "I Am that I Am" is really the use of plow farming with bulls to "contain infinity" with rectilinear-based math.

Zero comes from the Brahmins who created a cipher system as a development of this attempt to "contain infinity."

So your "deep thinker" ain't there yet.

First the square root of two was approximated in order to find the center of the circle for chariot-warfare technology. This brought the Bull-God-Plow system into Africa and deeper into India -- back around 3,000 BCE according to the late UC-Berkeley math professor Abraham Seidenberg.

Then iron warfare became more prominent in India and around 1200 BCE iron replaced silver which had previously been for ritual sacrifice to the Lunar Goddesses.

And so the Lunar Goddess, the last remnant of the forager matrifocal human culture that had existed for 90% of human history was wiped out.

Pythagoras was from Anatolia one of the last matrilineal cultures, worshipping Cybele who was abducted into Europe (just as Zeus had Europa -- as a BULL). Cybele became Diana and merged with Isis for the black mother mary worship of Europe.

So the Universe is in fact FEMALE and this is found in the oldest human rituals -- the Eland Bull ritual of the Bushmen (a culture that goes back to 80,000 BCE with snake worship).

In Sumerian's Garden of Eden myth the snake is healing energy. The rainbow snake is the same role in Australia, Melanasia, even the Amazon.

God literally is the source of the I-thought in the heart-mind, achieved by Brahmin jnana meditation.

The left-brain uses logical inference of the I-thought and eventually, say 9 years of solitude, the person's awareness actually stops the heart for 10 minutes and then restarts it, ever after becoming the UnDead.

Left-brain logic was then free to pursue right-hand iron-based technology without scrutiny to suffering because with each breath or thought of the Brahmin jnana, the heart-mind empties out to beyond death!

This is the true meaning of zero -- also the goal of Hinayana Buddhism. The first big debate between Buddhism and the Brahmins was whether the solar eclipse symbolized the number ONE as infinity -- the ring of fire around the moon -- or as emptiness that could not be symbolized.

The Buddhists of course argued the latter but bother were wrong since the Buddhists relied on "neti, neti" logic or "neither, nor" which is the same as "proof by contradiction" deduction used to prove infinity as geometric magnitude (the square root of two). It's called "inverse induction" in math because it's induction, based on specific examples, but it's true FOR INFINITY.

The Brahmins are supposed to define infinity as formless awareness through logical inference of the I-thought -- but this process is actually based on music harmonics.

You listen to the source of the I-thought and that process creates ultrasound overtones which creates heat that ionizes your electrochemicals. The left-brain vagus nerve connects directly to the heart and this is how the UnDead Jnana is achieved -- literally the mind is killed. Whenever a thought arises based on the I-thought then I-I-I is repeated until finally the I-thought never arises.

It does but only apparently to those witnessing the jnana since the jnana actually already killed himself. His physical body no longer accumulates karma and only then can he achieve eternal liberation -- beyond any astral realm of the universe.

This again is similar to Buddhism which teaches that human life provides the necessary suffering to find out the logical truth.

The problem with all these philosophies, based on left-brain logic, is that music is the process of the resonance of formless awareness, through complimentary opposites. Music can not be contained by the brain -- music is neither insider nor outside.

All cultures use music based on the 1-4-5 intervals as complimentary opposites but the West translated those intervals into logarithmic tuning so tha t the natural resonance alchemy was lost.

Take life in the ocean for example. Ted Norris, an expert on dolphins, discovered that complex social behavior is based on "sound-pictures" to create a sensory integration system.

Birds in a flock react faster than each individual bird is able to do -- because of the same sound-picture system.

Sound, through natural resonance, is not only faster than spacetime, as anti-gravity, but it's in harmony with ecology and creates alchemy.

Unlike the concept of "zero" which is derived from a symmetric-based attempt to "contain infinity" through imperial-based geometry or Freemasonry.

The older language gets the more musical it becomes -- hence the term "musilanguage." So the Bushmen appear to be the most primitive yet their click language is the hardest to learn.

Antigravity of the universe is currently called "baryonic acoustic oscillations." Scientists do not know what baryons really are but they do know that energy and matter are created from sound.

In Quantum Chaos this is just called "spontaneous symmetry breaking" but in natural resonance it's known that sound is inherently asymmetric, thereby generating energy naturally (without the need to convert Nature into a logarithmic visual technology).

10/16/2007 11:46:00 PM  
Blogger Mark said...

surrender said:


Bravo to you for you last post! Your words are getting thru to some of us and for sometime now. Nature (I call Her Mother) has all the gifts of life we need and more. I truly believe, once the stronghold on our development weakens, we will be able to live in a world in harmony with Nature as we were intended. Your intention is strong and valuable, at least to me. Thanks."

Plan it out in your own watershed, now. Check out:

The above link is a man, a plan, though no canal, and not just for Panama.

As for melatonin at midnight issues, it produces itself in the body better in darkness. I don't think there's anything magical about 1 a.m. just what 1 a.m. typically looks like. Dark. ;-) From the link:

"In higher animals, melatonin is produced by pinealocytes in the pineal gland (located in the brain) and also by the retina, lens and GI tract. It is naturally synthesized from the amino acid tryptophan (via synthesis of serotonin) by the enzyme [you don't really have to know...]

Production of melatonin by the pineal gland is under the influence of the suprachiasmatic nucleus (SCN) of the hypothalamus which receives information from the retina about the daily pattern of light and darkness."

At the junction point of the hypothalamus where thought creates bodily effects and visa versa:

"The hypothalamus links the nervous system to the endocrine system via the pituitary gland (hypophysis). The hypothalamus, (from Greek ὑποθαλαμος = under the thalamus) is located below the thalamus, just above the brain stem. This gland occupies the major portion of the ventral region of the diencephalon. It is found in all mammalian brains. In humans, it is roughly the size of an almond.

The hypothalamus regulates certain metabolic processes and other activities of the Autonomic Nervous System activities. It synthesizes and secretes neurohormones,..

WHOSE thoughts they are is another question that others got into above. ;-)

GGG, are you sure octaves have overtones? Link?

And the 'comma' I think is something different--just a cute invented name for an frequency artifact Pythagoras named for the incapatability of certain number of octaves and a certain number of fifths which are close though no cigar.

Let's not make music so bureaucratic Satie mockingly warned...

Satie Sonatine bureaucratique (4:52)

original descriptive texts by Erik Satie (translated from French to English by me)...satie sonatine sonatina clementi stravinsky gymnopedie piano

10/16/2007 11:50:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The idea is to resonate the serotonin of the stomach so that it's ionized and therefore can pass the blood-brain barrier.

That's alchemy.

I used to perform Satie.

Overtones are really just the sound of one-hand clapping -- you can LISTEN to them but can't translate them into phonetic dualistic logic.

"Magic of the Senses" is a book that understands this.

10/16/2007 11:55:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

10/16/2007 11:55:00 PM  
Blogger Mark said...


I think I answered my own question about overtones. I thought you were implying that the octave had its own overtone though it was just the same frequency though you mean the effects of octaves in different materials I think--since "overtones are never exact integer multiples of a root frequency".

10/17/2007 12:00:00 AM  
Blogger Mark said...

GGG said:

"The idea is to resonate the serotonin of the stomach so that it's ionized and therefore can pass the blood-brain barrier.

Not that this really matters to me so much as to make people mad to argue about it, and just because getting clear on these mind/body interfaces fascinate me, I think serotonin precursors (like tryptophan) do that, and not serotonin itself. Once serotonin is made it doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier.

"Serotonin taken orally does not pass into the serotonergic pathways of the central nervous system because it does not cross the blood-brain barrier. However, tryptophan and its metabolite 5-hydroxytryptophan (5-HTP), from which serotonin is synthesized, can and do cross the blood-brain barrier.

And serotonin can be converted to melanin as well.

Why the body keeps serotonin from the core brain areas can link (I'm desperate to do so..) all this back to the blog's more typical themes:

"There exist many drugs that innately modulate the 5-HT system [5-HT receptors are receptors for the neurotransmitter and peripheral signal mediator serotonin, also known as 5-hydroxytryptamine or 5-HT] in such a way to produce alterations in perception, emotional response, and thought process. These include psilocin/psilocybin, DMT, mescaline, LSD, MDMA (ecstasy), and ibogaine. These and many more have been described in the books TiHKAL and PiHKAL by Alexander Shulgin."

Thus, if serotonin got into the brain, across the block it has in the blood-brain barrier you might be on a permanent rollercoaster that would be very hard for the body to get off of (i.e., in chemicalspeak, metabolize its way out of).

And of course these are just the chemicals (really the body's hardwired receptor pathway) known to tickle the body into altered states of consciousness and even Matrix-like 'reality' claims, particularly DMT.

Which might be the mechanism for a claim of neurotransmitter chemicals not being 'releasers' of internal thought though neuroreceptors or neurotransceiver chemicals from outside... Food for thought. Should we call them neurotransmitters (the word implies the 'dead material world' issues of internal materials of the body communicating) or neuroreceivers (implying transduction from outside, given that the evidence shows that this strange alternative reality effect mostly comes from tickling the same serotonin pathway with other chemicals).

10/17/2007 12:47:00 AM  
Blogger just_another_dick said...

Notes From An Underground Echo Chamber

Mark, I just wanted to thank you for that link to Hoagland's book. I read the excerpt provided & it cleared up something that has always puzzled me.
I remember being 7 years old, having freshly discovered comics & science fiction & "creature feature" 50's alien/monster flicks, & being completely enthralled with the first moon shot. My dad & I watched every minute that we could.
I was equally amazed at every subsequent moon shot.

But, as I grew older, I couldn't quite fathom the exact reason that we bothered in the first place.
NASA was, after all, a huge money pit. Money that could have been better spent here.
Of course, there was the whole cold war fueled, my rocket is bigger & spurts farther than your rocket, bullshit machismo that characterized US/Soviet relations, but that seemed so pedestrian.

But Hoagland has finally cleared it all up for me.
As he says:

"Based on our analysis as presented in this book, it is also our opinion that NASA's entire lunar exploration program-culminating with the incredibly successful manned Apollo Project-was carefully conceived, from the beginning, as a kind of "alien reconnaissance" followed by an "alien artifacts retrieval" program."

(What "alien artifacts"?, you coyly ask, batting your eyelids knowingly.)

Well I'll let Mr. Hoagland explain:

"NASA would clandestinely confirm with these earliest robotic probes, and then proceed to cover up (those bastards!!!!), the first awesome remains of a once-extraordinary, solar-system-wide, ancient technological civilization on the Moon-precisely as Brookings had predicted. Four years later, the Apollo Program would come to full fruition, and the lunar astronauts themselves would personally witness and extensively document, with tens of thousands of high quality photographs, from both lunar orbit and the surface, extraordinary "glass-like" structures on the Moon! The Apollo crews would also bring back to NASA laboratories not just rocks, but actual samples of the ancient technologies they found-for highly classified efforts at "back engineering."

Y'know, I've always found that "crashed saucer back engineered technology" story just a wee bit suspect. But this "dead moon man back engineered technology" story has a way, let's say, of intuitively making the little "truth bell" I store in my "Belfry of Solitude" go ring-a-ding, ring-a-ding-ding-ding!

Of course, all you Moon Hoax proponents take a shot in the foot.

As a matter of fact, Mr. Hoagland witnessed the planting of the "Moon Hoax" story while Neil Armstrong was only half way to the Moon. It's purpose, according to Mr. Hoagland, was to "discredit" the Moon shot.

What nefarious huckster tried to pawn this sad tale on America during her "time of glory," you ask?

Mr. Hoagland describes him thus:

"...a man, wearing jeans and a long, light-colored of those floppy "great coats" that cowpunchers used to wear in old Westerns, complete with a dark leather bag slung over one shoulder..."

(If you have trouble picturing this, rent the movie 'The Long Riders.')

Personally, I think there's something to this cowboy angle. After all, a cowboy sold the Moon Hoax, a cowboy stole the Oval Office...obviously there's a renegade strain polluting the noble cowpoke's bloodstream. Hopefully, further "serious research" will out this pox that's evidently been upon us for quite some time.

And you "aliens among us" folk lose big time. Think "ancient" & then think "ruins."

(If you have trouble picturing this buy Bradbury's Martian Chronicles, have someone go through it, scratching out the words "Mars" & "Martian," & replacing them with the words "Moon" and "Moon-Man," and then you read it.)

Oh yeah, & they told Kennedy.

That's why he was shot.

Or they didn't tell Kennedy.

& that's why he was shot.

I'm not exactly clear on that one, but I'm sure that once I plonk down the $24.95 cover price, & give it a good go through, everything will be as clear as a "glass-like lunar ruin."

Poor President Kennedy.

No wonder his back ached, muscles twisted taut with the weight of the alien bases & alien ruins & alien/human treaties & the attacks on Cuba.

Maybe-now bear with me here because I'm going way "outside the box" on this-just maybe Oswald really didn't do it. & maybe there was also no "hit team" responsible either. Maybe Kennedy's head just popped like an over-ripe pimple from the pressure of all that "secret knowledge" he was suddenly made privy to, once elected President.

(You "serious researchers" out there...I see a book here.)

For some strange reason, I keep picturing GW cutting his toenails during his big trip down "truth lane."

Looking shifty-eyed and bored, and muttering,
"Yeah, yeah. Sure. Whatever."

There's something Freudian there.

I'm sure of it.

Mr. Wells said this:

"We can see clearly enough to make out the broad strokes on the big canvas, and we can tell it's not going to be a pretty picture, but we're kidding ourselves - actually, entertaining ourselves - if we believe we know how it's all going to turn out."

Which made me think of this, from an attendee of what was billed as the first conspiracy conference-speakers included Cathy O'Brien, David Icke, William Thomas, Len Horowitz, Jordan Maxwell & William Lyne-who said this about David Icke:

"O'Brien is the real deal. With her, you feel you're getting closer to the bone, but it's Icke who makes this stuff sexy."

This cuts to the crux of why I keep coming back here...

... when you folks go on about serotonin levels & Masons & Martial Law, this place, quite frankly, makes me hot.

A virtual Viagra, if you will.

And, although this conspiracy theory conference was held just a few months prior to the Sept.11th World Trade Center attacks, none of these brilliantly "sexy" gentlemen bothered to foresee its dawning.

I know.

They must have been saving it for a future book.

10/17/2007 02:41:00 AM  
Blogger Sounder said...

Eric, thanks for Geven’s letter. I like his ‘tone’.

Fructidor, thanks for the kudos. I enjoy the content and style of your musings also.

Drew, not being an educated or deep thinker myself, maybe you can answer this for me. How well do you think the notion; the autonomous I is an illusion of current expressions of consciousness, mixes with ego preening?

10/17/2007 07:07:00 AM  
Blogger MultiOswald said...

But what about Theresa Duncan?!?! Has anyone read today's post @ Jeff?

10/17/2007 09:56:00 AM  
Blogger ericswan said...

I got a personal email from Eve and the only conclusion I could "intuit" was that this was Sabrina. I think she wanted me to "know" that.

10/17/2007 10:17:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm glad to see a learning curve on this blog post! haha.

Yes serotonin can cross the blood-brain barrier IF it is ionized -- as I discovered from reading "The Tangled Wing" by a Harvard physiologist who was the mentor to Stanford's Robert Sapolsky, with whom I've corresponded.

Sapolsky, btw, is developing the next line of psychotropics -- utilizing the PHA axis -- Pituitary-Hypothalamus-Adrenal Axis (sometimes the order is switched around and the Pineal is thrown in for good measure).

Amazingly my research is fuelled by finding out what the hell I've discovered through full-lotus yoga, the most intense training being in 2000, while taking classes from qigong master Chunyi Lin.

Chunyi Lin teaches Mayo Clinic doctors who refer patients to Chunyi Lin since he heals late-term cancer, paralysis, deafness, and a rare lung disease that the Mayo Clinic corroborated with x-rays.

Now then what causes the serotonin to be ionized -- the ultrasound -- which, contrary to popular belief -- can be heard by humans -- but, as the biophysics book "Magic of the Senses" by V. Droscher, details, ONLY WITHIN THE HEAD.

Hence the "inner ear" method of listening to the source of the I-thought.

No belief is necessary, just repeat I-I-I as an experiment of logical inquiry. In deep sleep there's no sense of spacetime nor of the body -- yet we awake the same person. Logically there must be subjective consciousness that is maintained beyond the sense of spacetime or the physical body.

When we awake the first thought is the I-thought. Dan Zahavi has a book: Self and Alterity. Only the I-thought has no signifier and all other thoughts and images and perceptions are based on this logical sense of I -- even when we dream.

So plunge into the mind to find out who is the "I" that exists beyond deep dreamless sleep.

Or you can wait for Dr. Roldolfo's microchip, detailed in his neuroscience book "I of the Vortex." Yes, just like the Jnanas, you too can have your heart-mind controlled so that your brain can be used as a quantum computer -- without you having any awareness of it (permanent deep sleep state).

The concept of I is based on the verb of "to be" which is not found in many languages! In fact the definition of God as "I Am that I Am" refers to the 4 states of reality.

I is the waking state while AM is AUM or OHM, refering to the dream and deep sleep state.

The 4th state is called Turiya and is represented by "that" because when formless awareness is resonated that it reflects back into the other three states:

I Am that I Am.

OK where's my spinach!

"that" is neither an image nor a word yet it creates all energy and matter and spacetime. It's pure consciousness or formless awareness.

So light goes into formless awareness. Ionization is a process not dependent on any one chemical -- DMT or Salvia or allicin or magnesium as a photoreceptor. All these things help -- peat moss is the original mercury. When birds sing in the morning the true purpose is that their song is mainly composed of ultrasound. The ultrasound heats up and ionizes the plants' stomata or cellular walls. The stomata are then able to take in nutrients from the morning dew, created by the sun-moon-earth dynamics.

That's alchemy my friends. There's harmonics of the body -- the mind itself is weak so will power comes from the kidney energy which transduces the sex hormones into neurochemicals -- this works via the vagus nerve.

Amazingly the trick for males (since most of Nature is female, and the male is unnecessary) is to learn how to have a female orgasm.

Recent research on female parapalgeics discovered that climax and orgasm is still achieved -- through the vagus nerve connection with the reproductive organs. This vagus nerve goes through the stomach, up the right side of the head, just behind the ear, and then into the right side of the brain.

Or you can repeat I-I-I which activates the left brain vagus nerve and then goes straight to the heart.

People can see my right-brain vagus nerve pulsates as I shoot out "yang" energy through the pineal gland -- through the forehead and the eyes. As the "yang" energy shoots into yin energy around me then there is space in my brain so the yin energy of the lower half of my body is sucked up into the brain, causing an INTERNAL orgasm.

This is how a person can sit in full-lotus. Now it's great to do external healing but for the natural resonance to feedback into the body the trick is to point the forehead toward the palms which are held in front of the stomach.

So the yang energy of the forehead shoots down to the yin energy of the palms, (you just lower your chin a bit and hold your palms at an angle a bit) then the yang energy reflects off the palms back into the yin energy of the body.

This is what I meant when I stated that the full-lotus is the original Klein Bottle as the "Yan Xin Secret" since this forehead-palms-stomach free energy feedback is a very ancient Tantra practice, also found in India.

As the energy builds up then it's focused in the central channel of the body -- the original renal system that goes all the way back to bioluminescent deep ocean worms!!

When this happens then the brain fills with light and the dead spirits or dissonant electrochemicals that had previously been feeding off your body are now exorcised -- transformed into harmonized light, as sent out of the white hole in your brain.

An Oxford Biology, JWS Pringle, argued that since memory is a function of time it's not stored in the brain but rather as a holographic wave-function. Because of the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle the location of the information is inversely proportional to the momentum of the information.

So, ironically, to increase the powers of paranormal reality a person has to tune themselves to a deeper level of formless awareness -- which is contrary to living a life based on intentional language and technology.

As Kurt Godel states in his interview with Rudy Rucker, in Rucker's book "Infinity and the Mind" --


This is because the natural resonance process is based on transforming the electrochemicals which are the emotions of the body -- so anger is liver, sadness is lungs, worry is pancreas, overexcitement is heart, fear is kidney.

This are all transformed and harmonized. Of course nutrition makes a huge difference -- so bananas and figs and fish all have high levels of serotonin.

Fasting is the quickest approach but requires a strong mind. Chemistry professor Rustom Roy held a "bigu" conference about Yan Xin. The results are published in peer-reviewed, Western journals. People have gone months without losing any weight -- yet eat no food.

You can even go without water and sleep. I once went 8 to 9 days on only a half glass of water, needing only 5 hours of sleep a night. At the end I healed my mom of a very strong case of smoker's legs -- she no longer needs surgical stockings, nor has to keep her legs elevated, nor has to sit after an hour of standing. Strong electromagnetic fields not only shot out of my hands but also the third eye.

Telepathy is just the direct conversion of electromagnetic fields from the brains of other people back into the 3rd Eye.

10/17/2007 11:45:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Tangled Wing: Biological Constraints on the Human Spirit by Melvin Konner (Paperback - Feb 1, 2003)

10/17/2007 11:46:00 AM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...


It's becoming somehow superfluous to keep saying "thanks!" because you & I just tend to vibrate in the same wavelengths so much. Of course Nature is a "she"--how could it be any other way? Even in the last days of the Empire, after these thousands of years of the apparent triumph (temporary, Pyrrhic victory?) of the patriarchical Dominionists, everyone is still able to step outside the universal conditioning of modern culture enough to recognize Mother Nature's gender.

This is why throwing out the "Great Man" concept of "progress" is so powerful. Controlling, harnessing, taming Nature has always been the pursuit of Western science, as opposed to melding the creativity & perception She's given us with the syntropic cycle which is the Life-Force.

You can take this metaphor literally or figuratively--both lead to the same place. If we start with the standard techno-historical timeline, you see the supposed "great leaps" from one bearded Zeus-head to another, with the token Marie Curie thrown in for good measure, in the linear progression of our "knowledge." The first problem with the standard model is that the "great discoveries" were very rarely the result of any single personage--collaboration and collusion, parallel emergence and outright theft are much more apt descriptions of these developments. James Burke has done much to shed light on this phenomenon with his Connections, although he invariably fails to recognize the second, far greater problem with the standard model: the illusion of progress.

Look at the mess we're in!

Now, it's at this point that all the disagreement commences. We know that there can be no political solution. Likewise, a purely technological fix won't repair what's broken inside us, but to the question of whether we should even try to do anything, I think the answer is fairly simple. It's terribly cliché, and I can't stand the Ayn Rand-ism it grew out of, but Rush's "Freewill" is more than a debate on whether freewill is even possible:

There are those who think that life has nothing left to chance
A host of holy horrors to direct our aimless dance

A planet of play things
We dance on the strings
Of powers we cannot perceive
'The stars aren't aligned
Or the gods are malign...'
Blame is better to give than receive

You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice...

Eric's note from Zero-Man (quoting the wonderful LeGuin--The Word for World is Forest, The Telling, The Dispossessed, The Left Hand of Darkness, The Lathe of Heaven, etc.) gets even closer:

"...And the truth is that as a man's real power grows and his knowledge widens, ever the way he can follow grows narrower: until at least he chooses nothing, but does only and wholly what he must do."

This is experience, direct, unmediated by all the blinders & tunneling telescopes, affiliations & entities by which we're supposed to be owned. There is such a thing as right action and it's not terribly complicated, either.

If empathy were universal instead of fear & greed, then no one would have to go without while others gorged & drowned themselves on consumer goods. No wars would be waged, no scarcities invented or manipulated, no watersheds destroyed. Peaceful abundance would obtain; creativity & love would inform...and only then would progress be possible.

We don't have to "turn back the clock" to when matrilineal societies were the norm; we just need to scrape off the concrete that the divided mind of man has poured over the path that was always there.

You inspire, surrender, because you're doing this--you're performing right action everyday.

I'm not selling anything so if you state that you do not "buy" something that's just further indication of a bourgeois approach to reality dependent on the commodity fetish.

Well, Drew, sometimes an expression is just an expression. I don't have a commodity fetish, my worldview is not "bourgeois," and your decision to employ a mono-faceted litmus test based on esoteric abstractions of very real phenomena is not the only choice open to us. Go ahead, diddle women from a distance and dazzle us with your superior intellect. I'll be interested when any of it has a single practical application to the issues of social & ecological justice.

'Til then, remember what Uncle Frank said:

The Mystery Man came over
An' he said: "I'm outa-site!"
He said, for a nominal service charge,
I could reach nervonna t'nite
If I was ready, willing 'n able
To pay him his regular fee
He would drop all the rest of his pressing affairs
And devote His Attention to me
But I said . . .
Look here brother,
Who you jivin' with that Cosmik Debris?
(Now who you jivin' with that Cosmik Debris?)
Look here brother,
Don't you waste your time on me

The Mystery Man got nervous
An' he fidget around a bit
He reached in the pocket of his Mystery Robe
An' he whipped out a shaving kit
Now, I thought it was a razor
An' a can of foamin' goo
But he told me right then when the top popped open
There was nothin' his box won't do
With the oil of Afro-dytee
An' the dust of the Grand Wazoo
He said:
"You might not believe this, little fella, but it'll cure your Asthma too!"
An' I said . . .
Look here brother,
Who you jivin' with that Cosmik Debris?
(Now what kind of a geroo are you anyway?)
Look here brother,
Don't you waste your time on me
Don't waste yer time . . .

I've got troubles of my own, I said
An' you can't help me out
So take your meditations an' your preparations
An' ram it up yer snout
"BUT I GOT A KRISTL BOL!," he said
An' held it to the light...

(I know, lots of references to buying & selling in there--what can a brainwashed, unenlightened American capitalist oppressor say? You are what you is, you know.)

10/17/2007 02:14:00 PM  
Blogger surrender said...


Well, OK here we go again, Thanks.

I was reminded of you when reading this:

"Nature is a symbol for a system that supports and sustains your identity in cooperation with celestial activities that continuously provide structure and meaning to Earthly existence. In order to wake up and accept your personal power, you must be willing to emerge from denial to activate the psychic sensitivities that will gift you with sensibilities to discern truth from deceit. The storm that is disturbing the world is a symbol of your own awakening consciousness. In the past humanity collectively chose to close down their psychic intuition, and now they are paying the full price of self-imposed ignorance.

Your consciousness is part of a dynamic dance of energy; you are swimming in a sea of subatomic particles where everything is in constant motion. These particles are differentiated by consciousness and selected for use by your own discretion. Subatomic particles are actively engaged in building realities; they are in constant contact with the entire field of existence. As our solar system moves through the new areas of space, you must personally incorporate the new dance of energy these places provide. The changes you are experiencing are actually occurring subatomically, and one could say with a bit of humor, that you are just along for the ride. Many levels of consciousness are involved in the transformation. As a human being, you experience the changes in 3-D reality, yet as you learn to integrate and incorporate more of this accelerated energy, you will invariably discover that what you are thinking is also being played out in numerous layers of reality. Part of your challenge during these years of transformation is to ride the wave of the subatomic particle revolution while learning to manage and direct your own awakening consciousness with clear intent. How you use your awareness and your attention will prove to be of utmost importance in the years ahead.

Various mundane and cosmic forces are aligned in a desperate battle for your attention because your attention represents where and how you focus your energy for creating the reality you encounter. In America, the courage to fearlessly ask questions is at the core of the country's spiritual karma. People have been clinging to various stages of denial for a long time and as a result of this inattentiveness to life, a behind-the-scenes breeding-ground for carrying out despicable deeds was easily fostered.

World leaders epitomize society's denial to affectively deal with the truth, and by playing out exaggerated versions of lies and deceit; they test your abilities of discernment. By claiming your rightful abilities to move your conscious awareness around the field of existence, you will experience direct knowledge and be able to tell the difference between truth and deceit. And you must claim these abilities in order to reach beyond the confines of physical reality to understand the power of the forces that challenge you to awaken. And once you awaken, you will not be so easily deceived again. The controlled media is used as a tool to pull your attention into a probable world that is devoid of vitality and creativity. By enticing your attention into a reality of violence and war, your thoughts and beliefs are conditioned to enslave you in VICTIMHOOD and complete disempowerment.

Humanity is learning about the utmost necessity of being able to recognize the proliferation of lies that have infiltrated every facet of society; yet after having lived for far too long in stages of deep denial by pretending they were hearing the truth, behaving in a truthful manner is challenging to everyone's courage. Lies are sometimes tempting to believe, because then you can avoid the personal responsibility of taking action. Honor yourself and embrace the courage that truth calls forth. Enjoy the freedom you are claiming to know yourself as an empowered being.

When people pay more attention to nature and care for the Earth rather than obsessing on war and financial portfolios, you will know the transition to greater awareness has truly taken hold. The land must be loved into vitality and nature must be recognized and cherished as an intelligently designed interactive system of information that connects you to layers upon layers of multi-dimensional realities. The use of poisons to destroy what you do not understand is another stage of denial that disavows the inherent meaning of life. Plants and creatures are very cooperative once you to learn to focus your attention and communicate with them. Throughout the seasons, be sure to spend much of your time in nature; turn off the air conditioning and open the windows, notice how the creatures keep the energy moving with their bustling activities. Immerse yourself in the sounds, sights, scents and tastes that nature offers. Take long walks, sleep on the ground for a change, enjoy a campfire and gather with friends and loved ones to watch the stars. Each year, the summer solstice sun takes you to the peak of perceptual attunement. Tune in by paying attention during this time; new energy always arrives and you certainly do not want to miss the latest news from the sun. Slow down and sit with the trees, spend leisurely afternoons in the meadows or by the sea, climb mountains to meet the rarefied energies, and savor the sweet sensations of nature's intelligence. Use your attention to focus on the dance of subtle energy; remember when you do not focus your attention with your own volition, others will grab it for a roller coaster ride through their own versions of reality.
No matter what situation arises, if you maintain conscious awareness and remain focused on your intentions, there is always a way to bend realty in your own direction in the process of changing beliefs. To bend any avenue of reality, you must first 'warm up the idea' and release any former beliefs of restriction. You heat up the field by focusing your attention on imagining what you want to transpire. Using most the reliable approach for bending reality to your desires, imagination is always the key first ingredient, then by adding clear intention, expectation and action, results will be realized. The energies of the next few years will activate in humanity. At this phase of the acceleration, it is most important for everyone to recognize the patterns and symbols that define your reality and intuit a new understanding behind their apparent meaning. Remember symbols are a sign of energy; do not get so attached to the symbols that you miss their greater teaching.

10/17/2007 03:22:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...



I keep hearing slightly different versions of the old retro-causation/anthropic principle that parts of that piece remind me of, especially the bits about the different energies/entities competing for our attention. According to the most recent version I came across, we're stuck (at least temporarily) with "laws" of the universe which we dreamt up a hundred years ago, a cycle that's speeding up...

Apparently, there existed a pre-human consciousness universe with fairly staid and "stationary" rules & qualities, but then once consciousness manifested itself, it began to bleed forward & backward across "time." Of course, you'd also have to figure in other consciousnesses--dogs, for example, also have consciousness, as do most living things, if we could get past our species-ism enough to recognize it.

A very strange universe, if you let it in your head for a few moments, because it includes all sorts of very outlandish stuff, from our descendants reaching back to help us to our ancestors reaching forward to shape us (and the world around us.)

Whether any of it is true is, I think, secondary to the mental exercise you can get from such stuff. I do know (or think I know) that if you pay attention to your kids, your favorite woods, etc, they certainly "respond" in some fashion or another, which in turn "shapes" us.

Maybe we're beyond malleable--maybe we're permeable.

10/17/2007 03:54:00 PM  
Blogger Zappa Freak said...

December 21st 2010

10/17/2007 06:20:00 PM  
Blogger CuriosityShop said...

Richard said:

"O'Brien is the real deal. With her, you feel you're getting closer to the bone, but it's Icke who makes this stuff sexy."

This cuts to the crux of why I keep coming back here...

... when you folks go on about serotonin levels & Masons & Martial Law, this place, quite frankly, makes me hot.

A virtual Viagra, if you will.

Ha! I’m at a loss for words.

And Shrub, from a 100 comments ago (you guys are on fire)

Tell your daughter you’re sorry and didn’t mean to scare her. Tell her that you meant we’re probably just all like a bunch of Pinocchio’s running around trying to find the Blue Fairy so she can make us real. And the trick is that if we are really nice and good hearted we make ourselves real. So she is surely real.

I surely hope that Jeff doesn’t get upset that it seems the comments here bounce all around. I think it’s pretty cool and far out. And Drew, you are the farthest. You are so way over my head.

But it is all wonderful and good. Surrender you are wonderful, and so are many others thoughts and IC that last message was the most elegant description of what I call the dance of the divine.

A very strange universe, if you let it in your head for a few moments, because it includes all sorts of very outlandish stuff, from our descendants reaching back to help us to our ancestors reaching forward to shape us (and the world around us.)

Whether any of it is true is, I think, secondary to the mental exercise you can get from such stuff. I do know (or think I know) that if you pay attention to your kids, your favorite woods, etc, they certainly "respond" in some fashion or another, which in turn "shapes" us.

that is so elegant!

Males hold the visible power and females hold the invisible power. I think there is some facet that we have all lost inside of us. How recent is it that man feels that it is up to him to fix everything and to make it better. There is a point that one has to trust the Mother and stop trying to control her. She is a wild, dancing creature and man has tried to impose his will on her and it’s most definitely not working.

Here is a very recent article on the bee mystery,

Everyone has a theory why the honeybees started dying off. Try malnutrition.

Illinois is the STATE OF CORN! One crop farming, and now most of that crop is planted for fuel, not food.
We spray herbicides everywhere to kill the natural wildflowers, we turn everything into a parking lot or roads, and plant corn on all the land. I just read recently that America now imports over 98% of the apple juice we drink, and it comes from China. How crazy is that?

I left a word on here a little while back, I don’t think it caught anyone’s eye, but it fits right in with this conversation. It is a very old, old word and helps one to understand some of the basic things that we are no longer taught or maybe we just forgot, (or maybe the corporate world wants you to forget)

Paratge ( Peerage):
"Paratge" translates literally into English as peerage, but this gives almost no clue to the significance or meaning of the word in medieval Occitania.

Paratge denoted a whole world-view, almost a philosophy, as alien to the modern mind as it was to the medieval French Crusaders. The word meant something more than honour, courtesy, nobility, chivalry or gentility though our concepts of honour, courtesy, nobility, chivalry and gentility all owe something to the concept of "paratge".

The word also carried implications of balance, natural order, and what is right. Paratge does not seem to have been a distinctly Cathar notion. The Count of Toulouse could reportedly use the word to the Pope in reminding him of his duty to paratge. In any case we have no indication of any disagreement between the two belief systems, which appear to have coexisted in complete harmony. If it seems odd that we have even the faintest echo of the concept in English, it is well to remember that Occitan was the first language of many in England, including two queens (Eleanor of Aquitaine, and John's wife Isobel) and an English King, Richard I).

The nearest concept to paratge we know of elsewhere seems to be the ancient Egyptian idea of Ma'aht - another untranslatable word carrying suggestions of right, cosmic balance and natural order to which may be added ideas of contentment, joy and light. In the modern world, the nearest we can come to it is probably in Eastern philosophies: the yin-yang and the Buddhist ideas of karma and what is "right".

The word paratge was used extensively in Occitan writings, and it features heavily in the works of troubadours and especially in the Song of the Cathar Wars. If you knew that a man upheld paratge, then that was pretty much all you needed to know about him. Similarly, if you knew that he despised paratge then again that was all you needed to know.

And for those who hate this stuff, close your eyes and scroll fast
Hippie music ahead –
GDM - Get Together (The Youngbloods)
Love is but the song we sing,
And fear's the way we die
You can make the mountains ring
Or make the angels cry
Know the dove is on the wing
And you need not know why
C'mon people now,
Smile on your brother
Ev'rybody get together
Try and love one another right now
Some will come and some will go
We shall surely pass
When the one that left us here
Returns for us at last
We are but a moments sunlight
Fading in the grass
C'mon people now,
Smile on your brother
Ev'rybody get together
Try and love one another right now
If you hear the song I sing,
You must understand
You hold the key to love and fear
All in your trembling hand
Just one key unlocks them both
It's there at your command
C'mon people now,
Smile on your brother
Ev'rybody get together
Try and love one another right now
Right now
Right now!

Ahhh, those damn hippies and their peace and love! Quaker, Amish type thoughts aren’t they?

Here some more of those type of thoughts from The Quaker Agitator
“Be patterns, be examples in all countries, places, islands, nations wherever you come; that your carriage and life may preach among all sorts of people, and to them; then you will walk cheerfully over the world, answering that of God in everyone; whereby in them you may be a blessing, and make the witness of God in them to bless you.”

In other words, if I have this right, Fox isn’t asking us to measure “that of God” in each person (as in, some have some, some have a lot, some have… who knows?). He’s saying that ALL of us have “that of God” in us, and that, as Friends, we must start there. All of us are God’s creation, God’s children: we all have a place in the choir. It’s not about looking for the “goodness” or the Light in people, as much as it’s recognizing that, above all, we are all “of God.” This Friend went on to address the first part of that quote, that it’s up to Quakers, who recognize this, to move through the world in a way that is based entirely on this recognition. We must bring this out in ourselves, and perhaps by doing that, we will bring it out in others. If we do that, not only will we be blessed by “that of God” in those we meet, but we can bless others by blessing them with “that of God” in us, thus helping to improve the state of love in world.

Wonderful thoughts, the world is not so dark after all.

Little ripples of light are sparkling down all around you.

10/17/2007 06:30:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I guess my reptilian link got cut off so I'll just repost the information since it connects IC's Schauberger research with my own rants. Enjoy!

If you read the book “Eyes of the Night: Witchcraft among the Senegalese”—by William Scranton Simmons, a top Ph.D. anthropologist, I think Harvard-trained — then the evidence is all too real for shape-shifting reptilians.

Further strong evidence is in “Iron, Gender, and Power: Rituals of Transformation in African Societies (African Systems of Thought)” by professor Eugenia W. Herbert (Paperback – Dec 1993)

Also on David Icke’s first t.v. appearance — my understanding is Icke had some spiritual vision in the Andes.

In fact when I travelled to the Andes in 1998 — to Venuzuela in support of the Chavez election — I too had this amazing spiritual vision.

Then I came across peer-reviewed, Ph.D. medical research proving that elevation dramatically increases the melatonin levels which then turn into D.M.T. The study tested mountain climbers melatonin levels.

Westernized, modern people have totally lost touch with the right-brain awareness which enables body-mind transformation if certain rituals are practiced in a very strict environment.

A good text on these practices is “Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality” — I did that experiment as my final class for my graduate degree.

Also highly recommend is Dr. Paul Stoller's "In the Shadow of Sorcery" wherein, doing Ivy-League anthropology research in Mali, Stoller gets inadvertently trained in sorcery.

The person who trains him has poisonous snakes constantly "materializing" underneath his sleeping mat! These "shape-shifting" reptilians are "teleported" by competing sorcerors.

Dr. Stoller's work was ridiculed by Professor I.M. Lewis (some bigshot expert anthropologist) and Stoller was kind of freaked out by the whole experience but then about 10 years ago Stoller got cancer and returned to his sorcery chants as a means of treating his condition. for similar healing telekinetic powers.

And just for the record Icke doesn't cite any of these Ivy-league anthropologists. So this is a bit of independent corroboration. Of course to extend this evidence to his claim requires some chains in causation that I'd be happily to supply if anyone is interested.

My perspective is that science IS freemasonry (just read professor David F. Noble's "The Religion of Technology", 1996).

Freemasonry doesn't have to be secret shape-shifting evil-doers that go bowling together.

Freemasonry can be a STRUCTURAL "deep disharmony" (math professor Luigi Borzacchini) and in fact UC-Berkeley math professor Abraham Seidenberg verified this fact with his ritual origins of geometry as separation of heaven and earth.

I myself had a close encounter with a black triangle, driven by pulsed plasma -- summer of 1997. I discovered three other sightings in my area, listed on MUFON.

The "containment of infinity" through the "squaring of the circle" has now been documented to go back to "the symbolic revolution" of 10,000 BCE when all circular houses were destroyed so that anthropomorphic war-based culture could expand through rectilinear iron-based technology.

Well it seems like casting a wide net but on geological terms, 10,000 BCE is nothing and 90% of modern human history is in hunter-gatherer cultures.

So modern science is a Left-brain linguistic phenomenon but the axiomatic logic of god: "I Am that I Am" is also the Freemasonic shape-shifting technique of resonating the I-thought to create free energy.

The highest yoga is Jnana yoga of Advaita Vedanta wherein the Brahmin literally kills himself, stops his heart for 15 minutes, thereby "cutting the knot" and achieveing "eternal liberation" as an UnDead Zombie (see the books of Sri Ramana Maharshi for explicit descriptions).

This is done by repeating I-I-I-I over and over again to INFER it's source as eternal empty awareness.

So after achieving eternal liberation as a Zombie any "morals" are cast off as unnecessary and a full-on, left-brain, logical development of right-hand technology can ensue -- the separation of Heaven and Earth using the "deep disharmony" of "containing infinity."

Right-brain culture was much stronger in the ancient matrilineal horticulture societies, as documented by the use of the Lyre harp for poetry-based information storage.

Anyway there was basically a "reversal" of energy in the human so that modern science is grounded on an UnDead Zombie resonance of shape-shifting technology (be it axiomatic logic-based magic of Brahmins or axiomatic logic-based technology of black triangles using electro-gravitic or SCHAUBERGER pulsed propulsion).

Professor Bart Kosko's new book "NOISE" is an excellent example and no coincidence that he's a regular guest on Art Bell's Coast to Coast CIA propaganda show.

Yeah well the DMT studies brought up very explicit "alien abduction" visions (DMT is the active substance in a lot of psychotropics and it's also produced naturally by the pineal gland. DMT is vastly increased by altitude as well through increased melatonin levels).

Dr. Michael Persinger (with whom I recently corresponded) has also produced alien abuction visions using strong magnetic fields on "subjects."

He and I chatted about CIA mind control scientist Dr. Andrija Puharich whose book "Beyond Telepathy" gives a model about how the increased electromagnetic resistance from potassium to sodium ratios in the neurons creates a warping of spacetime through

MAGNETIC FIELDS (this is because the angular momentum of the electron stays the same but the magnetic momentum between the proton and the electron can vastly increase).

Puharich was really brilliant and inspired me to do a three day fruit juice fast (high in potassium and no sodium). The results were awesome (along with lots of pyramid power full-lotus yoga of course).

No I did not have an "alien abduction" encounter but one psychological hypothesis is that females often have their babies abducted or they are impregnated (by aliens of course) and the mad scientists conjecture that the big, gray alien bulbous head is a REM-DMT vision of the fetus (or embryo or whatever your suppose to call that epigenetic blood clot thing in the womb).

But I will state that these big black triangles are supposedly powered by "pulse propulsion" through some electro-gravitic engine that very likely

USES THE SAME INCREASE IN MAGNETIC MOMENTUM as occurs in paranormal visions of the neurons.

If we realize that reality is truly a holograph then 3-D spacetime is mainly a byproduct of bifocal vision for humans (while we still have that pineal gland connected to the most concentrated neurons in the brain -- the reptilian cerebellum).

So cerebellum visions connects us with our evolutionary reptilian past -- the TROODONS were by far the smartest dinosaurs and increasingly human or Sagan like.

Speaking of Sagan -- Spectography (created by the paranormal investigate CROOKES of the Royal Society of London aka Freemasons) is still a highly contentious technology so all these anomalies of NASA are just that -- psychological reflections of the warped consciousness of science.

10/17/2007 08:51:00 PM  
Blogger Mark said...

GGG said:

"Amazingly my research is fuelled by finding out what the hell I've discovered through full-lotus yoga, the most intense training being in 2000, while taking classes from qigong master Chunyi Lin.

Ah! Thanks for saying that. I was wondering about the motivational interest.

And as for bird ultrasound, you'll certainly appreciate knowing about this:


Organic Farming made easy!
The best organic fertilizer in the world! [sound/harmonics that mimic birdsong]

Sonic Bloom has increased production by
50-500% !!!

STOP PRESS: In June 2003 the Indonesian Government put on an expo with 100 tables - but the main purpose of the show was to show off a five or so acre field of corn that had been grown with Sonic Bloom - and so was 13' tall, not the usual 5' tall!!! There was not a clicker on the gate, but it is thought that upwards of ONE MILLION people attended!!!!

Previously, the Indonesian government got a 100% increase in rice and a 100% increase in tea using Sonic Bloom. They are now planning (April 2002) to grow ONE MILLION HECTARES of rice with Sonic Bloom!

[of course the world has never had a problem with lack of food or commodities, hunger and starvation have come at the loss of purchasing power for small farmers of that food...good book on this and other world hunger myths]

SONIC BLOOM UPDATE: Last year Dan Carlson, inventor of Sonic Bloom, was nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize!

Wilson Mill's Circle K Orchard in Wisconsin, has used Sonic Bloom for 8 years. He gets larger, healthier trees, bigger yields, better fruit quality, fewer insects, higher sugar level, earlier maturity, and a shelf life of five months. He beats his competitors to market by two weeks! Yield is 490+ bushels/acre (vs. 290 average).

LEFT: Without Sonic Bloom
RIGHT: With Sonic Bloom

(Note the massive amount of fruit increase)

Sonic Bloom consists of a combination of sounds which are the same frequency as the singing of birds, plus leaf spray organic fertilizer.

While academics have a hard time believing that sound can affect plant growth, all we and many farmers can says is - IT WORKS!!!

Organic Farming Results from using Sonic Bloom (below)

History and Explanation of Sonic Bloom
Questions and Answers about Sonic Bloom
Sonic Bloom PRODUCTS (for Organic Farming)
Article from the Star Tribune July 1999 with PHOTOGRAPHS

Note: The following results can be seen on the video ``Seeing is Believing".

History and Explanation of Sonic Bloom

Extracted from the excellent book "Secrets of the Soil" by Peter Tompkins & Christopher Bird, 1989

Gardening Tip: READ `SECRETS OF THE SOIL'!!! It gives DOZENS of wonderful ways to greatly increase the growth and productivity in your farm or garden, and to repair out planet.

Plants, says Steiner, can only be understood when considered in connection with all that is circling, weaving, and living around them. In spring and autumn, when swallows produce vibrations as they flock in a body of air causing currents with their wing beats, these and birdsong, says Steiner, have a powerful effect on the flowering and fruiting of plants.

A bird's-eye view across country south and east of La Belle, midway between the great Lake Okeechobee and Sanibel Island, reveals an ocean of citrus orchards cut by a skein of dusty 'sea lanes', extending for miles toward the shores of the Gulf of Mexico, once a paradise for seashell hunters until ravaged by pollution.

Any bird overflying this greensward in the mid-1980s would have been perplexed by the lack of avian fellows among millions of orange trees growing in the confines of Gerber Grove, saturated by a fog of chemicals laid down to ward off swarms of insects - except in Section 1. There a multitude of feathered fauna darted among the trees or perched singing in their branches.

To this oasis the birds had been attracted, not by a natural concert of their colleagues; but by a sonic diapason* closely resembling birdsong, which to human ears, incapable of distinguishing its varied harmonics, recalls the chirping of a chorus of outsized crickets. *(diapason: The full range of notes)

This sonic symphony was being emitted from a series of black loudspeaker boxes set atop twenty-foot poles, each resounding over an oval of about forty acres. Its purpose ..."

excerpted from:

10/17/2007 10:00:00 PM  
Blogger just_another_dick said...

IC, I seem to remember you wondering aloud about starroute's whereabouts.

Go to the bottom of this cannonfire story:

& you'll find her.

Unless someone else is using that name-tag that is.

10/17/2007 10:19:00 PM  
Blogger Mark said...

Jeff said:

"It's a perverse fact of the conspiracy industry that it incubates credulity within those who claim to "Question Everything."

Nice short Japanese koan you had there.

Same principle in small cults that want to separate you from everything in the name of cleansing you from 'bad outside influences, claiming to help you question everything--except themselves?

Amusing video, or not so amusing, since it does happen:

Mind Control Cults (approx 12 minutes)

A genius video about how to start a cult....

10/18/2007 07:02:00 AM  
Blogger ericswan said...

Just what is it that Wiki does for you?
Comments: After 9/11, a number of butt-sucking American telecommunications firms rushed to voluntarily supply any interested government agency with as much data on their subscribers as they could. These are, but are not limited to, SBC and its AT&T, Wikipedia, AOL and others. They are still doing so and Bush has been trying to hold them legally harmless for their illegal activities. Best advice is not to use any of these firms.

No thanks to live links wiki...

10/18/2007 07:20:00 AM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

No time to respond to the many wonderful comments right now (except to wonder if that Sonic Bloom in Wisconsin story might apply to this little item):


This just in from the wire:

Posted October 17, 2007

Group hopes to spur state hemp industry

For The Fond du Lac Reporter

RIPON — A group promoting the rebirth of the hemp industry in Wisconsin will meet this week in Ripon.

The advocacy organization, Wisconsin Hemp Order, will meet at 7 p.m. Thursday, Oct. 18, in the Little White Schoolhouse on Blackburn Street in Ripon.

The meeting takes place on the 90th anniversary date of the founding by regional hemp growers and processors of the Wisconsin Hemp Order in Ripon.

While the last American hemp mill in Brandon closed in 1957, the area is still ripe to be the center of a revived hemp industry once legal impediments are removed, according to a press release from the Wisconsin Hemp Order.

The keynote address Thursday will be delivered by David P. West, the last holder of a government permit for hemp research.

More information is available by contacting Order Secretary Ben Masel at (608) 442-8830 or or West at


So you see--we're not just the home of Joe McCarthy and the John Birch Society...we've got the heart of the Hemp Revival, too.


Great stuff!

Movie Girl,

Your intelligence obviously does not reside in your's everywhere. That's non-locality!


Thanks, I'll see if I can look her up.

10/18/2007 09:49:00 AM  
Blogger Mark said...

I want to make a statement to relate the discussion back to the point of the comments if it wasn't clear.

What do all these alternative materials and ideas have to do with conspiracy?

A great part of many conspiracies have to do with artifically reducing your material options, knowledge, or capacity for action. It's not the conspiracy that keeps everything in place: it's habitual daily life.

So it's not enough just to know you are screwed. Any process of action away from that is a recovery of your options as real as anything else sold by the elite-supported framework.

10/18/2007 10:32:00 AM  
Blogger surrender said...


We're not screwed unless we really want that to be our reality. I am not screwed are you? It's those others of humanity that are screwed and getting screwed more and more. So those of us who are not screwed (yet) have a responsibilty to those who are getting screwed daily.

You said that daily life holds everything together. I say it is consciousness that holds everything together. And in all the previous post of mine, I was trying to get across that we have choice in what and how to absorb and discern all the information or conspiracy "theories" we are bombarded with.

Isn't it "truth" of how thing are rather than how it has been fed to us for centuries that we are pursuing? and to what end?

So that we can pull ourselves out of the belief that we are vicitms of the forces that are perceived as greater that we are and to stop believing the lie that we have no power to create our reality or transform beyond the inevitable annihilation of mankind.

Thanks Movie Girl!! as always

10/18/2007 12:55:00 PM  
Blogger Fructedor said...

IC - 10/16/2007 03:51:00 PM - thanks for your kind comment, I appreciate it.

And GGG - I have to say honestly that I've mostly read your posts diagonally - these are really long posts, and honestly I don't have the time to get into much of your info, particularly since it would cost me much research to get up to speed. However, it would appear that we agree on one important element - that there is something fundamentally skewiff with the tool that humanity has developed over the centuries as a means of deciphering the universe. The universe is too subtle to be perceived efficiently by the tools we traditionally rely on - but I believe the tools we need are there within us, they have to be, all we need is to develop the muscle. Spinach?

From where I stand, the weakness seems to be a lack of balance between the operations of the left and right brain - I'm definitely more of a right-brain fellow, which is perhaps why I am so strongly attracted to music. Learning to play also taught me the necessity of attempting to harmonise the two spheres, however, because left-brain info is very important for the transmission of musical ideas, particularly when the music you're playing demands precision beyond the scope of beer and weed, which were the fuels of choice for most of the musicians I started playing with.

Perhaps you can help direct me to a piece of info I found on the web years ago and have since lost. We measure sound waves in Herz, and wwhat we call octaves are said to be mathematical doubles - 440 Hz - the note A - becomes it's octave at 880 Hz, a different frequency but resounding to us as a higher A.

I remember reading a piece by someone who worked from the time taken by the earth to circle the sun - when this time was reduced by a certain large number of octaves, (halved, then halved again etc), the result was a note audible to human ears which sounded somewhere between what we now call C and C#. Apparently this note was found to be emitted by several ancient musical artefacts discovered by archeologists (flutes, I presume) at different times and from different continents. Does any of this sound familiar? I'd love to find that piece, if only to do the math and check it.

Also, a comment about the influence of vibration - a very obvious one - this was a study done in the USA about the effects of high-tension electricity lines on people who lived nearby. When asked to hum a note at random, the majority of the people studied would hum the note which was being emitted by the power lines, although this note was inaudible to them at their location. So how about the vibrations emitted by Hollywood and TVland? Or National Education? Or Churches? The Muzik Bizz?

One last thing - the experiment that was carried out in Washington DC in the '90's - some character decided to organise a number of people to meditate for peace during the summer - as I remember, the chief of police actually went on record as claiming that the only thing that would lower the crime rate in Washington in summer would be three feet of snow. The crime rate did drop during the 'peace-in', apparently.

10/18/2007 01:03:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yes Dan Carlson did his "sonic bloom" research at the same school I got my masters degree at -- the U of Minnesota. He's based in Minnesota.

Agroforestry is really based on the moon cycle. Even Western farmers relied on Lunar Farming until the Gilded Age rushed in the corporate "standardized" time units set down by the Railroad-Steel-Finance-Distribution Freemasons (read: "The Age of Betrayal," 2007).

I read Cargill's biography (the world's largest commodity company) -- he was a Freemason secretary and this is how he got a special bank dealer. Then he made Rockefeller his national banker, cashing in on the railroad "practicality" of economy of scale. Cargill is headquartered in Minnesota (my friends locked down to a car blocking their entrance). Pillsbury, the father of the U of MN, was Skull and Bones.

Rockefeller then set Cargill up in the Amazon which now produces as much soybeans as the U.S. -- literally replacing the brain of the planet with SILICA.

Now it's fascinating that this blog post has been linked by Conspiracy Archive -- sent out by Terry -- who does not believe in global warming, the same anti-global warming position as found on

I have some firsthand experience since I was three feet from Al Gore for half an hour in the basement of a VFW. He was surrounded by 12 secret service men and I by twelve black-block anarchists.

Gore was on the defensive about his family money coming from oil that was destroying the U'Wa tribal forest in Colombia. He, the VICE-PRESIDENT, admitted that he could not change his stock portfolio out of Oxy Petroleum.

Even a Rockefeller can not change their stocks because family trusts are controlled by corporate lawyers who are legally bound to pursue "fiduciary responsibility" -- i.e. maximize profits. The law is abstract and the corporation is a person, protected by the bill of rights, yet is infinite in lifetime.

When I pointed out that "everyone knows the CIA controls the drug trade" not only did Gore manifest a peculiar look of "he knows what's going on" but his secret service got fidgety. After Gore continued to try to defend U.S. imperialism, I told Gore -- look "it's all over. There's no point in looking for more oil and we can't do it."

When he was leaving the room, after the S.S. stated "C'Mon Gore let's go" as I left the other end I yelled "The blood of the U'Wa is on your conscience."

Now there were helicopters in the lot and I did get pulled over by the cops (the City Mayor was pissed we had crashed her staged press conference). The cop just took my drivers license, came back to my car and stated: thanks. No explanation.

Well regardless I haven't had a car since, as that was back in 2000.

I'm reading "India After Gandhi: The History of the World's Largest Democracy" by Ramachandra Guha (2007, HarperCollins).

It's a tome to say the least but what is striking is that tribes living in forests using subsistence agroforestry, collecting honey and herbs were considered "not practical."

Especially when forests can be converted to monocultural farming or mined for iron or coal or cleard out for a dam.

Traditional cultures see the forest as the "mind" of Earth -- and Professor Robert Nadeau's book "The Wealth of Nature" details how even quantum chaos supercomputers can not model the complexity of forest ecology.

The fact is that even atomic fission relies on quantum tunnelling yet Mother Nature uses quantum tunnelling all the time through what I termed "sound-current nondualism."

My first comment on this post was how I had a dream about my activist friends with Native activists standing on the roof of a house to protect a forest.

This dream was more vivid than being awake and I immediately wrote in my journal, at 2:30 a.m., that I thought the dream predicted the future.

I forgot about the dream but then 3 years later I was part of a campaign to stop the destruction of a sacred forest area dubbed by activists and featured as a front-page story several times in the Earth First! Journal as:

The Minnehaha Free State.

As I stated I not only had a strange feeling while looking at a newspaper photo exactly the same as my dream but I then happened to reread my old journal, discovering the dream recorded -- from three years before!

What I didn't mention was at the time I had the dream, in 1995, I was listed in the Earth First! Journal as the local contact, under a zine I had cranked out from a typewriter called "paddlefish first!"

This zine is still mentioned online. Paddlefish, by the way, have been documented under quantum chaos science, to use nonlinear resonance as telepathy (electromagnetic communication through the paddle).

Birds have also been recently documented to SEE MAGNETIC LINES -- this explains the mystery of migration that Sheldrake has pondered so much.

The question is how do birds see magnetic fields -- the same way telepathy is achieved in humans.

Chromatophores are the active molecule for bird's ability to see magnetic fields. This pigment is found in great abundance in plants -- especially bioluminescent life in the ocean and spirulina.

The magnesium in plants, along with the pigments, activates the photoreceptors of the pineal gland. This is why spirulina is so excellent (and spinach).

It's also why forests are the brain of the planet -- they are inherently telepathic.

The "practicality" of European science is actually controlled by the North Atlantic current, as Professor William H. Calvin so well details in his book "The Ascent of Mind."

Those who study global warming know that this current being essentially reversed from industrialism will not only put London under water but will also cause another Ice Age for Europe.

These feedback cycles can not be determined by the supercomputers, nor do the supercomputers CARE -- this is the point of Professor Robert Nadeau's latest book "The Environmental Endgame."

I think Nadeau probably shifted his focus when he noticed that the Economist review of his "Wealth of Nature" book did not even mention the main subject of the book -- quantum chaos mathematics. Economists are in great denial because they are so focused on what is "practical."

Now in India forests became "commericialized" in the late 1940s and thereby were given a "market value." Ironically the "market value" of forests is best measured by just leaving them the hell alone. Nature is the most practical.

But in ecology, in the 1990s, there was a shift to "quantum chaos" ecology arguing that there is no "climax forest" because Nature is just constantly changing and therefore technology is just part of natural evolution.

We can see that this then lead to Richard Dawkins and other social Darwinists to promote "synthetic ecology" -- as if all of Nature can be "computer designed."

The whole "Natural Capitalist" movement, led by the bourgeois fanatic Paul Hawkins, is just the left-version of this "science will save us" mentality.

Funny how Hawkins actually thought that genetic engineering would be a good thing.

Actually a professor at the U of Minnesota whom I know, Phil Regal, was the first biologist to warn the U.N. that bioengineering of bacteria, planned to be released in the oceans in the 1980s, could potentially destroy all life in the ocean.

His latest research on genetic engineering is just as severely critical -- genetic engineering is inherently against ecology. DNA relies on quantum tunnelling as well!

Regal also published research examining the effects of electromagnetic pollution on agroforestry.

Current humans are exposed to 40 times the level of electromagnetic radiation then just a couple generation agos.

I actually agree with Conspiracy Archive and Conspiracy Central that global warming is just a fake scheme for the elite liberal finance institutions to further commodify the brain of the planet.

I'm speaking with inside knowledge on the issue as well, as I still work at an environmental nonprofit that has quickly automated in lieu of cashing in on Rockefeller corporate environmental grants. But I can state that although the science of Alexander Cockburn's global warming arguments is not accurate his politics about how Gore is actually a front for clean coal and nukes hits home. No one can predict when the nuke power fuel rods will crack, just as no one can predict the result, nor determine the true cause of global warming.

Applying Schauberger's Cycloid-Spiral Space-Curve motion to the planet as a whole we can see that the tectonic plates are controlled by the convection energy produced through atomic fission at the core of the planet.

Essentially the law of gravity is being repealed. The core of Earth is being studied with superconducting technology that, ironically, views the core of the Earth as a potential source for superconducting free energy, thereby transforming the whole planet into a quantum holograph.

This sounds insane but that's quantum chaos science for you. And surely the Von Neumann tranhuman probes will enable us to help the Universe Evolve because that is the PRACTICAL role for science as per Yale's James Gardner's -- the "top science book of the year" Discover magazine recipient -- author of BIOCOSM and other technospiritual tracts.

Luckily the Moon power is stronger than modern humans realize. We have twenty years left of water on the planet -- that's a much worse crisis than oil, yet notice how the lack of water hardly gets any attention at all!

Gurdjieff knew about the secret power of the Moon to destroy civilization.

10/18/2007 01:56:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The universe is too subtle to be perceived efficiently by the tools we traditionally rely on - but I believe the tools we need are there within us...

Perhaps we are ourselves tools through which the Universe is perceived. If so, a tool for whom or what makes for an interesting question. It would lend itself to the Simulation Theory though, wouldn't it?

10/18/2007 02:05:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

You guys know where all this is headed, right? Movie Girl and surrender’s shining examples/patterns of love, Mark’s Sonic Bloom-frequency-of-growth (complete with references to Steiner’s diamagnetism, to which there is yet another Schauberger connection, sketched out briefly here), and also to Drew and Fructedor’s left brain/right brain imbalance idea…it takes us right back to the whole Music of the Spheres/Vibratory Universe idea.

As a quick aside, Fructedor, you are aware of the great shift in sound made in Western music when the harpsichord gave way to the paino, right? It’s actually only the latest in a series of changes that have taken place over thousands of years, but even in this relatively minor shift, if you listen to Bach (I know, Drew, I know…) played on an old scale tuned harpsichord, it sounds very, very different from the way we normally hear it today.

Here’s an article that talks about these shifts and even the stranger notion that there have also occurred shifts in the tones of colors, which is, apparently, one of the portals of alchemy…and what is the shifting of shapes if not alchemy? Transmutation, transformation…if All is One, then jumping from one state to the next should be manageable, if not necessarily advisable.

It might well be that these changes--the official shifts in tone--are intentionally sinister, something along the lines of Drew’s freemasonic/left brain dissect-the-world technology, but we have to recognize that the source of the power that was misappropriated by the Owners is greater than those petty tyrants. If there is an inherently evil technology, or evil focus of the power of The Source, than there’s also the possibility of another technology that might only be one widdershins turn away from the world as it is.

Here’s an example. Drew says, “Agroforestry is really based on the moon cycle.” If you read Schauberger, he talks a great deal about the importance of performing certain forestry-related tasks in the light of the moon. In fact, for him the moon plays an absolutely critical role in the restorative portion in the cycle of the life of the forest.

The symbolic relationship of Lunar/Solar and right brain/left brain thinking may be one case where the map is the territory.

The vortex is Nature’s generator. It’s also the shape of the galaxy, of a woman’s body and untold numbers of loci of power in the universe, including the human heart.

What we’re talking about here is the parable of the swords and the plowshares which has, I think, been twisted from its original meaning. We’re real keen on making swords but not nearly as excited about our real jobs as stewards of the earth: to enhance and quicken the life of the planet.

There’s no question that the power of The Source has been twisted & corrupted to the ends of the Overlords, but they don’t own it.

It seems to me that there are two distinct paths we can take as we walk in the Light. One would be the Lunar tech path, which snatches the vortex back from the CIA and recalibrates it for peaceful, life enhancing purposes. Dan Winter may have been something of a nut, or a quack, depending on your POV, but not everyone is willing to let the bad guys keep the spiral vortex on the weaponry side of Bucky’s weaponry/livingry divide.

Another path is the purely personal, the sort of pattern-teaching by example that Movie Girl & surrender are talking about.

Surrender actually walks both of those paths simultaneously, since she’s spreading love while she’s replanting the world (a type of “technological” pursuit, after all.)

In Drew’s Qigong link we find this description of a very relevant book:

Healing Our World - Guided Healing Meditation

The great man of peace Mahatma Gandhi said, "Love is the simplest force in the universe. It is also the most powerful," This is so true. The greatest healing and creative power in the universe is pure, unconditional love.

All of this might sound flaky as hell to the outside world, but it makes a kind of intuitive sense to those of us who’ve opened ourselves to thinking about notions that flow, magically enough, upstream. At the risk of invoking all the four ancient elements of earth, air, fire & water, the metaphor of water flowing is also very important here.

We’re told that bottled water is “pure” when it’s actually lifeless. This is one area of the insights of Viktor Schauberger that the CIA has not managed to obfuscate or twist to their own ends, the one that was actually most important to him. Water is the lifeblood of the earth and the key to our survival. No reforestation, no re-greening of the earth…not even the “magic” of the Sonic Bloom frequency can occur without life-giving water.

Unknown or at least disregarded by mainstream science, water is not inert or “lifeless”—it contains an energy that is simply very little understood. There is a cycle to the energy of water that the hydrologists don’t recognize and it has to do with rest and temperature. Just as with the matrilineal, curvilinear houses Drew mentioned, the rest state, or storage vessel for living water should be round or, better yet, egg-shaped.

Temperature is to water what frequency is to waves in other states--the magic temperature of water is 4 Celsius. For a quick overview of this, try Uncle Harry’s Infobase (I know, sounds real "scientific," but...)

Water also has memory, but so do we, by which I mean that these ideas resonate with us because we remember, on some very deep and normally unexplored level that we are part of the cycle of water, too. All episodes of cosmic consciousness are described as sensing the connectedness of all life and these discussions on a “conspiracy/alternate perspective” website are the stage where the static, official picture we’ve demolished is put back together so that the puzzle pieces finally fit.

And that is what makes this place different. We don’t just bitch about how rotten the world is, we go the next step and use our only divine attributes, our creativity and our love to try to see it as it should be.

(This doesn't mean that science--especially as we know it!--will save us, Drew, but you see where I'm going with this.)

10/18/2007 03:59:00 PM  
Blogger Fructedor said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

10/18/2007 05:28:00 PM  
Blogger Fructedor said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

10/18/2007 05:29:00 PM  
Blogger Fructedor said...

IC - I don't believe I've ever heard Bach on a scale-tuned harpsichord - I don't know much about the tonal changes apart from the "well-tempered" flattening changes made to make modulation easier, information on that via Mark.

You must know of this -

10/18/2007 05:37:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...


I just heard a radio program on all this recently--I'll see if I can dig something up. One of the stranger aspects of it is that some folks say there was no uniform tuning previous to the new set up, while others maintain there certainly was...

and now...

One more pitch for the Fractal Universe, in the form of something called Y-Bias and Angularity: The Dynamics of Self-Organizing Criticality (From the Zero Point to Infinity), by David G. Yurth and Donald Ayres. I'm waiting on a response from Rudy Rucker, the most imaginatively gnarled fractalist of our times.

A taste:

We have written elsewhere that the practice of Science without a conscience is the most dangerous pursuit ever undertaken. We have only to look around us to discover how horrifyingly true this can be. As expressions of both physical and spirit stuff, we can no longer pretend that what we do can in any meaningful way be separated from the entire fabric of our combined existence. We exert a palpable, measurable influence on each other and the physical world we live in, whether we want to or not. We do not get to vote about that. What we do get to vote about, however, is what influences we choose to exert. The way we pursue Science is one of the most important of these decisions.

As a community of humans, we are at a crossroads now. We are obliged to either change our values and attitudes or learn to deal with a world that is increasingly polluted, inhospitable and dangerous. If the past is prologue to the future, human nature and our attitudes about ourselves and each other will not change unless and until we are faced with the option of either becoming extinct or being compelled to move in another direction. We are at this point in our evolution right now. We have all the information we need to understand how Nature really works. What remains to be seen is whether or not we can summon the fortitude to actually change the way we treat the planet and each other.

If this book serves no other purpose than to provoke a lively and well-informed dialogue about this subject, it will have served its purpose. Along the way, we hope the findings expressed here will serve to inform you by giving you a new framework for considering how Nature works.

Lots more in the full Intro, plus a free ebook. There are ways of investigating without dissecting; a "benign technology" is not necessarily an inherently oxymoronic proposition...

10/18/2007 05:42:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As per a question at -- more on why left-brain dominance is inherently disharmonious:

Anyway the "half-human" is the secret -- basically modern humans -- Freemasonic-controlled humans -- are only "half-humans" because our brains are limited to

phonetic-based speech

which is cut away from right-brain tonal language.

You can see this difference in U.S. subcultures -- so ethnic slang tends to either emphasize vowels (Swedish-Minnesota accent) or tones and even just TEXTURAL sounds -- instead of phonemes.

Anyway the point being that musilanguage accesses the RIGHT-brain which then accesses the left side of the cerebellum.

The right-brain is our emotional side which is controlled by the cerebellum -- the reptilian brain.

So if modern humans are stuck in the left-side (for Freemasonic right-hand technology) then

modern humans are actually controlled by their reptilian brain -- against their intentions.

The book "The Accidental Mind" by the Johns Hopkins neuroscience chair -- a recent book --

emphasizes that the cerebellum acts as an inhibitor for neurons, creating a negative millivolt potential.

This is why we can't tickle ourselves. The reptilian brain checks that the source of the stimulus is not another person so blocks the information and it does not get to our prefrontal cortex (which is for

INTENTIONAL language actions).

Essential modern humans are cut off from both the right side of the brain and the cerebellum -- which activates the coordination of emotion and motion


So our emotions get repressed and then projected as oppressive, disharmonic technology that is out of touch with the foundation of reality --

Female formless awareness.

This is why Freemasonry is based on "separation of heaven and earth" (mind and body) through mass ritual sacrifice (imperial technology).

The technology is CHARGED with the electrochemical emotions that are projected onto it


by the half-humans in the Matrix.

10/18/2007 06:02:00 PM  
Blogger Mark said...

From an IC link, excerpt:

"Tuning is a central but seldom discussed part of the early-music movement. There is little doubt that music of the early Baroque was played with a different system of tuning (or ''temperament'') than is common today. The difference it makes to the music can be hard to pin down, but musicians agree that even to listeners who can't describe it, the harmonies will sound unfamiliar if not outright strange.

Baroque zealots tend to disdain modern, or ''equal,'' temperament, suggesting that every note is ''equally out of tune.'' Their ears have become accustomed to unequal temperaments. The challenge is to convince fellow musicians to learn to use and appreciate those tuning systems. Audiences, too, sometimes show resistance.

In the early 17th century the ideal was to have the third, an important note in a major chord, sound acoustically ''pure.'' This was called ''mean tone'' temperament. To modern ears, ''pure'' often translates as ''out of tune,'' when a chord is compared with its counterpart in equal temperament. On the other hand, once the ear is used to the pure thirds of mean tone, that major chord gives a wonderful sense of repose. At the same time, other mean-tone chords sound wildly dissonant, giving the music great energy. Neither effect is possible in equal temperament, which has no pure intervals at all.


During the mid-15th century in Italy, composers and players experimented with chromatic notes. It occurred to someone to make two small keys between D and E, so that the keyboardist could play either D sharp or E flat. And so the split-key organ and harpsichord were born.

The organ came first and was specifically designed to accompany singers in church. Split keys offered the great advantage of making every major and minor chord sound pure, avoiding the unhappy compromise of equal temperament.

CHRISTOPHER STEMBRIDGE, a keyboardist and musicologist at the School of Church Music in Brescia, Italy, and an expert in Italian music of the late Renaissance and early Baroque, owns an instrument called a ''cimbalo cromatico,'' [here's a picture: "[There are]...only three surviving Italian harpsichord keyboards known originally to have had 19 notes per octave..."...This [picture] is not the Faber harpsichord but a special [recently designed] instrument made for Christopher Stembridge, with selectable chromatic or short octave in the bass, i.e. C-d³ or C/E-d³, and 19-note division in the octave, who plays it on the CD Consonanze Stravaganti, Neapolitan music for organ, harpsichord, and chromatic harpsichord (Ars Musici AM 1207-2). Giovanni de Macque, Prime Stravaganze, track 12 of AM 1207-2, 2.20 mins, 2.2MB,
listen [particularly between 1:00 and 1:20 there are lots of multi-note resonances played]
click here to order from] or chromatic harpsichord. It has 19 notes per octave, allowing for every distinct natural, sharp and flat note. Such instruments existed during the 17th century, in Italy and elsewhere.

The most extreme split-key instruments, called ''archicembalos,'' had 28, 31, even 36 keys per octave: obviously, more than two keys for each piano black key. ''It becomes very illogical to play,'' said Mr. Stembridge, who has tried to play a 1606 instrument with 31 notes per octave. ''I cannot imagine that anyone played fluently on this.''

Mr. Stembridge finds that his 19-note cimbalo cromatico poses no real problems for the player accustomed to ordinary mean-tone harpsichords. For each split key, the sharp or flat usually found in mean tone is at the front. The player reaches to the back of the key to find the less-used chromatic note.

Like split-key organs, the cimbalo cromatico was originally intended to accompany singers. But some composers and theorists of the late 16th and early 17th centuries wrote pieces specifically to show off its unusual capabilities. These composers, like Ascanio Mayone and Giovanni Maria Trabaci, are not exactly household names.

When Mr. Stembridge plays in the United States, he uses a cimbalo cromatico built for him by Willard Martin, a harpsichord maker in Bethlehem, Pa. Mr. Martin has a special interest in the chromatic harpsichord, which reaches beyond the obvious issues of temperament.

The 16th century produced a flowering of neo-Platonic mysticism among the European aristocracy. One manifestation was an attempt to equate musical notes with visual colors. [There was a 20th century instrument keyboard that played sound and shone different color patterns from specific notes on the wall behind it. Who made that?; There is additionally something argued about notes, planet spins, and colors in the book Civilization One: The World Is Not as You Thought It Was; review: "There must have been a Civilization One: a highly advanced precursor to what is currently the earliest recognized civilization. That’s the astounding revelation from a powerful duo of writers that includes the author of the bestselling The Hiram Key. Christopher Knight and Alan Butler’s startling conclusion comes from their quest to crack the mystery of the ancient "megalithic yard"—an incredibly precise unit of measurement that’s based on a deep understanding of the solar system. It seems beyond the comprehension of the supposedly unsophisticated people of Stone Age Britain, and yet not only is it visible in the thousands of megalithic structures built in Britain and France, but this measurement keeps recurring throughout nature and science. The implications of the authors’ breakthrough discovery go far beyond the idea of a super-science or prehistory: they indicate a grand plan that will have far-reading theological ramifications."]

Mr. Martin is interested in the 16th-century painter Giuseppe Arcimboldo. In a treatise from 1590, Mr. Martin explained, ''Arcimboldo presented a formula with which he had converted paintings into pieces of music.'' In that treatise he uses the word ''gravicembalo'' to describe the instrument in the court of Prague on which he made such a conversion. But Mr. Martin believes that it was some kind of cimbalo cromatico. According to court inventories, there was one in Prague at the time.

Unfortunately, Arcimboldo did not disclose which paintings he converted. As he was writing the treatise, he would have been painting the famous portrait of Rudolf II of Prague in fruits and vegetables.

''The neo-Platonic idea that tone and color can be unified was like an alchemic article of faith,'' Mr. Martin said. ''It's like trying to turn lead into gold. They believed it could be done but did not know how.''

Another, later, music-loving painter, Domenichino, made reference to the relationship of music to color in surviving letters. Mr. Martin is exploring the possibilities of this musical alchemy in collaboration with Thomas D. Kaufmann of the art department at Princeton University.

There is no question that the high-culture fashions of the late 16th and early 17th centuries were influenced by classical antiquity. Many experiments with music were aimed at recreating the sort of intense emotional response Aristotle described in his writings about poetry and rhetoric.

The cimbalo cromatico fits into this experimental movement. Its microtonal capabilities certainly intensify the rhetorical impact of the music. Mr. Stembridge recently demonstrated Mr. Martin's instrument to a gathering of music scholars, composers and performers in New York. Hearing so many pure intervals was disorienting. It brought out obvious physical and psychological reactions in listeners.

During a brief setting of the Kyrie by Ascanio Mayone, audience members were so alarmed at the bizarre sound that they began to giggle nervously. ''You're not supposed to be laughing,'' Mr. Stembridge said from the harpsichord. ''You're supposed to be praying.''

Mean-tone temperament is essential to unlock the emotional charge embedded in much early Baroque music. ''All the music written for the piano has missed out on the opportunity for this sort of expression,'' Mr. Manze said. ''Imagine what Liszt would have done with mean-tone.''

Even without questions of temperament, Baroque tuning would be a matter of controversy. Another essential issue keeps the pegs cranking up and down: pitch frequency.

Since the 1930's, pitch has been more or less universally standardized for Western art music. Today the A above middle C sounds at 440 vibrations per second. But during the Baroque, a baffling array of pitch standards were used for different instruments. From city to city, that A might sound at all sorts of pitches, from what the modern ear hears as an F above middle C, up to the modern high C.

Opinions about pitch vary widely among musicians determined to be historically accurate...."

10/19/2007 04:34:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey, PEOPLE!!!

Get your collective heads out of the clouds, will you?

In 79 days Atlanta runs out of water for approximately 3 million people. It's a Katrina-Like Disaster in the making, but on an even larger scale, and youse guys are talking about harmonic resonance.



Tell the Iraqi Mothers and Fathers whose children have been blown to bits your theory about harmonic resonsance and how it can help their plight. Tell the Iraqi children whose parents have been blown to bits your theory about harmonic resonsance and how it can help their plight. Tell the inhabitants of Smoky Mountain in the Philippines your theory of about harmonic resonance and how it can help them as they forage through the smoldering trash for their daily living.


Can we agree on that? You're chasing your tail in philosophizing on how it all works. Once upon a time, that was the endeavor of what we now refer to as the establishment of Science. The very Establishment you hold in such disdain. The irony is, I see many of you as just its infancy. I see no reason to believe that given the opportunity, you wouldn't become an established orthodoxy. How can Mark and IC possibly have an answer for everything? Yet, they do...and I'm certain they will have an answer for this latest retort....because they are the budding Protectorate of the New Found Faith. Do you ever notice they don't ask, or pose questions? They do, however, provide answers and explanations for seemingly everything. How can that be? As Belliosto posted a while back, it reminds me of Commander McBragg. You couldn't tell McBragg anything he didn't already know...or didn't already experience. He posed no questions, but instead, had an answer for everything. I say to thee...humble yourselves...and start asking questions again...and looking for clues in the most unobvious of places.

10/19/2007 07:33:00 AM  
Blogger Sounder said...

So shrub, what is it that you are doing that is helping the plight of Iraqi children?


“Can we agree on that?”

Well that depends shrub. If you mean to suggest that spiritual pretensions are simply religion with different spots, well no. The nature of our psychical expressions will change; this change is driven by ‘spiritual’ impulses. Tally Ho.

10/19/2007 08:05:00 AM  
Blogger muddy elephant said...

Indeed, shrub. Questions are often more revealing than their answers.

Are the most difficult questions the simple and obvious ones?

10/19/2007 11:04:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

People get nasty when you burst their bubble.

Bubble Bubble, Toil and Trouble.

There's much greater depth to that saying than meets the eye.

Sorry, I just had to, since Halloween is just around the corner.

10/19/2007 11:06:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Are the most difficult questions the simple and obvious ones?


For example, how do we get ourselves out of this mess, if we agree that it is a mess?

What I don't want to hear is that we should all start harmonically resonating in unison in order to elevate the collective seratonin levels of humanity. Metaphorically, that's a magnanimous and worthy outcome...but the challenge, on the ground, is to tactically implement a strategy, or strategies to enable that metaphorical result. And, in order to do that, we must be in agreement about what really constitutes Point A...if we are to migrate to Point B.

10/19/2007 11:16:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I just found this on a Nandor Fodor site:

According to Dr. Taraknath Das, quoted by G. K. Hack in Modern Psychic Mysteries at Millesimo Castle, the following curious history is handed down in India: "It is well known that the great Indian musician ' Tan Sen ' in the court of Emperor Akbar the Great, used to sing a special music, known as ' Dupak Rag' which produced lightning effect. In performing for the Emperor the musician had to sit by a lake. The singer had to jump into this artificial lake to save himself from being burned and suffering from electric shock. The lightning effect was caused by the vibrations of the music."

10/19/2007 11:25:00 AM  
Blogger muddy elephant said...


I tend to look at things in this perhaps annoying, "broad generality" sort of way, and I know that good solid examples and actions are truly what is needed to douse the raging flames of suffering and waste on this planet--speaking of water shortages...

I really think the root of our problems is aw shit, yes... a meme has infested our will to action.

It is the "eye on the prize" meme. This is going to be tough to get across, but I believe we simply need to focus more on whole-hearted doing--and let go of "the eye on the prize". Of course we have to be aware of the outcomes of our actions. But this emphasis on results has brought us all into a much more selfish mode of being.

I think we can all see this for ourselves in our daily lives. If we all do what "needs to be done*" without over-emphasising the outcome,then, over time, and with a rigorous self-questioning, the "eye on the prize" meme of our patriarchal world will lose its distorting strength on our collective vision.

*eating, loving, working, sleeping.

--of course we all have different ideas of what "needs to be done"

--my "faith" lies in the proposed concept that we all intuitively know what we need to do--today, here and now... this can be hard to see from years of ignoring it--but there is an inner voice and it can be brought into definition with effort and questioning of the self, along with balance with others: the balance of introversion/extroversion must be cultivated.

The political confusion we see/experience is largely a result of focus on outcomes, not on the doing of "what needs to be done"

The question becomes: "What do I need to do for myself/others today, right here and now? What can I realistically do?

There is no definite answer. Do we fear this "no definite answer?" Is this perhaps a root cause of fear?

blah blah blah. Have a great weekend y'all.

10/19/2007 01:30:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

I can totally emphathize with you there, Shrub--nobody likes a smart ass, even less a know-it-all. That said, I think you're talking about two different things here. What get from your comment is that rome is burning as we argue over how to tune our fiddles...

That was actually how I started my remarks on this thread--that all the stereotypical conspiracy theorizing was a distraction from the real existential question of "What (if anything) to do?"

I've always put my hopes in my redesigning-man's-habitat project, because that's where you're going to change how everyone interacts with Nature, the place where decentralized abundance happens. Sure, we have to think about how human society should be organized--what, if any, the role of the nation-state will be in a world that's an organic, even self-organizing system, instead of the hodge-podge of warring factions used by the ruling class to maintain their priviledge.

There are likewise many other questions we haven't even begun to anticipate, but the reason my focus has always been on habitat is because there is something absolutely fundamentally telling about the phrase, "It hits you where you live." If we can't live without draining resources, eventually the well will run dry, the skies will darken and the last tree will be felled. If, on the other hand, we can follow Nature's example and build like Eugene Tsui, maintain our watersheds like Viktor Schauberger, and set up our communities around some principle like that outlined by Jeff Vail in his rhizome model, then we'll never exhaust the planet through (intentionally) stupid design.

This is the radically simple first step--believing that entropy does not define reality, that limits are there to inspire & remind us, not to make us submit to the elite's scarcity regime.

Now, while it might seem like harmonic resonance theory has nothing to do with what I've just described (and which you've better versions of many times--sorry!), as well as all that "How does the universe work?" stuff, the truth is that all of it does have some degree of relevance to the central question. How much relevance each part might have is up to you to decide.

I'd also like to say that I'm far more humble than you make me out to be--I am pretty sure about the whole habitat & environment thing, but please don't mistake my willingness to look at any number of puzzles as a belief on my part that I have solutions for them.


Yeah, that looked like starroute, alright. I feel pretty bad about her absence, to tell you the truth. She left right after I said she was full of shit for telling us we had nothing to fear after the Democrats took back Congress in the '06 election. Being right about it hardly helps when we all miss her contributions. Being right hardly helps anything at all, come to think of it.


Bingo! And why, do you reckon, is the truth of that shift so obscured? Can it really be that important? Makes you wonder...

muddy elephant,

Yes. The inner voice can always be trusted so long as it doesn't seek to disadvantage anyone else...that must be what it's there for. Another interesting topic of discussion.

10/19/2007 05:56:00 PM  
Blogger Sounder said...

Shrub said;

“In 79 days Atlanta runs out of water for approximately 3 million people. It's a Katrina-Like Disaster in the making, but on an even larger scale, and youse guys are talking about harmonic resonance.”

Is this a bit ironic given the topic of Jeff’s current post? Naming dates and using bullshit emotional trigger phrases. So are you mocking Jeff and his readers, or is this your version of a ‘trance test’, checking to see how “nice’ the good folk at RI still are.

Also, and not to be preachy shrub, but if you are looking for a Point A to start from you may do better by picking an idea more along the RI theme. Like for instance; indiscriminate conspiracy theorizing reinforces victim mentality, or something like that. Your Point A may do just fine over at the atheist blog but here, you have to convince others of the merits of your arguments. I see nothing from you on this. You present nothing because it seems that by your logic we are fucked and there is nothing to be done. Or am I misrepresenting you? Please explain how if you think that I am.

10/19/2007 08:49:00 PM  
Blogger muddy elephant said...

IC and Mark: Thank you so much for all of your continued habitat/environment information. It is something I hope to be able to put to good use someday.(Once I get done with school I'll be in the HVAC design field)

10/19/2007 09:32:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Interesting how you portray it as "them" and me. When addressing me and points I make, you do this without fail. Guess who else does this, Sounder? You're right! Christian Fundamentalists!! What a freakin coincidence. And, you referred to your fabricated cyberspace pals as, in an obviously insecure gesture of solidarity, "the good folk at RI."

See, now my feelings are really hurt because Sounder is claiming that I don't belong. He's isolating me from the pack and labeling the pack as "good" with the implication that Shrub is somehow not. Shrub's not worthy. He's not a believer. He's not one of us. There's no room in our world for the likes of him. Until he reforms himself and prostrates himself before the alter of incoherence, he can never be one of us. Blessed are the Bubble Yums...for they shall inherit the Earth.

So, tell me Sounder, you refute the fact that Lake Lanier, which is the sole source of water for 3 Million people in Atlanta, has only 79 days of water left at current usage and weather conditions? You don't see that as a serious issue? Did you bother to even look into the matter? It's been a serious issue for 25 years now, just as the levies in New Orleans were a serious issue for decades...and we all know what happened in New Orleans. If I wanted to get Conspiratorial, I would have said that "they" are going to let this happen so "they" can privatize water rights throughout the United States. You know, in the spirit of Naomi Klein's Shock Doctrine. But, see, I didn't say that, instead I portrayed it in conventional rhetoric. So, you're way off base once again, as usual. What I love about you is how you betray all of your blather when you jump my bones. Your antipathy is palpable....and that is the highest compliment you can give me, so thank you....thank you very much. Keep it shows just how well your thoroughly grounded, yet incoherent, philosophy works in practice.

Oh, and by the way, apparently you don't view the Forum, do you? Since Jeff's post, there have been numerous postings about Conspiracy Theories....real Conspiracy Theories, not facts like Lake Lanier only has 79 days of water left, and Jeff is one of the folks contributing to those posts, so I think your point is misdirected and it is Jeff and certain other members of the Forum whom you are really addressing. That's OK, your projection is yet another form of flattery...but I have to tell you, Sounder, with me, Flattery will get you no where....just ask Eve.

10/19/2007 09:40:00 PM  
Blogger Mark said...

Shrub, I've come to appreciate (or at least bear witness to the fact) that you are the only one who really takes themselves entirely seriously here.

I think I would agree with Sounder: you put up:

"Is this a bit ironic given the topic of Jeff’s current post? Naming dates and using bullshit emotional trigger phrases. So are you mocking Jeff and his readers, or is this your version of a ‘trance test’, checking to see how “nice’ the good folk at RI still are.

Also, and not to be preachy shrub, but if you are looking for a Point A to start from you may do better by picking an idea more along the RI theme. Like for instance; indiscriminate conspiracy theorizing reinforces victim mentality, or something like that. Your Point A may do just fine over at the atheist blog but here, you have to convince others of the merits of your arguments. I see nothing from you on this. You present nothing ..."

You're from the U.S. South, why don't you propose a solution for your area? No? Why not? Because all you get off on is screaming at people anonymously. It's just 'not your style' to do anything except whine.

Shrub said:

"In 79 days Atlanta runs out of water for approximately 3 million people. It's a Katrina-Like Disaster in the making, but on an even larger scale,..."

Get some perspective. U.S. cities don't have water disasters on the scale that China experiences nearly daily:

"Environmental protests are becoming more frequent & strident in China, despite state media blackouts. The country has, according to World Bank research, 16 of the 20 worst polluted cities IN THE WORLD....Even the Chinese gov't admits to major Chinese urban/rural industrial water pollution accidents every 2-3 days. In a damning cover up the Chinese government has used its involvement in a World Bank report on the environment to conceal that around 750,000 people in China die prematurely each year due to pollution....A further 300,000 people thought to be killed by exposure to poor air indoors...another 60,000 deaths to poor water quality, largely in countryside leading to severe diarrhoea & stomach, liver & bladder cancers [thus, in all, with solvable air & water pollution, well over a million Chinese killed by their one-party state's international corporatist developmental model annually...]"

Meanwhile, all of Australia is running dry. Read about Queensland's 'water grid' they hope to complete before they all die off. It's a stupid greenhouse gas solution that has many up in arms there that reeks of a billion dollar cronyism.

Besides, mostly the water in Australia is stolen by useless agriculture that only contributes a small 3% or less of Australian GNP though consumes around 80% of Australian water (if I remember correctly) of Australian water. [cite: Diamond's book Collapse]

In the U.S., Atlanta steals enough water from the surrounding area as it is.

Atlanta is the U.S. South's version of Reisner's Cadillac Desert--his description of Los Angeles's water thefts from multiple states.

The U.S. and Canada are just huge water gluttons, really, making Orwell's "Oceania" the most wasteful water culture on the planet.

Australia is learning to change though. (Read about that in Diamond's book Collapse, though most societies that did collapse knew what was going on though their elites didn't want to change or they were insulated from change).

And yes, there are technical solutions much better than massive desalination plants:

"With water difficulties surely to keep mounting, remember that 7/10 of the planet is water. This seems ideal to solve all water difficulties and do many other issues simultaneously.

The Mad Genius from the Bottom of the Sea

Unlimited energy. Fast-growing fruit. Free air-conditioning. John Piña Craven says we can have it all by tapping the icy waters of the deep. [i.e., using the heat differential in the ocean water to power things, like its own desalination!]

By Carl Hoffman

The Mad Genius from the Bottom of the Sea
Creating a Deep-Sea Oasis on Dry Land

Halfway through an important lunch meeting in Kona, Hawaii, with the lieutenant governor of the Northern Mariana Islands, John Piña Craven is suddenly restless. The topic under discussion is Craven's plan to use cold water pumped up from the deep ocean to provide low-cost and environmentally sustainable power, water, and food to a new residential and commercial development in the Marianas, a chain of islands some 3,000 miles to the west. But none of his colleagues expect Craven to schmooze anyway, so he ditches the group and heads to the restaurant's parking lot.

Craven, who will soon turn 80, moves at a brisk shuffle, his black sneakers taking two steps for every one of mine. Back and forth we pace, like inmates in a jail yard. Craven's mind is already way beyond the Marianas project. "I've decided to run a marathon to demonstrate my newest innovation," he says. "You see, I apply cold temperatures to different parts of my body in three bastings. The third is the most complicated - I ice the terminuses of my lymphatic system. My body heals itself. Look at these hands," he says, opening and closing his fists. "I have no joint pain of any kind!"

Craven may sound like a brilliant psychotic, but he's got plenty of credentials: a PhD in ocean engineering, a law degree, and a stint as chief scientist for the US Navy's Special Projects Office. There he was instrumental in developing the Polaris missile program, the submarine-based backbone of America's nuclear deterrence and one of the most complex defense systems ever. In fact, most deep-ocean activities - saturation diving, exploring with submersibles, searching for tiny objects on the ocean floor - owe their origins to top secret, cold war-era Navy projects in which Craven had a hand.

A polymath who is as comfortable talking about the Law of the Sea as he is the plumbing nightmares inherent when 200 men a day urinate in a submarine, Craven is hard to keep up with. His mind darts from why the Navy should make subs out of glass to the sad end of his long telephone friendship with the late Marlon Brando to the remarkable prodigiousness of his small experimental Hawaiian vineyard. "One week the plants have no leaves," he says, "the next they just go zing, zing, zing and are full of fruit!"

The grapes are a key part of his plan, through his Common Heritage Corporation, to build communities around the world sustained by deep-ocean water, starting on the Mariana island of Saipan. And he's not doing it just out of the goodness of his heart. "I fully intend for CHC to be a multibillion-dollar corporation," Craven says.

His grand plan could come across as a bar-stool fantasy, but it's already won $75 million from Alpha Pacific, a Memphis, Tennessee, venture capital firm, and $1.5 million in federal funds. Craven hopes that within a year, bulldozers will begin clearing land on Saipan and engineers will start sinking a pipe to pump icy water from the ocean depths to produce electricity and freshwater. And back in Kona, Craven expects to use cold-water agriculture to transform five acres of otherwise barren lava fields into the world's most productive vineyard. "The economics are absurd," he boasts. "Once we prove the technology on Saipan, imagine what it could do for places like Haiti!"

Though technical solutions by themselves don't work when the issues of environmental degradation are more political and corruption based. Though there are ideas for that as well in the book. These are suggstions, Shrub, not diktats.

Shrub said:

"I see no reason to believe that given the opportunity, you wouldn't become an established orthodoxy. How can Mark and IC possibly have an answer for everything?

Shrub, you are the one claiming the authority of orthodoxy: your claims in your mind are higher than anyone else's tell us they are. I don't think IC or myself are claiming to have answers to everything, only steering the debate toward offering solutions because they are out there. Many things have indeed already been solved. Claiming the contrary and attaching yourself to the belief that we should respect the "victim mentality" (as Sounder pointed out) is entirely based on ignorance instead of something tangible like you think.

If I didn't know better from your post experiences here (I agree with your self-categorization of 'mad though not at people as individuals') I would think you were the dangerous authoritarian, Shrub, not me or IC.

I've been told there are two major kinds of people in the world: those that curse the darkness and those that light a candle. However, you are a strange breed that curses those who light the candle because you prefer to reign in darkness? Shrub, your self-fulfilling prophesy is more dangerous than anything IC or myself could dream up...

10/19/2007 10:36:00 PM  
Blogger Mark said...

Thanks, muddy elephant. HVAC, eh? Feel free to look at some slowly acreeting ideas here, or brainstorm and post yourself there:

Commodity Ecology - coolants

Commodity Ecology - Ambient Heat

I would ideally like to create and seed in all watersheds of the world locally specific forms of technological soundness and social interaction across all these categories. Some will fail. Though some areas will succeed--carrying the ideas onward.

A good book to read is Gaviotas: A Village to Reinvent the World by Alan Weisman.

The original Gaviotas is in Colombia. It had some difficulties expanding because they wanted to keep everything consolidated and saw themselves as seeding technologies instead of seeding relationships with that technology. I offer some suggestions for solving that via watershed-based commodity ecologies and some of the wider 'bioregional commononwealth' issues of the bioregional state.

"[The] bioregional commonwealth would be my alternative model: having nested local groups getting it straight and right on their own local level economically and materially, first, within an ever expanding form of collaborative state for human rights at the larger levels."

Shrub, you want to help Atlanta? I don't think so, though if you do, you could hardly to worse than to try some of these ideas. Think outside the panic box:

Some suggestions for institutionalizing this to optimize for each watershed are as follows:

1. The 54 different producers in each watershed of each material choice should get together, with consumers in an open meeting, the district of which shall be the local watershed and the polity being the total people who live within it.

2. If there are less than the 54, the ‘holes’ should be identified as well for what could be manufactured in the watershed within sustainable goals to fill these local sourcing issues. It is quite astounding how the Gaviotas team, working from virtual desert and mud conditions, learned how to discover and fulfill a different material choice rubric for a completely different local geography. Sustainability is a lot like discovering one’s local geography, and adapting to it in terms of material choices.

3. At the meeting, for the producers interest, they can talk among themselves about what wastes they are generating, and gain ideas for how to import wastes of one material use into the inputs of another material use in the same watershed. They can talk about their mutual wastes--to buy and sell or mix--and get ideas for what to do with them for profit or reuse flows. Consider it a “waste based stock market” for each of the 54 material uses in a watershed. In addition to this:

4. At the meeting, for the consumer/user’s interest, they can talk directly to the producers on what they would like to purchase, and what is considered destructive of sustainability in their particular watershed, what wastes are completely unacceptable and why and how this can be rectified by materials change, leaving it up to the producers how to organize the technological change; otherwise, the consumers should find some producer to arrange it instead. Under “bio-nationalization” of the materials choice, each watershed shall have the democratic jurisdiction over its own local economic development, as mentioned elsewhere in this series:

Bioregional democracy (or the Bioregional State) is a set of electoral reforms (and commodity reforms) designed to force the political process in a democracy to better represent concerns about the economy, the body, and environmental concerns (e.g., water quality), toward developmental paths that are locally prioritized and tailored to different areas for their own specific interests of sustainability and durability. This denotes democratic control of a natural commons and local jurisdictional dominance in any economic developmental path decisions--while not removing more generalized civil rights protections of a larger national state.

5. The watershed user-producer institution shall determine how often it meets. It is suggested that this occur every six months or so, or at least annually.

6. Consumers can force a watershed group user-producer meeting with producer representatives in attendance, under authority of the bionationalization powers of local economic development over material choice, in the bioregional state.

7. It is suggested that each of the 54 producers form executive committees for investigation on each material if a desire for change is expressed in the consumer base.

8. Each group of 54 user-producer institutions solutions will be specific to the watershed's desires. However, across all watersheds, people in general can get ideas for how the abstract relationships between the 54 could work in their watershed, based on how it was done elsewhere.

9. A website could be established with 54 portals, to post threads on each of the 54 material choice topics, with cross links. Each of the 54 categories of material use could comprise one topic or thread. In such an environment, for each watershed, local residents of the watershed could have access in real time to voting or commenting on different proposals (which is very Ray Pingree-esque), or post their own consumer-producer ideas (whether “direct” or “indirect” proposals, respectively) for how to integrate different material choices or how to back-engineer what to do with a particular material item that is a waste in their area looking for a novel use, to get rid of it, toward moving toward something else that is more circuitous and recyclable in its material use in the watershed.

10. A “54 fair” should be held each year, to celebrate the ideas and show off and sell the products of the past year, as well as a party to buy and sell locally in the watershed or the larger bioregion in general.

For example in one of these meetings, I might say “look, I want a water fuel based hydrogen-on-demand engine, and I want to buy one now. [1] [2] [3] I want to completely get out of oil use for fuel. Someone should help me find out how to build one. Or, build them and we will buy them. Or sell a ready assembly kit.” Others might say “Look, I want a completely organic school lunch program, find a way to do that for my children at their local school and we will help you by purchasing it and seeing it work.” Others might have a general question or brainstorming idea to propose, for instance, when they have the material they want to use, though they want help from the 54 on what they could make from it. “Look, I want to find some way to utilize all these heaps of old tires at the city junkyard. What ideas do you have?” Thus, one can see, that “direct requests” for user-producer relationships as well as “inverse requests” (when you have the material and are unaware of what to use it for) for user-producer relationships can be accomplished. Other requests could be toward showing a desire for different health services/medical commodity choices, for instance.

These can be a venue for generating many novel cross-linked ideas for sustainability solutions, similar to the synergy that kept cropping up in the story of Gaviotas. When three or four materials choices are already integrated into each other in feedback loops, they found it far easier to consider how to scale these material relationships into several score of materials simultaneously, building from commonly acceptable sustainable relationships, and finding ways to insert other ones into the mix slowly like a jigsaw puzzle once you have several that are already fitted together. They found that accidentally, they were "building" a forest, and reforesting what was once a barren wasteland with a forest canopy.

In conclusion, this institutionalization of watershed specific user-producer relationships gets an ongoing, geographically specific input from different actors together.

It weaves a network of local integrity economically, ecologically, and healthfully in each watershed and larger bioregion instead of polluting it, destroying it, and harming its economic viability and the health of its population in the process.

It is simply insanity to intentionally or even passively continue to support frameworks of formal institutions, formal policy, technology, and materials choice that are innately self-destructive, economically destructive, ecologically destructive, and health impairing.


10/19/2007 11:02:00 PM  
Blogger the author said...

Jeff, for a guy counseling caution when it comes to conspiracy theories, you're disappointingly credulous when the theory feeds your own prejudice.

Fritz Springmeier, noted anti-government extremist with possible ties to the Army of God ...

Prejudicial words are the hallmark of yellow journalism. Right up front, with no supporting facts, we are told Springmeier robbed a bank because of alleged political and religious beliefs. How often do you see bank robbers' alleged political and religious beliefs tacked onto the lead of a news story? "Frank E. Jones, 34, a Methodist and Democrat, was arrested and charged in connection with a bank robbery on the city's South Side..." You ever read that? No. Only in "special cases" where they're out to try, convict and sentence someone in one fell swoop.

The flow chart revealed God's Remnant Church/Christian Patriot Association as the hub of a wheel. The spokes reflected, in part, the following groups and individuals: Army of God, Springmeier, militias, KKK, Charles Stewart/Common Law Court, Neo-Nazis, Skin-Heads, NSV, Bo Gritz, hocked guns and the Indianapolis Church.

First, Wheatley is himself a convicted criminal! If a convicted criminal said Springmeier was right, you'd say, "Aha! He's a crook, so that proves Springmeier's not only wrong, but he's a crook too!" But because the criminal delivers just the message you want to hear, it's gospel truth.

Pastor Weakley stated Springmeier may be ..."

"May" be? This speaks for itself.

A 1986 Government publication prepared for federal criminal investigative and intelligence agencies by the Treasury Department states "Organizations with a propensity towards violence" include Identity Churches and Groups.

And today the federal government says peace protestors are terrorists. You believe that too?

I asked you in the comments section to a recent post of yours, railing on the John Birch Society: Do you actually even know any Birchers? Apparently not, and the same seems to go for folks labeled "right-wing extremists." I wonder then, whence all this religious certitude?

-- the author aka africkinamerican

10/19/2007 11:38:00 PM  
Blogger Mark said...

Given the state of the U.S., Springmeier is probabaly more accurately described as a political prisoner than a 'bank robber', because his real clame to (infamy in some eyes) fame was researching Illuminati bloodlines. He was 'arrested' right before producing the companion volume....:

Title: INTERVIEW w/Fritz Springmeier on trauma-based dissociative identity disorder[ ILLUMINATI ]
Author: web
Date: 2004.04.06 08:16
Description: Good morning, welcome to the International Connection. This is show #35 in the radio series on Mind Control and over the next few shows we are going to be talking to Fritz Springmeier and Cisco Wheeler, co-authors of the "Illuminati Formula Used to Create an Undetectable Total Mind Control Slave" and "Deeper Insights", books about trauma based conditioning mind control. Fritz is a researcher about the Illuminati and minister to mind control victims. Cisco Wheeler says she is from a generational Illuminati family and that trauma-based mind control was perpetrated against her from birth. We will hear the interview with Cisco in a couple of weeks, and today we are going to hear an interview with Fritz Springmeier. Fritz talks about the Illuminati families and how they have used mind control to consolidate their power throughout history. You are listening to CKLN 88.1 FM. "...a large percentage of these people are programmed multiple personalities and just that in itself creates a whole different thinking pattern from those of us who are not multiple." [and later, information on the US (Illuminated) federal government's attempt to frame him and stop the publication of his second companion book...]

Author: Springmeier's research
Date: 2004.04.21 04:36
Description: welcome to your world, already in somewhere.... and you wonder why there is endemic organized crime protected in the world, when you have these interbred elites who keep themselves above the law? Look to your inbred leadership for why the world is screwed up. IF YOU WANT AN ACTUAL DEMOCRACY, SPREAD AROUND WIDELY AND EXPOSE THEM. DEMOCRACY IS A WORK IN PROGRESS, YET TO BE BORN.

Thrown in for good measure:

Title: INTERVIEW w/Cisco WHEELER, defected from Illuminati; & Brice TAYLOR, Kissinger's sex slave
Author: Cisco Wheeler & Brice Taylor
Date: 2004.04.06 09:19
Description: " we begin an interview with Cisco Wheeler, co-author of "The Illuminati Formula Used to Create an Undetectable Mind Controlled Slave" and other books about trauma-based conditioning. Cisco is a mind control victim of one of the Illuminati families. She is a descendant of Ulysses S. Grant and has managed to gain a certain amount of freedom from her family's control. She is currently working with Fritz Springmeier to help other victims of mind control heal. Cisco rarely does interviews, so we are very fortunate to be able to bring you this interview with Cisco Wheeler." I was first involved as an infant. My father came from a transgenerational satanic family. My life was planned according to a particular structure, from the beginning, as my father was a programmer for the Illuminati and the U.S. government. --------------- "Part 42...Today we are bringing you part one of an interview I conducted with Brice Taylor, a former Whitehouse-level mind control victim. She has been used as a sex slave for a number of U.S. presidents, foreign officials, and other power-brokers while under the influence of mind control. She has been subjected to horrific torture and abuse, beginning in her childhood, at the hands of her family, and has been programmed at various military bases in the U.S., and at NASA...and since breaking free and recovering, has been in touch with hundreds of mind control survivors across the U.S."..."Brice Taylor" is a pseudonym that I chose to protect myself and my children when I first started writing my book and putting it out."

Title: Once In The Bowels Of The Vatican And Illuminati, Svali speaks of Illuminati double life
Author: repost
Date: 2006.01.19 04:08
Description: A RARE INTERVIEW, and it went out over the radio. "Svali" (pen name) was a programmer in San Diego for the Illuminati. She was from a rich family completely in the Illuminati, raised in it from birth. She got out 10 years ago, at age 38, and they left her penniless and had the State take her childen back--for the Illumianti. However, now, she is now 48 years old, a nurse with her own life, regained custody of her children who are 'out' as well, and helps ritual abuse victims. Svali represents in many ways a success story in escaping occult sexual ritual abuse cults--in her mental solidity and her personality security. She has written a book that doctors attempting to treat ex-Illuminati or ritual abuse people have declared "invaluable" for its insights on how to help someone--since she was a regional programmer herself. Below is an interesting feel for her double life--and the double life her children are born into so they know nothing else--in the timeline she wrote up and gave the interviewer. NOTE THEY MEET ON A SECURE MILITARY BASE AFTER MIDNIGHT, just waved in like all the others in the darkness of early morning. They put on uniforms that represent different hierarchies, speak German and English as lingua franca, chit chat, drink coffee, and then get to work on programming people or "tuning up" leaders already in power. Some are rewarded in comfort sessions afterwards like her example of a military leader being given a "tune up" and then a comfort session with a young child to play with because he's a pedophile. They build people's alters/split personalities from birth to suit the Order's cult atmosphere and desires for airtight secrecy (all are multiples), and keep heavy documentation on just what they do to each other to make them all the more controllable.

10/20/2007 01:01:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mark and Sounder have to stop betraying themselves in their attempts to flog me. Mark says he agrees with Sounder's Assessment then in the same breath points me to a book by Reisner about The Cadillac Desert. Here's an exerpt from a review of that book:

Well, better late than never, and I am pleased to report that it deserves its enduring reputation.

...But let me assume that I am writing this "review" for an audience that is neither familiar with Reisner's book nor aware of the role water development has played in every aspect of the history of the American West, particularly of California.

Briefly, the history of water development contains the whole story of the West, from start to present. Early modern irrigation worked miracles and opened to the plow land previously unavailable for agriculture -- land that now feeds the nation and much of the world. If it were not for these early, massive hydro-projects, not one of the great cities of the West would be even conceivable, millions upon millions of people would and could never have considered settling the western half of the continent. Of course, there was a massive cost accompanying all of these benefits, measurable in human as well as environmental terms, but in those days the cost-benefit analysis was easy.

Building upon early irrigation successes, two government agencies -- the Bureau of Reclamation and the Army Corps of Engineers, may they both live forever in infamy -- garnered unto themselves massive power and independence, which they used to keep on building dam after dam after dam. The problem was not so much (at the time the dams were built) that the environmental costs were higher with every dam, until there now remains no wild river beyond the hundredth meridian of any significance whatsoever, precious little habitat for migratory birds, mass extinctions, etc., etc., tragically etc.; the real problem (at the time the dams were built) was that the new dams brought no benefits whatsoever to stack up against their costs. Each new dam represented gratuitous environmental catastrophe, effected simply because water projects became the currency of pork barrel Congressional politics.

And that's not the worst of it. Except for the Egyptian (the Nile River being a very special case), every civilization founded upon irrigation has always ended -- abruptly -- almost certainly due to the sudden and permanent despoliation of irrigated agricultural soil through concentration of salts, which is the inevitable result of irrigation. No previous irrigation civilization has ever worked on such a grand scale, or with soil already so alkaline, as ours. Death by salinity is happening with alarming rapidity in the American West even now. The end of agriculture as we know it in the West is coming, and coming soon; all the experts know it; nothing is being done.

Reisner doesn't suggest much in the way of solutions. But as history -- explaining patterns of human settlement, the effects of that settlement on the region's geography, the patterns of flow and accumulation of wealth in the West, and what may be the greatest crisis our whole nation is facing and ignoring today -- Cadillac Desert can't be beat.

I'm a bit confused. Sounder's telling me I'm an Alarmist, then Mark jumps on and says he agrees with Sounder's Assessment of me, then Mark, in his usual style, provides a gazillion links as his answer to my "Alarmist" concern with one of those links containing the Alarmist Rhetoric in italics above.

For the record, I second Muddy's assertion that IC and Mark have provided invaluable information, but that still doesn't precude the validity of my remarks.

Mark, you are an Authoritarian, whether you like it, or not. Your information is intriguing and often times invaluable but a true relationship requires reciprocation, and I don't see that with you or IC. It's mostly one sided from you all to us, and I don't consider that healthy. Also, it raises my suspicions, because as you said in your own words, you're "steering" people. How telling is that little admission?

Surrender said she keeps coming to blog, among other reasons, because of me. Well, I keep coming to this blog because of Richard's juxtaposition to the Bubble Yum mentality.

And, Sounder, what the hell does the Atheist Forum have to do with any of this? Shall we dig up your past, as well, Sounder? What skeletons would we find in your non-dualistic closet? Chances are, some who post to this Forum are murderers and child know, the ones you so smugly labeled "good" people in your attempt to belittle me.

It should be obvious why I was banned from that Forum, Sounder. They're CIA...just like DailyKos!! HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

10/20/2007 07:20:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey, there we go, from Harmonic Resonance to the Illuminatti in one thread. Imagine that. But hey, I'm the Conspiracy Theorist around here....let's not forget that. Afterall, the purpose of Jeff's post, according to Sounder, was to eschew Conspiracy Theory once and for all....even anything that sounders like Conspiracy Theory.

Atlantans might run out of water? Fuck you, you Conspiracy Theorist...everyone knows water is abiotic and produced deep in the bowels of earth (Shrub awaits link from Mark to support that contention).HAHAHAHA!!!!!!

10/20/2007 07:25:00 AM  
Blogger Fructedor said...


We have to work - that's what we're built for. Best thing is to choose some area of necessary work within your capacities and preferably with which you feel good, and get stuck in. But you gotta feed good, lotta work to do. Feed the body, feed the head, feed the spirit - a healthy spirit helps clear the fog from many of the choices we have to make. The chemical details of how that happens don't concern me much, but it's research that's important to some.

I didn't know about Atlanta - what can usefully be done? It would seem that we can't rely on our governing bodies to do it, anyway. People begging for help on nationwide TV didn't help New Orleans. Something else?

I can understand the desperation and anger felt by anyone wading through the gooey marsh of evil that lies just beneath the surface of just about any piece of modern news - I've felt it myself. This midset will not be changed from inside the perimeter, though - we have to go elsewhere to get the strength and foresight needed do do what's necessary.

10/20/2007 09:50:00 AM  
Blogger Sounder said...

Hey Shrub, you do the HAHAHAHAHAHAH, and I will do the hehehehehe and we can sound like a pack of jackals to any outside observers. But seriously Shrub, I gasped at the synchronistic resonance of my reviewing past posts with your threats to bring up my past. Wow dude, you and me must be bro’s.

“And, Sounder, what the hell does the Atheist Forum have to do with any of this?”

Uh, -maybe because you attempted to establish as Point A the proposition; NO MORE RELIGION, CONVENTIONAL OR OTHERWISE!!

It had nothing to do with your past poor relations with others. I was simply equating that statement with atheism.

“Shall we dig up your past, as well, Sounder?” Feel free. This from your past, I will save the better for later.

“This blog leans more heavily towards how fucking insidious things are rather than how we can make it better..”

Well, -no, the people on this blog are more oriented towards solutions. This seems to cause a rise in blood pressure within your body. At any rate you might want scroll past the following if you have not yet taken your medication today Shrub. This is not the ‘past’ of mine that you care to see.

Elephant wondered how we could have;

“Positive change in a society seemingly indifferent to history and ideas?”

The seeming indifference can change with better models.

I have long thought that ‘learning’ is boring, for most, because current intellectual structures do not provide for a dynamic relationship between the individual and society, (or between categories and reality). Intellect comes to be measured by how well one can parrot back consensual category treatments of the dominant worldview.

Little of the sub-conscious recognition’s are drawn into current conscious models; so there is little internal motivation to learn, (as the sub-conscious element feels insulted). External motivations then take over, corrupting ones felt experience. The result then is the sublimation of sub-conscious elements into un-consciousness, to surface later as shadow expressions.

To be alive is to be a conformist. While few attempt to conform with a dynamical relationship to reality, most conform to social expectations, with all its limitations. Saying, this thing appears like this to me; - helps as i walk on down the road, allowing the perspective to change as i walk on by. Better than saying to your social superior, ‘Yes,Yes,... If we just do such and so, because this is that, it’s for the ‘good’ of everyone, and we will make some good cash out of it also. Then you are invested, and your life work becomes protecting your investment.

For someone like me it would be social suicide to get offended by people that think different than me.

When another person has good ideas or style I can enjoy much of what they say, (in my own way), and still not agree with them on some basic points. So what, i am not invested in ‘beliefs’ anyway. Intelligent people that think different than you are more helpful than are dull people that agree with you.

What does it take to ‘Be as a child, so as to enter the kingdom of heaven’? A distinction I see between the child and the adult is that the child has not yet developed an intellectual structure so as to explain the world. If we let the ‘kingdom of heaven’ represent ‘potential recognized’, (while still in this world), then one can say any intellectual structure provides consistency in your ‘picture’ of reality, but -being a mediator between the individual and reality it also ensures a less than direct and authentic experience.

Translation; We do better to learn by examining our experience rather than building intellectual castles to duke it out with all the other intellectual warlords.

The ego driven mind likes to consider that the categories within ones conscious model are well ordered. If you come to see that expressions of social chaos are proof that our categories are not well ordered, then the right brain can re-open to help you adjust your relations to external events.

Being socially accepted involves treating categories in a way similar to the treatment given by your social superiors. Being socially useful involves effort spent trying to refine categories, so as to expose greater substance, or creating new correspondences and categories that more correctly describe our relationships to reality. The second ‘useful’ option is seldom taken because of social danger and the inhibiting effects of ego consciousness.

My impression is that currently repressed elements of our sub-conscious recognition’s; things with no place within our conscious models, will soon find means for their expression. Let us pray that we may make armageddon metaphorical by doing the internal work necessary, so that we may avoid the external chaos produced by sick egoic

I find it interesting how it is that even the 'smartest' people are caught up in the fraud.

Intelligence is not all it's cracked up to be I guess.

What is consciousness? Where gods and devils fear to tread.

Fuck it, I’ll take a stab.

There are three elements to it.

The conscious element contains the material that can be integrated into a communally accepted model. So it is the ‘known’, the pieces that fit into our relative truth modeling of reality.

The sub-conscious element contains material that either cannot or need not be integrated into the conscious model. Every perception and experience gets registered. For the most part it stays in the ‘archives’ so to speak, perhaps to be brought up for future reference.

The un-conscious contains elements resulting from social or/and genetic programs, and shadow projections of non-integrated sub-conscious elements.
As we live our experience we constantly choose to see it in terms of socially accepted norms. In this case we limit our mental dialogue and seldom try to own or integrate our sub-conscious intimations.

5. The manifest expression reflects the balance between order and liberty within consciousness.


Call this carpenters philosophy. I cannot hope a piece of wood into place, and despair never repairs badly done work. No, I see that it is bad, admit my mistake, (own it rather than trying to bury it), and then proceed to fix it.

Hope; fuck hope, it never ever did anything for me. Despair, same thing, quit whining. You will never get the real freak on if it's not rock and roll. Rock and roll can't be whiney.

Hope and despair are melodramatically paralyzing responses that seek to defer responsibility. Great it’s not your fault, but your life is still fucked up.

As to the ‘category manipulation’ question, and thank-you for it, go back to Ireanius for a convenient starting point. He realized that by establishing a common doctrine, the logistics of controlling far-flung churches would be more easily affected. Another, and perhaps more important effect was to quell the ‘enthusiasm’ that was characteristic of the early church. After the machinations of the Consul of Nicea, which effectively put ‘God’ off in the distance, (another subject), the bishops and monarchs were left for many centuries safe in their castles-counting their loot. In their off time they marveled at the credulity of their subjects and schemed on how to re-rope the peons in case they ever started to think for themselves. This did indeed finally happen, because of the Black Death, tons of rag paper, and the invention of the printing press.

Descartes, backed by Jesuits comes to the rescue, separates the physical and the spiritual, puts God back off in the distance, and presto chango, nothing changes. Enthusiasm is quelled again.

And another question. What were the money counters thinking while they counted all of their masters money?

For me the “learning is also forgetting” refers to the fact that any form will reveal some substance while at the same time it will occlude other substance. Only when we create new criteria for understanding informed by substance currently occluded, would we be able to dispense with these dualistic forms that are so quick to treat the ‘other’ as a threat.

One mental experiment that I have done is to ask; when I am old, what will it have taken, to be able to look back at my life and legitimately say, “I am happy with the life that I have lived.” What makes up the greatest bulk of ones life? Well it’s certainly the mundane elements rather than the special events. 90, maybe 95% of ones life is mundane. Also, special events seem to orient towards objects rather than the space in between, where life is really lived. The ego finds validation in events, (history and memory), while our essential Being is found in better observation of the Now. That is, substance is found through awareness rather than intellect.

Personally, I try to ‘mine’ for information anywhere I am at that time. Because most people operate under different assumptions than the ones I carry, the presentation must be picked through to separate the material that depends on the presenters assumptions from material that stands independent from said assumptions. Arguments require good information if they are to have convincing power. I can get information then without necessarily accepting the argument. To deal with the fact that my own assumptions may be wrong I will attach ‘possibility factors’ to all attempts to order information. Its a sloppy and long process, but it sure beats the either/or attitude.

See Shrub, this is the difference between you and me. When I applied the ‘Talking Cure’ to my daughters they were left with a sense of awe at the size of the world. My younger daughter specifically thanked me for helping her to build a large vocabulary. You, -you just scare the shit out of your daughter. Good job buddy.

10/20/2007 10:23:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

See Shrub, this is the difference between you and me. When I applied the ‘Talking Cure’ to my daughters they were left with a sense of awe at the size of the world. My younger daughter specifically thanked me for helping her to build a large vocabulary. You, -you just scare the shit out of your daughter. Good job buddy.

Wow, Surrender, I hope you're taking this all in. He's really revealing his true colors, isn't he now? Of course, he provides us anecdotal evidence of his influence on others and their views of him. My revelation about my daughter was not an anecdote...his revelation about his daughters was an anecdote about what a wonderful human being he is and how his approach in life is so superior to mine and much more effective, by the way.

Let's face it, Surrender, Sounder's just a much better person than me....and you know what? If Sounder is considered a good person, based on his behavior here, I'm proud to be labeled the opposite.

Sounder...he preaches non-dualism, but practices the exact opposite. For the record, I feel no compulsion to defend my record as a Father and a Husband, as you do, Sounder. That says something about you, doesn't it though? You're something of a Braggert and you believe this to be a competition. You're a Little Man, Sounder, and this latest tactic proves as much...but then, I figured that about you early on.....that you were cowardly like that.

Meanwhile, Alanta now has 78 days of water left...or is it 77? And, Sounder pretty much has said that such thinking is Conspiratorial and I am Alarmist and full of shit, and had I not said those nasty things about Ron Paul, I wouldn't be in this predicament...okay, maybe he didn't say the last thing, but he said or implied the rest. He's right, I guess, and so is Mark. The Motherfuckers in New Orleans deserved what they got. The solutions were there but they were to lazy to follow Mark's and Sounder's links and advice....and so it will be with the Atlantans. You Reap what you Sow....hmmmm, that term sounds so damn familiar....could it be....RELIGION?

And, you're wrong, Sounder, solutions are not presented here. If they were solutions, Jeff's blog would be superfluous.

10/20/2007 12:19:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

Despite the acrimony and all the personal, highly emotional stuff here...

This isn’t really an argument, guys. Not in the sense of two opposing sides with different agendas, etc. Both here and in the larger world, everyone wants pretty much the same thing. Peace, happiness, freedom from want…maybe even a little fulfillment (if that’s not too much to ask.)

That we’re in a dire predicament is rather obvious; that we can extricate ourselves much less so. One very encouraging sign is that we here (and in many, many other internet communities) are trying to approach the problems we face and the solutions we offer up for discussion with an open mind. This is a lot trickier than it sounds, though. It means being able to make distinctions with an open mind—finding the good in something rather than rejecting it along with any other elements which we find unpalatable. This is why simple litmus tests don’t work—no one has God’s eye. Even the best plans have weak spots, while even the biggest lies carry kernels of truth in their rotten hearts.

Here’s a quick example. While many of us are suspicious of the Kabbalah for a variety of reasons, I’ve got a short essay by a modern-day Kabbalist, Rav Michael Laitman called The Necessity of Altruism which describes very nicely the problem of Ego & Separation, around which much of this discussion has turned, not to mention the quickening downward spiral around us. Even better, it’s a great exercise in that paradoxical method I mentioned—the ability to make distinctions with an open mind.

As long as we continue to think in either/or, us/them terms, and this means in allowing there to be wealth and poverty, every man (or nation) for itself, then no solution will work. We’ve so long been conditioned to stand behind fences, guarding our property and our freedom that we can’t see that the fences are really prison walls and that we are both guard and prisoner. The “failure of socialism” is the greatest propaganda campaign since the first wave of the great separation when we gave up our natural state to work on Maggie’s Farm.

This is not to say that socialism as it’s been sold to us is the answer—far from it—but merely that when the leaders in the West tell their fearful subjects that “free trade” is liberating (ignoring entirely both the lessons of Jacob Marley’s chain and the inevitability of manipulation, monopoly & scarcity in the “marketplace”), and that the greatest threat facing “Us” is radical Islamism (or whatever the bogeyman du jour might be), instead of the rapidly approaching full spectrum dominance of the globalization of elite power, then they’re only fortifying the fences that already hold us in.

So, here’s the exercise. I’m going to reprint a small excerpt from Laitman’s Necessity of Altruism and, if you’re interested, see if you can keep an open mind—finding the good—while making distinctions between what you value and what you don’t. Personally, I had the impression that the whole New World Order thing might be the classic double ploy—making us fear coming together as equals while uniting us as pyramid-step subjects of the very hegemony we’ve been made to fear. There’s even a counterpart to the Agency’s Total Information Awareness program…

(begin excerpt)
Altruism - The Law of Nature

Actually, altruism is not an option. It just seems as if we can choose whether to be egoistic or altruistic. But if we examine Nature, we will find that altruism is the most fundamental law of nature. For example, each cell in the body is inherently egoistic. But to exist, it must relinquish its egoistic tendencies for the sake of the body’s well-being. The reward for that cell is that it experiences not only its own existence, but the life of the whole body.

We, too, must develop a similar connection with each other. Then, the more successful we become at bonding, the more we will feel Adam’s eternal existence instead of our passing physical existence.

Especially today, altruism has become essential for our survival. It has become evident that we are all connected and dependent on one another. This dependency produces a new and very precise definition of altruism: Any act or intention that comes from a need to connect humanity into a single entity is considered altruistic. Conversely, any act or intention that is not focused on uniting humanity is egoistic.

It follows that our oppositeness from Nature is the source of all the suffering we are seeing in the world. Everything else in Nature—minerals, plants, and animals—instinctively follow Nature’s altruistic law. Only human behavior is in contrast with the rest of Nature and with the Creator.

Moreover, the suffering we see around us is not just our own. All other parts of Nature also suffer from our wrongful actions. If every part of Nature instinctively follows its law, and if only man does not, then man is the only corrupted element in Nature. Simply put, when we correct ourselves from egoism to altruism, everything else will be corrected, as well—ecology, famine, war, and society at large.

Enhanced Perception

There is a special bonus to altruism. It may seem as if the only change will be putting others before ourselves, but there are actually far greater benefits. When we begin to think of others, we become integrated with them, and they with us.

Think of it this way: There are about 6.5 billion people in the world today. What if, instead of having two hands, two legs, and one brain to control them, you had 13 billion hands, 13 billion legs, and 6.5 billion brains to control them? Sounds confusing? Not really, because all those brains would function as a single brain, and the hands would function as a single pair of hands. All of humanity would function as one body whose capabilities are enhanced 6.5 billion times.

Wait, we’re not done with the bonuses! In addition to becoming superhuman, anyone who becomes altruistic will also receive the most desirable gift of all: omniscience, or total recall and total knowledge. Because altruism is the Creator’s nature, acquiring it equalizes our nature with His, and we begin to think like Him. We begin to know why everything happens, when it should happen, and what to do should we want to make it happen differently. In Kabbalah, this state is called “equivalence of form,” and this is the purpose of Creation.

This state of enhanced perception, of equivalence of form, is why we were created in the first place. This is why we were created united and were then broken—so we could reunite. In the process of uniting, we will learn why Nature does what it does, and become as wise as the Thought that created Nature.(*)

When we unite with Nature, we will feel as eternal and complete as Nature. In that state, even when our bodies die, we will feel that we continue to exist in the eternal Nature. Physical life and death will no longer affect us because our previous self-centered perception will have been replaced with a whole, altruistic perception. Our own lives will have become the life of the whole of Nature.


* this certainly puts a diffeent spin on our purpose in life, or in the purpose of Life...not to mention that the "evil ones" whose outrages force us to "reunite" might really be "evil" tools in the service of "good"...

Yeah, well, we knew life was a cosmic pretzel, didn't we?

Again, what's been going on in this thread is not really an argument. This might sound strange coming from me, considering how caustic my own exchanges with Drew were on this very same thread, but it's true. We do have some disagreements, but that's not really very important.

No one is of any greater value than anyone else.

Our fundamental connectedness doesn't allow for such a thing. You can't even say that one person is the brains of an outfit, while another occupies some other, less dignified position:

I am he as you are he
as you are me
and we are all together
See how they run like
pigs from a gun
see how they fly
I'm crying...

(Btw, Shrub, I don't think people sitting together over a fire discussing solutions will ever be superfluous...especially at this point, when so few people even believe in the possibility of solutions.)

10/20/2007 01:11:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

(Btw, Shrub, I don't think people sitting together over a fire discussing solutions will ever be superfluous...especially at this point, when so few people even believe in the possibility of solutions.)

And, like you, neither do I, but I never said that, did I? I said Jeff's Blog would be Superfluous. Jeff's Blog is not "people sitting together over a fire discussing solutions," at least to me it's not.

I think any meaninglful solution, and when I say solution I don't just mean a model of what the future could be, would make the Internet and Blogging, in general, superfluous. The Internet is a piss-poor proxy for physical connectedness....and any meaningful Holistic Solution would give rebirth to that physical connectedness. Also, any meaningful Holistic Solution would be a perpetual challenging of assumptions in order to avoid the entrenchment of Orthodoxy. Questioning and offering of solutions, not just models of the future, should be an encouraged and perpetual part of any earnest proposal.

10/20/2007 02:26:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

10/20/2007 05:51:00 PM  
Blogger ericswan said... may be over reacting to media reports. This chicken little thing about Atlanta doesn't seem to be bothering anyone in the water business down there except the sheriff who has indicated that his people will no longer be washing their patrol cars. In fact, Shrubb, water restrictions on outdoor use have been in place since spring and that hasn't changed. In fact Shrub, this is the only contingency that has been required in the entire water region.

Drew...your link (unlike the one above) does not work.

10/20/2007 06:33:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here are some links concerning the Water Crisis in Northern Georgia.

Incredible. No Fucking Back-Up Plans. Tell me this doesn't sound like another Katrina Disaster in the making? If the taps run dry there will be mass chaos. There will be a significant refugee issue. It's not like it can't happen again....we knew it would.

No Back Up Plan!!

Here's another one. It's from Free Republic....not a site I ever visit, it just came up on google search. What caught my eye was that Doodad from the Forum posted to it.


From the above link a poster has this to say:

About half of all water used (71 billion gallons out of 140 billion gallons per day) is used for irrigation. Only about 13.1 billion gallons per day is used for public and rural water supply. The rest is industry and power production.

So, think about the amount used for irrigation and contrast that with Drew's link about Natural Agriculture.

10/20/2007 06:53:00 PM  
Blogger ericswan said...

If I were looking to vote for a president...

Thursday 18 October 2007

Washington - Sen. Chris Dodd, D-Conn., said Thursday that he will block a Senate vote on a White House-backed surveillance bill because it would include legal immunity for telecommunications companies that helped intelligence agencies carry out warrantless surveillance of Americans.

Dodd, a presidential candidate, said he will use his senatorial "hold" power to prevent the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act legislation from being considered by the full Senate. The move would effectively stall a measure that President Bush and Director of National Intelligence Mike McConnell have said is essential to protect national security.

10/20/2007 07:19:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

10/20/2007 08:31:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Natural Agriculture is based on Jyorei which is qigong.

10/20/2007 08:34:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Of course you gotta get initiated with an Ohikari -- a sacred silk amulet with Chinese characters on it. There's always a complication....

10/20/2007 08:48:00 PM  
Blogger Mark said...

Sponsored Rhodes Scholar, Governor of Louisiana Jindal, Gets into the political elite of the USA, Sees Demon Possession at Oxford:

Jindal [parents born in India, their son born in New Orleans; and the future governor of Louisiana,] was born Hindu but converted to Catholicism as a teenager. He has also offered testimony before Baptist and Pentecostal congregations since the beginning of the 2007 campaign season.[3]. He attended high school at Baton Rouge Magnet High School. In 1991, [starting the same boring greasy pole as almost all U.S. high political elites] he graduated from [a place like] Brown University in Providence, Rhode Island, with honors in biology and public policy. [Below it says he graduated in 1992 instead.]

Afterwards, he received a master's degree in political science from New College, Oxford as a Rhodes Scholar.

That is a major Willy Wonka-like golden ticket in to sponsored leader positions in the Anglo-Americal led NWO.

"I've got a golden ticket..."

"In 1995, [1] U.S. Congressman Jim McCrery (R-LA) introduced his former aide (Jindal) to Republican Governor Murphy J. "Mike" Foster, Jr.. Foster subsequently appointed Jindal, then age of twenty-four, to be Secretary of the Louisiana Department of Health & Hospitals, an agency then representing about 40 percent of the state's budget; he served from 1996 to 1998. [2] From 1998 to 1999 [still not 30 years old], he was executive director of the National Bipartisan Commission on the Future of Medicare. He was also the youngest-ever president of the University of Louisiana System between 1999 and 2001 [when he was just around 30 years old. The NWO elites love to sponsor visibility to these ceremonial educational positions. President Wilson came out of this loop. Eisenhower, a military general and cold warrior, was put in at Columbia University etc.] Newly-[s]elected President George W. Bush appointed him Assistant Secretary of Health and Human Services for Planning and Evaluation; he held that post from 2001 to 2003 [in his early 30s]....

A few weeks after the 2003 gubernatorial runoff [that he failed to get the Louisana Governorship position against Democrat Gov. Blanco--so the Bushies were attempting to set up 'their 30something unexperienced man on the spot' Jindal over the future Katrina disaster], Jindal decided [or it was decided for him like a lot of opportunites handed him in his life] to run for Louisiana's 1st Congressional District [in the most gerrymandered district possible to get him in power]. The incumbent, David Vitter, was running for the Senate seat being vacated by John Breaux. He moved to Kenner to run for the congressional seat. He was endorsed by the Louisiana Republican Party in the primary despite the fact that Mike Rogers, also a Republican, was running for the same seat. The 1st District has been in Republican hands since a 1977 special election and is widely considered to be the most Republican district in Louisiana. ["I've got a golden ticket..."] Although Democrats have a plurality in registration, the 1st tends to vote for socially conservative candidates. Jindal also had an advantage because his campaign was able to raise over a million dollars very early in the campaign, making it harder for other candidates to effectively raise funds to oppose him. He won with 78 percent of the vote [in the safest of the safe gerrymandered Republican districts].

[Immediately,] He was
- elected Freshman Class President, and
- appointed to the House Committee on Homeland Security,
- the House Committee on Resources,
- and the House Committee on Education and the Workforce.

Furthermore, he was made the Vice-Chairman of the House Subcommittee on the Prevention of Nuclear and Biological Attacks."

Feel safe yet?

Better still, while at Oxford getting his golden ticket he wrote an article for the New Oxford Review (1994) claiming he personally witnessed a friend being possessed by a demon...and even felt impinged upon momentarily himself by something he couldn't explain and didn't really want to believe happened because he experienced a crisis of his Catholic faith in the event in his telling of it.

Two years later after this experience he was the executive in charge of 40% of Louisiana's budget, at the desk of his first job at 24 years of age. Appoint them young and you control them via insecurity for the rest of their lives. (Same principles as the dynamics around appointing child emperors really...The backstage groups keep control due to the inexperience and lack of friends of the one in formal control.)

Jindal's crisis of faith article is at:

4^ "BEATING A DEMON: Physical Dimensions of Spiritual Warfare," New Oxford Review, December 1994

After a teaser bit, the Catholic publication wants you to pay for the rest of the article. However, there is a PDF of it in posted elsewhere as a scanned paper article.

The original link that Jindal saw published in 1994 is:

Physical Dimensions of Spiritual Warfare

December 1994
By Bobby Jindal

Updated bio (2007): Bobby Jindal converted to Catholicism from Hinduism as a teenager. In 1992, he graduated from Brown University, where the following events took place. Afterwards, he received a master's degree in politics from New College, Oxford as a Rhodes Scholar. He is currently serving his second term in the United States House of Representatives (R-Louisiana) and is a candidate for Governor of Louisiana in the October 20, 2007 election. [He won.] Some of the names in this article, but none of the details, have been altered by the author.

Though she had not said anything, I knew something was wrong. Susan and I had developed an intimate friendship; indeed, our rela­tionship mystified observers, who insisted on finding a romantic component where none existed.

I called her after the University Christian Fellowship (UCF) meeting -- UCF is an Inter-Varsity Christian group composed of undergraduate and graduate students.

Though the interdenominational group's weekly program of songs and prayers had produced the usual emotional high among most members, Susan had left the meeting in a very sullen mood.

I asked her to join a group of us who were attending a Chris­tian a cappella concert to be held on campus that same evening.

Despite our intimacy, Susan and I had not spent much time together this past year. We had succumbed to pressure from our friends and de­cided we should not be so emotionally interdependent without a deeper commitment. To be honest, my fears of a relationship and the constraints of commitment had kept us apart; our friends' objec­tions merely provided a convenient excuse. Still, I felt comfortable asking her to come to the concert, and she accepted the invitation.

Though Susan ap­peared composed throughout the concert, her sud­den departure in the middle of a song convinced me otherwise and affirmed my earlier suspicions.

There was no doubt in my mind that I had to leave my friends and follow her outside. I was not exactly sure what I would do or say, but I knew I had to run after her. I found that she had not gone far, but was sobbing uncontrollably outside the auditorium. Since we had been very careful to avoid any form of physical contact in our friendship, I was not sure how to respond. My inaction and her sobs produced a very awkward situation.

Fortunately, a female friend who followed us out was able to comfort Su­san with hugs and soothing words of reassurance; her quick action was in stark contrast to my paraly­sis. Once Susan had regained her composure and fell silent, I knew I had to intervene.

The female friend meant well, but did not know Susan well enough to provide the advice Susan was sure to seek.

Not even knowing the cause of this raucous scene, I asked Susan if she would like to talk, and volunteered to walk her home.

Wanting to avoid any additional embarrassing scenes, I thought it best to remain in silence while we walked. I dared not cause another emotional outpouring until we were safely behind closed doors. When we finally reached her dorm room, I promptly sat Susan on a bed and placed myself in a chair located several feet across the room. This physical arrangement was hardly conducive to the love and support I was supposed to be providing, but I was too scared and unsure of myself to get any closer...."

The rest of the article is missing--though you can pay $1.50 to see it.

Daily Kos posted it at one point as a PDF--though have quickly removed it in 2007 without removing the links to it. Down the memory hole...with a weblink afterglow...

Here's someone on what it said there:

Jindal and Satan

I received an interesting article written in December 1994 by Lousiana gubernatorial candidate Bobby Jindal (R) for the New Oxford Review, an "orthodox Catholic magazine." The piece is titled "Physical Dimensions of Spiritual Warfare" and is about one of Jindal's friends from Brown University getting possessed by the devil. In the [rest of the] article, Jindal suggests that he too came under attack by the devil.

As this Christian Science Monitor profile makes clear, Jindal does not hide the importance of his faith -- including his own conversion from Hinduism to Catholicism -- but I've never before seen anything like this come up in a campaign.

Unfortunately, the article is not available online. [Actually, that is a lie, it is available, though it costs a fee.]

Update: While there's no mention of Jindal's writings on his campaign website, there's a listing of his published works on page 100 of his Senate confirmation hearing transcript. He wrote quite a bit about religion in the early part of his career.

Update II: Dan Conley has read the article and has some very good observations.
[A 2003 comment, it has disappeared as well:]

Update III: Kos has posted a PDF of the article with this important note: "Religious faith alone does not, obviously, disqualify a candidate for any political office. The question is whether an official can resist the temptation to use the trappings of his or her office to evangelize or otherwise attempt to impose religiosity on the public." ["Kos" removed it as well only this past year.]

So, here's to sort things out:

November 07, 2003
Bobby Jindal's Demon

On the Political Wire website today there is a brief about Louisiana gubernatorial candidate Bobby Jindal's December 1994 article in the New Oxford Review about his personal experience with a demonic possession.

I've read the article, but it is not in a format that I can post on the web. In it, Jindal details his relationship with a woman he knew when he was in his early 20s and exposes a very painful experience she went through that, depending on your point of view, was either a deep psychological trauma with religious overtones or a full-out possession by Satan.

My view of the article is that Jindal is entitled to his personal religious beliefs, even if he chooses to expose them in a very public, potentially embarassing manner. I appreciate the seriousness he brings to discussions of faith and I'm intrigued by his journey from growing up a Hindu to embracing Catholicism.

But there are some things about the article that do disturb me. For one, I think Jindal is exploiting a very painful episode by a close friend to make a point about his own faith. He says that he changed the names to protect the innocent, but the actors in the drama all know who they are and it probably wouldn't take much digging for an intrepid reporter to find them. I think it would be absolutely horrible if this woman, who may very well have serious psychological issues, is forced to deal with this incident in a very public manner today because of an article Jindal felt obliged to write in 1994. I beg reporters to stay away from this woman this weekend, she could be suicidal for all we know.

Second, I think the story has so many elements of Magical Realism that are typical of Indian films and literature that I'm never quite sure whether Jindal is playing it straight or exaggerating his own personal experiences for effect. If he is playing it straight, then I cannot explain the tortured prose and bizarre, veiled description of his relationship with "Susan."

Trust me folks, if you have any appreciation for the English language, you really don't want to read this piece. Be happy I did it for you. [I don't see that at all actually.]

UPDATE: Some people have asked why I even care about Jindal and the Louisiana governor's race. Fair question, because I don't. I generally don't care what happens in governor's races in states other than Illinois. If Louisiana wants to elect a man who believes in demonic possession, so be it. His colorful past will fit right in with the roster of wackos and miscreants who've held that office.

... [Rest removed as just purple prose.]

Posted by Dan Conley at November 7, 2003 02:44 PM | TrackBack fetched Kos's PDF as well, presumably deleted sometime in early 2007 from the last scan date of December 2006 this last copy.

The PDF link.

The short of it is that his friend Susan came down with some form of skin cancer. She was charismatic Christian, whose mother dabbled in pagan sacrifice in the Far East. (Don't ask.)

Later, after her operation to remove the cancer was scheduled, "Susan" erupted in some sort of possession event in a group prayer meeting. She was held down in the meeting for hours, reciting in intricate detail lots of intimate details of people's private lives Jindal claims he could not imagine how she knew. Jindal's proper Indian/Oxbridge writing still conveys his sheer horror at this occurring to his closest female friend at Oxford.

After several hours, in which a priest refused to come to the group late at night, and in which Jindal worried that if he had come he would have been powerless and it would have led to a further crisis of Jindal's Catholicism, Susan in the midst of gutteral screaming and cursing to be released or cursing at being forced to read Bible passages, finally 'wakes up.' She was completely oblivious to what she had been doing for the past several hours--being held down on the floor while more distant friends of "Susan" were holding her down and while Jindal her presumed closest friend was shrinking against the wall refusing to participate in the ad hoc exorcism attempt.

Susan expressed a complete lack of memory of the whole multiple hour events. Jindal said she acted like she woke up from sleep (even though she had been 'awake'), and asked what had been going on.

Jindal mentions that "Susan's" skin cancer disappeared after this hands on faith healing and she no longer required the operation that she had been scheduled for. No explanation.

Nothing particularly revealing about Jindal in this, except how emotionally cold, insecure, and self-analytical he is or was.


10/21/2007 05:28:00 AM  
Blogger Sounder said...

Shrub said...

“And, like you, neither do I, but I never said that, did I? I said Jeff's Blog would be Superfluous. Jeff's Blog is not "people sitting together over a fire discussing solutions," at least to me it's not.”

I do not think that IC was using that analogy in a malicious way Shrub, and you really ought to relax a bit.

“I think any meaningful solution, and when I say solution I don't just mean a model of what the future could be, would make the Internet and Blogging, in general, superfluous.”

Fair point, but that will be that day, and right now it is this day.

“The Internet is a piss-poor proxy for physical connectedness....and any meaningful Holistic Solution would give rebirth to that physical connectedness.”

I can not agree more. I want to tell stories about my Roofer neighbor. Rough up bringing, really smart and dealing with the crap created in his life with great character. He jokes that I come over only so that I can feel better about my life. Not true, and while he plays at being alienated, he loves animals and seems to value connections with others.

“Also, any meaningful Holistic Solution would be a perpetual challenging of assumptions in order to avoid the entrenchment of Orthodoxy.”

Bingo again. The way I express this is to say; the presenting or taking of relative truth as being absolute truth produces pathology.

“Questioning and offering of solutions, not just models of the future, should be an encouraged and perpetual part of any earnest proposal.”

I can relate to your irritation at all these models of the future. My ‘solutions’ attempt to model reality, rather than the future.

From before Shrub said...

"Sounder...he preaches non-dualism, but practices the exact opposite. For the record, I feel no compulsion to defend my record as a Father and a Husband, as you do, Sounder. That says something about you, doesn't it though? You're something of a Braggert and you believe this to be a competition. You're a Little Man, Sounder, and this latest tactic proves as much...but then, I figured that about you early on.....that you were cowardly like that."

Wow.. hey dude, I know this news may disappoint you, but when I need to hire someone to speak for me, you will not get the job. Hehehehehehe. If you knew my daughters you would not resent my appropriate pride in them. So yes maybe I am a braggart, but cowardly? Where is the connection?

Anyway all in all Shrub, you are right. This internet thing is a piss poor way to connect. My ‘Talking Cure’ doesn’t seem to work at all over it.

10/21/2007 08:03:00 AM  
Blogger Brainpanhandler said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

10/21/2007 08:28:00 AM  
Blogger Sounder said...

Shrub, my neighbor the roofer is an atheist and we get along just fine. Seeing all the complications he creates in his life, a long, long chain of entanglements, he has become committed to Karma and concepts of altruism. He may not intellectualize it, but he is embracing an earlier link on the chain of causation. He is reaching into the ineffable or the pre-manifest for guidance as to the actions he chooses. So, while this may not be religion, it still seems to be an inherent reaching for a better way to be.

10/21/2007 08:40:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

10/21/2007 11:01:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


I'm not an Atheist....I just gravitated to that Forum because of my search for a place that could discuss topics in a critically thinking environment free from the vices of Religion. What I soon came to realize was that Atheism is every bit as much an Orthodoxy/Religion as Religion in the Conventional sense. Many of the Atheists are as focused on the concept of God as are those of the Abrahamic Traditions. A complete waste of time, if you ask me. Behind the security blanket of Religion, in its many manifest forms, are the shackles that bind you to ignorance.

For the record, I didn't think IC was malevolent in his campfire comment....I just wanted to clarify that his comment didn't preclude my assertion. I am need to worry about that. We spent time with our Dominican friends last night. They harped on about the Greatness of America and how they would beat the shit out of anyone they saw burning the American Flag. I kept my mouth shut...can you believe that? Shrub keeping his mouth shut? I did it for the wife and keep the peace. It could easily have come to blows if I really went off on them. Don't get me wrong, I like them, for the most part, but I find it extremely difficult to tolerate Jingoism. One of their sons was wearing a T-Shirt with a flag that said "American Pride" with an Eagle over it.

10/21/2007 01:07:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


Thanks for the links. We are out of balance. One of the discussions at our Dominican Friend's house last night was Global Warming. Thye're deniers and the high CO2 levels are due to too many Cow Farts. I guess that's my real concern. How do you change, or influence that mindset? If we are to mitigate this impending environmental disaster without a calamity, how do you get people like this, who appear to be the majority, to change their view, because we can't do it without them, collectively?

10/21/2007 01:12:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Politics is just psychology. Basically your politics is hard-wired by puberty (when the territorial hormones mature and whatever environmental conditions influenced them at that crystallization).

The higher up the political food chain the more thugs you encounter -- that's the other rule of politics.

Ironically "saving the planet" is based on not changing anything at all. It's global existentialism -- the ability for the human species to confront its own death.

So the easy out is "transhumanism" or the religion of technology through quantum chaos. So you can have Gore's green-tech fix or you can have Lovelock's nuke the planet plan. Both of these are the "return of the repressed" through science.

Neither option works because both necessitate humans becoming increasingly automated. Science controls humans, cutting humans off from reality, while Mother Nature gives us freedom as a total mystery -- ever fresh, ever new.

In Vedic philosophy the idea is based on Kala as time and Kali (the Goddess that even Brahman bows down to!) as consciousness beyond time.

In this sense your friends are right -- the Cow Fart is just the Milky Way as Hathor, the Cow Goddess of Egypt which Brahman (Bull) churned up as well. Through the Oedipus Complex, justice is blind butt it CAN BE HEARD.

10/21/2007 01:50:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

Scary stuff, Drew. For those who didn’t follow Drew’s last link, it was called Upper Midwest Forests Are Losing Diversity, Complexity from ScienceDaily (Oct. 17, 2007) and its tagline was “Forests in the nation's Upper Midwest have changed greatly since the time of the early settlers. And more changes may be coming.” It goes on to talk about the still little understood connection between plant diversity and animal diversity in the larger context of a living biosphere.

E.O. Wilson was one of the first to make this point in his Biophilia Hypothesis. He talked about the tiny percentage of flora & fauna that we’ve even identified much less understood in their function in the dynamic of Nature…as well as the fact that we’re extincting 200 species a day, a trend that is accelerating.

Gloomy stuff. It’s inspired both a lot of eco-fascism and doomsday pontificating, but precious little in the way of figuring out what to do. Rudy Rucker, whom Drew and I have been referring to for our different reasons, once wrote in The Lifebox, the Seashell, and the Soul: What Gnarly Computation Taught Me About Ultimate Reality, the Meaning Of Life, and How To Be Happy (and which you can read chapters 1, 2, and 4 of online here) that we’d never have the computer power to model even the swirling of the water when we flush the toilet, much less the weather and whole ecosystems. (Appropriate image, I know.)

And yet…

Rucker also wrote a life of Bruegel called As Above, So Below: A Novel of Peter Bruegel in which he describes the famous painter’s ability to see the whole in the particular…the micro-macro heuristic key to understanding very large, very complex systems. This is why I like the Fractal Universe and the Y-Bias and Angularity: The Dynamics of Self-Organizing Criticality ideas so much.

It is possible, following Rucker’s logic and despite his talk about the difficulty in modeling every single factor in large systems, to understand the whole through a study of the particular, if the pattern repeats.

We talk about reforestation here a lot, along with a great many here-and-now solutions that our friend Mark brings to the table, which is obviously important, but we haven’t acknowledged that planting trees everywhere might not be the answer in itself. If we had an idea of how the larger systems functioned, we might be able to minimize the interventions necessary to nurture the re-diversification of life on the planet.

A while back an Aussie friend of mine wrote a brilliant piece that contained some real gems in this area. He embedded great links throughout that piece. This, for example, is an article that talks about the importance of where you plant those trees. This one talks about copying the way the plants use sunlight so efficiently, instead of blindly plodding along the Western path of Techno-Death (which hasn’t come anywhere close to Nature’s efficiency) in search of solutions.

He also turned me on to Terra Preta, the black earth secret of the ancient Amazonians (even before Mark did), which is part of a closely guarded/fiercely contested/simply unknown fact that those “primitive” peoples in the Americas before the West landed had been practising rather high levels of silviculture for thousands of years.

We like to tell ourselves that it was an unspoiled, untouched wilderness that we tamed or raped, depending on one’s perspective, because we can’t tolerate the idea that some little brown savages might have known some thing we didn’t. The fact is that we are part of Nature whether we know it and act like or not. It’s not a question of whether we should attempt to do anything, whether terra-forming is ethical or possible, when we’re altering the earth by out very presence.

Sitting here right now, tapping code into our ever so eco-friendly machines, we’re already transforming the earth. We’re shitting whether we’re sitting on that pot or not.

As for Shrub and Sounder not liking the some of the “futures” envisioned here, well, that’s fine, as far as it goes, but how far does it go? What would you guys suggest in place of some the green, free & abundant futures we’ve talked about here? I understand the importance of perceptual/conceptual frameworks & all—I even agree—but we have a much more active role to play in what happens than sitting on the sidelines waiting for the emergent form to do its thing.

Even parasites have symbiotic relationships with their hosts—are we parasites or are we caretakers? Either way, we’ve got a job to do.

Another perspective-widening exercise is to reflect upon the fact that far, far more new plant varieties have been introduced through plain, old-fashioned Mendelian cross-breeding than through all the scary genetic modification we're so rightly afraid of.

(For those who prefer the traditional conspiracy theory approach to this problem, try the links in this post from the Church of Reality on the influence of the DuPonts, the first family of worldkillers...)

Finally, Drew:

When you give us our options as "So you can have Gore's green-tech fix or you can have Lovelock's nuke the planet plan," you're not really including all the options there, are you?

Those ancients who lived with and complemented Nature...tell me, where they choosing Al's plan or Crazy Jim's?

(It's ego-death you have to face, not human extinction, although that certainly is becoming an attractive option to some folks.)

10/21/2007 02:43:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As for Shrub and Sounder not liking the some of the “futures” envisioned here, well, that’s fine, as far as it goes, but how far does it go? misrepresented me, yet again. I can't speak for Sounder, and I won't, but I can tell you that I, unequivocally, did not say, nor did I imply what you just asserted I did. Once again, you're not listening to the unobvious sources (me, among others), and I'm afraid that's a serious faux pas on your part.

For the record, I will put in italics below what I said about Models of The Future.

I think any meaninglful solution, and when I say solution I don't just mean a model of what the future could be, would make the Internet and Blogging, in general, superfluous. The Internet is a piss-poor proxy for physical connectedness....and any meaningful Holistic Solution would give rebirth to that physical connectedness. Also, any meaningful Holistic Solution would be a perpetual challenging of assumptions in order to avoid the entrenchment of Orthodoxy. Questioning and offering of solutions, not just models of the future, should be an encouraged and perpetual part of any earnest proposal.

IC, you have to cut it the hell out, alright? I mean it. It's gone on too long with you and it is intellectually lazy and dishonest. You did the same thing with Wintler on the Forum in your knock down drag out discussion with him. Your argument was sound but your deceitful tactics of misrepresenting Wintler's words and intent only served to undermine your fine argument. I am not defending Wintler, by the way, any more than I am defending you. It's a neutral observation and you should take it as invaluable feedback in improving your approach.

10/21/2007 03:23:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Those ancients who lived with and complemented Nature...

That's your logical error IC -- and the same problem as Rudy Rucker. Rucker interviewed Kurt Godel for Rucker's book "Infinity and the Mind" but Rucker didn't really take Godel's logic seriously.

Godel states there are 3 givens and 1 real. The 3 givens are the past, present and future. The 1 REAL is formless awareness. Read "Infinity and the Mind" -- for Godel's interview. Again Godel states that time-travel works because the "ancients" would not DESIRE to change their future.

The "ancients" didn't "live with" nor "complement" but rather LISTENED TO the REAL -- which is beyond duality. Or rather they practiced the same thing as Godel -- "self-enquiry" of the I-thought.

To be fair we can state that right-hand, left-brain dominance coevolved with global climate change. Humans, as Professor William H. Calvin details in his book "The Ascent of Mind," experienced an adaptive bottleneck from the ice ages that caused a need for precision hunting skills and precise syntax communication. Darwin even wrote about this -- how an adapted function can have multiple purposes (intentional thinking and sequential coordination).

But, more importantly, is Professor Peter Ward's new book "Out of Thin Air" -- most of life's history on Earth adapted to a LOW OXYGEN environment: Dinosaurs, birds, snakes, fish.

Humans relied on oxidized magnetic iron -- hematite -- as our first form of magic aka ochre, recently traced to abstract art work 120,000 years old (quite a bit earlier than the supposed explosion of the brain around 50,000 BCE).

Nevertheless just as it was the female chimps who first used weapons for hunting (so they didn't have to get raped by males in exchange for high-iron meat), so were the female protosapiens the first users of hematite technology. Along with female use of iron-based technology was female development of syntax language, in synch with the moon cycle. This will be the focus of Professor Chris Knight's forthcoming book "The Human Conspiracy" (Yale U Press).

So again left-brain language covers up the pineal-cerebellum music-moon resonance in ecology.

The problem with William H. Calvin's analysis is he assumes that music plays a secondary role in evolution to syntax language. But, as Dr. Daniel Levitin shows in his new book "This is your brain on music" -- it's not true.

Basically modern humans are stuck in a left-brain illusion and our physiology is subconsciously controlled by our reptilian brain (as explained in the new book "The Accidental Mind" by the Johns Hopkins neuroscience chair -- the cerebellum is a millivolt inhibitor so we can't tickle ourselves, for example or better yet, regrow limbs). In Freemasonry this is called the Separation of Heaven and Earth to Maintain the Creation of Civilizatin through Mass Ritual Sacrifice (as a I detail in my blogbook,

So only by understanding nonwestern music ratios can we open up the right brain-cerebellum-heart-kidney connection to regain conscious control over our electrochemicals -- our emotions of lust, anger, fear, worry, sadness -- so that our brains can maintain a state of what qigong master Yan Xin calls

Synchronous Resonance.

This music psychic healing was the dominant human physiology for 90% of human history, as per the Bushmen culture of Africa, detailed in many anthropology books -- see "The Harmless People" by Elizabeth Marshall Thomas -- or Richard Katz' essays, among others.

So when we listen to nonwestern music and more importantly practice exercises that resonate the hormones so that ultrasound ionizes the serotonin, bypassing the blood-brain barrier, and opening up the cerebellum and cerebrum brain synapses, then our awareness of reality extends past our physical body.

This natural resonance revolution goes completely against the fractal logic that you rely on because the right-brain is based on the lunar calendar -- connected to the pineal gland-cerebellum and using natural numbers as complimentary opposites, while the Solar calendar of Freemasonry relies on left-brain, logarithmic geometry (divide and average through mass ritual sacrifice).

So even though Western farmers and Schauberger used the lunar calendar, if they didn't understand the STRUCTURAL root of the problem -- that the square root of two-based mathematics are actually a structural repression of ecological harmonics -- then the continued attempt to

"live with and complement Nature" would still be assimilated by what I call the "surplus value of consciousness" in Freemasonry.

Again we can't "live with" nor "complement" something that is formless awareness.

It's a logical paradox resolved by LISTENING -- through the 3 in 1 harmonics of the Logos or Tetrad, explained in my blogbook. The LOGOS is not based on dualistic logic.

This dualistic problem is the case with your approach because you have not studied the philosophy nor experienced the results on a physiological level. I'm telling you this because I assure you that your consciousness -- your awareness -- is still focused in the lower half of your body -- the negative emotions. I sit in full-lotus at the computer and can read the energy of the messages on the internet. Then I use the full-lotus to harmonize the energy even though it has been expressed as subconscious negative emotions.

Nevertheless you are correct that you play a role in the conspiratorial framework as conspiracy means "spiral unity." By assimilating quantum chaos without really understanding its structural logic and then promoting quantum chaos as a commodity fetish this is all part of the Freemasonic mathematics being played out.

Psychology does not rely on a logical awareness but rather an experiential transformation through confrontation with the symptom -- the Return of the Repressed. Even POE understood this natural resonance revolution as the goal of his symbolic writing was, in his words:


Symbiosis means that there is mutual positive feedback to the evolutionary adaptation of two different species -- coevolution.

The latest research on parasites (your subconscious symptom being rigint as a "para" web "site") is that the WHOLE GENOME of the parasite is injected and then passed on through the evolution of the host -- through horizontal or lateral gene transfer.

This new discovery completely changes how evolution has been understood because it shows how environmental conditions are directly passed on through heredity -- the most powerful examples of epigenetics. Lynn Margolis was more than right. Coevolution is not a matter of host-guest dynamics but rather THE RED QUEEN -- Nature remains the same through quantum biology.

All of this analysis is limited by the mathematics of containing infinity through visual-based definitions. In fact, as per Ken Norris' research, Nature relies on "sound-pictures" for a sensory integration system which is superliminal. It's not just the "habits" of resonance that Sheldrake tries to use -- the ecological adaptation is based on the Law of Pythagoras -- the natural overtones that are LISTENED TO (as pressure waves) by life in the wild.

This listening of consciousness, beyond spacetime, can not be analyzed by science because of the Time-Frequency Uncertainty Principle, as I discuss in my blogbook.

Science must come to terms with the idea that the WHOLE CAN NOT BE UNDERSTOOD BY THE PARTS. Or as the mystics state: The Cosmic Mother will Never Be Unveiled.

10/21/2007 03:59:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Heres' the "para" "site" lateral gene transfer article that completely changes how we view "coevolution." -- It's not dualistic at all.

10/21/2007 04:10:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Check out this link posted by Sepka on the Video Links Thread on the Forum. It Rocks.

10/21/2007 05:27:00 PM  
Blogger ericswan said...

IC.. When I used the term "heat magnet" with reference to generating electricity your response was to call me Mr. Cryptic with a K. I didn't think the term was toooooo cryptic but for your benefit I will give you my understanding of the term. Strictly speaking it's street talk for attracting the heat.

Shrub. I don't agree with your superfluidic remarks about the internet. I think blogging in particular is an amaziang tool and if you let it work, it could right the good ship planet Earth.

Your criticism about Jeff's blog being superfluous may be accurate but I'm not buying into that argument. I have posted solutions to the problem without asking the question "What is the problem?". My solution was not face to face contact with my neighbours but an intranet of households in the neighbourhood to solve the issues of commonality being Maslow's hierarchy of needs..

l. food, warmth and shelter

2. safety

3. love and belongingness

4. esteem

5. self actualization

You made the point that the Amish practice incest and some of the bloggers here are murderers and child molesters. I think, you of all people would prefer interracting with you next door neighbour using an intranet as opposed to IC's barn raising where who knows what could happen to the chillin.

Just to wrap this up, I see the 1 percent owning 90 percent of the wealth and the 99 percent owning a collective of the 10% left.

Incidentally, if you placed every human being on the planet in Texas every single being would occupy there own personal space of 1,000 square feet. Check "Dief for a Small Planet" for that bit and as far as cow methane goes, it's a problem that needs to be in the sphincter.

10/21/2007 08:24:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think blogging in particular is an amaziang tool and if you let it work, it could right the good ship planet Earth.

Maybe...but, then again, maybe not. It could have the exact opposite effect....a neutralizer, if you will. Nothing can substitute for Physical Connectedness, Eric. If it can one day be simulated, just as we may be simulated, well, then, so be it....but the transition from the non-simulated to the simulated is a long one, and not very appealing, IMHO.

Your criticism about Jeff's blog being superfluous may be accurate but I'm not buying into that argument.

In all fairness, I used Jeff's Blog as an example of Blogs, in general, and the Internet. It was nothing personal about Jeff, or the content of his Blog. I happen to agree with many others when they say this is a great place to hang. Jeff's Blog becoming Superfluous is to be seen as a good and natural thing, just as a tadpole becoming a frog is a good and natural thing, or a catepillar becoming a butterfly.

You made the point that the Amish practice incest and some of the bloggers here are murderers and child molesters. I think, you of all people would prefer interracting with you next door neighbour using an intranet as opposed to IC's barn raising where who knows what could happen to the chillin.

Really? You make that observation about me from that one comment about Amish people, or from what I appear to be from my posts on a Blog? You prove my point, Eric, with your Character Analysis of me. The Internet is a piss-poor proxy for physical connectedness.

The Amish are orthodox and traditional, Eric. If you've been following me, they are some of the things I have criticized and warned against in migrating to a better place for us all.

Eric, I do crave Physical Connectedness....I really do. I was built for it, physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually....and so were you, believe it, or not. It's not an either/or, dualistic proposition. It not's just the incestuous Amish and/or Ax Murderers/Child Molesters verus pseudo Autistic sitting in front of the computer typing away. The possibilities of physical connectedness are endless, and we don't have to look to past social arrangents, or derangements as the only blueprint for reconnecting.

Please elaborate on your last paragragh. I have no earthly clue as to what point you're trying to make. Is it yet another rebuttal of something I said? If so, do you find it that difficult to share any common ground with anything I have said, or posited, or do you prefer to be contrarian?

10/21/2007 09:16:00 PM  
Blogger Mark said...

I suggest that this "physical world vs. internet world" is a false dichtomony itself. The research on that is that many people who share internet conversations have multiple ways of contacting each other instead of that becoming the surrogate singular one. This is in general. Mileage may vary. Look up some of the work of Claude Fischer, Canadian sociologist...

Besides a huge number of people marry who meet on the internet as well.

Ever since travel books were popularized in Europe, people's experiences and desire to visit particular locations literally came out of an 'abstract' book of words instead of merely being satisfied with living in that abstract book of words.

You had people clambering all over the physical world to the exact same locations simply because they had read a tourism brochure about it.

You recently had a huge party of YouTubers meeting in New York to physically connect.

Pen-pals, eh? Exchange students?

There are many examples that help get over this thought binary about the internet I think.

And if the internet was so useless and divorced from reality, there wouldn't be massive illegal spying on people or for many of the people on this blog to hide their real names, eh,...? ;-)

10/22/2007 12:25:00 AM  
Blogger ericswan said...

Well ..let me see. Oh yea..I like Richard's phraseology too. I don't agree with much of his take on mankind but I do enjoy his writing.

The last part of the above is not meant to be a joke in any way. I think the planet could get along with 10% of the global GNP. I still think we need to work and I still think that the richer will get richer. But maybe, if the rich didn't need to spend all that cash on wars and global surveillance, and just go about lavishing themselves and leave the "common" alone, then the problems will solve themselves. It's when the rich take away the "common" ie. that 10% royalty on all goods and services, that the planet is headed for perdition. I'm trying to make IC's point that there is no such thing as scarcity. Human ingenuity given room to develop our full potential, can allow the rich to get richer and the poor to fulfill that American dream.

>>>Really? You make that observation about me from that one comment about Amish people, or from what I appear to be from my posts on a Blog? You prove my point, Eric, with your Character Analysis of me. The Internet is a piss-poor proxy for physical connectedness.

No Shrubb.. I made that comment based on

>>>>Chances are, some who post to this Forum are murderers and child know, the ones you so smugly labeled "good" people in your attempt to belittle me.

It should be obvious why I was banned from that Forum, Sounder. They're CIA...just like DailyKos!! HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

10/20/2007 07:20:00 AM

The point is the comment I made..not ..what you think I said..

>I think, you of all people would prefer interracting with you next door neighbour using an intranet as opposed to IC's barn raising where who knows what could happen to the chillin.


Shrubb..(if that really is your name) you wouldn't like me face to face. I'm pretty sure I know everything. hehehe


10/22/2007 12:34:00 AM  
Blogger just_another_dick said...

Here's one of my failed attempts to effect change:

About a year after i'd been at my current job, I started to wonder about the huge amount of trash we generated. Primarily my focus was on disposable diapers.

There are 24 clients per residence & 10 residences on the campus I work at. We check diapers every 2 hours, &, on average, each client requires 6 diaper changes per day.

So 24 x 10 x 6 = 1440 diapers per day. That's 525600 diapers per year. 1/2 million diapers on just our main campus alone. There are at least 100 group homes that are off campus.

So, my suggestion was to return to cloth diapers. I used economics to sell it. Shell out money now for a huge supply of cloth re-usable diapers &, in the long run, they'd pay for themselves.

The institution agreed & replaced disposable with re-usable.

Then staff started to complain. The diapers weren't as absorbent as the disposables. Clients needed more frequent changes & the messes were harder to clean. The laundry folk complained because of the huge influx of shit they now had to launder.

I understood the drawbacks. But a little more clean-up time paled in comparison to the damage all those diapers were doing.

Then the union became involved.
They called in OSHA & the Health Dept. on the grounds that using cloth diapers in this type of facility was unsanitary.

Both OSHA & the Health Dept. agreed & we returned to disposable diapers.

Now, ethically, even though my attempt failed, I know I was right.
Still, I wish I'd have kept my big Irish/Polish yap shut & never bothered at all.

OSHA & the Health Dept. also found our use of towels to clean BMs to be unsanitary, so they required the facility to buy those pre-moistened towelettes instead. More garbage. They also decided that we now needed to wear latex surgical gloves when dealing with clients & their bodily excretions. This also included oral care. Previously we just neanderthal-ed it by washing our hands between clients. Appeared to work just fine.

Clients have their teeth brushed 5 times daily. Each time this requires a fresh pair of gloves. In other words, once I brush client A's teeth, I must change the gloves before moving on to client B, and so on.

That is 1200 gloves a day, just for campus-wide oral care alone.

That's 438,000 latex gloves dumped in the trash per year.

So, in other words, my ham-fisted attempt to shrink our garbage output actually increased it by a huge amount.

"I've been told there are two major kinds of people in the world: those that curse the darkness and those that light a candle."

I'd add a third major "people" group:

Those who blow out the candle because they're too effing lazy to keep the damn thing burning.

10/22/2007 04:17:00 AM  
Blogger wwwdotnet said...


Hilarious...sad, but damned funny. i mean, just the images of shit ridden diapers, and the politics surrounding it!

my work is a small office, but I've been mentioning to the boss about becoming a sustainable company. the sustainability didn't make him bat an eyelid, but it was the prospect of being branded as such, that would attract clients -

Climate Care

As it says for business benefits -
An innovative marketing tool to improve customer retention and attract new clients.

This is how it's going to have to be played... as a marketing tool for the business, and as an image padding for the clients. I guess maybe one day it'll be done for what it is, instead of needing to be twisted into being a profit tool. People need to be prepared to change the diaper for the diapers sake! I mean, using climate care as an image, is like corporatification of masochistic boasting of a relatives death, and bathing in all it's horror glory.

A fourth group of people...

Those politicians burning wax onto innocent skin in the darkness, with nuns penetrating their sinful vaginas with big fat candlelit delight.

did i just type that out loud?

10/22/2007 06:37:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

On the internet you can behave and converse in anyway your heart wants. You can be king and ruler of the entire universe and that's that. If you cannot be this face to face you may deem it too boring and run to the heroin needle we call the world wide web and get your fix of self inflicted megalomania. There are certain things that we get away with on the internet but not in person. I enjoy face to face much better it is more honest an interaction. Though for now the internet is a decent option to use to converse with others in my opinion. Especially about topics that are common place on R. I.

10/22/2007 07:57:00 AM  
Blogger CuriosityShop said...

Since the discussion has been diverted from "harmonics", I'd like to redirect it back there, and add my little quote about "being patterns" or "tuning forks."

Some "fork" ideas from A Dangerous Book

What are we here for?

It's becoming apparent that we are not here to wave a flag, to promote an empire, to have the most of everything, while one of our brothers has nothing.

We are not here to listen to evil and selfishness. And promote those ideas in any way shape or form.

Chapter 13 -- What is Resonance?
Do you remember the tv commercial in which Ella Fitzgerald broke the wine glass with her voice (maybe it was the tape)? Have you ever turned up the volume on your stereo and heard the windows clatter? Have you ever ridden in an old car and when you reached a certain speed, the fender or something would begin to rattle?

All of these phenomena are the result of what is called resonance, from a Latin word meaning, literally, "to sound again". In fact, it is resonance in the electronic circuits of the receiver which allows you to "tune in" to a radio or tv station.

Resonance isn't strictly a physical or electrical phenomenon. When we hang out with favorite people and we are all getting into a certain rhythm of conversation, or music, or whatever, there is a resonance, a like-feeling-ness enfolding all of us. This is why musical concerts and ethnic religious gatherings can be so energizing . . . all those people in the same groove . . . the resonance goes far beyond just the physical. Angry mobs work the same way.

When a certain critical mass of people is assembled who are in the same groove, the energy so generated and focused is infectious, even to those who are not physically involved. This is a fact which has not been missed by the shapers of public opinion: fear, hatred, and animosity can be skillfully focused in support of cures` which are materially far more damaging than the alleged illnesses (e.g., the arms race, the drug wars, religious fundamentalism).

Each of us is like a radio transmitter which is on twenty-found hours a day. This transmitter broadcasts what we are thinking, how we feel, our moods and emotions, all of the moment-to-moment contents of our consciousness. Many psychic abilities amount to little more than the ability to pick up on these vibrations in much the same way that a radio can pick up the electrical noise generated by an approaching car. The phenomenon of entrainment is when many people "lock into" the same ideas or activities. The flavor of humanity at any given moment is the sum total of the transmissions of each person alive.

Every thought you have affects your body and the way it works; it also affects the world around you. That's because your mind and your body are part of You #2, while You #1 is the consciousness which is both aware of all the rest and the fundamental reality of all the rest. When you spend time in the space of You #2, doing thinking, pondering, worrying, fearing, plotting, and carrying on all of the internal conversations that we do, you are automatically including not only your own body and your environment, but also the world at large in the discussion, you are actually broadcasting yourself to the world at every moment of your existence.

Almost nobody today will argue that stress has no effect on physiology. And when you unconsciously buy into the feelings of fear or uncertainty which presently entertain large segments of the earthly population, then you will be swept right along with the masses. Your body will respond to fear and anxiety with outpourings of chemicals which,

if there is no immediate action to spend them on, will ultimately turn around and bite you instead of your imagined attackers. Worrying is like sitting in your car in your garage with the engine running, thinking about being chased down the road by the bad guys. You will gun your engine as though it were really happening, but all you are really accomplishing is burning gas, filling the air with smoke, and wearing out your engine, all to no purpose.

In the 1970's, Normal Cousins made headlines by audaciously announcing that he had healed himself of cancer by watching old comedies, by laughing a lot. The medical profession, their power and expertise threatened by these revelations, nervously discounted the results, but thousands of people around the world found the same things to be true: by changing the contents of their conscious awareness, by changing their belief systems and common sense world views, they also changed the level of health of their bodies.

This is the principle of resonance in action. To make a little clearer how it works, let us consider the lowly tuning fork. A tuning fork is usually a brightly polished little two-pronged piece of metal roughly shaped like a pickle fork, which, when struck, emits a pure and exact musical tone. They are used for tuning musical instruments, but not usually fish . . . did you every try to tuna fish?

Suppose we had a tuning fork in the key of "A". If we were to strike that fork, making it hum, and then set it next to another "A" tuning fork, the second fork will begin to vibrate as well. We don't even have to strike it; it will pick up the vibrations of the first fork through the air, and will do so because the natural resonant frequency of both forks is the same. A "B" tuning fork would just sit there quietly and refuse to hum along.

If we were to strike an "A" tuning fork, then set it down in an array of many different tuning forks, only those whose natural resonance corresponds will begin to vibrate; the rest will remain unmoved.

This is just an analogy, but it is indicative of how Normal Cousins was able to heal his cancer, and how every thought you think has an effect on you and your world. Here's the connection:

First, the energy you use to strike the tuning fork is analogous to the degree of consciousness you bring to your thoughts, the amount of energy and attention you pour into them. Most people are only partly conscious, and therefore poorly focused, which is why their impact on the world is minimal. They spend most of their time dreaming, sending out conflicting thoughts which never accomplish much because the messages are so jumbled that they end up being self-canceling. Whereas we all know people who seem to be super-charged; the energy they bring to their affairs is palpable, you can almost feel it when they walk into a room. These people resonate strongly. The more conscious you are, the more energetically you are ringing your fork.

Second, the tone of your personal tuning fork is the nature, mood, and quality of the thoughts you carry around in your head. Your world view, how you see yourself, the quality and tone of the constantly running internal conversations we all have with ourselves, all of the attitudes, biases, prejudices, and presumptions you carry around with you about life, the universe, and everything. Self-doubt and self-confidence are tones, as are self-respect, fear, anxiety, happiness, joy, and all other human emotions. These are the instructions you are broadcasting to Life, and they are also the limitations of what Life can show you of its infinitude.

Finally, the array of tuning forks is the world around you. The world around you is in fact a potentia, and unlimited repository of untried possibilities. The opportunities for success and failure, for happiness and misery are all right there, but they don't manifest until someone comes along and calls them forth, just like a seed won't sprout until it is watered.

When you are vibrating with self-doubt, then your experience in the world will show you the reflections of those thoughts, thereby reinforcing your belief that your self-doubt is justified.

Nothing is good or bad but thinking makes it so.
--William Shakespeare

When a carpenter walks into a room, what he sees is the woodwork. That's not to say that woodwork is all that's there, but his mind-set will show him what he is used to looking for; he will see in the world what his thoughts are. Likewise, an interior decorator will notice the decor and largely ignore the woodwork. Whose vision, whose version of the world is the most accurate? Are any such versions all-inclusive and therefore valid?

The principle of resonance is what motivational seminars are really all about . . . changing the tones in your head so that you can have more preferable experiences, whether the goal is selling watches or watching cellars, whether it is seeing more being, or being more seeing.

The world as it is is neither good nor bad: it simply is. Its goodness or badness, what it is, depends on who's looking at it. This is why the mass communication of the past several decades has been so profitable for governments, merchants, and other people with an agenda, "Create a need and fill it" is the cornerstone of modern market economies. For most of this century, mass communication has been used to create fear in people, then offering the most profitable antidote: Communism led to larger and more powerful killing machines. Satan led to more (900) numbers at the bottom of the tv screen. Cancer led to a multi-billion dollar health care industry. Crime led to overcrowded jails and an inhumanely brutal justice system.

Speak in the affirmative; emphasize your choice by utter ignoring of all that you reject.
--Ralph Waldo Emerson

The only portal available to any of us to escape this vicious circle is consciousness, finding that place within which is who and what we really are, and learning how to tell the difference between our thoughts and who it is that's thinking them. It means taking back the responsibility for our being from those who have usurped it. It means standing up and being who we are, refusing any longer to try to be someone we are not. It means reclaiming our natural birthrights of freedom of thought, action, and expression.

Consciousness is our only weapon. And it's what we are really here for.

10/22/2007 09:05:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Consciousness is our only weapon.'s your panties. Get with the program.

10/22/2007 09:45:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Shrubb..(if that really is your name) got me's not my real name.

My real name is Shrub with 1b, not 2bs.

Also, Eric, I seriously doubt Eve was Sabrina.

10/22/2007 10:51:00 AM  
Blogger wwwdotnet said...

Curiosity shop said -

The world as it is is neither good nor bad: it simply is. Its goodness or badness, what it is, depends on who's looking at it.

i liked your post very much, but i don't think the world is such a completely maleable thing. as much as i agree with what you're saying, which i mostly do, just that one point really, i think there does exist a streak of evil in this place, that seems obvious. no matter what way i read of satanic ritual abuse, it's going to stay "bad" in my mind. Maybe it's important to accept that the bad does exist. people operate on this. If we just say it depends on how you look at it, and everyone's reality is different, then we can't crush the crap. Resonance means that there is also a shared reality between many us. Well, i'm off to resonate back home...

10/22/2007 12:44:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well, i'm off to resonate back home...'ll be having the Pulled Pork Sandwich for lunch then?

10/22/2007 12:51:00 PM  
Blogger surrender said...

"Translation; We do better to learn by examining our experience rather than building intellectual castles to duke it out with all the other intellectual warlords."

"The only portal available to any of us to escape this vicious circle is consciousness, finding that place within which is who and what we really are, and learning how to tell the difference between our thoughts and who it is that's thinking them. It means taking back the responsibility for our being from those who have usurped it. It means standing up and being who we are, refusing any longer to try to be someone we are not. It means reclaiming our natural birthrights of freedom of thought, action, and expression.

Consciousness is our only weapon. And it's what we are really here for."

These are two statements that stand out for me after being away for a few days.


I don't understand why you responded to this as such:

"'s your panties. Get with the program."

It's not that I agree or disagree, I just don't understand.

The only thing I have to say about what is going on between you and SOUNDER is this:

Why don't you both visit me in Haiti and bring your children. A shock to your reality might shift your perception of how you both view life.

Its true what you said about you being one of the reasons I am addicted to this blog. But sometimes I think you are hiding your True Self from us. Is it because your heart is breaking, as is mine, because of the way we see what we are doing to each other and to the planet?

The response to the crisis in Atlanta is just an example of how we don't respond because most people feel helpless and what can they do, anyway. But your consciousness cannot allow you to just learn about it and then do nothing but say "Oh ho hum I guess those folks in Atlanta are in for a hard time just like those folks in California who are watching regions in their state go up in flames." or "how we have had destructive rains in Haiti for the last 6 weeks following the chemtrails in the sky that I have observed every morning for at least two months now?"

I don't have any answers for any of what we are experiencing personally and collectively. But I do know that our consciousness is the key to our evolution and more important, our survival.

If you really think I am wrong, then I will send you my panties, and we can go from there....

Please be gentle with me today. I just spent the day with our body guard assigned to us while visiting a beach yesterday. He is from Hungary and now works for a private security company. He spent two years in Iraq and he was very open and able to talk about his experience there. He went for one reason: no jobs in Hungary, joined the Hungarian Army, earned $500 a month. Joined the Iraqi coalition forces earned more, then joined the private security company and now earns even more, so that he can take care of his pregnant wife in Hungary......and observed hundreds of people including his best friend get blown to body parts by some really freaky weapons and car bombs. he said it took him 5 months to figure out the war was about control of oil....

Cheers to all!!!!!

10/22/2007 01:46:00 PM  
Blogger wwwdotnet said...

Shrub -

You seem to have a great skill at ruining many moments. You are to me, what socks are to women during love-making. (Yeah, you should take them off)

10/22/2007 01:50:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

This discussion has so badly frayed, probably because we’re all trying to express our concerns, our hopes and our disgust with the way the world is and where it’s headed without being able to build on what have in common. Instead, the differences between our perspectives are accentuated. Maybe we should try to start with what we agree on, but that seems so bloody obvious…

Still, maybe it’s worth a shot. We all agree that power & wealth are becoming increasingly concentrated in fewer and fewer hands, that the vast majority of the people alive at the present time have precious little say over how and where they live. On this blog, Jeff and many of us have spent quite a bit of time talking about how those with power have been steering world events and the perception of those events through the many systems of control they’ve put in place: the meaningless political “spectrum” (Free Trade or Free Trade Lite), tightly controlled (and controlling) institutions such as the media, the educational system, orthodox science, the military, the police (both “known” and secret), organized religion, banking, etc, etc, etc.

Time and again we’ve found clear evidence that we’ve been lied to and manipulated, that wars are not fought for the reasons we’re given and that what we have come to know as reality is not really all there is. Most websites that go in for that kind of thing are content with their mission of revealing the mechanisms of manipulation. Other webzones concern themselves with what might really be possible or true if one simply ignored the processed cheese spread sold as The Official Story. Some of these are primarily intellectual, philosophical or spiritual endeavors, while some are focused exclusively on hands on solutions and alternatives to the way we live.

What makes RI so compelling, to me at least, is that we sort of straddle the whole continuum. The problem with using such a wide lens is that it’s an awful lot of ground to cover. The further back you step in order to see as much of the whole as possible, the fuzzier and ill-defined the borders become between absolutes like “good, bad, true, false, possible, impossible.”

It very quickly becomes apparent that context and perspective are important. Somewhat further along this path, we encounter situations which force us to dispense with either/or judgments entirely. Maybe, both, and all of the above become indispensable, if disorienting tools.

Likewise, we discover that firmly held but largely unexamined convictions tend to get in the way. Worse yet is personal attachment to ideas and positions. We get around this latter impediment somewhat with the use of these silly screen names, but it’s not real anonymity in any meaningful sense of the word. The thought police know very well what are real names & locations are, and we tend to “know” each other after just a few interactions.

The only logical solution to this problem is, from my perspective, to not worry about the Brain Police, since we’re only playing with ideas anyway, and to let go of all the usual emotional luggage we cart about with us, since it just gets in the way and the ideas don’t seem to have much regard for them. All of which is a great deal easier said than done. Most of us are driven to engage in this perspective widening exchange of ideas in the first place by curiosity and passion.

If we assume that people are generally sincere, then we shouldn’t be upset by what they think because we also believe in the freedom to think and express those thoughts. That’s why questioning a person’s motivation and calling them agents of disinformation are strongly frowned upon.

The reason I just spent so much time rehashing the codes of internet discourse is because we seem to have lost sight of these core principles in the heat of what’s become more a battle than a discussion. In that spirit, I’m now going to attempt to heal some wounds that I might have played some part in inflicting and hopefully help to refocus our conversation.


You’re up first, pal. I couldn’t have mischaracterized you or your positions because I didn’t characterize them in the first place. I was merely reacting to something you said about not liking some of the “green futures” that have been put forth here. Meaning, okay, what’s your plan? That’s it. Not that you’re wrong or wrongheaded or anything else. I just wanted to know how you’d like to see things change. I'm very interested in what you think--I've tried on so mnay different pairs of glasses that I'm getting dizzy from the kaleidoscopic effect, but I still want to see what you see.


That business with Wintler2 was a complete disaster, much like my efforts at dialogue with David Brin, where I was summarily ejected for not submitting to the happy fantasy that capitalism was the road to human fulfillment. I did not make a fine argument with Wintler2, I was put entirely on the defensive and wasted a lot of time treading water in an attempt to get the discussion back on track.

It was supposed to be on the notion of scarcity & abundance and it started out pretty good. Wintler2 then came along and tried to turn it into a debate about free energy, which was not what we had been talking about at all. When pressed, he claimed that there was no manipulation of scarcity, that the Sherman anti-trust legislation had “hindered” any attempts by business interests to acquire monopolies and that anyone who believed that the oil companies and other of their ilk wielded too much influence over public policy were rabid & irrational conspiracy theorists.

Once derailed, we never got back on track; we never once got around to imagining a world based on abundance because we were all wrangling over whether or not any sort of manipulation had ever occurred. Our personalities should not have played any role in that aborted discussion, but they did once tempers were ignited. Sadly enough.


I can follow your argument and even agree with most of it, just as with Mothership, except for your conclusions. And no, it’s not because I’m thinking with my lower emotions or because I can’t transcend my bourgeois upbringing or any of that other nonsense you’ve suggested. The simple fact is that I believe that we can do something here in the world that is both material and spiritual. If All is One, then it’s pointless to speak of “techno-fixes” as if they had no spiritual component.

It’s another thing altogether to say that a particular technology or approach has an unsavory spiritual dimension or consequence, but that’s still allowing for a connection between the two.

The real problem between us is what I’ve asked you so many, many times: What would you do? I’m down with all the formless awareness, the meditational enlightenment, the whole Qigong show…but what about the rest of the world? How many Russian factory workers and American sports fans and South American serfs are going to go your route? I can tell you that my grandmother, who knew something about right action, would never have understood anything about your solar/lunar divide or anything else you find so critical to reharmonizing with Nature. And yet, she lived in harmony with Nature her whole life—she lived for 40 years without the questionable benefits modern life. She planted more trees than she cut down, she nurtured more love than hate and she did it all without a single aspect of your program.

This is another aspect of your plan that bothers me. Whenever someone claims to have a monopoly on the truth, it sounds like zealotry to me. Surely you can see that the universe is far too big to contain only a single correct perspective, right?

When Blake described seeing eternity in a grain of sand, he was caught up in a fractal vision of Life’s interconnectedness. It’s not that you can really understand the whole through just any old part, but that certain resonant structures are so intimately connected with so many others that you can get glimpses of the whole through some of these particulars.

Not God’s eye, but enough to go on. Enough to rebuild man’s habitat and societal organization so that empathy is the glue that binds us, not knowledge or even wisdom. In an abundant and thoroughly egalitarian world, even visionaries and gurus would be…no more important than anyone else.

Movie Girl,

Right on! Consciousness is everything--the tool and the end goal. Thanks!


I see.


I said I wasn't going to state the obvious anymore, but that's what promises are made for: you are the rock.

10/22/2007 01:56:00 PM  
Blogger just_another_dick said...

"This is how it's going to have to be played... as a marketing tool for the business, and as an image padding for the clients. I guess maybe one day it'll be done for what it is, instead of needing to be twisted into being a profit tool."

While I sympathize with you www, I'd suggest that you don't hold your breath while awaiting the magical "one day."

My wife's previous employer went through a huge dog & pony show in their effort to be included on some "best corporations to work" list.

One thing they emphasized was their "environmental awareness" & their "commitment to recycling."

they even included their "love of mudder earth" on their website.

Then one day, some new hire, a 22 year old kid fresh out of school & obviously still believing that reality was what he saw & not what the corporation said it was, asked why the recycle bin was dumped into the same garbage truck, and at the same time, as the rest of the trash.

My wife said the branch manager looked at him as if, instead of asking a question, he just let rip and loud a long fart.

The branch manager then sputtered a bit and promised that "he'd get back to him" with an answer.

A week or two passed & the manager told the young fella that, appearances aside, everything was well in garbage-land.
He said the trash collection truck had a "special bin" inside the hauling part where they upended the recycle bin.

Now I don't really know for sure since I only make trash rather than collect it, but that sounds like a complete load of bullshit.
Maybe those mechanical arms on garbage trucks are incredibly discriminating in where they aim things, but it really doesn't seem very plausible, does it?

Call me cynical, but I can't help feeling that the only "green" corporate America cares about is deposited in a numbered bank account in some Swiss bank.

10/22/2007 01:57:00 PM  
Blogger wwwdotnet said...


Maybe those mechanical arms on garbage trucks are incredibly discriminating in where they aim things

I like that. Revolutionary garbage machines.

Yeah, I'm not going to hold my breath. Once I've settled, I'll be hounding his ass. I'll be pulling long farts all day long.


could you send me a link to the story about the African woman bearing her breasts to the soldiers?

10/22/2007 02:15:00 PM  
Blogger messianicdruid said...

"Whose vision, whose version of the world is the most accurate? Are any such versions all-inclusive and therefore valid?"

Valid is an interesting word. It sounds so righteous! So unarguable.

Once upon a time some of the rulers came to visit Ezekiel. While they were sitting there God spoke to him and said, These fellows have imagined a vain {useless} thing, and their lawlessness {1John 3:4} is causing them to stumble. Do you think I should allow them to ask me questions?

I want you to say to them, Everyone of Israel that allows his imagination to run rampant, and hinders his way with iniquity, if he come to ask for guidance I will answer him according to his idols. In this way they will be destroyed by their own works, being separated from me by their vain imaginations. Then warn them to change their minds and turn from these disgusting things. In the same way will the prophet be deceived if he follow after other gods {rulemakers}.

Ex. 20:3 "Ye shall have no other tuning forks before me." "Be thou holy as I am holy" = Resonate with me.

10/22/2007 02:27:00 PM  
Blogger iridescent cuttlefish said...

Well, www, I went looking for that Wangari Maathai story (which I heard in a radio interview, btw, on NPR in which WM was discussing her autobiographical book, so that might be one place—NPR’s archives are usually pretty good, although you might also find it at the Greenbelt Movement’s website), and I came across a few very interestingly appropriate quotes at a place called Dust in My Eyes (“Some Personal Notes Made While Trying To See Life More Clearly”) under Wisdom in a Nutshell:

Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened.
--Sir Winston Churchill

... the 20th century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: The growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.
--Alex Carey, Australian social scientist

Injustice lies as often in the omission as comission.
-- Marcus Aurelius

Being unwanted, unloved, uncared for, forgotten by everybody, I think that is a much greater hunger, a much greater poverty than the person who has nothing to eat.
-- Mother Teresa

Also while I was there, I happened upon a garbage can story that was a little different from yours, Richard, but still full of rottenness: IRAQ: Hundreds forced to scavenge for food in garbage bins.

I loved that story about those fake green corpos—a truly green world wouldn’t need the murdering bastards at all…and yet they PR us with their talk of “creating wealth and opportunity” until I have to reach for me bucket. Aargh.


Ex. 20:3 "Ye shall have no other tuning forks before me." "Be thou holy as I am holy" = Resonate with me.

Very funny, very good.


10/22/2007 03:53:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Call me cynical, but I can't help feeling that the only "green" corporate America cares about is deposited in a numbered bank account in some Swiss bank.

Richard, I have one word for you, Richard.

Consciousness...meaning, don't be conscious, because the more conscious you are the greater the pain.....focused light will burn a gaping hole straight through your heart.

10/22/2007 04:10:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You seem to have a great skill at ruining many moments. You are to me, what socks are to women during love-making. (Yeah, you should take them off)

Really....did I burst your Bubble, Dot? So sorry. I'll refrain from saying what you are to me because I have difficulty describing the concept of nothing.

How was the sandwich, by the way?

10/22/2007 04:14:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't understand why you responded to this as such:

"'s your panties. Get with the program."

It's not that I agree or disagree, I just don't understand.

How could you possibly disagree, Surrender?

Seriously, I responded that way because I'm a terrible jerk, that's why, Surrender.

Oh, and please review the following link. Also, please tell Dot that there's nothing more loathesome thatn a witless, humorless druggy.

Panties Are The Only Weapon

In addition, I don't care that you come to this Blog because of me, and that wasn't my point, just as I'm sure Richard doesn't care if I come here because of him. I don't want to put that kind of pressure on him, so I don't want him to care, and I'm glad he doesn't. Actually, I come here for more than just Richard's juxtaposition to the resonating shroomers, but he's a significant reason.

10/22/2007 04:28:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I couldn’t have mischaracterized you or your positions because I didn’t characterize them in the first place. I was merely reacting to something you said about not liking some of the “green futures” that have been put forth here. Meaning, okay, what’s your plan? That’s it. Not that you’re wrong or wrongheaded or anything else. I just wanted to know how you’d like to see things change. I'm very interested in what you think...

Bullshit...once again. Shit, dude. I even went and retrieved what I said and italicized for you, and you still assert that I said something I didn't. I don't believe you when you say you're interested in what I think. You have done nothing to indicate that you do. You only read what you want to read, even when it's not even there. Your intent is to get me to put up, or shut up, and my question to you is who the hell are you to imply I should put up or shut up. You have no business dictating how the discussion will go around here, so don't go levying disguised ultimatums.

The irony is that I am putting's just not your fancy, or flavor. I might as well be writing in invisible ink.

10/22/2007 04:37:00 PM  
Blogger surrender said...


"Consciousness...meaning, don't be conscious, because the more conscious you are the greater the pain.....focused light will burn a gaping hole straight through your heart"


My computer seems to be dying so I don't know when I'll be here again, but soon.

From one Human Being to another, even if I don't know you.. you are me....I am you....

I love you very much and thank you.

10/22/2007 04:40:00 PM  
Blogger wwwdotnet said...

Shrub -

Also, please tell Dot that there's nothing more loathesome than a witless, humorless druggy.

Druggy. you sound like that old generation that mixes all their outlawed substances into one thing. I am far from a "druggy". you haven't the slightest clue on me shrub, so don't pretend. I don't care for what you personally think of me, but why do you you try so hard to discredit me on this blog? I was away quite a while from here, and as soon as I come back, your jeers start up. What do you even do all day beside attention seek, virtually? Give me a lucid explanation of your position with me. I'm tired of your cryptic bull.

Your intent is to get me to put up, or shut up, and my question to you is who the hell are you to imply I should put up or shut up.

look in the mirror.

At the end of the day Shrub, this is Jeff's blog, you comment below his writing, as do we all. Stop with the elite positioning of yourself, you use this like a teenage chatroom. I hate even commenting back on your stabs, it's a waste of this

10/22/2007 06:56:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

10/22/2007 07:07:00 PM  
Blogger Sounder said...

Thanks curiosityshop, you’re writing often leaves me with a...comfortable feeling. OK, then don't call it bad, -call it negative morphic resonance entanglement.

IC, I would suggest that it is not about questioning motivations or accusing others of disinformation tactics, rather it's about using ones discrimination to see that some people are negative nellies,
(that tend to inhibit substantive discussions.) Also I think it likely there are many quality people out in blogland that take a pass on posting here because of our somewhat hard edge.

10/22/2007 08:26:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi 1D posted a commented at my blogbook

Thanks for your interest but just to clarify on your question about 2012 -- and related issues. My take is very radical. On Mayan culture and shamanism I recommend the book by Martin Prechtel "Secrets of the Talking Jaguar." I also recommend Ptolemy Tompkin's book on Mayan culture. Ptolemy is the son of New Age guru Peter Tompkins, author of the Secret Life of Plants. Ptolemy's autobiography with details on his dad is also a fascinating read.

Anyway taking into account those two books on Mayan culture (and yes I've been to Tulum and Uxmal) -- my take is that first of all traditional Mayan culture was based in the villages -- that's where the real shamans were. The pyramid priests were part of an imperial city-state system that was corrupted.

The village shamans rely on all of reality being GENDERED or based on "complimentary opposites" -- this is the focus on my blogbook.

Now Jose Arguelles uses scalars, just like the fractals of Dan Winter. The subject of my blogbook is detailing why fractals and scalars and ALL OF WESTERN SCIENCE relies on symmetry -- not complimentary opposites or asymmetry.

So again my blogbook is very radical. Now the Mayan Priests were afraid of the number zero because it is the link to this system of natural resonance through complimentary opposites.

Certainly there was a transition from the corrupt calendar priests and the real village shamans -- for example the book "Secrets of the Soil" details how Mayan farmers still use little pyramids as paramagnetic energy tools on their fields.

Nevertheless the source of natural healing energy is FEMALE -- based on complimentary opposites using nonwestern music.

Similar in the early Empire of the West the Gods were considered to be "listeners" and Apollo caused plague because he killed the female Serpent goddess. Healers relied on a lineage of chorus singers and true "bishops" of the early Church had power of the Holy Spirit because they were SILENT. Later Bishops became the calendar keepers who fought to establish the centrality of the Solar calendar (based on SYMMETRIC NUMBER).

The number 2012 is decoded by understanding asymmetric complimentary opposites. So the number "One" is male and "two" is female while "zero" represents the Formless Awareness (also female but reflected in physical reality as the number two).

In Vedic philosophy this natural resonance is represented by Kala as Time (linear) with Kali as the Female goddess as formless awareness -- beyond destruction. Even Brahman worships Kali -- just as the mayans were afraid of zero.

So God (from the Indo-European word BULL which is the same meaning as Brahman) means "I Am that I Am" and is the same as 2012.

The I-thought (or the Alpha as the upside down Bull's Head -- the letter "A" -- as the Golden Ratio, a continuous fraction of 1) is repeated over and over as self-enquiry. The source of the I-thought is listened to and resonates as asymmetric harmonics -- the natural overtones -- back to formless awareness (that "that" or zero).

The resonance occurs through AM or OHM with the Tetrad or Tai-Chi symbol (the female Snake): 1:2:3:4. 2:3 is Yang -- the circle of fifths overtones in western harmonics -- but really a spiral of asymmetric fifths in nonwestern tuning.

So the music intervals C to G is 2:3 but resonates into 3:4 as Yin or G to C. This asymmetric resonance violates the commutative principle since C x G does not equal G to C -- this commutative principle is the foundation of all of Western science (including the scalars of Arguelles and the fractals of Dan Winter).

Chapter 4 of my blogbook is the gritty details on this music-math-gematria analysis. I sent it to math professor Joe Mazur and he wrote that it was "very important" information that he wanted published in the most read math journal in the world. He also asked me to add my personal comments -- so of course it wasn't published! haha.

I have several articles online that are easier to read -- the "yan xin secret" links to two other articles at

Now for the Cosmic Mother connection -- the quantum chaos cosmology states that mass squared is inversely proportional to energy frequency distance. This chart, detailed in the physics book "Supersymmetry" by Gordon Kane, professor at Michigan, is really just an extension of the Pythagorean Tetrad (details in my blogbook).

To understand the source of dark energy that connects gravity and quantum mechanics science must rely on QUANTUM TUNNELLING which is really just the same asymmetric "spontaneous symmetry breaking" found in natural resonance overtones.

Only in science "quantum tunnelling" has to occur after the fact -- because the math is dependent on a geometric containment of the physical conditions. This is NOT the case in natural resonance so that anyone can immediately access the quantum tunnelling formless awareness which created the whole universe.

10/22/2007 08:39:00 PM  
Blogger ericswan said...

Surrender. It has occured to me that you do not have the wherewithall to "surf" the net and when I posted a link to CAWST, I assumed that you would eventually find this link..

This is life saving for you and yours and I am nominating you to carry the message up the mountain.

I.C. and Mark..The above link is for your benefit as well.

Movie Girl..I was touched by your words. Interestingly enough, Shrub's comeback about "panties" resonates with me as well but only in the juxaposition with Drew's "orgasm at a distance".

I have to admit that I have been resonating with mankind in a most peculiar way. I found myself sharing rat meat around a camp fire in one of those conscious dream states and other disturbing mind control features that come with those chemtrails. You seem to think that global resonance is possible and that we should move as many people as we can to a higher consciousness. I think chemtrails and HAARP and some of Drew's characters in the netherworld of Mind Control, are already at the gate, the portal is dark and there is no light at the end of that tunnel. All the spirits are in the waiting room and there is much discontent.

WWW belliosto and Mr. Druid. Jeff's blog has evolved as have the posters here to a niche all of it's own design. No doubt, the universe is unfolding as it should.

Shrub Richard Muddy Elephant and all you lurkers out there..There is that grain of truth in all that you read and write. Discernment is not that important. I make a "conscious" decision to take the long way home too.

10/22/2007 08:43:00 PM  
Blogger Sounder said...


Are you looking for those grains of truth? If so, how do you expect to find them without developing better discernment? If not, this here is only more terrortainment.

By the by, I take the long way home also.

10/22/2007 09:25:00 PM  
Blogger Sounder said...

eric ,I was just over at your blogsite and read the Gwenn Dyer article.

It makes me want to ammend that 'Take the long way home' comment. I think we best get (the fuck) home quick as we can.

10/22/2007 09:41:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Druggy. you sound like that old generation that mixes all their outlawed substances into one thing. I am far from a "druggy". you haven't the slightest clue on me shrub, so don't pretend.

Okay, so maybe you're not a druggy. And, for the record, I have nothing against casual drug use, anymore than casual alchohol use, so long as someone doesn't define themselves by it. When they do, then they're a druggy. I'm willing to take it back if the shoe doesn't fit....but if it doesn't fit, you shouldn't try to wear it. Let me explain. You haven't posted much to this blog, but in the little bit that you have posted, you have told us about the shrooms you've done and the brand of weed you've smoked. Of all the things you could have posted in such a short period of time, you included that. So, it prompted me to conclude that is how you want to define yourself, otherwise why lead with it? For example, I explained earlier that I visited with our Dominican friends this past weekend. I didn't mention that we drank lots of wine and the kind of wine we drank. The only reason I do now is to make a point.

I don't care for what you personally think of me, but why do you you try so hard to discredit me on this blog?

That's shouldn't care what I think of you. I respect you for that....but don't fuckin tell me what you think of me, then, okay then, Mate? Do we have a deal?

Go back and look at how this all got started. I posed a satirical question to you. It was a gentle, friendly rib, and you respond by assassinating my character. I didn't draw the did, and now you say you don't want to share Character Assessments. If you don't want a gun fight, then don't draw your gun...cuz I sure as hell ain't gonna let you pop in the forehead without a fight. For the record, I really don't like gun fights, and I wasn't looking for one with you.

What do you even do all day beside attention seek, virtually?

For someone who claimed not too long ago that he wasn't internet and blog savvy, you sure have gotten religion fast, haven't you? This is a time-honored tactic on the Boards, Dot. It's really not becoming and it's quite transparent. You learned it from your parents, didn't you? We all did....but some of us have recognized it and eschewed it because it's not a valid criticism. We all seek attention, Dot. Get deep for a second. Most everyone, besides the Sociopaths, postinh here are seeking attention because seeking attention is seeking validation and acknowledgment. See, I took what you portrayed as something negative and painted it as something positive. For someone who considers themselves a critical thinker with an open mind, you have gone out of your way to be unnecessarily negative and dismissive.

look in the mirror.

You know what, Dot, I concede that I have as much propensity to hypocrisy as anyone else here, including yourself, but not on this one. I didn't tell you to put up or shut up. I didn't try to steer you. I joked with you and you attacked my character. So, in this case, your mirror example doesn't apply, but it may apply in other cases.

At the end of the day Shrub

I can't tell you how much I hate that phrase. I hear it every God Damned day in Corporate America and I absolutely despise it. It's a Conformist, Euphemistic, Lazy-ass Term. It doesn't surprise me, though. You have chosen to go along with the crowd on this one, so perhaps that's just what you do. I don't blame you (or maybe I do), it's the easy way. Power in numbers , and all that.

this is Jeff's blog, you comment below his writing, as do we all.

Well, that was my point to IC, so why couldn't you just agree with it, which you obviously do. Instead, you bizarrely use my point in an attempt to admonish me. Weird and illogical, that.

For the record, any Holistic Solution would have to mitigate this ownership mentality that Western Civilization maintains. You have shown here that you are a Centurion for that mentality by conferring ownership of this Blog to Jeff. Do you really think Jeff owns this Blog? It's a sick thought, if you ask me. Just as the Indians thought it was abominable for the Europeans to think they could own the land, so to is it sick to think that someone could own the body of thought that comprises this blog.

Stop with the elite positioning of yourself, you use this like a teenage chatroom.

This statement is just so egregiously wrong in all the ways I described in the paragraphs above. Do you see where you contradict yourself two ways. Either you agree with me that this blog is a free flow, open-ended discussion where other posters have no business telling others what and how to discuss, or you don't. Here you're telling me how to conduct myself by telling me to refrain from how you describe me conducting myself. Authoritarian much? Learning well from your Masters?

Also, how can I be both an Elite Positioner and yet a vacuous teenage chatroom junky? Huh?

I hate even commenting back on your stabs, it's a waste of this webspace.

But yet you did....and you started the whole thing and then tried to look the good guy in it all. How typical and obvious. You want my have to respect me in return.

10/22/2007 09:46:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Little Red Riding Hood

10/22/2007 09:57:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

From one Human Being to another, even if I don't know you.. you are me....I am you....

I love you very much and thank you.

Awe Shucks, Surrender. I love you very much, as well, and that means a lot coming from ol Shrub. You are indeed a special person to love the shrub like that. You're one of the few that maybe understands me...if that's possible. I have a shirt that says "I yell because I care." It's Right On.

10/22/2007 10:03:00 PM  

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